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I've put off getting a smartphone as long as possible, but did enough research that I think the Triumph on Virgin's $35 plan with Google voice is a smart way to go. I still have some questions about this new OS, programs, and environment, and really like the smart people on this forum, and hope you won't mind a few questions.
-What’s the best VOIP app for working with Google Voice? I've come across GrooVe IP, but would like reassurance whether it's the best option. I'd like to make calls over wifi, but I'd also like to know whether Virgin Mobile's 3g coverage is fast enough for voip (generally...). I wouldn't want to do this routinely as I'd be afraid they'd throttle me. But I would like someone who knows to share their opinion.
-How do I find out my wifi signal strength? 3G strength? GPS strength? Or even just where I can learn what the icons on the top bar stand for, and what their range is? There must be a good app for this, and I'd love a recommendation.
-If I wanted the option, how (specifically) would I switch from making a voip/data plan outgoing call to the regular phone cell plan? Would Android be smart enough to do this automatically without a wifi signal? Or would I need to change a setting in Google Voice? Any thoughts most appreciated.
-How do I find what apps are running (in background?)? Percentage of system resources, and how to kill them? I’m guessing there are apps for that. Does Android kill a process when you return to home screen? What are some of the general rules?
-I have a mac. I’m guessing most of the programs that let you manage files, root the phone, install Cyanogen mods, etc, are PC based. I found Android File Transfer, but am not clear on it's limits. Are there better options? What will the AFT program be good for? [Emulating PC’s is a pain I would rather avoid, but I have been thinking of running virtual box to donate some processing time to the Large Hadron Collider, so I might be able to run some of these PC programs]. Any advice most welcome.
-Any skins or options to turn the google apps into light text on dark background? (I'm aware of and have used the option in Gmail). I hate black text on white background. I'm kooky that way.
This Android phone is good looking, the plan costs much less than a thousand a year (which I refuse to pay), and I LOVE the Google voice options to turn your text and calls into computer files which you can archive as you wish. The Google voice activation / text / search is far superior to iAnything, voip/wifi is the balls, and I think a lot people who've been holding off from getting a smartphone will jump on this combo, and this thread may help them. Many thanks...
dcnblues said:
-How do I find out my wifi signal strength? 3G strength? GPS strength? Or even just where I can learn what the icons on the top bar stand for, and what their range is? There must be a good app for this, and I'd love a recommendation.
-How do I find what apps are running (in background?)? Percentage of system resources, and how to kill them? I’m guessing there are apps for that. Does Android kill a process when you return to home screen? What are some of the general rules?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With respect to these questions, I'm not an expert, but I'll provide a list of programs I use.
For WiFi signal strength, I'd recommend Wifi Analyzer from the Market. For 3G strength, I'd recommend Cellumap. For GPS Strength, GPS Status + Toolbox or GPS Test.
The manual for the phone can be found on either the VMUSA or Motorola web site. It will explain some of the icons. Although when using the phone, I often see stuff not explained in the manual.
For examining the phone's processes, I recommend SystemPanel from the Market (paid for version has history), and/or Android Status.
There are people that tell you NOT to kill anything on the Android OS manually. I use 1Tap Cleaner and Advanced Task Killer from the market if I see the phone behaving a bit sluggish. Android OS loads stuff in memory readying it for future use. How it does so (intelligently) I don't know. I see stuff being partially loaded I never use. I have never had a problem using either program.
YMMV
GrooveIP works great over 3g...I dunno how much we will be able to use it once they start capping data..bastards
dcnblues said:
-What’s the best VOIP app for working with Google Voice? I've come across GrooVe IP, but would like reassurance whether it's the best option. I'd like to make calls over wifi, but I'd also like to know whether Virgin Mobile's 3g coverage is fast enough for voip (generally...). I wouldn't want to do this routinely as I'd be afraid they'd throttle me. But I would like someone who knows to share their opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GrooVe IP is actually the only thing i've bothered to use because it worked well enough, I havn't put it to test over 3g... In the future, you can root the phone and update it to sprint PRL (Their towers instead of VMU) - People have reported up to like 6-900kbps doing this... I would suggest to not factor this last suggestion in yet as you won't be extremely comfortable with your first smart phone being messed with (But a possibility nonetheless)
dcnblues said:
-How do I find out my wifi signal strength? 3G strength? GPS strength? Or even just where I can learn what the icons on the top bar stand for, and what their range is? There must be a good app for this, and I'd love a recommendation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i will back the suggestion of wifi analyzer, it will map out locations of wifi/cellular tower, it gave me beef on another phone that ran @ 600mhz but this one is 1000mhz.
