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T mobile UK data confusion.

I have had a Hermes / Vario 2 on Tmobile for a few years, and moved to a touch pro in the last month.
Prevously I used to see a G symbol and a 3G symbol about 60% and 40% of the time respectively. I had spoken to TM and my account was HSDPA enabled even back then.
Now I see a G or an H about 80%/20%. I am on W&W and have been assured that HSDPA is enabled. I never see 3G.
Incidentally, i get about 30 kbits/s on G and 380 on H.
Has 3G been completely superseeded by H even though the coverage seems not to be as good?

Yes. Simple answer.
HSDPA cooks 3G.
Clue:
Wikipidia: HSDPA or UMTS

T-Mobile UK's 3G network is now 100% HSDPA. so yeah, you shouldn't see the 3G symbol unless you are on a call, and every other time, it should be the H.

rhedgehog said:
T-Mobile UK's 3G network is now 100% HSDPA. so yeah, you shouldn't see the 3G symbol unless you are on a call, and every other time, it should be the H.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the raph if you have HSUPA (upstream) enabled then the network will always be in HSPA mode. It should switch back and forth between 3G and H only if you are only using HSDPA (downstream) since the raph would behave just as the hermes would when using the data connection.

Not entirely sure on that, cos i don't have HSUPA enabled and i only ever see the 3G icon when i am downloading and on a call, so that both can continue.
My Athena worked in exactly the same way. H all the time while in 3G coverage, but dropped down to 3G when downloading and on a call so that both could continue.
Of course, I'm no network engineer so i could be wrong with the technical bits, but this is certainly how i have experienced T-Mobile wherever i have been down here on the south coast.
And t-mobile certainly did say a while ago that they were updating their entire 3G network to HSDPA back in late 2006/early 2007!!

HSDPA/HSUPA? So confused...

Inspire 4G = "4G"... so what's this "H+" icon?
It represents HSDPA, which is just an enhanced 3G, I'm assuming... so where's the "4G" icon, and why don't I have it?
Also, what is "HSPA"? My connection is showing as HSPA+ >.>.

H stands for HSDPA. H+ stands for HSPA+ which is what the USA carriers are "pretending" is 4G. its really fake 4G. HTC obviously feels otherwise, and named it properly as "H+" which is what it is.
its all HSDPA anyway so it dont matter. LTE is the proper 4G and it will be here later this year...but inspire wont work with it.

RogerPodacter said:
H stands for HSDPA. H+ stands for HSPA+ which is what the USA carriers are "pretending" is 4G. its really fake 4G. HTC obviously feels otherwise, and named it properly as "H+" which is what it is.
its all HSDPA anyway so it dont matter. LTE is the proper 4G and it will be here later this year...but inspire wont work with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LTE isn't 4G either.
Both hspa+ and LTE have similar speeds, with LTE slightly higher. The difference between Verizon and ATT is that Verizon phones will fall back onto evdo when not in an LTE area, which is slow as hell. ATT customers will fall back onto hspa+, which is still pretty fast.

all stock inspires are HSPA LOCKED!
lame of course.
Fully modify your android, you can start by my thread
has links on how to root etc.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1061258
once HSPA is unlocked i get upwards of 4.3mb some get more.
HSPA = "3.5G" diff not 4 G LTE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_Packet_Access
AT&T will eventually be super fast! i mean 4.3 is good
i am in orlando FL hspa is storng here full bars always H

Hspda = HSPA+?

Or is that different?
I am reaching 400kb/s is hspa+ faster?
sent from planet snarf

its pretty much the same thing wtih different speeds. as far as you're concerned, it's the same thing when it comes to what your phone tells you (as long as you're provisioned for 4g with att). chances are the market that you're in (if it's a city or outside a major city) will have 4g (HSPA+), but it may or may not have the backhaul to support higher speeds. backhaul is pretty much just fiber optic cables to the towers in your areas that allow your upload and download rates to get to "4g speeds".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_Packet_Access

3G - UMTS
3.5G - HSDPA/HSDup (sometimes referred to as HSUPA)
4G - HSPA+
3 different networks, providing different speeds. However, I think that even when connected to HSPA+ you will only see download increases, you will still be using HSDup.

will umts show up as H+ still in the upper ICON?

