Related
Hi All,
I know it is possibile to trace/track a GSM mobile telephones location all over the world.
I also know some compaines does this for chargeable service.
I am VERY interested in getting this for free! (I bet you are also).
Anyone know how to do this without empty our pockets??
Thanks,
in fact, i have the same interest.
who wouldnt love to know how to do this?
The only information you can get out of your own phone, is the ID of the basestation it is attached to. This is held in a register in the phone internals that can be read via the RIL interface.
It is also stored in the SIM. If the phone is totally powered off it will attempt to connect to the last known good base station on power on. (Quicker than sniffing around all available frequences for an suitable station.)
While a change of basestation could be detected by software running on a phone, only the Telco's database has the location of all active phones, so they can inform the basestation to contact your phone if there is an incoming call or data.
This data is theirs and theirs alone. It is valuable and confidential, hence the charge for any use of it.
In short all you can find out from your phone is where it is. But you know that anyway.
Erm... I just wrote this and then I realized that you want to track the device via GSM and not GPS. This will only work with GPS (can be activated in the background), sorry.
Just look for an application that allows you to track your device if its stolen. Some of the programs still work after changing simcard (which is not really interesting if it did not get stolen in the first place...). If everything is set up, you can easily receive a sms with the current location (you need to activate the programm by sending a sms).
If you need to know the exact position of the device like every second, you can use a jogging-trainer which logs the speed etc. But this will only store the positions on the device (you can upload them to your computer, but this can probably not be done via any wireless connection.
My english is not the best, I am sorry. But I am sure you're gonna understand everything ;D And no, I don't know any programs name because I don't use them.
XphX
Stephj, are You talking about GSM or CDMA? Because for GSM I know for sure that the Telco knows a bit more - at least it is possible to triangulate the user's approximate position using three or more base stations (and probably user's signal strength for each base station too). So the DB should hold more info about the base stations available to user's current position, as for example "ready to go base stations" or something like that.
For tracking the phone, you can try GLympse or LookOut, Look out is better if you loos your phone, it synchronize with their website, and can see the location on the phone anywhere in the world, even can delete your data from your web account on look out.
Earn money with your phone through wifi and phone cell towers UK included.
Navizon have just released a new software version of Navimote (v1.07) for Android handsets.
Ever wondered how you could transform the miles you travel into cash in your account. Well, now you can with Navizon rewards.
When you use Navizon with a GPS device, every Wi-Fi access point and Cell tower that you pass by will be logged and turned into points on your account.
If they are discovered by you (If you are the first one to map them)
15 points for each cellular tower
3 points for each Wi-Fi access point
If they have already been mapped by someone else
(except in a few areas)
1 point for each Wi-Fi access point
2 points for each cellular tower
Once you have 10,000 points, you can redeem them for a reward, and $15 will be wired to your Paypal account (minus the Paypal fee in the amount of $0.29).
Note: You may also choose to redeem a reward for a free upgrade to Navizon Premium.
The idea is fairly simple: some users who have GPS enabled phones, or a standalone GPS device map the wireless landscape (ie. the location of Cell towers and Wi-Fi Access Points) wherever they go, so that other users who don’t have GPS will be able to use a positioning system that works independent of GPS.
Instead, location is achieved by triangulating those same Wi-Fi and/or Cellular signals, whose location is now known thanks to the "mappers."
Like in every community, there are the people who do the work and others who benefit from it.
So users who don't want to map any points, but still want the full featured version of Navizon, need to buy it.
But the money is not going in our pockets, it is going in the pockets of those who make Navizon possible, by mapping the wireless landscape wherever they go.
SetUp Instructions.........
Please uninstall the old one and search for Navimote in the market.
The new one is version 1.0.7.
When you start Navimote, click "menu".
It has the usual options (enable/disable, register token and manage account).
Under the "advanced" option you have "Reset network settings":
Use this is you can't be located - it will re-establish the connection with the server.
And you also have the new options:
Power mode:
High = Navimote will always attempt to use the GPS on, in order to collect data
Normal = Navimote will will attempt to use the GPS only when the phone is connected to an external power source. This makes sense for people who always connect the phone to a car charger when driving.
