Related
I been using the iphone today.....what a smooth operator...everything just flows...the page animations the opening of applications...the look and feel, the way touch works. The typing (mind you Cooteks Touch and icontact is on par with it )very impressive...it even takes batter pictures than the cruise and its only got a 2meg camera...using my cruise everything is laggy....I cant wait for the drivers or update. If people like larna and others can do wonders to the speed of applications then what the hell are original developers and manufacturers doing. I say thank you for this forum...If HTC/Microsoft had been thorough as Apple was with the iphone the cruise/WM would be a different beast altogether.
I think Microsoft must be going through what Mercedes and BMW went through when the first Lexus model came out and caught them sleeping.
Nice phone the iphone but very limited when compared to ours....but things could change.
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
I think a capacitive Display would help much. I'm often not sure if pressing a soft button worked. That makes working on it feeling laggy (beside slow program starts).
The WM developers have ignored any work on the UI for years. Now they got payback, the WM UI looks like an ugly Windows 95 UI and is totally outdated.
You can see that a smooth UI is possible by looking at pointui.
But do not forget the WM advantages.
All the availabe software, for example WMwifirouter.
That on iphone? I think it will never be...
Agreed....I can only fault Microsoft in Slow Deveopement....whereas the Manufacturers trying to make everyhing generic compatible instead of optimizing....now if they even aimed for the latter, no only would our devices be useably versatile, they would be decently fast and efficient.
We can only hope that WM7 will better developed for touch and hopefully not a memory hogger ...aka Vista.
On June 2008 the rumor say we will have a 3G Iphone + integrated GPS + open SDK. All for not more than $500 USD.
Nobody will touch the touch cruise with a stick at that point (unless the price will be reduced to $250, or something close). So I believe we're going to see new phones from HTC pretty soon.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
Noam23 said:
With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
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I hate to say it but I think he's right.
I can and only will speak for myself, even though that may be the case for everyone else as well; but I use a WM based device because of the software. While the iPhone is faster, better looking, smoother flowing...as of right now it is locked down and requires hacks just to browse the file system!!
TheOnly1 said:
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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Click to collapse
If you are reffering to the current iPhone, i would have to say you are DEAD on. However, if the new one lives up to what people are saying about it (an SDK, gps, 3g),
Then apple would have successfully created something that achieves both outcomes: A cool device with a fast, smooth flowing UI WITH functionality and productivity.
remoh said:
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
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Click to collapse
Actually, it is up to the OEMs, not microsoft, to optimize windows mobile for each of their devices. This is where HTC fails time after time in my mind.
Microsoft gives them every opportunity to implement things accelerated graphics, among other things. HTC does not do it!!
And then has the audacity to blame the customers for buying devices based on their chipsets instead of what is actually implemented (or NOT implemented -- LOL).
Since my last HTC purchase of the Touch Cruise, which cost me almost $900 I am extremely upset and dissapointed, not to mention disillusioned. The kaiser and the TC could have been great, but HTC did not want them to be -- they are slow, clunky, unresponsive at times, and i don't see why HTC even put a camera on them 'cause the pictures and video are better left not being captured at all.
If the new iphone lives up to it's promises, i see no reason to ever purchase, nor use another htc product ever again. That is the thing though...Apple is one of those companies I just do not trust and/or like....but just having the possibility of a device like the new iphone will keep my interest peaked!
If everything goes as planned, I believe that mobile developers will definately take advantage of the SDK.
While it will take many months for all the developers out there to create good applications, it will happen.
I'll actually go as far as saying that iPhone software will in fact exceed that of WM software in the future -- Provided that apple releases a decent sdk and does not place absurd restrictions on developers.
Think about it...how long have WM devices been out for...and what is their popularity?
Compare that to how long the iPhone has been out for, and it's popularity...
While currently they are for two completely different concepts;
one for user friendly every day usage, and one a "business" device...
apple seems to be combining both concepts into something that I would consider a "dream" device that I have been waiting for from HTC to put out for years now.
I thought that the TC would in fact be something closely resembling my "dream" device -- And after I actually used it and saw all of the problems with it first hand, I quickly recognized I was completly wrong.
Let's see if Apple can successfully accomplish what HTC has consistently set out to -- and subsequently failed to do so many times.
If they can pull this off, I will definately consider myself a proud iphone owner / user.
i have to admit the only reason i did not buy an iphone its because i did not want to switch to at&t and evryone where i work has one. i just wanted something different so i bought the touch cruise. i am regreting it even as i type. 700plus usd down the drain. when the new iphone is out this summer i am definitely getting one and switching to at&t
i wish i could get my hands on one of the htc developers. i would beat the life out of him. for real. i am mad and pissed. even the clone iphone, the hiphone which i saw with my own two eyes and held in my hands is better than touch cruise. its only 200usd
There are a lot of Touch user using WM device not having too many complaint. I like UI and build of iPhone, but I never forget the experience what smart phone of Nokia and Sony Ericsson running in Symbian. People will just imagine what Apple will enhance the iPhone and offer what we have used in WM device. Just like people asking why manufacturer not offering VGA device. Why don't have a look of the delay of Sony Ericsson X1? Keep an eye on what Apple implement the SDK into their iPhone and software developer introduce program, and to compare what we have with WM device. Looking forward to have a device running in X OS with VGA display with weeks of power with plenty choice of softwares .... and lastly without lag. Just like years ago we are looking for a VGA WM device. Manufacturer like HTC will make such device if it can.
