Related
I'm really frustrated with this forum. I was about to become a lurker again and stop contributing, but I realized that this is not the solution.
Since the Kaiser forums are the most active forums on the entire site, we need some changes to make it better for all.
What I'd like to see done to help the situation is the following:
(edit) A wiki that's easier to edit and navigate, e.g., mediawiki, which would mean
More folks updating the wiki with the ability to edit subsections
More folks viewing the wiki with auto-created tables of contents
(edit)A single 'post your questions here' newbie thread to limit the amount of new threads created
(edit2)A thread or wiki entry linked at the top of every forum with proper forum etiquette.
(edit2) idea about restricting users according to post count removed
All of these suggestions will make this site more manageable and usable for all.
If you have any ideas, comments or opinions for or against, or just want to add to the list of suggestions, I look forward to them.
UPDATE 03-13-08
Thanks to Flar and the mods for pushing for new forums! Hopefully these changes, along with more member contributions, we will be able to fight back the redundant thread problem. I've noticed that quite a few senior members have taken a similar stance as I have with new users & redundant threads. I've been trying to either:
Giving the new user a search term (that we know will help), or
given the new user a way to navigate and use the resources here, mostly created by us to prevent users from asking questions in the first place, or
given the noob the links he wanted.
If you're genuinely interested in helping others, you'll realize that two of the three ways actually teach a person new things, which means they'll be better off on their own, while #3 only encourages them to ask more questions.
Finally, for all of you that may be new or have less post counts, it's not the amount of time you've been here reading, because that's not contributing back to the community. So my suggestion to you would be to come back and re-read this thread after you've contributed back to the forum by having at least 500+ genuinely helpful posts and see if you feel the same way.
And I don't mean suggestions to fix a soft key issue by bashing the keyboard with a screwdriver, like someone who has flamed this thread
_Alex_ said:
I'm really frustrated with this forum. I was about to become a lurker again and stop contributing, but I realized that this is not the solution.
Since the Kaiser forums are the most active forums on the entire site, we need some changes to make it better for all.
What I'd like to see done to help the situation is the following:
Restrict new threads to members (30 posts), forcing junior members to reply to existing threads. If new threads continue to be a problem, increase the limit to senior member status (100 posts).
More folks updating the wiki
actual comments for wiki updates so folks know what's new(I'm guilty of not doing this too) or an actual what's new page.
Both of these suggestions will make this site more manageable and usable for all.
If you have any ideas, comments or opinions for or against, or just want to add to the list of suggestions, I look forward to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more. A big part of the problem is the refusal of some to read or search before posting. When they don't get an immediate answer in an existing thread they start a new one. Maybe the answer is to allow the number of daily posts to be restricted by member status, with senior members being unresticted and moving downward from there.
To bad you can't put all of the threads inside the new sticky. That way, to post a new thread, you had to go thru the new sticky. Other than that, the only option I can think of is to hunt the redundant thread poster down and dismember them slowly on live t.v. broadcasted only to XDA members.
Edit:
I personally vote for my second option.
Agree with both suggestions. Mods...any comments? I have not dealt with forum software before...are those restrictions able to be implemented with this forum?
I've always liked the idea of limiting new people from starting threads, but I don't think we can judge on number of posts. I think this will just end with people joining, throwing an extra 30 useless posts into the first threads they come across, then posting their question thread.
I've always liked the idea of making someone wait 24 hours between registering and posting AT ALL. This way, we can still help those people with a genuine problem fairly quickly (rather than making them wait a week) but still weed out those who ask questions that could be answered by 2 seconds of thinking or looking.
Just my 2 cents!
Great suggestions _Alex_. There should be a stew time for new forum members. A 30 post limit should do it because by then one should have learned a little bit at least.
And now that there's a Google search box near the top of the page HOPEFULLY that cuts down on redundant new post.
@kwickone - Yes, it's possible and quite easy at that.
maybe there should be a noob section like hofo has for banned members. and you have to wait a while before you can post in the regular threads. then wait even longer before you can start a new thread.
Perhaps a rethinking........................................
Okay, this is a common problem on here. Over and over -- endless threads on this subject. It cannot be solved with current technology.
Embrace the problem.
