Related
This topic has been floating around the forums for a long time now. For as long as chefs been cooking, they’ve been trying to cook their “perfect rom.” Well…unfortunately they can’t do it by themselves. They need some help from us…so this thread is for any and all feedback we may all have as users, to offer to our chefs in order to achieve our goal.
Keep in mind guys, we’re all different people, we all require different things. Let’s keep our thoughts realistic and respectful. We’re use to 3 types of roms….Full, Medium and Light (lite.) Let’s see if we can offer up a somewhat standard model and set of applications for each type of rom.
But not just apps….lets break this down to CE builds..OS tweaks…radio performance…visual preferences…..EVERYTHING!!!!
also (i know this is gonna cause an outbreak!....) if there are any outstanding issues you've been having with all coked roms across the board...feel free to mention....The more we're all aware of something the better the chance it will be addressed!
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((Results and conclusions))
-For the most part, we can all agree certain apps should not be cooked in because they're updated too often.
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((Topics and issues))
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*well i can't edit the poll...so we'll have to do this the hard way. So we have the "to be cooked or not" apps figured out. Next is the model in which the roms are produced. Like i said before...theres usually 3. Lite, Medium and full. We need to define the roll and specs of each and what they contain. Sound Off
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At the request of mr.dutty i've added a poll. Im not sure if i can do this, but i'll try to switch it up everyday with a new subject everyday or so.
* = current topic
almost was going to warn you to get some flame retardant clothing at first glance. However after reading a bit more it does not seem to be a bad idea, assuming it can be kept free from garbage. Ill put some thought and contribute what i can but not a bad idea.
A few things I look for in a cooked ROM -
Hardware keyboard performance: We're talking about a device that features a very nice full hardware keyboard, and roms should take this into account. I've encountered roms that have laggy keyboard entry, other weird keyboard entry problems, and some which work beautifully.
Careful which apps are cooked in: If an app is likely to get updated frequently, it's my opinion that it shouldn't get cooked into a rom (unless, of course, it's a PITA to install in the first place). There'd be no point cooking PointUI's Home into a ROM, as it gets updated a lot. Also, the legality of any cooked in App should be considered. For example, I'd love to see a rom that's got Opera Mini cooked in and ready to go as the default browser, which is a lot of fiddling around and hard work, rather than a rom that uses the NOT FREE Opera Mobile.
Screen Rotation Speed: Some ROMs have managed to achieve near instant screen rotation speeds, others have not. It'd be great to know what settings affect this, and cook them in.
Options: I hate Large Start Menu. I love the fact that you can easily turn it off without any side-effects. I love the fact that Quick Menu gets cooked in, but you have the option to not use it (I'm firmly in the "loving quick menu" camp though, at the moment).
Most important: Speed. I really don't feel like this device is performing quite as well as it could do. I think we could get there - I think there's still some exploring to do, and at some point there'll be a major breakthrough.
Maybe this thread is the start of all of that?
Thank you For starting this as this will alow us to find out from different individuals thier own opinions and also from different chefs as to how we can maximise the best performance out of this baby kaiser.
At the moment Im trying different stuffs
I don't know to much about this stuff, but in my last month of looking at these forums.. I think a lot of people use these
- Pocket Core Media Player
- SOme form of Registry Edit
- Task Manager (Detialed one, WTask i think it's called?)
- Pocket Screen
- Office (obviously)
- Note pad (love it)
- Touch Settings
- Query Analyzer (maybe not for everyone..)
- Slide 2 unlock (better to get that yourself probably now that I think about it)
- Schapps advanced config 1.1
- KaiserTweak
- Total Commander looks pretty usefull
- Some sort of FTP program
- I wish there was some app for linking HTC favorites in the cube to their contact record (give you option of calling,e mailing, etc, instead of a quick call)
Not very advanced stuff, but stuff I hav efound pretty usefull that i never knew about.
swtaltima said:
almost was going to warn you to get some flame retardant clothing at first glance. However after reading a bit more it does not seem to be a bad idea, assuming it can be kept free from garbage. Ill put some thought and contribute what i can but not a bad idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol no worries man. i got my suit bag unzipped and waiting!
i guess i'll give it a go....
me myself...I prefer a Full rom. but it seems very unrealistic as to what’s in a full rom or not. I’ve been talking to dutty a bit about this and he wanted me to get some ideas and get back to him….so I guess this is the place to get it all together. For those of us with a tilt…we all know how fat the shipped att rom was. But the funny thing is…it wasn’t slow at all! This is what sparked my thoughts. How about…a full rom = a bloated rom! But not bad bloated….good bloated. I’m talking about any and all those little apps we all know and love. Such as….group sms…call firewall…opermini (files provided to set as main browser…I think that should be left up to the user,) tom tom...quick menu….Live search and all other live apps, all HTC current apps and dialers….ect ect. I wanted to include slide to unlock, point ui and pocket cm…but these apps are updated too often to cook in….but non the less would be great for a full rom. I believe the cooks can find a way to make a rom like this work!
For a media rom….pretty much the rom…plus all the htc goodies we’re all used to. And the the rest of the inessentials….things like flash lite…youtube already cooked in....ect ect. It should be kept clean and nice.
A lite rom?....nothing! lol…lite roms are for those of us who like to tinker ourselves or just don’t use a damn thing on the phone…so I think it should be just the os! And call it a day.
I think we need to add a poll of some sort to vote on what apps should be included in each rom so we can observe, study and compare what individuals use in thier roms and what they dont like.
dan13l said:
A few things I look for in a cooked ROM -
Hardware keyboard performance: We're talking about a device that features a very nice full hardware keyboard, and roms should take this into account. I've encountered roms that have laggy keyboard entry, other weird keyboard entry problems, and some which work beautifully.
Careful which apps are cooked in: If an app is likely to get updated frequently, it's my opinion that it shouldn't get cooked into a rom (unless, of course, it's a PITA to install in the first place). There'd be no point cooking PointUI's Home into a ROM, as it gets updated a lot. Also, the legality of any cooked in App should be considered. For example, I'd love to see a rom that's got Opera Mini cooked in and ready to go as the default browser, which is a lot of fiddling around and hard work, rather than a rom that uses the NOT FREE Opera Mobile.
Screen Rotation Speed: Some ROMs have managed to achieve near instant screen rotation speeds, others have not. It'd be great to know what settings affect this, and cook them in.
Options: I hate Large Start Menu. I love the fact that you can easily turn it off without any side-effects. I love the fact that Quick Menu gets cooked in, but you have the option to not use it (I'm firmly in the "loving quick menu" camp though, at the moment).
Most important: Speed. I really don't feel like this device is performing quite as well as it could do. I think we could get there - I think there's still some exploring to do, and at some point there'll be a major breakthrough.
Maybe this thread is the start of all of that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
point ui makes for a good debate....the reason i would cook it in is because it comes with its own update client. so even if an older version is cooked in....or an update is available a day after the rom is cooked....you just need to go into update and that will take care of that. but i do agree with the idea of frequently updated apps should be avoided.
the screen roatation is another one....i agree. i've seen it vary from rom to rom even within dutty's camp. maybe the cooks can unite and nail that one down.