dcnblues said:
-If I wanted the option, how (specifically) would I switch from making a voip/data plan outgoing call to the regular phone cell plan? Would Android be smart enough to do this automatically without a wifi signal? Or would I need to change a setting in Google Voice? Any thoughts most appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With grooveip and google voice it will ask you on all outbound calls after you press dial: Would you like to make this call with.... A) non-Google Voice B) Google Voice (same story w/ sending an sms except it will ask when you create the sms because google voice has it's own sms application, keep in mind w/ gvoice you can forward calls to your google chat account (and that's what makes grooveip ring instead of forwarding the call to your cellular number[i think])
dcnblues said:
-How do I find what apps are running (in background?)? Percentage of system resources, and how to kill them? I’m guessing there are apps for that. Does Android kill a process when you return to home screen? What are some of the general rules?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are tons of application managers and task killers, I recommend to ignore all of them.... Someone brought a Samsung Prevail(Boost mobile Galaxy) into work the other day(Radioshack) - Anytime they killed tasks their touchscreen went out till reboot.... Android is supposed to self manage tasks and processes... realistically you just have to make sure not to leave your bluetooth wifi and gps on all the time... Also taking the screen brightness down a fuzz from max will help batt life tremendously... Android will suspend a process and kill an activity when you return to homescreen.... What I mean by that is that if you're in the browser and you hit home then you go back to the browser, you're on the same page still... but likely not to have any of your text still there if you were in an input field.... (This is probably an inaccurate example due to programmers being able to add a save activity state [this is something that when you for example hit back or hold the home button down to switch applications will store your current information, so when you're editing the text field it will save that data, THEN kill the activity/suspend it so that when you return it is still there, but the process is not draining the battery down at the moment.])
One of androids key attributes is the quick application switching via holding down the home button but some applications like pandora will run 'ongoing' so that you can multitask, while others will suspend so that you can save battery.... Kind of as a rule of thumb, unless it is monitoring or actively outputting it will be suspended.... so apps like pandora and wifi tethering continue to function when you switch applications because tehy'er ongoing whereas a note editor application would suspend itself untill it's brought back to focus because how are you going to type without it forefront?
dcnblues said:
-I have a mac. I’m guessing most of the programs that let you manage files, root the phone, install Cyanogen mods, etc, are PC based. I found Android File Transfer, but am not clear on it's limits. Are there better options? What will the AFT program be good for? [Emulating PC’s is a pain I would rather avoid, but I have been thinking of running virtual box to donate some processing time to the Large Hadron Collider, so I might be able to run some of these PC programs].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off nice LHC Mac joke I take it we're running the server edition cause hey, more is never enough.
I honestly can't tell you much from the mac POV other than that it would hopefully work the same as the linux instructions but i kind of expect version/dependency differences... to be fair this triumph is rootable by application ran on the phone (Which you can GMail to yourself and download as attatchment, bluetooth, wifi shared folder, usb mounting, or download directly to the phone..) The custom recovery is installed via drag and drop on USB Removable Disc so it's not nearly as bad as some of the other phones would be,
dcnblues said:
-Any skins or options to turn the google apps into light text on dark background? (I'm aware of and have used the option in Gmail). I hate black text on white background. I'm kooky that way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel free to, they exist, I would however suggest against them... I walk to work a lot and it's a pain in the ass to read those emails when you have the sun on the screen; granted everything is harder this was damn near impossible... Nonetheless check for the black apps listed in xda/android/themes and apps... I'll link soon. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1206774
dcnblues said:
This Android phone is good looking, the plan costs much less than a thousand a year (which I refuse to pay), and I LOVE the Google voice options to turn your text and calls into computer files which you can archive as you wish. The Google voice activation / text / search is far superior to iAnything, voip/wifi is the balls, and I think a lot people who've been holding off from getting a smartphone will jump on this combo, and this thread may help them. Many thanks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to point out that with the GVoice extension/app for google chrome
you can continue your SMS conversations that way... I recieved one of the CR48s and this has been AWESOME for me.