Sandwich method:
Commend them on their new purchase of the new phone they got. Great!
Then advise them to search. Read and learn.
Then Commend their enthusiasm for Any effort they show.
...
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
This forum has turned into a user manual / tech support.
sd73ta said:
maybe there should be a noob section like hofo has for banned members. and you have to wait a while before you can post in the regular threads. then wait even longer before you can start a new thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There already is a noob section...the problem is no one reads it!
I waited 3 months before my 1st post or flash. I shadowed the threads, followed the chefs at that time (Faria, Molski, Xelencin, Risidoro) and watched the results of people flashing their ROMs. I waited till all was clear before I flashed.
Nowadays, people are buying expensive devices and just jumping into deep water without knowing how to swim and the cry to the lifeguard for help.
Would there be any way to link keywords to threads that already exist before its posted... eg if I started a thread re "no sound help me I dont read"... before it posted a list of threads that exist already would pop up saying something like have you looked at these...? perhaps wikis could be linked in the same way... or is this not possible...? cheers
dwny said:
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
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Click to collapse
This is not very userfriendly for people who do search before posting. Considering not every new user who joins the forum is a "lazy" noob.
Maybe it is an idea to have it a bit like the "Facepunch forum" of GMOD. (for non gamer, it a HL2 mod forum) They had exactly the same problem only a little bit bigger then it is on this forum.
They solved it by some sort of rate system. Forum users can rate a post. If a user get a certain amount of negative points he is banned from the forum for 24 or something like that. You can also rate someone if he makes clever remarks or usefull contributions and rate him with a "thanks!"
This way people know they are being watched for stupid questions that are posted over and over again and search before they do something stupid. After all, saying stupid thing will cost you a time ban.
If you want to know exactly how it works. Register at the facepunch forum to check it out. It really does work. http://forums.facepunchstudios.com/
Shadowdh said:
Would there be any way to link keywords to threads that already exist before its posted... eg if I started a thread re "no sound help me I dont read"... before it posted a list of threads that exist already would pop up saying something like have you looked at these...? perhaps wikis could be linked in the same way... or is this not possible...? cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even from my rudimentary knowledge of PHP based forums such as XDA, that would be extremely prohibitive in terms of processing power. Context-sensitive searching (even cached) is very resource intensive, and even implementing it on the Kaiser section ONLY would probably bring the boards to an impressive crawl.
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems a bit extreme. I bought my Kaiser and spent two or three days reading the wiki, boards, and specific threads about the Tilt. Still, I had a few questions that weren't addressed by existing threads and needed to start at thread. I agree with Alex's idea that there should be a delay (or post count check) for starting a new THREAD, but certainly not posting in general.
Likewise, I'm beginning to toy with cooking my own ROMs, and what if I was interested in starting my own thread to announce its availability? Certainly I shouldn't be required to append it to an existing (and likely unrelated) thread?
To the OP's original concern, I don't think it's a terribly unique thing to XDA. I frequent many forums, and it happens everywhere, particularly those which address technology or relationships. Everyone seems to think that their issues are unique and that they won't be covered in an existing topic. Likewise, many people just aren't comfortable with reading technical specifications, instructions, or explanations. I have dozens of friends capable of READING manuals for the devices they own and getting exactly what they need, but they don't trust the accuracy of the information unless I tell it to them myself.
Reading a bunch of instructions and trusting they are accurate is much scarier than having someone explain it to you, even if they're just regurgitating information already contained in dozens of wikis, texts or posts. This is the primary reason we have TEACHERS; most people are capable of reading everything they need to know, but prefer to have someone relate it to them in a way which caters to their understanding.
Long-winded thoughts aside, I agree with Alex's suggestions in their entirety.
i dont agree with the whole 30 or 100 postsbefore starting a tread but i do agree with the fact that it's annoying to read the same stuff over and over again people comming in with the same problems and questions but there are also people like myself that are longtime members but actually do read alot of posts so that they dont need to ask anything and dont make the 100 or so recommended post before starting a new tread..
but thats my opinion
I don't see how not being able to start a new thread will help.
Assuming I actually did search for my answer and wasn't able to find anything, where would I turn? If I can't start a new thread, I would have no choice but to hijack a different thread. That would probably upset the people involved in that thread more than creating a new thread that they could easily ignore.
