Database Info

This sort of thing pretty much proves Windows Mobile is dying...

http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7890.html

darthbane2k said:
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7890.html
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I think its pretty shameful.
Surur

Hmmm....
I don't think Windows Mobile is going anywhere. Theres too many of us out there.

i think this thread should be trash as its counter productive

rjgraves said:
I don't think Windows Mobile is going anywhere. Theres too many of us out there.
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That's what I thought about the Clie... and Palm OS... wow, this sucks. Yet it is oddly familiar to me

This does not prove anything. In fact, I was just reading a recent study which suggests that based on the trends that symbian phones are the ones on the way out and that WM phones, IPhone and other smart phones are all on the rise. Look at the MOTO Razr - it use to be the best selling phone on the market, not anymore. In fact - Motorolla is hurting and at risk now because they can't come out with a device to compete against the new WM smartphones - IPhone, Android phones etc....

think wm was at first mostly intresting for business people who dident want
palm og blackbarry for some reason
and us geeks who liked to have a phone/pda that was not unlike the windows
we had one the pc's
then apple made iphones and get the interest of a lot of people who used
to say that our phone were too much bricks too complex and not easy enough to use
now many many apps are being made for iphones but not sure that it's at the expense of
of wm just a bigger market
if anybody kills wm it would suspect android as it's closer to the open wm platform then apple is where lack of openness scar us away

Calling it a dying OS is pretty meaningless based on the release of an application from a single group in the Microsoft Labs (like google labs, it's more like a play area). Microsoft Labs has released a number of things that were never meant to go anywhere, and often things that were discontinued despite being popular. Considering what the application does (in terms of audience), it's more likely that the application was released to test the Deep Zoom service, or at least build up it's user base. Assuming popularity of Seadragon, I wouldn't be surprised to see it included in a lot of WM7 phones when they come out soon. This is also a common move by microsoft, waiting to release an app until they can make a grand entrance with it, which packaging this along with WM7 definitely fits.
Also remember that WM6.1 is actually the oldest of the smartphone competitors out there. We all know that MS is going to be releasing 7 in the very near future, which by all reports should put it into the realm of ridiculously cool features and in many ways it will either match or exceed almost anything currently out.

Rudegar said:
think wm was at first mostly intresting for business people who dident want
palm og blackbarry for some reason
and us geeks who liked to have a phone/pda that was not unlike the windows
we had one the pc's
then apple made iphones and get the interest of a lot of people who used
to say that our phone were too much bricks too complex and not easy enough to use
now many many apps are being made for iphones but not sure that it's at the expense of
of wm just a bigger market
if anybody kills wm it would suspect android as it's closer to the open wm platform then apple is where lack of openness scar us away
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I second this
totally agree

WM is going nowhere for the short term, when we get like Palm OS *then* I'll worry.

to say because MS released one app for iPhone befroe WM means the WM is dying is like saying the MS Office for Mac foreshadowed the downfall of the PC!
All it really means is tha MS acknowledges there is another market for their products.

i think its ms making the point that even the die hardest mac fan cant live without ms products

I think this is a great sign. I would love to see MS release a Zune Mobile app for the iPhone and one-up Apple on their own platform.

motionmind said:
I think this is a great sign. I would love to see MS release a Zune Mobile app for the iPhone and one-up Apple on their own platform.
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Cannot be done.
Apple does not allow software in their app store that resembles or competes too directly with anything they are putting out. Zune would obviously be a direct competitor.
Obviously there's always jailbroken iphones which could install it, but most of the apps people install with that are small distribution and generally not a threat. If microsoft put out the Zune software specifically with jailbroken iphones in mind, it would take less than a blink before Apple's lawyers were having orgasms at the idea of getting MS into court.
I know you're meaning it as a joke (at least I assume you are), and I'm taking your joke seriously...but I only do that because I also believe that it would be a truly great thing to see Apple forced into allowing the Zune software after they've worked so hard to exclude fair competition in business (you know, the same thing that kept MS court for a decade)
Sorry if that sounds bad, I admit, I've hated apple since before there were hard drives in their computers

speed_pour said:
I know you're meaning it as a joke (at least I assume you are), and I'm taking your joke seriously...
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I'm 100% serious. I wouldn't mind having an iPhone if I could use my Zune subscription service with it. I've tried iTunes and it's really a cluttered mess compared to the Zune software, plus no subscription options. My wife has an iPhone and a Zune player because of this same issue.

derekwilkinson said:
That's what I thought about the Clie... and Palm OS... wow, this sucks. Yet it is oddly familiar to me
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I can't confirm anything, but two years ago I think their R&D department consisted of a single guy with an old M505. Windows Mobile might not get all the cool stuff, but at least it's up to date and totally hackable.
I love the open platform and all its possibilities

I'm quite certain that there is a simple and clear reason for releasing seadragon on the iPhone before WM.
The iPhone exists in the form of two handsets only, and they are near identical hardware. This means that it is simple to write some code to make use of the CPU and graphics acceleration in the best possible way.
There are huge numbers of WM handsets, and they all have different capabilities and different hardware interfaces. This make it damn near impossible to code an application like seadragon. None also the dearth of genuinely impressive 3d games on the WM scene, as against the iPhone app store. Same reason.
Any games we make have to be tweaked for different resolution, hardware etc. Even the prolific developers (the guy behind s2u2, s2v etc.) finds it difficult and has to hard code in support for direct3d, opengl and all sorts of different things. Even then s2v struggles on the better phones out there.

I wonder why people keep reading msmobiles... it is the windows mobile equivalent of a tabloid, and the arguments the author keeps making over and over and over again can at best described as clownish.

What do you think about the new WinMo 7?? Like or Not?

