http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7597440&postcount=463
End of the line for Dinik - 10/08/2010
Dinik's ban is temporary. Hopefully he will feel gratious enough to return when it is lifted.
Well credit to Chainfire for being a fair and decent Mod.
Chainfire you will be a legend today for better or worse!
He had the courage to end a pointless feud that should have been finished ages ago.
No doubt this will also upset and anger many of Dinik's loyal followers (and maybe even drive them to HTCPedia!), but it was inevitable as things were continuing and escalating every day.
Thought this post should be made asap, as a way to contain the inevitable onslaught of comments and grief, so that it does not spread over XDA and get out of hand! Please feel free to move as you see fit.
Hirshy
well.....that sucks.
My opinion
It socks relay; I can understand that the moderators must do something to keep-down the endless discussion; but on this way thy don't punish one person but a hole group of members.
I have respect to the decision of the moderators; and hope this will be a lesson for the future.
I hope this measure it's temporary and not definitive.
I'm shocked and upset by this move,it does seem unfair to
ban only Dinik in this way,to my eyes there were more than one person involved
here and to be consistent the Moderators need to be seen to be fair
and ban all involved in this petty squabble surely ?
Just my Twopenneth.
I didn't really follow the drama fully, but it did seem like the other parties involved did on occasion follow dinik to his threads to pick a fight.
Diniks works were quite nice, iam using it too. but i think he got to far with his own rules of using/not using his works.
Hes spreading his works on xda, so he should respekt xda rules and not the other way round. xda is a free board with a lot of good (free)stuff...he should take cookie as example with his really impressive an amazing CHT...cookie isnt so arrogant as dinik and even publish his sourcecode for everybody =)...
If he wants to stay with his attitude..then he should to to apple =p
oh maaaaaan i loooove his works. they should take that into account.
so where will dinik b going
dunnboy9984 said:
so where will dinik b going
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Over to DJC's house for a nice summer Barbecue?
OMG! Dinik is gone from XDA_Devs?! RIP
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Gone? RIP?
Chainfire banned Dinik for a couple of days, that´s it. If Dinik will be "gone" will be his own decision.
I am actually quite astonished to see that some people don´t seem to understand what was and is going on.
It is the forum moderators and admins who make the rules, nobody else.
While I think Dinik´s work brought some fresh new ideas to the whole Sense modding, some aspects are questionable. I actually stopped using his work, as I felt he made statements which feel like written by some Apple PR guys:
"The greatest (put what you want here) ever, brand new and unique."
Yeah, just like Apple re-inventing the wheel again and again.
Chainfire you will be a legend today for better or worse!
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I think frequent forum visitors will know that Chainfire is indeed a legend here (and probably some other places, too). In a positive way - no need to mention that. Just check dozens, if not hundreds, ROMs with CFC´d Manila, Turbo 3D drivers, and more. Great work. And free, if you like.
Life goes on. Enjoy your devices with those things you already have from Dinik. And as soon as he comes back, you get even more of his work. If not, just continue using what is existing.
@tictac0566
Yes, you have right, its a warning measurement. He is band fore 3 days.
I really enjoyed Dinik's work and hope he chooses to return. I won't take sides in the banning debate, but it does seem like the punishment should have been the same for both parties involved.
Hello,it's a good thing for everybody , he cries all the times and gives a lot of work to moderators, if all creators,developers did the same thing,xda no longer exist .
OH NO!
I´m not glad about how far it is gone now! But in my opinion i think Dinik will not come Back after the 3 days!
Update from other members
kurt-willems said:
@tictac0566
Yes, you have right, its a warning measurement. He is band fore 3 days.
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tictac0566 said:
Gone? RIP?
Chainfire banned Dinik for a couple of days, that´s it. If Dinik will be "gone" will be his own decision.
I think frequent forum visitors will know that Chainfire is indeed a legend here (and probably some other places, too). In a positive way - no need to mention that. Just check dozens, if not hundreds, ROMs with CFC´d Manila, Turbo 3D drivers, and more. Great work. And free, if you like.
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Thank you for the update guys, I had made brief contact with Chainfire before posting and was, at the time, unaware of the banning severity.
I have modified the title and first post as appropriate and will continue if further updates emerge.
This thread was started simply as a location point to capture any questions and conversation about the events, which I hope it is doing acceptably.
My post is intended to be neutral as I am unbiased in the argument and decision, however I do feel the constant arguments, bickering, rules (and rule breaking), and negativity was distracting from the great works and detrimental the forum community spirit in general.
Dinik being a high profile member, would not have gone unmissed for long before questions were asked, so this thread was created. Perhaps a mod can be kind enough to answer any questions other members may have about the decision and rules that lead to it.
Many thanks,
Hirshy
tictac0566 said:
Life goes on. Enjoy your devices with those things you already have from Dinik. And as soon as he comes back, you get even more of his work. If not, just continue using what is existing.
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That's it. Thanks, Tictac.
First of all, I don't use any of the graphical enhancements by the parties in dispute.
In my opinion the decision to temp ban Dinik was a poor call.
In my view the mods took the easy choice in banning Dinik as he was actively trying to defend/protect his work. Silencing him was easier than trying to end the conflict between the parties involved.
If anything most who were involved in the dispute should have been banned, not just Dinik.
However, let's not blow this out of proportion. There isn't anything on XDA graphically wise that can't be duplicated very easily (even with my limited skills ), so I'm surprised this sort of problem doesn't occur all the time .
If you don't want your work to be distributed/duplicated or inspire further development then don't post on XDA, it's as simple as that but I do hope Dinik does return to XDA as his contribution to the community is considerable.
Hope he returns, because honestly after finding this site, he's the main reason I continue to frequent & enjoy this site. No disrespect to other hardworking devs, I appreciate what all you guys do for us.
<cough> No ripping rule? <cough> Did Dinik realize where he was posting his Rom?!
Just one thing to consider here please (in my personal and humble opinion).
