Database Info

Google Maps without any data plan/GPS

Just like it's in the iPhone. The GMaps app downloads a certain map area, and then using cell phone triangulation, pin points the location of the phone, and then gives directions etc.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking)
Is such a thing possible on Windows Mobile? It should be, I feel, because there's no special hardware required for it.
GMaps for WinMo, *does* pin point point almost the exact location, but if the data/wifi connection is cut, the map disappears.

Cell Phone Triangulation works OK in the Google Maps latest version (and earlier too) for Window Mobile. The problem is you need a data connection to download the map to the phone. Google Maps does not allow to save the map for offline use or even thru Wifi, AFAIK. For that you will need another program like Google Navigator, which I think is better than Google mobile, but VERY EXPENSIVE. There are other freeware program alternatives that allow offline map saving and usage, but I haven't tested them. Hope this helps.

dgaud007 said:
Cell Phone Triangulation works OK in the Google Maps latest version (and earlier too) for Window Mobile. The problem is you need a data connection to download the map to the phone. Google Maps does not allow to save the map for offline use or even thru Wifi, AFAIK. For that you will need another program like Google Navigator, which I think is better than Google mobile, but VERY EXPENSIVE. There are other freeware program alternatives that allow offline map saving and usage, but I haven't tested them. Hope this helps.
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Wait. So are you positive that google navigator allows this? Download map once and then browse on it offline while your position is calculated using triangulation...?. Also what freewares are you talking about?

Have to tried Bing Maps app for WinMo ? I have got the directions when there's wifi and it caches the whole route. I once drove from Atlanta to Charlotte...only thing you have to do to kinda force it to cache by going over the entire route when you have finished setting up the directions from point A to B...

I downloaded the trial version of Google Navigator. I cannot figure out how to use it! With my WiFi connected, I tried zooming in, and it just doesn't load the map!

It should work thru wifi and cell phone triangulation, unless the demo is crippled or something. I know I used it in Buenos Aires. However, you may want to disregard Google Navigator since it looks like they are no longer in business. Some time ago I also tried these free alternatives, but it was a pain to download the maps,
MGMaps
Terracrosser

Yes, it's showing my location alright, with a Blue dot. But after that it doesn't load anything.
Do those other two apps support cell phone triangulation?

Just researched a bit, they don't.
So is there *no* way I can do what I'm trying to do? Sounds absurd! Why do iPhone users get cache supported GMaps and we dont?

great
that would be great, tell me how this works? or isn't it possible?
thanks

No help? There has to be a way!

If you have a program which will store the maps, (someone mentioned MGMaps and Terracrosser), then you can use cell tower triangulation with VirtualGPS.

EDIT: Nope. It is asking for internet connection for GSM Triangulation; for some reason. I don't understand why would Internet be required for *GSM* Cellular tower Triangulation.

cyanide911 said:
EDIT: Nope. It is asking for internet connection for GSM Triangulation; for some reason. I don't understand why would Internet be required for *GSM* Cellular tower Triangulation.
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because it needs to query a database of cell towers, that database is on the internet. either buy an unlimited data plan or don't bother I think all methods of finding location use a data connection apart from gps. gsm location is very inacurate anyway and they dont triangulate they just assume your position from the 1 cell tower you are connected to
also just a note the iphone uses skyhook to determin location when its not using gps so even if it does dowload the maps before hand it still needs to use a dataconnection if it finds a new access point or cell tower.

Okay, I understand. But then, even though such an app doesn't exist; it must be possible. Considering the app downloads the Map and cellular tower data for a particular area that we select. Then, it will not need any kind of interaction with an other server.
Also, it *is* triangulation. And it is accurate if you live in an urban area.

cyanide911 said:
Okay, I understand. But then, even though such an app doesn't exist; it must be possible. Considering the app downloads the Map and cellular tower data for a particular area that we select. Then, it will not need any kind of interaction with an other server.
Also, it *is* triangulation. And it is accurate if you live in an urban area.
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Click to collapse
Yes it would be possible if it downloaded map and cell tower data.
Got any proof about it being triangulation? From what I understand although it is possible for a phone to connect to more than one cell tower wm at least has no managed or native functions which give you access to their cell ids.
Im not 100% if google mobile maps uses wifi but if it does that is triangulation if enough access points can be seen.

trace/track a GSM mobile telephones location

Hi All,
I know it is possibile to trace/track a GSM mobile telephones location all over the world.
I also know some compaines does this for chargeable service.
I am VERY interested in getting this for free! (I bet you are also).
Anyone know how to do this without empty our pockets??
Thanks,

in fact, i have the same interest.

who wouldnt love to know how to do this?