As far as voip services, I have found using 3g too slow. That said I do recommend sipdroid. It will setup a pbx account for you using your google voice number. Upon connecting to wifi, sipdroid will start running allowing you to make and receive calls.
Sent from my MOTWX435KT using XDA App
Thanks guys for the very useful help. I'm kind of burned out on all the research, and kind of bummed that this red-hot, billion dollar business seems to be run by such morons. SO many unnecessary complications to offering consumers simple, workable products and services.
This has been a great help.
bigvandal said:
GrooveIP works great over 3g...I dunno how much we will be able to use it once they start capping data..bastards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm actually kind of grateful to Virgin Mobile for the $35 dollar plan. I can communicate via voice to text, for a fair price, so until I have a real problem, I'm not going to call them bastards. Until I have a problem, of course...
I do hate the BS in advertising 'unlimited' plans, but having them smirking in their headquarters as they say to themselves 'but we didn't say at what rate...'
On the other hand, people downloading movies over cell frequencies aren't exactly providing solutions to the problem either...
rubbachicken said:
GrooVe IP is actually the only thing i've bothered to use because it worked well enough, I havn't put it to test over 3g... In the future, you can root the phone and update it to sprint PRL (Their towers instead of VMU) - People have reported up to like 6-900kbps doing this... I would suggest to not factor this last suggestion in yet as you won't be extremely comfortable with your first smart phone being messed with (But a possibility nonetheless)...Android is supposed to self manage tasks and processes... realistically you just have to make sure not to leave your bluetooth wifi and gps on all the time... Also taking the screen brightness down a fuzz from max will help batt life tremendously... Android will suspend a process and kill an activity when you return to homescreen....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, thanks very much. For this and all the information. Colossally useful.
Groove IP is actually having a problem today due to some change in the Google servers. Hope it's resolved soon as I'd like to get this running.
Quick confirm: Triumph is LCD and not AMOLED, Correct?
With mango...wp7 brings lot of new features and enhancements....
for exampel the people tile updates show lot of people photos from (facebook, live messenger, linkedin etc...)....fetching facebook/twitter/linkedin/messenger updates happens alot too..
there isn't any app or built in functionality to calculate the data usage (unless your carrier has an wp7 app)...
so i was wondering hows the data usage on mango?
Yes, i guess this is really one of the big things missing in Mango. It is especially annoying when i go outside the country, i have 150 mb for roaming every month and wp7 mango doesnt allow me to see how much im using, i hope that with the new SDK new apps with this functionality come out to the marketplace,.
I agree, a bandwidth monitoring application will be really useful.
Also the cellular data connection and WiFi bandwidth usage should be split.
What would be even more awesome is if we can get a breakdown of how much each application/service has used.
eg. IE has used 90MB on WiFI and 20MB on 3G, XDA Dev app has used 5MB on WiFi etc.
I think this is a must have app for smartphone users so please vote for this feature here
http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...285936-api-for-accessing-data-usage?ref=title
Koush, they guy behind Clockworkmod has come up with another little gem you might want to try. It is a tether app that bypasses most carrier restrictions and allows easy data tethering of your phone to your PC/Mac/Linux computer. Another little plus: It does NOT require root!
Below is his post on Google+ where you can download the relevant client, and it pushes the APK over to your phone. (Make sure USB debugging is enabled.) It is still in Alpha so may not work for everyone, but we know from his previous work that all kinks will eventually be ironed out.
https://plus.google.com/103583939320326217147/posts/1Yy1jb9z4TA
suggest spoofing your browser's user agent
Serious bump to this post. I've got eight days left on the free trial and intend to throw down the five bucks once it asks, no question. Thanks Koushik and anyone else involved, and thanks wnp_79 for calling some XDA attention to this. I'd be interested in knowing how it works it greater detail. Here's the google play link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.koushikdutta.tether
This is a godsend as I'm in a situation where I suddenly need to tether a lot and my T-Mobile USA plan is, or at least the lady claimed, super unlimited, no cap whatsoever and no throttling. Hard to believe, and I'm in LTE areas. The only asterisk is that I pay extra if I want to tether, and there is a limit on tethering, no unlimited, and I don't know if they're looking for tethering or if they're focusing on their bigger problems. Even works on Linux, even lets me do other things like ssh. But one thing this app and its proxy magic do not do is change your browser's user agent string. That leaves you vulnerable to carrier detection based on what browser you're using.