Navizon account:
Enter your Navizon username/password and you will accumulate points in your Navizon account when you collect data.
Sync:
Upload the data you have collected to the Navizon server.
Just like all other versions of Navimote, the collected cells/wifi or the number of rewarded points are not displayed on the screen - so you will have to check your rewards page on http://www.navizon.com if you want to see your points status. (You can use "manage account" to do this)
I recommend that the power mode is set to normal, and that the phone is connected to external power when you're in the car.
Upload the data every now and then (maybe once per day) and you'll see points accumulating in your account.
To collect as many points as possible, make sure that your phone is configured to let applications use the GPS, and also try to leave WiFi on when collecting.
(Power/profile managers may interfere with the GPS and the WiFi state, so if you use one of these please make sure it does not prevent Navimote from using the GPS and that it does not switch off WiFi.
I use a profile manager and have configured it to allow GPS use and switch WiFi on whenever the phone is connected to AC power. I've also configured Navimote with the "Normal" power mode and it works well.)
Sign Up Here!
Once signed up visit Android Market on your device and download Navimote. In settings you can input your username and password.
Happy earning.
EDIT: Works WorldWide!
potter1984 said:
Earn money with your phone through wifi and phone cell towers UK included.
Navizon have just released a new software version of Navimote (v1.07) for Android handsets.
Ever wondered how you could transform the miles you travel into cash in your account. Well, now you can with Navizon rewards.
When you use Navizon with a GPS device, every Wi-Fi access point and Cell tower that you pass by will be logged and turned into points on your account.
If they are discovered by you (If you are the first one to map them)
15 points for each cellular tower
3 points for each Wi-Fi access point
If they have already been mapped by someone else
(except in a few areas)
1 point for each Wi-Fi access point
2 points for each cellular tower
Once you have 10,000 points, you can redeem them for a reward, and $15 will be wired to your Paypal account (minus the Paypal fee in the amount of $0.29).
Note: You may also choose to redeem a reward for a free upgrade to Navizon Premium.
The idea is fairly simple: some users who have GPS enabled phones, or a standalone GPS device map the wireless landscape (ie. the location of Cell towers and Wi-Fi Access Points) wherever they go, so that other users who don’t have GPS will be able to use a positioning system that works independent of GPS.
Instead, location is achieved by triangulating those same Wi-Fi and/or Cellular signals, whose location is now known thanks to the "mappers."
Like in every community, there are the people who do the work and others who benefit from it.
So users who don't want to map any points, but still want the full featured version of Navizon, need to buy it.
But the money is not going in our pockets, it is going in the pockets of those who make Navizon possible, by mapping the wireless landscape wherever they go.
Sign Up Here!
Once signed up visit Android Market on your device and download Navimote. In settings you can input your username and password.
Happy earning
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is this only for uk? or usa as well.
Kush.Kush™ said:
is this only for uk? or usa as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No its for the USA aswell sorry forgot to mention that
potter1984 said:
No its for the USA aswell sorry forgot to mention that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol iight did you get my message
Kush.Kush™ said:
lol iight did you get my message
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea thanks for that m8
Glad to have you onboard
Just to update have already started logging cell towers up, and have 4,526 points already within 3 hrs, This app is MINT!!
this stuff legit or is it hokie?
Sounds Hokie.
10000 towers thats 15 dollars for every tower in Arizona.
You'll never make 10,000 points at that rate, unless you seriously travel. And if you have the money for all of that traveling, what's 15 dollars to you?
This sounds like a good way for a company to trick a bunch of muppets into going out and field sweeping for radio sources, for them, instead of having to hire someone...
Is this each time you pass a tower you get points, or does it have to be "new" towers? So if I pass one, I can only get points for it once? Say, if I keep this on during commuting to work and back, I will only get points the first time I pass them, and then never again?
will this work in Australia?
When you pass already mapped towers, yes you still get points. Just not as much as the first time you map it.
Yes this app works world wide.
If you hit the navimote web site their faq will tell all on how it works.
And yes this is legal, the faq will tell you how the money is made
Also this app will benefit people who travel a lot in their jobs. Or very keen ramblers! Lol.
This program is great I have always used navizon or navimote.