I've been using different ROMs over the last month or so and what I normally go for is the lite ROM with all the performance updates. Then I add my own apps to it. From the ROMs that have applications cooked into it I may use 80-90% of it which I find is not good for me and I think this holds true for most, if not all users. Everyone has different taste/needs.
Maybe a ROM with just the OS and performance/optimization tweaks and leave the rest up to the users. They can find the cabs for everything so why bother to cook it in. The other thing with cooking in the apps if is if the app gets an update a new ROM is needed.
Or just cook your own ROM. There's enough info within the forums to make your own ROM and include whatever apps you want.
Maybe the focus should be on optimizing the OS and leave the apps to the choice of the user.
ecltech said:
I've been using different ROMs over the last month or so and what I normally go for is the lite ROM with all the performance updates. Then I add my own apps to it. From the ROMs that have applications cooked into it I may use 80-90% of it which I find is not good for me and I think this holds true for most, if not all users. Everyone has different taste/needs.
I think make a ROM with just the OS and performance tweaks and leave the rest up to the users. They can find the cabs for everything so why bother to cook it in. The other thing with cooking in the apps if is if the app gets an update a new ROM is needed.
Or just cook your own ROM. There's enough info within the forums to make your own ROM and include whatever apps you want.
Maybe the focus should be on optimizing the OS and leave the apps to the choice of the user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cooked a lot of roms but always stick with the full rom, Reason is i could take out 50mb of programs out of a rom and This doesnt give me that equvalent space and also performance sometimes are un-stable, thats my own opinion.
I think there is a halfway line with how much goodies you can install in a rom to please most people
ecltech said:
I've been using different ROMs over the last month or so and what I normally go for is the lite ROM with all the performance updates. Then I add my own apps to it. From the ROMs that have applications cooked into it I may use 80-90% of it which I find is not good for me and I think this holds true for most, if not all users. Everyone has different taste/needs.
Maybe a ROM with just the OS and performance/optimization tweaks and leave the rest up to the users. They can find the cabs for everything so why bother to cook it in. The other thing with cooking in the apps if is if the app gets an update a new ROM is needed.
Or just cook your own ROM. There's enough info within the forums to make your own ROM and include whatever apps you want.
Maybe the focus should be on optimizing the OS and leave the apps to the choice of the user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all good points...i tend to agree with you. but lets not forget we're dealing with people who dont know how to hard slp...refuse to read through 30 pages of posts or even use teh search feature. so a full features rom will always be needed.
rzanology said:
all good points...i tend to agree with you. but lets not forget we're dealing with people who dont know how to hard slp...refuse to read through 30 pages of posts or even use teh search feature. so a full features rom will always be needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true. For a full featured ROM I think a based ROM might be better versus cooking in many apps. Here's a list that I think can be a good starting point for a base ROM. Some utilities, tweaks, visuals, etc. The rest can be managed by the user.
- Advanced Config
- GPS Test
- HTC Album
- HTC Camera (new version)
- NotePad
- Registry Editor
- Pocket RAR
- Office w/OneNote
- PDF Viewer
- psShutXP
- QuickGPS
- Total Commander
- NetCF 3.5
- ClearTemp
- KaiserTweak
ecltech said:
This is true. For a full featured ROM I think a based ROM might be better versus cooking in many apps. Here's a list that I think can be a good starting point for a base ROM. Some utilities, tweaks, visuals, etc. The rest can be managed by the user.
- Advanced Config
- GPS Test
- HTC Album
- HTC Camera (new version)
- NotePad
- Registry Editor
- Pocket RAR
- Office w/OneNote
- PDF Viewer
- psShutXP
- QuickGPS
- Total Commander
- NetCF 3.5
- ClearTemp
- KaiserTweak
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed. can we all agree this should be a common app set?
rzanology said:
agreed. can we all agree this should be a common app set?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats almost what I got apart from pdf viewer which i left out for user preference with adobe reader
the most popular apps don't have to be cooked into a ROM. every ROM can be a light or medium with everything else added as shared backup files using Sprite or SPB Backup. in another thread, some folks expressed reservations about my idea of Backup Install Packs, but i still think it could work. and no one would be forced to use them. it's something at least worth trying.
after flashing a new ROM, the ROM cooker or someone else could install demo versions of the most popular apps (HTC apps, Resco, SPB, SBSH, Opera, Palm Messaging, Kaiser Tweak, TCPMP and the plugins, etc.) onto their devices. They can then make a backup of their devices and make that backup available to other users. Then if someone installs the identical ROM, they could simply install the entire backup of those applications to their own devices. Users can keep the apps they want and register them with their own serials. They could then uninstall the rest.
that would be my idea. keep all ROMs medium and lite and let users customize them to full status with backup install packs.
PointUI drove me nuts, was nice and pretty, but in the way. Then again, I don't like the Cube either. Perhaps if I set up the cube I'd use it more, mainly for the contacts though - I don't use WMP or HTC's, I use TCPMP.'
I love the apps Dutty has, especially WKTask with its launcher and battery bar, quickmenu is awesome (without the large setting).
PocketCM has asked that it NOT be cooked in so...
IMHO a ROM should be usable for as much user as possible.
For one person S2U2 is a must-have application, but others just don't like it.
So a stable, fast and clean ROM should be the best for everyone.
Everyone can add his favorite apps, or don't add apps if you don't like them!
Just my opinion. (Of course I always go for the LITE variant, cause I just don't use a lot of apps)
What I would like to see:
Pretty much the default set of apps and tools in the stock ROM. Some of general use like pocketrar could be integrated but not much more.
Larger page pool.
What I absoltely don't want to see:
Too many UI changes, trial versions, bloated battery status apps and such.
Basically I just want the latest radio, OS and default apps all in one.
Stuff that's not likely to get upgrades for quite some time like the flash player and flash lite could preferebly be integrated but other than that I don't like too much tweaking, I just want the latest versions of the default stuff and then I do my own modifications and tweaks from there.
thanks for setting this up!! But i agree should install from CABs
No, They're updated too often to even think about cooking into the rom!
We need 1 stable EMPTY ROM. And cabs what have been edited for working on the 1 stable empty rom.
Impressions from HTC Cruise - Windows Mobile
Hello All,
I have been relatively new here, but I thought I could contribute in the forums by posting my (unbiased) views about HTC Cruise here, hoping other people may find them useful. I am a software developer, so although I do not have an experience with hi-tech PDAs and smartphones, (never owned such a device before), I am fine with the technicalities of such devices.
My everyday phone was a simple sony ericson K510i . What had always annoyed me was that in most "simple" phones, it was quite hard to control the phone via my PC, do backups, backup contacts, SMSes, etc. My sony was good, I had found "MYPhoneExplorer" which pretty much did all those things for my phone. The screen was little bit outdated in terms of resolution, but I did not mind much.
And then came iPhone (which I never owned). I was impressed by its design, usability and user friendliness. I also liked the idea of having WiFi on it. I was close to buying that phone and using one of the available tools to unlock it, (noway I would pay for a contract - I am UK based). My brother who is into mobiles and gadgets more than I am, commented on the fact that iPhone is an "old" generation phone in terms of phone technologies and overpriced. I soon realised it was quite overpriced and started looking at alternatives. I was happy to see HTC would release a really cool phone, which I could get as my Christmas gift (yes, dream on, I had my eyes on it since November and managed to get it this February)...
