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If you're wondering about dual core....

I was a little iffy with getting a single core phone until I saw this. Kind of cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5OGlCDskA0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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I am the first to admit I know very little about this stuff, but IMO this comparison is crap! He's showing the advantage of 4G LTE, not the processor ... downloading apps and loading webpages/videos has more to do with the connectivity then the processor. He should have run quadrant or linpack, then I bet the dual core would have had the advantage.
Again, just my opinion ... and I am not a tech wiz by any means

YankInDaSouth said:
I am the first to admit I know very little about this stuff, but IMO this comparison is crap! He's showing the advantage of 4G LTE, not the processor ... downloading apps and loading webpages/videos has more to do with the connectivity then the processor. He should have run quadrant or linpack, then I bet the dual core would have had the advantage.
Again, just my opinion ... and I am not a tech wiz by any means
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A valid argument, but benchmarks are for the most part illegitimate. Having the synergy of components from the same manufacturer are more beneficial in real world usage.
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I would like to see a comparison of the same apps running side by side...
We all know that Wifi vs LTE vs HSPA+ vs EVDO Rev A can/will impact downloads/uploads.
Single Core vs Dual Core is about "local" or "on device" performance. i.e. Once the data or App is ON THE DEVICE...
While talking about Single Core vs Dual Core on Android devices, a question comes to my mind.... (My mind is a little fuzzy, because I thought I saw this talked about before, but I can't find where..)
What version of Android added support for Dual Core chips? This article -> http://www.slashgear.com/gingerbrea...-in-april-for-dual-core-app-support-07131280/ would make me believe that Android 2.2.x doesn't support dual core... (so it would be kind of like Windows initially, where the OS didn't natively support the additional cores, so while having them "helped" a little, you didn't completely see that impact until windows was updated).
Does the same hold true with the Dual Core Android phones that ship with Froyo (like the Droid X2, Atrix, etc.)? i.e. their OS doesn't fully support the dual core, so until they get an OS that does, their not going to see as much of a performance boost?

YankInDaSouth said:
He's showing the advantage of 4G LTE, not the processor ... downloading apps and loading webpages/videos has more to do with the connectivity then the processor.
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+1
If both phones were on the same LTE network or wifi, they would perform similarly
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KidJoe said:
What version of Android added support for Dual Core chips? This article -> http://www.slashgear.com/gingerbrea...-in-april-for-dual-core-app-support-07131280/ would make me believe that Android 2.2.x doesn't support dual core... (so it would be kind of like Windows initially, where the OS didn't natively support the additional cores, so while having them "helped" a little, you didn't completely see that impact until windows was updated).
Does the same hold true with the Dual Core Android phones that ship with Froyo (like the Droid X2, Atrix, etc.)? i.e. their OS doesn't fully support the dual core, so until they get an OS that does, their not going to see as much of a performance boost?
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Good question!

[Q] Dual-core necessary?

Are there really that many things out there that can take advantage of a dual-core cpu? It seems to me that a decent cpu/gpu can go really far, but idk.

I'd imagine it'd be similar to a desktop. It will initially help with general smoothness of the user experience. Eventually apps will catch up with the hardware and be multithreaded.
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i can see the use for dual core phones
but quad core or penta core phones is simply too much

AllGamer said:
i can see the use for dual core phones
but quad core or penta core phones is simply too much
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More cores = better efficiency = longer battery life. It's not all about performance.

On any os aside from android, no.

Currently no. Seeing as software has yet to catch up to hardware, and really never has in this technological era. >.>
So with such info, one can make the statement to say the latest hardware is never needed, atleast in its time. Sooo... lets all throw away our core i7's, 1080p displays, Radeon HD 6990, and go back to the good ol' pentium 4 with integrated Intel graphics.

the new android os (ice cream sandwich) is supposed to support dual-core processors. If this does end up happening, it won't be long till there are apps such that do make use of the dual-core as well.

smooth azz budda
sent from planet atrix

Yea! Try web browsing on a dual core. You'll never go back.
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All depends on the software taking advantage of dual-core or not.
Similar scenario happened on desktop PC few years ago, and dual core cpu performed worse than similar clocked single core cpus when running non-optimized software. Took a period of time for the software to take up.

No Dual Core Cpu support yet ?