No - UMTS should show 3G. However different ROMs will display different icons when connected to differnet networks. Don't rely on the icon. You can check which network you're connected to by going to settings - about phone - network (or status) and see what network you're actually connected to
Except in stock roms or roms built from the stock rom where the chef hasn't changed the icon. Stock roms will show H+ when connected to umts. Marketing ploy. F you, ATT

homeslice976 said:
3G - UMTS
3.5G - HSDPA/HSDup (sometimes referred to as HSUPA)
4G - HSPA+
3 different networks, providing different speeds. However, I think that even when connected to HSPA+ you will only see download increases, you will still be using HSDup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HSPA+ is NOT 4g. LTE is 4g, even though it technically isn't. HSPA+ is jsut a software upgrade to HSPA. the only reason they needed to do the backhaul upgrades were to be able to handle the increased bandwidth.

Is 3G faster then 4G?

My fastest tests I took with Infuse were on UMTS network, ranging between 6000 and 6500 kbps. I beleive it's a 3G, right?
Immediately following it from 1000 kbps to 6000 kbps were HSDPA tests (I assume those are "4g"?)
I took about 30+ test in different times, different networks. But top 9 speeds by download were on UMTS network following by HSDPA network.
What gives? If this is a current state of affairs, then I'd rather just lock to 3G and save battery.

artisticcheese said:
My fastest tests I took with Infuse were on UMTS network, ranging between 6000 and 6500 kbps. I beleive it's a 3G, right?
Immediately following it from 1000 kbps to 6000 kbps were HSDPA tests (I assume those are "4g"?)
I took about 30+ test in different times, different networks. But top 9 speeds by download were on UMTS network following by HSDPA network.
What gives? If this is a current state of affairs, then I'd rather just lock to 3G and save battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lo should have been forced to hpsa+ when you enter data no matter what. All the tests were on 3g just some happened to be faster. By the way our 4g is not 4g only lte is. Its a gimmick lol. And one thing suprising is regular 3g and this Plus stuff is the same stuff just having more bandwith for it to go faster.Uses no more battery.