UPDATE: Thanx for participating in the poll but kindly leave a small comment along with it. Thanx
When we say Windows Mobile, what is the first thing that comes to your mind? Emmmmm…
Extensive Customization!! - True
Multi Tasking!! - True
Copy Paste!! - True
External SD Card!! – True
Humongous Application and Easy Installation!! - True
Boring but we got UI replacements!! - That is true aswel
And we love that don’t we. That is because it has something that no other Mobile OS had before.
Well lets hear it from you people..
Was this what you were looking for? Or is it no where even close?
Click to expand...
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To read more go here - Windows Phone 7 might really die before its even Out?
Lets hear what you guys have to say.

what about love it hate it..u should add a poll but im getting 1 when they come out

It has new **** so i might as well love it.

hmmm. lets see how much we can crack open this os..

looks outdated visually boring like all things microsoft lately. The official statement appears to be Manufacturers will also be restricted to the smart tile user interface so not a smart move when you compare with the Android System.

I'm not worried about losing the freedom that we have on WinMo - I'm confident that the community here will find a way - and a great way, at that - to allow everyone to get what they want out of WP7, or the way I put it to my friend: I'm sure XDA-Devs will have there way with WP7.

I like the look and feel alot!!
But somehow I fear we will loose all our custimisazion possibilities...like custon ROM's simple apps, Registry tweaks, etc...
But lets see...

Like it quite a bit, seeing some great potential there.
I'm happy to see Microsoft used the Zune interface as guideline as many, including myself, liked the interface and where "hoping"/"seeing" the possibility of a phone entry to the Zune's menu structure. In this case Microsoft went further even and expanded on that UI just like i feel the Zune interface is an expanded/further developed titanium UI. Thank god we get rid of Touchflo/Sense finally, always hated it, but that's just my personal opinion ofc.
Next to that the new zoom/rendering/cleartype is very nice and a great addition to any OS.
Personally i dont care too much about all the social networking features as i hardly use them myself and suspect europeans overall use these less than americans. However i like the widespread intergration of these things, from the photo app, the Me tile etc. to the automatic selection of contact information.
Hope our great dev's and myself here at XDA will figure out the inner workings of it and be able to polish it to our liking.
my two cents for now

Wait to see how much the new OS is far to customizations, I belive that here at XDA we can hack again but why the no Power user can't? I don't complain with this new Apple/like orientation.
Hope it's not like it seems
[email protected]

Looks good to me. It is what I was expecting from a new OS. It isn't just rehashing and repackaging old ideas. I just hope there will be a call manager available for it

It looks good and advanced.
The only fear is that microsoft will go the apple way and cut the developments........
If m$ has not done that there is not better company !
If m$ has done that ( and done successfully ! ) its a sad day for XDA community.
Hope for the best be prepared for the worst !
Jump over to android if m$ has backstabed us

OS is just an OS. The application is more important.
If all the application needs to rebuild, I will simply go for android.
Why should I pay for an OS, when the efforts in the industry is now to be open source? What makes the os distictive are efficiency, multitask, free of dead lock ....But not UI.
If windows phone could make application runs on my HD lighting fast, I might go for it.
It is definetly the end to charge for a mobile OS. Will the greedy M$ make it free for us? If not, it is likely the end of wm.

Good UI, but too sad if we loose all stuff cooked over this forum....

windows 7 plays around microsoft services! buy only if u need these services

Now i understand why microsoft is not completely burying their 6.5.x series development
WM7 at its present state is not for me or for business people.
It is for Iphonish common consumers.
I was expecting WM7 to be an OS with same functional menus & functionalities as previous versions but UI but built on silverlight with zune & Xbox integration. Such a thing would have made WM7 to appeal all types of customers.
Its sad that micrsoft has decided to go in a rather commercial way as apple.
Unless WM7 supports custom skinning like Sense or Mobile shell, i don't think microsoft is going to win here.

They Need You
Years ago, in the dark ages, I was given a prototype computer from Europe to work with and redesign it if necessary. It was necessary. With some skill and a lot of luck I rebuilt a great computer for its time. The American company who owned the European rights to this computer was sinking $200 million into making this machine work for the US market. I was an independent designer (who had already upgraded this computer) and this large company did not want to listen to me or even give me anything for my work. So I never turned over the secrets to them but I wrote software for it for my software company. They worked on this computer for another 8 months and finally solved the problems. In the end, because other companies (like Commodor) beat this computer (that was way ahead of the others) to market, this great machine never caught on. The other computers weren't better but they were first and now were being used by the public. The company who would not sign a contract with me, lost their shirts in their computer division. The company was Timex.
I feel this may be the same problem with Windows mobile. Yes, they have terrific engineers but they should also look to you all on sites like this one to really get new ideas and advice. Because of this site and the programmers on it, my WM 6.1 OS has blown away even phones with snapdragon processors. I hope WM doesn't become a third rate OS because of their not listening to people like you on this site.

too little is revealed on the presentation, to me at least. i dont use social networking nor LIVE service (i do have XBOX360). i need a good organizer, customizable layout, multitasking, and NOT iphone alike!

WP7S seems to be too stripped down, compared to current WM versions. The press conference didn't go into detail, but I fear the highly customizable OS we came to know is a thing of the past - which is a bad thing imo.
But luckily Android is becoming a nice alternative.

the problem for ms is that so far most apps since pocketpc2000 works on our devices so if we can suffer the UI there are tons of apps free and paied you can use
leaving that would mean that android and even nokia n900 (also linux based) are already way ahead of ms in terms of apps and getting fancy games running also a thing ms say is not the aim of wm7 from the rumours i read say and if thats the case the no good gaming options
then iphone / ipod touch are also ahead of them
so far ms had pretty good development res for their mobiles being .net and microMFC as core techs
where iphone / ipod touch required you to buy a mac to make apps which given apples market % few developers had
not sure about how good the symbian/android/n900 development tools are
as an sdk is not really enough to make a good IDE

to be honest i find it pitifully bad.
as i was expecting it too be as soon as the words "stop, thinking off it as a pc, its a phone" came put right near the start.
no matter how much bull and spin and pr hype they put on it its a list based os. list after list after list...
this isn't really what people want is it?
I was really hoping for innovation instead its gone back 8 years.
forget windows phone, its gone windows dumb phone

The Microsoft Phone 7 Series ... What do we know from this vid?

http://www.gsmarena.com/microsoft_a...windows_phone_7_series_platform-news-1456.php

It is still slow to respond to commands. Looks nothing more than a facelift.

