Database Info

Captivate and 4G

Was reading in another thread (which was closed while I was writing a reply) that some people here might be confused around what 4G is and whether or not their Cappy can be upgraded to it.
First, the simple answer:
Your Cappy cannot be upgraded to 4G. Now or ever. It is possible that it could be upgraded to HSPA+ with the right software. But that is not 4G. 4G is a different radio access protocol running at different frequencies.
The longer answer:
The source of all this confusion is T-Mobile's marketing department who claim their HSPA+ network is 4G. 4G is not HSPA+ or anything like it. It is 3.5G. Much like GPRS and EDGE were 2.5G. LTE (the real 4G) is far superior to HSPA+ for several reasons regardless of the bandwidth claims. Mainly 4G will not suffer nearly as much from congestion like 3G HSPA / HSPA+. It is that same 3G congestion that motivated AT&T to turn off HSUPA on our phones. It's because AT&T's 3G network (UMTS, HSPA, and HSPA+) is already heavily congested in many markets.
Only posting this so people don't think they can get true 4G on their Cappy. It won't happen.

AT&T is also marketing their 4G service as HSPA+, with LTE technology entering their network late 2011.

bptba93 said:
AT&T is also marketing their 4G service as HSPA+, with LTE technology entering their network late 2011.
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Yes, they've started down that path as well. Just don't expect 4G speeds on any of these "4G" devices unless you're the only smartphone user for miles. I truly wonder what AT&T and eventually T-Mobile will call their LTE networks. 4G 2.0?

From AT&T:
Not all 4G networks are created equal. AT&T is the only carrier that will offer two layers of network technology delivering 4G speeds – HSPA+ and LTE.*
Why does that matter?
When combined with enhanced backhaul, our HSPA+ software upgrade is expected to deliver speeds up to 4x faster than ordinary mobile broadband. And we'll be evolving to even higher speeds with the planned initial launch of our LTE network in mid-2011. When you're traveling on our networks, you'll enjoy faster speeds and a smoother, more consistent mobile broadband experience overall.
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So is HSPA+ just a software upgrade with no hardware enhancements in the cellphones or towers?
I do understand the reasoning behind AT&T doing HSPA+ before LTE as it offers reasonably fast speeds in areas where LTE has not matured. If it is indeed only software based, I wouldn't mind seeing an increase from HSPA 7.2Mbps to pseudo "4G" HSPA+ 21Mbps (although these speeds are "up to") on the captivate. Will HSPA+ be up to 21Mbps right out of the gate?
My brother uses epic 4G on Sprint, and in areas of no 4G wimax, his 3G speeds are abysmal... Has sprint stopped upgrading their 3G and is only concentrating on the expansion of 4G?
According to that, AT&T's HSPA+ will end up faster than Sprint's 4G (3-6Mbps on average and up to 10Mbps) unless they pick up the pace.
For LTE (5-12Mbps) according to Verizon.
So is 4G labeling the technology once fully matured (Up to 100Mbps for both LTE and Wimax) or current speed being delivered? Because Sprint and Verizon do advertise their current technologies as being "4G speeds" which AT&T can defeat if their HSPA+ (56Mbps matured) is 21Mbps out of the gate.
The way I see it is that 4G speeds have never existed and should never have been advertised (started by Sprint), but the technology to get there is currently in the building phase.
First post, so I can't back up the speed claims with links directly to Sprint and Verizon 4G speed pages lol
And please correct me if I'm wrong on anything... I'm here to learn.

4G isn't that far away I think AT&T is playing it safe with the 4G in the future thing. I have a couple friends that install att towers and phone lines they have been crazy busy establishing the 4G network in the major cities in know for a fact that most of Dallas and Ft. Worth will be 4G ready this spring as for outlying areas that will take some time. But if you live in a big city area expect your LTE right off the bat
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

LTE is not 4G it still falls under the 3G umbrella along with WIMAX. 4G technologies can do 100M down.