Varking said:
Is this each time you pass a tower you get points, or does it have to be "new" towers? So if I pass one, I can only get points for it once? Say, if I keep this on during commuting to work and back, I will only get points the first time I pass them, and then never again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Think You owe me a Copy right appology!!!
Y you say??
Next time make your OWN post, dont just copy and paste, Its lazy, and just shows how intelligent your are, Ctrl + a, Ctrl + c, Ctrl + v.
Are you telling me thats all you can muster??
NOT COOL BRO NOT COOL.....................................
I tried this app, but just didn't understand how to see if you earned any points...After about a 2 hour drive, I went to sync my account and it said there was nothing to sync. I love the idea, just can't get it to work.
oMenaceTigero said:
I tried this app, but just didn't understand how to see if you earned any points...After about a 2 hour drive, I went to sync my account and it said there was nothing to sync. I love the idea, just can't get it to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The sync on the app is not nesseccary the app automatically sends the info off!. The Sync option is their incase you have no data connection, so upload when you get home.
You can check the points you have earnt from the web interface, but it takes a few hours to show up on the site.
Check your account on the web, If you have set it up properly then the points will be their
Just an update....
i had had my First £15 back today!! Woop Woop, 2weeks 1 day from installing the app.
Hope everyone else will follow suit soon
Tell Me Some New Ways if any?
Suggestion: Tell Me Some New Ways if any, that will increase interest of reading your Thread,
Thank you,
For the past few days, I've been dealing with what appears to be a disproportionately huge group of Evo owners (relative to other Android phones) who've been having crashes with an app I wrote that appear to be caused by the unavailability of network-based location services. I did some research, and it looks like a LOT of Evo owners have been doing things that (temporarily?) disable network-based location services in an attempt to keep the battery from dying too quickly.
Are Evo users who do this literally going into Settings and disabling network-based location services outright, or are there one or more apps/hacks that supposedly disable it only when "it's not being used"? If there are, what does an app that depends on network-based location services have to do to make sure that whatever is supposedly enabling network-based location services "when necessary" realizes that it is, in fact, necessary... and do it in a way that won't cause the lookup request to prematurely or needlessly fail?
Like I've said, I've had a few users with other phones have problems due to the app's current absolute dependency on the availability of network-based location services... but with Evo owners, it's more like a nonstop hailstorm of complaints. Rewriting the way the app handles location to eliminate that absolute dependency is my next major project, but it's going to take me at least a week or two to finish, and in the meantime I'd love to be able to find a temporary solution that I can patch and release tonight that will solve the worst of the problem for the majority of Evo users in the meantime.
Speak up brother. What is the App (so people who don't have the slightest clue as to how to relate your user name with the buggy app you have)?
I'm not sure why anyone would do this, aside from "privacy" concerns... It will not help with battery life on it's own. If your GPS is turned off, your device gets it's relative location via the cell phone tower's coordinates. This information gets transmitted to your phone regardless if you have it disabled to accept it.
They are probably thinking that if they disable it, other services won't try to update information based on your location. Instead they should just adjust any services that are auto-updating.
I can go >24hours before I need to charge my phone with moderate usage throughout the day (without using 4G). I can post SystemPanel screenshots if anyone is interested.
mattrb said:
Speak up brother. What is the App (so people who don't have the slightest clue as to how to relate your user name with the buggy app you have)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, if it makes you happy, I didn't personally write it that way. It's a legacy app I'm helping to fix. In the meantime, I'm trying to put out as many fires as quickly as I can. That said, I'm not going to condemn the original author. All things considered, it was a perfectly reasonable decision for him to make. It was his first major Android programming project, and his immediate runtime environment was a Droid on Verizon. 99% of his Android-owning friends were Sprint or Verizon. For the most part, on Sprint & Verizon, network-based location services work really well. The app's dependency on them didn't really bubble to the surface as anything more than likely user error until lots of non-Americans started showing up with phones that couldn't be automatically assumed to have inseparably-bundled mandatory data service.
