Related
Just got my new HTC Touch Cruise and was thrilled with it.... at first. I had gone to an iphone out of curiosity and although I really love the interface, I found that Apple's limitations (even with jailbroken and unlocked -- so I could download apps) are too restrictive. I missed the versatility of winmo and the ability to install the software I want.
BUT.... within the week of using my Polaris I'm back to "business as usual" with WinMo, especially the Windows Mobile Device Center.... it doesn't startup automatically (as it should) -- it doesn't sync my notes -- and now my push email stopped working. I installed Bepe's ROM (great job BTW!) and all the extras but find that I have tweak many of them to get them working properly -- maybe that's just the result of using the unofficially-cooked WinMo 6.1 ROM, I don't know.
The bottom line is.... I'm tired of having to constantly tweak, correct, fiddle with MS and MS op system based software! I really don't like Apple -- they seem pretty arrogant to me -- but I have to admit that during my "iphone days" all the software apps I downloaded worked w/o tweaking and nearly everything I installed worked right "out of the box". No doubt that's due to Apple's control of the downloads (via itunes) which they argue is to the user's benefit (even if it limits what's available). Why can't MS get it right the first time? Or at least fix the issues that are identified.... like the API drivers?
Sorry to vent but I suspect I'm not alone.
brucewilsonpa said:
The bottom line is.... I'm tired of having to constantly tweak, correct, fiddle with MS and MS op system based software!
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Click to collapse
Dude, that's what makes it all fun and worth doing! If everything MS put out worked perfectly out of the box, there'd be no need for cooking roms, finding a better way, unlocking, and what we'd have is just another iphone, just in a different flavor. Sorry man, I disagree. This is what makes it all worth while.
Up to a point I agree -- but when you have to mess with the same issue repeatedly, the fun is over.
Some weeks ago I've read a funny article about the difference between Win and Mac OS Users.
Windows Users were described as "real" men who are lying underneath their PCs, with oily skin like working under their car and in contrast Mac Users as old grannys who call the garage for every repair, because they can't do it on their own. The article wasn't meant completely serious but matches the posts here.
So, a little OT and not contributing but i had to tell it....
Greetz
I too just came from an iPhone to the Touch Cruise, and I have to say I missed WinMo. It does have a ways to go, but I agree with the above comments that tweaking it is half the fun. I just fealt to restricted with my iPhone. I am now using SPB Shell 2.0 and PPlus, along with HTC's touchFlo, and I have a very enjoyable experience.
I am currently using Missing Sync with my macbook and have no trouble at all syncing my stuff, so I can not comment on the Device center.
I personally enjoy that we have the freedom to mod our devices. but i think that when we're modding them just to make them work the way they were supposed to be working out of the box, that part is annoying.
it's the same argument over and over again. apple has controlled software that runs on a very limited set of known hardware so very few incompatibility issues. ms software on the other hand is open to way more developers and the variations in the hardware make for a ton of combinations that potentially cause incompatibility issues.
increased flexibility is definitely a positive thing and i wouldn't trade it for a restrictive platform, but there can be annoyances.
mikef1182 said:
I am currently using Missing Sync with my macbook and have no trouble at all syncing my stuff, so I can not comment on the Device center.
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Click to collapse
But Missing Sync only works with OS-X, am I correct? Does it sync to Vista?
I should clarify that my initial venting was not against tweaking -- I came back to WinMo from the iphone because I, too, enjoy the flexibility and opportunity to make my device work the way I like. I am frustrated by the MS software that doesn't seem to do what's intended, like WMDC. The fun goes out of it when I find myself having to reboot, reinstall, or whatever, multiple times.
brucewilsonpa said:
But Missing Sync only works with OS-X, am I correct? Does it sync to Vista?
I should clarify that my initial venting was not against tweaking -- I came back to WinMo from the iphone because I, too, enjoy the flexibility and opportunity to make my device work the way I like. I am frustrated by the MS software that doesn't seem to do what's intended, like WMDC. The fun goes out of it when I find myself having to reboot, reinstall, or whatever, multiple times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah its mac only software. you could always go the exchange route and bypass the computer totally. I did that for awhile before I got my mac.