Are you guys serious about the Touch Cruise camera being poor? It has one of the best cameras I've ever seen on a mobile, save for the lack of flash.
-3 Megapixels
-Autofocus
-Excellent macro mode (try taking a picture of anything close up (~3inches) with this vs. a normal camera under normal lighting...TC holds its own, or better yet take a picture of something close up and compare those results to those of an IPhone)
-Auto switch to night mode in poor lighting (remember camcorders with night mode also exhibit lag in night mode, but normal cameras don't lag as they don't use a night mode since they have a flash!)
I must agree with Sonus on the camera. I actually printed out some pictures I took with my TC and they were pretty much OK on paper.
i do believe the tc is a very good device with advantages and disadvantages same as the iphone.
the thing that annoys me most (also while writing this text) the input lags in the touch keyboard or other apps, e.g. switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.
the good things are:
100% customization
tons of apps - navigation, wlm etc
lastly, i have see the iphone hanging - it could not connect immediately to wifi
I'm positive Apple is not going to put HTC out of business on June 2008, when the 3G iphone is supposedly coming out.
HTC will definitely release formidable competition on fall 2008, probably the dream machines we always wanted to have. My only complaint is that the Touch Cruise / Kaiser have the hardware to be much of that "dream machine", but aren't so because HTC doesn't think it is necessary since these products are competitive enough as it is, in today's market.
I agree with the only1.
Just think of it in business terms, the iphone and touch cruise are aimed at different markets. HTC could probably produce a iphone type device but why should it. HTC devices are more business orientated and sold as such, they are not (imho) trying to compete with consumer based ideas and what looks sexy when playing music or videos. They are aimed at different markets.
If people want a device to look good show off pictures and videos and play music they buy a iphone, for gods sake its a ipod touch that makes calls, so no comparison.
If people want to do all of the above and have a device that can be used as a great business tool buy a touch cruise.
Okay there are some faults but they will probably be fixed on the next device but that too will have its shortcomings and we will give out **** about it and compare it to the newest goddam wonderful iphone, jphone, kphone or whatever with hdtv or can make coffee but thats life. I know we paid big money for what we have but for jaysus sake its "not ****en dark". i.e. you could see what your were buying.
Just my opinion.
A bit strong maybe but thats life.
I dont know what you guys have done to your devices to make the camera so good, but unless i am taking pictures outside when it is sunny out, it will NOT come out clearly at all -- it is very distorted and grainy, not to mention it slows down to a crawl! I have a sony cybershot 2.1 MP camera from 2002 that takes better pictures than a TC cam -- and it cost about 150$ 6 years ago. When its dark or indoors, the LCD on the cybershot doesn't slow down to 1-5 FPS.
Now people say that the TC is a business device and that's true.
But, I for one am sick of trading off functionality for performance on the business devices produced from HTC.
Why can't it be both at the same time?
Unfortuneately, I did go in the dark on this one. Before I bought the TC I didn't research the video driver problems.
I only looked at the specs, researched the chipset and thought I was getting something that would (at least) out perform my PPC-6700 that I purchased over 3 years ago. I was wrong. I don't think HTC will go out of business...not at all, but i DO think that alot of people are in a similar boat that I am in...betrayed by HTC and will continue to hold a grudge against them, and subsequently switch to someone who can provide something better in the future...hopefully, that can be Apple...but I definately have some doubts to say the least, considering what the current iPhone came out as -- a Media player with a phone on it.
PseudoReal said:
switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.i
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OMG, i have the SAME problem...it is the WORST!!
you have to tap the stupid triangle like 50 times just to get it to switch.
It's an atrocity. Devices from 3 years ago do not even have this problem.
Business device or not, this is just plain unacceptable.
Unless there is a fix for this problem, or I am doing something wrong and do not know about it?
How many ppl have similar experience?
I have that same problem. Takes multiple clicks and major lag to get the input keyboard to show up. The reason I have to chance keyboards is I often use Opera 9.5 and for some reason none of the Touch keypads work with it, so I have to switch them (I think that's another problem could be related to Opera still being beta). Also every once in awhile I can't get to the PocketCM keyboard and instead get the lame Windows default one. But that also is another problem.
Back to the lag, every once in awhile I will get lag here or there, e.g. will click on the task manager on the top right and not get anything, keep clicking around with no response. Then all of a sudden all the clicks take effect and I will see the task manager menu open and close in succession real quick.
All in all it's a good device, great functionality, just a few quirks here or there. Maybe it's time to hard-reset or flash a new ROM that might solve some of these things, who knows.