Truth be told, America is a lot like Japan -- cellular networks that are almost proprietary to the national market and work in ways that aren't necessarily consistent with the way things work elsewhere in the world, but utterly ubiquitous and totally dominant within it. I'm sure that right now, plenty of Japanese developers are writing Android apps that assume every phone supports network-level low-latency "Push to Talk" capabilities (IDEN's "killer app"), or some other feature that's ubiquitous in Japan and (almost) unheard of elsewhere. Six months from now, they're going to be scratching their heads wondering why it crashes on every phone in Europe and most phones in America (Sprint, and I think Verizon, try to emulate IDEN's PTT on CDMA by buffering the audio stream on a server, then sending a SMS to the recipient's phone that triggers its download and streaming a couple of seconds later).
Anyway, I digress. Getting back to the original question, are Evo owners who disable network location doing it manually, or are they doing it in a way that can be worked with cooperatively by apps in order to get it to automatically turn it back on when needed?
Actually, I have theory #2 about why Evo owners might be having problems, but it's pure speculation at this point. I'm wondering whether there might be Evo owners who've explicitly disabled EV-DO and 1xRTT to try and force the phone to use WiMax in areas where it might otherwise try to fall back to the older modes, and the possibility that even NON-network location service DEPENDS on EV-DO/1xRTT for aGPS data transmission of the raw telemetry data. In a way, it makes sense... the WiMax network is totally parallel to the CDMA2000 network, and it's not inconceivable that there might BE no data route between the Sprint WiMax network and the servers that handle aGPS queries. Especially if there aren't any real-world locations where Sprint WiMax is available, but CDMA2000 data is not.
If you go into the settings you can disable the network location, but there are ways for an app to ask if the user wants to turn the setting back on.
Evo owners can't disable 1xRTT otherwise standard calls and text messages won't work anymore. They can change settings if they have their MSL code such that EVDO isn't ever used however.
Well, maybe "disable" is a strong term. I know that on a Hero, there's a network setting somewhere that allows you to tell the phone, "Use EV-DO, or don't do data at all". It doesn't affect the operation of voice or sms -- only the phone's willingness to fall back to 1xRTT for internet access if EV-DO isn't available. I'm assuming the Evo has a similar setting that goes a step further and lets you dictate "WiMax or Nothing".
Here's how it could theoretically affect location services: obviously Sprint does aGPS. By law, it HAS to do it for e911 purposes. HOWEVER, I think that non-e911 aGPS lookups on Android phones get diverted through Google (or at least an aGPS service hosted by Google) unless you pay Sprint extra for navigation service. Under those conditions, if you told the phone to use ONLY WiMax for internet access, and you were in an area where only EV-DO and/or 1xRTT data were available, you could have a situation where the phone can do e911 location, but wouldn't necessarily have that info available for use by other applications (vis-a-vis most of HTC's WinMo 6 phones). If the phone couldn't use WiMax, and the user dictated "WiMax or Nothing", the phone couldn't reach Google. Without Google, there'd be no free aGPS for Android apps to consume.
The above is pure speculation, of course. As a practical matter, Sprint itself can't/won't give a coherent explanation of where the line gets drawn between Sprint and Google for (a)GPS service, which makes troubleshooting location-related problems that much more fun. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if late-model HTC phones DO have 100% of the hardware onboard to turn satellite telemetry into latitude/longitude/altitude coordinates, but the underlying software fails without realtime network connectivity anyway because it still tries to involve a server somewhere for some reason.
Look, this is what happens to me and I think it's a bug.
When I turn off GPS for a while, like for 12 hours, and then I turn it on, I still see the "Location" icon crossed out. At first I didn't know what was going on. I thought it was the GPS icon, but it wasn't, it was the location services being turned off.
So I reproduced it several times and this is what happens. When you turn off GPS for a while, the location setting will be turned off also, and it will remain off even after you turn on the GPS again. Which IS A BUG. That's not an expected behavior. So you may be right.
baiatul said:
Look, this is what happens to me and I think it's a bug.
When I turn off GPS for a while, like for 12 hours, and then I turn it on, I still see the "Location" icon crossed out. At first I didn't know what was going on. I thought it was the GPS icon, but it wasn't, it was the location services being turned off.
