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I have Purchased the G1 Thinking the overall architecture of Open Source Application, Android API, Equality of Application bla bla.
But after see the Handset i think it only Open for Source Code
neither we can create own on Modified Images nor we can change the Device at Root level. Its same f*cking thing like Apple iPhone Jailed and no Root Access.
We got some Android SDK but whats the use we can Create same Application for iPhone and Windows Mobile also. Infact in WinMob we have thousand of Software running nicely.
I am very Disappointed the way G1 is Locked with the Open Source OS.
i think in the name of Openess G1 device have locked everybuddy to f**k around with T-Mobile and Google only Service. Android Market have very Little apps which can Surprise me after all that hype of Software Availability. Infact 1st Generation iPhone had more Application which Developers have Developed without help of any SDK from Apple. G1 really sucks.
Well, i regret that fact too, but in fairness they never said the device would be open. What they said was "You can make your own device and use Android on it".
It's sad that T-Mo didn't get the "open" part but in all case my hopes are with chinese device manufacturer who don't care for 5 minutes what you do with their hardware as long as you buy it. Or maybe OpenMoko but their design is really ugly
Okay, being able to type commands on the keyboard and have them executed as root from anywhere on the device IS NOT SAFE.
What happens when someone tells you to type rm -rf / and hit enter? Brick? YES from anywhere on the device. Even from the lock screen.
They are not locking down the phone again, they are fixing a MAJOR bug. The phone is not "Jailed."
its said when god closes doors he opens new ones
Since the door is closed, how to put your own native lib to the system? Is there any way to use native lib?
sadly i find both Android and iPhone OS as restrictive.
because nope of Future Manufacturer is gonna allow us the Flash the Customised Android to Phone unless we know the Private Key of that Manufacturer. There is nore of Legal way to do much powerfull Developements in Kernal , drivers or boot loader of Android etc. What we got is that Ugly ADB thing which itself is so much Restrictive. I feel like am developing the software again as what we have done in Java on Mobile for Sony Ericson etc.
Google could have offered us a Safe but Power full access to hardware for Customized OS. and they could also have safeguarded device from Possibly bricking by bad flashing.
I think Phone OS should more like Installing Linux / Windows into Computer rather then Boot loader and so on.
hetaldp said:
I have Purchased the G1 Thinking the overall architecture of Open Source Application, Android API, Equality of Application bla bla.
But after see the Handset i think it only Open for Source Code
neither we can create own on Modified Images nor we can change the Device at Root level. Its same f*cking thing like Apple iPhone Jailed and no Root Access.
We got some Android SDK but whats the use we can Create same Application for iPhone and Windows Mobile also. Infact in WinMob we have thousand of Software running nicely.
I am very Disappointed the way G1 is Locked with the Open Source OS.
i think in the name of Openess G1 device have locked everybuddy to f**k around with T-Mobile and Google only Service. Android Market have very Little apps which can Surprise me after all that hype of Software Availability. Infact 1st Generation iPhone had more Application which Developers have Developed without help of any SDK from Apple. G1 really sucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I also miss a lot of stuff in G1 at least. System is so powerful, but closed, only thing in G1 is you can change batter if necessary and put bigger size transflash. I miss SIP, for every text entry I have to type using keyboard everytime. The other major issue, which Kaiser (Tilt) addressed very well, is removing battery cover to change SIM card. I have good number of Windows Mobile phones and iPhone before G1. I take different phone, whatever matches my belt or whatever I feel like, and changing SIM card is pain except for Kaiser and iPhone. G1 taking out the battery cover is so bad, it is like having older Dell desktop lying under the table and plugging a usb device. For older dell lattitudes, you have to knee down and push your usb cable angularly, otherwise it would either screw the usb port or you could push it for good time. The same goes to G1, you have open the keyboard, push the latch little and push your battery cover slowly to righside. Not a good idea, if you change phones daily like me.
Like the other one said, if you have root privileges, you could brick your device, if you don't have one, you don't know what you are doing. TMob and HTC screwed Google big time on this. I don't know how much control Google has on device makers and carriers. I see same pattern that Microsoft is struggling with WinMo devices here. At least in the case of Microsoft, we can easily play around devices without bricking like writing apps is easy, finding apps is easy and hacking device without bricking easy, at least if somebody doesn't have time to hack, they could easily look at our forum (XDA) and be creative.
my 2 cents.