Oh forgot, as for the camera lag with the low FPS in low light conditions, check out this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
HTH
thanks for that... the "trick" described in the first post does increase the response by 10 fps or so, but the thing is, the picture quality also goes down...its a lose/lose situation i guess lol...I also noticed that there is a new .dll fix on the HTC E-club, but only for the kaiser. I tried to login but it says theyre doing maintainance right now, so I can't check if there's anything released for the TC...even so I doubt there is
but my issue is, and always has been..why should i need to do all of these tricks and patches for a device that costs as much as the TC does? I shouldn't. No one should.
also another thing that came to my mind...people and HTC say this is a "business device"...so i was thinking, wouldn't business users want their devices to be MORE responsive than a media player / cool trendy "sexy" device?
I mean when you need to wait 5 seconds and tap the screen multiple times to play a music file, it's not really that big of a deal...it's an annoyance yes but it doesn't result in you losing work time..or a loss of productivity
but when you need to tap the X button 5 times to close out of a document and switch to your email...or taking notes and browsing web pages for work related stuff...or trying to switch between SIP's...and having to wait because the device lags worse than windows 95...it becomes a loss of productivity...
even if it's only seconds, those seconds add up, and the annoyances stock pile into one big ball of rage for me at least, heh.
I do admit that my own foolishness and quickness to buy a new device is partly to blame here. I should have looked into it more. But I also think that HTC holds a good part of the blame as well.
hopefully the geniuses here can come up with some good fast custom roms that will deal with these issues...i won't hold my breath waiting for this patch to come out from HTC at the end of the month. I'm doubtful that it will do anything at all.
Ok, so I've been using an HTC for my last 3 phones and now have to decide if I want to go with the Raphael or the iPhone 3g. Anyone here with experience with both care to comment?
If you want a keyboard, higher res screen, multitasking, slingplayer, a wireless modem for your laptop, support from xda dev like me, then you have to get the raphael. Otherwise the iphone would be ok i suppose.
My personal opinion about the iPhone 3G is that i find it more of a gadget then a real poweruser phone.
I also like the fact that the Raphael has a keyboard and that's a must for myself.
Here's a comparison link from pdadb.net for some spec differences.
I say GO HTC!
Plus there's no Cut/Copy/Paste functionality and the only Bluetooth profiles it supports are headset and hands-free, so no file transfers or music streaming.
And you'll have to put up with poor 3G reception: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/13/iphone_not_very_3g/
kmann said:
Ok, so I've been using an HTC for my last 3 phones and now have to decide if I want to go with the Raphael or the iPhone 3g. Anyone here with experience with both care to comment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sort of related to pros...
I had the Diamond for a week and sent it back as the battery life was useless. Also the device heated up a lot when in use. The last straw came when I was trying to use it on the beach and the screen was totally washed out.
I am currently trying out an iPhone, and I must admit it does most all of what I want (phone/email/web) and some more... and the screen is visible in bright sunlight! Just need to get over some missing things - and itunes. Oh, and O2 network (useless 3G - have to switch it off most of the time). Oh, and iplayer works fantastically... thats almost sold me now.
I still have my TyTn2 in case I need a MS6.1 fix, but as things are going, I doubt it.
WatskeBart said:
My personal opinion about the iPhone 3G is that i find it more of a gadget then a real poweruser phone.
I also like the fact that the Raphael has a keyboard and that's a must for myself.
Here's a comparison link from pdadb.net for some spec differences.
I say GO HTC!
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I agree with WatskeBart 100%. The iphone has impressive hardware with the exception of the lack of keyboard of course but it can't do all that a normal smartphone can do because of the software on the device. If all u want is a media player and internet browser then u should get an iphone 3g. If you are a phone techie then u will be disappointed all the way. Not to say that the touch pro can't be a media player. As i'm writing this email i'm listening to music on my touch pro and i was watching Hancock like 30 mins ago.
HTC for sure!!
I talk from personal experience as I had an iPhone 3g before selling it to buy my Touch Pro.
I had the original iPhone which i soon chopped in for an N95 8gb as it was too slow for net usage and the lack of apps was rubbish. I then got the upgrade to the 3g iPhone thinking this would be an amazing bit of kit due to 3g, GPS and the new App Store. After a week of owning it I was not impressed at all.
Firstly the 3g, its half speed of the HTC only 3.4 i think as opposed to 7.2mbs and even when it does get a 3g connection it times out constently. Then when the 3g connection drops it fails to switch to Edge or GPRS sometimes which means it will never connect.
The GPS is ok, although running google maps of both the accuracy on the TP is much better I found plus you cant put TomTom on the iPhone at present.
Then there is the app store, what a load of tosh. The apps that are free are free becos, well you wouldn't pay for them and to be honest I found I had a load of apps installed just becos you could not becos you wanted them.
I would say the only thing the iPhone does better is music and games, being an iPod it should be and the games you can buy do run very well although limted due to control system.
Another niggle i had with the iPhone is the new case, it scratches so easy and you always feel you have to treat it with cotten gloves. One day indoor use and i had hairline scratches on the apple logo
I sold my iPhone on ebay for a tidy sum and have had a week with the Touch Pro and am so glad i did it.
Plus if you geta WM you get help and support from all the peps on here, the iPhone community is no where near as good lol
2 things which bother me about iphones are
1. got a free rss program of itunestore for my ipod touch
and without copy paste one have to surf to the rss feed one wants
and write it down on a note open the rss program and write it there
silly that one cant copy paste
2. got a free ebook reader program but only way one can get ebooks is from www url's
no option to get all the ebooks on my computer into the ipod
so it's useless
suspect the lack of freedom with iphones / ipods
both consering accessing data from ones computer and
lack of SD data or even basic filesystem access
are one of their biggests problems
forgot tomtom, and a2dp. use that all the time too.... iphone cant do either.
