Related
New Users and folks New to Android:
First let me say, "Been there. Still working on it!" But on to some practical suggestions and comments:
1. If you are new to all this, don't try to move too fast. Read these forums and you will find many messages saying "I don't know what I am doing, but I just finished doing it all and my tablet looks dead! Help?!" If you are new to all this, read these forums for a good while and make sure you understand before you leap. Definition: A "good while" is not minutes to an an hours -- how about a day for experienced Android people and a bunch more for the rest of us.
2. Learn the factory setup first. I can understand some of the early adopters moving too fast because the early gtabs had a mess for software and some of it worked really poorly. But whatever you buy now should flash to OTA (Over the Air Update) 3389 fairly quickly, and it is usable. You can use it to find out where all the settings, bells and whistles are to get what you want done.
3. Go a step at a time. When building computers or working with software, it is always better to work with and prove something before introducing complications. If you are burning a ROM (say CWM -- ClockWorkMod -- for example), don't just install it and move on. When you get it installed, learn it and test the functions and see what is there to be used -- before moving on. If it's not working right or you don't undestand it, don't move ahead -- look for answers or fixes.
4. Read the manual. Learn what you can from the paper and online manuals. There is a Vega site -- I have a thread posted in "Development Forum" which tells where the manual for the Vega tablet it and it does a fair job of introducing the Vegan ROM look and stock features. Viewsonic's G-Tablet site also has this kind of info. And the devs here have put together countless FAQs, guidelines, etc........
5. When things don't go right, take a breath and don't panic. I have had G-tabs for over a month now and I don't honestly know of any that were totally bricked. (I know many have been given up on and sold or returned or ???). I would say that by now most all the iterations of G-Tab failures that can happened have turned up in these Forums. Search and find answers. Ask questions about what you don't understand about the fixes. Then fix it.
6. REMEMBER WHAT THIS PLACE IS!!!! I have read any number of folks who have come here, messed up their tablet and then gotten angry with someone (or all of us) here about it. Remember that this is a place where private individuals are developing alternatives that are on the bleeding edge and sometimes even beyond!! If you are using anything except stock here, you have to assume the risk that all of us assume in trying to do something neat!
Don't fuss. Ask for help.
This post probably has been too long. But I have been developing hardware and software (not Android) since 1979 and I know a bunch about making mistakes!!! Also about preventing mistakes.
I hope the principles I suggest above will help you keep it together and accomplish something great!
Rev
Have you been spying on me?
This describes my situation exactly and I appreciate your input and advice.
I've never used Android, don't even own a smart phone. I'm in the situation of not knowing what I don't know, if that makes sense.
I managed to accidentally add some icons to the home screen and it took me a day and a half to figure out how to remove them.
I've been hesitant to try to make any changes but I realized that I've only been using the tablet to play Angry Birds and do some light surfing. The gtab has so much potential and I have barely scratched the surface.
I will be taking the plunge this weekend with some of the mods that are available, but as you've suggested I need to keep reading. Lots of reading.
Thanks again for the tips,
Neudle
Another thing I would emphasize is when doing something like flashing recovery or loading a new ROM make sure you follow all the instructions. I've had more than one friend come to me asking for help with their phone because they skipped a few steps when flashing a ROM ("Oh, well that didn't seem important so I didn't do it"). I can so far say that with my Nexus One and my Gtab I have never had an issue when I followed the exact steps for flashing/installing.
Also, if something does go wrong, don't go into full out panic, quite often there is a way to recover and a bit of searching or asking nicely for help will have you back up and running. Don't forget, backups are your friend. Before doing anything substantial I always back up my apps and data with Titanium Backup then boot into recovery and do a Nandroid backup.
Different people move at different speeds.
I am brand new to android, brand new to tablets.
Have had this a week.
Days 1-3 "yea ok this 3389 update works"
DAYS 4-5 "LOVE this peformance pack and fixed market"
DAY 6 "lets try vegan 5.1" followed by "I bricked it into a boot loop and none of the fixes worked. Can i take it back" followed by "nv flash is AWESOME, i can recover my gtab from ANY screw up!!!!!
DAY 7 VEGAN 5.1 INSTALLED (and invented my own modified way of flashing/recovery that is not exactly the same as the totorial why identifying which of the steps CANT BE skipped/Altered (WHAT i refer to as the "7-10"))
DAY 8 WHY wont vegan 5.1 acknowledge my new micro sdcard i bought today and do i need to format this or something?
By the way feel free to answer my day 8 issue before i start a new thread.
#8 MicroSd Card
The GTab calls internal storage sdcard and any microsd/microsdhc cards you install sdcard2. Look in your file directory under /sdcard2 or /mnt/sdcard2 and you will see your microsd card. You don't need to format the card first.
Hello everyone. I want to thank you all for this site, I have learned a great deal here and appreciate all your efforts. I have a question that many new comers have asked and they have been told to go read, so thats what I will do. I want you to know tho that its very hard when you have a baby, and very little time. I also want you to know that the only times I am really productive getting somewhere with my phone is staying up till like 4 am because everyone is asleep and I have the time needed to dedicate to all this reading, trying and learning.
I am not complaining, in fact I am grateful because I am getting somewhere thanks to your help, which has been more valuable than all the help Samsung and Rogers have given me washing their hands clean and leaving me with a defective phone. My problem has not been solved just yet, but I think a 2.2.1 rom will fix my problem. Ill keep reading and trying, ill get there.
I suggest you guys have a wikipage with a table with all the roms, what versions of android they are, what kernels, modems, etc they work with ( or not work with ), bugs, features, something all in 1 page for easy access. This would make it easier for people to access information. The easier it is the more people will use them and come here, the more ideas you will have, the more testers, its a win win situation!
I have been to the pages for all the roms, some of them tell you the bluetooh voice dialing is not working, most don't, id have to go looking for my answer. I have learned that for instance it seems people do not have an issue with it with froyo 2.2.1 but again, some roms tell you in the main page its 2.2.1, others don't.