So I reproduced it several times and this is what happens. When you turn off GPS for a while, the location setting will be turned off also, and it will remain off even after you turn on the GPS again. Which IS A BUG. That's not an expected behavior. So you may be right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My experience doesn't mirror that at all. When I turn GPS on (which I am impressed to say has it finding satellites many times faster than my old HTC Fuze) the location disabled icon changes almost immediately. I saw this a lot over last weekend when I was doing a lot of phone based navigation.
Yes, I forgot, I'm in NY, and in Manhattan very strange things happen when you go in and out the subway with signal and no signal several times a day for periods of time from minutes to an hour.
Many programs that are expected to work crash when there is no signal. Or when you run applications in the subway with no signal, the gadget freezes sometimes. Maybe this GPS thing is also one of those glitches. Maybe it's a combination of turning on or off the GPS, and then the loss of signal for a while. It still happens to me, but I got used: every time I turn back on the GPS after being disabled for MANY HOURS (12? 24?), I have to turn back on the Location setting.
merak69 said:
I'm not sure why anyone would do this, aside from "privacy" concerns...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I turned off network location services for one simple reason....using it caused my location to off by at least 1/2 mile. So it seemed pretty useless to me.
pixelpop said:
I turned off network location services for one simple reason....using it caused my location to off by at least 1/2 mile. So it seemed pretty useless to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's basing your location on the information from the cell phone tower. It isn't meant to give you a precise location like GPS can (this is why its called aGPS). The point is to give a general location so that apps that need to know what city you are in (weather apps for example) can figure it out to show you information for where you currently are.
If you want precise information, turn on full GPS and you are good to go.
My point was disabling location services entirely will not save you any more battery life vs leaving network location on (excluding full GPS obviously). What will save you battery is turning off your other services (Facebook, Twitter, News, etc) to only update when you manually say so or setting their update schedules to much longer frequencies.
Here's how it could theoretically affect location services: obviously Sprint does aGPS. By law, it HAS to do it for e911 purposes. HOWEVER, I think that non-e911 aGPS lookups on Android phones get diverted through Google (or at least an aGPS service hosted by Google) unless you pay Sprint extra for navigation service. Under those conditions, if you told the phone to use ONLY WiMax for internet access, and you were in an area where only EV-DO and/or 1xRTT data were available, you could have a situation where the phone can do e911 location, but wouldn't necessarily have that info available for use by other applications (vis-a-vis most of HTC's WinMo 6 phones). If the phone couldn't use WiMax, and the user dictated "WiMax or Nothing", the phone couldn't reach Google. Without Google, there'd be no free aGPS for Android apps to consume.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your phone doesn't communicate with Google. Sprint has their own aGPS servers but I think you might misunderstand what their purpose is. The "a" part of aGPS means Assisted, but only assisted in the fact of giving the chip the information it needs to lock on to the true GPS signals faster based on your current location.
For example: If you used a GPS device that wasn't assisted and its known internal satellite database was out of date, it'd have to search for awhile to location any/all satellites in the sky. On the flip side, an assisted chip can use the network server to download satellite info (ids, frequencies, etc) to show which satellites are visible for your given rough location. This enables hardware lock to happen faster.
However those aGPS servers are optional since the chip has a hybrid mode of operation:
a) If you have true GPS on, obviously it uses GPS to determine your location, down to potentially 3-4 meters.
b) If the chip can't get a satellite lock or you have true GPS turned off, the chip uses multiple known tower locations in combination to triangulate your location (based on signal strength to known towers). The fewer the towers it has access to, the less and less accurate your known location becomes. This works even with 3G and 4G disabled because it transmits the data over 1xRTT (you can easily test this in Google Maps).
In the second situation (b), I've seen where tower triangulation has narrowed my location down to 100 meters. I've also seen where it can't get a lock on multiple towers reliably such that the chip puts my "center" location as the actual location of the tower with an accuracy rating of 2000 meters. This is what Pixelpop is mentioning above about accuracy.
merak69 said:
Your phone doesn't communicate with Google. Sprint has their own aGPS servers but I think you might misunderstand what their purpose is. The "a" part of aGPS means Assisted, but only assisted in the fact of giving the chip the information it needs to lock on to the true GPS signals faster based on your current location.