--Ram--
I hate to say it but 99.9% of the customers T-Mobile is marketing don't care about having root access or installing operating systems on their phone or having easy access to their SIM card. I'm a programmer and I don't even care about that kind of stuff for my phone. The difference between this and something like the iphone is that you can write an app to replace pretty much anything you see on any screen on the phone and post it in the marketplace. Even with things like an on-screen keyboard there's no reason why it can't be done, there's just nobody who's made one yet. Hell, we already see apps that won't ever exist for non-hacked iphones(the 3 or 4 video players out there, tunewiki and other audio players, AndNav and things like the app that turns on your screen when you get an SMS message). If you really care about that stuff, return your G1 and get a OpenMoko or something similar.
I'm interested to see what the future holds for factory unlocked Android devices. Maybe T-Mobile decided the G1 cant be offered unless they have control over the firmware. When the handset manufacturer isn't tied down to these restrictions, it is possible that will grant root access by default.
As far as the possibility of bricking the phone, that is a stupid argument IMO. First of all, its my phone which I paid for which should give me the right to do what I want with it. Second of all, it should be brick proof to begin with. If I completely corrupt the filesystem, I should be able to go into the bootloader and and flash a new image to the device.
So in this thread it tells you how to install pc operating systems like windows and linux on the Evo 3D.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459153
This, is freaking awesome. This one is a big breakthrough.
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Here is the thread in the Nook Color forums for ubuntu on the device:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1055954
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These two threads are native installs, not using some client to access the installation, the device itself is the client as it should be.
This is not some chrooted virtual OS simulation, but the real deal installed to the device.
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In the back of my mind i've wanted to play with ubuntu installed on the MT4GS, but not a virtual installation I want it installed and running on the device natively.
I definitely don't have the time to do this and a lot i'm trying to do around here even if I wasn't in my busy season for work.
Dropping this information so I can find it later when I do get to trying to get ubuntu (and now windows XP looks like a possibility) installed on this device.
If anyone else feels like looking into this, here's a good place to start. If anyone comes across any other projects that are the real deal and not virtual installs please post links here.
Have fun!
Blue6IX said:
So in this thread it tells you how to install pc operating systems like windows and linux on the Evo 3D.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459153
This, is freaking awesome. This one is a big breakthrough.
----
Here is the thread in the Nook Color forums for ubuntu on the device:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1055954
----
These two threads are native installs, not using some client to access the installation, the device itself is the client as it should be.
This is not some chrooted virtual OS simulation, but the real deal installed to the device.
----
In the back of my mind i've wanted to play with ubuntu installed on the MT4GS, but not a virtual installation I want it installed and running on the device natively.
I definitely don't have the time to do this and a lot i'm trying to do around here even if I wasn't in my busy season for work.
Dropping this information so I can find it later when I do get to trying to get ubuntu (and now windows XP looks like a possibility) installed on this device.
If anyone else feels like looking into this, here's a good place to start. If anyone comes across any other projects that are the real deal and not virtual installs please post links here.
Have fun!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regardless of what impression you may have, it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to run MSWin on ARM hardware natively. The reason for this is that MSWin is x86 and ARM is... ARM. The approach used in the first link is to use BOCHS (pronounced "Box"), which is a VIRTUAL HARDWARE EMULATOR. It requires a host operating system to be functioning in the background, in this case Linux.
As for Ubuntu... well sure. No problem. Its Linux and the phone runs Linux. Not that big of a stretch to replace the Android parts with GNU.
Note that NONE of this is any kind of "great breakthrough". Bochs has been around for a VERY long time. First OPEN SOURCED in early 2000. Yeah, 12 years ago. As for Ubuntu... well I suppose that the main reason that most people aren't making a native android replacement out of ubuntu, is that not many people are all that interested in it. Cute in theory, but not practical.