HTC as the it can access parts of the internet the iphone carn't reach
Touch Pro rocks!
I personnally think the Touch Pro and iPhone are not / should not even in the same category at all:
- 2.8" screen for "pocketability" vs 3.5" screen for comfort
- Full qwerty keyboard vs no keyboard (granted, the on-screen keyboard on the iPhone is even better to use than PCM Keyboard on my VGA 4 inches-screened HX4700, mainly due to the capacitive touchscreen)
- On one side, the nerly endlessly extensible Windows mobile, can do anything, but you can't expect noobs to fiddle with the registry everyday and swap ROMs to have a better-working device
- On the other side, the iPhone platform is less open, but easier to use for nOobs, apps are easy to install, and (where the features are actually implemented) it just works
Surely there are other different points!
I myself just couldn't care to be ensconced in the iPhone, with clearly throttled-down features (no A2DP protocol for BT, no MMS, no video with the camera, no f#$..g copy-paste, for Krishna's sake? How hard can it be?).
My vote goes for the Touch Pro!
My 0.02$...
kmann said:
Ok, so I've been using an HTC for my last 3 phones and now have to decide if I want to go with the Raphael or the iPhone 3g. Anyone here with experience with both care to comment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope that kmann could make his decision based on our replies
plain and simple........copy and paste........nuff said.
the iphone is just a glorified Ipod, the HTC phones are usable computers in your hand and much much more.
I would suggest that you take a look at the iphone thread on the macrumours forum. You get the views of a large number of iphone owners there. To my mind, they fall into 3 categories: On the fence types, fan boy types (for whom the iphone can do no wrong) and a substantial number of people who are having real problems with the iphone - not so much the things that are missing (cut and paste, a2dp etc.) but problems with doing basic phone stufff (like making calls) and build quality issues (cracks appearing in casings, bits falling off/ stopping working etc.).
I am not an iphone hater - I have an Ipod touch with the very latest firmware on - it is a great music player and some of the apps from the apple store are good fun - I have even bought a couple! I have also spent a couple hours playing with the latest iphone (a friends'), as a phone and a serious business tool, it just didn't cut it for me.
Ok, time to chime on again. Thanks all for your input. I've got 30 years of experience in deep IT technology. I've programmed Operating Systems, hardware etc. I've cooked my own ROMs for the HTC phones. And maybe I'm getting old and tired of fighting the hassles, but you've got to admit the iPhone is sexy, and simple.
Sure I understand the limitations, for example, I use push email and Calendar sync and I realize Apple has yet to fully implement the ActiveSync APIs which causes issues.
So I am in a quandry. Am I tired of fighting the custom ROMs and having the some extra features I rarely use, or do I want sexy and simplicity.
Ah, I guess we live in great times when these are the decisions I have to wrestle with.
kmann said:
Ok, time to chime on again. Thanks all for your input. I've got 30 years of experience in deep IT technology. I've programmed Operating Systems, hardware etc. I've cooked my own ROMs for the HTC phones. And maybe I'm getting old and tired of fighting the hassles, but you've got to admit the iPhone is sexy, and simple.
Sure I understand the limitations, for example, I use push email and Calendar sync and I realize Apple has yet to fully implement the ActiveSync APIs which causes issues.
So I am in a quandry. Am I tired of fighting the custom ROMs and having the some extra features I rarely use, or do I want sexy and simplicity.
Ah, I guess we live in great times when these are the decisions I have to wrestle with.
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Click to collapse
i got sexy, simplicity as well as configurability. NOkia E71 (white steel). cant go wrong, 3.5G, BT, WIFI, GPS. all works as it should. IM using Garmint Mobile XT with Australia NT Maps 2009 without any issues, BT works like a charm, music player is fantastic, 8GB microsdhc card is fast.
dont know what else to say, im glad i bought this phone.
jasjamming said:
i got sexy, simplicity as well as configurability. NOkia E71 (white steel). cant go wrong, 3.5G, BT, WIFI, GPS. all works as it should. IM using Garmint Mobile XT with Australia NT Maps 2009 without any issues, BT works like a charm, music player is fantastic, 8GB microsdhc card is fast.
dont know what else to say, im glad i bought this phone.
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Wow, one of the top chefs of all time goes with the E71 (it is a badass device btw). Are you considering getting a touch pro and cooking for it or are you just chillin in the forums (hope its the former or your part of the elite project).
I will go for the Raphael because of this great forum here, but as far as I have compared these two phones in action I must say that at this moment the only advantage of the Raphael is the keyboard, if you really need one:
1. The screen resolution of the iphone is not VGA, but the screen size is bigger (3.5 against 2.8) and this is a big advantage. The screen quality is great and the keyboard is bigger because of the size, so for many people it is not a problem to type.
2. Programs start much faster on iphone. Yes, they do!
3. The OS is much more stable for the moment. Plus, iphone comes with a stable version of a web browser, not with a beta version of Opera (which I like, but still it is beta!).
