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Samsung SGH-i600 Android...???

Hello. I am new here. I saw you helped some guy running Android on his HTC touch dual. I have a SGH-i600 Windows Mobile 6 Smartphone(No touchscreen). It is the European version of the Blackjack 1. Since it is in the same category as the white "Gphone" prototype shown in An Android Demo Video...I thought I could try Android on my phone. For now, I would like to know if it is possible to run it from within windows. Later(when it will be more stable), I would like to remove WM and put Android on it as main OS. Or maybe Dual-Boot??? That would be very awesome!
Any help? Is it possible?

dude, android on any phone right now is almost impossible- i think only kaiser users are lucky enough to get some sort of unofficial OS of it working.
android is not actually out yet and when it does come out it will only be available for phones coming out then and the only hope youl have is if someone cooks a version for your blackjack or you get a phone which it supports.
hope this cleared things up

It did.
Yeah. Unfortunately, it did clear things up very well. I wish somebody could hack it to work with the SGH-i600. If not, I am getting a Kaiser or a touch-pro if the price will go down. I will not pay more than $600 on a phone.

Sorry for necro!
Sorry for necroposting, but now that Android has been released, is there anything I could do to port it to other phones. Especially my sgh-i600!

I don't much get excited by operating systems, but I'm intrigued here.
My suggestion to you would be to 1st get two sheets of paper, then write the benefits of WinMo on one and the benefits of Android on the other. And then do an HONEST comparison.
Now don't get me wrong: I have nothing against the Linux crowd, but I have a problem with tech-weenies that think it's cool to write M$ instead of MS and who believe Firefox is better simply because it isn't from Microsoft. Please don't think this statement is aimed at you - I DON'T think this of you, but instead see you as a member of the because-we-can brigade!
WinMo offers many benefits, least of which the maturity and stability, the number of devs coding for it and the number of apps available. In userland there are things like Exchange integration and more.
In my limited perspective I don't see Android matching WinMo, so aside from the because-we-can approach I see absolutely no point in migrating to it even if it was available to me right now. In fact, Android to me is of less consequence than Symbian. I see it as a Phone OS, while my device is a PDA that just happens to have phone capabilities, but is used for so much more. A bit like XP Home - pretty-ish, but outside of home usage it is mostly useless.
I will ask that you post your comparison of Android and WinMo here for all to see, but please don't get emotionally attached to either. Just stick to the facts.

let's see!
I also hate it when people bash something for no reason. I am not bashing Microsoft, nor Windows mobile. It's just that I prefer getting the most out of everything. WinMO smartphone edition freezes on me like a ***** every day, but that is not the main reason for which I would like to install Android. Android has a very easy to use SDK and I can easily port my Desktop apps to Android Platform. I am unable to understand the WinMO's sdk.Android just works for me, while WinMO doesn't. I have to say I love the phone. I could get a G1, but it doesn't suit my needs hardware wise. I just love the i600 and love the Android OS. S60 is still better than WinMO in my opinion. Easier to use(SDK) and faster(OS). I think there is a much higher chance of porting s60 as they have the e71 similar to i600.

Any luck for me? None?

A Thread to praise winmo (even though it has limitations)

after a long time being here ive noticed far too many threads moaning about the ugly interface and limitations of winows mobile
so i thought id start one that encourages new members to appreciate what we have
we have a mobile operating system that lets us do more than any other. emails on the go, internet sharing, fully customisable and the feature of being able to install unsigned software and work around compatability issues. and as far as looks go its noi uglier than a pc so we really cant complain. and i still hear about comparisons to the iphone now ill be the first to admit its a prett thing but after owning three winmo devices im never going to another, just because there are more possibilties than anything available
which brings me to this community and its part, my first device was a heavily branded spv m5000 (universal) and i really wasnt interested in flashing it or downloading because i didnt know about this community. then i got a kaiser and signed up for xda devs and have never seen so much appreciation for a mobile operating system and its features. in fact the only hangup i had was xda didnt cater for non htc devices, this was a bit of a niggle when i got the omnia. but ive still been welcomed and also decided to create a forum in the same manner as xda that caters for all winmo devices (see my sig)
so basically lets stop telling people what we think we should have and be greatful that we have the best mobile operating system available that seems to get better along the way with communities such as this one
cheers j
nb i know it seems a bit pointless posting a new topic about windows mobiles advantages but its better than another thread wishing it looked like an iphone

except windows mobile is dying and developement is drying up. Not only has the iphone outsold all wm devices worldwide but it actually has MORE apps now and more active development.
I too love WM and detest the limitations of the iphone, but sadly I must call a spade a spade

yeah it has just now. but development will pick up again. and i think the reason the iphone is doing so well is becauseits nice to look at. but they forget iphone has mass limitations

jayjay8585 said:
yeah it has just now. but development will pick up again. and i think the reason the iphone is doing so well is becauseits nice to look at. but they forget iphone has mass limitations
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but most of iPhone users are not hackers like peeps in xda or generally in windows mobile devices. they just like the fact that it is easy to use and doesn`t even realize it`s fails etc. I just wish that wm7 will bring those iphone users to us.

when peopolemfinally reaslise the iphones limtitations then they should come by them selves. if theyre r worried about interface. ifonz, but see we have the option of a pretty shortcut menu or pc looking interface ythey get the one and only that one

doubt very much iphone ipod touch got more apps then windows mobile
if people google <insert program name> pocketpc there are always hits
piles of freeware progs and games
but granted it's easier for people who pref not to use
google to find applications in app store

jayjay8585 said:
when peopolemfinally reaslise the iphones limtitations then they should come by them selves. if theyre r worried about interface. ifonz, but see we have the option of a pretty shortcut menu or pc looking interface ythey get the one and only that one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yah, but that is the problem. They have to install stuff to get it clean lookin etc.