This is a serious question although I appreciate it could be taken as a troll.
Should Microsoft start again with their mobile OS? I know why they have kept compatability with older software but I personally think this is hurting them more than throwing away backwards compatability.
Look at the iPhone - that started from scratch and has grown to prominence without any back catalog of software.
Cheers, Rob.
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
Exchange Server
Hi all
I use an exchange server provider and I find it's features really useful, not just on my mobile, but in MS Outlook 2007, in fact much more so on the PC. Because there are few equivalent services that I can get for the same price that would be compatible with both PC software and a mobile device, I am essentially tied to Microsoft products for the time being. MS have done very well at preventing 3rd party PIM clients accessing the full services of an exchange server.
Google are in the process of offering a full exchange service via Google Sync. If they are successful in this (which they clearly will be) then they are really only one step away from offering their own exchange type server which will be natively compatible with?? Android of course.
I would consider switching from WM to another OS if:
1. That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
OR
2. There were comparable alternatives to a remote MS Exchange server system which could be accessed from the device.
In fact, Windows Mobile 6.5 can't access all the features of an Exchange server (e.g. being able to set specific Follow up reminder dates & times for emails and viewing other users calendars, etc.). So actually, an alternative system doesn't need to beat MS Outlook, it just needs to beat the feature limited WM 6.5 Pocket Outlook.
Sorry for the ramble but I can't see many large companies switching to Android if their employees can't accept a meeting request OTA!
In answer to the original question, yes, MS REALLY should start again with Windows Mobile and this time make sure users are able to access all the features of an MS exchange server OTA.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
From what I've read on the developers Blogs the WM7 framework is entirely different to 6x.. so most of them are concentrating on this.. appararently the performance is at least doubled (this wasn't an MS fanboy). I do assume though that MS will do all they can to be backwards compatible .. the howl that happened on Palm will be nothing as to the reaction should MS completely leave their userbase high & dry. Yes Apple scored well by timing their entry into the market perfectly.. but they risk being trapped in exactly the same way by advances in technology.
I don't think it's game over in any direction just yet.. MS simply dosn't give up and there is absolutely nothing similar in the way Palm ran itself into the ground.. Obviuosly the media is a huge cheerleasder for both Google & Apple - for some reason believing these guys are in some way cool, uncommerical, funloving dudes who are only interested in the love..
look guys, some years passed by, and ONLY thing m$ wants to say to us is:
let's make smartphones, AGAIN.
pda's as mobile comps are DEAD.
f your 6.5 and rich kids.
f android and their feeble ****oozas.
xoen / nothin
Sleuth255 said:
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
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Click to collapse
omg, sleuth is going over to the dark side
btw, which droid model are you looking at?
Personally, i love WM
I agree with Andrew-in-woking. I love the ability to sync my contacts, notes, calender, music, photos, videos, and documents both ways with my computer and my phone. And, the thing I've been telling everyone is that devices supported by a company will work best with other devices supported by the same company. I've been using windows on all of my computers since I can remember, and I will only have the best phone experience if I get a windows powered phone, which would provide the best connectivity with my computer. It doesn't make sense to get an Iphone, unless you have an apple computer, in my eyes. Same with every other device. Get android if you have other devices powered by google os. Same with Samsung, sony, etc. If you start connecting devices across different companies, it will only lead to more problems, reducing the quality of your experience with that device. Those are my 2 cents.
funny how everybody is complain about windows mobile compares to iphone.
y havnt nobody complaining about crackberry to iphone?
not everybody buy a windows mobile phone and use it as a toy (iphone)
i love my Acer neotouch S200 with 1G cpu with custom 6.5 rom 23506, i'm not sure if i still want an android phone. oh, the only reason i want android phone is because of google gps navigator.
I like windows mobile the way it is, when it become's like an iphone, there is no point in using it anymore.
I'm not saying anything can't be improved, just that if it interface's like an iphone, you might as well buy an iphone which is what I suspect most people are talking about when comparing them.
Say goodbye to the usefulness of your high resolution screen's while using a child and finger friendly interface....massive icon's, text, menu's, spend half your time zooming in and out...panning etc.
andrew-in-woking said:
That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
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Click to collapse
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
I'm using Microsoft OS for about 15-20 years. First DOS, later Windows, and in the meanwhile also WM.