Still can't find any indication that IceCreamSandwich (Android 4.0) supports dual core cpu
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-4.0-highlights.html
We all know that any kernel already supports smp so it should't take so long for Google to make android OS support it too...
If you find anywhere a clue for that please reply

it should support.
but, this is the wrong section to post this question. The Nexus S isn't dual core. You may get better answers in Android General Questions

You won't find anything about it because dual core support has sort of been there since before 1.0, and really since before android. Linux has been multithreaded pretty much from the beginning, it isn't' something google needs to add to android, its all there. The huge performance boost we'll see with ICS will be from hardware acceleration in the UI, not some magical unicorn dual core support.
The reason all these dual core phones aren't living up to the hype is because the software the OEMs made for them really sucks, its not google or android's fault.

As far as I know IceCream Sandwich DOES support Dual Core CPU's.

imneo1 said:
Still can't find any indication that IceCreamSandwich (Android 4.0) supports dual core cpu
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Maybe the fact that EVERY SINGLE Honeycomb tablet uses a dual core processor is proof enough...

063_XOBX said:
Maybe the fact that EVERY SINGLE Honeycomb tablet uses a dual core processor is proof enough...
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Just because Android runs on such device does not automatically means that is uses both cpus(cores) for each process. for that to apply we should see threads of an app processes.
so my question remains...

Orangestrat said:
You won't find anything about it because dual core support has sort of been there since before 1.0, and really since before android. Linux has been multithreaded pretty much from the beginning, it isn't' something google needs to add to android, its all there. The huge performance boost we'll see with ICS will be from hardware acceleration in the UI, not some magical unicorn dual core support.
The reason all these dual core phones aren't living up to the hype is because the software the OEMs made for them really sucks, its not google or android's fault.
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you said the same thing i said ... well, almost ...
I said that Linux support dual core (smp) but there is much more to that.
we should see that the VM actually uses the Linux(Kernel) support managing to provide a correct data to the kernel, so that the process will be threaded (run on both cores)
Can you (or anyone owning a dual core device) provide a proof for that ?
Can we see a process of an app runs on both cores ? (a screenshot from shell showing that it uses both cpus/cores)
also, you should read about SGS2 for example.
even though it has a dual core CPU Android only uses on core to run itself (VM) and apps
so the answer is not that simple as you pointed
and my question remains...

ICS actually supports multi-core cpu's, not just dual. Meaning it supports up to either 4 or 8 cores (I can't remember which)
Add edit: When there are more cores in phones, multiple cores will be used to run (like you said) the apps AND the system. Quad-core phones are supposed to be coming out this summer.

063_XOBX said:
Maybe the fact that EVERY SINGLE Honeycomb tablet uses a dual core processor is proof enough...
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That's funny, considering we're running Android 4.0.3 on our SINGLE-CORE phones. And add the fact that there's a small mod that will change it to the tablet interface, and you've got proof that you dont need 2 cores.
Just because multi-core devices are now standard doesn't mean that ICS 4.0 requires 2 cores. Our phone alone is proof. It's not a different version of Android. ICS on a tablet is the same ICS as on a phone, in a nutshell. That was the whole point of ICS in the first place -- to unify phones and tablets into 1 OS.

Android PC Possible?

Hey everyone, I am new to this site and the whole Android Development thing altogether.
I have been researching and pondering an idea of mine for some time now and I have yet to find any answers. I have been looking at an old laptop of mine that I basically just use for movies/surfing as it is pretty outdated (Gateway MX-6959: 1.66GHz CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel Integrated Graphics) but it is fine for older games and emulators. I also have an HTC Amaze 4G Android Phone that has similar Specs (1.5GHx CPU, 1GB RAM, Adreno 220 Graphics).
This question I have is would it be possible to build a small custom case to house the needed hardware and a simple cooling system and use the hardware from any run-of-the-mill Android Smartphone I might be able to get my hands on (1GHz+ CPu, 512MB-1GB RAM, Adreno or similar GPU...which I will root/overclock) to build a Micro PC that runs Android 4.0 and can run emulators (GBA, PS1, etc) as well as Android HD Games like Modern Combat 3, N.O.V.A., etc.
Is it possible to do this? If not, what are the constraints to the project? What all would it entail?
Any information/advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

See no reason why not. Infact there are already quite a few mini pcs on the market running android and thevlikes of raspberry pi are getting android ports
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zacthespack said:
See no reason why not. Infact there are already quite a few mini pcs on the market running android and thevlikes of raspberry pi are getting android ports
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Yes Android PC, or Ubuntu mobile...