yeah but the point is we have the choice we can install m2d and ifonz wad and throttle launcher they cant
the one word thatll piss every iphone user off
FULL CUSTOMISATION

jayjay8585 said:
yeah but the point is we have the choice we can install m2d and ifonz wad and throttle launcher they cant
the one word thatll piss every iphone user off
FULL CUSTOMISATION
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that is also so true, but it would be good if Windows Mobile would be as easy to use in the beginning like iPhone is. It took me time to get inside WinMo and now I love it, but iPhone is easy-to-use instantly or maybe this is just me
but the full customization is Windows Mobile`s greatest side and iPhone can`t compete on that side God I still wish that we had something like iTunes Store for Windows Mobile provided by xda

jayjay8585 said:
FULL CUSTOMISATION
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
care to explain how you can change the icons of the apps displayed when you Start > Programs or Start > Settings

i myself dont kno but after flashing hyperdragonsr rom onto my old kaiser theyre different so we know it possible
at the end of the day if winmo was so easy to set up and just use xda devs would be replaced with apps to be bought from microsoft for a fee then like apple sdks would have to be bought
although apps on appstore are free. well some of them developers still have to pay for the right to develop. winmno rules
and another note the whole taking time to set up winmo to be the you like it, thats what customisation is all about, and the fact that we delve so deep is the reason this haven exists

Yeah I agree about taking winmo to where I want is that loved customization side of it.
but for casual users it is like dancing on the graves and then they go and buy iPhone which a monkey can use -.-" but winmo still pwns it. no matter of what.

One other important aspect that is not being mentioned is that fact that the iphone had great advertising. The whooped and hollered it up and every one wanted one. I have friends who have the iphone and after a period of time they want more but due to no customization they can't. They are then jealous of my WM Device. Granted MS sucks a lot, because it appears they don't listen to what people want, but to me that is a great thing. Because of that we have XDA-Dev and all the wonderful programs. If it was up to me, keep is simple Microsoft and let the community build on it. The other fact is I hate (did I already say hate) itunes. AAC is a great format but the limitations of only being able to play on certain devices and having to sync with your computer and stuff. To much hassle and not enough freedom. My iphone friends agree, now that they see how quickly I can sync, move data and upload/download what I want as opposed to what I'm being told I can.
Just my two cents.
Let the flaming begin!!!

Just about right said:
One other important aspect that is not being mentioned is that fact that the iphone had great advertising. The whooped and hollered it up and every one wanted one. I have friends who have the iphone and after a period of time they want more but due to no customization they can't. They are then jealous of my WM Device. Granted MS sucks a lot, because it appears they don't listen to what people want, but to me that is a great thing. Because of that we have XDA-Dev and all the wonderful programs. If it was up to me, keep is simple Microsoft and let the community build on it. The other fact is I hate (did I already say hate) itunes. AAC is a great format but the limitations of only being able to play on certain devices and having to sync with your computer and stuff. To much hassle and not enough freedom. My iphone friends agree, now that they see how quickly I can sync, move data and upload/download what I want as opposed to what I'm being told I can.
Just my two cents.
Let the flaming begin!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope this wont turn on a flame war
yeah, Apple`s advertising sure beats wm devices ad`s. haven`t seen a single Diamond / Touch Pro ad and I see atleast three iPhone adverts in a day at tv.

guess thats because apple is iphone and virsa versa
where wm is a os that anybody can make phones using
so should htc make adds for a ms product or
should ms make adds for a htc product ?

HTC should advertise their devices I wonder what would be results if Diamond would be as advertised as iPhone :s

Thanks for starting this thread. There is so much talk about how terrible winmo is, but personally I think its great. Sure out of the box it isn't the most user friendly device, but you can customize your phone however you want with a large array of diffent programs that allow for 'prettier' graphics and a much more user friendly interface. Its too bad development is slowing down, but I understand why. I just hope that WM7 can step up the ms game and get people interested again.
One more thing. I have a friend with a 3G iPhone. He is so die hard about it and is convinced everything else is so far inferior. Well, the other day I showed him the customization of my phone, dual booting android, and smoked him in download and internet speeds and suddenly he didn't seem so sure about his iPhone. He thought active sync was the coolest thing, I had to remind him that this was present on winmo phones for many years and is not an iphone development. I think a big issue is advertising, smart phones and ppcs are NEVER advertised on television. You may see ads for an Instinct or a Razor, but never for a Vogue, Kaiser, Diamond etc.
Anyhow, great thread. Winmo rocks.

of course it does because as we kno its has limitations but because of forums like this thre not a lot. and less work than symbian

Again, How is WM More customizable than the other platforms??
Custom Roms (Treo's and iPhone)
3rd party apps (Symbian, Treo, iPhone)
Ability to run Unsigned Code (All three again)
MS is as evil as any other company.
Flashing custom Roms(CID unlock/Hard SPL) seems easy to you because of hard work of folks here.
And should i remind you that MS/HTC haave in the past tried to shut this site down???

I hate to break it to alot of you guys, but the sub culture of the jailbroken iPhone community is much more in depth and techy than many of you think.
Windows Mobile is still my preferred OS mainly because I've been using it for so long, but I do own an iPhone 3G. Just like I've been ripping apart my WM phones for awhile with the information received here, so do I with my iPhone and it's batch of web sites. You'd be amazed at some of the stuff they've got going. Full customization of every aspect of the phones graphics, a video recorder that shoots ultra clear video (this, after years of suffering with my HTC camera software), a wealth of Apple-unapproved third party apps, system tweaks (like Safari Mobile tweaks that allow us to download, copy and paste, etc.), and more.
I do and always will love Windows Mobile, but we HAVE to remember that most of us hated WM right out of the box, otherwise we wouldn't be here. Likewise, my iPhone failed to interest me much when I first got it, yet the current generation of Jailbreaking has really opened it up.
The grass is green on both sides of the fence. I used to bash the iPhone and it's users just like everybody else, but now that I speak from experience I have come to see that the two OS's are much more alike than we realize.
The way I see it, there is no reason for me to be blindly loyal to one OS. When I started buying WM devices, I didn't sign up for some strange Microsoft regime, and likewise for Apple. We can have both, and use them as the mood strikes us.
EDIT: Oh, and don't even get me started on the touch screens...we really need some capacitive love on WM touch screens...