4. The iphone is really easy to use.
Cheers,
Eriol
Eriol said:
I will go for the Raphael because of this great forum here, but as far as I have compared these two phones in action I must say that at this moment the only advantage of the Raphael is the keyboard, if you really need one:
1. The screen resolution of the iphone is not VGA, but the screen size is bigger (3.5 against 2.8) and this is a big advantage. The screen quality is great and the keyboard is bigger because of the size, so for many people it is not a problem to type.
2. Programs start much faster on iphone. Yes, they do!
3. The OS is much more stable for the moment. Plus, iphone comes with a stable version of a web browser, not with a beta version of Opera (which I like, but still it is beta!).
4. The iphone is really easy to use.
Cheers,
Eriol
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Click to collapse
I also agree with Eriols arguments. The program starting part can be quick on HTC i think that depends on how your ROM is configured.
Eriol said:
I will go for the Raphael because of this great forum here, but as far as I have compared these two phones in action I must say that at this moment the only advantage of the Raphael is the keyboard, if you really need one:
1. The screen resolution of the iphone is not VGA, but the screen size is bigger (3.5 against 2.8) and this is a big advantage. The screen quality is great and the keyboard is bigger because of the size, so for many people it is not a problem to type.
2. Programs start much faster on iphone. Yes, they do!
3. The OS is much more stable for the moment. Plus, iphone comes with a stable version of a web browser, not with a beta version of Opera (which I like, but still it is beta!).
4. The iphone is really easy to use.
Cheers,
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that brings it back to what WatskeBart said earlier about the iphone being a gadget not a power house phone. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against the iphone i think the hardware is excellent for a second try but there need to be some tweaking. They should open up the software and do like google did for andriod offer 10k for the best iphone progs.
I'm not sure if someone has done a thread like this before but I wanted to know your personal experiences on these 3 devices:
1. N900
2. HD2
3. Nexus 1
Only comment if you own the phones and list what you like or don't like about it. Thanks
I have the n900. It is pretty bad ass. I love the multitasking and flash web browsing. I can access sites like justin.tv with no problems. One thing that is lacking is the amount of good apps available. Which is normal considering its still early in its stages. But with flash, anything that available in apps, I can get from a website. I still prefer apps though. Having android withdrawls after recently dropping my g1. The n900 made a great companion to the G1. I now plan to get the N1 when I am availble for upgrade and use that in companion with the n900.
n900
I've had the N900 since it was released. It is an amazing device, but it has quite a few limitations. I was a previous HTC TYTN II owner and a soon to be Touch Pro2 owner. I am thinking about switching to the Touch Pro2 and selling my N900 for a couple of reasons. The N900 is an extremely powerful device with a ton of potential. However, with MeeGo coming out, slow firmware updates, etc. I am not sure that it is the best choice over the HD2 or Nexus One.
Limitations From my POV (reasons I may switch back to WM)
-Sync with Google/Ovi is incomplete/not working unless you use a 3rd party solution
-Landscape only!!! This can get really annoying while doing things such as driving
-Limited app selection - Missing MANY important things: Google Maps is a good example (Ovi Maps isn't very good)
-Maybe not a true smartphone? - The built-in PIM functions feel really limited in scope when compared to WM and S60 (not sure about android)
-Keyboard is OK, but it is a bit cramped - it doesn't slide out very far and it only has 3 rows
-Expensive ~$500 - You can find a Touch Pro2 for as low as $275 or less if you shop around
-The hardware inside is amazing and it 'looks' nice, but the casing feels average if not somewhat cheap for such an expensive device
Other things to think about
-Maemo browser is amazing, but Opera 10 for WM is pretty much just as good, w/ the exception of Flash
-Maemo has a great interface and multi-tasking
-automatic application updates and a good amount of free applications that are centrally located (easy to find)
-N900 has 32GB built in - although 16GB cards and soon 32GB cards will be available soon
-N900's Camera and screen are amazing
Basically what it comes down to is that the N900 has AMAZING hardware specs and performs well, but Maemo is really incomplete and its future on the N900 is unknown with MeeGo coming up. Also don't forget to factor in limited application selection and sync abilities (syncML doesn't exist OTA on N900).
EDIT: I forgot to add, that I guess the main deciding factor in me choosing the Touch Pro2 may have been cost as well. Its hard to carry around something so expensive, worrying about messing it up or losing it. Swapping phones w/ TP2 would save me ~$250. If I were you I'd choose the Nexus One as Android really is looking to be the big future platform to compete with iPhone, but this phone is somewhat expensive as well.
you like carrying around two phones? I hate it, and when I don't use one of my other phones I miss it. I have a HTC Touch HD WM 6.5, NOkia E71 (my love) and just ordered n900. I'm hoping n900 pleases me, if not then I'll go for N1.
Does the n900 lag? someone told me that when you have multiple sms's going, the internet, and music it lags and skips and what not. I hope this isn't the case. I like the actual keyboard, which is one of the main reasons I'm getting it, but I also like N1s voice activated sms and etc. I guess I'll just wait and see!
Thanks for your input
It has a tiny tiny amount of lag when switching programs and all that but its nothing bad at all considering the abilities of the phone (n900).