The only information you can get out of your own phone, is the ID of the basestation it is attached to. This is held in a register in the phone internals that can be read via the RIL interface.
It is also stored in the SIM. If the phone is totally powered off it will attempt to connect to the last known good base station on power on. (Quicker than sniffing around all available frequences for an suitable station.)
While a change of basestation could be detected by software running on a phone, only the Telco's database has the location of all active phones, so they can inform the basestation to contact your phone if there is an incoming call or data.
This data is theirs and theirs alone. It is valuable and confidential, hence the charge for any use of it.
In short all you can find out from your phone is where it is. But you know that anyway.

Erm... I just wrote this and then I realized that you want to track the device via GSM and not GPS. This will only work with GPS (can be activated in the background), sorry.
Just look for an application that allows you to track your device if its stolen. Some of the programs still work after changing simcard (which is not really interesting if it did not get stolen in the first place...). If everything is set up, you can easily receive a sms with the current location (you need to activate the programm by sending a sms).
If you need to know the exact position of the device like every second, you can use a jogging-trainer which logs the speed etc. But this will only store the positions on the device (you can upload them to your computer, but this can probably not be done via any wireless connection.
My english is not the best, I am sorry. But I am sure you're gonna understand everything ;D And no, I don't know any programs name because I don't use them.
XphX

Stephj, are You talking about GSM or CDMA? Because for GSM I know for sure that the Telco knows a bit more - at least it is possible to triangulate the user's approximate position using three or more base stations (and probably user's signal strength for each base station too). So the DB should hold more info about the base stations available to user's current position, as for example "ready to go base stations" or something like that.

For tracking the phone, you can try GLympse or LookOut, Look out is better if you loos your phone, it synchronize with their website, and can see the location on the phone anywhere in the world, even can delete your data from your web account on look out.

[Q] Samsung Galaxy S - creating unsecured wireless AP. Strange reasons!

Hi all - I hope this is the best forum for this thread as I wasn't sure which one at first.
Essentially, I had my Galaxy S stolen a few weeks back. I bought a replacement (Android is fantastic) and found that the stolen phone is still phoning home it's location to Latitude. My provider has banned the phone from the networks in Finland by the IMEI, so it's obviously doing do by WiFi. I have Latitude History enabled ("https-www-google-com-latitude-apps-history-view" for those who are interested, link malformed as I can't post them yet!) so i've a reasonable history of where it has been calling home from.
As far as the history goes, I am aware that geolocated WiFI hotspots Google uses aren't always accurate especially with hotspots that have moved or are mobile so I can't exactly go door knocking immediately.
Now, I am 99% sure of who stole the phone. I don't know him personally however. I know from "my network" that he lives in a specific area of Pori (city near here) called Ulvila, and Latitude has consistently reported a fixed location in Ulvila at a specific address. I presume that since the location is unmoving, it's a previously geolocated network hotspot. The surnames on the postboxes don't name him specifically though....perhaps he's moved from there since it was snagged, is visiting there or perhaps lives with someone with a different surname?
He works in a bar here in Luvia, and I suspect that he carries it around with him. Given that the phone is latching onto unsecured networks in range and dialling home to Latitude, I am thinking that setting up an unsecured wireless access point with my replacement Galaxy S would allow me to nail him by sitting in the car park of the bar waiting for the stolen phone to latch on....
Considering this lowlife stole my phone (and denied it to my face a while back) I'm kind of enjoying this lofi detective game, because let's face it....doing this through tech is fun!
The other option would be to drag a laptop, wireless router and 240v/12v inverter there to create an access point, but that's just not as fun as doing it with something smaller than a CD case is it?
Apologies for length. I'm hoping that a positive result from this will create a great anecdote for future use.
Oh, and having two Galaxy S's.

Cheap GPS solution to track a shuttle bus

Hey folks,
So, I was looking for a cheap solution to track a vehicle. All I need pretty much is updates on the location of the vehicle in Long/Lat every 30 sec or so and a way to read out that information to display it on GMaps.
Any ideas where to start? I mean, basically it's what every smart phone does these days and it wouldn't be hard to create a website that displays the map and the location. It's what Google's Latitude did, just one way. I also looked at things like the app Glympse, which would be one way to go.
But I was wondering if there are dedicated options to run this service. It doesn't need to be a smart phone, I just assume that dedicated GPS units will have better greater accuracy and might be cheaper, because I don't need the other phone functions.
Thanks guys!

Google "fpv gps". They do everything you just said, but idk the range
Sent from my SPH-D710 by using the force

If that doesn't work I have some ninja that I can put you in touch with.