So, to be a little extra safe in case your carrier is sniffing for that, if you're going to be doing this a lot and going heavy on the data, perhaps change (spoof) your computer's browser's user agent (how it identifies itself to servers) from its default to a mobile device, ideally identical to what you use on your phone. To do this without installing anything onto your browser, check this guide, http://www.howtogeek.com/113439/how...user-agent-without-installing-any-extensions/. For example this can be done easily in Firefox's about:config.
Or, use extensions/addons.. For Chrome, User-Agent Switcher for Chrome (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/user-agent-switcher-for-c/djflhoibgkdhkhhcedjiklpkjnoahfmg) works. For Firefox, User Agent Switcher (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/user-agent-switcher/). I've used both, they work (watched my own server logs to be sure) and seem legit. Downside is that you'll be seeing some mobile-formatted sites but hey, possibly-safer scofflaw tethering.
Well Folks,
So I've been using this OS now for 2 full months and by full I mean I have spent most of my free time learning about it and as much as I find this OS exciting and I believe this is where computing is really at now, I thought I'd share some thoughts on its irritants and get your feedback and opinions about it, so that it could be improved upon in future iterations.
I would like to mention that I have been using computers since the days of punched cards back in the 70s and that I'm no stranger to writing programs, although I am not a computing or IT professional and have only dabbled working on a few programs and scripts only to the extent of doing what was necessary for my work.
That being said, here's some of what I think of this OS, its strengths and weaknesses, its bugs (some, most probably from Google, would insist they are features - more on this later) and its successes. I hope that by posting this others will add their comments, rants and raves as well.
To moderators, if this has already been discussed or of this should be moved to another forum or in any way wish to criticize it, feel free to do so.
***
As much as I was a Microsoft fan during the 90s, this OS sold me as the only one where freedom to innovate and a large community of enthusiasts seem to thrive, whereas Microsoft has become sclerotic and is now under control of corporate culture and thinking, in other words, it's lost its soul and is just running on inertia. I'll stop here so as not to insult the grays who have taken control of it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
The open source / free software (lets not get into semantics, please!) sure has fostered a lot of friendly development and sharing and this is definitely the way of the future, notwithstanding what corporate America believes. History has proven that small entities have always been the most productive in society, and it shows in real life and especially here: Although Google, who is the de-facto giant in control of the platform, officially frowns on user control and participation into the OS, it actually benefits from it and doesn't interfere too much with its evolution and as far as I can see, has actually embraced quite a few innovations that we've seen coming to life here and on other forums.
In other words, they don't like it when developers modify it, but are happy to benefit from it in the end, except perhaps those innovations that give more control to users that they wish users should have, but at least and contrarily to Apple and Microsoft, they are not persecuting those who innovate. God knows we already have way too much of that military-style control in our society where major corporations and their lawyers dictate pretty much what citizens can and cannot do.
As much as this OS is promising with its fundamental openness (at least at its roots) and is the least oppressive of them all, there is still a lot to do, or should I say, a lot of restrictions to lift and doors to open to make it a truly open and free platform for software development, and this goes straight back to Google and its overbearing influence on the development of this OS. But I guess we have had to sacrifice some freedom in order to get some support from this corporate giant; so here are some things that, over the past two months experience with the platform, I find severely lacking and in dire need of rethinking:
- Google's overbearing attitude and control over users, especially personified in the Play Store, where one cannot comment freely anymore and the use of which has been aggravating to no end and THE cause of crashes and dysfunction of the device: It only works some times and is so ingrained in the OS that when it misbehaves, you often have to no choice but to reinitialize the OS (aka the 'cold boot'), which, of course, causes havoc with your data and personal settings, which brings me to my next issue:
- The File System: Where is my stuff stored and why is it so difficult to find it and save it? You'd think it's a crime to save your own data! What gives? Why is it so difficult for apps or user settings to be saved in a location chosen by the user? Just try this: of all you apps, how many of them can you access the data from outside of the application and keep safe for the next time when your phone needs to be reinitialized?