I don't need to sync anything between PC and phone but I want a "full" OS, you can customize whatever you want, and I love my Win32 API. On the IPhone and Android you don't even have a file explorer without downloading an extra app right? Yes I know "you can get an App for everything." And sure IPhone is comfortable and user friendly. But it's like that because it's a consumer device and being that it's probably better than WM. But actually WM is not only a toy (for people who don't feel comfortable with the more tech stuff) - it's an OS.
I don't really understand all the bad talking about WM recently. I agree using the GUI without a stylus is a pain in the ass but as I can see more and more parts of the OS are being updated with each new 6.5 build. And what's the deal about it.... it's only the f.... GUI!!!
Microsoft won't restart at all. Their OS will go and and on just like their desktop versions did. Remember all the talking back then. OS/2 kills Windows, MAC kills Windows.... IMO nothing of that happened at all.
MS over?
Don't believe the hype Sleuth.
HTC on windows rules.
Good to see you here.
Really appreciated your uc work on my HD.
New rom from Miri, uc'ed all my settings & apps.
Hours of fun.
100,000 apps for the iPhone in it's short life. 18,000 in all of WinMo's existence. 50K on Android already. M$ had a major chance when it buried Palm but it took the iPhone to bring real innovation back. Geezuz.
WinMo market share was cut in half in the last year. M$ is no longer considered a contender in the space dominated by iPhone, RIM, Nokia and now Android.
I too like the common api. But I've seen iPhone apps that blow my socks off. Hopefully, HTC will release a killer platform for android. I need capacitive, rez and battery life.
Moto Droid is the leader here now but it can't touch HTC keyboards. Lots of room for HTC to catch up. But android 2.0 on that very same droid can turn off bt and fire up your wifi profile when you walk into the door based on its continuously updated positional awareness. Weather works the same way, using wunderground school installations from a known database to give you local weather down to the exact temp where you are standing. You can use the camera to scan a bar code in a supermarket and it'll leverage Google's claim to fame and return info/best pricing on the web for the same item.
Meanwhile, m$ can't even make a decent marketplace. They are hobbled by feature drift and don't have a security clue (see chainfire's 2hr hack just to prove the point).
I wish it were otherwise but I've seen this all before...
Phonebook
munrobasher said:
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Rob
You make a good point for mail and tasks but it's not quite the same as dialing directly from your cnmtacts.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
Is this actually an issue of the OS itself? It's just market strategies and modern GUI experiences. With a good kernel (like we have with WM) it's no problem to add such features on top of it (if you just actually do it), but if you have limited kernel functionality but with the "good" GUI things on top it's harder to change the OS underneath it. I have no clue about Android yet but on the IPhone you can't even run background processes. Is Android just as flexible as the Windows kernel architecture? From what I heard I assume it's not, otherwise please proove me wrong.
The problem as you can tell it is more like Microsoft didn't care a lot about WM during the last couple years and especially HTC did what MS didn't, and now they need their time to catch up on their competitors again. But of course I'm also hoping they're doing fine with WM 7. I like the road they are going with 6.5 and if WM 7 is just like the new killer OS we're all waiting for (Windows 7 desktop isn't too bad neither right?) then why do you need your Apple and Google anymore???
FTTB, I'll probably get a Tilt 2 for hardware reasons. The iPhone is too restrictive for my tweaking tastes (although being a part of the jailbreak community would be fun) and no killer hardware for Android exists yet.
m$ needs a wake-up call. The mobile world is passing it by. This time next year (when I need another new gizmo) will be interesting. My predictions go with Android because Google has the information. Gathering it is what they do. Heck, the current navigation app on Android leverages the Google maps data for for actual image based turn by turn instruction. Impressive and always up to date.
I never understood it because it seems to contradict itself.
One thing I hear a lot of is how hard it is to program for Windows Mobile devices. That it just isn't developer friendly as long as graphics and commands go. Can't say I know much about this since I'm not a developer.