Hydro360 said:
4G isn't that far away I think AT&T is playing it safe with the 4G in the future thing. I have a couple friends that install att towers and phone lines they have been crazy busy establishing the 4G network in the major cities in know for a fact that most of Dallas and Ft. Worth will be 4G ready this spring as for outlying areas that will take some time. But if you live in a big city area expect your LTE right off the bat
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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It better be here, it's their home

Does anybody else remember this?
http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com...works-provides-teliasonera-with-advanced-radi
Just thought this could help a bit.

I just need to clarify one more point in addition to OP's post:
Even though HSPA+ is merely a software upgrade in the carrier side (towers), so far it is not the case with phones. So far there is no phone out there that can be software upgraded to take advantage of HSPA+'s higher speed. T-Mo has to release Galaxy S 4G phone to get 4G support. HSPA+ towers offer backward compatibility with current 3G phones but it doesn't mean you will get higher speed by default (much like 11n routers supports 11G and 11B clients but only 11n client can reach the max bandwidth).
And no, HSDPA + HSUPA does not equal to HSPA+.

groves226 said:
LTE is not 4G it still falls under the 3G umbrella along with WIMAX. 4G technologies can do 100M down.
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Only according to a few people within the ITU. 4G is LTE (and for a few sorry sorry suckers, it is WiMAX). Or at least that is how everyone in the industry sees it (outside of T-Mobile USA and now AT&T and a bunch of confused customers).
As far as speeds are concerned, we should treat Mbps throughput ratings with a grain of salt. Those are ideal world, no contention data rates which when taken out of the lab are purely theoretical. HSPA+ is an upgrade. LTE is a whole new set of radio access, backhaul and core technologies.

My friend has a "4G" LTE phone from Verizon and he got 4 or 5 mbps while I got over 5 on HSPA.

[Q] Question about bands/3.5G

1) How can I tell if my phone is running on a 3.5G network? I am on T-Mobile in Virginia Beach, VA.
2) I know there are different bands out there for different carriers, so can I change to a band that can get me better 3G coverage? I have slooooow 3G coverage where I am right now.
Any help in the right direction would be awesome, and don't be afraid to dumb it down for me. I am getting pretty savvy on all this phone stuff, but bands still elude me.

Hi
until recently, 3.5G was known as HSPA7.2. If your device shows "H", then your device can use the HSPA (real) speeds.
If so, and your browsing is slow, then this is mainly due to saturation and low signal strength, but exists more factors.
To use another bands, you must change the service provider (and change your device). No manually way to do it.
Best regards

iusauser said:
Hi
until recently, 3.5G was known as HSPA7.2. If your device shows "H", then your device can use the HSPA (real) speeds.
If so, and your browsing is slow, then this is mainly due to saturation and low signal strength, but exists more factors.
To use another bands, you must change the service provider (and change your device). No manually way to do it.
Best regards
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I recently visited Jacksonville Florida where my CM7 Rom showed me I was running on 4g. When I came back home to Virginia Beach it is showing me a H. Stock rom shows me as 4g but CM7 still shows me as H (HSPA). Is this truly telling me that I am operating on 3.5G network here in Virginia Beach?

Hspda = HSPA+?

Or is that different?
I am reaching 400kb/s is hspa+ faster?
sent from planet snarf

its pretty much the same thing wtih different speeds. as far as you're concerned, it's the same thing when it comes to what your phone tells you (as long as you're provisioned for 4g with att). chances are the market that you're in (if it's a city or outside a major city) will have 4g (HSPA+), but it may or may not have the backhaul to support higher speeds. backhaul is pretty much just fiber optic cables to the towers in your areas that allow your upload and download rates to get to "4g speeds".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_Packet_Access

3G - UMTS
3.5G - HSDPA/HSDup (sometimes referred to as HSUPA)
4G - HSPA+
3 different networks, providing different speeds. However, I think that even when connected to HSPA+ you will only see download increases, you will still be using HSDup.

will umts show up as H+ still in the upper ICON?

