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Is there an application for the TP which allows for the device to be used as a HID over Bluetooth to control a desktop PC?
there are programs that let you control your desktop PC in various ways, but nothing specific for TP or the keyboard
Wow great idea, that would be nifty on my CarPC! I'm always looking for a smaller keyboard to fit there...
Can't be that hard, I'm sure someone can do that, with all the specialists we have here in this wonderful community
"can't be that hard"?
How did you come to this conclusion?
Educated guess? Or just guess?
Well it would need to modify a little bit the bluetooth stack and emulate a HID keyboard, I guess.
Tonight I'm the Jeremy Clarkson of the day, with his most famous quote: "how hard can it be?!" when obviously it is very hard to do...
So I absolutely don't mean it is an easy thing to do, but I'm sure some experts in XDA-Dev are skilled enough to do it.
Hey, a man can dream, right?
Another option is to use a program like VNC to pilot your pc from the your raphael.
Used to do it with my old ppc (Toshiba e830). This works only if the computer you want to control is also in the same network (connected either through LAN cable or wifi).
Yes, I'm aware of a number of remote control solutions, but they all require an application to be run on the PC to be controlled. I'm really looking for a solutions which is purely based on HID. Like the Sony Ericsson remote control feature on the new phones. Great for presentations and Media Player. Any ideas?
Not exactly what you were talking about but...
http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/
About the size of a lighter, and you can use it for you phone as well. (Picture attaching your phone to the TV in the back. Using your bluetooth to open a program on it. Then typing away on the scren with this "futuristic keyboard from the stars!!".... or something like that.)
that must be one of the most useless gadgets ever created
huge initial "wow" factor, but that is all
Useless? I don't know... over priced, and unnecessary maybe, but a portable full sized keyboard doesn't seem useless to me.
Have you tried it?
I have. Very stupid to tap a plain table, since you cannot feel anything (even the separation of the buttons) you make 60% mistakes.
Also, it is not even portable! You need a large flat surface to put it and to let it throw its beam.
(and one more thing to recharge)
I stand by my original wording.
nethopper said:
Yes, I'm aware of a number of remote control solutions, but they all require an application to be run on the PC to be controlled. I'm really looking for a solutions which is purely based on HID. Like the Sony Ericsson remote control feature on the new phones. Great for presentations and Media Player. Any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, HID implementation in Windows also includes programs and services that start with your windows. So if you have to install only 1 program to make it run I don't think it is a big deal.
It's 3 years I use my main computer this way. As I have a projector and don't want to start it every time I installed VNC server in my main computer (freeware) and VNC client in both my laptop and PPC, and it works pretty well (especially with Vista on my laptop, it runs pretty smooth).
@NLS:
Hmm, well from that description I will have to agree with you and add useless to my definition of the product as well.
@nethopper:
Yeah if you were looking for remote solutions I would suggest Logmein.com (the free version because I am cheap). If you want something that purely converts your phones keyboard into a computer keyboard... I found ( http://en.handybyte.com/cat/system-utilities/communications/blueremote/ ) for palm devices, this ( http://en.handybyte.com/cat/system-utilities/enhancements/ppc-tablet-remote-control-suite/ ) for ppc but over TCP/IP instead of bluetooth, and a patent showing that someone *Microsoft* is working/has worked on the idea ( http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0120448.html ) so the search continues
@FlippyTK: I'm aware of the VNC solution, but I'm really looking for something as slim and elegant as the software on the SE phones. There are situations where you don't want or can't install anything on the host PC.
@NetApex: Thanks, for the links. The MS patent is strange, how could they file something as obvious as this? There must be prior art... But the patent might be the reason why such a software does not exist. I guess everybody is afraid of the MS lawyers...
I'll keep searching, please let us know if you have the solution...
I'm not sure a pure HID solution is possible. If the Raphael keyboard is indeed a HID-capable device, then the phone itself is its host. Since you would have to go through the host (in this case, WM) to access the bluetooth stack, the most direct solution is a software "pass-through" program.
[edited]
The SE solution is using bluetooth HID emulation, so I will take a look into that.