So, what are my impressions so far?
I dare to say, quite mixed...
On the one hand this device is really wicked and cool! It has all the things I had always liked and needed in a single device. Packing a GPS, a radio, 3G, WiFi in a nice package is just amazing. I can now listen to music, watch videos, find my way around using GPS and have a nice PDA. These are really cool things! No need to have my pockets filled with separate devices...
On the other hand, this phone costed me little bit less than 400 pounds. One can argue you can get a laptop for that price, but then again, a laptop is not a phone. The video issues has not been much of an issue for me, I encode my videos at QVGA and all is well. However, I do get *very* upset when I realise that there is hidden potential in the hardware platform which has not been utilised. What I found bad straight from the moment i used it, is that when i press the "phone-call" hard button, there really is a lag when drawing the blue rectangle above the dialpad, (I am talking about the area which shows the names of your contacts as you type the numbers below.) I mean, come on, so much CPU power, and I can see the blue area being drawn? The other things is that if a couple of applications are running, then the phone does not seem to be operating so smoothly. Again, in order to be fair, it is still very usable. However, as things stand now in the market, in terms of specifications this phone is easily on the upper part, so in my opinion it should be fast, not just "very usable".
My other bit of criticism is probably related to Windows rather than HTC cruise. I find this OS quite interesting on the device, there is a huge applications' base and the things that are missing can be coded by talented people. However, I find the platform a little bit of a pain to use in a pure phone context. Why do i have to check an option everytime I want to get back a delivery report for my SMS? Why do I have to hack the registry to make this permanent? I set a wallpaper in my phone, then I set its transparency, then I realise it is hidden by the today plugin, which I can of course disable. If I disable it I loose certain features which are accessible straight away. I can of course get a new plugin that matchs my needs. Why is it so hard to have tabs with incoming/outgoing/missed calls? This is a feature that phones that cost 10 times less have. Of course Windows 6.1 has this, but then I would have to "install" a new ROM. Simple question: Why do I have to do these things? Why dont' they get it right from the beginning? Don't get me wrong, I am a technology enthusiast and I am sure I will manage to set up the phone the way I want. A number of users out there will do the same thing. However, is this platform one that non-enthusiasts would find user-friendly?
Look at all those skins and modding. Really cool. And the moment you press a button on your really cool new Today plugin, an ungly Windows application will pop up.
I hope that my criticism will be received well here! I like the phone, Windows is cool on it, but I think Microsoft has quite some way to go in order to make their platform really simple to use and user-friendly (think iPhone for example, my parents could use that, but I am quite sure if I show them my phone, they will not know how to make a a phonecall with it!)
In many ways some requirements are contradictory: Being user-friendly means you may have to hide settings, having your platform run on a variety of hardware means you cut corners here and there. Hopefully Microsoft will get it right with version 7 and 8, screenshots look quite good.
As for HTC... They lost a little bit of their credibility with a couple of issues for me. First the sound issue with the french rom which was initially denied and then fixed by people in this forum, then of course the drivers issue. I intend to make good use of this cool phone and customise it to my needs, it just takes time.
For your information, I find these applications useful:
Coreplayer (obviously!)
TouchPal keyboard works good for me
WKTask (and get rid off that default task switcher)
MyMobiler installs on your PC and a little "daemon-service" on your phone, (which you can disable). Then it allows you to control your phone from your desktop.
PocketCM did not particularly appeal to me, so I removed it
FunContact was cool, and loved it. Unfortunately, two things were not so good:
a) Splash screen and loading time
b) sometimes it made my phone freeze
Thanks for reading this (long) post,
Michael
Good post...Here are my impressions as well.
I used to carry a Palm Tx and a Motorala SLVR. I have been looking for the most ideal device to "do it all", PDA, phone (quad band gsm, tri band umts), wifi, and gps. There was nothing realy that appealing on the market until I read about the HTC Touch Cruise.
I read about people's complaints about the "driver" issues and hardware acceleration, and decided to take the risk and bought the phone from a gsm seller online. The phone was unbranded and did not have any stupid carrier proprietary software.
For the most part, I am very happy with the Touch Cruise. I have dumped the palm pda and the slvr, and have not looked back.
I just spent the last 2 weeks traveling to UK (London), Germany (Frankfurt), and Italy (Padova). As a mobile phone, the Touch Cruise functioned flawlessly and had 3G connections where they were available. Couldn't have asked for better features out of a "world" phone.
The TomTom GPS also ran quite well (Western Europe maps). Had to drive alot in Frankfurt and never got lost. Even traffic reports were right on the money.
As for a PDA, it blows the Palm syncing and calendar features out of the water. I used to be a Palm pilot only person, but Palm has become a dinasaur in their attutude to features and interface. The pocket pc has in my opinion surpassed them.
As a portable media device, it does kind of ok . Core Media Player is a must install, microsoft's media players still suck and are not usable and dont support all codecs. This device is not really ideal for video in my opinion. You have to re-encode videos to QVGA for ppc level quality, then video will play fine. You cant simply take a wmv file and dump it on the device to view, it wont work. As for music/mp3's, it works great. I got on a 10 hour flight from UK to US, and used it play music and games, and still had 40% battery charge left over and used an hour of GPS on the way home, with 20% left over.
In all fairness, the HTC could run a little faster, but I blame Microsoft and HTC for hogging up the cpu and not using hardware acceleration.
Since media (video) is not high on my list of required features, I am quite happy with the HTC Touch Cruise.
darkazally, I tend to agree with you really...
I guess if one did not have such a device before or had a really old one, then HTC Cruise is really super. On the other hand I can see certain people's frustration with Cruise. It is mostly people who owned 3 or 4 PDAs before and were probably expecting to be blown away by its specs; I kind of sypathise with them....
I read in an article written by someone at Microsoft, that companies tend to overload Windows with their own propriatory software and then the whole experience goes downwards. He mentioned that for the next versions of windows mobile, they intend to post stricter requirements just because of this situation.
As I also read in these forums, people who got their devices from O2 (just to mention a single company), seem to have more issues with HTC's performance...
I enjoy using the phone everyday and I am in the process of customising it to my needs, though it takes some time!
Uhhh mymobiler is amazing thanks for posting that! That is frickin sweet!
Great review, I tend to agree.
As far as PIM Management, I came from using two devices, a slim panasonic phone and a Xircom Rex 6000 PDA in the early part of this decade (circa 2001), like you I converged them into a Sony Ericsson phone (T610>T616) which had limited capabilities and lacked a lot of features my Rex had. In 2006, I got my first Windows Mobile smartphone, a Qtek 8310 (HTC Tornado), and now I have the HTC Touch Cruise.
Ever since getting into Windows Mobile, I thought that HTC/Microsoft had delivered great functionality, but poor usability and way too much lag for such high powered devices. Take for instance the settings panel. There are probably over 8 programs (4+networking icons, 3+ button config icons, ect) in there that only have one check box, when I'm sure HTC/Microsoft could very easily put them into one or two easy to use program with a Help feature.