Ryanscool said:
Lo should have been forced to hpsa+ when you enter data no matter what. All the tests were on 3g just some happened to be faster. By the way our 4g is not 4g only lte is. Its a gimmick lol. And one thing suprising is regular 3g and this Plus stuff is the same stuff just having more bandwith for it to go faster.Uses no more battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, this is consistent. There are way too many tests to consider this an accident. See results below. Umts is faster then HSDPA on 30+ tests I run so far. As you see in locations they are all different, also different parts of the day as well. Sample is too big to consider this an accendal observation.
"2011-08-13 07:00","Umts","33.00701","-96.89448",6412,1119,133,"Dallas, TX","10.183.179.99","32.150.131.141"
"2011-12-07 06:00","Umts","33.00760","-96.89575",6344,715,160,"Dallas, TX","10.41.103.105","166.205.9.197"
"2011-08-21 08:21","Umts","33.01306","-96.88703",6254,1035,140,"Dallas, TX","10.79.102.172","166.205.9.42"
"2011-08-12 13:49","Umts","33.00822","-96.89473",6239,1099,144,"Dallas, TX","10.150.100.141, 10.68.90.161","166.205.10.75"
"2011-08-12 13:52","Umts","33.00822","-96.89473",6164,1113,156,"Dallas, TX","10.93.66.121","166.205.10.75"
"2011-11-20 11:52","Hsdpa","32.99510","-96.88730",6077,730,68,"Fort Worth, TX","10.137.181.9","32.170.23.132"
"2011-11-19 11:18","Umts","33.00369","-96.88326",6028,1096,121,"Dallas, TX","10.131.241.205","32.168.238.98"
"2011-08-25 21:58","Umts","32.80980","-96.79930",5927,718,131,"Dallas, TX","10.131.153.86","166.205.8.68"
"2011-12-06 18:23","Hsdpa","33.00626","-96.88055",5906,1116,72,"Fort Worth, TX","10.58.242.16","32.145.53.131"
"2011-08-12 13:53","Umts","33.00822","-96.89473",5904,1074,154,"Dallas, TX","10.93.66.121","32.169.236.85"
"2011-08-12 15:03","Umts","33.00822","-96.89473",5886,1114,187,"Dallas, TX","10.93.3.118","166.189.112.8"
"2011-12-07 05:59","Hsdpa","33.00760","-96.89575",5864,724,137,"Dallas, TX","10.41.103.105","166.205.9.197"
"2011-12-06 18:16","Umts","33.00626","-96.88055",5643,732,124,"Dallas, TX","10.139.124.118","166.132.114.251"
"2011-08-12 13:44","Umts","33.00822","-96.89473",5530,1108,180,"Dallas, TX","10.68.90.161","166.205.10.75"
"2011-11-09 18:48","Umts","33.02570","-96.84037",5518,1065,172,"Dallas, TX","10.148.88.227","32.168.172.122"
"2011-10-02 08:52","Hsdpa","38.00000","-97.00000",5499,1131,71,"Oklahoma City, OK","10.77.146.107","32.170.196.78"
"2011-10-09 08:08","Umts","33.00628","-96.88251",5410,750,79,"Dallas, TX","10.137.89.60","166.132.199.183"
"2011-11-19 11:17","Hsdpa","33.01678","-96.88595",5408,903,68,"Fort Worth, TX","10.131.241.205","32.168.238.98"
"2011-09-03 15:58","Umts","33.06708","-96.89039",5398,740,86,"Dallas, TX","10.187.175.76","32.147.197.82"
"2011-12-06 18:19","Umts","33.00626","-96.88055",5388,1113,96,"Dallas, TX","10.58.242.16","32.145.53.131"
"2011-12-06 18:24","Umts","33.00626","-96.88055",5338,1108,70,"Dallas, TX","10.58.242.16","32.145.53.131"
"2011-08-23 18:25","Hsdpa","33.00810","-96.89472",5324,734,170,"Dallas, TX","10.17.250.78","166.205.9.55"
"2011-11-19 07:17","Hsdpa","33.00730","-96.89504",5242,732,127,"Dallas, TX","10.136.91.31","32.170.144.102"
"2011-09-05 09:04","Umts","38.00000","-97.00000",5232,1035,96,"Dallas, TX","10.102.94.83","32.150.105.130"
"2011-11-16 15:38","Umts","33.08185","-96.80335",5075,525,72,"Dallas, TX","10.149.253.134","166.188.180.124"
"2011-08-12 13:44","Umts","33.00822","-96.89473",5011,1088,161,"Dallas, TX","10.68.90.161","166.205.10.75"
"2011-08-20 16:02","Hsdpa","33.06562","-96.88689",4995,1102,169,"Dallas, TX","10.180.189.199","32.149.4.51"
"2011-08-13 06:59","Umts","33.00701","-96.89448",4985,739,148,"Dallas, TX","10.183.179.99","32.150.131.141"
"2011-11-16 16:03","Hsdpa","33.01648","-96.88608",4970,734,112,"Dallas, TX","10.55.212.71","32.151.10.169"
"2011-12-06 18:33","Umts","33.00626","-96.88055",4762,744,132,"Temple, TX","10.58.242.16","32.145.53.131"
"2011-12-06 18:15","Umts","33.00626","-96.88055",4679,739,137,"Fort Worth, TX","10.139.124.118","166.132.114.251"
"2011-09-06 08:59","Umts","37.38759","-121.97641",4533,685,136,"San Jose, CA","10.81.14.82","32.152.209.250"
"2011-10-21 14:52","Hsdpa","33.05276","-96.83213",4527,1047,88,"Temple, TX","10.138.35.120","166.132.31.49"
"2011-09-09 11:58","Hsdpa","37.39436","-121.97611",4508,987,112,"San Jose, CA","10.13.71.200","166.135.240.102"
"2011-08-31 17:18","Hsdpa","33.01180","-96.85744",4396,1089,155,"Dallas, TX","10.77.6.244","166.188.171.5"
"2011-11-20 08:04","Hsdpa","33.02268","-96.91396",4279,851,52,"Dallas, TX","10.137.181.9","32.170.23.132"
"2011-11-11 07:55","Hsdpa","38.00000","-97.00000",4229,294,72,"Fort Worth, TX","10.91.220.96","166.133.227.92"
"2011-11-11 08:02","Umts","33.08182","-96.80333",4225,745,65,"Fort Worth, TX","10.91.220.96","166.133.227.92"
"2011-09-08 01:17","Hsdpa","37.39514","-121.98374",4166,1099,142,"San Jose, CA","10.3.58.10","166.190.179.60"
"2011-08-19 15:18","Hsdpa","33.01901","-96.88339",4023,333,383,"Dallas, TX","10.184.183.207","32.149.250.36"
"2011-08-26 12:44","Hsdpa","33.02371","-96.88564",3974,1018,157,"Dallas, TX","10.79.97.170","32.145.218.19"
"2011-09-08 01:43","Hsdpa","37.39514","-121.98374",3945,1095,118,"San Jose, CA","10.3.58.10","166.190.179.60"
"2011-08-28 15:43","Hsdpa","33.01301","-96.88740",3791,644,196,"Dallas, TX","10.139.66.108","166.132.130.18"
"2011-11-16 15:46","Hsdpa","33.02505","-96.87194",3629,1055,157,"Dallas, TX","10.182.131.213","32.149.162.218"
"2011-10-04 07:08","Hsdpa","32.99733","-96.92118",3580,54,120,"Overland Park, KS","10.77.168.169","32.170.130.238"