For now, the TCP/IP solution shouldn't be a problem: you can setup a bluetooth PAN for TCP/IP connectivity.
For reference, one software that is closest to what you have in mind is Synergy, a similar host/client pass-through program that allows you to use one keyboard/mouse on multiple networked computers (without using hardware KVM switch, etc). It's only Windows/Mac/Unix, no PPC client, but maybe it will help point you in the right direction.
I found the following article which gives a nice overview of remote control solutions:
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/cms/blogs/3/remote_media_controllers_for_windows_mob
The software from Jerom does a nice job (http://www.jaylee.org/RemoteControl/) and I used it on my Prophet for some time. It requires for a small program to be installed on the host and it is easy to set up. But I had it hang a few times (typically in the middle of a management presentation) and therefore I abandoned it. The SE solution I had before was absolutely reliable and that's why I look for something similar for WM.
In principle, the solution is simple: Implement a HID device driver and pass key/touches to it. I did some programming for WM devices but I never tackled the bluetooth stack... there is a significant hurdle - otherwise someone else would have done this app already. ;-)
that would be cool
using the phone to open an app that is named "operate as bluetooth keyboard" and clicking start to take control of a home theater PC using teh TV as your monitor and the desktop media PC as the CPU and just using your phone as nothing more than a keyboard would be pretty slick.
golympio said:
Wow great idea, that would be nifty on my CarPC! I'm always looking for a smaller keyboard to fit there...
Can't be that hard, I'm sure someone can do that, with all the specialists we have here in this wonderful community
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are so much interested in a small portable keyboard, why dont you try diNovo Mini from logitech http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboards/&cl=roeu,en
Quite cool. I use it for my Media Center!
Cyber-mate said:
If you are so much interested in a small portable keyboard, why dont you try diNovo Mini from logitech http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboards/&cl=roeu,en
Quite cool. I use it for my Media Center!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is cool, but also pricey
UP!!!!!
Is there a possibility (or currently an app) for my fuze to serve as a remote control. I have a great TV, but no remote for it :-(
Thanks!
You really are a junior. But you know what, that IS an excuse.
1) Fuze doesn't have a IR hardware
2) If it had one, the hardware wouldn't probably work as a controller anyway
that's what I was afraid of
Thanks for the reply
Take a look at this http://macdevcenter.com/pub/a/oreilly/digitalmedia/2004/10/28/ipoditunes_hcks.html Its kinda hard to find one and I'm not 100% that you can get it to work with the Fuze, but back when I was using a casio BE-300 that was hacked to hell a bunch of us were trying to track one down and get it working. Only reason we couldnt was because the BE-300 ran strait up windows CE 3, nothing like what is on any ppc now.
Take a look at this http://macdevcenter.com/pub/a/oreilly/digitalmedia/2004/10/28/ipoditunes_hcks.html Its kinda hard to find one and I'm not 100% that you can get it to work with the Fuze, but back when I was using a Casio BE-300 that was hacked to hell a bunch of us were trying to track one down and get it working. Only reason we couldn't was because the BE-300 ran strait up windows CE 3, nothing like what is on any ppc now.
my old himalay had IR and did work as a remote
but only with a range of 2m and one really had to point
as the IR in the devices that have it don't spread it out like remotes does
a great remote is logitechs harmony's
that site was interesting,b ut it takes a great deal of work to have it function.
I used to have a Sony Clie which rocked with a built in universal remote application. As long as you have a IR port with enough power it should work.
I did wish they kept the IR technology.. just for convenience sake.
Most newer (well, not that new! new ones have ditched IR) phones / pda's have very low power IR ports, so while you can make them into a remote, you need to be so close the the TV you might as well push the button!
The Raph doesnt have an IR port so you cant do it directly.... However, there is nothing stopping you from using your Fuze to control something with an IR port (either by cable [boo] or via a data connection [very long winded & complex way of acheiving TV control!], which can control the TV. But in all honesty - while it might be a fun project just to see if you can - you would probably be much better off going and buying a universal remote for a few ££ and using that instead!
I searched this now for a few days on the web. I found plenty of programs doing lots of things coming close to what I am looking for but nothing exactly what I am looking for that would work.