But at the end of the day, I don't care if no one can use my device as long as I understand it. Additional consolation is provided in the fact that this phone looks so damned sexy
My Own impression
First of all, I'm new here & let me introduce my self...
I'm Richard & i'm from Indonesia.
I've waited for +3 months, before I decided to buy HTC Touch Cruise.
My other candidate are Atom Life & Nokia N82.
Soon (2 days) after my pal (who own a PDA shop) introduce me to Touch Cruise, I bought it
First impression is luxury.
Second impression........Windows Mobile sucks......
I have done hard reset for 4 times now....due to mis configure the registry....
I've done quite intensive test on my Touch Cruise, including Video,Audio,GPS,3G & Internet,Battery life & Applications.
This is my score (0-10):
1. Stability : 3 -> Typical Windows product
2. Looks : 9
3. Dimension : 8
4. Features : 8
5. Usability : 8
6. User Friendliness : 6
7. Battery Life : 7
Average score : 7
The Driver issue doesn't bothered me yet, so I'm very pleased with my new Touch Cruise
NOTE:
FYI,try not to uninstall anything from your TC.
Microsoft Windows product tends to leave "garbage" into the Registry & it will slow down your TC.
Choose wisely before installing & if you have to uninstall,search & delete any leftover inside the registry.
d4rkkn16ht said:
1. Stability : 3 -> Typical Windows product
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's wrong with stability? I'd have to agree that it is probably not the best device overall, but I didn't have a single stability issue with it. Maybe, you've got a defective one?
You know, there are certain lag things that I don't think are due to video drivers. I mentioned this in another thread "Why the lag" but I used to have a Cingular 8525 and supposedly that device had video drivers. It still lagged with a phone skin when you hit the phone button. Rotating the screen was still slow. I hate little things that lag like that. it should be smooth navigation / interface.
The device doesn't have a cohesive feel to it when we have to customize the **** out of it to get it to work the way we want to. You're right when we make a today screen look good then all the underlying apps are ugly windows apps. Your transparency issue, that can only be done from within the Windows picture viewer not the HTC photo viewer. You need to install your own video player. The HTC video browser app only shows videos with certain extensions. It's like you have to have a specific app for every little thing and then it feels like there isn't a streamlined feel to the device.
I gotta give credit to HTC for trying to improve the interface with their apps, the Windows interface is archaic. It's just the combo of the 2 doesn't allow for a polished interface.
hambola said:
The device doesn't have a cohesive feel to it when we have to customize the **** out of it to get it to work the way we want to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the other hand, thanks to HTC for a platform that allows us to do so and even greater kudos to all the xda-developer wizards who make it possible (and relatively easy for the most part).
Not enough can be said for xda. Although I'm a new poster I've been reading these forums for about a year now. Helped me out greatly with the 8525 and is proving to be helpful with the Cruise.
>You're right when we make a today screen look good then all the underlying apps are ugly windows apps.
I am happy we agree on this, I just wish it had a little bit of the Apple touch on it, that's all....
>Your transparency issue, that can only be done from within the Windows picture viewer not the HTC photo viewer.
All I wanted is a kind of minimal interface, so I can set my own wallpaper and not have it hidden by the huge HTC today plug-in. I have installed spb shell for a couple of weeks now and it looks great. I also discovered the HTC Home Customiser which looks cool, so, that's nice too.
>You need to install your own video player...
I think HTC should actually write a very generous paycheck for the people that developed CorePlayer. Without that one, Cruise would be a *little* bit of a disaster.
Overall I guess Windows is a versatile OS with lots and lots of space of customisation and at the end you do get it right, it just takes a lot of patience and resets to get there...
rev3nant said:
What's wrong with stability? I'd have to agree that it is probably not the best device overall, but I didn't have a single stability issue with it. Maybe, you've got a defective one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After some intensive test, I found some irritating bug that caused stability issues.
Quick Menu sometimes disappeared after running several applications.
System Hang at random cause.
Some system settings cannot be changed even if you've already change it.
Redundancy in Registry Entry that can cause stability issues if you change the entry. (not considered a bug if you don't change it)
and some other (not quite sure yet...)
Have you tried a different ROM?
THIS THREAD IS SPECIFICALLY FOR RESEARCH
So im already thinking of ideas for my next rom when the obvious occured to me, everyone has different needs. So why not try to appeal to everyone instead of just a select few.
And to the other chefs out there. This poll may help you do the same, by finding out what people want.
So here are the questions i am posing to everyone.
1. Fully loaded. This would be a rom that has alot of popular apps cooked in as well as some lesser known apps. This is something that doesnt fit everyones needs, but it also gives some unknown apps a chance to shine.
2. Medium build. This would be a rom that has just the basic's (but still built along popular apps). This would be something that includes media players and the plugins to support it (ie things like the flash bundle).
3. Business edition. This would be a rom that is built for business users in mind. it would be almost completely stripped except would still have office built in. Would also include opera. But the rest would be clean.
4. stripped build. This would be no 3rd party apps and most oem apps ripped from the build. would include ripping out office and java and would give the user the most choices of what they want to install.
I am also going to be working on a way to try to support other languages so that no one is left out. i havent officially started this yet, but will probably start ripping into some of these options this weekend. So i would appreciate input from other chefs out there on their experiences of making a WWE rom compatible with out languages.
Since this is a question that will help everyone and including the chefs, i am going to temporarily stick this.
Personally since I have at&t, my preferences would be:
1. Based on an at&t build.
2. Fully loaded.
3. Bluetooth and MSVC compatible.
But all of that is worthless without stability. The biggest mistake I see most cooks do is to be too quick to come out with the next version of their ROM too quickly. Make sure you listen to your users and tried to get all of the bugs fixed before you start trying to upgrade software and creating more bugs for yourself.
cragordon said:
Personally since I have at&t, my preferences would be:
1. Based on an at&t build.
2. Fully loaded.
3. Bluetooth and MSVC compatible.
But all of that is worthless without stability. ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there we go, that's y I voted for Stripped.
Maybe i should have added another poll option that said:
"Who cares as long as its stable" lol
the_passenger said:
there we go, that's y I voted for Stripped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you have a point I should have thought of that before I voted. Most of the time the fully loaded ROMs don't have much stability. I don't think stripped is the answer either thought simply for the fact that the media player and stuff should be default according to his description stripped doesn't have ANYTHING @all
shogunmark said:
Maybe i should have added another poll option that said:
"Who cares as long as its stable" lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol I second that motion.
cragordon said:
I guess you have a point I should have thought of that before I voted. Most of the time the fully loaded ROMs don't have much stability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tend to disagree with that statement. And i can only speak for myself, however when i do my fully loaded builds this ensures me that most of the popular apps are already working. And honestly i think that a stripped version would be open to more bugs because now your manually ripping everything out and leaves more room for errors. But thats just my personal opinion, this is why i made this poll.