The Microsoft Phone 7 Series ... What do we know from this vid?

http://www.gsmarena.com/microsoft_a...windows_phone_7_series_platform-news-1456.php

It is still slow to respond to commands. Looks nothing more than a facelift.

Microsoft killed itself with this ****....
I mean, who would ever want this? It's completely illogical, Applish, slow and stupid.I think, that me and most of the people will stick to 6.5 ...

Actually, it looks VERY GOOD for me
No, I won't be probably using it since day one, but I'll consider it when there will be serious phones with it (HW keyboard, huge display like 4") and many software for it (different keyboards, I'm using swype few days and it's awesome).
All MS should have done like year ago was remake memory management of CE OS 5.2 (f.ck those SLOTs and use desktop-Windows-like mm), some other improvements and compile it against armv6 and force Qualcomm to give HTC drivers for 3D and 2D and this all stuff for low cost. Everything would work just like now, with thousand of apps, but faster and faster and faster and BETTER.
And then integrate HTC Sense on system-level, also many apps and cooperate with HTC on those UI and apps, not like now that MS does core and speaks with HTC only about core and UI is just only in hands of HTC.

donniesd said:
It is still slow to respond to commands. Looks nothing more than a facelift.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's looks completely different, from the 6.5. It also behaves differently. It looks so responsive and quick. Don't know what to think about it's features. So far I like it, but I want to know more about Customization and Multitasking. I'll Wait until MIX10 to give my final judgment.

I am looking forward to it.
I think Microsoft should do this:
1) Make Windows Mobile 6.5 be the OS for geeks looking for complexity.
2) Make Windows Phone 7 Series be the OS for minimalists looking for simplicity.
3) Finally, they should release a mobile OS for geeks looking for complexity but just a revamped look (other than doing stuff like making buttons finger-friendly, there really is no way to make something simple complex, and something complex simple).

What do we know from this vid?
That it's something I will never buy ?

What do we know from this Vid ?
We know that it is a promotional video from M$. And that the finished product will more than likely be much different from this when it hits the street in 4Q.
And we know that looking at this video tells us nothing about how it will act on our phones or the phones we are about to buy.
Didn't we go through all this speculation when WM 6 was previewed ? And WM 6.1 and 6.5 and now we have to go through another 8 months of speculation over WP 7 ?
Why can't they just do an Apple ? Announce it 9:00 am Tues, and have the Upgrade online at 9:01

poetryrocksalot said:
The Microsoft Phone 7 Series ... What do we know from this vid?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, that's simple.
1. Taller phones - what a selling point! "Ours are narrower" -- "or Taller " -- either way, they're "what you want more of"
2. Nothing here that is not currently done on Android phones with their amazing array of widgets and real time integration of information.
3. Nothing that Motoblur doesn't already offer on its CLIQ Android phone.
Unless you mean by What do we know from this vid? that MS has hired some better ad-makers than before.
This must be what you're getting at, right... vs the revolutionary new operating system -- available at end of year -- by that time who knows what iPhone 4.0 series has, nor where Android is in those # of months.
Seems to me one of the last selling points for WM -- and a point I keep arguing against as being a conditioned mirage, and no longer a reality -- is its easy integration with business enterprise systems, thus making it a better choice for IT departments outfitting a sales force with mobile satellite offices.
Yet all I see is consumer coolness "I am off to the gym now" --- wow, even twitter users know that people use twitter for more relevant things now than the original "what are you doing right now".
They will not fall on their faces, they have too much desktop market share to do that, and there's a significant amount of brand loyalty that comes with that, as well as customer ignorance (as in "i don't understand about a lot of this new stuff, but at least if my desktop is Windows, and my phone is windows, i know everything will work") ... But is that a high enough measure of success to beat Android? --- "to not fall on their faces"?

quicksite said:
Oh, that's simple.
1. Taller phones - what a selling point! "Ours are narrower" -- "or Taller " -- either way, they're "what you want more of"
2. Nothing here that is not currently done on Android phones with their amazing array of widgets and real time integration of information.
3. Nothing that Motoblur doesn't already offer on its CLIQ Android phone.
Unless you mean by What do we know from this vid? that MS has hired some better ad-makers than before.
This must be what you're getting at, right... vs the revolutionary new operating system -- available at end of year -- by that time who knows what iPhone 4.0 series has, nor where Android is in those # of months.
Seems to me one of the last selling points for WM -- and a point I keep arguing against as being a conditioned mirage, and no longer a reality -- is its easy integration with business enterprise systems, thus making it a better choice for IT departments outfitting a sales force with mobile satellite offices.
Yet all I see is consumer coolness "I am off to the gym now" --- wow, even twitter users know that people use twitter for more relevant things now than the original "what are you doing right now".
They will not fall on their faces, they have too much desktop market share to do that, and there's a significant amount of brand loyalty that comes with that, as well as customer ignorance (as in "i don't understand about a lot of this new stuff, but at least if my desktop is Windows, and my phone is windows, i know everything will work") ... But is that a high enough measure of success to beat Android? --- "to not fall on their faces"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) You mean longer screens due to the wVGA minimum requirement?

love it. windows mobile 7

The End Of Windows Mobile?