Let me prefix this by saying that I've only ever used Dinik’s keyboard and it is a very nice skin. Actually it is a regret that this all kicked off just as he was about to release a wicked new version of the keyboard. I hope he still does, sparse glass parts can be beautiful. On the other hand, the icons and all-over glass are just not my cup-of-tea. To me, I feel the icon images are overwhelmed by the constant borders and large margins around the images. And the glass reflection layer covering the actual icon image can be distracting from the main focus of the icon. But obviously many, many people do like them, so it is all just personal taste.
That said, here is my single point regarding Dinik’s rules, the ongoing saga and many, many arguments occurring throughout the forums:
Without this community (the same community that may have also downloaded, tweaked, changed or even re-distributed his icons, template and related themes so many times) ripping works out of roms (EXT packages, XIP/SYS, drivers, applications, etc), there would be no custom ROMs (Miri or otherwise) for his theme to exist in.
The original/stock roms are, for all intent and purposes, the REAL intellectual property of genuine Artistic and Development giants like HTC and Microsoft. They have had the good fortune to recognize XDA as the great resource that it is; and, despite their actual copyrights, legalities and ownership of code & graphics, made the fortunate judgement to allow all the XDA ripping and modding to continue.
If HTC or MS decided that all new development branches and leaked WinMob builds, were exclusively their property and not to be posted elsewhere; and that roms & applications from a particular device where to be 'Exclusive' to only that model device - what would happen to you, me and this whole community?!
Perhaps Dinik’s distribution rules and tactics should have taken a lesson from that example?...
All the best with with whatever you decides to do in the future Dinik, and I do thank you again for all the effort and hard work you provide(d) into this community.
Hirshy
and about time
u would think he's the only one that can invent glass icons¡¡¡¡
he just went too far and if he don't come back its his lost
XDA was here before him and will be here long after him.
Related
If permitted may we ask why is so many chefs leaving?
care to be a bit more specific?
I can think of one reason.
$$$.
Maybe site like you knw whichone (htc pe*di*.com)
site might require them to have exclusive agreement with them.
In return they get some cut from sites revenue.
supersanj said:
care to be a bit more specific?
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itj, miri, hellonasty ......
jimk68 said:
If permitted may we ask why is so many chefs leaving?
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It is the App Store effect. It is really hard to put hours and hours, weeks and weeks of work into a rom or an app, then watch 3000 people download and use it, only to have 30 people actually press your donation button.
It is especially hard when you read things like this and realize the possibilities outside this " donation only " generating forum.
jimk68 said:
itj, miri, hellonasty ......
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duttythroy, freyberry, both from HD2 section in last couple of days..
I may only be a visitor most of the time, but I'm looking elsewhere too.
Threads are full of ego. totally off the original topic mostly and just one-upmanship.
It's just not friendly any more.
The number of people visiting this site has made it what it is and gained it no end of publicity and there is no question that there are some great people coming here and sharing their knowledge.
However I feel it has moved from a "community" spirit of mutual help to one of it being the roughest pub in town.
I really hope they can get their house in order. Threading with ranked comments perhaps?
I'm sure there are admins on here who know that change gotta come.
Chefs have their own life out XDA, they come and go.
I don´t think Chefs are leaving
orb3000 said:
Chefs have their own life out XDA, they come and go.
I don´t think Chefs are leaving
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They are, they have said, all moving to another site but won't give a reason as if they're not allowed... not even allowed to post their ROMs here or support them here.
Wow!!
I was out from XDA and now knowing this bad news
I wonder why is this happening?
If anyone can tell the story...
Hope not all leave...
Yes i have also heard this. Many are saying that htcxxxxx.com is paying them to move on to their site and in a agreement that they should post their roms in their site only that is upload to their site only forever!!
jagan2 said:
Yes i have also heard this. Many are saying that htcxxxxx.com is paying them to move on to their site and in a agreement that they should post their roms in their site only that is upload to their site only forever!!
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True........?
It could be true.
It started with udK I think.
[ElCondor] said:
It could be true.
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Good chefs have definitely said they'll be leaving in the last couple of days, leaving for another site, with no real reason (that they are able to give). I'm sure we'll see a lot more go in the next week.
I'm concerned people like monx who seem to be able to get hold of unofficial WM ROMs before anyone else will hold them and keep them for just people on the other site. This is all very bad for XDA.
I think our lost, that site never ask for anything other then register and download, always ask to refer back here. So many top chefs
Cheers
They'll probably buy out all chefs here, and when they're done, they sell the roms on HTCpedia.
The chefs will get paid in that way, and HTCPedia will make a lot of profit.
I am making my own ROMs, if everyone leaves, I'll publish them here.
Money....money.......money.........money..........
And don't think for one second, it is not all about money !!!!!!!
Xda as a web site is valued at close to a million dollars, some estimates over a million. What is XDA intrinsically ? A bunch of servers in a leased office in Amsterdam, with a hand full of administrators.
The true value is in the knowledge base of it's members, App developers and rom chefs. Like any other business, the " employees " see the " boss " making all this money from their knowledge and hard work, and say " hey , we can do this for ourselves and make all the money instead of them. "
A couple of chefs get together at HTCpedia and start to develop their own site, based on their own knowledge and their own cooked roms. They get some advertisers and some members and traffic. It turns things from, one chef deciding to list his work on his own site for convenience and control ( like sakajati did over at the Kaiser forum, or MobileMatt did with his great themes ) to competing businesses.
The chefs try to bolster their traffic by providing links in their rom threads here, ( something that has always been acceptable ) egos clash , accusations about stealing business, the fine line between personal links and advertising. Basically children with their toys try to carve out their own area's of the playground.
Money.....money......money...... and as with Apple vs HTC, who i going to be the big loser in this battle ? Does it matter to you where you download your roms ? If you donate to a chef here or over there, does it change your rom flashing experience ? Or could you care less about this petty squabbling and just wish everyone would just grow up.
As far as paying people to list roms on a certain site, that is a slippery slope that everyone walks. Chefs cook , manipulate, improve and port these roms, but the roms themselves are the intellectual property of M$ and HTC without question. This is the reason for the donation system and not the " pay per ". You can ask for a donation for the time and effort you put into cooking these roms, but you cannot sell what you do not own. And nobody " owns " these roms except the companies that created the rom bases.