How about the new thread button routing through search? So that when you entered the title, it did the search, and at the bottom of the search results there was the button that actually started a new thread.
Steal Google's Idea
Okay, How bout this:
When you open www.xda-developers.com you get this:
A Huge Search Box. Nothing else. You Have to go thru the search box to Even access this site.
?????
...
Jewcookie said:
This is not very userfriendly for people who do search before posting. Considering not every new user who joins the forum is a "lazy" noob.
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It's a matter of setting standards....there are none here!
If you know what the rules are, then you'll follow them....but you have to have rules 1st.
tdsuen said:
I don't see how not being able to start a new thread will help
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Click to collapse
That's where the problem lies.
How many new issues are there actually? Most of the issues are when people have a problem with a specific ROM. What's been happening lately is that the Rom threads are huge now and to gain attention to their inquiry, people are starting new threads. If you take a look at who's doing this, it's members under 3 months
(Just my opinion & observation)
zcink said:
Okay, How bout this:
When you open www.xda-developers.com you get this:
A Huge Search Box. Nothing else. You Have to go thru the search box to Even access this site. ?????
Okay still Drunk at the time.
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LOL... It's great to see a drunk guy contributing to this thread as it adds a touch of humor to the entire situation
FWIW, one of the new members decided to post their opinion about our frustration venting over in the regular Kaiser forum (which I read very infrequently because I know that's going to be filled with support requests).
I'm wondering how many new users will chime in on that thread...
arrogance and elitism (were all here for the same thing)
Why not add a few more Mod's and just delete them (threads or posts) quick and easy? Have an automated response to the person that: "the answers you needed were already posted in another thread".
dwny said:
It's a matter of setting standards....there are none here!
If you know what the rules are, then you'll follow them....but you have to have rules 1st.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree that there needs to be some forum etiquette that needs to be followed, especially regarding new threads. The question is how we go about enforcing it...
Hopefully the mods/admin will read this thread and take our suggestions to heart.
Sober
Okay
A totally Sane -- Sober guy -- was just joking bout the drunk part.
A Huge Search Engine
You have to go thru the search Engine box to enter this site.
You can't miss.
Anyone who does not search will be Shot On site and put into the Ovens!
hey there i have cm 4.2.5 right now and i want to update to current. do i need to update 4.2.6-4.2.9 individually or just update with the newest rom? thanks guys
You can just apply the newest one
this couldn't have gone in the existing cyanogen thread?
march83 said:
this couldn't have gone in the existing cyanogen thread?
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omg he created a new thread,,, lets beat him senseless,, dood grow up. lol. did you need to actually reply to this thread?
this is a user end question about a rom that already has a dedicated thread full of similar questions which is where they're meant to be. if every single question like this was asked in a new thread then no one would ever find the threads on roms and development that are the reason this forum exists. general user questions either go in the general sapphire forum or go in the existing threads. end of, move on.
march83 said:
this is a user end question about a rom that already has a dedicated thread full of similar questions which is where they're meant to be. if every single question like this was asked in a new thread then no one would ever find the threads on roms and development that are the reason this forum exists. general user questions either go in the general sapphire forum or go in the existing threads. end of, move on.
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You think with 9 posts under your belt it would mean your saving them for posting something useful....obviously I'm wrong!
Order in chaos
dreckis604 said:
You think with 9 posts under your belt it would mean your saving them for posting something useful....obviously I'm wrong!
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Click to collapse
He's right though. If people at least post redundant questions in the right thread, then they don't clutter up threads where they shouldn't have been asked at all.
It also makes it easier to find the answers if the questions aren't spread everywhere.
In this case, however, confusion easily arises when the Cyanogen thread is in the Dream forum and you own a Sapphire. Not immediately obvious where to ask relevant questions.