Hi,
I have been increasingly concerned over future development (if any) of Windows Mobile. Having bought my TG01 only in February with the joy of believing that windows mobile would expand to windows mobile 7, I am now very disappointed to discover that this won't happen. Here are some article snippets I have seen in the news highlights:
"TG01 won't get windows mobile 7 upgrade"
Original Source: Can't seem to find it again on google, but have seen it on google within last few days.
and
"Adobe kills Flash Player 10.1 for Windows Mobile 6.5, smitten with Windows Phone 7 Series"
"If you’re not feeling a bit sorry for the aging Windows Mobile platform, you should be. With Windows Phone 7 completely overshadowing Windows Mobile 6.5 and Adobe confirming the death of Flash 10.1 for WinMo, the stylus-happy smartphone operating system of yester-year is being kicked to the curb left and right."
Original Source:
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/02/2...-6-5-smitten-with-windows-phone-7-series.html
Just wondered what other WM users think? Personally, I'm tempted to sell my TG01 fast before it's too late, but can't help but wonder if I'm making the right decision, and wouldn't know what to replace it with.
I keep reading negative headlines for windows mobile, and I think it won't be long before most phone manufacturers choose Android as their OS, therefore making windows mobile redundant. I suppose windows mobile has been around for some time now, so perhaps I shouldnt have bought a phone with a OS that is heading for 'death'.

Wrong section for this thread... But...
Many WinMo devices in the past never received official updates... My phone is from 2008 and didn't even receive a 6.5 update...
If you ask me Microsoft is going in the wrong direction. . They abandoning everything that made the platform great to focus on interface and dumb down the OS (I hate how they are iPhoning the system). In a nutshell it's the PocketPC deevolved from a tiny computer into a mere feature phone... They have already lost a great deal of 3rd party developer (professional and amateurs... most freeware devs and hackers got off the wagon)... The lack of quality freeware and OSS content is what will utterly drive me and many others to Android.
Samsung has released Bada... HTC doesn't seem pleased with the UI modifications constraints and has an ever increasing number of Android devices... Regardless of my opinion about them they are the current two biggest WinMo phones producers. If these two companies drop the platform it's as good as dead.
The signs of death are way older than this (just look at the state of many OSS projects and emulation... also the smaller number of commercial apps and quality games... even some bogus apps iPhone clones that users currently request here). Adobe is just throwing a tantrum (but considering Microsoft is pushing Sirlverlight, Apple is developing Gianduia and the eminence of HTML5... I don't know if they can afford the price) very much like Mozilla did when they cancelled Fennec for WinMo.

install mobile shell 3.5 much better then any microsoft update lol

We even lost support for Skype ! Whate a shame. Windows Mobile is really coming to its end :/
I recently bought a HTC HD2 and sold it because I realised there is no future in Windows Mobile..

It might be the end of Windows Mobile.
But if our great XDA hackers manage to compile a fully functional Linux kernel with required drivers over time, I assure you the use of your device won't be lost. It's still one of the best hardware devices out there at the moment if you ask me.
With that, Windows Mobile will still be what it was. I'd not even WANT Windows 7 if it is heading the way it's going now..

You people need to get the facts right.
Firmware updates DO NOT COME FROM MICROSOFT.
They are custom built by each manufacturer.
It is HTC, SE, etc... that do NOT update their phones. They make money by selling hardware, so "no new features" on old hardware is an industry standard.
It is TRUE that windows mobile 7 will include an update feature similar to that of android where you can get OS updates without having to resort to flashing the whole firmware.
What isn't true is that microsoft will give you windows mobile 8 for free and so on...
Google is giving you "free" updates because android is a platform for google to sell it's services... gmail, calendar... etc.
TRUE STORY:
1. Make something easy to use and people will come running, and give up their privacy and data on the way.
2. People don't actually USE windows mobile. They just push the buttons. Windows mobile is a platform too, a business platform. You need a business built around MS technologies to take advantage of it's true value.

They told us, WM 6.5 will be continued for professional users. But I think, if this really happens, new software will be rare: Skype is off the hook. Many other may/will follow: They want big business with many customers.
I plan my switch to Android. HTC Desire is at the top of the wish list !! I hope there will be as much quality software as there is for windows mobile here at XDA devs! I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .

I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
Very sorry to hear that Skype has been discontinued. Is someone able to confirm that this:
"Can I still use Skype for Windows phones if I already have it?
Yes. People who have already installed Skype for Windows phones can of course continue to use it."
means that as long as you have skype installed, you can still use it, meaning forever?
Well, I'll continue using my TG01 for another 6 weeks and then I'm putting it on ebay for around £150 Sim-free. Not sure if I'll be following the phone market anymore. I've seen a rapid flow of tablets being made recently and with the addition of 3G, I think that they could possibly overtake mobile phone market, but as they are still coming to the surface, they need a little more time so it's a waiting game for now.
At least windows mobile was easy and fast to navigate, but what's the point in following it if developers are leaving in droves and software is dying out.
Bring on Windows 7 (not the mobile version, but a more portable version of the desktop version ). RIP windows mobile Good (in a way) while it lasted.

Tozzy2 said:
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
Very sorry to hear that Skype has been discontinued. Is someone able to confirm that this:
"Can I still use Skype for Windows phones if I already have it?
Yes. People who have already installed Skype for Windows phones can of course continue to use it."
means that as long as you have skype installed, you can still use it, meaning forever?
Well, I'll continue using my TG01 for another 6 weeks and then I'm putting it on ebay for around £150 Sim-free. Not sure if I'll be following the phone market anymore. I've seen a rapid flow of tablets being made recently and with the addition of 3G, I think that they could possibly overtake mobile phone market, but as they are still coming to the surface, they need a little more time so it's a waiting game for now.
At least windows mobile was easy and fast to navigate, but what's the point in following it if developers are leaving in droves and software is dying out.
Bring on Windows 7 (not the mobile version, but a more portable version of the desktop version ). RIP windows mobile Good (in a way) while it lasted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion in the near future many WM-programmers will switch to Android-programming. As we can see here in this community this switch has already started! That's a nice developement. I tested the HTC Legend last week and it was nice! You can even use the phone with minimal dependence on Google (apart from Android updates of course)!
Certainly the old Skype will work. But if Skype changes some fundamental things, you have to switch to programs with skype support like Fring. When WM is really dead, even the support for those apps would die, too.