- Connection to external devices: We all agree that connection is king and the key to efficient use of portable devices. Can someone explain to me then why does Android make is so difficult to access and transfer files between LOCAL DEVICES such as USB drives and computers and why it must hide some parts of itself and makes every effort to hide user data and keep it out of reach from its owner?
- The Cloud Fad: why is it that Google insists so much on taking over my Data? Why is it not telling me where it is stored and why is it hiding it from me? Knowing how Google manipulates and basically snoops in on everything you do (it's been proven), why would anyone in their right mind trust to have their stuff stored out of their reach when external hard drive so cheap it's almost free? Can someone explain what the advantage is to me, especially when wireless connections are precarious at best and data transport costs more and more? You find that 'convenient'?
- Background Data: Can someone tell me why my device needs to transport SO MUCH stuff in the background and why it needs to do so when it can operate quite happily otherwise when it notices that there isn't a data connection available? Doesn't Google realize that Wireless Data is horrendously expensive? Why can I not, as a user, control what data is sent back in the background in a granular way instead of having to shut it down at system level? Is Google afraid what users might find out about what information is sent to their servers without their explicit knowledge? Which brings me finally to
- Permissions: Why is it so difficult for users to control application permissions? Just like licenses, we only have the choice to 'take it or leave it', without any true knowledge what we sold the devil. Permissions are pernicious and should be under total control of the user. Those developers who need those permissions should explain them all and make it possible for users to deactivate them all so that users could see if the reduced functionality is worth it or not. LET USERS DECIDES WHAT GOES ON THEIR DEVICE!
***
So that's it for my Saturday afternoon rant. Like I said, these things have irritated me for a long time. If you have objections, comments or accolades and additions, here's the place to do so, unless of course the moderators decide otherwise: if this has been discussed somewhere else and I've bothered you with this post, by all means let me know.
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is the beauty of Android
Mattix724 said:
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Mattix724 said:
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Mattix724 said:
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
***
In any case, I thank you for pointing out the practical solutions and workarounds and for getting the ball rolling, so to speak; but my point was more philosophical: WHY should we have to essentially "fight system" with these workarounds to do such straightforward things as as saving documents in a place of the user's choosing, being able to transfer files directly to his PC and being able to keep user privacy?
doesn't that bother anyone?
Shouldn't Android become more open and accessible as a platform that truly empowers its users and leave Apple and Microsoft to cater to those who couldn't be bothered?
Looking forward to your answers!
I sware people will complain nomatter what
Sent by Hellybelly 4.2.2
Disabling Background Data Completely?
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Old faithful said:
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
zelendel said:
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... I'm using Avast and its firewall doesn't have the option to turn off background data on Wi-Fi, it's either turn off Wi-Fi or not, no option to just turn off background data and leave access to foreground data. I've tried a few other apps that don't have this option either; it's all or nothing.
Do you know of any apps that have that granular choice? Could you suggest a few?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Old faithful said:
...
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
edscholl said:
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Count your blessings!
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access, but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Old faithful said:
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Background Data Implications
edscholl said:
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
To turn off background data go to settings, select Data Usage, press menu button and the check the restrict background data check box.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
You can go even further and customize each apps background data usage from the same screen.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sorry, just saw where you were talking about background data via WiFi....:banghead:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Old faithful said:
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Old faithful said:
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Konvey said:
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can direct me to an app that allows me to COMPLETELY shut off background data for all apps including the OS, for any type of connection, incuding WiFi, I wouldn't be so concerned, but I have looked for the past two months now and found nothing so far that does that, even the acclaimed Droidwall can't turn background data off, even when everything is turned off, meaning, NO data access whatsoever: the bloody "OS Services" still happily does its thing in the backrground, and there is no way to find out what it does (I tried tPacketCapture - I only get 24 byte long files that I can't read anything out of)
Since it would seem that the problem is deep within the operating system, it would seem that the only way to completely shut off background data would be to give a local host redirect for every BACKGROUND process, such as what is possible in Windows using a 127.0.0.1 riderect. Since I'm a newbie when it comes to Android I don't know how to do it, but surely there must be a way, or a way to connect to WiFi only on demand?