No - UMTS should show 3G. However different ROMs will display different icons when connected to differnet networks. Don't rely on the icon. You can check which network you're connected to by going to settings - about phone - network (or status) and see what network you're actually connected to
Except in stock roms or roms built from the stock rom where the chef hasn't changed the icon. Stock roms will show H+ when connected to umts. Marketing ploy. F you, ATT

homeslice976 said:
3G - UMTS
3.5G - HSDPA/HSDup (sometimes referred to as HSUPA)
4G - HSPA+
3 different networks, providing different speeds. However, I think that even when connected to HSPA+ you will only see download increases, you will still be using HSDup.
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HSPA+ is NOT 4g. LTE is 4g, even though it technically isn't. HSPA+ is jsut a software upgrade to HSPA. the only reason they needed to do the backhaul upgrades were to be able to handle the increased bandwidth.

Does the UK HTC one S support 4G ??

Everything every where are going 4g Soon.
I know the US version gets very high speeds.
Will i need a new phone?

the US HTC One S says 4G but its just DC HSPA+ which seems to work in India (Vodafone) its not 4g but we can say partial 4g the hspa+ signal is doubled to get double speed 42Mbps if am not wrong ..cheers bro .
And Like here 4G LTE (100mbps) is launched if it is launched in UK too , you will need new phone . NO 4g LTE phone has been launched yet in India . But they are giving Wifi routers

ah pants, wish id known before buying

Realistically I don't think it matters. NOBODY actually gets anywhere close to 100 Mbps on any LTE connection. They'd be lucky to get 30. In that sense if we can hit those speeds on DC-HSPA+ then who cares about LTE?

so can i get the new 4g in the uk or not? Im now confused?

Hopefully yes, use this phone only dnt sell it
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda app-developers app

aditya. said:
Hopefully yes, use this phone only dnt sell it
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda app-developers app
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So keep it and see i guess?
Only i would of sold it before there is a mass of htc one s phones on the market that are not capable.

I read that the lte frequency in the UK is 1800mhz and the one s supports 1800mhz band

LTE is 4G. One S does not and cannot ever support LTE, and it's not a matter of frequencies.
One S does support DC-HSPA which gives a theoretical down link @ 42 Mbps.
Many many carriers around the world has DC-HSPA, Three in Sweden has it for example, though I haven't managed a better speedtest.net result than 19 Mbps myself on it... Best TMOUS speedtest.net I recall seeing here was ~25Mbps I think.
None of the 4 swedish carriers with LTE networks promise more than 80 Mbps, though the rules for calling something 4G originally stated it should provide 1Gbit to stationary users and 100 Mbps to mobile users.
T-mobile in USA calls DC-HSPA 4G for marketing reasons but it is still a 3G UMTS technology. Still plenty fast enough for anything on a phone IM:angel:

sorry im still confused...............
In plain terms for a idiot...
Do i need a new phone to take advantage of 4G as the mobile companies would have me believe

To take advantage of what some carriers like TMobile US would have you believe is 4G you don't need a new phone. If Three UK is anything like 3 Sweden then they have a nice 3G network which can pass for 4G in America.
To take advantage of LTE which is even faster you need a new phone.
You could download hrrm stream I mean say 9 HD episodes of say Top Gear and thus fill your entire sdcard on the One S in 120 minutes on a decent 3G connection though so I'd say LTE isn't really needed.

does 4G have a more reliable connection than 3G as sometimes i find 3G drops on the One S

In the UK, 4g is only available from EE (Orange/TMobile) and only in very few places and yes you need a new phone, also deep pockets because it is expensive.

After tweeting EE, they said the phone wasn't compatible with their 4G network.
Sent from my HTC One S+

Yes - anyone wanting true 4G (LTE) will not be able to do so with any HTC One S.
It is worth noting, however, that anywhere you can get LTE you will almost certainly get HSPA+ (which is supported by One S). For most, that will mean speeds over 2Mb/s and up to 7Mb/s and cost significantly less than LTE. With EE currently not being very generous with their download limits (or coverage), why not stick with 3G until the market gets a bit more competitive? That will fit in nicely for when you are probably due a shiny new phone...