I am looking for a program that turns my HD2 into a native bluetooth mouse. I don't need any remote control or remote desktop stuff, I want my HD2 to look like a regular mouse connected by bluetooth.
I found plenty of remote control apps, that would require a server installed to the computer I want to control with my HD2, however this is exactly NOT what I am looking for. I want to control any computer that supports generic bluetooth input devices, no matter if Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever without installing any additional software to the computer.
I found two programs, that claim to do that (mobileSRC RemoteMobile and MobileMouse) but neither will function on the HD2. RemoteMobile does not seem to support the Widcomm Bluetooth Stack and MobileMouse is not usable, because it's not designed for WVGA (at minimum, I cannot get past the Licence Disclaimer after starting the app, because I do not reach any controls to do so).
Is there anything out there that would do what I am looking for on a HD2?
+1 Looking for the same
http://gbmsoftware.com/
gdayhtc said:
http://gbmsoftware.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh yeah, this is what I was looking for, thank you very much!
Which irony: I am still looking for what I described in my first post - and while I was searching for a program capable of doing this once again, I stumbled across my own old thread here
Sadly gdayhtc's solution wich seems to make 2 die 4 happy is exaclty what I am *not* looking for. I was aware of GRemote when I wrote this posting in january already. The point is, you need to install a server application on the host you want to use your phone with. The "talking" is done between the application on the phone and the server on the host as regular network traffic. This is not what I am looking for. What I am looking for is an application that basicly says "Hi [whatever operating system you are], I am a regular bluetooth mouse! Go ahead and load your appropriate drivers, so I can talk to you (just as any other bluetooth mouse would do)!" - and if there are Bluetooth touch pads, that the phone could emulate, that would be even better Basicly the phone will promote another bluetooth service to other devices that do a bluetooth service lookup stating that it can be a bluetooth input device. I can't believe nobody did something like that! Besides having to poke around in some bluetooth input device standards it seems like the much cleaner and more appropriate approach to use your phone as an input device over bluetooth compared to what GRemote and the others are doing.
I don't think there is such thing as a 'generic' blue tooth mouse (please correct me if I am wrong).
If you get a logitech one, it still loads its appropriate driver for the operating system you are using. Same for DELL (both use setpoint) and I'm sure Microsoft (and for the different models, there may be different drivers).
What I think you can best hope for is somebody to emulate one of these 'drivers', but at the end of the day, I would assume that some driver will have to be loaded on your pc/server.
I'm really hoping to get a physical keyboard to work with my Eris. I'm even open to a USB hard-wired solution, it doesn't have to be bluetooth.
I own an I.Tech Virtual Keyboard, which the Eris can see and identify properly but not pair with (so far), and I was thinking of buying a Freedom Pro keyboard, simply because they have posted an Android driver on their web site.
I downloaded an Android bluetooth app called KeyPro, which lists the I.Tech VK as a supported device, but it doesn't seem to get the job done.
Anybody out there working on the same capability who can share what they've learned?
Thanks!
Hi all,
I have been testing android for the last couple of months and I wanted to share with those of you who did not dare or bother to try android or did so but some time ago. I do not pretend to discover anything, simply give some info to those curious as I was a few months ago...The post has not much to do with wm6.5 development so maybe should be moved elsewhere, I post here because it is where in the past I read questiosn and answers about this question.