Microsoft killed itself with this ****....
I mean, who would ever want this? It's completely illogical, Applish, slow and stupid.I think, that me and most of the people will stick to 6.5 ...

Actually, it looks VERY GOOD for me
No, I won't be probably using it since day one, but I'll consider it when there will be serious phones with it (HW keyboard, huge display like 4") and many software for it (different keyboards, I'm using swype few days and it's awesome).
All MS should have done like year ago was remake memory management of CE OS 5.2 (f.ck those SLOTs and use desktop-Windows-like mm), some other improvements and compile it against armv6 and force Qualcomm to give HTC drivers for 3D and 2D and this all stuff for low cost. Everything would work just like now, with thousand of apps, but faster and faster and faster and BETTER.
And then integrate HTC Sense on system-level, also many apps and cooperate with HTC on those UI and apps, not like now that MS does core and speaks with HTC only about core and UI is just only in hands of HTC.

donniesd said:
It is still slow to respond to commands. Looks nothing more than a facelift.
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It's looks completely different, from the 6.5. It also behaves differently. It looks so responsive and quick. Don't know what to think about it's features. So far I like it, but I want to know more about Customization and Multitasking. I'll Wait until MIX10 to give my final judgment.

I am looking forward to it.
I think Microsoft should do this:
1) Make Windows Mobile 6.5 be the OS for geeks looking for complexity.
2) Make Windows Phone 7 Series be the OS for minimalists looking for simplicity.
3) Finally, they should release a mobile OS for geeks looking for complexity but just a revamped look (other than doing stuff like making buttons finger-friendly, there really is no way to make something simple complex, and something complex simple).

What do we know from this vid?
That it's something I will never buy ?

What do we know from this Vid ?
We know that it is a promotional video from M$. And that the finished product will more than likely be much different from this when it hits the street in 4Q.
And we know that looking at this video tells us nothing about how it will act on our phones or the phones we are about to buy.
Didn't we go through all this speculation when WM 6 was previewed ? And WM 6.1 and 6.5 and now we have to go through another 8 months of speculation over WP 7 ?
Why can't they just do an Apple ? Announce it 9:00 am Tues, and have the Upgrade online at 9:01

poetryrocksalot said:
The Microsoft Phone 7 Series ... What do we know from this vid?
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Oh, that's simple.
1. Taller phones - what a selling point! "Ours are narrower" -- "or Taller " -- either way, they're "what you want more of"
2. Nothing here that is not currently done on Android phones with their amazing array of widgets and real time integration of information.
3. Nothing that Motoblur doesn't already offer on its CLIQ Android phone.
Unless you mean by What do we know from this vid? that MS has hired some better ad-makers than before.
This must be what you're getting at, right... vs the revolutionary new operating system -- available at end of year -- by that time who knows what iPhone 4.0 series has, nor where Android is in those # of months.
Seems to me one of the last selling points for WM -- and a point I keep arguing against as being a conditioned mirage, and no longer a reality -- is its easy integration with business enterprise systems, thus making it a better choice for IT departments outfitting a sales force with mobile satellite offices.
Yet all I see is consumer coolness "I am off to the gym now" --- wow, even twitter users know that people use twitter for more relevant things now than the original "what are you doing right now".
They will not fall on their faces, they have too much desktop market share to do that, and there's a significant amount of brand loyalty that comes with that, as well as customer ignorance (as in "i don't understand about a lot of this new stuff, but at least if my desktop is Windows, and my phone is windows, i know everything will work") ... But is that a high enough measure of success to beat Android? --- "to not fall on their faces"?

quicksite said:
Oh, that's simple.
1. Taller phones - what a selling point! "Ours are narrower" -- "or Taller " -- either way, they're "what you want more of"
2. Nothing here that is not currently done on Android phones with their amazing array of widgets and real time integration of information.
3. Nothing that Motoblur doesn't already offer on its CLIQ Android phone.
Unless you mean by What do we know from this vid? that MS has hired some better ad-makers than before.
This must be what you're getting at, right... vs the revolutionary new operating system -- available at end of year -- by that time who knows what iPhone 4.0 series has, nor where Android is in those # of months.
Seems to me one of the last selling points for WM -- and a point I keep arguing against as being a conditioned mirage, and no longer a reality -- is its easy integration with business enterprise systems, thus making it a better choice for IT departments outfitting a sales force with mobile satellite offices.
Yet all I see is consumer coolness "I am off to the gym now" --- wow, even twitter users know that people use twitter for more relevant things now than the original "what are you doing right now".
They will not fall on their faces, they have too much desktop market share to do that, and there's a significant amount of brand loyalty that comes with that, as well as customer ignorance (as in "i don't understand about a lot of this new stuff, but at least if my desktop is Windows, and my phone is windows, i know everything will work") ... But is that a high enough measure of success to beat Android? --- "to not fall on their faces"?
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1) You mean longer screens due to the wVGA minimum requirement?

love it. windows mobile 7

The End Of Windows Mobile?