Who is going to gain and who is going to lose from this " butting of heads ? " Who knows, but does anyone really want a public battle over the posting ( and ad revenues ) of intellectual property they do not even own.
Kick and scream too loud, and you might just get the attention of people that have been looking the other way for a long time. Money.....money.....money......I'm just sayin...........
dead right, as soon as the roms, or the distribution of the roms becomes a commodity, htc and ms have to take notice.
samsamuel said:
dead right, as soon as the roms, or the distribution of the roms becomes a commodity, htc and ms have to take notice.
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+1.
I have been away from the site for a few months and this and another thread about the same topic have been the first things I have seen!!
This is all very bad news. For one thing, it looks like xda-developers is losing some of it's finest talent. Is this phenomenon limited to ROM chefs? What about developers who make applications (for example, Advanced Config)? I notice that the other site has that app up for download, has the developer of that app migrated exclusively to the other site?
As has already been mentioned, once people start making money off the cooked ROMs I am sure Microsoft will start to take note. Also, how many of the developers are using a licenesed copy of Visual Studio or whatever it is they use? And the SDKs required?
Will HTC start to take umberance to the fact that people are using the Manilla SDK and butchering their (already customised) ROMs?
Maybe much ado about nothing or maybe it will lead to problems for both xda-developers and the other site.
Syphon Filter said:
Maybe much ado about nothing or maybe it will lead to problems for both xda-developers and the other site.
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Yes, if they actually start charging for ROMs (one way or another) Microsoft and HTC will definitely crack down on this type of thing. I've read that they can make it almost impossible to install custom ROMs if they want to (not that it's that easy right now), not to mention taking various sites to court, Microsoft$ favorite past time..
I haven't decided what I plan to do about my GTAB yet, but I have decided on what I plan to do about my participation here in the GTAB section on XDA - I am retiring my GTAB XDA mods after this weekend. Most likely, they will be moved to, including TwoTapsX which I plan to reactivate for at least the short term. I will probably lurk here and post, but I won't be an active modder - I will do that on. Basically, I will do the same thing here that I do on Xoom forum, on XDA.
Basically, my character has been attacked repeatedly, in the last month -- two people even went so far as to say that they only reason I make threads here (i.e. my recent Viewsonic one) is so I can incite people and then convince them to give me more donations. Anyone who's been around long enough knows how long it took me to even accept donations, as I was always very hesitant. As a music lover, I actually mentioned one of the things I purchased with everyone's generosity, and some people obviously thought I was "rubbing it in" (I'm using their words). But I was really just doing it to say "thank you".
First off, if you agree with this assessment of my character and you did send me a donation, please PM me with your email address and I will refund whatever donation you had sent to me, with no questions asked. If you feel you made a mistake, then I certainly don't want to keep your money.
I had actually pulled my donations page yesterday before today's blowout, but obviously there are people here who think I still have ulterior motives in what I do. If this were my day job and someone attacked me in this way, I would take this very personally and this is no different. I am very hurt by these negative remarks and if it wasn't for the users here, I would just pack up and leave without even saying anything - but that's not fair to you, if you use my mods.
Besides the insinuation that I only incite people to get donations, I've also been attacked that I don't frequent the IRC enough when users have issues with my mods (in other words, that I don't do enough post-production support). Also that my concerns about the new Woot! users last month were unfounded and that nothing needed to be done (yes, I got a lot of flack for those remarks - @Woot users, what I did was asked for a FAQ or updated Wiki so that way when the users came pouring in they wouldn't be asking the same questions over and over) and that my latest posts about Viewsonic are just "whining" (again, exact words) that have no place here. And lastly that when I get upset that my character is being attacked, that I'm just overreacting and should just "calm down".
Why am I writing all this? Because I just want everyone here to know the reason WHY I'm doing this.
Now assuming that the moderators don't ban me outright because of my comments here, my plan is to wind things down this weekend. I will setup threads in with TNT Lite, gADAM and TwoTapsX, and then just link from here to there. And if the mods don't want me to do that, then I will just erase my first posts and just write that they've been moved to, and that will be the end of it.
I want to apologize to everyone who doesn't completely understand my reasons for doing this. My mods will still exist, but this way XDA can disavow all knowledge of what I do, if they see fit to. As for my recent threads, I will take a backseat from now on and treat myself as a low-activity user. I will still post, but again not as an active modder, and assuming I don't end up getting banned of course.
I'm sorry to hear about this. I honestly thought you were one of the most loved devs here. Regardless of what others say, I still love you.
Anyway, I donated $300,000. Can I have it back?
goodintentions said:
I'm sorry to hear about this. I honestly thought you were one of the most loved devs here. Regardless of what others say, I still love you.
Anyway, I donated $300,000. Can I have it back?
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I needed a good laugh, right about now.
Don't leave
Seriously though, whoever's been harassing you is insane.
Donations aren't mandatory, I don't get why someone would have a problem with you having a place to accept donations. You're putting hard time and effort into something that you're receiving no guaranteed compensation for.
With that being said, you shouldn't leave because two people are being clowns. The Woot / Tiger Direct / cheaper sales of this tablet elsewhere have brought in a new audience, of which a small (but sizable) percentage are morons. Modders here are having to put huge cigarette-size warning labels on their mods because people are mindlessly bricking their tablets, a whole slew of stupid, repeatedly answered questions have been posted, posting in wrong forums... this has just started about a month or two ago.
Consider staying, please. Shirk off the animals, they're not worth your frustration. I'll follow your postings wherever you are, I just want you to stay here because of how strong the community is, and you're a big part of it.
i pretty new to the whole seen, only having brought my gtab bout 2 mos ago. i purchased it because of finding and reading xda. ive modded alot of stuff in the past (xbox, psp, razors etc) and havent done any modding since the older i got the lazier i got. i dont know you roebeet but i gotta tell ya, there are ALOT of trolls on xda. alot. if someone called you out over some nonsense then i dont blame ya for migrating, as i much like you it seems, have little patience for nonsense. i will prob lurk on over to those other sites, because quite frankly, im impressed and enjoy the work you do. as well as gojimi and the others. trolls suck. im behind ya 100%, peace!