Also check out APRS (Automatic Packet Reporting System) used by HAM Radio Operators like my self.
APRS will take data from GPS/GLONASS and send it via VHF (normally but you can do it in any frequency or over the internet). That gets picked up by a repeater that either sends it further away or to an Internet gate. You can track different callsigns here: http://aprs.fi/
You can check the position from your Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/...wxLDEsImRlLmdvZGRjaGVuLmFuZHJvaWQueC5hcHJzIl0.
You can send messages to others.
There even is an app that takes your GPS data, callsign and sends it via internet to a VHF repeater. So no need for an actual radio. https://play.google.com/store/apps/...t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsIm9yZy5hcHJzZHJvaWQuYXBwIl0.
There is a lot of stuff you can do with this, you can send telemetry data, some people send Weather information, messages, status of your house or car.
I did a project at the University for the minibaja car to take the temp of the engine and RPMs to send it with the position, speed, altitude and direction of the car.
If you want to have coverage even when there is no cellphone reception then I recommend using a VHF radio.
The only thing you really need is a HAM Radio license which is easy and cheap to get. If interested let me know and I'll put you in contact with your nearest HAM Club/Association and they will help you out get your license and APRS going.
You can find more info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Packet_Reporting_System
http://www.aprs.org/
http://www.tapr.org/
Hope it helps.
- XE1YAA

first of all thanks for the ideas guys!
Zainiak said:
Google "fpv gps". They do everything you just said, but idk the range
Sent from my SPH-D710 by using the force
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I looked into it, most of it was used for quad copters. Not really sure, how to put it together to get the information transmitted (GSM?)
MissionImprobable said:
If that doesn't work I have some ninja that I can put you in touch with.
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Click to collapse
hey, that would be great - just to explore a few options. Thanks!
alphinux said:
Also check out APRS (Automatic Packet Reporting System) used by HAM Radio Operators like my self.
APRS will take data from GPS/GLONASS and send it via VHF (normally but you can do it in any frequency or over the internet). That gets picked up by a repeater that either sends it further away or to an Internet gate. You can track different callsigns here: http://aprs.fi/
You can check the position from your Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/...wxLDEsImRlLmdvZGRjaGVuLmFuZHJvaWQueC5hcHJzIl0.
You can send messages to others.
There even is an app that takes your GPS data, callsign and sends it via internet to a VHF repeater. So no need for an actual radio. https://play.google.com/store/apps/...t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsIm9yZy5hcHJzZHJvaWQuYXBwIl0.
There is a lot of stuff you can do with this, you can send telemetry data, some people send Weather information, messages, status of your house or car.
I did a project at the University for the minibaja car to take the temp of the engine and RPMs to send it with the position, speed, altitude and direction of the car.
If you want to have coverage even when there is no cellphone reception then I recommend using a VHF radio.
The only thing you really need is a HAM Radio license which is easy and cheap to get. If interested let me know and I'll put you in contact with your nearest HAM Club/Association and they will help you out get your license and APRS going.
You can find more info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Packet_Reporting_System
http://www.aprs.org/
http://www.tapr.org/
Hope it helps.
- XE1YAA
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Click to collapse
This is great! I read through the wiki and a couple other pages. So far this looks really promising. How is the pricing tho? I looked at a few systems, but I feel like they were over the top having a bunch of features I don't really need. I think it is great that it doesn't need to rely on cell phone networks, because we are in a mountainous area.
So if I understand it correctly, the APRS unit would be connected to a GPS unit, reads the location data and sends it out to a station that is connected to the internet to publish the data right?

PSA: Stores using new tech to track us via our phone's wifi

So if you are walking around in public with wifi enabled - you are allowing stores to collect data such as how often and how long you are in their stores.
SOURCE

Wow that's kinda scary. Nice find, thank you.
Why is the right door always locked?

I don't find this nearly as unnerving as the NSA tracking me; if I don't like it, I can take my money elsewhere. We can't "opt out" from government tracking us. Retailers analyzing this data makes them more efficient; has the potential for reducing their advertising and marketing budgets, lowering their costs in one area, helps them lower prices in the long run.

erikoink said:
Retailers analyzing this data makes them more efficient; has the potential for reducing their advertising and marketing budgets, lowering their costs in one area, helps them lower prices in the long run.
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I agree that to an extent this isn't really a big deal; so Dillards knows that you spend more time shopping for men's clothing than women's shoes.. Who cares right? Problem is, will they stop there? No, they wont. We don't know what information could be (easily) collected (and sold) in the future, that is the problem. Today its "customer 74593654 spent and hour in the store total, 20 minutes in refrigerated goods, 10 minutes in the deli, and 30 minutes in canned foods". But tomorrow, it could be "John Doe who visited our store for an hour today, mostly connects to these two wifi points; they must be his home and work locations. We sell his information to our partners in those areas."