What would be a more worthy project would be to upgrade android to GNU libraries and utilities. This would afford us an actually USEFUL balance between the two. Also the ability to run X *through* android without having to do stupid things like VNC. Have the proper interface ***AS AN ANDROID APPLICATION***, leaving Android to work (i.e., phone calls, etc.) while simultaneously offering the standard Linux applications.
My thought though, is that this is becoming less and less important. Firefox is on Android now, the Document foundation has announced LibreOffice for Android -- supposed to be by late 2012 to early 2013... GIMP has no place on Android... That certainly covers the basics.
Appreciate the post. I didn't have time to dig into it too deeply, so took it at face value for the impression I got. Happened to come across it in passing and didn't want to lose track of something vital to the future dev of a project like this on the doubleshot. (but definitely this doesn't belong in the dev section at this time - just clutter there.)
I was hoping people would add to it, especially the way you have, who had more of an understanding of what's going on there - I didn't realize that it was a virtual environment for the windows stuff, but it did seem to good to be true.
Even if no one responded I figured the thread would get pushed down out of the way, but still be here when I got the time to come back to it.
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My reason for running native linux on the device itself is to be able to use the Android SDK and tools without needing a computer to do so. I have 2 of these phones and a Nook Color. The NC has USB host support, so I could plug the doubleshot into it without frying either device. (yes, i'm blending android and linux concepts here - but usb host support in android shows that it's capable of doing it)
Even from one doubleshot to the other I could use wifi adb for a lot of stuff without plugging them into each other through USB and frying the phones. So that would be a victory as well.
The lack of a hardware charging circuit in the doubleshot makes the worry of frying the phones a big deal, power transfer through USB is a big hurdle to jump in management.
Beyond that - the doubleshot is powerful enough on hardware specs to be able to compile a kernel, but that's not gonna happen through a virtual linux install because the overhead is too much. A native install might just be able to do it though. Won't know until I try, but it's worth the work to get to the point of trying, even if it doesn't work out.
The Nook Color probably won't be able to compile a kernel - it's asking too much from a device not really able to handle that.
Getting what I mentioned above to work would mean I could do all my dev work with what fits in my pocket, and let me keep working wherever I am.
I do like the idea of an app to work with this through Android itself - but I don't see how I could use the SDk and variety of user-created tools without a native linux install. Worth pursuing either way though.
If anyone has anything to add, i'd be welcome to hear it. Just understand this is not a project i'm working on or actively pursuing right now - but fully intend to down the line.
Actually blue. There is a thread somewhere that has a step by step on installing ubuntu on gingerbread. I meant to add it when I added the backtrack link. For some reason I didn't, I probably forgot, I actually think the link for it is in the backtrack thread in the sticky.
If I do find it ill let you know.
Sent from my ICS Splashed using Tapatalk
Hello! I'm a semi-competent programmer (been doing it for fun and profit for the last few years) and I do almost everything in Linux (and in Python/Java).
When I started working with Linux I wanted to learn everything about it, but I was an idiot when I started (probably still am) and didn't understand much of what I was reading so I focused on my programming skills instead of the OS itself.
When I first got an android device (xmas present from my girlfriend about a year ago), I looked at her like she was nuts, "WTH would I want one of them for? Thanks, though." Soon after, I loved the Samsung Galaxy Player 5 (YP-G70 Gingerbread 2.3.5 API level 10) she got me, and started learning how to write useful programs on it, and also stuck several thousand PDF copies of books on it so I could always learn wherever I went.
I had a dream, though, to totally customize it. Every sound, button, box, and bar and especially the boot/shutdown animations, made by me.
In doing so, I hope to learn a ton about embedded Linux and android.
So I started reading through everything I could find about development for Android (especially all the google docs) and my device in particular.
I've confirmed with myself that a so-called "hard-brick" is all but certain, and I will simply buy a new device or take the time to learn how to reflash through a JTAG interface, or both. (Actually, the JTAG would be my preferred option. I've done SOME work with JTAGs before, but didn't understand what I was doing at the time. Thank God for written language, the internet and smarter people than myself!)
I have some questions before I go blowing stuff up, though...