I can't grasp all the information staying up at night till 4 am. Its the only time I have. I almost had a heat attack when I thought I bricked my phone, I can't afford another one. If all the important information is right there on 1 page, like links to the usb drivers, tools, roms, kernels, everything. Have the instructions to flash. Have a table with all the roms, their versions, what versions of kernels, modems, etc, they do ( or dont ) work with. maybe even some of the table cells are clickable, for instance bugs, click on it and a window pops up with a list of them.
I know all this information is in here somewhere. Thanks to everyone for it, but it needs to be on 1 page. Please make it easier for people who are new to this. You will benefit as well as them. Looking forward to being able to use voice dialing. I think it will be working by tomorrow or after tomorrow thanks to you guys. I could have done it in a day if all the information was right there .
Thanks for reading.
Try searching.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S/SGH-I897
I have that bookmarked. It is also a sticky in this section.
But it doesn't say for instance which ones are 2.2.1, or which ones have the terrible voice dialing over bluetooth..
I do search and end up with over 15 tabs...
I am getting by, I am just saying it could be organized better for everyones benefit. It could be made so someone who has never done this before can get it done in a couple of hours if even, without keeping asking you the same questions here. I understand why people keep asking to recommend a ROM. It is not they they do not search, not all of them anyway. Things can be better organized.
I hear what you're saying, I think it's just that within the course of a month, about 20 ROM's have been released, if not more. And no one has had time to update the wiki.
vunuts said:
I hear what you're saying, I think it's just that within the course of a month, about 20 ROM's have been released, if not more. And no one has had time to update the wiki.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
The thing is that its not just the number of ROMs, but also the number of versions that are released. It would be a real pain and an added overhead for anyone maintaining it.
Also note that most devs are working too, and doing this in their free time. The little time they have to spare is taken up for making improvements. But they do release changelogs to look into.
If anyone has time, I would suggest they take it up to create a wiki and maintain it, rather than relying or asking the devs to do it.
Try capfaq.com it has a ROM table section, and I've used it alot.
Same issues with being 100% up to date, but it's the best Rom table format I've seen.
i897 running Cognition 3.02
Madtowndave said:
Try capfaq.com it has a ROM table section, and I've used it alot.
Same issues with being 100% up to date, but it's the best Rom table format I've seen.
i897 running Cognition 3.02
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.capfaq.com/w/ROM_Table
Looks like they have updated it!
Thanks guys, I will check that table out tomorrow.
It'd be nice if there was a modem chart as well. I know there are modems in the modem thread
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=835272
...but near as I can tell it's not up to date, or at least the first page is not up to date (ie base Cognition runs on JL1 and Andromeda on JL2, but aren't on the first page).
If anyone knows a good and current modem reference guide, please let me know.
I can't complain too much because obviously things change all the time and it's a PITA to constantly update info...I'd volunteer but I got a 2 year old and baby 2.0 due in April.
Madtowndave said:
baby 2.0 due in April
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
made me lol at the versioning of baby
diablo009 said:
made me lol at the versioning of baby
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Click to collapse
Yeah it's like Richter Scale difference at least 0 to 1, and 1 to 2 kids...people that have more than 2 are either really bad at birth control, Catholic, or gluttons for punishment.
distortionist said:
I want you to know tho that its very hard when you have a baby, and very little time. I also want you to know that the only times I am really productive getting somewhere with my phone is staying up till like 4 am because everyone is asleep and I have the time needed to dedicate to all this reading, trying and learning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I thought I was the only one!
Thanks pal for making my day...
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
I bricked my phone
distortionist said:
I bricked my phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How? What happened?
I have no Idea what I did wrong, my goal before I started was getting voice dial over bluetooth working for me, its essential to me. It started with trying to install paragon, as per http://www.capfaq.com/w/ROM_Table mentioned above.
I was stock rogers 2.2 so I wiped it clean, and tried the update thing, it didnt work. The only step I skipped was flash to stock and the master clear since it was 2.2 recently and I did the factory wipe. It did not work but I did not brick anything just yet. I figured most people tell you to flash with the one click odin which puts stock at&t on it. I did that and the phone stopped going into download and recovery, it did not stop completely i have gone into download and recovery a few times after that but it was a battle with my phone, since it was booting, I used adt instead which worked like a charm. at&t rom was not happy on my phone, it was going into at&t reboot loops where it would just reboot the bios over and over. after trying and trying it would boot android, i was trying to fix it but each time it restarted the reboot loop would kick off. I could not go to recovery or download mode till i finally got back into the OS and used adt to tell it to go to download mode where i reflashed my stock rogers.
My phone now had at&t logo on boot before rogers, which is not that bad but i had read you can get rid of it, i tried going into download mode with the buttons but didnt try too hard, adt was easier.
I was following these instructions :
http://www.mmacleod.ca/blog/2011/01/removing-the-att-boot-screen-from-a-samsung-captivate/
it wanted me to use odin to flash a file. I used my oden 1.3, i think he says oden 1.0, I didn't think it would make a difference.
Odin started to flash and said fail. I got the screen with "android ! computer", I have been there before when I first ever tried using odin and had to fight with my phone to get to download mode at the time ( this was before at&t ever came close to the phone, i never used odin before so i probably had trouble because of inexperience ).
anyway, this time no matter what I do I cannot go to download mode, I plan on making a jig today if i find someone who sells resistors in this little town.
any help would be appreciated. I dont want to put any more roms on my phone, i just want it to work. I am worried. Ill wait till samsung releases 2.2.1 I just want my phone back to the way it was when I bought it
As the person who write most of the documentation for Team Komin (the developers who make Andromeda), I would say this would be an immense pain. copying all of our information from the website, formatting it into wiki form and then posting it would be very time consuming.
nbs11 said:
As the person who write most of the documentation for Team Komin (the developers who make Andromeda), I would say this would be an immense pain. copying all of our information from the website, formatting it into wiki form and then posting it would be very time consuming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but once done, it would be much easier to maintain and navigate. There is going to be a lot of crossposting and people asking for insight and advice.