My own strategy is to provide a concise, clear, useful answer to the immediate question and also add ad vice about how to handle future questions. I don't really understand people who posting in response and neither help nor provide useful advice. That IS a waste of time.
wow was it really that big of a deal what a welcoming community
thanks to you guys that didnt give me **** and answered the simple question. I'll be more conscious of where i post next time
greensnow said:
wow was it really that big of a deal what a welcoming community
thanks to you guys that didnt give me **** and answered the simple question. I'll be more conscious of where i post next time
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Click to collapse
People, including me, are a little bit sensitive about the development forum. This probably should've gone in the Q&A section as its not directly development related...also the cyanogenmod wiki is a very good resource that it seems a lot of new users don't know about.
You shouldn't be afraid to ask questions and I apologize that it has become like that. This community really is amazing.
Google, read the wiki, read the thread, post in Q and A, hit up #cyanogenmod on freenode, etc. There is a ton of support available - maybe steer clear of the dev forum - it gets ugly, as you've seen.
Welcome to XDA
Hi Dear Admin
Why can not I would post in this forum?
For example, the following forum threads:
Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development
Torres 9 said:
Hi Dear Admin
Why can not I would post in this forum?
For example, the following forum threads:
Touch Diamond, MDA Compact IV ROM Development
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your post count is currently too low. You will be able to around 8 or 10 posts, no spam until then lmao. have fun and welcome aboard
I also cant post in the topic i want to ( darky's rom 9.3final )
i have a question i really want to ask there
I agree with these guys, it's not really a cool system we have to wait before asking questions.... it makes many days that I search the solution but I dont find it and I would like to post in a thread....
Same boat.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
mattlin32 said:
I agree with these guys, it's not really a cool system we have to wait before asking questions.... it makes many days that I search the solution but I dont find it and I would like to post in a thread....
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Click to collapse
Guys,
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WAIT TO POST QUESTIONS
This is because questions DO NOT belong in the development forum. It is as simple as that. Let me define "not really cool". It's having to tell people NOT to post questions outwith the device Q&A section.
Post your questions THERE, NOWHERE ELSE.
Do NOT post questions in development.
Only posting in development is currently prevented. Make your thread in Q&A.
it makes many days that I search the solution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- that's the point exactly. Search harder. The answer will be there. You just need to practice how to find it. Google is your friend.
getting there!
same... have to post 9 posts first, befere i can ask my question
voriand said:
same... have to post 9 posts first, befere i can ask my question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read my post above.
You do not need 10 posts to post questions. Post it in the Q&A section for your device.
XDA policy selects the USELESS posts
XDA policy selects the USELESS posts
pulser_g2 said:
(Sun 06 Mar 2011 18:54 GMT)
Only posting in development is currently prevented. Make your thread in Q&A.
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Click to collapse
IOW:
1) When we are new (to HD2 in my case), hence have a lot of issues with no clue, even no idea what to search exactly, and are willing to spend the time to find the exact forum, thread, post, to which we should ask a question (I did it, amply), we are FORBIDDEN to ask the relevant question in the appropriate, efficient, polite place and manner; instead, we have to post in a remote forum (Q & A), where all questions will end garbaged altogether with plenty unrelated others, and far away, both from the ones who could reply and from the ones who would like to second an existing question rather than posting a "new" one. Hence your policy is increasing the number of doubled or irrelevant questions, and refraining the people who are usually carefully, politely and efficiently writing their posts, while encouraging the Fast Posters (the ones who post faster than they can think or verify what they write).
2) Only when we finally have learnt (after lengthy and painful research in this unfriendly atmosphere) the information we need, hence only when we have no more questions, can we post in the relevant forums. But since the newer ones still CANNOT post there, our new knowledge can answer no question and no people, hence is useless to others. This explains why there are so many fundamental questions that are still plaguing many users after 2 years, with plenty threads addressing them without answering them (because missing the way the questions happen in new users' minds) but still no thread exposing them clearly and efficiently.
Versailles, Mon 07 Mar 2011 19:06:30 +0100, edited 19:11:20
"Google is your friend" only denotes people UNABLE to build an efficient search
"Google is your friend" only denotes people UNABLE to build an efficient search
pulser_g2 said:
(Sun 06 Mar 2011 18:54 GMT)
Search harder. The answer will be there. You just need to practice how to find it. Google is your friend.