Hi,
I have been increasingly concerned over future development (if any) of Windows Mobile. Having bought my TG01 only in February with the joy of believing that windows mobile would expand to windows mobile 7, I am now very disappointed to discover that this won't happen. Here are some article snippets I have seen in the news highlights:
"TG01 won't get windows mobile 7 upgrade"
Original Source: Can't seem to find it again on google, but have seen it on google within last few days.
and
"Adobe kills Flash Player 10.1 for Windows Mobile 6.5, smitten with Windows Phone 7 Series"
"If you’re not feeling a bit sorry for the aging Windows Mobile platform, you should be. With Windows Phone 7 completely overshadowing Windows Mobile 6.5 and Adobe confirming the death of Flash 10.1 for WinMo, the stylus-happy smartphone operating system of yester-year is being kicked to the curb left and right."
Original Source:
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/02/2...-6-5-smitten-with-windows-phone-7-series.html
Just wondered what other WM users think? Personally, I'm tempted to sell my TG01 fast before it's too late, but can't help but wonder if I'm making the right decision, and wouldn't know what to replace it with.
I keep reading negative headlines for windows mobile, and I think it won't be long before most phone manufacturers choose Android as their OS, therefore making windows mobile redundant. I suppose windows mobile has been around for some time now, so perhaps I shouldnt have bought a phone with a OS that is heading for 'death'.

Wrong section for this thread... But...
Many WinMo devices in the past never received official updates... My phone is from 2008 and didn't even receive a 6.5 update...
If you ask me Microsoft is going in the wrong direction. . They abandoning everything that made the platform great to focus on interface and dumb down the OS (I hate how they are iPhoning the system). In a nutshell it's the PocketPC deevolved from a tiny computer into a mere feature phone... They have already lost a great deal of 3rd party developer (professional and amateurs... most freeware devs and hackers got off the wagon)... The lack of quality freeware and OSS content is what will utterly drive me and many others to Android.
Samsung has released Bada... HTC doesn't seem pleased with the UI modifications constraints and has an ever increasing number of Android devices... Regardless of my opinion about them they are the current two biggest WinMo phones producers. If these two companies drop the platform it's as good as dead.
The signs of death are way older than this (just look at the state of many OSS projects and emulation... also the smaller number of commercial apps and quality games... even some bogus apps iPhone clones that users currently request here). Adobe is just throwing a tantrum (but considering Microsoft is pushing Sirlverlight, Apple is developing Gianduia and the eminence of HTML5... I don't know if they can afford the price) very much like Mozilla did when they cancelled Fennec for WinMo.

install mobile shell 3.5 much better then any microsoft update lol

We even lost support for Skype ! Whate a shame. Windows Mobile is really coming to its end :/
I recently bought a HTC HD2 and sold it because I realised there is no future in Windows Mobile..

It might be the end of Windows Mobile.
But if our great XDA hackers manage to compile a fully functional Linux kernel with required drivers over time, I assure you the use of your device won't be lost. It's still one of the best hardware devices out there at the moment if you ask me.
With that, Windows Mobile will still be what it was. I'd not even WANT Windows 7 if it is heading the way it's going now..

You people need to get the facts right.
Firmware updates DO NOT COME FROM MICROSOFT.
They are custom built by each manufacturer.
It is HTC, SE, etc... that do NOT update their phones. They make money by selling hardware, so "no new features" on old hardware is an industry standard.
It is TRUE that windows mobile 7 will include an update feature similar to that of android where you can get OS updates without having to resort to flashing the whole firmware.
What isn't true is that microsoft will give you windows mobile 8 for free and so on...
Google is giving you "free" updates because android is a platform for google to sell it's services... gmail, calendar... etc.
TRUE STORY:
1. Make something easy to use and people will come running, and give up their privacy and data on the way.
2. People don't actually USE windows mobile. They just push the buttons. Windows mobile is a platform too, a business platform. You need a business built around MS technologies to take advantage of it's true value.

They told us, WM 6.5 will be continued for professional users. But I think, if this really happens, new software will be rare: Skype is off the hook. Many other may/will follow: They want big business with many customers.
I plan my switch to Android. HTC Desire is at the top of the wish list !! I hope there will be as much quality software as there is for windows mobile here at XDA devs! I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .

I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .
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The reason I'm never changing to Android.
Very sorry to hear that Skype has been discontinued. Is someone able to confirm that this:
"Can I still use Skype for Windows phones if I already have it?
Yes. People who have already installed Skype for Windows phones can of course continue to use it."
means that as long as you have skype installed, you can still use it, meaning forever?
Well, I'll continue using my TG01 for another 6 weeks and then I'm putting it on ebay for around £150 Sim-free. Not sure if I'll be following the phone market anymore. I've seen a rapid flow of tablets being made recently and with the addition of 3G, I think that they could possibly overtake mobile phone market, but as they are still coming to the surface, they need a little more time so it's a waiting game for now.
At least windows mobile was easy and fast to navigate, but what's the point in following it if developers are leaving in droves and software is dying out.
Bring on Windows 7 (not the mobile version, but a more portable version of the desktop version ). RIP windows mobile Good (in a way) while it lasted.

Tozzy2 said:
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
Very sorry to hear that Skype has been discontinued. Is someone able to confirm that this:
"Can I still use Skype for Windows phones if I already have it?
Yes. People who have already installed Skype for Windows phones can of course continue to use it."
means that as long as you have skype installed, you can still use it, meaning forever?
Well, I'll continue using my TG01 for another 6 weeks and then I'm putting it on ebay for around £150 Sim-free. Not sure if I'll be following the phone market anymore. I've seen a rapid flow of tablets being made recently and with the addition of 3G, I think that they could possibly overtake mobile phone market, but as they are still coming to the surface, they need a little more time so it's a waiting game for now.
At least windows mobile was easy and fast to navigate, but what's the point in following it if developers are leaving in droves and software is dying out.
Bring on Windows 7 (not the mobile version, but a more portable version of the desktop version ). RIP windows mobile Good (in a way) while it lasted.
Click to expand...
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In my opinion in the near future many WM-programmers will switch to Android-programming. As we can see here in this community this switch has already started! That's a nice developement. I tested the HTC Legend last week and it was nice! You can even use the phone with minimal dependence on Google (apart from Android updates of course)!
Certainly the old Skype will work. But if Skype changes some fundamental things, you have to switch to programs with skype support like Fring. When WM is really dead, even the support for those apps would die, too.