I'm sure we all understand the search feature in the forum, but to be honest things change topic within a thread, and where someone asks a question that is somewhat unrelated and gets a very good answer, it is not always apparent by poking through page after page of posts to find that nugget of gold. I mean, searching for 'kernel' will give literally thousands of hits. A wiki would be much better in terms of 1. Where you are starting out from 2. what you need to do what you want 3. where to find these things, and 4. maintaining updates and version revisions.
I really appreciate all the work people do here, and I have had to find everything I wanted to know the 'hard' way, but as Android grows in popularity and market percentage, more and more people are going to come here looking for this information. Pobably better to do it sooner than later.
I just read a post by roebeet (well known dev who put together the TNT Lite ROMS) and something he said made enough sense to me that I thing everyone needs to hear it.
If you are going to flash and try everything you find on this site -- you run a real risk have having problems. Everything you flash adds, changes and deletes stuff from your tablet and some of that gets carried over from ROM to ROM to program.
Just because you partition/erase/delete/overwrite does not mean your tablet content is destroyed. There are a bunch of partitions on your tablet (12?) and some are preserved and some are modified depending on what you do.
So am I saying "Don't mod you G-Tablet" or "Don't try out new stuff." NO.
1. Make real sure you know what you are doing. Too many people just rush ahead and wind up with real problems.
2. Read directions and read all the posts about others who have done the same thing you want to do.
3. When you are making changes, do them one at a time and make sure it's working right before moving on. When you change a bunch of stuff it's hard to tell what the problem/problems is and where it came from.
4. IMHO, too many people see the modding as a game and then they get mad at the dev or people who are trying to help them -- when all the time it was their own fault!
I think it would even be a good idea if someone knowledgeable could help us see if we could put together a flash which would actually delete/erase what's on a
troubled tab so it could be rebuilt. Sorry, but I don't talk enough Android yet to do that.
Think about it.
Rev
butchconner said:
I think it would even be a good idea if someone knowledgeable could help us see if we could put together a flash which would actually delete/erase what's on a
troubled tab so it could be rebuilt.
Rev
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Click to collapse
I would recommend running a format zip before any reloading on a Gtab whether a new rom or the stock. Just like all the computers I work on for people the first thing I do is run a program to erase the hard drive to make sure nothing old can interfere with a new reload of the operating system
Calkulin has this format zip from his rom thread or you could use the other one from here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=974422
Start fresh don't just overwrite!
ale
Calkulin's Format all is awesome
Exactly. Calkulin's format all is a life saver. It is much cleaner and faster way than to do three or four steps to clean stuff out (Invariably one forgets one of the steps which causes all the problems).
I have used this file to solve many problems going from rom to rom... Good stuff.
[Q] Should I step back and use the format zip?
notsob2002 said:
I would recommend running a format zip before any reloading on a Gtab whether a new rom or the stock. Just like all the computers I work on for people the first thing I do is run a program to erase the hard drive to make sure nothing old can interfere with a new reload of the operating system
Calkulin has this format zip from his rom thread or you could use the other one from here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=974422
Start fresh don't just overwrite!
ale
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two days ago I reset my gtab to stock. I have the 3389 zip saved and installed that using clockwork. I also used clockwork and did the data wipe/factory reset right before actually applying the rom.
Loading the stock VS rom removes clockwork and after reboot it pulled the OTA update and currently running the 3588 version.
I did this in anticipation of the upcoming VS update. The tablet seems to be running fine and as I said it's able to find and apply OTA updates.
Would you still recommend running this format zip, and then re-apply the 3389 I have saved?
Thanks,
Neudle
** Would like to point out there is a comment in the referenced post concerning using this format zip..."So this is a "detox" program for our gtablet that we can choose to run prior to NVflash process. And this process should not be done unless absolutely necessary, right?" "Yes, exactly..."
Neudle,
If you were at 3389 and did 3588 via OTA, I would try my recovery. If it does not
come up with your old CWM, then it should be stock recovery and you should be
good to go.
If needed, you always have the option of manually loading recovery and the 3588 update.zip into /sdcard and flashing stock again.
Rev
butchconner said:
Neudle,
If you were at 3389 and did 3588 via OTA, I would try my recovery. If it does not
come up with your old CWM, then it should be stock recovery and you should be
good to go.
If needed, you always have the option of manually loading recovery and the 3588 update.zip into /sdcard and flashing stock again.
Rev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the response.
Actually I think my tablet is fine. Unless I'm really confused (which is certainly possible) 3389 was the update from late december/early january. The 3588 is the update that came up in like febuary. Isn't 3588 the most recent?
This isn't the first time I've reloaded the stock rom and it seems it always over-writes/removes the clockworkmod.
I was simply more curious if you folks do feel it's always best to use the format.zip when swapping roms?
As I said, I'm simply prepping and anticipating the upcoming update from Viewsonic and not worried about clockworkmod for the time being. From what I've seen the update includes a recovery that looks similar.
Thanks again,
Neudle
I think the OP makes an excellent point for all us weekend tinkerers. The G-Tab is my first experience with an android device and although I have experience with rooting and flashing roms and kernals on another platform (WEBOS on my Palm pre), I have spent my first few weeks with this device just reading as much as I can on these forums before trying anything myself.
I was fortunate enough to get a great deal on this tab second hand from somebody who had already flashed it with Vegantab ( I believe 5.1.1). As it stands, it pretty much does everything I need it to do and there is no reason to break what alreday works...... except that I am a weekend tinkerer...... and I am thinking that I would like to try Calkulin's rom.
At the moment, I am not sure that it represent's an upgrade over what I have and I may wait for something gingerbread or honeycomb based that people report to have a signifigant benefit over Vegan 5.1.1...although I am sure I will convince myself differently at some point.
I know that I have CWM installed and that I can use this to clear up caches and personal info before flashing another ROM. Does Calkulin's format erase this? If so, does it need to be re-installed before putting on a new ROM? I am reading posts about people flashing back to stock and receiving updates before flashing a new rom. This completely confuses me as I don't understand the benefit unless, as the OP seems to indicate, there are bits that are left over from the old ROM when a new one is flashed. Is this desirable?