artisticcheese said:
My fastest tests I took with Infuse were on UMTS network, ranging between 6000 and 6500 kbps. I beleive it's a 3G, right?
Immediately following it from 1000 kbps to 6000 kbps were HSDPA tests (I assume those are "4g"?)
I took about 30+ test in different times, different networks. But top 9 speeds by download were on UMTS network following by HSDPA network.
What gives? If this is a current state of affairs, then I'd rather just lock to 3G and save battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, some clarifications. I'm guessing you're just talking about how it was displayed in your app, but HSPA and HSPA+ are both UMTS based networks, so 3G and HSPA+ "4G" are both UMTS. The difference in this current implementation of 3G and "4G" is that 3G is HSPA which maxes out at 14 Mbps downstream, whereas "4G" HSPA+ maxes out at 84 Mbps downstream. It's the same technology, just basically a software update.
Now, most HSPA 3G phones don't support 14 Mbps downstream. I think most max out at 7.2 Mbps. Most HSPA+ 4G phones max out at 21 Mbps, or some even support 42 Mbps, however, being that AT&T's network is 16QAM, their network's max speed is 14 Mbps. So really, HSPA 3G is entirely capable of going as fast as HSPA+ 4G on AT&T's current network, assuming you have a phone with a fast enough chip in it.
As for the results you posted, I'm not really sure what to say. You said your UMTS tests gave you 6000-6500 Kbps, but then HSDPA tests gave you 1000-6000 Kbps. What's confusing is that whatever app you are using is posting random labels on the network which are all technically correct, but only confusing people. 6000 Kbps is very definitely HSDPA. In it's first release, HSDPA was sometimes called 3.5G, whereas UMTS without HSDPA would have been base 3G. The second release of HSDPA is where we go to HSPA+ and "4G", increasing speeds to 42 Mbps.
If all of this is very confusing, then I apologize, but I'm not really surprised. This is why they apply names like 3G and 4G to it when it's far more complex. If you really want to learn more about the network technology, check out the wiki page for HSPA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed_Packet_Access
And yes, as previously mentioned and as you may have gathered from what I posted, HSPA 3G and HSPA+ 4G are the exact same technology, just updated a little, so the battery effect is negligible. LTE 4G will bring an entirely new radio, on top of having an HSPA or HSPA+ radio in it as well, so that's where you get more battery drain. For now, HSPA+ 4G devices won't drain any more battery than HSPA 3G devices.

AJerman said:
Okay, some clarifications. I'm guessing you're just talking about how it was displayed in your app, but HSPA and HSPA+ are both UMTS based networks, so 3G and HSPA+ "4G" are both UMTS. The difference in this current implementation of 3G and "4G" is that 3G is HSPA which maxes out at 14 Mbps downstream, whereas "4G" HSPA+ maxes out at 84 Mbps downstream. It's the same technology, just basically a software update.
Now, most HSPA 3G phones don't support 14 Mbps downstream. I think most max out at 7.2 Mbps. Most HSPA+ 4G phones max out at 21 Mbps, or some even support 42 Mbps, however, being that AT&T's network is 16QAM, their network's max speed is 14 Mbps. So really, HSPA 3G is entirely capable of going as fast as HSPA+ 4G on AT&T's current network, assuming you have a phone with a fast enough chip in it.
As for the results you posted, I'm not really sure what to say. You said your UMTS tests gave you 6000-6500 Kbps, but then HSDPA tests gave you 1000-6000 Kbps. What's confusing is that whatever app you are using is posting random labels on the network which are all technically correct, but only confusing people. 6000 Kbps is very definitely HSDPA. In it's first release, HSDPA was sometimes called 3.5G, whereas UMTS without HSDPA would have been base 3G. The second release of HSDPA is where we go to HSPA+ and "4G", increasing speeds to 42 Mbps.
If all of this is very confusing, then I apologize, but I'm not really surprised. This is why they apply names like 3G and 4G to it when it's far more complex. If you really want to learn more about the network technology, check out the wiki page for HSPA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed_Packet_Access
And yes, as previously mentioned and as you may have gathered from what I posted, HSPA 3G and HSPA+ 4G are the exact same technology, just updated a little, so the battery effect is negligible. LTE 4G will bring an entirely new radio, on top of having an HSPA or HSPA+ radio in it as well, so that's where you get more battery drain. For now, HSPA+ 4G devices won't drain any more battery than HSPA 3G devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Boom! Better explanation than me lol. Sorry for my post not being long enough, i am at school. I was trying to get to what he said.