Saddened
Robeet
I am deeply saddened to see you leave this group. I have appreciated your support and insight for sdeveral months. It was your talent that inspired me to do my first mods.
You have my greatest admiration and respect for what you have accomplished here and will be truly missed.
Hate to see you step back but I fully understand!... Thanks for keeping me from regretting buying this viewsonic supportless device... (last product i buy from them)
L8r
If you leave, the trolls win. Don't do it!
Sorry to hear this.. But so far i am loving your TNTLite 4.40 no issues and no problems.. I hope we all can still get your mods going forward.
I'm not going to name names (as that's not professional) but it's not casual users that are attacking me. They have a very heavy presence here, and on the IRC. They are not trolls.
This is also not a knee-jerk reaction - this started last month after TNT Lite 5 and has been slowly coming to a head, over the least few weeks. It just came to blows finally, today.
I do not blame you at all. XDA in general has been full of morons as of late and they are pushing away devs who end up starting their own forums. Read some of @shift on twitter, he is an EVO dev.
Your work is appreciated, do not think otherwise. Thanks for your help an we will follow.
Did not now we had a "corporate XDA" <-sory Joke
Come to the Xoom side! I'm buying mine tonight
Roebeet, your work will be missed. I think anyone thinking you post to incite anger and solicit donations is just trying to do some mud slinging. I for one will follow your work wherever it goes.
Hi Robeet, I'm definitely saddened by this but understand decisions sometimes need to be made to keep our own sanity. Thank you for everything you have done, it is much appreciated. Hopefully we'll see you around.
I am a woot buyer and one of the reasons I had the confidence to make my purchase was because of your comments. And now, when I'm quickly perusing posts, whenever I see something from you, I will always read it in its entirety.
I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and the effort you have put forth to make my gTab ownership a great experience. I also respect that fact that you have opinions and are certainly entitled to them. I'm sure it's hard to ignore the negative forces that exist in this forum. I wish you would try.
Please reconsider your position.
sc
Are you going to be posting all your Roms and Mods and updates and instructions under the Gtablet section on slatedroid website for future ones that u come out with. Just want to stay with you and make sure that i stay upto date with all your releases.
sad to hear...
Sorry to hear about this. I haven't publicly thanked you for your contributions to this tab so I want to do it now. Thanks!!! I have used all of your ROMs at one time or another.
Please reconsider and stay here 100%!!!
Sorry to hear this Roe...
I for one am someone that bought the gTab from Woot and have felt that you, above anyone else, has been out here trying to help folks.
I donated to ya based on your help to myself and others, not because of your ROM. You deserve the respect, IMHO.
If what you say is true (and I believe it is) and I were in your shoes, I would be even more driven to excel here as a dev. You're a good egg, Roe, from what I have seen here and over at Woot. I feel bad for those that are given you a hard time. Jealousy is not sexy.
roebeet said:
I'm not going to name names (as that's not professional) but it's not casual users that are attacking me. They have a very heavy presence here, and on the IRC. They are not trolls.
This is also not a knee-jerk reaction - this started last month after TNT Lite 5 and has been slowly coming to a head, over the least few weeks. It just came to blows finally, today.
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they may not be trolls, but there certainly are alot of them.
I wrote about it here: LINK
Does anyone know more about the background - from the twitter account it seems like just a general run-down and a disappointing community.
Other developers on here feel the same?
I'd love to get comments from some of the developers on here, if that is the case.
I'm not a developer but did read this already on a posting at Google+.
But you are right, moving into that direction would be very bad.
Some people think they can be rude because they stay anonymous.
Its something that happens more and more these days on the internet.
I realize it's impossible - there are 12 year olds who probably run rampant.
Seems like there is SOMETHING that can be done.
I'm as Pro-Android as they come. But at times it feels like starting a relationship with a beautiful boy/girl only to find they come with a sack load of emotional baggage.
Here's my take on it: http://andgamesdevblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/android-culture-its-own-worst-enemy.html
I am far from giving up (thick skinned) but there is a real troll culture growing and needs to be stomped out. Anonymity has it's uses but, as with everything else, has its drawbacks. What we need is troll hunters!
Paul
(aka Strangemoo)
I have seen that there are some stupid comments on the market... But not so extreme as to take down your app...
Some users is just plain stupid... I'm from Denmark, so a lot of the comments are in danish... But that devs are many times foreign and really don't look or understand the comments... But a lot of them complain about pathetic things like no app 2 sd or that some function suddenly's gone instead of just writing the dev an email about the issue and giving the app the respect it deserves... 1/5 rating is a lot of the times not justified...
Just my 2-cents...
I'm sorry but this is a silly and immature move by the developer. Receiving negative feedback, dealing with trolls and idiotic users that don't understand technology are fundamental assumptions of the internet, just like not giving out your passwords or helping Nigerian princes get their money out of Africa.
I loved ShootMe and used it for our screenshots, but I don't have a lot of empathy for people that empower others to control how they feel.
Wrote about this a few weeks back: http://www.androidstatic.com/what-shootme-removed-from-the-android-market
I work in IT support and one of the things I have to support is phones. It blows my mind how many 10-12 year old kids have nicer phones than I do because their rich mommy and daddys think their precious little angels needs the latest and greatest smart phones. I went over to a client's office a couple of months ago and he had 3 brand new Droid 2s for his kids, ranging from 10-14.
Point of all this?
In this day and age, there are so many rude little kids with nice phones all over these forums, its amazing to me anyone sticks around. Im over 40 and was raised in a different time than these self entitled children I see around here that want everything now, for free and want you to do it for them.
I cant blame the guy for leaving. A lot of times I wish I could go live on an island somewhere where I didnt have to deal with people because most of them suck.
s15274n said:
I wrote about it here: LINK
Does anyone know more about the background - from the twitter account it seems like just a general run-down and a disappointing community.
Other developers on here feel the same?
I'd love to get comments from some of the developers on here, if that is the case.