Sorry if I am asking so many questions in this thread. I know that there are bits and pieces of info scattered among many threads but some of it seems contradictory and some I am sure is outdated.
Can someone either outline or point me in the right direction to a step by step that outlines the most current and least likely way to brick upgrade from Vegan to Calkulin's ROM?
Thanks
butchconner said:
2. Read directions and read all the posts about others who have done the same thing you want to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my problem. Where is the step by step, this is how you take a GTab you just bought, to ROM "XYZ" the correct way? There are lots of "how to"s scattered all over this forum, but no one sticky at the top that says "Here's a step by step". Right now, I'm reading through everything again, before I try and mod my tablet, and it's a mess. It would be nice is someone+moderator made a nice, straight forward LOCKED thread that is stuck, that explains it all. The FAQ isn't quite the information necessary (in my eyes).
I'm pretty technical (engineer by trade) and if it takes me a bit to figure out how to do something, the general n00b is going to screw something up.
Just my thoughts.
h3llphyre said:
Here's my problem. Where is the step by step, this is how you take a GTab you just bought, to ROM "XYZ" the correct way? There are lots of "how to"s scattered all over this forum, but no one sticky at the top that says "Here's a step by step". Right now, I'm reading through everything again, before I try and mod my tablet, and it's a mess. It would be nice is someone+moderator made a nice, straight forward LOCKED thread that is stuck, that explains it all. The FAQ isn't quite the information necessary (in my eyes).
I'm pretty technical (engineer by trade) and if it takes me a bit to figure out how to do something, the general n00b is going to screw something up.
Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't found that to be the case at all. In fact, I've seen nothing but repetitive reinforcement of proper procedures from every knowledgeable source. If the ROM Creator says use clockworkmod to install then wipe data... well do it. If he/she says use standard recovery... well... This isn't rocket science. I've installed and tested every ROM listed here with no failures by following the included instructions. I can't believe that is an anomaly.
If you want to be truly successful, learn what each of these tools (clockworkmod, nvflash, etc.) does and more importantly what they do not do. When you educate yourself to their proper use you won't be finding yourself using a hammer when you need a screwdriver.
hotfire!,
I think that's one of the points I hoped to make in this thread.
I appreciate the "format" tips -- but I have not used it and none of the folks whose opinion I watch for have put their stamp of approval on it -- so my opinion of it is still
in the making. I will use it only cautiously until I have confidence it is good.
But as you have said, we do have a hodgepodge of stuff here. People try to do
too much too fast -- and others suggest stuff that doesn't need to be done.
For example -- if somethings crashes on my G-Tablet, I go back to a basic CWM/ROM combo that I know is good so I have a solid place to start and then rebuild. Takes a little longer, but I think it save me a lot of anquish.
So like a lot of others, I just help where I can. But I do try to be conservative and consistent making suggestions the will not "snow" the new or offend those who think
they know what they are doing.
And to everyone I suggest the wrong thing, OOOOPs, and apologies. To those who
help me an give others good help -- thank you.
Rev
K J Rad said:
I haven't found that to be the case at all. In fact, I've seen nothing but repetitive reinforcement of proper procedures from every knowledgeable source. If the ROM Creator says use clockworkmod to install then wipe data... well do it. If he/she says use standard recovery... well... This isn't rocket science. I've installed and tested every ROM listed here with no failures by following the included instructions. I can't believe that is an anomaly.
If you want to be truly successful, learn what each of these tools (clockworkmod, nvflash, etc.) does and more importantly what they do not do. When you educate yourself to their proper use you won't be finding yourself using a hammer when you need a screwdriver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But therein lies the problem. There *is* a great thread on installing CWM and then ROMs using that. Step by step, it's fantastic. Installing a new kernel *is* found in some of the threads, but I wish that great thread with the CWM and ROM installation also had Kernel info.
Regardless of if you know how these tools work, it's nice to have a step by step to follow, just to ensure you're doing everything in order. I do it at work when I'm working with a new system (I write it myself) just to make sure I follow the same procedure every time. It helps when problems arise.
I'm just saying, for the n00bs, it would be nice to have a "one size fits all" thread. I was able to successfully install CWM and Vegan without a single problem, as I've been reading this forum for MONTHS, but I'm not a normal person (nor are most of the regulars here).
One thing I try to do, is demystify technology. Make it easy, explain it in simple ways while still being effective as describing what is going on, and then you don't get "stupid questions" later. Essentially, trying to run in the opposite direction that most Linux forums tend to be. Threads buried 2 years back have the info, everyone screams at the n00bs saying "USE THE SEARCH".
Love this forum, the people here are REALLY helpful, but there is room for improvement. That's all I'm saying.
h3llphyre said:
But therein lies the problem. There *is* a great thread on installing CWM and then ROMs using that. Step by step, it's fantastic. Installing a new kernel *is* found in some of the threads, but I wish that great thread with the CWM and ROM installation also had Kernel info.
Regardless of if you know how these tools work, it's nice to have a step by step to follow, just to ensure you're doing everything in order. I do it at work when I'm working with a new system (I write it myself) just to make sure I follow the same procedure every time. It helps when problems arise.
I'm just saying, for the n00bs, it would be nice to have a "one size fits all" thread. I was able to successfully install CWM and Vegan without a single problem, as I've been reading this forum for MONTHS, but I'm not a normal person (nor are most of the regulars here).
One thing I try to do, is demystify technology. Make it easy, explain it in simple ways while still being effective as describing what is going on, and then you don't get "stupid questions" later. Essentially, trying to run in the opposite direction that most Linux forums tend to be. Threads buried 2 years back have the info, everyone screams at the n00bs saying "USE THE SEARCH".
Love this forum, the people here are REALLY helpful, but there is room for improvement. That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Short answer: Great idea! When will you have it ready? ;-)
Long answer...
I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is that there isn't a one size fits all answer to this "problem" (certainly not since the addition of TwoTapsX). The step by step instructions for installing ROMs, kernels, other hacks, etc. exist in the threads that contain the product (and most of those are stickied) because they aren't always identical. One "Superpost" meant to encompass all of those instructions would grow to be much too large and include far too many logical branches to be effective when you take into account the individual caveats for each. However, the methods for installing many of the products is similar in most cases even if the tools are not identical. Understanding which tool to use and how it works is the key to a successful experience.