But surely, eventually, someone could hack the TG01 to make it compatible with windows mobile 7 unless TG01 isn't hardware equipped to be able to run it? Perhaps there could be a slim chance? After all, the problem doesn't lie in the phone, but in the inupgradeable OS.

Guys your right!
its just dawned on me: What is the future of ' Microsoft Windows Mobile'
As Windows Phone 7, sounds rubbish and Wm is losing support from:
Skype IM
Adobe Flash 10.1
I fear the days are numbered before Android takes it thrown

I'm disappointed as well.
I'm heavily relying on Outlook to sync up two pocket pc phones (TP2s), as well as SpbFinance.
I wonder what's going to happen to Outlook, once Windows doesn't cater to adults, but only social networking teens and tweens? I imagine that other OSes, that put in some effort to use Outlook & Exchange, will eventually drop that too.

I have a second PC at home with OpenSUSE 11 on it, more as a curiosity than anything else. Maybe it's time to install GCC, the Eclipse IDE, and the Android SDK on it and start all over again. I'll probably start hanging out in the Android Development Forum.
As an aside, all the above are available totally gratis. Download them, install and run them, all under the GNU licenses.
In the early days Microsoft gave away Embedded Tools 3 (C++ and VB) and the later improved Embedded C++ 4.0, with the sole purpose of getting the platform moving. That vision seems to have gone, but it's probably too late now anyway.

This forum was an excellent lesson for Microsoft to follow the Google/Android model instead of Apple/iPhone.
Unfortunately for us, MS decided to follow the Apple/iPhone model, at least for their phone line of business..
I do believe though that the driving force of XDA is such that it could force MS into creating a WM/PocketPC series of devices based on WM6.5.x following the Google/Android model.
MS fears that if they do that, they will cannibalize WP7 sales, as everybody would love it:
- OEMs would not have to dump their development investments
- DEVELOPERS would have the choice to continue to use their libraries or use Silverlight,
- END USERS would continue to use their purchased software,
- even MS itself would love strong demand for devices like HD2 which would in turn bring strong license revenues.
Boiling everything down into one question to MS:
- Since, all that most people need is a phone with a notification system and apps marketplace, why couldn't you put this into any WM phone? Cheap, effective, and guaranteed to increase OS sales.
Answer: Well we did this... (Marketplace, Office 2010 etc.)
- Too late, you first killed the product and now you are trying to save it!
IT IS THE ERA THAT HAVE CHANGED, NOT THE TECHNOLOGY. I believe that WP7 would simply be the Windows Vista... WP7.1 (with WM6.5 app legacy support and multitasking) will be the Windows 7 of MS mobile phones.
In any case, if I was MS, I would have never introduced WP7 in the first place until I had it ready as my market expects it to be... How could they fall into the Osborne Effect? Did they expect that this wouldn't happen with MS? Well it did...
Dimitris

I think Microsoft was on a good way with WM6.5.x. It got finger friendly, the user interface got more usable and consistent.
The only thing MS didn't understand for years is that one very elementary thing is missing for Windows Mobile.
A FREE development platform with a STYLEGUIDE and a nice set of STANDARD GUI Controls which look good, are finger friendly and easy to use. Go to the iPhone Development Homepage and you will see what I mean.
Even with WM6.5.x they didn't learn this. They made their GUI more consistent with nice looking skinnable buttons, new finger friendly controls, and a quite usable light weight today screen.
This is all good and was the right way. But why is there no documentation on how to implement titanium plugins? Why is there no documentation and API on how to use the new controls? Why don't old programs use the new skinnable look of the controls? Why is there no API for gestures in .NET CF? ...
The support for programmers is absolutely worse (you can say not existent) for WM6.5.x so nobody wants to develop for it anymore!
Best regards,
Markus

TeddY89h said:
I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tozzy2 said:
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure many applications are disappointing, but there are JUST SO MANY that you need not worry about the ones that are garbage.
Its the same with EVERY platform.
And being in the US #2 market share position while WM sits within the #4 "other" position, you can be assured that Android already has FAR FAR FAR more software developers than WM will *EVER* see again.

corwin42 said:
I think Microsoft was on a good way with WM6.5.x. It got finger friendly, the user interface got more usable and consistent.
They made their GUI more consistent with nice looking skinnable buttons, new finger friendly controls, and a quite usable light weight today screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's HTC's GUI covering the ugly, ugly, WM. M$ has no merit in this!
WP7 is going to be born dead. too little, too late!! what could WP7 bring new now? hubs? they took the wrong turn following\copying the iPhone model.
i am on my way to android!

I think he's refering to WM itself. Manilla is everything but lite! In all latest devices HTC has been draining phone resources left and right for the sake of their trademark GUI.
The notion most users have of Android is also basically the HTC GUI (the Android basic GUI is also not that great).
I also think WM is on the brink of death but the fact is Android is not the answer. AFAIK the apps developed don't have capped access to the machine resources so we can forget about apps that really require everything the machine can give (such a good universal media player).