I know things like Raspberry Pi and Via APC are around, but they have extremely limited capability from what I have read...not to mention a weak 600MHz processor. I want to essentially build a mini gaming Android PC. Something closer to a ~1.5GHz CPU with Adreno or equivalent graphics on board.
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jsekits said:
I know things like Raspberry Pi and Via APC are around, but they have extremely limited capability from what I have read...not to mention a weak 600MHz processor. I want to essentially build a mini gaming Android PC. Something closer to a ~1.5GHz CPU with Adreno or equivalent graphics on board.
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Doing a bit more research, I have found something called ODROID-X. IT it using a Samsung Exynos 4412 Cortex A9 Quad Core Processor (1.4GHz), 1GB RAM, and Mali-400 graphics. These seem very similar to my Amaze 4G...maybe even a bit better. Does anyone know if this unit can be overclocked? If so, how far can it be pushed and still be stable? As I stated, I want to design it in a custom case that I can rig a small scale cooling unit to in order to keep the OC'ed CPU stable.
I only really want to take on the project if it will be able to handle the higher-end Android games/emulators. Modern Combat 2-3, N.O.V.A. 1-2-3, PS1 emulator, etc.
Sorry for all of the questions by the way, I am still VERY NEW to the whole custom hardware/software scene and I just want to make sure I do everything the correct way.

I don't know if it would help but I think you might be able to run an x86 android build on your laptop.

haro138 said:
I don't know if it would help but I think you might be able to run an x86 android build on your laptop.
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I could, true...and still may at some point since I have 3 at my disposal. But, I just like the idea of making something new...and I want to learn more about the hardware as well.

a LiveCD for Android running on x86 platforms
You can also use the disc image in a virtualization application like VirtualBox, VMWare or Microsoft Virtual PC if you want to try the operating system without even rebooting your computer. :cyclops:
http://code.google.com/p/live-android/

haker307 said:
a LiveCD for Android running on x86 platforms
You can also use the disc image in a virtualization application like VirtualBox, VMWare or Microsoft Virtual PC if you want to try the operating system without even rebooting your computer. :cyclops:
I might look into that for other things, but that defeats the purpose of what I am trying to do. I want to BUILD a system. I'm leaning towards the ODROID-X Platform, but I need to figure out developing a custom case than I can mount a couple fans to since I plan to overclock as high as the Samsung Sxynos 1.4GHz Quad Core and MAli-400 graphics can be taken and remain stable. I also need to figure out what type of power supply I would need to use since the ODROID-X uses 5V / 2A, I don't know how I would need to set it up to plus into a wall outlet.
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Get a big enough tablet, attach a keyboard, and you have an Android PC.
But seriously, Android is based on a linux kernel, I think ubuntu would be like an android pc.

baddaman54 said:
But seriously, Android is based on a linux kernel, I think ubuntu would be like an android pc.
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Ubuntu is nothing like android. It's a full-fledged computer OS; compared to it, android is just a toy.
For that matter, I'm not sure why you'd prefer android for a computer, but whatever floats your boat.

you won´t be able to run N.o.v.a 3 or any of those games on a androidx86 image, because those games are compiled for arm not x86.
Just buy an Ouya.

When I say PC, I think I messed up, I simple meant a system in a box, plugged into the wall lol. The hardware is ARM, the OS on ODROID-X is 4.0ICS. It's a venture to play Android HD games/websurf with a controller or keyboard and mouse via Bluetooth on an HDTV.
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[Q] 64 Bit Processor?

so i saw that the apple a7 chip is actually just a snapdragon 800 processor just like our nexus 5, does that mean the nexus 5 kernel does support 64bit?