For example are the recent cases of problems with TwoTapsX (formerly TnTLite 5.0.x). The instructions in the thread clearly stated that the users should start from a clean Viewsonic ROM without CWM (very different from other ROMs). It even stated an nvflash might be necessary if you had any problems with the install (also not usually necessary with other ROMs). Still, the overwhelming majority of users that had problems had failed to follow the instructions correctly and were unprepared to do an nvflash. These were generally not people that were new to the process, either. In cases where they were, a simple search for the error message they were getting or the condition they were experiencing turned up an answer within the first two or threes responses and virtually all of them were addressed in the original instruction thread or another recent thread with a similar title.
Another example, I still see threads daily about someone recently installing VEGAnTab 5.11 and all of a sudden their media disappears from their sdcard. This is a well known and very well documented problem with a long used successful work around. It isn't a case where their particular installation went awry, it's a known issue with the ROM. How many of those issues would need to be addressed in the "Superpost" in order to be effective and yet not be cumbersome?
To complicate things further, we now have indications that the next official release may change recovery to be incompatible with previous methods. It's possible we'll see further forking of these processes based on the developers preference of recovery which would reinforce the need to customize instructions for a particular product.
Room for improvement? Sure. I just think education is better than hand holding. I always encouraged my engineers to learn more and develop their own processes because they might actually be better, cheaper, more efficient, than whatever we currently had. I understood that MY answer might not always be the best one and I preferred to empower my associates.
All that being said... I'm all for anything that improves the community and more importantly helps its members. If you feel that it would be helpful then feel free to put something together or team with a few others to produce a document to address the issues you've identified. I'll be more than happy to link people to it if it fills a need for them just as I have to others in previous threads ;-)
Modding
You know normally I just read and lurk around here, but I can't keep my mouth shut any longer.
**WARNING** Not that I expect anyone to notice because apparently half of you can't read or don't comprehend what you do read, but anything past this point is probably not contributing to the conversation in a constructive way and should be considered as me ranting.
I have had my tab since December and have flashed every single Rom found on this forum at one time or another and the problems I see people have just amaze me. It's amazing because 9 out of 10 times it's because they didn't bother to read/comprehend the darn instructions or they are to lazy to search/read/comprehend on how to fix it or start over.
I am by no means a rocket scientist/programmer/developer/modder myself but I can read something 3-4 times first to make sure I comprehend before I go off deliberately voiding the warranty on a $400 device. And if I break it? Guess What?? There are instructions for that to if people would bother to look. Granted the information can be scattered around but if you can't be bothered to search/read then you should probably not be using a android device.
Last thing and I'll shut up. The entitlement I see coming from alot of people really makes my blood boil. You are an early adopter of bleeding edge technology, there are going to be problems and alot of them! If you didn't do research on the tab before you bought it you have no right to complain. The devs are not paid except by an occasional donation. They do this on their own time with their own equipment for the community. THEY DO NOT OWE YOU A THING, AND YOU SHOULD WORSHIP THEM SINCE WE ALL GET TO BENEFIT FROM THEIR HARD WORK!!!
Be Contented....
After tried two ROMs (TnT and NI) and finally sticked to NI, am well contented and satisfied. I think being contented may less your problem...
K J Rad said:
Short answer: Great idea! When will you have it ready? ;-)
<Plus lots of other stuff you said>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As you can see from my post count, I'm historically a lurker. I've literally read every single thread in the GTab section since December. The problem for me, mostly came down to once I bought the device (I research stuff to death before I pull the trigger) and was ready to try a new ROM, it was information overload. There *is* a good thread about ROMs and CWM as I said, so I followed that, after reading it 6 times to ensure there were no gotchas.
I want to try out Pershoot's kernel, but I don't feel like I've read the procedure enough times to feel confident I'll be able to do it without having to fix something I broke. So, I'll read it a few dozen times, research the tools used, and finally get to it.
End of the day, I'll probably ask the person who did the ROM thread if they wouldn't mind added text that I've put together for the Kernels (as a supplement to what he did). I do want to give back to the community.
Also, you'll hopefully be seeing some hardware mods coming soon from me, fully documented. My true love is hardware, so I'll leave the ROMs and Kernels to the software guys, and focus on improvements on the physical side of things.
Thanks for keeping the conversation friendly. Always great to hear other people's opinions on matters.
Hardware mods would be VERY cool. Just remember to put something in the thread about how to talk your wife into letting you replace the smoldering mess on the kitchen table so I'll be covered... ;-)
h3llphyre said:
Also, you'll hopefully be seeing some hardware mods coming soon from me, fully documented. My true love is hardware, so I'll leave the ROMs and Kernels to the software guys, and focus on improvements on the physical side of things.
Thanks for keeping the conversation friendly. Always great to hear other people's opinions on matters.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I speak for everyone here when I say "Bring them on!"
2 cents to add
I have worked in various areas of IT for over 30 years. Unfortunately android has not been one of them but the basic ideas are always the same. As one reader noted (with a little bit of steam coming from his ears) no one owes you anything here. You aren't paying and you're pretty lucky to have so many talented people making their efforts available to you. I, for one, am very appreciative. I do see the point however about documentation. I have been slowly (and painfully) coming up to speed on the various facets of this g-tab experience. What I find most frustrating is not the lack of directions (there are plenty if you look) or even responses (Clemsyn responded to my request for kernel updating info) but the lack of basic information. I recognize a linux type structure when I snoop around the file system. What is the relation of the ROMS to that? What exactly does clockwork do and where does it live? When you "clear caches" what exactly are you clearing? etc. I'm not expecting answers to these questions here but I think that is the problem a lot of us "caught in the middle guys" have. Sure, we can follow directions and usually everything works just the way it is supposed to but we don't know WHY. If you just blindly follow directions that makes you a "user" not an "admin" and who wants to be a user???? ha-ha What I really want to know is how/where do the more experienced people here (including devs) get their base information to know how to tinker with kernels, ROMS, etc? Where is the G-Tab Development for Dummies book hiding????
enigmas 0456,
You will find that lack of documentation is the hallmark of Android -- not just
here but everywhere. Probably more info here than most places.