But surely, eventually, someone could hack the TG01 to make it compatible with windows mobile 7 unless TG01 isn't hardware equipped to be able to run it? Perhaps there could be a slim chance? After all, the problem doesn't lie in the phone, but in the inupgradeable OS.

Guys your right!
its just dawned on me: What is the future of ' Microsoft Windows Mobile'
As Windows Phone 7, sounds rubbish and Wm is losing support from:
Skype IM
Adobe Flash 10.1
I fear the days are numbered before Android takes it thrown

I'm disappointed as well.
I'm heavily relying on Outlook to sync up two pocket pc phones (TP2s), as well as SpbFinance.
I wonder what's going to happen to Outlook, once Windows doesn't cater to adults, but only social networking teens and tweens? I imagine that other OSes, that put in some effort to use Outlook & Exchange, will eventually drop that too.

I have a second PC at home with OpenSUSE 11 on it, more as a curiosity than anything else. Maybe it's time to install GCC, the Eclipse IDE, and the Android SDK on it and start all over again. I'll probably start hanging out in the Android Development Forum.
As an aside, all the above are available totally gratis. Download them, install and run them, all under the GNU licenses.
In the early days Microsoft gave away Embedded Tools 3 (C++ and VB) and the later improved Embedded C++ 4.0, with the sole purpose of getting the platform moving. That vision seems to have gone, but it's probably too late now anyway.

This forum was an excellent lesson for Microsoft to follow the Google/Android model instead of Apple/iPhone.
Unfortunately for us, MS decided to follow the Apple/iPhone model, at least for their phone line of business..
I do believe though that the driving force of XDA is such that it could force MS into creating a WM/PocketPC series of devices based on WM6.5.x following the Google/Android model.
MS fears that if they do that, they will cannibalize WP7 sales, as everybody would love it:
- OEMs would not have to dump their development investments
- DEVELOPERS would have the choice to continue to use their libraries or use Silverlight,
- END USERS would continue to use their purchased software,
- even MS itself would love strong demand for devices like HD2 which would in turn bring strong license revenues.
Boiling everything down into one question to MS:
- Since, all that most people need is a phone with a notification system and apps marketplace, why couldn't you put this into any WM phone? Cheap, effective, and guaranteed to increase OS sales.
Answer: Well we did this... (Marketplace, Office 2010 etc.)
- Too late, you first killed the product and now you are trying to save it!
IT IS THE ERA THAT HAVE CHANGED, NOT THE TECHNOLOGY. I believe that WP7 would simply be the Windows Vista... WP7.1 (with WM6.5 app legacy support and multitasking) will be the Windows 7 of MS mobile phones.
In any case, if I was MS, I would have never introduced WP7 in the first place until I had it ready as my market expects it to be... How could they fall into the Osborne Effect? Did they expect that this wouldn't happen with MS? Well it did...
Dimitris

I think Microsoft was on a good way with WM6.5.x. It got finger friendly, the user interface got more usable and consistent.
The only thing MS didn't understand for years is that one very elementary thing is missing for Windows Mobile.
A FREE development platform with a STYLEGUIDE and a nice set of STANDARD GUI Controls which look good, are finger friendly and easy to use. Go to the iPhone Development Homepage and you will see what I mean.
Even with WM6.5.x they didn't learn this. They made their GUI more consistent with nice looking skinnable buttons, new finger friendly controls, and a quite usable light weight today screen.
This is all good and was the right way. But why is there no documentation on how to implement titanium plugins? Why is there no documentation and API on how to use the new controls? Why don't old programs use the new skinnable look of the controls? Why is there no API for gestures in .NET CF? ...
The support for programmers is absolutely worse (you can say not existent) for WM6.5.x so nobody wants to develop for it anymore!
Best regards,
Markus

TeddY89h said:
I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tozzy2 said:
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure many applications are disappointing, but there are JUST SO MANY that you need not worry about the ones that are garbage.
Its the same with EVERY platform.
And being in the US #2 market share position while WM sits within the #4 "other" position, you can be assured that Android already has FAR FAR FAR more software developers than WM will *EVER* see again.

corwin42 said:
I think Microsoft was on a good way with WM6.5.x. It got finger friendly, the user interface got more usable and consistent.
They made their GUI more consistent with nice looking skinnable buttons, new finger friendly controls, and a quite usable light weight today screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's HTC's GUI covering the ugly, ugly, WM. M$ has no merit in this!
WP7 is going to be born dead. too little, too late!! what could WP7 bring new now? hubs? they took the wrong turn following\copying the iPhone model.
i am on my way to android!

I think he's refering to WM itself. Manilla is everything but lite! In all latest devices HTC has been draining phone resources left and right for the sake of their trademark GUI.
The notion most users have of Android is also basically the HTC GUI (the Android basic GUI is also not that great).
I also think WM is on the brink of death but the fact is Android is not the answer. AFAIK the apps developed don't have capped access to the machine resources so we can forget about apps that really require everything the machine can give (such a good universal media player).