Still at the same time I see a lot of crapware. By this I mean programs that are just constant repeats of each other and sometimes it's just a crappy do nothing program. Don't get me wrong I know developers take time and work to do what they do, but OMG some of the programs are complete crap. The games are sometimes nothing more than sprites taken from other games with a simple jump/shoot interface added to them. Apps that make fart sounds. 20 apps that schedule tasks. 100 clock apps. 1 millions custom UIs. etc. Constant same things that in the end don't really make the Windows Mobile OS anymore appealing. What confuses me is if programs are really that hard to develop then why are so many people able to create and recreate the crapware that we see nowaday?
I think one of the main reasons is that
1) Windows Mobile has been around for so long, the crap just build up
2) (no idea about this) I'd guess that if you can write a program for Windows, Windows mobile is not that much harder, so a greater number of people know how to write ****ty programs.
The one nice thing about iPhone is the market place is so crap free, though I'd rather have to wade through the crap to find the priceless gems then have someone else decide what I could and could not have on my device.
Moved as not software release.
Even with just reading topic header all that came to my head is least you don't have an iphone as then there's a amazing amount
As someone with experience of what it's like to develop apps for Windows Mobile I can shed a little light on it. One of the problems is what Microsoft provide to developers - called the compact framework - i.e. it's toolkit for building program interfaces. The interfaces it produces are very basic at best, and if you want to do anything clever (e.g. gradients, transparency, iphone style animated menus, image buttons, etc. etc.) you have jump through a lot of hoops.
Developers should be able to concentrate on writing what makes their app good, and not worry about having to make the interface looking good - that should be Microsoft's job. Unfortunately Microsoft have only provided very basic looking stuff. That'll change with windows phone 7 though.
Of course (and to defend Microsoft slightly) the iphone is easier for apple to support developers as it is one phone - whereas windows mobile is multiple screen resolutions, multiple OS versions, different processors, different manufacturers.... etc. Again why Microsoft are moving to a more defined hardware platform with windows phone 7 specs.
But it is possible to right really good/fancy interfaces for windows mobile - I like to think I do - but that's not through any support from Microsoft. To write a fancy animated menu with nice blending of colours and animated zooms and swishing left and right etc. etc. on the iphone takes 5 minutes. To do the equivalent on Windows Mobile took me about a month of writing my own GUI toolkit.
When it comes to games there's no excuse - the fact I can run playstation games such as Tekken 3 on my HD2 shows that it's capable of amazing things. The games companies need to stop shunting rubbish.
Ian
stylez said:
Moved as not software release.
Even with just reading topic header all that came to my head is least you don't have an iphone as then there's a amazing amount
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd consider this to be true too, but the only thing I can say is that at least they have a considerable amount of games and apps that are new, newer looking and some more useful than others here. I personally don't like iPhone and own an HD2, but I just notice how useless so many apps are whenever I look through the apps section in Handango, PocketGear and WM Marketplace. Not to mention how outdated most of them are too.
you guys forget that there are alot of windows ce 5 devices still in exsistence and they are still alive and kiking.... sort of...
as for the newer devices i love what they have done with htc hardware... altho the OS updates culd be readialy available to us mortals
as for the crapware.... you can allways uninstall the program or never run it if it came with your phone....
id like to say that the sence ui is mostly a bothersome resorce hog that i shut down every time i hard reset or try to get a rom that dosent have it cooked in, it culd also be considered as crapware....
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
I have HTC Touch HD and i test a lot of cooked roms and an official roms but it still slowly.
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Regards
This might have been the wrong place to ask that question, but have you seen how simple the OS for the iPhone is? If you compare it with WM, it's just a start menu with tweaks. If you did that to WM, it'd fly as well too because it has no reason to use up it's power or memory in keeping a very nice interface smooth.
Good evening, don't forget that Windows Mobile (WinCE) is way older than Iphone... Microsoft WinCE was created in 1996 beetwin that time and now, things have change 3g, smartphone, colour-screen, wifi,... Windows Mobile is not ready it's like a wall with 15 layer of wallpaper. While Iphone is new it's developed with all this technologies built-in like a wall with only one wallpaper and the best one.
Between Cassipeia A20 and latest HTC... it's been a long way.
hugomenezes said:
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
I have HTC Touch HD and i test a lot of cooked roms and an official roms but it still slowly.