I writing an app now for Windows Mobile and I'm writing it for Windows Mobile as its the only platform that it can be written on as it makes use of a number of technologies and features that the other phones lack (I will admit Android is closest and hence a prime interest of mine for future projects). Windows Phone is a step backward technologically for sure, but the success of the iPhone proves that technology has little to do with market success.
I don't think the problem is technology, I think the problem is managing people's expectations and battery life. For example everyone wants GPS, Wifi and cellular data etc with apps running in the background using them all, but that is a battery killer and hence a phone killer. Apple's solution was to limit via the OS what could be running at any one time and hence while Microsoft might claim it was crappy apps that were causing problems (and there is some truth to that, but crappy coders are pretty much a universal problem on any platform and again if I limit what an application platform can do I also limit the damage crappy coders can do), the real problem was battery life and I think the Android is going to find the same problem. So in reality limiting the OS is really about limiting users and helping to manage their expectations and if that can be done, then you can be successful like Apple and its iPhone who lowered user expectations technically and then achieved in filling those lowered expectations. They are continuing this success by raising technical expectations as technology allows them. For example video conferencing in their next iPhone as innovation, your kidding even my old HTC Universal had a forward facing camera for video conferencing years ago but network speeds tended to leave the user disappointed, but now cellular speeds might be up to snuff and Apple will be successful with this (battery life should be interesting of course).
So I don't think technology is the key in this market, I think its finding the balance between what is technically possible and user expectations, and so you might have to drop the technical level of the product down and then raise it as technology makes it possible which sounds exactly like what Microsoft is doing with the Windows Phone.

Marketing and design was the key to Apple's success.
For years Apple held their ground and finally had a beak with the iPod. It was small, had a huge memory and was good looking. All of a sudden Apple was cool again. Over the years (and hardware revisions) the iPod became a trend, an icon and the Apple brand was automatically associated with the concept of quality by the average Joe. At this point they barely needed to market their products or be innovative anymore they just release stuff that already exists in a prettier package but otherwise inferior (iPad anyone?)
Apple gained the smartphone marked based on the cool factor, it's icon status and good looks. The iPhone had a cool looking hardware and an appealing and easy to use OS. It's however an overpriced piece of hardware with an inferior OS but what can we do if people get stupid when they see shiny objects? The flock of users, hardware standardization and centralized online market attracted developers and now the iPhone has a huge amount of programs available (sure most suck but they also have some handy stuff and lots if games).
The Windows Mobile seems to have emerged originally as an OS for a tiny computer... Not a phone on steroids. Microsoft would always have a market just as long as they released a solid platform and offered what the others didn't... Microsoft hasn't been cool for a long time (it's not a crowd pleaser). It was easier to drown the opponent products when you could just through in pile of cash to regain terrain but this won't work anymore (Apple's rolling in it). If MS is going to release just another iPhone they their new OS is dead on the water.

[Q] For people who LIKE WP7 Only

I really like WP7, I recognise that it has some missing features but I am confident the se will be addressed with time. My concern is that anybody considering WP7 who reads this forum (or a plethora of other websites) could be easily put off by the negativity displayed by:-
1) Android/ IOS trolls
2) Disenchanted WM6.5 users who still want to spend their lives tweaking and cooking
Roms
3) People with an irrational fear of "the cloud".
4) Journalists who are desperate for MS to fail (because they are not Apple or Google
and thus not trendy!)
My question is, what can those of us who have faith in the platform do to balance the arguments a bit? I'm not talking about fanboism, I'm talking about expounding the positive features of WP7 like one note, like cloud sync, like the people hub, like the fast browser, like XBox integration for gamers (even though I do not use that much), like the easy access camera, like Zune and Zune Pass, like the fluid interface, like 25Gb of FREE Skydrive etc.
For example, I have a 16Gb HD7 with 25Gb skydrive means that to me I have a 41Gb device - more than my Ipad (see, I am platform agnostic).
If those of us who like WP7 do not actively support it, it will go the way of WebOS no matter how much Microsoft spend on their marketing budget.
WP7 is a revolution, let's get revolutionary about it!!!!

adesonic said:
I really like WP7, I recognise that it has some missing features but I am confident the se will be addressed with time. My concern is that anybody considering WP7 who reads this forum (or a plethora of other websites) could be easily put off by the negativity displayed by:-
1) Android/ IOS trolls
2) Disenchanted WM6.5 users who still want to spend their lives tweaking and cooking
Roms
3) People with an irrational fear of "the cloud".
4) Journalists who are desperate for MS to fail (because they are not Apple or Google
and thus not trendy!)
My question is, what can those of us who have faith in the platform do to balance the arguments a bit? I'm not talking about fanboism, I'm talking about expounding the positive features of WP7 like one note, like cloud sync, like the people hub, like the fast browser, like XBox integration for gamers (even though I do not use that much), like the easy access camera, like Zune and Zune Pass, like the fluid interface, like 25Gb of FREE Skydrive etc.
For example, I have a 16Gb HD7 with 25Gb skydrive means that to me I have a 41Gb device - more than my Ipad (see, I am platform agnostic).
If those of us who like WP7 do not actively support it, it will go the way of WebOS no matter how much Microsoft spend on their marketing budget.
WP7 is a revolution, let's get revolutionary about it!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with ya, WP7 brother. I try to do my part by telling it like it is, being the highest quality mobile OS yet released, but who knows if it is having fruitful effect.

I'm with you too
It may be missing some features but just by looking at it, you can see that once Microsoft does implement the missing features it will look a lot better than Android's.
It's the first OS that's actually impressed me ever since iPhone came out.
I liked Android but it felt unfinished and I felt that buying one was not a good investment, since by the next year they would stop handing out updates for it and they would release a device frequently.

Hell yeah! Let's do this thing!

you want to know the best way to promote windows phone? allow people to use it. i've shown my phone to virtually all my friends, and they all really like it. though they didn't use it for very long, they liked the capabilities of the OS in terms of smoothness, visual appearance, and functionality (well with what they played with).
i think we really just need to see MS continue to better the platform both on the phone side, but also on the developer side. they need to get the SDKs for all the hardware out asap, and then work on more SDKs that will bring features not yet on the market by any other maker. what could this be? who knows... but MS has enough in their coffers to find out, as well as enough R&D going on.

