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I am seeing more and more dis-respectful replies to newbies then ever before, and it is getting old, all this does is run off potential new comers to this site who might be the next great cooker and spreads a not so good rep about this site
at the same time I see some mods have be respectful to others in there sigs. I think this should become policy across the forum period and those that are rude and disrespectful in their reply should get a vacation to let them know this is not to be tolerated IMO
This site is about growth and interest in these toys of ours, not about ripping newbies who may ask a question that maybe have been asked many times over, so what, why not just post a link to the search and to the Wiki and say welcome to the forums , instead of bashing them? It would leave a better taste in the newbs mouths and they might become a contributor in the future.
Also think about this, just how many of you cookers have something in your sig asking for a cup of coffee ? or Donate to XDA or Donations graciously accepted. Well if a newbie is made to feel welcomed and comfortable here , They are more then likely going leave you a little something.
Me , If I notice a rom cooker being rude, they are not very likely going to get anything from me even if they had something great and useful.
I just replied to a newbie that asked a simple question, but not before someone posted a B.S. reply, I instead answered it with something useful and promoted the search engine at the same time
This did two things, first the newbies was made to feel welcomed and also if someone was to search the same question, they would find a reasonable answer.
BTW B.S. replies just screw up the search results forcing newbies just ask questions instead of finding answers.
Flame away if you want or become part of the solution .
i agree,
there are times that newbs do need help. some of those who i have pointed in the right direction have tried to search, but either search the wrong thing or don't know what they are looking for.
it does work two ways and some of the mods and senior members are to be commended for their help. ( i can think of about 10 folks who go out of their way to help as many as possible and never rip a newb)
those who are helped are more likely to help others.
I find it often takes longer to explain how to use the search facility properly to yield useable results than it takes to answer the specific question, but there is no excuse for rude replies, if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
Here is a good example of what I am talking about,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=403829
This reply by kspirit did nothing to help this user ,
No , nothing like that runs on the tilt..
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.
its these kind of responses that need to be curtailed.
Even though a mod did respond , he/she did nothing regarding the above users response. All this does is give the impression that this behavior is condoned .
I am not knocking the Moderator (I do find him to be very helpful) but they do have a huge influence on how others act on this site, and by not informing this above user that these types of replies are not helpful or uncalled for) they are giving the impression that it is okay.
Mods & Admin , what do you all think ? Am I off track here ?
Just wanted to add this:
If the mods were to take the time to edit the titles like this one " New AT&T Tilt Phone - Help" to something like this...Will software like HTC Home, Mobile Shell, Pocket Informant work on both the tilt & 8525?. or something along those lines.....
This would help with search engine results, Yea its abit more work for the mods to do this but it will help greatly in producing more viable search results .
Just a thought...
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
AthenaLod said:
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
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Ahh do you search much ? this user did not ask the same question twice....
and there is no excuse for being rude, and so what if they had ? a simple link to the Wiki would be a very easy way to deal with it, and a welcome to the forum would get much better results.
why would I want to donate or promote this site in any form if all I got is ripped on ? hmmm
Like Mike has posted,
if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
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This would yield better results .
by "told" i meant that for example in the kaiser forum, the only sticky there is titled "**BEFORE YOU POST START HERE**" and it says "Read and search before posting. Reply to an existing thread before creating a new thread. Redundant threads will be closed." so, if somebody decides that he/she wants to just ignore this, he/she brought it on themselves. i don't do bad language, or encourage it, but, sometimes some ppl can be really so lazy to even do a search
Just my personal opinion....
I've only been here for a few months and I have to say, I've seen more useless threads then ever before! Now, don't get me wrong, I love to help, and do all the time, but at some point, you see a junior on their first post asking something like, "How do I uninstall an app?", or "How do I turn the phone off?" So at some point of seeing these threads, someone will be a bit frustrated and point them to the search and wiki fetaures located on the top bar instead of a full answer. I fully understand your point, but like I said, these members who join just for a simple answer then after 10 minutes ask why nobody is helping can aggrivate all of us users who come here for new information on a daily basis. Especially when they start a thread, get an answer, and never return.
Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
Now in this post, this user was looking for a specific dialer, and of course it's impoosible to search for an image, but I did help. Actually at first, I was a bit mad at the fact they posted the image, but didn't ask in the thread they got the photo from, then realized the image wasn't from here. But after I saw that, I tried to give some info on it, but I can't spend time looking for something they want, but I can help, so I did.
I think I'm done typing , but I'll say this, when I first joined, actually being my first forum, I had a bunch of questions, I didn't feel a need to post a thread for one simple question. I actually spent about a week after work searching and going through a bunch of pages looking for info, and I found a lot!
Also, a suggestion, I asked this in the SPAM thread, how about putting a block on junior users poting new threads? It would prevent SPAM and these simple question threads.
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
Just wanted to say that F2504x4 put the problem very articulately and I totally agree with him. Pointing out a mistake (such as not using the search facility) need not be done in a rude and dismissive way.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
TheChampJT said:
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
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They should be taking a interest in this.....if they are becoming numb to it , then they need to take a hard look at why they are a moderator, Sorry if this sounds harsh . Moderators are the leaders that others look to for guidance, they help set the tone of the community.
This is a great site, with a lot of great talent , but it will not take long before it becomes over shadowed with a darker side.
Continued growth is key to any forum and community , and running off new comers with not help with that.
Fact is you will always have newbs ignoring stickies and search engines , nothing will ever change that.
All this site can do is maintain a positive atmosphere , and continuing education to those that join .
So i ask again , what say you Admin and mods ?
Thank you pedmond for this , very well put.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
Yesterday 07:49 PM
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F2504x4 said:
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
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Don't really think the issue is with Mods and Admin. I do see a lot of evidence of them cleaning up threads if they're getting out of hand and sorting out users that are really getting obnoxious. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members. And certain new members seem to think the world is their private helpdesk and that the purpose of these forums is to instantly deal with their every need. Well in any large group you'll always get those that are unpleasant to deal with - that's life. There are just as many, maybe more, who're a real pleasure to deal with and try their best to help. I think if new members read the forum rules and were prepared to lurk a bit before posting, then they'd quickly get an idea of what types of questions to ask and how to get help.
So while I personally totally agree with your views on decent behaviour etc I don't think its an issue to get wound up about. If you can filter out some of the fluff, this site is still the best resource for our phones by far.
(But I've only got about 80 posts, so maybe I'll change my mind when I hit 100! )
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2360488&posted=1#post2360488
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
l3v5y said:
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
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Wow what a way to start off a reply Ban every user ?
I think you should re read what has been stated, I did not hint or say ban anyone..but if that is what it takes to effect a change then maybe it should be considered but it should be directed at those that are creating a un-friendly and less then helpful place . IMO
First off I have no problem with someone being told to search, its how they are being told and some of the un-called for comments that are becoming more and more common and is the real problem, go read the example I posted earlier.
what do you consider a worthy response in this thread ? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
As to the stupid questions , Idiots and respect, ahhh I thinks its way past beer thirty .
swanlm said:
. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members.
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while I agree with a lot of what you said, In the example I gave , its even the low post count members that are posting these less then helpful responses, so that is telling me that this a is trend that is spreading and the bad thing is that a mod even replied in the thread, and did nothing about the response given, they only quoted part of my reply about searching.... ( I am still wondering why...)
Btw I only started this thread after a lot of reading and seeing this trend become more common place.
It's not about being against Noobies...
Too many come here from other sites for the wrong reason. Many of the questions that get jumped, closed & merged really should have been asked at the AT&T or other carrier support forums.
I'll quote this post of mine:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
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Good post and very worthwhile reading kyphur,
and I understand clearly why it was written.
Just be aware of this trend and its long term results...
Btw I have walked in Mod shoes , and understand the inner workings of forums, and it is no easy task managing a community.
Thanks for posting that.
whats some good programs to install?
Um well....... what do you want to do? Are you going to flash a new ROM? What are you using the phone for? These are the questions I have for you. Without knowing that we can't tell you what to look for.
sigh.. just go to the site in my sig, tailored just for you.