I writing an app now for Windows Mobile and I'm writing it for Windows Mobile as its the only platform that it can be written on as it makes use of a number of technologies and features that the other phones lack (I will admit Android is closest and hence a prime interest of mine for future projects). Windows Phone is a step backward technologically for sure, but the success of the iPhone proves that technology has little to do with market success.
I don't think the problem is technology, I think the problem is managing people's expectations and battery life. For example everyone wants GPS, Wifi and cellular data etc with apps running in the background using them all, but that is a battery killer and hence a phone killer. Apple's solution was to limit via the OS what could be running at any one time and hence while Microsoft might claim it was crappy apps that were causing problems (and there is some truth to that, but crappy coders are pretty much a universal problem on any platform and again if I limit what an application platform can do I also limit the damage crappy coders can do), the real problem was battery life and I think the Android is going to find the same problem. So in reality limiting the OS is really about limiting users and helping to manage their expectations and if that can be done, then you can be successful like Apple and its iPhone who lowered user expectations technically and then achieved in filling those lowered expectations. They are continuing this success by raising technical expectations as technology allows them. For example video conferencing in their next iPhone as innovation, your kidding even my old HTC Universal had a forward facing camera for video conferencing years ago but network speeds tended to leave the user disappointed, but now cellular speeds might be up to snuff and Apple will be successful with this (battery life should be interesting of course).
So I don't think technology is the key in this market, I think its finding the balance between what is technically possible and user expectations, and so you might have to drop the technical level of the product down and then raise it as technology makes it possible which sounds exactly like what Microsoft is doing with the Windows Phone.

Marketing and design was the key to Apple's success.
For years Apple held their ground and finally had a beak with the iPod. It was small, had a huge memory and was good looking. All of a sudden Apple was cool again. Over the years (and hardware revisions) the iPod became a trend, an icon and the Apple brand was automatically associated with the concept of quality by the average Joe. At this point they barely needed to market their products or be innovative anymore they just release stuff that already exists in a prettier package but otherwise inferior (iPad anyone?)
Apple gained the smartphone marked based on the cool factor, it's icon status and good looks. The iPhone had a cool looking hardware and an appealing and easy to use OS. It's however an overpriced piece of hardware with an inferior OS but what can we do if people get stupid when they see shiny objects? The flock of users, hardware standardization and centralized online market attracted developers and now the iPhone has a huge amount of programs available (sure most suck but they also have some handy stuff and lots if games).
The Windows Mobile seems to have emerged originally as an OS for a tiny computer... Not a phone on steroids. Microsoft would always have a market just as long as they released a solid platform and offered what the others didn't... Microsoft hasn't been cool for a long time (it's not a crowd pleaser). It was easier to drown the opponent products when you could just through in pile of cash to regain terrain but this won't work anymore (Apple's rolling in it). If MS is going to release just another iPhone they their new OS is dead on the water.

[Q] For people who LIKE WP7 Only

I really like WP7, I recognise that it has some missing features but I am confident the se will be addressed with time. My concern is that anybody considering WP7 who reads this forum (or a plethora of other websites) could be easily put off by the negativity displayed by:-
1) Android/ IOS trolls
2) Disenchanted WM6.5 users who still want to spend their lives tweaking and cooking
Roms
3) People with an irrational fear of "the cloud".
4) Journalists who are desperate for MS to fail (because they are not Apple or Google
and thus not trendy!)
My question is, what can those of us who have faith in the platform do to balance the arguments a bit? I'm not talking about fanboism, I'm talking about expounding the positive features of WP7 like one note, like cloud sync, like the people hub, like the fast browser, like XBox integration for gamers (even though I do not use that much), like the easy access camera, like Zune and Zune Pass, like the fluid interface, like 25Gb of FREE Skydrive etc.
For example, I have a 16Gb HD7 with 25Gb skydrive means that to me I have a 41Gb device - more than my Ipad (see, I am platform agnostic).
If those of us who like WP7 do not actively support it, it will go the way of WebOS no matter how much Microsoft spend on their marketing budget.
WP7 is a revolution, let's get revolutionary about it!!!!

adesonic said:
I really like WP7, I recognise that it has some missing features but I am confident the se will be addressed with time. My concern is that anybody considering WP7 who reads this forum (or a plethora of other websites) could be easily put off by the negativity displayed by:-
1) Android/ IOS trolls
2) Disenchanted WM6.5 users who still want to spend their lives tweaking and cooking
Roms
3) People with an irrational fear of "the cloud".
4) Journalists who are desperate for MS to fail (because they are not Apple or Google
and thus not trendy!)
My question is, what can those of us who have faith in the platform do to balance the arguments a bit? I'm not talking about fanboism, I'm talking about expounding the positive features of WP7 like one note, like cloud sync, like the people hub, like the fast browser, like XBox integration for gamers (even though I do not use that much), like the easy access camera, like Zune and Zune Pass, like the fluid interface, like 25Gb of FREE Skydrive etc.
For example, I have a 16Gb HD7 with 25Gb skydrive means that to me I have a 41Gb device - more than my Ipad (see, I am platform agnostic).
If those of us who like WP7 do not actively support it, it will go the way of WebOS no matter how much Microsoft spend on their marketing budget.
WP7 is a revolution, let's get revolutionary about it!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with ya, WP7 brother. I try to do my part by telling it like it is, being the highest quality mobile OS yet released, but who knows if it is having fruitful effect.

I'm with you too
It may be missing some features but just by looking at it, you can see that once Microsoft does implement the missing features it will look a lot better than Android's.
It's the first OS that's actually impressed me ever since iPhone came out.
I liked Android but it felt unfinished and I felt that buying one was not a good investment, since by the next year they would stop handing out updates for it and they would release a device frequently.

Hell yeah! Let's do this thing!

you want to know the best way to promote windows phone? allow people to use it. i've shown my phone to virtually all my friends, and they all really like it. though they didn't use it for very long, they liked the capabilities of the OS in terms of smoothness, visual appearance, and functionality (well with what they played with).
i think we really just need to see MS continue to better the platform both on the phone side, but also on the developer side. they need to get the SDKs for all the hardware out asap, and then work on more SDKs that will bring features not yet on the market by any other maker. what could this be? who knows... but MS has enough in their coffers to find out, as well as enough R&D going on.