But I only plan on carrying one device at a time. I just got the touch pro2 so once I decide which to keep I'll sell the other.
well if you're ever interested in the HTC touch HD running WM 6.5 let me know I'm trying to sell mine
I'm very happy with the Nexus One...it rocks! See it's forum section for full details & advantages.
giggles33 said:
you like carrying around two phones? I hate it, and when I don't use one of my other phones I miss it. I have a HTC Touch HD WM 6.5, NOkia E71 (my love) and just ordered n900. I'm hoping n900 pleases me, if not then I'll go for N1.
Does the n900 lag? someone told me that when you have multiple sms's going, the internet, and music it lags and skips and what not. I hope this isn't the case. I like the actual keyboard, which is one of the main reasons I'm getting it, but I also like N1s voice activated sms and etc. I guess I'll just wait and see!
Thanks for your input
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I don't mind carrying around two phones. One is for regular calls and the other is for "business" calls (got to keep the feds off me! ). As for lag, I have not noticed it. I've ran multiple web pages with flash video, AIM, app manager, internet radio and took photos all at the same time with no lag.
I simply loooove the n900!!!
If you want the Nexus One, I suggest you to wait for HTC Desire, it's the HTC version of Nexus One, expect if you love the nexus one design.
PS: N900!
Just wondering why you chose Fuze/Touch-pro over Iphone.
For me 3 major reasons in order of importance:
Size: I just cannot accept the size of an Iphone. I believe in a small device with great capabilities that will nicely fit in my pocket.
Bluetooth Stereo: Bluetooth A2DP support was NOT native to Iphone at that time. Did not want to add and an UGLY connector to get bluetooth music streaming either
Not an Iphone fan boy: Never carried an Ipod nor had a Mac. Its too overrated and is more of a fashion statement. I just cant see the cool factor in Apple products.
Whats your reason?
#1: this forum
#2: can't type texts without a hardware keyboard when i'm drunk
#3: tp is my 3rd htc phone
price would also be a factor
iphones without a tariff is a lot more expensive then a touch pro without a tariff
Welll, in random order
#: xda-devs support
#: custom roms
#: HTC user since 2005
#: size and h/w keyboard
and most of all
#: never was a fan of (maybe powerful but) overrated trendy devices over powerful business ones, end of story.
iPhone may be a "powerful" device, which can provide a similar experience to WM (or even better, that's a subjective matter). However the fact that the device itself is locked, and does not allow you to experience it fully (and I mean things which are supposed to be standard in smartphones, like multitasking) without jailbreaking it, tells me one thing and one thing only: that Apple does not respect it's customers.
For me it was a matter of carrier, and the 5-way navigator, because aside from those factors my Touch Pro is almost the same as an iPhone anyways with all the skins and mods
1. iPhone is 44% higher than my Touch Pro discounted Sprint monthly Everything Plan.
2. iPhone doesn't have a physical keyboard vs. huge Touch Pro keys.
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.
Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.
VibrantRedGT said:
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.
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^^^^THIS^^^^
nagle3092 said:
Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.
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I'm sorry.....but April fools was on the 1st.
For myself it's all of what this guy says (from 3:40-4:00) in this iphone review "The Gadget Show" on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bumP10hUaVs, and more.
When I think of iphone...I can't help of think of the Will Smith movie iRobot. I have thoughts of Apple trying to brain wash me into thinking that it's the only phone I need and I don't need to think for myself because "there's an app for that". It want's me to drop my guard and completely trust that it can run my life with only finger swipes across the screen yet.....it will not let me have a close relationship with by shutting me out of it's inner workings (battery replacement, removable storage). It try's to keep me hanging by a thread just strong enough to stay attached for a new version with "innovative" abilities like "copy and paste". It's true colors are hard to see through it's colorful ads and apps.
1: size
2: its need to always be on the net
3: can't sync calendar, contacts w/out using iTunes, which I cannot stand
4: can't multitask apps
I have both a fuze and an iPhone 3G (from my son when he moved to 3Gs.) Both phones are jail broken, so I decided to use the iPhone with an international SIM while traveling. I was really (&**&(*^( t'd off when I noticed that it always connects, thus incurring international data roaming charges. There's no way to make it not "call home" for one reason or another (checking if there's something new in app store, etc.) unless you tweak connectivity, block almost every app, or install some "firewall" to block all traffic. That just sucks if you travel a lot. ATT warned me, but I didn't think it was that bad.
International roaming data charges are nothing to mess with. I've never used an iphone, but I've heard that many of the apps are web-based widgets. One of the problems with not having things like a native file explorer is that if you download an app, you can't look in program files to see what the hell you just downloaded. You'd know if it was just a web app on winmo pretty easily, but I'm sure it's hard to keep track of everything loaded on an iphone.
I went from an iphone 3G to a Fuze to a 3GS to a Tilt2 back to a Fuze with a Bold 9000 in there at some point as well.