And before you post on xda again please read the rules and guidelines first.
Click my sig, i got hundreds of cabs.
I know the OP asked when he could have searched...
But i am in the same boat and was also wondering what everyone is using. His question (and the replies with apps in the sigs) is going to make my life better too
So thanks OP for asking a disliked but useful question....
Dillsnik said:
asking a disliked but useful question....
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for the 10^10000000000th time.
well, i look at it this way...it doesn't hurt anyone here if someone ASKS....there is no gun to your head to answer it. only chime in if you feel like it. The OP's title is very explanatory of what he was asking so no one should have opened the thread unless they either wanted to reply or were curious of the responses given (like me). To be fair, i have never quite understood the strictness imposed which seems to cause so much frustration in (many) forums.
Signal to noise ratio, man. The fewer redundant threads, the fewer months it takes someone to get the same knowledge and tools from xda forums for their phone.
I had no problem answering his question (hell I spent countless hours designing a website to accommodate people in his shoes) and I'm sorry if I came off as bitter but the rules make sense to the people who made the rules and to me and especially to those reading the forums on their phones with a browser or RSS.
Think of Slashdot. There by default you wouldn't see things like this as they would get moderated below the default threshold. If you're so inclined, you can modify the threshold up or down or order the posts in various directions. That makes Slashdot a lot better than it used to be before they coded that. But wouldn't it be nice if XDA could continue to get away without needing the forum equivalent of that kind of system if people would just post properly and when newcomers do not that they are advised to check the rules (and, in this case, their questions get answered too)?
And yes, because of this thread a bunch of people are getting cabs they didn't have from various sigs and now that this is turning into a debate a lot more people will get cabs. But would you not agree now that we are both right? Or do you truly not mind the boards being flooded with the same questions the wiki and searching satisfies? Not to mention spam and people trying to sell their phones. Signal to noise ratio.
Doug
Dillsnik said:
well, i look at it this way...it doesn't hurt anyone here if someone ASKS....there is no gun to your head to answer it. only chime in if you feel like it. The OP's title is very explanatory of what he was asking so no one should have opened the thread unless they either wanted to reply or were curious of the responses given (like me). To be fair, i have never quite understood the strictness imposed which seems to cause so much frustration in (many) forums.
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I think for some it's just a matter of frustration. I've been guilty of it myself, and got my hand slapped by the mods in Q&A for an inappropriate flame. Speaking for myself, I first joined a little over a year ago and read everything available. This allowed me to avoid asking questions that had already been answered. I'd hazard to guess that the "ask first and search later" approach is viewed by some as intellectually lazy. I can also see the other side that you point out. This site can be very intimidating and some people may just not know what to look for -- especially if they're new to WinMo. I've now adopted a no-flame approach (don't want to get slapped again). I'm certainly no expert, but I occasionally can provide an answer or suggestion, even if it's nothing other than providing a link to the appropriate thread. I figure it's the least I can do for all the great help I've received here.
d0ugie said:
Signal to noise ratio, man.
Doug
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Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
Phaze13 said:
Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
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Hey thanks for backing me up. Heh, the Dude.
Glad you got good use out of the site! And guess what, you can get even more out of it because I got your default rings (HTC's and MS's) in the first paragraph of section 9, notifications.
Doug
@D0ugie
First off, i didn't think your reply was too negative. You just pointed out that people should search first and ask later, which i agree with. I think in my mind it's the level of grey that exists with the "search first" motto that is debatable. I have spent a LOT of time in some instances searching for a needle in a haystack, sometimes in fear of knowing that if i pose a new thread for a quick answer i might get flamed for it. And there are times when i asked before i probably should have (had one of those the other day) and felt like an idiot for it. And then there are the times where i was looking for something but maybe didn't even know it, and had someone else ask it and be like, wow that is exactly what i wanted to know. And then there are still the times where i asked a Q and wasn't sure if it was a good question and whether or not i'd even get a reply, and had a huge discussion evolve because of it and lots of people glad i did ask.