Konvey said:
but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I am still looking for a file explorer with the functionality of my old Norton File Manager (remember that one?). I can't understand why the so-called 'expert' ones such as Root Explorer don't have accessible sorting features (why hide it in settings? Isn't that a basic, essential feature of any file management system to be able to sort based on these common criteria?).
Furthermore, I'd love nothing more than being able to swipe left from the home screen directly into the file system for direct access to shortcuts, packages and data, and to be able to specify where the OS shoudl store MY data (instead of keeping it hidden as is most often the case).
Konvey said:
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I'll never have an Apple product in my house, no need to say more, we all know about Apple's control of its users and tyrannical ways. George Orwell had it mostly right, but where he failed is where Big Brother would come from: Not the government. Or perhaps we should say that Major Corporations, through the power of their lobbies, have indeed become the de-facto Government .
Thanks again for your answer, Ed.
edscholl said:
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shutting WiFi off after use is what I've been doing of late, but it's an uphill battle. The minute I turn WiFi back on, the OS, like a ravenous dog, immediately gets into background data mode, trumping the foreground querries by volume. But it's a start
edscholl said:
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
edscholl said:
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To each his own, Ed. When data costs $10 for 100MB and the most you can get is 1GB for $60 (or as low as $30 on promo), you quickly come to your senses. That's, of course, another issue altogether.
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
edscholl said:
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Old faithful said:
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and as I said, my weather widget uses (beautiful widgets) like 1mb a month. On my phone, the HTC sense widget uses like 5mb.
So if your weather app - again, what apps, specifically, are you having issues with? - is using hundreds of MBS, maybe it's doing a lot more (like live radar or videos), or maybe it's just crap and you should uninstall it.
Old faithful said:
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are tilting at windmills. The average page size is pushing 1.5mb, and was more than 1k back in the Netscape beta days (15k average ~1995).
It's not uncommon for a http HEADER to be bigger than 1k.
Old faithful said:
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your looking at the past through rose colored glasses if you remember more meaningful content being available in 1993. In mid 1993, there were 130 webpages, total. End of 1993, around 1000. End of 1994, around 10000. And a lot of them were useless crap that students were putting up (I know, I was one of them).
Old faithful said:
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not about accepting it without question. It's mainly you haven't given much specifics, so the only general answer is, well, it's for convenience, so turn off your data if you're worried. The details you did give - email and weather - it's very clear why they would use background data.
---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------
Regarding your other points:
Old faithful said:
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That you didn't know where it was doesn't mean it is hidden or a secret; guidelines are published and clear, and apps generally follow them. You're not given a choice in name and location for simplicity.
Old faithful said:
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Commonly claimed, but rooting does not void your warranty. Problems you cause by rooting will do not need to be honored by the warranty.
Old faithful said:
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No app imposes anything on you - apps require the permissions they do and they're spelled out before you install. Don't install apps that required permissions thou don't like.
Old faithful said:
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like your phone is broken. Get a replacement under warranty.
So, a Maps update was released to the play store with "better offline support". Now, i've tried it, and - correct me if i'm wrong - it seems to be the same **** as before. You can only select a tiny part of the map, and i don't know if this has changed now, but with older versions of google maps using navigation, it was still using a huge amount of data, even though i downloaded that part of the map first.
I would really like to use Google Maps as my car nav, for its usability and design, but is there STILL no way to actually DOWNLOAD the maps of a whole country, and then NOT have it use data when i'm driving?
jb91 said:
So, a Maps update was released to the play store with "better offline support". Now, i've tried it, and - correct me if i'm wrong - it seems to be the same **** as before. You can only select a tiny part of the map, and i don't know if this has changed now, but with older versions of google maps using navigation, it was still using a huge amount of data, even though i downloaded that part of the map first.
I would really like to use Google Maps as my car nav, for its usability and design, but is there STILL no way to actually DOWNLOAD the maps of a whole country, and then NOT have it use data when i'm driving?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, questions go in the Q&A Section.