I can't do without the physical keypad. I email on the go a lot with my phone, and I just can't get used to virtual keyboards. Just can't do it. I'm also a sports nut, so browser navigating ability needs to be on point, meaning I need a touch screen. Now, I'll admit the iPhone's capacative touch screen beats the hell out of the pressure sensitive ones, although they'll get a lot better with some of the tweaks and ROMs available. There's no lag when you use the iphone's screen (although the newest ROMs for the Fuze have done a great job closing that gap, but it's still very much present). I miss that and the myriad of apps.
I really do hate Apple, what they did with the priority bandwidth with AT&T, and the fact they can't and absolutely won't support flash, along with that internal battery and no storage card. They could easily provide these features, but they don't simply because they don't HAVE to in order to sell the product. But, the iphone does what it does incredibly well. I'll concede to that.
I went back to the Fuze from my Tilt2 because I was pretty pissed that the hardware wasn't really upgraded much between those models. That was an unpleasant surprise. Also, the Fuze is SOLID. It's a beast, the tracks don't have tight tolerances, and the case is thick with robust corners. Plus, the Android development for the Fuze seemed to be further along than for the Tilt2. Also, when typing on the hardware keyboard for the Raphael, your thumbs do all the moving, and your hands don't. The Rhodium's bigger layout is nicer in that you hit the wrong key much less; however, you're moving your hands a lot too. I didn't like that. ROMs are also getting ridiculously good for WinMo devices.
Let's be honest; what the iPhone does, it does incredibly well, and if I didn't have needs (HW keypad) that it didn't meet, I would still have it, even though the Apple logo itself makes me want to kill a hippie every time I see it.
1. I'm used to Windows Mobile, having used it on a PDA for several years
2. Getting a refurbished Fuze through AT&T with an Employee Purchase and a 2 year contract brought the price of the Fuze down to a rather attractive $0.
Fate was kind to me. I'm glad to have stumbled upon the Fuze.
Mainly the Hardware Keyboard, but all-in-all, I simply love HTC devices.
Oh, and the Hardware Specs were actually pretty good for the Fuze, not the best, but for a device with a hardware keyboard, not bad.
I originally bought my Fuze because of the hardware keyboard. 6 months later, I bought an iPhone 3GS. I liked the Fuze for the most part, I just couldn't take WM anymore. With the stock firmware, my battery would not last a day. Timlol's stock like firmware made the battery life bearable and the device much more usable. But in the end, it was the limitations of WM that made me switch. It is nice having a browser that works, a mail client that can display messages and not move to the next message when you accidently move your finger sideways, a well stocked app store and a touchscreen that actually responds properly to touch.
I still have my Fuze and will use it to play around with the current Android project, but for day to day use as a phone and data device, the iPhone is it.
On your poll it was a hard toss-up between "Hate Apple products" and the "Other options (cooked ROMs, Android etc)".
My biggest factor was that it was more open to open source and cracked (aka free) software, and more moddifications that could be done to the firmware. The reason this could be done is because its not an Apple product.
I have a tytnII that I can't stand anymore. I was considering the EVO4G GSm version when it arrives, but it didn't impress me (specifically the screen quality) so onwards I go. Iphone 4 seems like the most normal phone visually, but I don't want to give steve any money so for a defective phone so i'm waiting. There is nothing out there I would be happy to buy..nothing even to consider..
When will the following speced phones come out?:
-720p screen 4"+
-1080p video capture or excellent quality 720p. HDMI out.
-a quality 10mp+ camera
-1.5ghz or dual core cpu's or tegra 2. it seems no matter that a ghz cpu is in phones today there's horrible lag..iphone uses a weaker cpu and has almost no lag..Something I can't understand.
Iphone has an excellent GPU, and uses it to make scrolling, tabs, etc more realistic, and faster.
Sadly, the tytn2 has a very fast GPU, without drivers. Skrew htc for that. Some guys at htcclassaction tried to develop 3d acceleration for it but nobody has ever seen the full untapped potential of the tytn2.
That's why the iphone can run games really fast.
Wm phones also have a tendency of slowing down the more you use them, you know - usually 3rd party programs do not clean up well after a big mess in they create in the registry
Did you try installing VanilJ's Android Eclair to your kaiser? no lag on that, and it works great. And dont forget you can overclock it to 486mhz.(rogue tools)
As for a new phone with those specs.... forget it lol, Get a netbook if you want that kind of thing. for now.
Technically speaking, Qualcomm HAS developed new system-on-a-chips, capable of most of your desired specs.
Here's an interview with Qualcomm about the new processors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCOD59yh0dY
My speculation: There is no doubt these phones will come out, every company wants the biggest, baddest m-effer out there. It will be in the early months of next year, MAYBE around February(?). Nobody really knows though.
I've never used an iphone before and my brother who is a diehard htc fan(and previous very anti iphone) HD2/HD touch, now uses the iphone and is waiting for stock to get an iphone 4. I might get his iphone 3gs.
screw HTC for lack of driver for the TYTNII is 100% correct which really makes me think twice before I would go with an HTC product again. the classaction was a waste of time. Nothing came out of it..what a shame. there was a huge push but nothing moved..
Microsoft had 10 years to be the leader and develop the crap OS and now the fact theyre loosing sales is something they deserve. I hope WP7 fails. windows mobile- no more for me..never again.