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what windows mobile can do that iphone cannot..
1st windows can unzip RAR,zip...etc.. alot kind of format when company send u a email that have attachment in ZIP that iphone unable to read the file. but windows mobile can!
2nd playing play with fews friend on wifi local game network on laptop connecting windows mobile.but iphone cannot!
3rd windows mobile can play FLASH format. but iphone cannot!
4th windows mobile able to support more video/audio codec. but iphone cannot!
5th windows mobile can download bittorrent!. but iphone cannot
6th windows mobile can change battery when ur battery is low. but iphone cannot!
7th windows mobile more app.
8th windows mobile can sync any song/video and other without installing itunes.but iphone must install itunes to add video or song
9th windows mobile can share song/video/photo other file but iphone cannot!
sorry too many to add.. lazy
Moved to general, as not D&H.
WARNING: I WANT NO FLAMING ON THIS THREAD, ONLY DISCUSSION AND HEALTHY DISCUSSION. ANY FLAMING THE THREAD WILL BE CLOSED AND ACTION WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST THE MEMBERS.
hugomenezes said:
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GPU is faster; generally PowerVR versus Adrena 200 (AMD Z430). Has nothing to do with the OS. In my opinion, the Apple OS approach is way too restrictive.
One thing WiMo can not do that the iPhone can is WPA2-Enterprise authentication without a certificate. But that's about it. At the end of the day, I don't miss my iPhone, very happy with my HTC HD2.
Well.. if you are comparing iOS with WiMo.. you might aswell add Android.
Well, personally I prefer both Android and WinMo over iOS.
why?
basically, because you can do more with both android and WinMo without rooting/jailbreaking the device. Than you could with an non-jailbroken iPhone.
with Android and Winmo:
- You can use your phone as a wi-fi hotspot
- Download different movie/media players
- Brows your files on your device and/or computer
- etc
However..
You can't add icons onto your desktop in WinMo. Neither can you add folders on your own(It is possible that i've been missing something here ofc).
Both the Android and iOS platform has devices that does support games with smooth graphics(as you call it).
And I find that the App store and Android Market is better than the WinMo market.
But that might just be me.
Both Android and WinMo got devices with harware keyboard. Witch is something the iOS does not have. I did not like to use my iPhone with wet fingers, same goes for most touch screens that i've used. However, that is not that big of an issue with a hardware keyboard.
You can also have widgets in android(You can also do this in WinMo if you download the right app for it. But I can't remember the name) I.e you can place a weather forecast on your desktop/lockscreen. On iOS however, you will have to click the apps icon, wait for the loading and then refresh to see the weather.
Same goes for the calendar.. In android I can see my appointments straight on the home screen.. However on the iOS I have to enter the Calendar app.
All in all, here is the way I would put my prefferences.
1. Android(A quite open platform. With the posibillity of adding widgets etc.)
2. WinMo 6.5+
3. iOS(I would really like to see some widgets.. atleast in the lock screen..)
I agree with ukon .
winmo is older, hence not as graphicly 'complete' if you'd like.
But it does not preform any slower than the iphone os doing the same tasks...
Winmo lets you to do anything you like, within reason... Everything mentioned above by another poster. Its not a restricted OS. Unlike the iphone os.
Android is in my opinion a lovely mix of the two.
flawless GUI, and its not restrictive.
I want a phone where I have total control: WM & Android.
NOT a phone that totally controls me: iOS
Nuff said.
phatmanxxl said:
I want a phone where I have total control: WM & Android.
NOT a phone that totally controls me: iOS
Nuff said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said!
ov2rey said:
what windows mobile can do that iphone cannot..
7th windows mobile more app.
sorry too many to add.. lazy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where are they hiding all those apps?
pkoper said:
Where are they hiding all those apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On this little ol' think called t'interweb
Try Handango, MS Marketplace, XDA, google.
See, unlike Apple, MS don't dictate who can create and sell apps for their OS, and WM has a huge headstart on Apple.
It's not better, it just has a better marketing
jge93 said:
It's not better, it just has a better marketing
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Click to collapse
Exactly.