Obviously, the repeat of the same question over and over can make it harder to find the BEST answers, but sometimes i will search and not find that right thread and then someone points me to it and i am like, that just saved me SO much unnecessary searching, THANK YOU.
The bottom line though is i love this community and, in general, everyone here is amazing and so helpful and giving. I feel lucky to be a part of it and wish i was a better developer and had more to contribute.
Why So Serious?
meth0dGSX said:
Why So Serious?
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@you lol. Perfect time to add that
@OP You could search the Raphael software/Diamond Themes, Applications, and Software/Developement & Hacking which are sections specially made for app posting.
EDITED, sorry if I offended anyone.
Phaze13 said:
Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
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Funny i was looking for the Dude trying to get a little Time of from XDA and accidentally used the Google XDA search. This was the only result.
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825531964825142534%3Acqr2sjirilw&q=the+big+lebowski&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I didn't know that until i accidentally searched for it.
Well for those in the Dark here's the Short Version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqtgfjkB6Pg
Please delete me when the fun's gotten out of it, but at least XDA should get back two search results from now on, on The Big Lebowksi
In two weeks:
http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&...esult&cd=1&q=Noonski+the+big+lebowski&spell=1
Should give you at least one result on finding out my true identity.
A few posts deleted, that is already more then any of us would have wanted on a Forum meant to harbour information.
Don't Flame a man trying to show you the light of XDA, it attracts to much attention of Moderators even when they are trying not to.
If you go to my 4shared, you can find pretty much any application that will do whatever you want on your WinMo based phone.
It seems that too many devs are leaving us due to repeated noobs question and generally flooded threads.
I thought to myself why not use an SGS 4G facebook page as a gate for all QA & General simple questions and leave development issues and logs for the xda forum? This way people will have the community they want and devs will get the order and work environment they want.
Please let me know what you think before it will become another one of those threads and be closed by moderator.
Thanks.
Sent from me
In theory it sounds great. However people will not post there for reason they dont post in proper sections here.
The real issue is this, the community is divided. I left the Optimus V because Virgins coverage sucks for me. I really wish I could have kept the phone and plan and the main reason is the community. At AC I swear the people there help everybody. Even if it is a question already asked. Somebody will pipe up and offer a link.
Im guilty as charged in attacking a n00b for being stupid. However witht eh cost of the Optimus V and the extremely cheap plan many people was buying the phone to tether and have cheap internet. And Most of those people were clueless as to what the hell they were doing. In most cases a friend told them about the phone and plan and how easy it was to root and start tethering. As a end user you dont want those people creating issues for your service. So if your rude and refuse to help they go away.
But right now I can point you to at the minimum of five threads where the community is helping the noobs and letting the devs do their thing. If a dev needs to address something they do. Otherwise the community answers questions. The biggest reason for this is changelogs, instructions, and all that stuff is never deleted just updated. Even if the rom has evolved to a new level. The old info is still posted so people can find out what changed in the various releases. Plus even after somebody asks the same question ten others have asked patience is exhibited and answers are given.
The community here needs to stop worrying with telling people to search and start offering help. Most people come here and ask because they dont know how. And quite honestly dont feel like reading thread after thread after thread of rules and guidelines.They are looking to get a answer for the problem at hand. Most of them will go away if pointed in the right direction. However when people start piling on flaming them for not searching properly it just creates more spam in the thread and drives them away. Then you have people that talk major **** about how xda is a bunch of arrogant f*cktards.
Plenty of people do help in my observations. Im new and signed up only to help people. Answered a 'noob' question before making this post, amd I was nice about it too.
Fortunately, most 'noob' questions have already been answered somewhere on here. I know this because every question I have ever had has been answered by searching for it, not by posting. Not by derailing dev threads either.
The dev threads are filled with simple questions with simple, searchable answers. I shake my head when I see the same question asked posts apart surrounding the answer in a non-Q&A forum. And then I see that person who is asking get mad, or cry 'search nazi!' because someone says to search for it. Give me a break.
If the answer to a simple and eady to answer question is out there and can be found by a search, and someone asks the question anyways after being told that is what they should do in yhe futurethat is laziness, not ignorance. And getting on their case is not arrogance, some of those asking questions have high enough post counts here, they should of learned how to make their own way by now.