For example: If you used a GPS device that wasn't assisted and its known internal satellite database was out of date, it'd have to search for awhile to location any/all satellites in the sky. On the flip side, an assisted chip can use the network server to download satellite info (ids, frequencies, etc) to show which satellites are visible for your given rough location. This enables hardware lock to happen faster.
However those aGPS servers are optional since the chip has a hybrid mode of operation:
a) If you have true GPS on, obviously it uses GPS to determine your location, down to potentially 3-4 meters.
b) If the chip can't get a satellite lock or you have true GPS turned off, the chip uses multiple known tower locations in combination to triangulate your location (based on signal strength to known towers). The fewer the towers it has access to, the less and less accurate your known location becomes. This works even with 3G and 4G disabled because it transmits the data over 1xRTT (you can easily test this in Google Maps).
In the second situation (b), I've seen where tower triangulation has narrowed my location down to 100 meters. I've also seen where it can't get a lock on multiple towers reliably such that the chip puts my "center" location as the actual location of the tower with an accuracy rating of 2000 meters. This is what Pixelpop is mentioning above about accuracy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're correct that aGPS doesn't go through Google. It's presumably handled by the radio and Android is never aware of it at all.
Cell tower location/triangulation is different however. The OP is correct that it does go through Google, as the US CDMA carriers are totally unwilling to allow outside access to this information like GSM carriers do. Google built and maintains their own database of tower info, and that is what populates your rough location in Android. It is not aGPS data from Sprint's servers that is allowing that.
You want a hack? Well use the last known position, if it's historical then post a message "wtf turn on location services, if you want picture phone to work".
The app may not work but it won't crash as it has a location. More so it blames the user. lol
Post a little line to the location service enable semaphore, "who turned off the lights?"
You can get location assisted position from Wi-Max just like you can get it off Wi-Fi. As far as I know there is no app to disable Mobile Network Location on demand. If your having issues with it than users are going in and disabling it by hand through the settings. The problem probably is that 90% of the know it all bloggers advise to disable network position because they think it does something for battery life.
I'm also willing to bet good money that Google is handling the network location. Why else would they have a location server(supl.google.com). Only to let Nokia users use it?
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
I've noticed that there are areas where the GPS doesn't work, even outside with no sky obstacles. One of them is on 113 st. between Broadway and Amsterdam avenue (NYC), right next to a building tagged "Cell Motion Laboratories." I've been there twice since I have EVO and the GPS is off like 10 buildings when I'm in the building next door. From outside, it just looks like any other Columbia University residence.
(Yes, my location settings were enabled and GPS was on).
ZIP 10027.
I just searched that lab, and it has nothing to do with cellphones, but with real cells (biological lab for kids, I think).
bedoig said:
You're correct that aGPS doesn't go through Google. It's presumably handled by the radio and Android is never aware of it at all.
Cell tower location/triangulation is different however. The OP is correct that it does go through Google, as the US CDMA carriers are totally unwilling to allow outside access to this information like GSM carriers do. Google built and maintains their own database of tower info, and that is what populates your rough location in Android. It is not aGPS data from Sprint's servers that is allowing that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you are talking about for triangulation is software level functionality part of Google Maps and Google Maps only and yes it contacts their servers to try and guess where you are. Google does build out their own "database of tower info" just like they collect all sorts of other statistical information (you agree to this when you turn on location services), but part of the aGPS standard is that every cell phone tower, GSM or CDMA, transmits its coordinates to your handset.
What I'm talking about is all strictly in the hardware, but perhaps the word "triangulation" was the incorrect choice of word when talking about aGPS, however it is similar... The aGPS functionality in our phones is tightly integrated into the radio chip (Qualcomm RTR6500 CDMA2000) and this chip does not need to contact Google or Sprint to determine your rough location from a tower (turn off all internet access and you'll see what I mean). It can contact Sprints servers through the network (when it is able) to further plot your location based on the data transmitted to/from the aGPS server.
When you first use the EVO, there is a screen that asks if you want to share anonymous location data. That setting is also tied to network-based location services. That is, if you disable anonymous location sharing, it also disables NBLS entirely. You can thank either Google or HTC (not sure which) for their greed on that one.