I want to compile Android from source (after making some adjustments, of course!) and flash it to my device. Per the google docs, fastboot makes that pretty easy to do, but per the dozen or so threads on XDA that I've read about fastboot on a SGP5, fastboot isn't available and I'll need to use someone elses stuff to make it work (eg, the great works of Cyanogen).
My question is:
Is it possible to put vanilla AOSP on an SGP5? Is it "possible" like it's "possible" to go to the moon (eg, I'll be reverse engineering the GPU/WIFI/etc hardware and writing drivers for them from scratch?)
Obviously Cyanogen and others have figured it out, and that probably means I could start with his work, but there's a ton of stuff on his github account and none of it speaks about my device specifically.
tl;dr
Basically, if I want to build my own super-minimal Android 2.3.5 distro that will run on a SGP5, whose branch of AOSP am I looking for?
Also, if I did manage to figure out the JTAG interface, I could, say, flash the engineering bootloader to the device and use fastboot, right? Is there another way to achieve this/remove all traces of Samsung?
Thanks!
It is possible to get 3 different phones with ubuntu phone now, none of them too expensive.
good.
i wonder what people's experience or informed opinion is?
ubuntu is pushing "convergence", which basically means that one operating system runs on all devices, that i can use my smartphone as a computer...
how far along is it?
now there's loads of blog articles and reviews out there, but most of them focus on comparing ubuntu phone (UP from now on) to other phone OSs - with their fully grown app universe. of course UP comes up short!
but that's not what i'm interested in. OS stability, and the standard browsing, music and video, and of course phone and sms is good enough for me.
but, i want the same freedom i have with my linux desktop install: to Do Things.
(my most important project is still to get a usable connection to the data & media stored on my kitchenserver.)
the day before yesterday i had a chat with someone on #ubuntu-phone - i think it was a dev.
i asked if i can use & upgrade it like any normal ubuntu/debian-based, install apps and utilities and so on.
basically he said, gui apps are difficult because UP uses a different gui model than Xorg, but basically yes, but you loose you guarantee that OTA (over the air) updates will work. but they should, regardless.
yesterday i was browsing the ubuntu phone section on ubuntu forums; of course people only post if something doesn't work - it looks like a normal and healthy distro forum to me.
OTA updates come in almost daily, i gather. very lively development.
there was, however, a lot of familiar discussions about how to get some app or other working; familiar from my 2 android phones: convoluted and fragile solutions, like installing ubuntu desktop in a chroot.
UP even recommends adb (android debug bridge?) as the only way to access the phone from your computer. or the standard mtp connection. so it's the same **** as everywhere.
the other aspect is this:
- ok, android is big, evil google, but there's a few established solutions around to use it without an account, use f-droid instead of play store, well documented security hacks and so on.
- UP certainly isn't the white knight here, but if not google, what do they use, is it really "better" than google and can i opt out easily?
yes, i am seriously considering to buy a UP phone, as soon as i get the feeling that it is an improvement freedom and security wise.
i wonder what people's experience or informed opinion is?
bump
...just a gentle one before the weekend ends.
i'd love to get some answers...
First off, I wanted to say I posted a few threads about this thing here asking questions about stuff I needed to get it working in the way I'd like and I'd want to thank you because I have made a lot of progress in getting it to be what I'd like it to be. I also don't know if this is the best forum to post this report because it's neither a question nor necessarily a tutorial but rather a summary and description of work already done so far, and especially because this device, while it sure runs Android (very well!) does not fit into any of the categories on this site neatly.
The story so far
This post concerns my experience working with the ITX-3588J, a board released just a few months ago by the Chinese manufacturer Firefly (or T-Chip Intelligent Technology Co. Ltd, based in Zhongshan) that is in the coveted mini-ITX form factor which means it can actually fit into a small-size desktop computer case and indeed has enough compute power to theoretically - and perhaps not so theoretically! - function as an honest desktop system with an ARM processor: namely the - also very new - Rockchip RK3588 system-on-a-chip.