I should also add that I have no programming experience, and have only been using a smartphone for 3 months. Yet I have never had to ask a question about how to install a rom or fix a brick. Because I searched for the answer, and everyone else should too.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
eollie said:
The community here needs to stop worrying with telling people to search and start offering help. Most people come here and ask because they dont know how. And quite honestly dont feel like reading thread after thread after thread of rules and guidelines.
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How do you think the "experts" learned? I only posted 3 threads in my first 3 months here at XDA. Do you know why that is? I searched and didn't find an answer to my questions and I decided to make threads. Turns out people didn't know the answers to those either. Go figure. Everything else that I wondered about I found a thread or guide for. It's really not that hard.
If you're not willing to do some reading to be able to understand how to follow a guide you shouldn't be flashing anything to your phone.
Holocene said:
Fortunately, most 'noob' questions have already been answered somewhere on here. I know this because every question I have ever had has been answered by searching for it, not by posting. Not by derailing dev threads either.
The dev threads are filled with simple questions with simple, searchable answers. I shake my head when I see the same question asked posts apart surrounding the answer in a non-Q&A forum. And then I see that person who is asking get mad, or cry 'search nazi!' because someone says to search for it. Give me a break.
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I agree people should use the search function. Have you ever thought they did search and ended up being directed here. I have seen stuff posted and a day later comeback searched the thread because it had grown five to six pages since I seen the post and dont know where the information is. Only to not be able to find the post in question. Yesterday I searched for something I had seen posted the search results..stated they were updated 10 minutes before I had searched. How is that even possible?
FBis251 said:
How do you think the "experts" learned? I only posted 3 threads in my first 3 months here at XDA. Do you know why that is? I searched and didn't find an answer to my questions and I decided to make threads. Turns out people didn't know the answers to those either. Go figure. Everything else that I wondered about I found a thread or guide for. It's really not that hard.
If you're not willing to do some reading to be able to understand how to follow a guide you shouldn't be flashing anything to your phone.
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Im not saying every single question should be answered with a simple heres the answer next time search response. But dont expect every person to read through every guide in fifteen threads to figure out where a wallpaper is located.
Not every person that comes here for answers is a dev or wants to be a dev.
@ eollie: I have a great idea... quit talking about it and writing these long unnecessary posts and start helping. Lead by example! Maybe others will follow suit since you seem to think people don't help others on here. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with these LONG posts?
eollie said:
I agree people should use the search function. Have you ever thought they did search and ended up being directed here. I have seen stuff posted and a day later comeback searched the thread because it had grown five to six pages since I seen the post and dont know where the information is. Only to not be able to find the post in question.
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I generally bookmark posts that contain information relevant to my interests that I may not be able to commit to memory at the time. Yes, some get changed but most are because the information is wrong or outdated. Another post nearby most likely holds updated info.
eollie said:
Im not saying every single question should be answered with a simple heres the answer next time search response. But dont expect every person to read through every guide in fifteen threads to figure out where a wallpaper is located.
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I just typed "where in an android rom is the default wallpaper located?" into Google. The first link is to an XDA post titled "Where is a Rom's default wallpaper stored?". The answer to that question is on the first page of the thread. It even has instructions on how to extract it.
Try it yourself. Searching works.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Holocene said:
I just typed "where in an android rom is the default wallpaper located?" into Google. The first link is to an XDA post titled "Where is a Rom's default wallpaper stored?". The answer to that question is on the first page of the thread. It even has instructions on how to extract it.
Try it yourself. Searching works.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
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I spent three hours tearing apart a rom to find a wallpaper used on the lockscreen. Im not a dev nor am I a themer but even doing a search for where lockscreen wallpaper is located kept directing me to widgetlocker and those types of apps. A week ago I would have just posted here in hopes somebody would point me in the proper direction. Instead I just sat in front of my computer for three hours because I didnt want to deal with the responses.
Your smartass response...well its not so smart.