The Gate Keeper said:
you want to know the best way to promote windows phone? allow people to use it. i've shown my phone to virtually all my friends, and they all really like it. though they didn't use it for very long, they liked the capabilities of the OS in terms of smoothness, visual appearance, and functionality (well with what they played with).
i think we really just need to see MS continue to better the platform both on the phone side, but also on the developer side. they need to get the SDKs for all the hardware out asap, and then work on more SDKs that will bring features not yet on the market by any other maker. what could this be? who knows... but MS has enough in their coffers to find out, as well as enough R&D going on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^this! I've already had one person wish they hadn't got a desire - let's keep this up!
You know what Microsoft need though right? A huge pr stunt in the US, UK, France, Germany etc. Just to catch the headlines and make sure that good things are said

+1. I'm very glad to have gotten this phone and once the first update is out I'll be even happier. All my friends who have been on the fence about a new phone have heard from me!

For me the WP7 is perfect in the sense that I am done with the whole power user/modding thing. I used to have a TP2 and tried a lot of ROMs but in the end I just wanted a phone that did two things i.e fluid and give me exactly the information I needed at a glance so I could get on with my life rather than tinker with it all the damn time. And this is where the WP7 serves me very well.
I see a lot of 6.5 users whining here but I truly wish they had done a bit of reading on the WP7 platform so they would know that the WP7 is going to be nothing like the 6.5 and I truly hope it never will be because MS will permanently lose me to android. I'm glad I gave WP7 a chance after reading up on it even though I had washed my hands off the WM platform after the 6.5 nightmare.
Probably the biggest reason I'm enjoying the WP7 is because I knew fully well before buying the phone what features to expect and what it won't have out of the box so that saved me the headache of buying first and then whining about it in these forums. I mean what part of 1.0 don't you understand? Personally I think the 6.5 fan boys are even worse than android fan boys. For me the 6.5 offers quantity over quality and I guess some people are fine with that but not me and that's why I chose WP7.

f1restarter said:
I see a lot of 6.5 users whining here but I truly wish they had done a bit of reading on the WP7 platform so they would know that the WP7 is going to be nothing like the 6.5 and I truly hope it never will be because MS will permanently lose me to android. I'm glad I gave WP7 a chance after reading up on it even though I had washed my hands off the WM platform after the 6.5 nightmare.
Probably the biggest reason I'm enjoying the WP7 is because I knew fully well before buying the phone what features to expect and what it won't have out of the box so that saved me the headache of buying first and then whining about it in these forums. I mean what part of 1.0 don't you understand? Personally I think the 6.5 fan boys are even worse than android fan boys. For me the 6.5 offers quantity over quality and I guess some people are fine with that but not me and that's why I chose WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mm, the 6.5 people are really starting to piss me off. They seem to think that WP7 is a sequel to WM6.5 - which it quite obviously isn't. Microsoft are quite obviously trying to forget WM, as it was, and still is, total rubbish. At least the Android guys actually have a semi-decent OS to whine about :/

It Will Get Better.
adesonic you have my support ,just wait for the updates and be happy.

I agree with everything said. Winmo users hate it because they can't tweak it (though it doesn't need tweaks so you can actually use the phone instead of always trying to fix it).
Android users are complaining about how "closed" it is. I think android is the one that needs to worry. Android has climbed quickly due to it's "open" nature, which means its on more devices than any other OS. The problem being is that most of those devices are pure crap. There is definitely not an across the board experience on android. Hell, some devices are still on 1.5/1.6 of android. Fragmentation has exploded at a much higher rate than on winmo, which has started to lead to developer frustration because their apps don't run smoothly on all phones.
I see the really dedicated tweakers heading over to android, and people that only tweaked to make their phone run properly to switch to wp7. It will be a better overall OS in the next year than android.

f1restarter said:
For me the WP7 is perfect in the sense that I am done with the whole power user/modding thing. I used to have a TP2 and tried a lot of ROMs but in the end I just wanted a phone that did two things i.e fluid and give me exactly the information I needed at a glance so I could get on with my life rather than tinker with it all the damn time. And this is where the WP7 serves me very well..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy to see some people still face the reality. Thumbs up

I love my Omnia 7 as unlike 6.5 I have not yet reset the phone since I have purchased it and it's still running silky fast. And thank god for not having a task manager and just hitting the back button. I never want to go back to fiddling with my phone to try and get it running properly.

I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.

brummiesteven said:
I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i thought this was supposed to be a positive thread, specifically for wp7 ? it seems like just another comparison thread, or a "but we're doing good stuff now too!" thread.
anyway, i like the OP's idea of being a positive promoter. you may find it easiest to just start a youtube channel with your mission stated, and provide good tips, avoiding buzzwords, all while filtering the negative. people relate to a video demonstration of capabilities so very well.
good luck