The Gate Keeper said:
you want to know the best way to promote windows phone? allow people to use it. i've shown my phone to virtually all my friends, and they all really like it. though they didn't use it for very long, they liked the capabilities of the OS in terms of smoothness, visual appearance, and functionality (well with what they played with).
i think we really just need to see MS continue to better the platform both on the phone side, but also on the developer side. they need to get the SDKs for all the hardware out asap, and then work on more SDKs that will bring features not yet on the market by any other maker. what could this be? who knows... but MS has enough in their coffers to find out, as well as enough R&D going on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^this! I've already had one person wish they hadn't got a desire - let's keep this up!
You know what Microsoft need though right? A huge pr stunt in the US, UK, France, Germany etc. Just to catch the headlines and make sure that good things are said

+1. I'm very glad to have gotten this phone and once the first update is out I'll be even happier. All my friends who have been on the fence about a new phone have heard from me!

For me the WP7 is perfect in the sense that I am done with the whole power user/modding thing. I used to have a TP2 and tried a lot of ROMs but in the end I just wanted a phone that did two things i.e fluid and give me exactly the information I needed at a glance so I could get on with my life rather than tinker with it all the damn time. And this is where the WP7 serves me very well.
I see a lot of 6.5 users whining here but I truly wish they had done a bit of reading on the WP7 platform so they would know that the WP7 is going to be nothing like the 6.5 and I truly hope it never will be because MS will permanently lose me to android. I'm glad I gave WP7 a chance after reading up on it even though I had washed my hands off the WM platform after the 6.5 nightmare.
Probably the biggest reason I'm enjoying the WP7 is because I knew fully well before buying the phone what features to expect and what it won't have out of the box so that saved me the headache of buying first and then whining about it in these forums. I mean what part of 1.0 don't you understand? Personally I think the 6.5 fan boys are even worse than android fan boys. For me the 6.5 offers quantity over quality and I guess some people are fine with that but not me and that's why I chose WP7.

f1restarter said:
I see a lot of 6.5 users whining here but I truly wish they had done a bit of reading on the WP7 platform so they would know that the WP7 is going to be nothing like the 6.5 and I truly hope it never will be because MS will permanently lose me to android. I'm glad I gave WP7 a chance after reading up on it even though I had washed my hands off the WM platform after the 6.5 nightmare.
Probably the biggest reason I'm enjoying the WP7 is because I knew fully well before buying the phone what features to expect and what it won't have out of the box so that saved me the headache of buying first and then whining about it in these forums. I mean what part of 1.0 don't you understand? Personally I think the 6.5 fan boys are even worse than android fan boys. For me the 6.5 offers quantity over quality and I guess some people are fine with that but not me and that's why I chose WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mm, the 6.5 people are really starting to piss me off. They seem to think that WP7 is a sequel to WM6.5 - which it quite obviously isn't. Microsoft are quite obviously trying to forget WM, as it was, and still is, total rubbish. At least the Android guys actually have a semi-decent OS to whine about :/

It Will Get Better.
adesonic you have my support ,just wait for the updates and be happy.

I agree with everything said. Winmo users hate it because they can't tweak it (though it doesn't need tweaks so you can actually use the phone instead of always trying to fix it).
Android users are complaining about how "closed" it is. I think android is the one that needs to worry. Android has climbed quickly due to it's "open" nature, which means its on more devices than any other OS. The problem being is that most of those devices are pure crap. There is definitely not an across the board experience on android. Hell, some devices are still on 1.5/1.6 of android. Fragmentation has exploded at a much higher rate than on winmo, which has started to lead to developer frustration because their apps don't run smoothly on all phones.
I see the really dedicated tweakers heading over to android, and people that only tweaked to make their phone run properly to switch to wp7. It will be a better overall OS in the next year than android.

f1restarter said:
For me the WP7 is perfect in the sense that I am done with the whole power user/modding thing. I used to have a TP2 and tried a lot of ROMs but in the end I just wanted a phone that did two things i.e fluid and give me exactly the information I needed at a glance so I could get on with my life rather than tinker with it all the damn time. And this is where the WP7 serves me very well..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy to see some people still face the reality. Thumbs up

I love my Omnia 7 as unlike 6.5 I have not yet reset the phone since I have purchased it and it's still running silky fast. And thank god for not having a task manager and just hitting the back button. I never want to go back to fiddling with my phone to try and get it running properly.

I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.

brummiesteven said:
I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i thought this was supposed to be a positive thread, specifically for wp7 ? it seems like just another comparison thread, or a "but we're doing good stuff now too!" thread.
anyway, i like the OP's idea of being a positive promoter. you may find it easiest to just start a youtube channel with your mission stated, and provide good tips, avoiding buzzwords, all while filtering the negative. people relate to a video demonstration of capabilities so very well.
good luck