I just checked and mine was set to off. not sure what sets it to that as I never touch that setting.
Just adding my 2 cents.
Tonight I noticed a pattern on my LG Optimus T running CM7 2.3.5.
If I disable "use wireless networks" under location and the GPS comes up to find my signal (I assume Google Latitude was calling for it even though it was backgrounded?????) it flashes super fast. I'm talking 12-15x a second. It's far faster than the searching for GPS icon we're all used to seeing.
If I re-enable "use wireless networks" it's instantly fine. If I disable it, it goes back to flashing.
I even signed out of Latitude to make sure it wasn't Latitude causing it to act up, but it did the same thing in both scenarios.
What could be causing this? I tried rebooting it, powering off and pulling the battery, etc. Any ideas?
Well, some new findings, and some new questions.
I have no idea what was causing the issue. Someone suggested I may have several GPS apps at once trying to get a grip on my location. I'm not sure what exactly happened but I ended up pulling a recovery from 10 days ago when I backed it up and it took care of the issue.
Moving along... I'm reading that "use wireless networks" helps the GPS antenna to find my location significantly faster since it can hone in on the area instead of the entire globe. Okay, fine. But I noticed something today. Previously I noticed that Google Latitude was wildly inaccurate. Further research after driving up and down the east coast reveals that Google Latitude (using only cell tower triangulation) is actually pretty damn accurate. In fact, it's always triangulated me within 2.5 miles of my location.
Here's the curve ball. Today I had wifi enabled. On a hunch, I opened Latitude. It said I was in Mineola, New York. Uh. No. I'm definitely in the very very southern most area of Pennsylvania you can get (Maryland border is a mere 5 minute bike ride away). I disable wifi, back in PA. I enable wifi, back in New York.
That said, it's obvious my wifi is throwing off the accuracy of Latitude. Personally I can't even find use with Latitude since I'm ALWAYS on wifi with work. Always. There are several buildings many miles apart I could be at, and since I'm always on wifi, the use of this app is really tanked if my wifi is going to throw off co-workers from knowing where I truly am. And this isn't Latitude's fault from what I can tell... something is goofed up in the database (whoever's database it is) that signifies my current wifi = New York when it should have been Pennsylvania, clearly.
So here's my next question - is it possible to separate wifi vs mobile tower triangulation? I noticed on my Android (Optimus T running CM7 2.3.5) that it specifically says:
Use Wireless Networks
Location determined by Wi-Fi and/or mobile networks
Keyword being... "or"...
Any ideas??
Anybody? No dice?
So if you are walking around in public with wifi enabled - you are allowing stores to collect data such as how often and how long you are in their stores.
SOURCE
Wow that's kinda scary. Nice find, thank you.
Why is the right door always locked?
I don't find this nearly as unnerving as the NSA tracking me; if I don't like it, I can take my money elsewhere. We can't "opt out" from government tracking us. Retailers analyzing this data makes them more efficient; has the potential for reducing their advertising and marketing budgets, lowering their costs in one area, helps them lower prices in the long run.
erikoink said:
Retailers analyzing this data makes them more efficient; has the potential for reducing their advertising and marketing budgets, lowering their costs in one area, helps them lower prices in the long run.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that to an extent this isn't really a big deal; so Dillards knows that you spend more time shopping for men's clothing than women's shoes.. Who cares right? Problem is, will they stop there? No, they wont. We don't know what information could be (easily) collected (and sold) in the future, that is the problem. Today its "customer 74593654 spent and hour in the store total, 20 minutes in refrigerated goods, 10 minutes in the deli, and 30 minutes in canned foods". But tomorrow, it could be "John Doe who visited our store for an hour today, mostly connects to these two wifi points; they must be his home and work locations. We sell his information to our partners in those areas."
I don't really think that they're tracking (or able to track) that type of information. They're just taking advantage of the way the 802.11 discovery process works.
When a WiFi device is on and not associated with an Access Point (AP), it announces it's presence and attempts to discover a nearby AP. APs respond to these queries with their BSSID and SSID which then gets listed in your device's list of connection options. If it's a "hidden" AP, it will only respond if the discovery query includes a specific SSID. Instead of responding, all it does is log the querying devices MAC Address and timestamps it. Other APs can compare the Rx signal strength and approximate the location of the device.