Rev
Hello. I got a new GTab from woot today and I was reading on the forums about how bad the software is right out of the box. I want to root it but there are so many threads and so many confusing ones that I am not sure where to start.
Can someone tell me which custom mod is the best and tell me what I need to do first or just point me to a link. Also I am looking for flash and playing video files so let me know which mod is the best for videos and flash.
If a thread like this already exists then apologies. Thank you.
Check it out first!
Congratulations on joining the G-Tablet users.
I'm afraid it's not like you think, though. Last November when the G-Tablet was just getting started, the software was terrible. But there have been a couple of update since then and Update 3588 (the current stock software) really is not too bad. And there may be a new Update 3991 pending (you can read scads about it on this site) that offers even more nice stuff.
I would encourage you to take your new tablet, make sure it is updated to the
3588 version, start adding apps from the several other apps stores available, and do a bunch of reading here to see where your at and where you want to go.
Worst thing you can do is jump in and start changing things and doing things you don't understand and wind up with a problem you can't get out of. And we
have too many people lately winding up in that situation -- intentional or not.
As you learn you will figure out which ROMs do what and where people are having problem.
But in the meantime you'll have a pile of fun and learn a ton. Good luck.
Rev
I may be imagining it, but it seems like there's a steady increase of "help, I bricked my gtab" threads as people are starting to receive their woot's gtabs. Please stop and think. Have you ever done something like modding an android device before? Is it worth it?
If it ain't broken, don't try to fix it.
I currently got 2 gtabs. One I have modded the hell out of and the other I'm keeping the stock rom. What you can do is go to settings and set it to classic. The annoying weather TnT thing will go away and your gtab will work just fine. Very fast. Very sexy. Love you long time.
I beg you, please help yourself and consider just staying with the classic stock rom. I've been playing with it and I see nothing wrong with it. Works wonderfully.
One user on here came and said when he first started playing with the gtab in office depot he was expecting the worst screen ever because of all the negative reviews about the screen. But to his surprise, it turned out to be very pleasant. Why? Because people on the internet like to exaggerate.
And in this case, people really did exaggerate the unusability of the stock rom. If you're not doing aerobics and yoga with the gtab, you won't notice it. Please do yourself (and us all) a favor by not simply plunging into modding as soon as your gtab arrives. Play with the stock rom first. Make sure you set it to classic. Give it a couple days before you decide to whether put a custom rom on there or not.
Please think about what I just said. Amen.
+1 good advice!!!!!!
x2. And please read up on things like adb and nvflash BEFORE you you start modding. Imo, anyone modding their device should have these tools handy, in advance.
"adb", for example, is almost a standard requirement in other Android phone forums. But for some reason it's not stressed here - I am guilty of that as well. I think that, if you are taking the risk (and it IS a risk) to mod your device, you should have the tools to save yourself from yourself. There's a nice writeup on nvflash that I posted (and "Rev" wrote) and adb instructions are all over the place, not just here.
Thanks!
i dont understand where all the problems come from. if you do it just like the guide tells you, shouldnt it work? i havent dont it myself but ive read and reread the guides. arent they all exactly the same out of the box if there ota version is the same? is it people are just not following directions? cause its seems pretty simple to me even though i havent done it before.im planning on doing it and if i follow the directions exactly and it doesnt work, im just gonna throw it out the window.
Also, I forgot to add.
I work in a research lab. Even though I'm an engineer, I'm really the acting tech guy. As a side job, occasionally I make house calls to fix people's computer problems.
It is my experience that not-so tech savy people always manage to find problems that us techies would never find. Not only that, not-so tech savy people most of the time can't remember what they did and can't verbalize what they did. This makes it 100x harder on us techies.
You see, there are unspoken rules in the world of tech. For example, dealing with system files is risky. Deleting them is bad. Things like that. Not-so tech savy people don't know these rules and so they just stumble all over the place finding and creating problems that the tech people would never find.
What I just said above means that when you find (or create) a problem and you didn't follow the proper procedures, you're not always going to find someone that knows a solution. Why? Because the rest of us never dared to go down that dark narrow alley that you decided to run into. We don't know what's in there. And if you manage to find a 3 headed troll, how are we to know what to do since we've never been down that alley?
Take it for what it's worth. If I haven't detered you, at least have adb and nvflash ready. And make sure you know what you're doing with those.
fridge011 said:
i dont understand where all the problems come from. if you do it just like the guide tells you, shouldnt it work? i havent dont it myself but ive read and reread the guides. arent they all exactly the same out of the box if there ota version is the same? is it people are just not following directions? cause its seems pretty simple to me even though i havent done it before.im planning on doing it and if i follow the directions exactly and it doesnt work, im just gonna throw it out the window.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(1) Not-so tech savy people like to take short cuts for whatever reason. They also sometimes skip important steps in a procedure even though it's right there in front of them. At least one wooter has already bricked his gtab without backing up.
(2) No, they're not all exactly the same out of the box. Nothing is ever all exactly the same out of the box.
(3) Everything seems simple to me, too. But according to my experience, what seems simple to someone with experience isn't always simple to everyone else.