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I'm not a developer, but I was a ShootMe user on my EVO 4G. When it received the upgrade to Gingerbread, the app stopped working. The developer never replied to my email and from reading comments on Market didn't reply to anyone.
He did finally released a new version of ShootMe, but you had to have a computer to use it. Also everytime your reboot your phone, you had to sync everytime with your computer.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Welcome to the "masses".
Want a better experience? Go smaller. Dev for Windows Phone, or Web OS, or RIM.
Once something becomes part of the main stream, you'll see the d-bags start rolling in. Even something like xda can be tarnished once it "gets too big". There is hardly a day that goes by where I don't read a thread here that doesn't make me shake my head. This used to be a highly technical forum, back when every devices was htc and running windows mobile.
The only thing that can really be done, is to work with a smaller, more appreciative community. I doubt you would get very many jerk off comments from a Windows Phone user, they are happy to get whatever they can.
All very good points. I wish I had put a little into my thoughts before typing that up - dev's need to be tougher AND respond to people.
s15274n said:
All very good points. I wish I had put a little into my thoughts before typing that up - dev's need to be tougher AND respond to people.
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As a android developer IMHO the android community is as bad as they come. Xda for example used to be a place of collaboration. Currently its a place where maybe .1% do dev, .9% appreciate the development and try to help, 99% ether complain or say nothing at all. Whether the development is for free or profite(which I won't evev get into here) how is a developer supposed to work off of that? Users would rather right a comment blasting a developer who has literally spent days of his life on some product without even attempting to resolve the issue themselves.
I'm not saying some complaints are not warranted, just saying flip the coin around and its not so hard to understand the developers standpoint.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
There is no denying that there is frustration on both sides. This frustration seems to stem from expectation, communication and control.
The developer expects their customers to be civil.
The users expects the developers to devote anything between some to all of their resources/free time building/making their products better.
Both are unreasonable expectations if you think about it.
Civility can only be maintained in a mediated environment - the Android Market seems only concerned about brand and copyright issues. Google seems to think that it's ok to put its developer behind chicken-wire with lights in their eyes whilst their customers are free to hurl beer bottles at them. Dealing with anony-trolls is time consuming and offputting.
Developers range from teenagers with spare time on their hands up to multi-million dollar development studios. I, myself, am a father of three, I work a full week (we've got to eat!) and I code when time permits. Even though I respond to every request put to my apps, if you think that I'm going to compromise the balance of other areas of my life to put in a bug fix - think again. Sure, some of the more effluent businesses can throw more resources into a project, but just bare in mind that most of us are just people and not doormats. Respect and encouragement is all it takes to make the market a happy place. Flaming just ruins things for all (on both sides).
Communication between devs and end users is and most likely always will be a bit of a sticking point. The fact that everyone has their own opinions, likes, dislikes kind of makes it obvious that there will never be an app with 100% 5 stars. Even the most popular apps on the market have ratings across the board. Though, admittedly, some of the low grades may be down to trolling - but some of them will be genuine. Communication takes time. From a user, it may take a couple of minutes out of their day. For the dev, they may have hundreds a day to deal with. This takes them away from the development that the mail is probably asking for!
A user doesn't, and should never have control over the developer. They should, however, be able to request, beg, plead *nicely*. If they get frustrated then they should remember the phrase 'you get what you pay for'. The developer doesn't get any money when you bought your phone - so don't think they have any obligation to give you something for nothing. If it's a paid app, then the developer is saying 'yes, I'll support it.' That's fair sport.
The developer should have some control over their customers in the sense that a shopkeeper can choose who they let in their shops. Unfortunately they have none. They can't even moderate the comments on the market. I've had a 'GAY - Pointless, uninstall' (his words, not mine) on a free app downloaded 12,000 times and has a 4* rating. I can't do anything about it. It always appears when people go to the page. This individual has hurt my app and me without provocation. I didn't ask anything from them. Fortunately, the following message pointed out that the 'Pointless' user was an idiot (thanks XZombie), hopefully it will negate some of the damage. We're completely at the mercy of the masses, and being a relatively new dev, it's a scary place to be!
It's a shame that the most influential party in all of this is hiding behind a wall of silence.
If you're interested - I'm keeping a track of my experience of Android development. The link is in my earlier post.
Paul
Strangemoo
Paul, I do agree with you to a point. But I'm not sure if I like about developers editing comments. But I do see what you mean about people leaving dumb comments for an app that does work.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Katt,
I don't suggest developers could edit comments - that would make the process equally pointless, as devs can put all of the 'nice' things they want in the description anyway. Sorry if I implied otherwise.
Devs should be able to either remove, request for removal or even block the rogue elements. At present, we have to just live with the insults with no way to disprove their claims. Even a 'troll flag' would be an improvement - to show other users that the dev disagrees with the comment.
All accountability is on the devs whereas trolls can run freely.
Do any other devs out there agree with me on this? Others may have had a much more dealings with such than I have.
Cheers,
Paul
IMO if google was smart they would allow for a limited ammount(% of total) of "submissions" of there comments to a third party(google). If they are found outlandish they can be removed.
My 2 cents lol. I can say as a dev of a few apps on the market I have gotten rediculous comments n 1 stars b4. I mean if they are justified that's a different thing entirely. But my 1 stars are disproportionally higher then the trend of the others. Which proves one thing...
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
This is an honestly great thread. Good initiative to |OP|
Taking down an app just because of a few nasty comments is just
childish and quite frankly pathetic.
Seems that developer has chucked his toys out the pram, if he does
decide to release it again who is going to trust such a developer?
I know I wouldn't use the app again, seeing as he's stuck 2 fingers up
to loyal users and the whole android community all because of a small
minority of people.
The whole thing stinks of the guy thinking he is above any kind of bad
feedback, obviously a developer that doesn't listen to the users of his
app and a developer that turns his back at the drop of a hat.