Fully Loaded 2.0
Been reading these threads for the past three/four months. There is so much to offer with each variation of ROM, that I find it hard to keep up. Hasitant at first, but now I find myself flashing on a weekly basis. I agree about stability but having all the hot toys with some space left over and nice speed make all the more joy. Themes and all that can be added later and I haven't found them to lead to bug issues.
Keep doing what yall do... and we'll keep eating. Much respect to the Chefs!!
shogunmark said:
I tend to disagree with that statement. And i can only speak for myself, however when i do my fully loaded builds this ensures me that most of the popular apps are already working. And honestly i think that a stripped version would be open to more bugs because now your manually ripping everything out and leaves more room for errors. But thats just my personal opinion, this is why i made this poll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can see that point of view also. I have never tried one of your ROMS so I cant say. Well at least not on my kaiser i havent.
I would have to say medium because its a combination have having all the common stuff built in without any hassle to the users while still giving enough room left too customize.
I'd like to say a mixed between
Fully Loaded + Stripped
may sound stupid but hear me out
stripped build. "This would be no 3rd party apps and most oem apps ripped from the build. would include ripping out office and java and would give the user the most choices of what they want to install."
but with recommendations of new apps so it "gives some unknown apps a chance to shine."
o and with office left in
but thats just me
while on the subject wats the difference (in terms of speed and stuff) if you for e.g. have
1. 6.1 rom with office cooked in
2. 6.1 rom with office installed after
i voted business because i like a nice little rom but everything already working out of the box i.e camera, office, and the other basics. In a business rom i don't like the idea of having htc home/hcc (just my opinion) as there are programs better than that and each user should have the option to install/uninstall htc home.
Didn't vote stripped because than the camera is removed and for me all the hardware needs to be functioning on a rom. I love multimedia roms (fully loaded) but i like installing everything to my storage card so thats why i didn't vote for that particular category.
I personally like fully loaded roms best, as long as they retain speed and stability!!!! Business builds are also nice, b/c of customization, but I agree with thesire in that stripped builds are just TOO naked, I need the camera! So if I have to pick just one, I pick fully loaded!
plz cook the WWE as well... dont be bias to att.... ^_^
Business + Flash Bundle - Opera
shogunmark said:
. . .
2. Medium build. This would be a rom that has just the basic's (but still built along popular apps). This would be something that includes media players and the plugins to support it (ie things like the flash bundle).
3. Business edition. This would be a rom that is built for business users in mind. it would be almost completely stripped except would still have office built in. Would also include opera. But the rest would be clean.
4. stripped build. This would be no 3rd party apps and most oem apps ripped from the build. would include ripping out office and java and would give the user the most choices of what they want to install. . .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I voted stripped because I like to have as much room as possible to add in what I want and not have to worry about Memory vs. Storage Card, but from your descriptions what I would really like, is Business edition with Flash Bundle, but without Opera. I use Office like crazy, esp. Excel, and I want to be able to use TCPMP, and Java apps.
Thanks for doing this survey!
I posted "Who cares, as long as it's stable" meaning speedy, too I like everything up and running w/ room to spare, but that's a bit of an oxymoron. I installed everything I could to my storage card, figured out what continued to work from there after flashing, and most everything does (but not all...).
Lean, stable, fast works best for me. I load a bunch of Spb stuff on, and run the rest from my card. But I do like playing w/ new toys, so the fully loaded is good too. Medium fits my routine quite well. Even small works. So, who cares? As long as it's stable and fast, I can tweak and trick out the rest.
BTW, I LOVE Death, thanks so much for that!!!
I have been around for awhile, and I have learned so much from this rom flashing fixation that we all have.... Personally I try all of the roms out, then I dump ,em and take the packages I want and keep them in my kitchen , and add what I liked from each rom to my own "reheated" (I am no cook) rom. Sashimi has sure made my life easier!! So it is really hard for me to pick... I like the loaded ones, because I can snag new packages, but I like the stripped ones, so I can add my own packages. Some (most) programs use less memory when cooked than when installed from a cab file. Some programs just seem to run better when cooked, some run better with cab files... You cooks just keep doing what you are doing, because I like them all, any way you cook it!!
And by the way since I might possibly have the great Shogun's attention for a minute... how do you make that tsk file so frickin' black? I think I might have actually been the originator of the glossy black bars.cab (check my BootScreen thread) but the reason I made it was because the .tsk file could not keep the 160 saved in the registry. But your bars are black and have no highlight color... how do you do that?!
Research Poll
I would go for maximum flexibility - which in my mind means we should develop and cook a stripped, stable ROM with all of the bells and whistles as CABs that have been fully vetted and tested for stability, capability AND Viri/malware). The problem is (as is always the case), what is one man's garbage is another's man's treasure. I need a basic phone, bluetooth (hands free automobile work), contacts and calendar. WiFi is extra to me, but not to the next guy and gal. What I worry about is building "fully loaded" ROMs that end up being no different than Tilt's maddeningly bloated original AT&T ROM. Just give me the basics and I will download, cook or buy the add ons I need.
This probably means we need to restructure the poll to individually list the myriad possible and current functions of a Phone/PDA and then let individuals have, say, 10 votes and after a few weeks add up the votes and choose to incorporate into a ROM the top 10 items and all else would be developed as add-on CABs.
Just my $00.02
In real estate it is location, location, location.
In ROMs it is stability, stability, and features.
At least this is true for me, YMMV.
In detail - While I do like playing around with new ROMs, especially when I find new programs that I really like, I use my phone primarily as a business tool (e-mail, calender, etc), and secondarily as an entertainment device. My web surfing from my phone is moderate, and mostly limited to RSS feeds and then the articles behind them. I do use it as a mp3/video player on flights, but not in the car since I have XM, and I have a Tom Tom, so I only use the GPS when I forget that! My other consideration is that I have not found myself even close to worrying about memory space on the Kaiser and I usually install programs to the device for stability purposes.
So... what does all this mean for what I prefer in a ROM? Well, it means that since I can use Kaiser Kitchen, my top preference is a clean ROM that I can easily add packages to. That being said, the packages need to fully functional and stripping them from the ROM shouldn't cause other issues. My previous fave was _Alex_'s 6.0, but i have not been able to find a similar 6.1. So, if you loaded rom folders and OEM and add on package folders, that would be most awesome. Then I can choose what I want to add in (things like office that are not likely to change now, and other programs that I know are version stable) and add the other programs that I have to have but that version change all the time (phoneAlarm)
But - since that is quite possibly harder than just cooking a ROM (and not nearly as rewarding) my preference is either a business or a medium depending on what was in the medium. These are also given bonus points, since as someone pointed out, stripping out certain key applications like the camera, usually leads to stability degradation.
My $0.03 (more than 2 cents worth of typing here)
This is my 3rd post ever here, so please be gentle.
Crogon said:
I can't seem to find it now, but didn't there used to be a list of pre-cooked ROMs here somewhere?
I think what I'm aiming at is a fully patched / hacked 6.1 HTC ROM with everything fixed and no bugs. Preferably minus any bloatware. If it has recommended utilities pre-installed great, if not, no big loss. Did they ever finish hacking a video driver together? I lost track of that thread, and can't seem to find any current info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update: I found a tidbit somewhere that says the newest video driver updates should be cooked into the newest ROMs.. but how do I figure out which ones have all the bug patches and hacks installed, and etc. like I mentioned above? I know there USED to be a list of pre-cooked ROMs, but I can't find it now.