Just last week, I went to a woman's house to help her with computer problems. She made it sound like life and death on the phone. The only reason I tolerate her is because she might be my in law one day. Anyway, it turned out that the problem was she thought the monitor was the computer. We have explained to her over and over that it's only the monitor and that the box sitting below is the computer. Seems silly to us, but there it is.
fridge011 said:
i dont understand where all the problems come from. if you do it just like the guide tells you, shouldnt it work? i havent dont it myself but ive read and reread the guides. arent they all exactly the same out of the box if there ota version is the same? is it people are just not following directions? cause its seems pretty simple to me even though i havent done it before.im planning on doing it and if i follow the directions exactly and it doesnt work, im just gonna throw it out the window.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My transition from stock 3588 to tnt lite 5 now twotapsx went smooth as butter however some devices moving from other mods back down to 3588 and then to twotapsx had problems!!! The biggest issue was a confusion on using clockwork mod recovery as those who tried it with the ttx mostly found themselves semi-bricked which led to a literal borkathon . Most issues were from user error but on some cases there were oddball problems that just popped up!! So my point is that in Modding your tablets to anything other than stock you are risking a BORK but if you follow directions and have the proper backouts tools ready such as nvflash and adb you should be ok.
goodintentions said:
(1) Not-so tech savy people like to take short cuts for whatever reason. They also sometimes skip important steps in a procedure even though it's right there in front of them. At least one wooter has already bricked his gtab without backing up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+100 on this one. I have a friend that I had to help with rooting her evo and Gtab, and had to ask her every step she took to make sure she actually took them. Luckily she learned early on to use Nandroid and keep a backup of the stock rom and any working roms before you switch to another one.
fridge,
I've skipped posts after yours to answer you, so I apologize if I duplicate something.
YES, if you do everything right bad things CAN happen:
1. Android is not a well-documented operating system and something you just "think" your doing it right.
2. The G-Tablet can be cranky. Unexpected things happen. The other day my pristine, perfect tab
was shut down properly. Next time I turned it on I had huge
"android.process.acore" errors and I had to fix it.
3. I don't know of anyone who has revealed themselves on this forum that thoroughly
understands the structure of the OS software on the G-Tablet. Read all the posts
on boot.img and partition structure. It really would help us all if we knew more.
4. There are a lot of good people who "help" others on this forum Most give good
advice most of the time -- but those of us that are human make mistakes once in a while.
And honestly, some helpers may not give good advice -- don't do it if you don't
understand and feel good about it.
5. Some people don't abide by good IT practices. I saw someone trying to get help
the other day that had barely gotten started with the G-Tab and already had CWM and had
tried three or four ROMS and other related software -- and had a soft-brick!
People need to move slow and check things out more carefully.
6. And some of the software posted here for your use may not even work right. I know a
couple of programs I have seen associated with lots of crashes. If a program
is listed in the threads with lots of crashes around it -- you better be careful!
I could go on for a long while further. If you REALLY read the forum and what's going
on instead of just looking for things to install, you will see these patterns.
Rev
Agreed completely with the intention of this post but I don't think the increase of people messing theirs up is due to woot just yet. I ordered one from the woot sale and i am fairly sure that it hasn't even shipped yet, the email said within 5 days. They aren't the fastest at shipping stuff.
It's probably more so just due to the dropping price in general.
People who have not done any moding of other android devices before should absoltely so slow and wait on loading whole roms until they get familiar with it and read up a lot and do their homework otherwise they will risk breaking their device.
Sent from my ACS frozen Epic
May or may not be Wooters but several *have* posted that they have recieved them.
Adding one small thing I've learned over the years: sometimes an install/upgrade/mod just doesn't take the first time. Or the second. Or the third. Patience is a key to sucess in these things. If it doesn't work the first time, come back the next day and try it again.
Repeating again: READ the forums and all the old threads. Go back and read them again.
And if you don't do backups, I have no pity for you.
iamchocho said:
Agreed completely with the intention of this post but I don't think the increase of people messing theirs up is due to woot just yet. I ordered one from the woot sale and i am fairly sure that it hasn't even shipped yet, the email said within 5 days. They aren't the fastest at shipping stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, mine from woot is due to arrive tomorrow. May be that's because I ordered mine 10 minutes after midnight.
But regardless, people need to think twice before deciding to take the plunge.
Edit.
And I'm just cranky because I just found out this morning I've been a victim of credit card fraud. Someone's been doing a lot of shopping online with my credit card. Mostly games, so I'm guessing it's some spoiled brat somewhere who got lucky at hitting random numbers and got mine.
roebeet said:
x2. And please read up on things like adb and nvflash BEFORE you you start modding. Imo, anyone modding their device should have these tools handy, in advance.
"adb", for example, is almost a standard requirement in other Android phone forums. But for some reason it's not stressed here - I am guilty of that as well. I think that, if you are taking the risk (and it IS a risk) to mod your device, you should have the tools to save yourself from yourself. There's a nice writeup on nvflash that I posted (and "The Rev" wrote) and adb instructions are all over the place, not just here.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been lurking on the gTab forums here for the last several days, and have been trying to absorb all of the info I can. I tend to research everything in depth before I plunge into anything. While much information is here, it is fragmented, and what is easy to follow for a developer is not as easy to follow for others. roebeet, you do the best of any I've seen, and I appreciate it. I've done a lot of searches which have helped some. I'm not new to Android (or XDA) as I have a stock Droid Incredible, but I am new to mods to Androids. I have also used Linux in the past, and modded kernels for newer drivers using cookbook approaches, so little scares me if I have enough information. I've sort of figured out how to install and use nvflash, ADB, and CWM using the various guides, but I'm missing some fundamental knowledge on WHEN and WHY I should really be prepared to use them. I've also tried to do some reading on Nandroid, but have found little pertinent to the gTab. So here goes:
1. What is the primary use of each of the following tools, nvflash, ADB, and CWM? When should I expect to have to use each of them? Are there gTab specific guides to their uses and the options for each outside of ROM installation guides, etc? Specific examples of when I should use each, and even more important, when NOT to use them, would be helpful. I've read all of the ROM, nvflash and ADB installation guides, and the various FAQs, and I understand HOW to install each of, just want to understand the best practices for each.
2. After reading a lot, it appears that having a complete backup of my particular ROM would be a good idea since partitions seem to differ even on stock gTabs. I've read posts here that refer to Titanium, and the use of ADB and CWM to do backups, and others that refer obliquely to Nandroid. What is the use of each of the above to do backups? It appears that Nandroid is a piece of CWM, but I may be mistaken. And if I install TnTlite using roebeet's guide, I'm not supposed to use CWM anyway. So how do I do a backup?