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Click to collapse
Most people are Scarce Posters, IOW do search a lot, intelligently and carefully, before asking a question on a forum; so while numerous, they remain little visible. OTOH, the Fast Posters (the ones who post faster than they can think or verify what they write), needing no time before posting, do post a lot, hence look as more numerous than they actually are; and of course they have not often really tried to build really efficient searches (or they would know it can be done only when you already know a significant amount about your seek).
The invisible majority (Scarce Posters) do know that Forums' Search Engines most often fail, and that searching a Forum from Google, sure can be much more efficient, yet only with informed and carefully built search requests. The ones who require visitors to "search" while giving neither help nor hint about how and what to search, belong to the vocal minority of "Fast Posters" and have generally NOT tried themselves - or they would know the above, hence would belong to the "Scarce Posters".
IOW, really helpful people don't reply "Google is your friend", instead they post, after trying, tweaking and testing it, the exact search to do, for instance Google "How to flash 6.5.3 ROM on HD2 site:xda-developers.com". And as you can see, this particular search request, as carefully designed as it may be, is still far from the right one(s), because when you need it, you usually DON'T KNOW YET what to search; here, when I designed this one, I STILL IGNORED that I needed to download and install a BOOTLOADER, an HSPL, a RADIO, a ROM (and which one: a "3.14"? a "1.66"? What are those?), and possibly a MANILA and some other stuffs.
IOW, when you have written the appropriate search request, your problem is already almost completely researched, thought, defined, and solved. When someone is asking something on a forum, the one replying "Google is your friend" is essentially someone who is UNABLE to build a helpful search request (or he would just post it). Requiring from the visitor to search before asking is just, despite the appearances, putting the cart before the horse: unrealistic, illogical, unhelpful, and counterproductive.
I think the great resources on XDA Forums are hampered by a bad case of NIH and Resistance to change.
Versailles, Mon 07 Mar 2011 19:13:00 +0100, edited 19:19:25
What about questions about specific custom ROMs? Should they also be posted in the General Q&A sections of the device?
pulser_g2 said:
Read my post above.
You do not need 10 posts to post questions. Post it in the Q&A section for your device.
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Click to collapse
Lol.. Thanks.. This solve my problem..
Well, the problem with forming a good search term is that most of the useful text is not so well written as to be easily searched. You can spend all day sorting through search results, trying to kraft THE perfect query, and still miss the web page that gives you the answer you need.
I tried to post a question about rooting the noot tablet and was told I have to have posted at least ten times here to be able to post there. Why do I see a junior member post with four posts over in the nook tablet thread. BTW not a rookie. I have rooted my Droid and played with ADB quite a bit.
Thanks
Depends on when they joined the forum. That rule isn't retroactive (IE if you joined before that rule, you don't need 10 posts to post in development sections).
Thanks for your response
The rule is meant to encourage people to post in the general section. Its a very widely held belief that the dev section is not for questions, its for dev work, and questions just clog the board and threads. There is no restriction to posting in any of the non-dev sections.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
While I understand with the general point of having to weed out the newbies's (and I include myself in that!) general questions/queries, I disagree with the 10 posts cut-off rule entirely.
One example: I have quite a trivial problem with compiling/upgrading certain packages (i.e. compiling and preparing .apk file after altering the source code and patching it) and building the rootfs for my phone.
This is a query only the devs would be able to address, quite easily, as they have been doing this for ages and know this process like the back on their hands.
This query is well-suited to be posted in one of the devs forums in here, but since I have less than 10 posts I can't do it and I am, quite literally, stuck!
It is not very likely that the devs are reading all the Q&A forums as the traffic on these is quite high and single queries like the one above could easily get lost among all the other stuff.
One of the Q&A forums had a traffic of about 6-7 pages of new threads per day, so you can understand why a single message could get lost there quite easily.
I did post my query, but, unsurprisingly, this was not answered.
I know I could wait and "blagg" my way through with meaningless posts to reach that 10 post minimum count, but I don't think this is a proper way of addressing this issue.
My two pence worth, of course.
I agree much with this thread. I dont believe I should have to post 10 times somewhere else that I have no interest in. Im looking to dev on the kindle android builds but I cant do anything but watch what others are posting. I personally believe this is bologna.
josh36 said:
While I understand with the general point of having to weed out the newbies's (and I include myself in that!) general questions/queries, I disagree with the 10 posts cut-off rule entirely.