Android Pros:
Wonderful interface and navigation concept: graphics, scrolling, effects, overall resolution and touch experience I think it is much much better, Multitasking but the UI acts more as an iPhone or Treo, when you leave an application you are exiting it, from a navigation point of view. Another thing I like is the fresh concept of the phone: the notification bar and slide-down courtain, the lock screen, the keyboard are much better. On the side of the sotware is a cloud2.0 phone, since lots of applications tend to connect to the itnernet to fetch contents, context or whatever. this means you do not need to configure or copy so many things each time you flash. It has changed a lot since the first time I tried it: wifi works perfectly, GPS and car kit works perfecly, music, etc. It is very thumb friendly, You can install it as the only OS of the phone ("nand" install) or to run it from wm ("haret") install. They work pretty well both. You can even find dual bootloaders so you can choose which OS to load each time
Android Cons:
Our beloved Polaris are old for this trip !! Android seems to have a high consumption of RAM compared to wm6.5. Regarding storage it has been solved using the sdcard as internal storage but it is not perfect since the sd card can become corrupt much more easily than in Windows. The kernels are ported from Vogue (dzo) and this means no front camera, as Vogue does not have it. BT files transfer to PC & music transfers to headsets have limitations also. Another limitation is for people like me, wanting to have installed dozens and dozens of programs, ready to use: in my experience it seems this takes a lot more of RAM and transit to the cache or sd than in Windows so this means with a 100 programs the device is almost ununsable (on the other hand, with 15 apps is 1.000 times more fluid than windows). Another con (or pro) is the learning curve of the lynux/android new environment. Seems quite easy to modify a rom, simply adding apks (cabs) to the tar file and signing it but scripting, customization, registry, programming seems to me much more complex (to make an analogy, wm6.5 is visual basic and android is java). Another big con is the shorter battery (it is shorter and the phone is more oriented to wireless connections) and the need to have a data plan. With the radio I have used for the last years, the signal is worst.
Not pros or cons but differences:
Android is great for you if you use google (I do): gmail and contact integration is great. Of course, the same goes for WM6.5 with Outlook. Android is great if you have a data plan. If you don't (I don't) you can still use it but you better be sure you now how to cut traffic to the internet. Android stock of apps are oriented to localitzation services (Gps, camera recognition of whatever is focusing, social networks, etc) while wm seems to have still a larger stock of apps, more oriented to productivity, PIM, etc. For example, wm has much better off-line navigation programs since android are all connected to gmaps or whatver.
From the point of view of people enjoying cooking roms, customizing, etc. Android+Polaris seems a step hill to climb but Polaris+wm6.5 has not a long horizon ahead. Well, I hope this helps some of you to decide it it is worth to test android or not and stik or not to the Polaris.
enjoy your devices !
Good but not a replacement POLA200
Hey cruzza i tried out near on all of the android NBHs and yes they are a joy to use on the polaris.. But and heres a big BUT it is not very stable to use as a day to day op system for phone. The cameras weird to use. After working nice for one day it started to force close with everything - there was always a surprise waiting for me when i woke my phone up. You are right bro very very nice to look at and use i cried when i had to go back to windows.. I am curious to know how does your android perform - day in day out..
I've been using Android for six month first on haret then on nand and what i can say is that a lot of concession has to be made, and some are very important regarding stability, battery life and phone functionality
You have a great ease of use and a better feeling on android but general performance and memory management are not as good as on windows mobile
I was a flashing addict and i missed a lot of phone call, gps data due to bugs, flashing time, bad battery life so i decided to turn back to windows mobile (3LIT3 VIII) and i'm very pleased with it
Well, I do agree with most of what you replied. The current release and setup I am using is quite stable for a "light" use: no front camera, no videocall (never used in wm6.5 btw), no native T9 dialer, no native birthdays notifications, limited bt file transfer are a pain but you can live with it. The rest works pretty well: bt car kit, wifi, GPS, UI navigation, phone...In terms of apps I miss lots of things: an app to filter contacts to be sync'd with bt car kit, not so good nav programs (igo, compemaps have no equivalent...). However, you can live without it and the UI is so nice to handle, that it is difficult to go back to the blurry 6.5 or 6.1 screen and I love sync with google calendar and mail. I also love the navigation and buttons concept, the courtain with the notifications and many other things. I also love the open concept behind linux and android. Remember Da_G being warned by lawyers for posting the 6.5 releases? that can not happen in Android. Some brands even support officially roms made by users !!!
The problem is that we certainly have a device old to cope with it all since Android seems to eat more RAM: this means the RAM is eaten only by having installed let's say 100 programs (in wm6.5 It performs better in my experience with so many programs). The performance of the device drops exponentially as you eat resources. Then you may want to try some more advanced setup like installing the NAND to the SD card either to a separate partition or to an enlarged data file, but then my experience so far is that the SD Card becomes unreliable (you may loose all) so yo need to transfer the backup to the pc...and that is difficult to live with for me. Another thing that wm6.5 beats android is about scripting: with mortscript it is so easy in wm6.5 !! but with Android you need a heavy pc platform and you need to learn new languages and tools, far more complex and advanced than windows equivalents.