Hmm.. Am I maybe thinking of a list of pre-cooked ROMs for the Wing, or some other HTC? If I am, I'm DEFINITELY going to need some ROM recommendations.
Here are my stats, if it helps any:
rom version 3.57.502.2 WWE
rom date 7/17/08
radio version: 1.65.21.18
protocol version: 25.88.40.05H
tri-color screen
KAIS1*0
SPL-3.56.Hard
CPLD-8
.
.
Serial
image version 3.57.502.2
R 1.65.21.18
G 25.88.40.05H
D 3.57.00.00
Thanks again for any help!
if u really want a good cooked rom i suggest you try Garmins roms....they have the latest htc drivers built in...
thats all i can say
mazin13 said:
if u really want a good cooked rom i suggest you try Garmins roms....they have the latest htc drivers built in...
thats all i can say
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he DOESN'T WANT a cooked rom he is looking for a pre-cooked rom.
@op did you check the kaiser wiki or htc's website?? 'cuz that is where you will find all the latest roms for your device that aren't cooked by a chef.
Also, look around for mbavrian's Kitchen Elements.
The "Base ROMs" on which our Chefs makes their gourmet meals are difficult to locate. Some chefs refuse to share like little playground children.
Others, Like NotATreoFan, have released their base for other people to use to make ROMs. Great Contributors.
Woops!
I guess I stated that incorrectly. Sorry!!
Actually I DO want a custom 'Cooked' ROM. My main purpose of reflashing the ROM is to get rid of all known bugs and bloatware. So I WANT all the custom registry hacks and patches to make everything run smoothly. I want the hacked video drivers (as they appear to currently be stable) and etc..
SO.. I'm looking for:
1) 6.1 OS with fast drivers and all known hacks and patches to have as few bugs as possible. UNLESS 6.1 has introduced some known bugs that can't be fixed (wouldn't surprise me with an MS product). IF there's a bug free FASTER version 5 OS, that will run on the Tilt, I'll be happy with that. One time I installed Win95 on a 1.6Ghz T-bird. Power on to fully loaded desktop was like 2 seconds flat.
2) bloatware removed so as to free up space, and I assume cleaning crap out of the registry wouldn't hurt with speed. Is there a system cache, and would it be beneficial to move it to the SD card? I've read that moving the IE cache to the SD card is asking for trouble, not sure that there's a concensus on that or if it's just opinion though.
OK.. that's going to get confusing. Scratch that and start over:
1) All known bugs hacked or patched.
2) All known speed enhancements (that don't compromise system integrity).
3) Rip out MS (or HTC ..or both?) crapware that COULD be replaced with faster / more functional counterparts.
4) Optional: pre-installed or at least packaged (cab?) applications to enhance functionality. My priority in applications is utility enhancement. Example: I can download 200 Flash / Java / MAME games to the SIM card some day if I get bored, don't need it in the OS. However, if there's a remedial photo editing utility that will allow me to edit my pics before I upload them somewhere, I want it.
I did manage to stumble across a wiki page last night: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_Cooked_ROMs
32 Developers and countless ROMs without any comparison isn't much help though. Can I assume all current ROMs are posted there?
Browsing through them, I recall that Alex's ROMs used to be the last word in ROMs, apparently dutty's were until he switched gears. HyperDragon seems to be terribly popular at the moment, but popular doesn't mean better.
I suppose I could try to gather all the available info into a giant spreadsheet, but the fact that about half the ROMs link out to a feature list is slightly discouraging. I think dutty's list of registry hacks ends in '.. and a bunch of other stuff I forgot', which is TERRIBLY discouraging (when trying to compare features).
Anyway, sorry if I'm rambling on here. Please don't take anything I'm saying as judgemental, I'm sort of thinking out loud trying to decide how best to proceed.
Say, has anybody considered building a CVS tree of sorts? I don't suppose you could have actual CODE stored in a repository without violating some sort of copyright or reverse engineering crap.. but a list of known code changes and etc. would seem to be a good idea. Since neither MS nor HTC has stepped up to the plate over the years, due to corporate greed, some sort of XDA-Dev code change tracking system seems like 'the last best hope' to get a decent OS. Ever.
That's why I'm jumping ship to try out the G1 after this. I don't believe MS will ever invest the effort to give us a 'business class' reliable bug free solution. ..let alone one that's innovative or even exceptional. They're style would lead me to expect them to wait till we have 800mhz handhelds, then 'patch' over top of everything they don't like to make it appear to behave better. ..and of course they would deem it necessary to add another programming layer to the OS to 'increase functionality' (read: bog down the OS).
Yup.. I'm definitely babbling now, so I'll just cut myself short.
I guess my bottom line questions are, Is there a more complete list of ROMs anywhere I should be using? ..or one which already compares all the features, so I don't have to?
Better yet, Is there a ROM build specifically to fit what I'm looking for? I seem to recall Alex's were built somewhat similar, but the newest one is quite old now. Hmm.. there is no Windows Mobile revision list is there? I have no way of knowing which older versions would be good, and when bug patches were introduced and etc.
Oh well, guess there's nothing to do but dive in head first and start putting together the best feature list I can with what resources I have.
Thanks for any help! ..and if you read this whole thing, thanks for putting up with my rambling, lol.
Crogon said:
I guess my bottom line questions are, Is there a more complete list of ROMs anywhere I should be using? ..or one which already compares all the features, so I don't have to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never seen one and I don't believe one exists. You'll just have to do your own research.
Crogon said:
I guess I stated that incorrectly. Sorry!!
Actually I DO want a custom 'Cooked' ROM. My main purpose of reflashing the ROM is to get rid of all known bugs and bloatware. So I WANT all the custom registry hacks and patches to make everything run smoothly. I want the hacked video drivers (as they appear to currently be stable) and etc..
SO.. I'm looking for:
1) 6.1 OS with fast drivers and all known hacks and patches to have as few bugs as possible. UNLESS 6.1 has introduced some known bugs that can't be fixed (wouldn't surprise me with an MS product). IF there's a bug free FASTER version 5 OS, that will run on the Tilt, I'll be happy with that. One time I installed Win95 on a 1.6Ghz T-bird. Power on to fully loaded desktop was like 2 seconds flat.
2) bloatware removed so as to free up space, and I assume cleaning crap out of the registry wouldn't hurt with speed. Is there a system cache, and would it be beneficial to move it to the SD card? I've read that moving the IE cache to the SD card is asking for trouble, not sure that there's a concensus on that or if it's just opinion though.
OK.. that's going to get confusing. Scratch that and start over:
1) All known bugs hacked or patched.
2) All known speed enhancements (that don't compromise system integrity).
3) Rip out MS (or HTC ..or both?) crapware that COULD be replaced with faster / more functional counterparts.
4) Optional: pre-installed or at least packaged (cab?) applications to enhance functionality. My priority in applications is utility enhancement. Example: I can download 200 Flash / Java / MAME games to the SIM card some day if I get bored, don't need it in the OS. However, if there's a remedial photo editing utility that will allow me to edit my pics before I upload them somewhere, I want it.