I don't really think that they're tracking (or able to track) that type of information. They're just taking advantage of the way the 802.11 discovery process works.
When a WiFi device is on and not associated with an Access Point (AP), it announces it's presence and attempts to discover a nearby AP. APs respond to these queries with their BSSID and SSID which then gets listed in your device's list of connection options. If it's a "hidden" AP, it will only respond if the discovery query includes a specific SSID. Instead of responding, all it does is log the querying devices MAC Address and timestamps it. Other APs can compare the Rx signal strength and approximate the location of the device.
As far as I know, unless and until your device actually associates with (connects to) the AP, no other communication occurs. If there are any WiFI engineers in here that know of a way to force a device to associate to an AP remotely and request it send data that it isn't configured to send, I'm willing to be corrected.

WiredPirate said:
So if you are walking around in public with wifi enabled - you are allowing stores to collect data such as how often and how long you are in their stores.
SOURCE
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I'd like to bump because im honestly curious if anyone knows what kind of info they could pull from our phones through this.

erikoink said:
I don't really think that they're tracking (or able to track) that type of information. They're just taking advantage of the way the 802.11 discovery process works.
When a WiFi device is on and not associated with an Access Point (AP), it announces it's presence and attempts to discover a nearby AP. APs respond to these queries with their BSSID and SSID which then gets listed in your device's list of connection options. If it's a "hidden" AP, it will only respond if the discovery query includes a specific SSID. Instead of responding, all it does is log the querying devices MAC Address and timestamps it. Other APs can compare the Rx signal strength and approximate the location of the device.
As far as I know, unless and until your device actually associates with (connects to) the AP, no other communication occurs. If there are any WiFI engineers in here that know of a way to force a device to associate to an AP remotely and request it send data that it isn't configured to send, I'm willing to be corrected.
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Click to collapse
Thank you for explaining that better.
Perhaps you connect to their free wifi, it's tempting if you want to save data or maybe you are in an area with bad reception.. Couldn't they then gather more personal information?

WiredPirate said:
Perhaps you connect to their free wifi, it's tempting if you want to save data or maybe you are in an area with bad reception.. Couldn't they then gather more personal information?
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Click to collapse
See, now if you associate with (connect to) their network, that changes things. But let's explore that hypothetical:
Have you ever heard of a "captive portal"? You see them in airports, hotels, anywhere with a so-called "guest wifi network", whereupon if you connect to their network and try to go to a website, it first redirects you to a page. And this page requires you to enter a password, or answer a survey, or agree to their terms and conditions. I'm sure we've all seen these.
Let's say that part of their terms are you must download their smart phone apps as a condition of connecting to their network and allowing you to be routed onto the global internet. Lets also say that in order to install the app, you have to grant the app certain permissions. Among these reading from areas of your phone, you might not want people reading from. As you suggested in a previous post, your list of saved WiFi networks, etc. Then yes, they could start gathering additional data. In this case, it's still your choice to use their resources, you still have the choice not to. Their network, their rules.
I will say this though.. be careful of how your device is configured. I think the setting is available that tells your device to connect to any available open (unsecured) WiFi network. I would advise anyone to disable this. Once your device connects to any network, and you an IP address on said network, then something could make a connection attempt to a vulnerable/compromised device (whether that be the network owner, or another compromised or rogue device) running some kind of Trojan service that responds to certain requests without you knowing. This of course, would be illegal and if they got caught doing this then they would face a huge backlash from their customers. I doubt they'd attempt something like this.

Mac address is worse enough.
Today's data is aggregated, ALWAYS.
You can buy it you can sell it... There isn't just one source.
Cameras in the shops running track analysis and soon facial recognition, mimics and so on.
Your mac address? Your router knows it.. And so your provider has access to it. He also has your ip.
Your ip? Most websites you visit and some more tracking / advertising sites.
So, as your mac is known, data sold, we assume your owned devices are well known.
Now we don't need anything else than a WLAN to track your GPS like location.. Beside.. This is how android WLAN location service works. Did I say android? Sorry, it is an exclusive google service.
You can:
Adapt your behavior .
Use tor or i2p.
Host your own services.
Encrypt everything.
And again, adapt your behavior... Elseway no onion routing brings any advantage.
So, if you are willing to go the painful road, opt out of most things.. You can't opt out of your phone providers data collection, if you still want a mobile phone.
But still... ANY data reduction is the right way.
The data is and will be more and more widely used, aggregated and abused.
It is time to realize that there won't be any freedom in the modern world - this IS the new world order.
Forgot one freedom: you are free to be a consumer and a product.
And for people arguing with laws... Laws can and will be changed... In the name of safety.
Sent from mobile.