Android has a lot of potential but the fact that there's no standard between phones is a problem, and it shows. I mean look at these people slapping 1ghz cpus in and still lag. iphone is the smoothest running phone out there, hands down no argument whatsoever. It's optimized to run with those specific hardware specs and it just works, and it does it VERY well. almost no lag, and gaming like on a PSP..amazing. But like I said I'm not giving steve money for an antenna defect and iphones that overheat and light on fire.
I will take a look at the android rom..do you happen to have a link for the rom/rogue tools? I'm a bit scared to flash my phone but have been really interested in doing it for a while now. I'll have to get my Nokia n86 unlocked so I can have a phone if I brick mine.
btw, didn't motorola say they would put out a phone by the end of the year with these specs? I mean the tech is there, what's holding these companies from not slapping a tegra2/dual cpu in a phone for full performance?
look at all the phones, all 720p video /5mp /1ghz/ hdmi /400x800 but none are lookers- all the same performers with horrible lag.
The sony x10 was the one that took the first step with the above specs I think, and it's the one I followed closely but it took them forever to release it and they lost momentum. IMO it's a big failure. Also those who bought the x10 will get an android 2.1 update 6 months after..can you believe that..by the time they release 2.1, 2.2 will be out before.
Then the evo popped up, but seeing it's screen compared to the iphone 4 made me realize it's not all that. Also the video and camera are worse than the iphone. HTC is always lacking in the camera dept IMO.
I did kinda looked into the Dell streak but with the HORRIBLE lag I realize dell has great things to come..dell is a dying company..check this review:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3853/the-dell-streak-review/1
read "the performance problem" reminds me exactly of my tytnII.
How the hell is this..a 1 ghz processor, the product isn't even released and it has horrible performance issues..don't these retarded companies test these products beforehand and say this lag is unacceptable? there's nothing more that gets me fired up then waiting 3 seconds for the tytnII to cancel a phone. I press the button 7-10 times but it has all the time in the world..it's right then I want to smash the phone to the floor.
I did consider the Nokia N8 at 1 time but the screen spec turned me away really quick.
I did look at Samsungs I9000 but it too is a disappointment with the lag it has.
I guess if Apple would fix the overheating/antenna issue I will go with them, otherwise I'll wait and see if I can flash my tytn to android and will wait. The day I get a new phone I'm video myself smashing the phone against the wall and sending it to HTC with a bag of my dogs poop inside..I'm not kidding.
Give me a tegra2 phone and stand back..
baddest m-effer out there
HA HA..nice..
I used an iPhone 2g for the longest time on T-Mobile's EDGE network...I liked it because the music player was so nicely integrated into the device. I also liked how effortless the syncing was with iTunes, and most of the development/hacking was mac based. But then a guy named "planetbeing" ported android to it...and, well, here I am.
I'm now using a nexus one, and I'm actually pretty damn pleased with it, if I do say so myself . iOS may have been prettier, but I love the Android UI...Widgets, open-source...
The best part about the nexus is having Google's lovechild in me pocket...Early OTA updates, a HUGE community base, etc...
Iphones the only real option out there today, and I hate apple..I won't give in an buy a defective phone where the only thing he's willing to do (steve, at least be sincere about offering the dumb bumpers, and don't act like youre doing youre customers a favor..btw, haven't you ever heard of a recall?) is offer a stupid piece of plastic which ruins the aesthetics of the phone..
well like you and Malt said, I will have to wait..I'm hoping something around november will come..
untill you get your future phone....
remember, the tytn2 slows down if you install loads of crap on it. I downloaded a program called clean ram which helps a bit, but nothing beats a nice clean hard reset. If you install a program, then uninstall it, it WILL STILL HELP SLOW DOWN YOUR MOBILE. It adds up. Only with a hard reset can this be resolved.
You can download rogue tools on the android market, once you got it installed, it works nice.
VanilJ's android rom works really good for the kaiser, with the exception that the camera, and any other programs that use it, don't work. But believe me, it's a price veeeeeeeery well payed. Once you flush it, you won't be sorry.
Speaking of 3d drivers, android has opengl acceleration. And it's very good. I played quake3 multiplayer 30fps on my kaiser vs my brother on it( on lowest settings, but hey )
After 1 month using this rom however, it also started slowing down. So here are some of my suggestions.
1. Don't install unnecessary crap widgets. Each one will slow down your tytn2. I still use Calendar(Agenda widget), email, DigiClock and News though. Theyre just too usefull! ^^
2. It will basically turn your kaiser into a toy to show off to your friends. Sure its really cool and fast. But as for buisness there is NO outlook contacts/ calendar support, and once you leave windows mobile you will realize how comfortable your calendar was, and you will (don't quote me ) suddenly start to miss active sync. lol yeah. It was the only thing microsoft got right. Sort of.
But anyway, there is an alternative, it syncs through google contacts, gmail etc.
It is far worse than activesync, considering that you always need internet access, and that you are providing google with your business info. The appointments etc don't show up on the main screen without widgets. You will miss your calendar's colours and features :\
3. If it gets unreliable, drop your tytn2 at a height of 400metres, and it should all work fine again.
Anyway, on the whole I am pleased with it. You will be amazed if you try it.
And one more very important thing - hold the internet explorer button to switch between programs. press it to go to home. took me a week to figure out.