I did manage to stumble across a wiki page last night: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_Cooked_ROMs
32 Developers and countless ROMs without any comparison isn't much help though. Can I assume all current ROMs are posted there?
Browsing through them, I recall that Alex's ROMs used to be the last word in ROMs, apparently dutty's were until he switched gears. HyperDragon seems to be terribly popular at the moment, but popular doesn't mean better.
I suppose I could try to gather all the available info into a giant spreadsheet, but the fact that about half the ROMs link out to a feature list is slightly discouraging. I think dutty's list of registry hacks ends in '.. and a bunch of other stuff I forgot', which is TERRIBLY discouraging (when trying to compare features).
Anyway, sorry if I'm rambling on here. Please don't take anything I'm saying as judgemental, I'm sort of thinking out loud trying to decide how best to proceed.
Say, has anybody considered building a CVS tree of sorts? I don't suppose you could have actual CODE stored in a repository without violating some sort of copyright or reverse engineering crap.. but a list of known code changes and etc. would seem to be a good idea. Since neither MS nor HTC has stepped up to the plate over the years, due to corporate greed, some sort of XDA-Dev code change tracking system seems like 'the last best hope' to get a decent OS. Ever.
That's why I'm jumping ship to try out the G1 after this. I don't believe MS will ever invest the effort to give us a 'business class' reliable bug free solution. ..let alone one that's innovative or even exceptional. They're style would lead me to expect them to wait till we have 800mhz handhelds, then 'patch' over top of everything they don't like to make it appear to behave better. ..and of course they would deem it necessary to add another programming layer to the OS to 'increase functionality' (read: bog down the OS).
Yup.. I'm definitely babbling now, so I'll just cut myself short.
I guess my bottom line questions are, Is there a more complete list of ROMs anywhere I should be using? ..or one which already compares all the features, so I don't have to?
Better yet, Is there a ROM build specifically to fit what I'm looking for? I seem to recall Alex's were built somewhat similar, but the newest one is quite old now. Hmm.. there is no Windows Mobile revision list is there? I have no way of knowing which older versions would be good, and when bug patches were introduced and etc.
Oh well, guess there's nothing to do but dive in head first and start putting together the best feature list I can with what resources I have.
Thanks for any help! ..and if you read this whole thing, thanks for putting up with my rambling, lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to spend some time and TRY each ROM and see which one is suited for you.
Again, READ and spend time.
Read WIKI especially.
There is no 100% perfect ROM even if it is official one.
Crogon said:
I guess my bottom line questions are, Is there a more complete list of ROMs anywhere I should be using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_Cooked_ROMs
If you want a newest list, you are always welcome to Update the wiki
I'm heading for the aspirin bottle just now. I spent like 3 hours reformatting the info on the wiki page into a spreadsheet.. when I discovered that some of the authors are still releasing, but it's not on the list!
AAHHH!!
So basically, A full up to date list is needed. Let alone version comparisons or features and bug fix lists.
Good grief.
No wonder most people opt to install ROMs randomly till they happen across one they like.
.. I think I'll make a new wiki page eventually. Something along the lines of a Kaiser ROM Feature Comparison page.
Do I get a XDA-Dev decoder ring if I actually finish it? lol
I have a simple question about Android in which I have not found the simple answer to... (Although I think I know, I just want some clarification). I recently switched over to Windows Phone 7 because of various reasons, I will not name them here as that is an entirely different subject, however one of the reasons i switched was because of overall responsiveness of the OS. Why does Android's touch response feel sooo clunky? Yeah transitions and app launches are nice and quick, but I mean like pinch-to-zoom, and scrolling... I have played with the latest and greatest both rooted (with and without custom rom) and non rooted (with or without OEM UI), Motorola Xoom, Atrix 4G whatever is being claimed latest and greatest. But no matter what they all have the same touch response lag no matter what. This, believe it or not, is a major deal breaker for me, and before the majority of you speak, I'll speak for you; "why is something so simple and small, barely even considered a nuisance, be such a nuisance?" for me, i love fluidity, so, it just is. At this question however i do retort; if its such a "simple" or "small" nuisance, why can't it "simply" be coded to feel as fluid as Windows Phone 7, or iOS?
Luisraul924 said:
I have a simple question about Android in which I have not found the simple answer to... (Although I think I know, I just want some clarification). I recently switched over to Windows Phone 7 because of various reasons, I will not name them here as that is an entirely different subject, however one of the reasons i switched was because of overall responsiveness of the OS. Why does Android's touch response feel sooo clunky? Yeah transitions and app launches are nice and quick, but I mean like pinch-to-zoom, and scrolling... I have played with the latest and greatest both rooted (with and without custom rom) and non rooted (with or without OEM UI), Motorola Xoom, Atrix 4G whatever is being claimed latest and greatest. But no matter what they all have the same touch response lag no matter what. This, believe it or not, is a major deal breaker for me, and before the majority of you speak, I'll speak for you; "why is something so simple and small, barely even considered a nuisance, be such a nuisance?" for me, i love fluidity, so, it just is. At this question however i do retort; if its such a "simple" or "small" nuisance, why can't it "simply" be coded to feel as fluid as Windows Phone 7, or iOS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will try to answer since I've been using android before. android now as I believe is still in development stage. especially because it started from open source, where many developers get involved to participate in android development. unlike windows or the IOS platform. development is only done by the company itself through microsoft and apple. Except for third-party application development
android is a system (for run smoothly) with very powerful hardware. so that the source code would require a very complicated of encoding. Its a very difficult job to sync between the needs of software with hardware which is available. and vice versa. in an application such as pinching and scrolling there is more than one command which contains a lot of code. and should be remembered that this is a system. which are all related to each other for the overall operations to run smoothly based on the minimum demand of the hardware required. if there is one character in which is wrong of encoding or difference may cause the application not running properly.
for high-end android device such as Xoom, atrik 4G I'm sure the hardware is not an issue. I'm sure it was more caused by the complexity of encoding in one of the applications listed that is running inside in the whole operating system, making it not running smoothly. because so many commands which must be running at the same time is what make pinching and scrolling activity to be "clunky" like you said. you can differentiate by turning off the internet connection or turn off unnecessary applications running in the background. But I'm sure very soon android operating system will have a system which is more stable and efficient in encoding such as those held by the windows or apple.