@lumin30 dude seriously if you dont like my posts ignore them. Im sorry the community here is absolutely horrendous in helping people. Prime example is the post I have quoted above. Instead of taking what I was saying and using it logically he took it literally. I wasnt asking where I was using a simple example of what I have seen here. Then he even attempted to insult me with his last comment.
Im not here to make friends or enemies. Im here lookig for ways to better my android experience. When that experience is hampered because some tool wants to be a internet badass it pisses me off. Especially when in the process of berating somebody they prove how ignorant they really are. Most people that post here are human beings once in a while you will get a spam bot but 99% of the time you are dealing with a human. Some are old enough to be your grandparents others your teenage brother/sister.
POST REMOVED for sake of preventing a four paragraph response!
wow.....
i really could say something towards this thread for you guys to feed on, but i'll just shut my mouth and just say one more word.
wow.....
now what's the title of this thread again? sorry, but reading all this here made me forget. and sorry for yet another 4 paragraph response.
sent from within pure darkness
eollie made some ramblings against Raver in the Q&A section too.
eollie - I am sorry! Please do not attack me with four paragraphs for saying that.
MY RESPONSE: OK
lumin30 said:
eollie made some ramblings against Raver in the Q&A section too.
eollie - I am sorry! Please do not attack me with four paragraphs for saying that.
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And you just cant let it go can you? I apologized to him and he has accepted it. See adults work things out and accept mistakes and apologies. I guess a child like you just wants to keep the friction and tension high so you appear to be superior. Regarding my not following my own advise in ignoring people..I find your posts in response to me very amusing. You just can help yourself and not respond. Your like a woman arguing to get the last word in. You just cant help it. I would say Im look forward to your response but honestly its not fun anymore you are too predictable.
lumin will post within the next ten minutes rebuting me.
Your name calling, swearing, and the chauvanistic and defamatory comments you just made speak on your behalf. Noone on this board is picking on anyone as much as you are. Good luck getting any help or making friends with that attitude. Peace out dude.
@mods Im done with this, sorry about this being new and all. I couldn't continue watching his thread derailing and user bashing without saying anything.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Holocene said:
Noone on this board is picking on anyone as much as you are. Good luck getting any help or making friends with that attitude. Peace out dude.
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Im glad you feel that way. I have seen it first hand tho. You even did it in your initial post to me. Tried to insult me via your last comment. Good god its like people cant see past their own nose. Im guilty as charged in smashing noobs with a bat. But Ive never claimed to not do it. I just think sometimes it is not necessary.
Holocene said:
@mods Im done with this, sorry about this being new and all. I couldn't continue watching his thread derailing and user bashing without saying anything.
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High road exit was before you posted to me initially. Getting back now will be a long process or winding mountainous roads. Dont forget to enjoy the view along the way tho. There is some awesome put out points to take pictures.
as much as i'd hate to say this, but i see this thread getting deleted before the weekend.
itzik2sh said:
It seems that too many devs are leaving us due to repeated noobs question and generally flooded threads.
I thought to myself why not use an SGS 4G facebook page as a gate for all QA & General simple questions and leave development issues and logs for the xda forum? This way people will have the community they want and devs will get the order and work environment they want.
Please let me know what you think before it will become another one of those threads and be closed by moderator.
Thanks.
Sent from me
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now to get back on topic. i personally think it might be a good idea, but unfortunately i don't see it working in this community. we're trying with our wiki page, but it seems that people just want to be spoon fed for this device. trust me, i've checked the mytouch 3g slide forums (my fiance's device) and the galaxy tab 10.1 forums (my next device) and have yet to see what goes on here on those forums. seems to me MOST people with this device are nothing but spoiled little teenagers that are spoon fed all the time. it's no wonder the devs are dropping like flies. if i was a dev, i would leave also. sorry for ranting on your thread itz, but felt this was the best place to put in my 2 cents worth.
sent from within pure darkness
droidmyst said:
now to get back on topic. i personally think it might be a good idea, but unfortunately i don't see it working in this community. we're trying with our wiki page, but it seems that people just want to be spoon fed for this device.