In addition to all of the above, Steve Jobs has figured out that most people don't need complicated stuff, it's the "stupid simple and shiny interface" ratio to. "advanced fuctions". I really don't know if that's really good or bad and I guess to each his own. Sad tho that these different capabilities haven't so far put together. Maybe Android will accomplish that one day.
Oh, and the way iPhone has implemented video call is utterly rediculous. Or have they changed that restriction policy later or did someone hack it open?
hugomenezes said:
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
I have HTC Touch HD and i test a lot of cooked roms and an official roms but it still slowly.
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to ignore the other posts in this topic. It seems too many are clouded by iOS hatred (I mean, "WinMo has more apps than iOS"? Really?).
As far as I know, there are a lot of factors that goes into why WinMo is not as 'smooth'/efficient as iOS. Among these factors are lack of proper GPU drivers (due to Qualcomm's licensing issues), lack of proper optimization due to multiple phone spec setup (iPhone hardware tends to be static and fully supported by Apple itself), and, perhaps most notably, Windows Mobile is a very old OS. It doesn't support a lot of modern tech in ARM CPUs.
The last reason is probably why Microsoft is finally deciding to drop Windows Mobile and develop Windows Phone.
But to get to the point, Apple doesn't have any of the issues above. iOS is modern, available on static hardware configurations, and, of course, Apple's micromanagement of its OS/app market is probably doing a lot to keep things efficient. Of course, this approach has its drawbacks too (as people here would probably love to tell), but the advantage is also obvious for the world to see.
answer the question topics. I think it smoother graphics on the iphone because the resolution is only 320x240 qvga while your touch hd is WVGA 480x800.
and it is certainly lighter os on iphone because it only displays a static icon in the menu. if you like static icons ,turn off htc sense and use titanium. or use shell menu such as spb. it'll fly
and for graphics in applications such as games. buy games from EA and Gameloft and i guarantee they run smoother than the iphone. for example Ferrari GT from gameloft. play using accelerometer on for both, you'll see which phone steer car easily
madnish30 said:
WARNING: I WANT NO FLAMING ON THIS THREAD, ONLY DISCUSSION AND HEALTHY DISCUSSION. ANY FLAMING THE THREAD WILL BE CLOSED AND ACTION WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST THE MEMBERS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another quick reminder.
Such thread are usually shut, but i'm leting this be because so far it seems clean and productive, please don't turn it ugly.
Thanks
madnish30.
Let me preface this by saying I already suggested this idea in the DEV POOL sticky of software development. Unfortunately that thread receives very little attention and my question would be better placed here.
Anyways: Currently WP7 has two emulators (at least that I know of) and they are for the NES and classic Gameboy. Unfortunately, we are missing some really great ones like Gameboy Advance (I still have all my Pokemon games from it), SNES, and N64. You may not be aware, but the Zune HD actually had a partially working Gameboy Advance emulator. The Zune HD possess far lower specs then new WP7 devices, even the first generation devices. The original iPhone 3GS can also emulate Gameboy Advance games and its specs are also a lot lower then current WP7 devices.
I'm curious as to why this hasn't been worked on (at least talked about). I understand that code could be a problem, but the Zune HD I'm sure had similar problems on a far lesser known platform with even less developers and still had some form of Gameboy Advance emulator. Also, native code of some kind is achievable now, correct?
Anyways, I'm just curious if anyone else would like to see this/know if something is in the works. If it is of any help, here is the link to the Zune HD Gameboy Advance emualtor; they even have the source code listed: http://code.google.com/p/visual-boy-zune/
Currently there are several issues with emulation on WP7.
1) The lack of hardware access (XNA)
2) Managed languages and the inability to remove excessive runtime safety checks (like bounds checking) makes it very hard to have efficient rendering and sound generation.
3) The lack of native code access and not allowing for unsafe code in managed languages
While technically you can run native code through COM, it would be a huge amount of work porting an existing emulator over that way and it would be limited to fully unlocked devices.
I do know a few people that has been toying with SNES or even GBA emulation for WP7, but in the end they've given up, because of the inability to have it running at any reasonable speed. Which is very understandable considering how slow it is to run an interpreted emulator inside an VM when u have no way remove safety checks or compile code on the fly.