My answer may be added by other members of the more expert in these matters. as a newbie, i am just trying to help based on the knowledge I had acquired over the years. CMIIW
Yeah I figured it would be something like that, I owned a Droid (1st gen.) and I had multiple setups from completely stock to my favorite, Cyanogenmod (always on the latest stable build, although I've already flashed CM7 RC2 and its probably the fastest its ever been at 800 MHz) everything was perfect except; scrolling and pinch-to-zoom. The scrolling is almost there, it actually lags for a bit but if I leave my finger on the page, it locks on to that position and stays there, but once I lift it to continue scrolling down or up it'll lag a bit again. The pinch zooming is just horrible no matter what. Unfortunately, given the nature of open source, and coding software in general, there is no such thing as "finished" software, so since this is open source, and the software is basically written to run on "nearly" whatever device you choose to flash it on, i don't think that problem will ever be solved. However, if Android does eventually reach that richness of responsiveness, then i will more than gladly switch back.
issues of a system running smoothly is different from one device to another device.
due to the wide variety of different android devices that causes the emergence of issues on the system stability. it was time to google as the main developer sets the standards for the development of next android os. while there is no standardization of hardware is set by google. it will be very difficult for other developers to write code/adjust performance in the operating system command. all this time writing code is must be adapted to the device from vendor itself. This will bring up the differences result of writing the code on other devices from another vendors (competitors). so if we running bencmark test or head to head test on both devices from different vendor the result will not be the same.
and if there will be a standarization set by google i believed it will not againts a spirit of an open source
I think the hardware that the WinCE (well...the shoe still fits) and Android phones are made on is essentially the same, in terms of the CPU power, the actual CPUs, the memory and the various other systems (graphics, etc.). Maybe not identical but overlapping classes and performance.
I haven't played with the new WinPhones but have noticed that every Android phone, no matter how fast and how "bare" factory, sometimes goes out to lunch. Apparently that's just the way the OS is written, it sometimes goes off to do other things internally (loading code? checking hardware states?) and you can't do anything except wait for it to come back.
But then again, almost every OS does that at times, including the main Windows OSes. That's just how they are done these days. If you had a cell phone fifteen year ago, you could turn it on and dial NOW. With any of the new cell phones? Can you do a cold power up and have a functioning phone in less than 30 seconds? Uh, no. But they call that progress, because you rarely have to power them off these days.
Every OS has tradeoffs, if the WinPhone makes you happier, by all means do it.
Rred said:
I think the hardware that the WinCE (well...the shoe still fits) and Android phones are made on is essentially the same, in terms of the CPU power, the actual CPUs, the memory and the various other systems (graphics, etc.). Maybe not identical but overlapping classes and performance.
I haven't played with the new WinPhones but have noticed that every Android phone, no matter how fast and how "bare" factory, sometimes goes out to lunch. Apparently that's just the way the OS is written, it sometimes goes off to do other things internally (loading code? checking hardware states?) and you can't do anything except wait for it to come back.
But then again, almost every OS does that at times, including the main Windows OSes. That's just how they are done these days. If you had a cell phone fifteen year ago, you could turn it on and dial NOW. With any of the new cell phones? Can you do a cold power up and have a functioning phone in less than 30 seconds? Uh, no. But they call that progress, because you rarely have to power them off these days.
Every OS has tradeoffs, if the WinPhone makes you happier, by all means do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, I do like both OS's for their own benefits, currently I do like WP7 better than Android and keeps me "happy". However if you notice; that's not my prime motive in starting this thread, I didn't come here to say one is better than the other. I just want to know why those two simple things (scrolling and pinch zooming) are not fluid on Android. You can't use the excuse that it's different hardware because Microsoft is playing that trick too. You can't use the "its busy doing other things" excuse either, while WP7 doesn't have multi-tasking, iOS does (somewhat) so it can go "do" something else but will still feel fluid. In a multi-OEM environment it is up to the OEM to optimize it for the device it runs on, which is why it baffles me that even Sense and MotoBlur and others make performance decline a bit and still has the lag. Shouldn't it be the opposite?
Nothing? So no one can tell me why Android's responsiveness (scrolling, pinch-zooming) sucks?
Luisraul924 said:
Nothing? So no one can tell me why Android's responsiveness (scrolling, pinch-zooming) sucks?
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Click to collapse
The answer is quite simple (and the above replies are miles off the mark). Hardware acceleration.
WP7 has it, Android doesn't.
FloatingFatMan said:
The answer is quite simple (and the above replies are miles off the mark). Hardware acceleration.
WP7 has it, Android doesn't.
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Click to collapse
So the hardware acceleration runs throughout the entire OS? I thought it was mainly just the XNA and Silverlight stuff that was accelerated (I do believe those are different than native OS code, as Microsoft isnt allowing developers to write apps with native code. Future compatibility issues I guess)
Of course it's the entire OS. Why do you think MS's minimum spec stipulations are so high? This is what Windows Mobile was so plagued with, and how MS fixed that problem.
Luis-
"So the hardware acceleration runs throughout the entire OS?"
It isn't so much that the hardware acceleration runs in the OS, but that the hardware itself has certain routines built into it, on the firmware level, so the OS can just call those routines instead of trying to calculate them.
To oversimplify a bit, for instance, a hardware accelerator for "zoom in" might be programmed into the video chip system to automatically tell it "take the 50 pixels around this spot and blow up up to 250 pixels, refresh screen" where the OS would be saying "OK, let's take this spot, draw a square with a 50 pixel radius around it, now let's take each of those pixels and transpose it over twice the radius and go fill..." sending a long slow string of commands, each computed by the CPU.
When the CPU can offload all of that into a simple "zoom" command to the video chip, the CPU is now free to do other things. Like, respond to your next input, or push the next menu onto the display.
When you have ironclad control over the hardware--it can be a great way to make systems faster. And more stable.
Rred said:
Luis-
"So the hardware acceleration runs throughout the entire OS?"
It isn't so much that the hardware acceleration runs in the OS, but that the hardware itself has certain routines built into it, on the firmware level, so the OS can just call those routines instead of trying to calculate them.
To oversimplify a bit, for instance, a hardware accelerator for "zoom in" might be programmed into the video chip system to automatically tell it "take the 50 pixels around this spot and blow up up to 250 pixels, refresh screen" where the OS would be saying "OK, let's take this spot, draw a square with a 50 pixel radius around it, now let's take each of those pixels and transpose it over twice the radius and go fill..." sending a long slow string of commands, each computed by the CPU.
When the CPU can offload all of that into a simple "zoom" command to the video chip, the CPU is now free to do other things. Like, respond to your next input, or push the next menu onto the display.
When you have ironclad control over the hardware--it can be a great way to make systems faster. And more stable.
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Great answer. Makes sense, thanks. Now given that this is an Android section lets talk more on that, will it ever be possible to have hardware acceleration on Android, Whether it be through custom ROMs or OEM devices?
"will it ever be possible to have hardware acceleration on Android,"
Possible? Sure, I've seen pigs on the wing.<G> Don't hold your breath for it though. Android is an unruly place where even ordinary hardware is often not supported by the OS and software breaks on every new phone. In order for hardware acceleration to work, the OS needs to have routines and drivers for standard hardware, which means locking down a hardware spec. Which is so very Undroid.
Can't see that happening, unless ten year from now someone invents a "standard universal Android cell phone chipset" and all the manufacturers get paid to exclusively use it. That's the ticket--use our chipset, we'll pay you to use it, and oh, yes, it will play one of "our" ads every time your screen turns on. Or you launch a new app. Or place a call.
(See? Things could get worse!<G>)
Here's an interesting discussion...
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914
burtcom said:
Here's an interesting discussion...
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914
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Well as far as I read, it was just a bunch of "me too" and "I agree" lol I got bored reading that I still dont think Google has an official statement on the matter do they?