[Q] HSPA+(HSUPA) on other than T-mobile?

I thought I can connect my 4GS onto the other UMTS network, but its max was HSDPA:9 (HSDPA:8 in JB).
Other phone such as Photon Q didn't have problem in connecting with HSPA+:15
Do I have to manually enable something? I believe this phone's potential is better than this

My carrier is using 2100MHz band, and my baseband ROM is a new one.
Is this info relevant : ?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1914122 [ Enable North American UMTS/HSPA bands (3G data on AT&T)]

palmwangja said:
My carrier is using 2100MHz band, and my baseband ROM is a new one.
Is this info relevant : ?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1914122 [ Enable North American UMTS/HSPA bands (3G data on AT&T)]
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If your carrier is using the 2100MHz frequency, this phone should have no problem using HSPA+ with it. When I travel to China, I use a China Unicom SIM in my MT4GS which enables my phone to use their 2100MHz HSPA+ network without any problem. Back at home in US, I use T-Mobile SIM.

Fuzi0719 said:
If your carrier is using the 2100MHz frequency, this phone should have no problem using HSPA+ with it. When I travel to China, I use a China Unicom SIM in my MT4GS which enables my phone to use their 2100MHz HSPA+ network without any problem. Back at home in US, I use T-Mobile SIM.
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Thanks, I don't know what causes this...
So, you are seeing H+ (HSPAP:15) right? All I can see with various ROMs are only 3G and H....

Do speed tests, symbols don't always mean what they say after all
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium

just tested: only around 3Mbps whereas other hspa+ phone got 9Mbps...
Is there any hidden menu to tick this on?

palmwangja said:
Thanks, I don't know what causes this...
So, you are seeing H+ (HSPAP:15) right? All I can see with various ROMs are only 3G and H....
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Click to collapse
The stock ROMs are configured by HTC/T-Mobile to display 4G when it has a HSPA+ connection. Other ROMs, however, will display 3G or H (depending on the ROM) for HSPA+. So, if you see 3G, H, or 4G, they are all HSPA+ connections. This phone operates data in the G (GPRS), E (2G or EDGE), and 4G/3G/H (HSPA+) modes. Depending on the carrier, it can perform up to 14Mbps HSPA+ but of course, you would rarely see that fast in the real world. It does not operate at the 21+ or 42+ levels of HSPA+.
I'm on a stock-based ROM (Miktouch), when I'm home on T-Mobile, I see 4G. Also, when I'm in China and connected to China Unicom, I see 4G.

I've never seen "H" on this phone, it always shown 3G or 4G (using stock ROM, just de-junked and rooted by myself)
IIRC speed test results, I had best down speed exceeding 14+Mbps on Wind in Vancouver and Toronto areas, but in US it almost always was 3G only (but then I was usually outside any large cities).

Fuzi0719 said:
The stock ROMs are configured by HTC/T-Mobile to display 4G when it has a HSPA+ connection. Other ROMs, however, will display 3G or H (depending on the ROM) for HSPA+. So, if you see 3G, H, or 4G, they are all HSPA+ connections. This phone operates data in the G (GPRS), E (2G or EDGE), and 4G/3G/H (HSPA+) modes. Depending on the carrier, it can perform up to 14Mbps HSPA+ but of course, you would rarely see that fast in the real world. It does not operate at the 21+ or 42+ levels of HSPA+.
I'm on a stock-based ROM (Miktouch), when I'm home on T-Mobile, I see 4G. Also, when I'm in China and connected to China Unicom, I see 4G.
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Thanks for the input, if you are using non-stock rom, still would you let me know what the following says in the most normal case:
setting - phone - status - mobile network type.
In my case, it's HSDPA:9, which seems obviously non-HSPA. Other phone shows HSPA+:15 or HSPAP:15.
Am I missing something, or HSDPA:9 can be also considered as a decent HSPA+ ?
I'm kinda downshifting toward MT4GS recently as I love its small form factor, but somewhat at a loss due to this limitation, thanks.