I honestly don't see any of these things changing for WP7, considering how little to none extra API access that we've been given since the Mango SDK.
But looking at Windows 8 and the Metro style API's, Microsoft would be complete idiots to not bring the same set of languages (native/managed) c++/c# (with unsafe code!)/js to WP8 and native access to directx etc. So none of the WP7 issues would be present.
N64/PSX...that would require a whole set of even lower level hardware access.
So in short; The lack of native or unsafe code access is why u don't have a gba/snes emulator on wp7
Nudua said:
Currently there are several issues with emulation on WP7.
1) The lack of hardware access (XNA)
2) Managed languages and the inability to remove excessive runtime safety checks (like bounds checking) makes it very hard to have efficient rendering and sound generation.
3) The lack of native code access and not allowing for unsafe code in managed languages
While technically you can run native code through COM, it would be a huge amount of work porting an existing emulator over that way and it would be limited to fully unlocked devices.
I do know a few people that has been toying with SNES or even GBA emulation for WP7, but in the end they've given up, because of the inability to have it running at any reasonable speed. Which is very understandable considering how slow it is to run an interpreted emulator inside an VM when u have no way remove safety checks or compile code on the fly.
I honestly don't see any of these things changing for WP7, considering how little to none extra API access that we've been given since the Mango SDK.
But looking at Windows 8 and the Metro style API's, Microsoft would be complete idiots to not bring the same set of languages (native/managed) c++/c# (with unsafe code!)/js to WP8 and native access to directx etc. So none of the WP7 issues would be present.
N64/PSX...that would require a whole set of even lower level hardware access.
So in short; The lack of native or unsafe code access is why u don't have a gba/snes emulator on wp7
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Well that is mighty unfortunate. I'm assuming the current emulators work because they don't need much power to run? Also is it XNA that allowed for the Zune HD to emulate the Gameboy Advance?
I thank you for your time in answering my question, hopefully Windows 8 will change this current situation.
ErikWithNoC said:
Well that is mighty unfortunate. I'm assuming the current emulators work because they don't need much power to run? Also is it XNA that allowed for the Zune HD to emulate the Gameboy Advance?
I thank you for your time in answering my question, hopefully Windows 8 will change this current situation.
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I don't know much about the Zune HD, but from looking at the GBA project, it's using native code (OpenZDK?) and not XNA.
Current emulators work because most run at 20/30fps and the emulation of 8bit consoles is less demanding. Also most emulators are written in native languages, making it much harder to port over to WP7.
If WP8 is anything like W8 and Microsoft continues to allow emulators, I'm sure we'll see a lot of emulators for WP8.
The ZuneHD was never hacked at all. If I remember correctly (and I was big on the Zune scene), the Zune devices had far superior security software that was never cracked. Not saying it wouldn't have been possible if more people cared about development for the Zune (it had nowhere near as much following as iPhone and iPod).
Microsoft never gave out a full SDK for the Zune, only access to limited functions in XDA. There wasn't even support for 3D games...
But Zune fanatics were able to find a more "back door" method to hacking the Zune. They created OpenZDK, which allowed for more access to what the Zune can really do. It was almost like a partial hack (which you'd be used to if you're in the PSP hacking scene).
Through OpenZDK, you were able to develop software that better used the Zune's potential (that MS never tapped into). Developers could make 3D games, and even make an emulator. Now my ZuneHD crapped out on me before I could try the GBA emulator, but I used the crap out of it when it was just GB/GBC. I still prefer it over anything I've used on iOS and Android. The only downfalls were that you had to save the normal way, no fast forward, and no sound.
If Microsoft had given more freedom for developers in XNA, then they would have used that to make VBZ and it'd probably be easier to port to Windows Phone.
Microsoft just really messed up with the Zune.
whats the best open source GBA emulator? it would be interesting to use NFC and the Local Wireless to emulate Link functionality. I tried to port a GBA emulator to WP7 XNA but it failed, now with native code, i want to try it in metro.
No$GBA, but I'm not sure
Please try it to make a gba emulator for windowsphone
MaryJane420 said:
No$GBA, but I'm not sure
Please try it to make a gba emulator for windowsphone
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I'm going to make one for windows 8 metro, then I can attempt to port it over.