brummiesteven said:
I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've not seen a 'you have htc' comment, once.
here, in the southeastern US, people ask "Is that a google phone ?". associating google + phone = awesome; is what it seems to be. at family/friend gatherings, i have yet to see a wp7 device. the wp6.x holdouts that i've personally known have changed to iphone or more commonly, android. phone envy ? i dunno, possibly. it seems more than anything the young folks i run into -know- the iphone from 30 feet away, know the android devices from 10 feet away, and know wp7 is still beta ware. i'm sorry, but that's the impression the young folks have here.
that being said, the older (than me) folks tend to gravitate to iphones. the large, easily read/understood apps and icons seem to attract them, along with the ease of use with their newish apple desktops. at physical therapy a few weeks ago, one gentleman was commenting about a recipe his aunt emailed him. on his phone. then he facetime'd her, and showed her the exercises that were going on. gimmicky ? i think not. i questioned him about android, wp7, and who made his phone. he didn't care, he just wanted "something that works very well, and doesn't require calling his nephew to fix."
that kind of attitude is what i'm seeing, here. people really don't -care- what the device is, what it runs, or who makes the software. all they want is a device that is mature, easily used, and easily maintained.
word-of-mouth is definitely in my neck o the woods(order of popularity/importance):
iphone
android (google phone more commonly known)
other
wp7 isn't on the radar. at all. it needs a ton of marketing, the current 'really' ads are funny, sharp, and true to life. what they -don't- do is show the phone. iphone ads on the other hand, show the phone (speeded up of course) doing what it does. android phones, show what they do. the wp7 commercials (which i love) point out the flaws of people, not the positives of the phone. we -all know- that people text and drive, are distracted everywhere in life by their phones. what we don't know is how the windows idea is going to solve this. SHOW IT !
hopefully this can be read, understood and not taken as fanboy bashing. it's very difficult for people to read a comment that isn't complete praise for a product and agree usually.

brummiesteven said:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting-- guess MS has done a much better job marketing WP7 in the UK than the US. The WP7 ads are on TV, but in NY I haven't come across anyone outside of techie circles who's aware of WP7 (awareness seems on par with Windows Mobile -- which is basically none -- whereas Android (which, as ohgood mentioned, is often known as "the Google phone") is almost approaching iPhone mindshare now). I'm the only WP7 owner I know of (and now the only WM owner as well-- everyone else switched to iPhones or Android handsets).
On the retail front, most WP7 displays I've seen at AT&T stores are hidden in the corner, and T-Mobile shops just have the HD7 on display along with the HD2 and a million Android phones, so it's pretty hidden (interestingly the HD7 is still in stock everywhere in retail, unlike even the HD2, which sold out almost immediately).

ohgood said:
i've not seen a 'you have htc' comment, once.
here, in the southeastern US, people ask "Is that a google phone ?". associating google + phone = awesome; is what it seems to be. at family/friend gatherings, i have yet to see a wp7 device. the wp6.x holdouts that i've personally known have changed to iphone or more commonly, android. phone envy ? i dunno, possibly. it seems more than anything the young folks i run into -know- the iphone from 30 feet away, know the android devices from 10 feet away, and know wp7 is still beta ware. i'm sorry, but that's the impression the young folks have here.
that being said, the older (than me) folks tend to gravitate to iphones. the large, easily read/understood apps and icons seem to attract them, along with the ease of use with their newish apple desktops. at physical therapy a few weeks ago, one gentleman was commenting about a recipe his aunt emailed him. on his phone. then he facetime'd her, and showed her the exercises that were going on. gimmicky ? i think not. i questioned him about android, wp7, and who made his phone. he didn't care, he just wanted "something that works very well, and doesn't require calling his nephew to fix."
that kind of attitude is what i'm seeing, here. people really don't -care- what the device is, what it runs, or who makes the software. all they want is a device that is mature, easily used, and easily maintained.
word-of-mouth is definitely in my neck o the woods(order of popularity/importance):
iphone
android (google phone more commonly known)
other
wp7 isn't on the radar. at all. it needs a ton of marketing, the current 'really' ads are funny, sharp, and true to life. what they -don't- do is show the phone. iphone ads on the other hand, show the phone (speeded up of course) doing what it does. android phones, show what they do. the wp7 commercials (which i love) point out the flaws of people, not the positives of the phone. we -all know- that people text and drive, are distracted everywhere in life by their phones. what we don't know is how the windows idea is going to solve this. SHOW IT !
hopefully this can be read, understood and not taken as fanboy bashing. it's very difficult for people to read a comment that isn't complete praise for a product and agree usually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There then seems to be a massive division between the US (and I assume) the Rest of the World (or at least the UK/Europe).
Over here hardly anybody knows what Android is. We have no little to no android advertisements.
The major problem with Google is they don't seem to want to advertise themselves, am I correct here? U.S. Advertisements are done by Verizon/Maunfacturers etc etc?
Manufacturers do advertise their phones over here but none of them mention that the phones have android. The samsung adverts have the android robot in them but they don't really explain them. HTC adverts don't mention android at all (they just have the "you" campain).
There are a few things. The CarphoneWarehouse (mobile phone store) has started advertising android instore but this doesn't extend to TV or billboards etc. The G1 had minor "With Google" stamps on it's adverts but most people I know assumed this just meant it came with Google Maps, Google Search etc and had nothing to do with the OS.
When Networks (Carriers) get android phones they may promote them instore but this will be for the phones themselves and nothing on them running Android.
Compare this to WP7:
- Adverts on TV All the time (They might not be the best, but they're there at least)
- Massive billboard adverts, showing the phones "This changes everything Gizmodo Quote".
- o2 promoting the HD7 specifically highlighting that it's a Windows Phone
- Orange doing the same with the Omnia and Mozart
- Product Placement (see http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...0089751101228_525696227_7296354_3969070_n.jpg)
Over here hardly anyone knows what Android is and it really used to piss me off how Google did no advertising whatsoever.
To the OP: Apologies that I took this post offtopic, I'm going to contact a Mod now and ask them if they will split the marketing discussion into a new topic.

Thumbs up here also. I've known about the differences between all the O/S and WP7, I actually came from 6.5. I brought one home, and the wife almost immediately said, go back and get me one too.
When I am using the phone in public places, sometimes I can feel people stretching to see what I am using. That usually generates a little conversation. About 70% say, "Oh, I've heard about those new Windows phones", or else they have seen the commercials and have not seen the phone. I tell them overall, this is a great system now, but not without its drawbacks (namely no custom ringtones.. and a few other things that will be addressed in the near future). Not the same old MS products. Go out and get one.

I am heartened to see so many positive comments, I may take up the earlier suggestion abou showing off some features of wp7 on YouTube