Second, I believe the issue is that routes are not calculated on the device. It is my understanding that your position and your destination are sent to Google's servers where a route (or several route options) are calculated using several algorithms. Additionally, without using your connection to Google's servers, you'd never be aware of traffic incidents that would affect your choice of route. Total offline navigation may come in the future, but I don't believe it's really possible now.
jb91 said:
but is there STILL no way to actually DOWNLOAD the maps of a whole country, and then NOT have it use data when i'm driving?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On Google Maps? No.
Should it be possible to do that? Yes. Nokia does it. Does Nokia Maps (when offline) have the level of detail that Google Maps (online) has? No. Also, it takes somewhere between 2-3 GB of storage on Nokia maps.
mrfeuss said:
First, questions go in the Q&A Section.
Second, I believe the issue is that routes are not calculated on the device. It is my understanding that your position and your destination are sent to Google's servers where a route (or several route options) are calculated using several algorithms. Additionally, without using your connection to Google's servers, you'd never be aware of traffic incidents that would affect your choice of route. Total offline navigation may come in the future, but I don't believe it's really possible now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i am using an external app that is doing exactly that - navigation without ANY data usage and the possibility to download whole countries - obviously without any real-time traffic information then. I don't like the looks of it as much as Google Maps, but at least you can use it as a nav. Traffic information is something that would barely use any data anyway, and if the calculation of the routes actually goes through Google's servers (and you're unable to deactivate this), then this is simply bad design and it renders the whole Google Maps Navigation virtually useless. If you're crossing your country's border and don't want to activate Roaming, the navigation stops, simply because it needs a connection (for whatever). If you're on a low data plan, you can't use it either, because it's just burning through those MBs, even if you did use the cumbersome offline map selection to pre-download some small area.
I just don't get how this is meant to be used.
jb91 said:
Well i am using an external app that is doing exactly that - navigation without ANY data usage and the possibility to download whole countries - obviously without any real-time traffic information then. I don't like the looks of it as much as Google Maps, but at least you can use it as a nav. Traffic information is something that would barely use any data anyway, and if the calculation of the routes actually goes through Google's servers (and you're unable to deactivate this), then this is simply bad design and it renders the whole Google Maps Navigation virtually useless. If you're crossing your country's border and don't want to activate Roaming, the navigation stops, simply because it needs a connection (for whatever). If you're on a low data plan, you can't use it either, because it's just burning through those MBs, even if you did use the cumbersome offline map selection to pre-download some small area.
I just don't get how this is meant to be used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ever tried to give your phone voice commands without internet? Generally speaking, Google services require an internet connection. It's kind of what their whole business is built on. It's far from ideal but it's the nature of the beast.
If you require offline turn by turn navigation just use the 3rd party apps such as the one you're already using.
Are you sure it's using a lot of data? I have a N7 2013 Wifi version. I used tethering with my N5 to use google maps on the tablet and it uses 5 mbs during 20 min of driving. I also think most of that was used when I first turned it on to find location. Considering every time you refresh facebook it uses about 1 mb, I don't think that's a lot at all and low data plans should be able to handle it.
PsychDrummer said:
Are you sure it's using a lot of data? I have a N7 2013 Wifi version. I used tethering with my N5 to use google maps on the tablet and it uses 5 mbs during 20 min of driving. I also think most of that was used when I first turned it on to find location. Considering every time you refresh facebook it uses about 1 mb, I don't think that's a lot at all and low data plans should be able to handle it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i have 250 MB a month, so if it's using 5 MB for no apparent reason every time i try to use the navigation, then this is too much.
jb91 said:
Well i have 250 MB a month, so if it's using 5 MB for no apparent reason every time i try to use the navigation, then this is too much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, i use a minimum of 400mb data per day. in reality, 5mb data isnt very much, barely any actually. maybe its time to upgrade your plan? or maybe a smartphone isnt right for you?
simms22 said:
lol, i use a minimum of 400mb data per day. in reality, 5mb data isnt very much, barely any actually. maybe its time to upgrade your plan? or maybe a smartphone isnt right for you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who cares? And how is 5 mb data for no reason not much, when i'm on a 250 mb plan? Maybe thinking before typing isn't right for you?