About two months ago, I was looking into acquiring a new kind of computer to replace my somewhat longer on the tooth x86 machine that would be compact, low-power, and easy to transport while also being a fully capable desktop. And I certainly didn't want Apple. I had seen some very small form x86 desktops before, but I also knew there were many boards - like Raspberry Pi - that featured the ARM processor. Not content with the Pi, which is still very weak for this application at least when compared against modern software, I wanted to see if there was something else by now in a similar vein, and when I saw this board I thought it was an amazing option, esp. given I have not yet found a peer. Many ARM single-board devices exist but this is the only one I've found so far that looks to be in a proper desktop form factor and sporting a processor powerful enough to work at that level.
So I got the board, a case, and - noting it had SATA ports - a cheap 250 GB SSD, and put it all together ... and fired it up! And to my surprise, it booted up Android! Which was a real shocker because I generally thought this'd be like another PC board, not having had much experience with this ecosystem beyond phones, so that it would just give the usual "OS not found" stuff. Nope - pre-loaded on the board. Very minimal, very bare-bones though, not even the Google Play and similar essentials required for a usable Android experience. Yet with the little bit I had, I couldn't help but notice it was extremely fluid, responsive, and snappy, moreso than my aging 2018 era x86 box. Moreover, it was very, very interesting (and exciting!) to see Android booted onto a full-size monitor screen like Linux or Microsoft Windows - and actually and surprisingly, to see that it didn't look and feel all that bad!
However, of course, I wanted more. First, I wanted a fully-featured installation of Android. Second, I wanted to run Linux on it - especially given that, a short while later, I found that the board manufacturers were offering a stock Ubuntu 20.04 to be installable to it. Although, in the early stages, I didn't know how to do this at all, and then soon after learned how to reflash the embedded MMC chip to change the OS. And I did so, trying the Ubuntu and finding it also very performant, but not liking either that it was not quite the newest version but also more that it was mutually exclusive with Android - so far.
And that would begin a long - and at many times frustrating, especially given how much information out there is not at all tuned to a device like this being pressed into this application - learning journey toward exploring topics as diverse as how ARM processors and SoCs work under the hood, U-Boot, kernel features, the Firefly-Rockchip developer kit - and having to essentially single-handedly discover many of that kit's ins and outs given there was pretty much no documentation - and more, ultimately leading to where I've got it to now.
What it can do at this point
And that is, right now, I have it sitting here, loaded up with the stock Android 12 and Ubuntu 20.04 - with the former on the eMMC and the latter on the SSD hard drive. On the Android side, Google Play is now loaded and functional, though Google Chrome is not (it crashes with a "Telephony is null" exception for some reason, which seems to suggest for some reason it's trying to act like it's on a phone but isn't). Zoom - an app that I really, really wanted to have (and why I wanted to keep Android around on it) - works and works smoother and cleaner than my 2018 x86 Linux clunker. On the Ubuntu side, though, things are not yet coming - mostly because of seeming inability to use U-Boot to boot from the SSD. I managed to install GRUB, and given that Firefly's generous board SDK provides the full U-Boot source code was able to recompile it with the necessary "bootefi" command enabled which is not present in stock, but nonetheless alas this U-Boot seems to have its SATA support bugged or incomplete, because it would crash immediately upon trying to initialize that subsystem.
Where I'd like to go with it
Obviously, full dual boot of Android and Ubuntu, so getting U-Boot to boot the GRUB resident on the hard drive, is the biggest issue so far, and that means investigating whatever is the problem (or not?) in its SATA subsystem. Getting Google Chrome working on Android is another important step. Moreover - though it would cost extra money that I do not have right now - there's the very interesting possibility, owing to the fact that it has a built in M.2 slot on the board, and alluded to in the title - that the device could be made to act as a cell phone. And finally, the possibility of upgrading to a newer version of Ubuntu (ideally 22.04) - however from what I know so far, it looks like this will have to wait because the stock Linux kernels do not currently support the RK3588 fully - though I'd suggest the Linux kernel developers really should take a look at the SDK that came with this thing because it has lots of code in it including for the kernel, all under GPL.
Final note
One of the most interesting things I've learned from this project, and mentioned earlier, is just how well Android seems to work as a desktop OS. While there have apparently been some attempts to port it to x86, this is perhaps one of the first devices that is desktop-workable and which runs it natively. And one of the things I find that's nice about it is that ironically, because all the apps are designed for small screens, when they are run on a very big screen (and this monitor is not "very big" even by today's monitor standards, being a used and earlier LCD type), they are extremely easy on the eyes and have minimal UI clutter when compared to a typical desktop app on most Linux WMs and on MS Windows.