3. I plan to use my gTab as I get it, allowing it to do OTA updates only, for a few days, playing with the TNT and normal Android interfaces. I understand that a major OTA may be imminent anyway, possibly based on the leaked 3991 ROM, so my current plan is to wait for it, at least for a week or two. I plan to explore the guts of the file system carefully to fully understand the various instructions I've found here. Is there a way to safely install nvflash and ADB and explore more, or do I need to have an already rooted ROM installed on the GTab.
4. Some people recommend updated to newer or tweaked kernels. I've found the kernels, but haven't found any good step by steps on how to install them. Any links you can point to?
As an aside, I think roebeet's idea of a good wiki for this forum is a good one. The main XDA wiki is about useless. I would expect to see beginners guides to nvflash, ADB, CWM, etc.
Thanks for your help.
Jon
Suggestion. If you are going to install a ROM, pull the detailed instructions from one of the reputable Devs here, paste it into a word processor and add a check box before each step ( can use bullet tool) Then make sure you go thru one step at a time and check the box just in case you get interrupted. If you are unclear on a step ( ie clear cache) research it before you do anything.
thanks for your replies guys, it is definitely good to know that even if i do it perfectly it might still not work the 1st time. ill just nvflash it and try again. this is a really informative forum.
I think a centralized FAQ and / or Wiki is needed, for all the concerns you stated.
"How do I setup adb? What is it used for?"
"What is nvflash? How do I backup all my partitions?"
"What's the difference between clockworkmod and standard recovery? What are the pros and cons of both?"
"What are the difference ROMs available and what are their differences?"
"What is a customized kernel and why would I use it?"
"I have an error <fill in the blank> -- what do I do?"
etc etc. With potentially hundreds of Woot users about to jump into XDA, I think this would be a fantastic thing to have. Heck, it would a good thing to have for ALL of us, myself included.
It's NOT an easy task, however. I would argue that it's a very arduous task and something that would need to be ongoing. But I think it would ease some of the repeat questions here, and give new users a good guide to understand some of the basics.
lamchocho,
Wrong! The wooters are here!
And as the days go by there's going to be more.
Gonna be interesting.
Rev
jonalowe said:
I've been lurking on the gTab forums here for the last several days, and have been trying to absorb all of the info I can. I tend to research everything in depth before I plunge into anything. While much information is here, it is fragmented, and what is easy to follow for a developer is not as easy to follow for others. roebeet, you do the best of any I've seen, and I appreciate it. I've done a lot of searches which have helped some. I'm not new to Android (or XDA) as I have a stock Droid Incredible, but I am new to mods to Androids. I have also used Linux in the past, and modded kernels for newer drivers using cookbook approaches, so little scares me if I have enough information. I've sort of figured out how to install and use nvflash, ADB, and CWM using the various guides, but I'm missing some fundamental knowledge on WHEN and WHY I should really be prepared to use them. I've also tried to do some reading on Nandroid, but have found little pertinent to the gTab. So here goes:
1. What is the primary use of each of the following tools, nvflash, ADB, and CWM? When should I expect to have to use each of them? Are there gTab specific guides to their uses and the options for each outside of ROM installation guides, etc? Specific examples of when I should use each, and even more important, when NOT to use them, would be helpful. I've read all of the ROM, nvflash and ADB installation guides, and the various FAQs, and I understand HOW to install each of, just want to understand the best practices for each.
2. After reading a lot, it appears that having a complete backup of my particular ROM would be a good idea since partitions seem to differ even on stock gTabs. I've read posts here that refer to Titanium, and the use of ADB and CWM to do backups, and others that refer obliquely to Nandroid. What is the use of each of the above to do backups? It appears that Nandroid is a piece of CWM, but I may be mistaken. And if I install TnTlite using roebeet's guide, I'm not supposed to use CWM anyway. So how do I do a backup?
3. I plan to use my gTab as I get it, allowing it to do OTA updates only, for a few days, playing with the TNT and normal Android interfaces. I understand that a major OTA may be imminent anyway, possibly based on the leaked 3991 ROM, so my current plan is to wait for it, at least for a week or two. I plan to explore the guts of the file system carefully to fully understand the various instructions I've found here. Is there a way to safely install nvflash and ADB and explore more, or do I need to have an already rooted ROM installed on the GTab.
4. Some people recommend updated to newer or tweaked kernels. I've found the kernels, but haven't found any good step by steps on how to install them. Any links you can point to?
As an aside, I think roebeet's idea of a good wiki for this forum is a good one. The main XDA wiki is about useless. I would expect to see beginners guides to nvflash, ADB, CWM, etc.
Thanks for your help.
Jon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm quoting Jon's post in its entirety because he both perfectly articulates a number of my questions as well as captures my sense that after days worth of information mining on this site, I'm semi-well-informed enough to do the kind of damage that will surely add to the confusion you all seem to realize is imminent here.
I may be able to help with question 4. Buried in Clemsyn's kernel thread (52 pp!) ...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=895825
...is this:
INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS:
1. ROOT, Flash CWM Recovery (if you haven't done this yet)
2. Create a FULL nandroid backup (optional since its just a kernel)
3. Download a kernel of choice
4. Put the kernel on root of sd
5. Boot into Clockwork MOD recovery (either from ROM Manager or manually- hold volume up and down at same time and press power button, then select "apply sdcard: update.zip"
6. In recovery select "Install zip from sd card"
7. Select "Choose zip from sd card"
8. Navigate to the kernel file and select it
9. Let it install, it will take a few minutes...screen will go weird (black with big blue letters) then take you back to recovery.
10. Reboot phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
goodintentions said:
Just last week, I went to a woman's house to help her with computer problems. She made it sound like life and death on the phone. The only reason I tolerate her is because she might be my in law one day. Anyway, it turned out that the problem was she thought the monitor was the computer. We have explained to her over and over that it's only the monitor and that the box sitting below is the computer. Seems silly to us, but there it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a fair warning, they (the in-laws) never change.
A little note as to why we'll probably start seeing a lot of uninformed people here is because Viewsonic actually has a link to XDA on the "Favorite gTablet Apps and Resources" page of their site, which is accessible from the main G Tablet home page
It's in the developer resources section, but as everyone already knows that doesn't stop some people.