jb91 said:
Who cares? And how is 5 mb data for no reason not much, when i'm on a 250 mb plan? Maybe thinking before typing isn't right for you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you have a 250mb data plan, your smartphone is useless most the time unless you are always around wifi. and still, 5mb data is not much, regardless of what your data plan allows. again, upgrade your data plan, or understand that your tiny allotment of data is tiny. it doesnt make the 5mb data used seem more than it is, 5mb is still 5mb, regardless of how much data you are allowed to use. 5mb is not much data.
simms22 said:
if you have a 250mb data plan, your smartphone is useless most the time unless you are always around wifi. and still, 5mb data is not much, regardless of what your data plan allows. again, upgrade your data plan, or understand that your tiny allotment of data is tiny. it doesnt make the 5mb data used seem more than it is, 5mb is still 5mb, regardless of how much data you are allowed to use. 5mb is not much data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you actually serious right now? If you're on a plan with 4 GB a month, 5 MB is not a lot of data. If you're on a plan with 250 MB a month, 5 MB is a lot of data.
If you are a billionaire, 10000$ is not a lot of money. If you work at McDonalds, 10000$ is a lot of money.
Also, my smartphone is "useless" most of the time because i'm not using a lot of data? It's useless because things like WhatsApp, mails, news, and so on don't use a lot of data? Could you please stop posting in my thread?
jb91 said:
Are you actually serious right now? If you're on a plan with 4 GB a month, 5 MB is not a lot of data. If you're on a plan with 250 MB a month, 5 MB is a lot of data.
If you are a billionaire, 10000$ is not a lot of money. If you work at McDonalds, 10000$ is a lot of money.
Also, my smartphone is "useless" most of the time because i'm not using a lot of data? It's useless because things like WhatsApp, mails, news, and so on don't use a lot of data? Could you please stop posting in my thread?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it doesnt matter how much data you are allowed, 5mb is not much. just because your data plan is tiny, it doesnt make 5mb seem any bigger than it is. yes, you can use a "dumbphone" for your apparent smartphone use. and the answer to your question is no, i post wherever i feel like it.
simms22 said:
it doesnt matter how much data you are allowed, 5mb is not much. just because your data plan is tiny, it doesnt make 5mb seem any bigger than it is. yes, you can use a "dumbphone" for your apparent smartphone use. and the answer to your question is no, i post wherever i feel like it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
k.
jb91 said:
So, a Maps update was released to the play store with "better offline support". Now, i've tried it, and - correct me if i'm wrong - it seems to be the same **** as before. You can only select a tiny part of the map, and i don't know if this has changed now, but with older versions of google maps using navigation, it was still using a huge amount of data, even though i downloaded that part of the map first.
I would really like to use Google Maps as my car nav, for its usability and design, but is there STILL no way to actually DOWNLOAD the maps of a whole country, and then NOT have it use data when i'm driving?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry Google doesn't cater to your specific want.
I love Maps and use it all the time and it works wonderful for me. You should probably use something else as it sounds like this app is not for you.
tgrgrd00 said:
I'm sorry Google doesn't cater to your specific want.
I love Maps and use it all the time and it works wonderful for me. You should probably use something else as it sounds like this app is not for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the app too. Since i don't use Facebook or anything data-heavy when i'm outside (aka away from wifi), my low data plan works fine, except for Google Maps navigation. That's why i am using another navigation app that's 100% usable offline, even though i would prefer Google Maps.
maps generally IS a huge data hog. with your data allotment for your plan, it sounds like maps isnt right for your use(even though you like to use it). unfortunately, it is what it is. maybe in the future itll use much less data, or will be made to be more useful when offline, but for now its a beast that demands to be fed by data.
jb91 said:
Well i have 250 MB a month, so if it's using 5 MB for no apparent reason every time i try to use the navigation, then this is too much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it's not for "no apparent reason". You're using 5 mb in order to use your navigation, just like you will use 5 mb to check your email a couple of times.
PsychDrummer said:
But it's not for "no apparent reason". You're using 5 mb in order to use your navigation, just like you will use 5 mb to check your email a couple of times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what exactly justifies 5 mb for a quick navigation through an area that i've pre-downloaded before?
jb91 said:
what exactly justifies 5 mb for a quick navigation through an area that i've pre-downloaded before?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you predownload a large area, it doesnt grab the detail. main roads/highways it would get, but the smaller roads and such remain for your data connection to grab when theres a need for them.