[Q] HSPA+(HSUPA) on other than T-mobile?

I thought I can connect my 4GS onto the other UMTS network, but its max was HSDPA:9 (HSDPA:8 in JB).
Other phone such as Photon Q didn't have problem in connecting with HSPA+:15
Do I have to manually enable something? I believe this phone's potential is better than this

My carrier is using 2100MHz band, and my baseband ROM is a new one.
Is this info relevant : ?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1914122 [ Enable North American UMTS/HSPA bands (3G data on AT&T)]

palmwangja said:
My carrier is using 2100MHz band, and my baseband ROM is a new one.
Is this info relevant : ?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1914122 [ Enable North American UMTS/HSPA bands (3G data on AT&T)]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If your carrier is using the 2100MHz frequency, this phone should have no problem using HSPA+ with it. When I travel to China, I use a China Unicom SIM in my MT4GS which enables my phone to use their 2100MHz HSPA+ network without any problem. Back at home in US, I use T-Mobile SIM.

Fuzi0719 said:
If your carrier is using the 2100MHz frequency, this phone should have no problem using HSPA+ with it. When I travel to China, I use a China Unicom SIM in my MT4GS which enables my phone to use their 2100MHz HSPA+ network without any problem. Back at home in US, I use T-Mobile SIM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I don't know what causes this...
So, you are seeing H+ (HSPAP:15) right? All I can see with various ROMs are only 3G and H....

Do speed tests, symbols don't always mean what they say after all
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium

just tested: only around 3Mbps whereas other hspa+ phone got 9Mbps...
Is there any hidden menu to tick this on?

palmwangja said:
Thanks, I don't know what causes this...
So, you are seeing H+ (HSPAP:15) right? All I can see with various ROMs are only 3G and H....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The stock ROMs are configured by HTC/T-Mobile to display 4G when it has a HSPA+ connection. Other ROMs, however, will display 3G or H (depending on the ROM) for HSPA+. So, if you see 3G, H, or 4G, they are all HSPA+ connections. This phone operates data in the G (GPRS), E (2G or EDGE), and 4G/3G/H (HSPA+) modes. Depending on the carrier, it can perform up to 14Mbps HSPA+ but of course, you would rarely see that fast in the real world. It does not operate at the 21+ or 42+ levels of HSPA+.
I'm on a stock-based ROM (Miktouch), when I'm home on T-Mobile, I see 4G. Also, when I'm in China and connected to China Unicom, I see 4G.

I've never seen "H" on this phone, it always shown 3G or 4G (using stock ROM, just de-junked and rooted by myself)
IIRC speed test results, I had best down speed exceeding 14+Mbps on Wind in Vancouver and Toronto areas, but in US it almost always was 3G only (but then I was usually outside any large cities).

Fuzi0719 said:
The stock ROMs are configured by HTC/T-Mobile to display 4G when it has a HSPA+ connection. Other ROMs, however, will display 3G or H (depending on the ROM) for HSPA+. So, if you see 3G, H, or 4G, they are all HSPA+ connections. This phone operates data in the G (GPRS), E (2G or EDGE), and 4G/3G/H (HSPA+) modes. Depending on the carrier, it can perform up to 14Mbps HSPA+ but of course, you would rarely see that fast in the real world. It does not operate at the 21+ or 42+ levels of HSPA+.
I'm on a stock-based ROM (Miktouch), when I'm home on T-Mobile, I see 4G. Also, when I'm in China and connected to China Unicom, I see 4G.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input, if you are using non-stock rom, still would you let me know what the following says in the most normal case:
setting - phone - status - mobile network type.
In my case, it's HSDPA:9, which seems obviously non-HSPA. Other phone shows HSPA+:15 or HSPAP:15.
Am I missing something, or HSDPA:9 can be also considered as a decent HSPA+ ?
I'm kinda downshifting toward MT4GS recently as I love its small form factor, but somewhat at a loss due to this limitation, thanks.