Toxina said:
so i saw that the apple a7 chip is actually just a snapdragon 800 processor just like our nexus 5, does that mean the nexus 5 kernel does support 64bit?
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No, it doesnt. The entire system has to be optimised for 64-bit and not only the chip.

gee2012 said:
No, it doesnt. The entire system has to be optimised for 64-bit and not only the chip.
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Android wouldn't really need to be optimized for 64-bit like the iPhone 5s because Android uses a virtual machine (Dalvik) to run apps, whereas iOS runs applications natively so those applications would need to be optimized for 64-bit.
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android1234567 said:
Android wouldn't really need to be optimized for 64-bit like the iPhone 5s because Android uses a virtual machine (Dalvik) to run apps, whereas iOS runs applications natively so those applications would need to be optimized for 64-bit.
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Thanks. learned something.

Toxina said:
so i saw that the apple a7 chip is actually just a snapdragon 800 processor just like our nexus 5, does that mean the nexus 5 kernel does support 64bit?
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just FYI , right now 64bit on iOS is a gimmick , notice i said " right now" ... dont you find it odd Apple never mention specs ? didnt tell us what the CPU speed was , how much ram... but all of a sudden , they tell us its 64bit architecture? hmm

android1234567 said:
Android wouldn't really need to be optimized for 64-bit like the iPhone 5s because Android uses a virtual machine (Dalvik) to run apps, whereas iOS runs applications natively so those applications would need to be optimized for 64-bit.
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Incorrect. Much,much, MUCH, of android is native code (even the dalvik interpreter), which is dominated by ARMv7 architecture at the moment. With the transition to 64 bit ARM (AArch64 mode on the ARMv8 processor), the kernel, drivers, bionic libc library, libgralloc (graphics), and countless other libraries need to be ported to 64 bit. This involves 64 bit compilers becoming release quality, and code reviews to ensure that pointer casts are handled appropriately for the transition to a larger address map.
However, there is nothing inherently better about '64 bit' and the Snapdragon 800 chip is a monster.

adma84 said:
Incorrect. Much,much, MUCH, of android is native code, which is currently ARMv7. With the transition to 64 bit ARM (AArch64 mode on the ARMv8 processor), the kernel, drivers, bionic libc library, libgralloc (graphics), and countless other libraries need to be ported to 64 bit. This involves 64 bit compilers becoming release quality, and code reviews to ensure that pointer casts are handled appropriately for the transition to a larger address map.
However, there is nothing inherently better about '64 bit' and the Snapdragon 800 chip is a monster.
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Learn something new every day But the apps themselves on Android wouldn't need to be re-written for 64-bit like they do on the iPhone 5S, right?
Back to Apple's A7 chip, I think Apple did this to get a head start on 64-bit development; I doubt the iPhone 5S has 3.5GB+ of RAM so 64-bit doesn't seem practical for the 5S.

android1234567 said:
Learn something new every day But the apps themselves on Android wouldn't need to be re-written for 64-bit like they do on the iPhone 5S, right?
Back to Apple's A7 chip, I think Apple did this to get a head start on 64-bit development; I doubt the iPhone 5S has 3.5GB+ of RAM so 64-bit doesn't seem practical for the 5S.
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Yes and No. Some Apps (most Games) run native code the would have to be rewitten in 64bit.
I think it has been confirmed that the 5S has 1GB of Ram.

64-bit is meh.. its going to take time for it to mature. Its still in its infant stages and will take time... but eventually down the road, it'll become the standard. For now, I don't think its that much of a thing to look at when buying a phone.

zephiK said:
64-bit is meh.. its going to take time for it to mature. Its still in its infant stages and will take time... but eventually down the road, it'll become the standard. For now, I don't think its that much of a thing to look at when buying a phone.
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Yep. In fact, the best thing about 64 bit is the ability to see a 4GB+ memory space. ARMv8 does a nice job of cleaning up the instruction set (I spend my days writing ARMv8 right now), but I expect power to be an issue even at the cost of possible speed improvements due to doubling neon/VFP registers and other such improvements

adma84 said:
Yep. In fact, the best thing about 64 bit is the ability to see a 4GB+ memory space. ARMv8 does a nice job of cleaning up the instruction set (I spend my days writing ARMv8 right now), but I expect power to be an issue even at the cost of possible speed improvements due to doubling neon/VFP registers and other such improvements
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This...
If the addressable mem space (RAM) goes unutilized, the cleaner instruction set remains the only pro. For now, gimmick.... Down the line, standard.
booooom

A7 is not by any means close to a Snapdragon, completely different designs. But similar performance though.
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