I'm sure he will be missed... Not
Ps. there are better screenshot apps out there
I agree with your comment. Though I am not a dev. I have experience working in the retail end of software. This is a I want it now society, folks forget that they got this software/app for free and as soon as they have a little issue they fly off the deep end cussing out the maker/distribitor of the product. Anyhow like you said you get what you pay for.LIke in my IT course in school my book said "check the dummy behind the keyboard" anyhow thanks for the great apps i use the time flies app.
If a dev dropped his customers because of a couple of snide comments then, yeah, I'd agree with you.
But was that the case for ShootMe?
Before we start flinging hooks around here, wouldn't it be more productive to actually find out what happened first.
I may be proven wrong here, but the guy must've been given some serious grief to take such a newsworthy action.
In fact, that's not been mentioned - it could be media storming. Drum up enough publicity and come back blazing. Only time will tell on that one.
At the end of the day, it's his property. And if he makes a lot of people unhappy that's his prerogative. The reason he's giving though are indeed a real issue the community needs to address.
The plot thickens.
(Glad you like Times Flies! You're most welcome)
Paul
I've noticed that the flavor of a community will vary a lot by device. The Captivate community seems to be generally good and helpful for the most part, but I've heard horror stories of ungratefulness and rudeness about communities around other devices. It may be the same sort of thing with different varieties of apps. If people feel like an app performs a function they deserve outright, they may be less inclined to courtesy and more inclined to selfish expectation.
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Just allow electronic Darwinism to take its course! If someone is taking the piss, they'll soon die out, if people use common sense and don't encourage them
Most devs that I see, Or rather use ROMS from are quite active and very supportive and NEVER even spoke anything about donation. I was happy to donate for a few of them coz it is really worth it.
I think this opinion you speak of might have been due to your ill luck or some pretty bad devs you have encountered.
I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm saying that your prespective might be due to a unlucky or bad dev (one bad apple) incident.
As far as my phone the Desire Hd is concerned, the developers are still just as helpful and enthusiastic as ever.
There is no developer like a bad or good developer, its because of them 99% of people are using roms without donating, 1 % donates to developers
I know a lot of developer who work on projects for free, but even the developers out there like to drink a beer paid from their projects
-> Donations are welcome!
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
tolis626 said:
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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Click to collapse
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with that.
Archer said:
I totally agree with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As does XDA, hence the rules at present
This is not a platform to make money from. For anyone who cares, I have made a total of £0.00 from XDA. I don't wish to make personal profit from here.
I spend large numbers of hours on the site, doing stuff behind the scenes. If I was to draw up a "bill" for the past year, it would be in the hundreds of thousands of pounds, based on the price I charge for my services.
But I wouldn't ever want to see myself as selling something here. That's not what this site is about! There's plenty of places to sell stuff. If you make your own app, fair enough. If you modify something belonging to someone else, then nope
bwheelies said:
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
Ok, I have been trolling here for sometime and have seen some devs who ask for donations. However, the vast majority just contribute their time and hard work for the betterment of the platform and the community as a whole.
As for slow development, I think a lot of that has to do with the phone. I have the SGS 2 and there is active development for that with a lot of great roms. My wife has the 4g Slide and the development is slightly slower. It all comes down to the popularity of the phone.
If devs make a product good enough for people to pay for then good for them. On the other hand, if they ask for donations but their software is crap then no one will buy it.
It's a free market, let them try.
It is alot of work and it requires a special skill set to do what devs do, so I can appreciate them asking for a couple bucks for their trouble.
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with Cabe24i.See below.
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point isn't whether they are allowed to accept money for their work.They surely should put their creations on sale.And exactly here is where I agree with you.ROMs and kernels aren't their work.As good as someone's modifications can be,it's not new code written by them entirely(except for some patches,etc).While their work is and should be rewarded,it should in no way become mandatory that we pay to use it.It should be optional as it is.It's fair for everyone that way.Those who deserve it will get paid,end of story.
Selling apps on XDA is another story,but it's also completely right to do so,as they could just sell those on the market and be done with it.But it's about applications written anew,not modified ones.Did anyone sell a modified copy of a game?I don't think so.
We should show our appreciation to developers,but they should also show us some respect(I am more than content with what's going on here on the dev side,it's XDA's ungrateful noobs that I'm mad with like most of you here).Fraud is a crime after all.
I can see both sides of that argument actually. Whilst I do think it's unreasonable for a developer to request money for merely tweaking a ROM, it's the same as a painter painting your living room. He's not made you a brand new living room from scratch. He's just painted your existing one. That's similar to a ROM tweaker.
That said, I do understand and abide by the rules - I'm not arguing them. Just playing devil's advocate.
lowandbehold said:
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure if you are asking me. I have a Droid Charge.
F2504x4 said:
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the best posts I have seen on xda. Judging by this, the developer who posted a no effort ROM in a stagnant phone development scene who says donate and does nothing with the ROM is nothing but a modern day P.T. Barnum.
First of all, you don't have to donate
But I agree with OP it's not done to demand donations to finish work.
If your work is good and you support it well, possibilities for a donation are much higher.
But it is no guarantee for donations.
But isn't respect from others the best payment for your work? That's the reason I do my share for the community
Ok so basically I want to get this off my chest because this really bothers me and I strongly believe not all points will be accepted or seen as I do. Maybe some of you have heard of the "AOSiP experiment". If not read it here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/redmi-note-5-pro/development/rom-aosp-pie-t3829052/page125 last post thread is locked.
So where do we start? I've been here around some time (even before I registered I lurked around). To the people saying xda is full of troll lately and back than it was way better. No it wasn't. Trolls and ret*rds have been around since xda started the only thing really changed is there are telegram groups for every thing (why tho?) where they troll and harass in real time. The only rule I found about xda is : the cheaper the phone the ****t*er the community. (this might be a point you don't agree on). I strive to improve the community because I am a part of it. I try to be helpful when needed point to already asked question and provide logs. And really I didn't mind fight the trolls.
But now I have to fight troll users AND troll "devs"? Troll "devs", lul never thought of using this phrase but boi here we are. I get it you are tired of all the pubg and give me SOT spammers. But why don't you just make a private telegram group for the devs? What hurts me of the most personally is that the "devs", to prove a point, said: "we gonna f*ck over our normal userbase who appreciate your works btw "(or atleast did). So because you got trolled, you trolled back. Only it missed the target. The trolls won and it's no victory to let a mod (not even akhil himself) post that ridiculously statement and close the thread so there won't be any discussion.