brummiesteven said:
I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've not seen a 'you have htc' comment, once.
here, in the southeastern US, people ask "Is that a google phone ?". associating google + phone = awesome; is what it seems to be. at family/friend gatherings, i have yet to see a wp7 device. the wp6.x holdouts that i've personally known have changed to iphone or more commonly, android. phone envy ? i dunno, possibly. it seems more than anything the young folks i run into -know- the iphone from 30 feet away, know the android devices from 10 feet away, and know wp7 is still beta ware. i'm sorry, but that's the impression the young folks have here.
that being said, the older (than me) folks tend to gravitate to iphones. the large, easily read/understood apps and icons seem to attract them, along with the ease of use with their newish apple desktops. at physical therapy a few weeks ago, one gentleman was commenting about a recipe his aunt emailed him. on his phone. then he facetime'd her, and showed her the exercises that were going on. gimmicky ? i think not. i questioned him about android, wp7, and who made his phone. he didn't care, he just wanted "something that works very well, and doesn't require calling his nephew to fix."
that kind of attitude is what i'm seeing, here. people really don't -care- what the device is, what it runs, or who makes the software. all they want is a device that is mature, easily used, and easily maintained.
word-of-mouth is definitely in my neck o the woods(order of popularity/importance):
iphone
android (google phone more commonly known)
other
wp7 isn't on the radar. at all. it needs a ton of marketing, the current 'really' ads are funny, sharp, and true to life. what they -don't- do is show the phone. iphone ads on the other hand, show the phone (speeded up of course) doing what it does. android phones, show what they do. the wp7 commercials (which i love) point out the flaws of people, not the positives of the phone. we -all know- that people text and drive, are distracted everywhere in life by their phones. what we don't know is how the windows idea is going to solve this. SHOW IT !
hopefully this can be read, understood and not taken as fanboy bashing. it's very difficult for people to read a comment that isn't complete praise for a product and agree usually.

brummiesteven said:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting-- guess MS has done a much better job marketing WP7 in the UK than the US. The WP7 ads are on TV, but in NY I haven't come across anyone outside of techie circles who's aware of WP7 (awareness seems on par with Windows Mobile -- which is basically none -- whereas Android (which, as ohgood mentioned, is often known as "the Google phone") is almost approaching iPhone mindshare now). I'm the only WP7 owner I know of (and now the only WM owner as well-- everyone else switched to iPhones or Android handsets).
On the retail front, most WP7 displays I've seen at AT&T stores are hidden in the corner, and T-Mobile shops just have the HD7 on display along with the HD2 and a million Android phones, so it's pretty hidden (interestingly the HD7 is still in stock everywhere in retail, unlike even the HD2, which sold out almost immediately).

ohgood said:
i've not seen a 'you have htc' comment, once.
here, in the southeastern US, people ask "Is that a google phone ?". associating google + phone = awesome; is what it seems to be. at family/friend gatherings, i have yet to see a wp7 device. the wp6.x holdouts that i've personally known have changed to iphone or more commonly, android. phone envy ? i dunno, possibly. it seems more than anything the young folks i run into -know- the iphone from 30 feet away, know the android devices from 10 feet away, and know wp7 is still beta ware. i'm sorry, but that's the impression the young folks have here.
that being said, the older (than me) folks tend to gravitate to iphones. the large, easily read/understood apps and icons seem to attract them, along with the ease of use with their newish apple desktops. at physical therapy a few weeks ago, one gentleman was commenting about a recipe his aunt emailed him. on his phone. then he facetime'd her, and showed her the exercises that were going on. gimmicky ? i think not. i questioned him about android, wp7, and who made his phone. he didn't care, he just wanted "something that works very well, and doesn't require calling his nephew to fix."
that kind of attitude is what i'm seeing, here. people really don't -care- what the device is, what it runs, or who makes the software. all they want is a device that is mature, easily used, and easily maintained.
word-of-mouth is definitely in my neck o the woods(order of popularity/importance):
iphone
android (google phone more commonly known)
other
wp7 isn't on the radar. at all. it needs a ton of marketing, the current 'really' ads are funny, sharp, and true to life. what they -don't- do is show the phone. iphone ads on the other hand, show the phone (speeded up of course) doing what it does. android phones, show what they do. the wp7 commercials (which i love) point out the flaws of people, not the positives of the phone. we -all know- that people text and drive, are distracted everywhere in life by their phones. what we don't know is how the windows idea is going to solve this. SHOW IT !
hopefully this can be read, understood and not taken as fanboy bashing. it's very difficult for people to read a comment that isn't complete praise for a product and agree usually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There then seems to be a massive division between the US (and I assume) the Rest of the World (or at least the UK/Europe).
Over here hardly anybody knows what Android is. We have no little to no android advertisements.
The major problem with Google is they don't seem to want to advertise themselves, am I correct here? U.S. Advertisements are done by Verizon/Maunfacturers etc etc?
Manufacturers do advertise their phones over here but none of them mention that the phones have android. The samsung adverts have the android robot in them but they don't really explain them. HTC adverts don't mention android at all (they just have the "you" campain).
There are a few things. The CarphoneWarehouse (mobile phone store) has started advertising android instore but this doesn't extend to TV or billboards etc. The G1 had minor "With Google" stamps on it's adverts but most people I know assumed this just meant it came with Google Maps, Google Search etc and had nothing to do with the OS.
When Networks (Carriers) get android phones they may promote them instore but this will be for the phones themselves and nothing on them running Android.
Compare this to WP7:
- Adverts on TV All the time (They might not be the best, but they're there at least)
- Massive billboard adverts, showing the phones "This changes everything Gizmodo Quote".
- o2 promoting the HD7 specifically highlighting that it's a Windows Phone
- Orange doing the same with the Omnia and Mozart
- Product Placement (see http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...0089751101228_525696227_7296354_3969070_n.jpg)
Over here hardly anyone knows what Android is and it really used to piss me off how Google did no advertising whatsoever.
To the OP: Apologies that I took this post offtopic, I'm going to contact a Mod now and ask them if they will split the marketing discussion into a new topic.

Thumbs up here also. I've known about the differences between all the O/S and WP7, I actually came from 6.5. I brought one home, and the wife almost immediately said, go back and get me one too.
When I am using the phone in public places, sometimes I can feel people stretching to see what I am using. That usually generates a little conversation. About 70% say, "Oh, I've heard about those new Windows phones", or else they have seen the commercials and have not seen the phone. I tell them overall, this is a great system now, but not without its drawbacks (namely no custom ringtones.. and a few other things that will be addressed in the near future). Not the same old MS products. Go out and get one.

I am heartened to see so many positive comments, I may take up the earlier suggestion abou showing off some features of wp7 on YouTube