How do I look at it? I have stopped working on my wm6.5 roms since I do not think I will last much more time on wm6.5; I will probably gift me a data plan (I never had one) and a super android terminal with a good battery, screen, accelerometer and ROM (+ all I have in the Polaris). Until then I have decided to be again a (almost) end user.
The other reason, probably the most important, to change device is that the Polaris forums (both android and polaris) have little posts, new ideas, knowledge sharing... since most people already upgraded the device, and xda developers was in my case the driver to get curious about how these devices work.
So I think wm6.5 works better in our Polaris for a heavy use thanks (thanks to all who made it posible) but Android works pretty well in our Polaris for a basic use and for evaluating wich one you like more. The easiest thing to do is test a haret installation (this means you load wm6.5 as OS, and then run haret = linux as a program that executes android) and if you like it, test nand installation with a different sd card.
pinkstuff said:
Hey cruzza i tried out near on all of the android NBHs and yes they are a joy to use on the polaris.. But and heres a big BUT it is not very stable to use as a day to day op system for phone. The cameras weird to use. After working nice for one day it started to force close with everything - there was always a surprise waiting for me when i woke my phone up. You are right bro very very nice to look at and use i cried when i had to go back to windows.. I am curious to know how does your android perform - day in day out..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the difficult part with Android is to now what to flash: if the camera or wifi do not work well these means your android kernel does not like your "rom" release. In wm6.5 we only had two kernels the old kernel and recently a "native" wm6.5 kernel.
In Android you have more kernels basically programmed by a few expert cookers and developers, mostly DZO. You have a good post by l1q1d listing setups that should work on all devices. Try and ask for help. the newest kernel is 2.6.32 I think but has no good camera drivers. The previous kernel 2.6.25 supports camera but it is quite useless in my opinion (yes, the "horrible" camera we have can perform even worse than in wm!!). These are the kernels I have been testing but probably there are others. These kernels can not be combined with any release, the cooker must adapt the rom release to the kernel. So you need to locate a working combination so you must use the combinations tested by others (or experiment yourself). You also need to become familiar with modding the NBH to suit your device screen (the way to is atools again by l1q1d) Android has several major releases (eclair, froyo, ...) froyo 2.1 is like wm6.5 more experimental so many peopple stick to android 1.5, not so nice, but they say it works in a more stable way in the Polaris. Hope this helps.
Hi there,
I'm using a different device but I thought I'd comment anyways I cannot agree more to the statement of our devices being old. I think Android is a truly magnificent OS chained to our limited resources, however it is an amazing performer.
I am still on Donut (1.6) exactly because of the same reasons, battery life, reliability and speed. I have tried and messed with a lot of Android builds ported to our devices and I couldn't get the feeling off me that with Eclair and Froyo my poor Kaiser was struggling to operate.
I chose Android because no matter what I did to Winmo I was never completely satisfied. The closest I got to it was when I got PointUI and made myself a few custom things for it. In the end the performance with video and games was not so good due to the graphics driver issue from long ago. Once I got Android I had all that I needed, a good graphics performer, didn't need to find too many extra apps to satisfy my needs, and a GUI that I truly enjoy. I am also a very heavy gmail user and I do not even have outlook installed in my computer.
I love linux and terminal, another point for Android at least in my case.
On the development side of things my heart is with C++ and C# so I still prefer the .NET side of things. Java which thankfully is similar enough to C# as to grab it and start working on it for the first time is a very interesting experience, still getting used to a new environment though.
I use this as my everyday phone and after months of continued use I can't complain. I messed with Winmo so much that it was sluggish and needed to do a hard reset every now and then anyways.
Thanks for your info. I am sure it will help other users decide to give this a try. This is the only way to know for sure what your next device will be. As for me, I don't think I can live without Android anymore.