Also why didn't you make up a kernel? Why do you take the name of a dev who did nothing to you and drag him with you. Do you know what messages @srfarias is getting now because you thought: "lul lets take his kernel". Or does your own standards don't apply to yourself? "Trolling / harassment is bad as long as its against us? Trolling another dude is fine, as long as we don't know him?" Don't believe me? Read it here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78978664&postcount=112
Don't get me worn the whole maintainer team of AOSIP did great work! But on a human level they are currently as low as it can get. I personally don't give a f*ck if they stay away because this kind of devs is what's I believe makes up a toxic community. (another controversial point I guess)
Yes this is mainly a rant and maybe I'm way to offended by the devs but I really have to take this of my chest.
Thank to all the devs working on android and not playing games with their user base. And sorry @srfarias for all the sh*t you are getting right now.
Have a nice day.
Sir what's going on?
I find it a bit weird as well that they care so much about what a few people say. They completely forget about all the people who don't say anything because they have no issues at all...
Turning this theme around is trolling. Enough, please. Let's stop criticizing as users or developer and start all over again to bring out the best in us. The developers who only sporten their work and the users only our support and thanks. Enough please
Exactly that! I completely agree to all points... I bought the device 6 months back just because I saw huge development and I was completely happy with all the alternatives out there. J really liked akhils' work with Derp and never had an issue... Seeing the way now the device taking completely getting abandoned from most of the major projects going on, which also helped smaller projects to get a more polished work for our devices, just because some majority of users can't even follow the instructions of flashing or even understand what they are talking about most of the times is really disappointing.
There is always a better alternative to keep the true userbase "happy" with your work.
Everybody could easily not care about the troll's, just annouce in XDA - if they still wanted - keep a closed forum and just release personal work. Get their feedback through GitHub or any other issue tracking platform with strict bug report "protocol" and ignore all of those "members" who are unable to provide useful feedback. But, all we got now is that we got trolled by those who don't even care to try all the steps in order to provide useful feedback...
Anyways, I still appreciate the work done in Whyred and for me the best I have to do is to move to another device which potentially has a better community and devs that knows how to not care about the trolls. as most of the devs should know that 9/10 times the fault isn't in the code but in the user... Especially when we are talking about ROM/kernel performance in games for example. In telegram forum I even saw a user asking if it was possible to update his chipset form sd660 to sd845 through kernel update. Should we even care to explain to any user with this attitude? This type is not even making a research about what he is tweaking on his device and the potential damages he could get by those tweaks...
i don't own this device, but someone linked me this post for some reason.
All i can say is, i have to agree on most points in the OP.
have a nice day all
I am really Sad for this situation, I don't even own the device... but oof.... Good luck guys.
Using other devs name-for-a-project just to f'ck around/troll the users is as low as it gets.
Oh, here is my very unpopular opinion: I have had nothing but trouble with AOSiP(both oreo and pie builds). I thought it was only on my side, cuz everybody shared how good and awesome and perfect AOSiP was. Ugh, the brutal battery drains I had with AOSiP and Derp...
Holy sh't, when I read what happened yesterday, I thought I was in the wrong hecking forum and not XDA. I am glad that AOSiP is gone at this point.
Trolls should be punished, all of them, no matter who they are and what work they have done! If the main problem is trolling, make the whole forum closed behind a sub and stop whining about people being trolls. Where the f'ck have you lived until now?! On another planet? Tough luck, humans have been trolling since forever. People have been illiterate since forever. They don't care to learn, they just consume! But... When you're a dev and you're supposed to be smarter then the bunch of trolls, yet you fall on the trolls' level, you lost that one, hard!
Also, I remember srfarias from before. He has always done his best and I was surprised he started working on this device! He was never malicious! Keep it up, srfarias!
He's not in a ****, everyone here (only with brain) already knows what just happened, so it shouldn't be a problem at all, Srfarias isn't a well known (yet) on RN5 community since it was his first (and perfect) work, that's why he got attacked and to be fair that's normal and expected especially from this community, if he was a known here and developing ROMs for RN5 like the others i can imagine a totally different reaction from the same who attacked him, but since he's not known here (again, yet) then no problem, **** his rights and **** his time that he spent on this great kernel, no wonder, this is the nature of people.
Go to any ROM's topic now and see the begging, please dev don't leave us, you're the best dev, no such issue here don't report any issue you can hurt the dev, please continue your awesome work dev, will you continue this project dev?....etc.
God bless you Srfarias with this community and have fun (i doubt )
Just a personal consideration: it's sad to see how a very restricted group of people can destroy a modding community.
I can agree with you but also with the devs.
Spammers, trolls, pubg extreme players, is that really important? I have no skills about building ROMs or kernels and i'll never try to do this but, why we can't just ignore this kind of people? Why all users need to lose a good ROM (i've installed AOSiP once, and i've loved it) for those spammers?
I really hope to see AOSiP team again here in our subforum, i haven't followed this question and this is just a personal thing, but it's nice to see people on this argument.
(Sorry for my english, i have no skills on languages too )
Totally man..these devs act so mature and stuff still do retarded stuff and blame the trolls (what was the whole point of telegram group?)
.
I'm gonna give slow claps to the devs who did this experiment.
Good job you won.
.
And when it comes to this case it's not the trolls who are spreading the cancer its the...you know who.
.
SRF (the dev of pureCaf) is such a humble guy and these guys HAD to F him up.
.
Anyways I'm glad that you (the ones that did this experiment) have stopped developing ?.
We have many humble and intelligent devs who dont do stupid stuff and blame it on trolls and don't ruin other devs life.
.
Peace.
I would agree with OP on some points, including that the experiment in question was debatable because it "contained" someone's work and it had directly impacted him.
But on another note, the experiment of similar sort was desperately needed to prove a point, which many people seem to have missed.