One example: I have quite a trivial problem with compiling/upgrading certain packages (i.e. compiling and preparing .apk file after altering the source code and patching it) and building the rootfs for my phone.
This is a query only the devs would be able to address, quite easily, as they have been doing this for ages and know this process like the back on their hands.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the dev forums are not there so you can ask the devs to answer your question.
This is exactly what the 10 post rule is there to prevent.
People using dev forums as Q&A forum, because they think they will receive quicker answers there.
Post your question in the question&answer forums, and if a dev wants to answer your question, he will do so, if not, well tough luck!
Dark3n said:
No, the dev forums are not there so you can ask the devs to answer your question.
This is exactly what the 10 post rule is there to prevent.
People using dev forums as Q&A forum, because they think they will receive quicker answers there.
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Click to collapse
I disagree - a cursory look at the Android Software Development (Discussion about Android-specific software development) forum shows at least 6 threads on the first page alone started by various posters either describing a specific problem/bug/feature (asking for clarification/assistance) or placing a direct question - see for yourself, go and have a look.
The other point I've made was that all these questions get drowned in the sea with all the rest and the chances of someone seeing, let alone addressing a specific problem are slim-to-none.
One other thing - when I get to test/implement something I've seen in a given dev forum (a package, a specific update zip etc - you get the point) and find an issue/bug or simply wish to post a comment or give a feedback, I can't do that, but have to go and do it in a completely different place, together with all other (unrelated) queries/questions from all other users - do you honestly think that makes sense, because to me it doesn't - at all!
miniblue said:
I tried to post a question about rooting the noot tablet and was told I have to have posted at least ten times here to be able to post there. Why do I see a junior member post with four posts over in the nook tablet thread. BTW not a rookie. I have rooted my Droid and played with ADB quite a bit.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That are the rules that you agreed
t1mm0, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
Please Read: New members (those with fewer than 10 posts) are not permitted to post to development-related forums.
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I've been visiting XDA for many years and always find the answers to my questions via searching rather than posting questions.
I've therefore never had the requirement to post in the development section but I do now regarding ICS RC4.
I realize that there are many users who never search and *do* post stupid questions but is there any way for someone like myself to skip the 10 posts?
This isn't perhaps the best titled thread but I kinda feel like this since I'll have to post another 8 stupid threads before I can get to the folk who may know the answer to my question.
If you want to post a question about something related to a ROM, try looking in the Q&A section for the ROM you're using. You can post there without the 10-post limit, and unless you're bringing up a specific bug or have some sort of code to contribute to the item you would be posting under, that section should be able to handle whatever you would need.
New users should really read this I suppose.
I know it makes sense. I just needs an answer quickly
t1mm0 said:
New users should really read this I suppose.
I know it makes sense. I just needs an answer quickly
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If the Q&A isn't getting you where you need to be, you could always try the waters of sending the developer in question a PM. Depending on how swamped they are, you might get the answer you're needing a lot quicker.
It's really a stupid rule. What it should be, is 50 posts to make a thread in the dev section.
Sent from my SGH-I897
I can see the objective of it the rule but yes, 50 posts to start a new thread in the Dev section would make more sense to me.
Agreed. I lurk, learn, and do. And I'm grateful to those who do develop on this platform. But I can't participate because I haven't passed the magic 10-post rule.
And I'm a software developer (not Android) by trade, so I understand what facilitates discussion and what does not, and I have a pretty good idea what are reasonable questions and what aren't.
The purpose of the Dev section is to post about developing not questions that is what the q&a or general
Thread closed
t1mm0 said:
I've been visiting XDA for many years and always find the answers to my questions via searching rather than posting questions.
I've therefore never had the requirement to post in the development section but I do now regarding ICS RC4.
I realize that there are many users who never search and *do* post stupid questions but is there any way for someone like myself to skip the 10 posts?
This isn't perhaps the best titled thread but I kinda feel like this since I'll have to post another 8 stupid threads before I can get to the folk who may know the answer to my question.
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There are specific threads set up in Q&A for most of the ROMs, including ICSSGS RC 4. Post there and you'll be read, and most likely answered.