As far as I know, unless and until your device actually associates with (connects to) the AP, no other communication occurs. If there are any WiFI engineers in here that know of a way to force a device to associate to an AP remotely and request it send data that it isn't configured to send, I'm willing to be corrected.
WiredPirate said:
So if you are walking around in public with wifi enabled - you are allowing stores to collect data such as how often and how long you are in their stores.
SOURCE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to bump because im honestly curious if anyone knows what kind of info they could pull from our phones through this.
erikoink said:
I don't really think that they're tracking (or able to track) that type of information. They're just taking advantage of the way the 802.11 discovery process works.
When a WiFi device is on and not associated with an Access Point (AP), it announces it's presence and attempts to discover a nearby AP. APs respond to these queries with their BSSID and SSID which then gets listed in your device's list of connection options. If it's a "hidden" AP, it will only respond if the discovery query includes a specific SSID. Instead of responding, all it does is log the querying devices MAC Address and timestamps it. Other APs can compare the Rx signal strength and approximate the location of the device.
As far as I know, unless and until your device actually associates with (connects to) the AP, no other communication occurs. If there are any WiFI engineers in here that know of a way to force a device to associate to an AP remotely and request it send data that it isn't configured to send, I'm willing to be corrected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for explaining that better.
Perhaps you connect to their free wifi, it's tempting if you want to save data or maybe you are in an area with bad reception.. Couldn't they then gather more personal information?
WiredPirate said:
Perhaps you connect to their free wifi, it's tempting if you want to save data or maybe you are in an area with bad reception.. Couldn't they then gather more personal information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See, now if you associate with (connect to) their network, that changes things. But let's explore that hypothetical:
Have you ever heard of a "captive portal"? You see them in airports, hotels, anywhere with a so-called "guest wifi network", whereupon if you connect to their network and try to go to a website, it first redirects you to a page. And this page requires you to enter a password, or answer a survey, or agree to their terms and conditions. I'm sure we've all seen these.
Let's say that part of their terms are you must download their smart phone apps as a condition of connecting to their network and allowing you to be routed onto the global internet. Lets also say that in order to install the app, you have to grant the app certain permissions. Among these reading from areas of your phone, you might not want people reading from. As you suggested in a previous post, your list of saved WiFi networks, etc. Then yes, they could start gathering additional data. In this case, it's still your choice to use their resources, you still have the choice not to. Their network, their rules.
I will say this though.. be careful of how your device is configured. I think the setting is available that tells your device to connect to any available open (unsecured) WiFi network. I would advise anyone to disable this. Once your device connects to any network, and you an IP address on said network, then something could make a connection attempt to a vulnerable/compromised device (whether that be the network owner, or another compromised or rogue device) running some kind of Trojan service that responds to certain requests without you knowing. This of course, would be illegal and if they got caught doing this then they would face a huge backlash from their customers. I doubt they'd attempt something like this.
Mac address is worse enough.
Today's data is aggregated, ALWAYS.
You can buy it you can sell it... There isn't just one source.
Cameras in the shops running track analysis and soon facial recognition, mimics and so on.
Your mac address? Your router knows it.. And so your provider has access to it. He also has your ip.
Your ip? Most websites you visit and some more tracking / advertising sites.
So, as your mac is known, data sold, we assume your owned devices are well known.
Now we don't need anything else than a WLAN to track your GPS like location.. Beside.. This is how android WLAN location service works. Did I say android? Sorry, it is an exclusive google service.
You can:
Adapt your behavior .
Use tor or i2p.
Host your own services.
Encrypt everything.
And again, adapt your behavior... Elseway no onion routing brings any advantage.
So, if you are willing to go the painful road, opt out of most things.. You can't opt out of your phone providers data collection, if you still want a mobile phone.
But still... ANY data reduction is the right way.
The data is and will be more and more widely used, aggregated and abused.
It is time to realize that there won't be any freedom in the modern world - this IS the new world order.
Forgot one freedom: you are free to be a consumer and a product.
And for people arguing with laws... Laws can and will be changed... In the name of safety.
Sent from mobile.