It was not aimed at PureCAF dev and his kernel per se, it was aimed at Whyred users of different profiles who have couple of things in common - disrespect, 0 knowledge, impatience and just bad manners in summary. I have been pissed of numerous times here because I try to add something useful to disscussion and development in a way, to help other users and devs, and then comes the horde of 10 users after my post with the exact same question which I (or anyone else) have answered, not to mention that there were numerous idiotic feature requests and useless bug reports.
One thing you have to remember, the ones who have issues will always be more vocal than those who don't. We all give feedback in threads of course, but you don't suddenly jump in PM to say hey great work, everything works, keep it up, where as those badly mannered people will spam PM's if something doesn't get fixed or even their request doesn't get considered, and those people will turn to disrespect, which has been shown here frequently.
The experiment was just a tip of the iceberg, because this kind of harassment goes way way back, and with presence of Telegram as an instant messaging app, you as a known dev are fuc*ed up.
The placebo effect, which is a powerful thing sometimes, has once again proved how many clueless people are present in this forums, and how much they have an impact on community nowadays.
I have used AOSiP + Derp for a long time, and my device has performed great with that combo since June last year, but others had issues, and that's expected as although our devices are basically the same, not all electronic devices are created equal.
And have to add, I have previously used 3 flagship devices from Samsung (older ones) and Sony and no, the community there wasn't even close to this.
Nah..the point of the experiment is great, a lil bit controvery move but I agree with them.
But I don't like some part of their last statement that seems attacking purecaf dev, as far as I know srf never talk bad about them, It is some users and adi (bootlegger dev) who mock derp because rom devs change to purecaf, but once again afaik srf never do that.
In the end everyone react very poorly in this situation, looking for someone to blame in this situation is not a solution.
We (user and dev) must respect each other, mocking other dev is never good, even it is only a joke.
Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him
alexmason90 said:
Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him
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Nah, it was much more than that, it pre-dates even this situation with PureCAF.
Guys, you'll need to see the wider picture, PureCAF kernel was not the problem, it was just the last straw. The problem lies within the community, in the nagging users themselves and the pressure they have been putting on devs.
I was expecting something similiar, I'm even surprised that it took this long, however the handling of the situation could have been better, I admit.
It's just some little kids fight, almost funny to watch actually. Ambitious and jealous people are like this, they have a tense nature.
Also, I don't believe XDA management is compotent enough. Even the website is using an outdated design and broken some parts.
Anyway, this was surely interesting to watch.
I've not read every single post, but none the less:
I've been with XDA since March of 2011. I lurked at least a year or so before that. I joined with my first smartphone ever, the HTC Desire. With every smartphone i've owned since, i was active in their respective forums. And from my personal (non scientific) feelings, the XDA community has been getting progressively "worse". I fondly remember the days where we spend days and weeks in threads talking about how to get android 4 to boot on hopefully outdated Hardware. Minor achievements where shared, several people where collectively working on something while having a nice and technical discussion. I loved coming here to hang out with the geeks and talk about the things i enjoy most.
But lately, i've just not bothered. It might be because it's my first Xiaomi, and the community is different from Samsung or HTC. I have not logged in in over 4 weeks and after coming back today i have not found a single thread that's actually usefull. Sure, Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it. I won't **** on anyone actually putting his work out here. I highly appreciate that. But i feel the Gold Rush of Android development is done. And now here we are, complaining about what devs should and shouldn't do, and making the 100th thread about what rom has the best batterylife. I feel like most people that come here don't even care to do the bare minimum of research. That's frustrating. This used to be a place for people who enjoyed mobile devices and hacking on them as a hobby. Not a customer support forum for people not getting 20 hours of Screen on Time.
Yes, releasing a ROM with advertised changes you didn't make, and in the process using a devs name for work he didn't do is not a nice move. I can see where they are coming from and why they did what they did. It used to be a major offense against the devs to even ask for Features or ETAs. It was just not tolerated basically. We are basically doing open source development here. Want something done? Well bad luck. Do it yourself or wait for someone to do it. You are not paying anyone to do the work. Be greatfull for what our devs do and stop asking for more. If you want more, or faster, do it yourself.
I personally don't get anything of value out of XDA anymore. I've always been here to be part of the process. To be at the forefront of what's possible in mobile tech. I wanted experimental stuff and see things break for the sake of it. I enjoyed talking to devs about the process and getting insight into what's happening behind the scenes. I never came to XDA for the "best battery backup rom" out there. This is a community of interested people. Not a customer Support forum.
@domsch1988
it's not your personal feelings, it's the true fact
I think all the old users here feel the same, I've learnt alooooooooot from this community and I'm really grateful to everyone I've got something from him but now everything is really weird!
And i really liked this "Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it" , it's like we are in Olympics, tons of ROMS and sharing the same bugs and sometimes full of bugs like the earlier releases of every android pie ROM here once Pie was out, why everyone was in a hurry to give a full of bugs ROM? glory or first Pie ROM maybe? instead of squashing the bugs and giving 3 or 4 perfect ROMS every day a new ROM with the same ****, and it's not only that, half of the ROMS now have 3 versions, the official, the modded or unofficial one and the one on telegram (the new disaster on XDA) WTF? and 90% of the developers here are not responding to any inquiries, yeah, i can clearly notice that.
Why they aren't working together and give their best instead of this mess if they really want to serve this community? I've seen many users here complain that they are confused and don't know which is better or with less bugs or will get regular updates.....etc.
About (the majority) on this community i think there's no need to talk since i really get bored and nothing will ever change here, sad but true.
And finally a new dev came here and gave us a prefect kernel and now he is involved without making any mistake, his crime is that he refused to see his work is being used from the others and without even asking or mentioning him, LOL!
Everything is getting worse here, and unfortunately from all not only the users.
Btw, Thanks for this post :good:
One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
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Gandhi70 said:
One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
Gesendet von meinem MI PAD 4 PLUS mit Tapatalk
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Since we are in a general talk topic I just want to say that this is the best and the KISS explanation ever given in forum. This really small paragraph you wrote can easily explain on it's own what happened to all technical communities!!!