If you want to know more about the details, or anything else, feel free to ask any questions you might have!
UPDATE:
I believe I may have found an easier way to dual-boot Linux with Android, and that consists of configuring a custom ROM that will put both kernels, and GRUB, on the board's eMMC, while the rootfs for both OSes is placed on the hard disk. Will be seeing how it works.
UPDATE:
I have almost completed the custom ROM! I have now both Android and at least the base system for Ubuntu 20.04 (Kernel 5.10.66) bootable with Android now storing user data on the hard drive; though I'm still running into some hardware initialization issues in the latter that are keeping me from actually installing the desktop system. With regard to the Ubuntu system, there is some interesting issue in that for some reason the provided SDK kernel, which I had to rebuild, seems to build more Android-like because it wants to look in "/vendor" for some things related seemingly to the networking facilities, and it is possible this is preventing me from bringing up wifi, which I need in order to download the rest of the system.
But lots of progress overall - it seems that a full-fledged ARM desktop running simultaneously Android and Ubuntu is within reach to be wrung from this board!
Ignore my request for an update in another post. Seems you like you moving along. I don't need dual boot, just a working Android 12 with GPlay and Chrome. Did you get Chrome to work?
mebalzer said:
Ignore my request for an update in another post. Seems you like you moving along. I don't need dual boot, just a working Android 12 with GPlay and Chrome. Did you get Chrome to work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Yeah, I want to say that I have pretty successfully gotten Android 12 working on it for sure, but Ubuntu is proving much more difficult due to graphics support issues, and I'm not sure if it will be possible until RK3588 is supported in the mainline Linux kernel tree which is still something under development. And yes! I got Chrome to work Everything works, actually - it's great as an Android system, though obviously Android is kinda funny to use as a desktop OS. I am wondering if I can't get a "pseudo" Linux using something like Linux Deploy in lieu of running it natively, at least until the kernel development catches up with this new processor.
(FWIW, I'm posting this post from that machine while it is running A12. )
Good to see someone else is interested in it, though. What are you planning on using yours for?
Insofar as getting Android 12 to work w/GApps - it depends on if you want to do it purely on the eMMC or you want to also put user data on an attached hard drive like I did. In either case, the best option, I feel, is to create a custom ROM - I could provide custom ROMs for it for download, but don't know because of Google's licensing conditions around the GApps and have heard of people getting in trouble with Google for distributing custom ROMs for phones that have GApps in them. You basically need to unpack the stock Android image, unpack the "super.img", then load the apps from a package like NikGApps into the "product" partition (NOT "oem" - that was a big mistake), then repack everything and flash to the eMMC again. You will need the board SDK from Firefly for all this as it has the custom ROM-packing and flashing tools.
Alternatively, it is possible to manually install the NikGApps GApps using the Android console - as it's a fully unlocked system, obtaining root access is trivial: just put it into Developer mode and you will find the root access in the "Developer options..." menu under "System".
Shimmy99 said:
Insofar as getting Android 12 to work w/GApps - it depends on if you want to do it purely on the eMMC or you want to also put user data on an attached hard drive like I did. In either case, the best option, I feel, is to create a custom ROM - I could provide custom ROMs for it for download, but don't know because of Google's licensing conditions around the GApps and have heard of people getting in trouble with Google for distributing custom ROMs for phones that have GApps in them. You basically need to unpack the stock Android image, unpack the "super.img", then load the apps from a package like NikGApps into the "product" partition (NOT "oem" - that was a big mistake), then repack everything and flash to the eMMC again. You will need the board SDK from Firefly for all this as it has the custom ROM-packing and flashing tools.
Alternatively, it is possible to manually install the NikGApps GApps using the Android console - as it's a fully unlocked system, obtaining root access is trivial: just put it into Developer mode and you will find the root access in the "Developer options..." menu under "System".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks I will keep this in mind. See my reply to you other reply on another post as well.
I would to run gplay as well please send me instruction the nikapps github doesnt say nothing