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I mentioned it before but a lot of people ignore wikis because they are typically out of date. In the beginning people will update them regularly and then just stop. However after some time looking around I can say the SGS4G wiki is just the opposite. Tons of info and for the most part easy to navigate. Which brings up another problem with wikis. The ability to navigate it easily and endless loops of redirects. Again the SGS4G doesnt appear to suffer from that.
Maybe instead of the sticky posts with thread links we could get a single thread with wiki links. That way info is updated and people are spending an hour navigating through search results within one thread. In my mind this makes sense just putting it in print is eluding me.
Idk about the Facebook page. Seems a little too personal lol, and not everyone uses it.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
vgcraze said:
Idk about the Facebook page. Seems a little too personal lol, and not everyone uses it.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
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The fact it is personal and exposes peoples real identity is what makes it awesome. Most of the people here wouldnt act the way they did if they were made to use real name and such. Being anonymous has so many advantages and disadvantages.
Can I just point out that I started a thread with a guide to flashing and is intended to help the devs buffer the questions to that thread
Sent from my Kindle Fire using the XDA premium app
itzik2sh said:
It seems that too many devs are leaving us due to repeated noobs question and generally flooded threads.
I thought to myself why not use an SGS 4G facebook page as a gate for all QA & General simple questions and leave development issues and logs for the xda forum?
Sent from me
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back on the actual topic, since it has once again been derailed by the self-appointed thread police....
Devs are not leaving us only for the reasons you stated. Some of that may be part of it, but it's not the sum total...
As for Facebook page... feel free to create one, and I wish you the best of luck.. as one of those 'weird' people who doesn't use Facebook, i won't be coming to visit it...
http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/0...e-a-way-to-unlock-to-those-who-wish-to-do-so/
The last comment seems to suggest Moto could be following in HTC's footsteps. Sorry if I posted in the wrong section. Just seems like the best news we have gotten in regards to our atrix 2
Sent from my cm_tenderloin
Seems like you are blind.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1764700
When will people learn to use forums.
When will people stop being pricks and show some common respect?
The guy was trying to be helpful.
*waits for the "I'm tired of noobs who don't search, read rules, and so on responses and all the others.*
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
DarrellRaines said:
When will people stop being pricks and show some common respect?
The guy was trying to be helpful.
*waits for the "I'm tired of noobs who don't search, read rules, and so on responses and all the others.*
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
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He posted this in the wrong forum. How does this even have anything to do Development on the Atrix 2?
The answer, it doesn't.
I know that myself and the other devs in here, are so tired of people who don't follow the rules and make idiot posts, and you go and stick up for another one of these dumb posts.... you can go join him in the banned category.
Please learn how to search there are several posts in the last 24 hours about this.
jimbridgman said:
He posted this in the wrong forum. How does this even have anything to do Development on the Atrix 2?
The answer, it doesn't.
I know that myself and the other devs in here, are so tired of people who don't follow the rules and make idiot posts, and you go and stick up for another one of these dumb posts.... you can go join him in the banned category.
Please learn how to search there are several posts in the last 24 hours about this.
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Look, I am Kind of in the middle here. It does piss me off big time when people do this, but I understand. Do you remember the **** storm that came when we had the first ICS leak? there were like 50 posts ad 100s in one topic repeating things.
My point is that sometimes people do just get excited and forget to read. I do get mad, but I have some forgiveness if they admit their wrongness and delete it.
I know XDA is about the developers, but none of us started that way. Most of us learned from this forum, we started as n00bs. I remember the first time I softbricked my phone, and freaked out. I spent hours researching how to get it back. Now I could do it in my sleep (and sort of have).
I certainly am not at your level yet, but I do know what I am doing a lot more than I did 709 posts and 225 thanks ago. I originally thought to myself "how am I ever going to get 10 posts" when I was trying to post in the dev section.
Let people know when they are being dumb, but have some forgiveness as long as they realize it and fix it.
Sorry for posting this, I usually just check the Development section. I thought it was noteworthy, would be happy to delete this to clean up the Development section if someone can tell me how. I have been a XDA member for a long time but I rarely post, so I am not sure how to delete the thread if it is even possible. Hopefully this does mean good news for us Atrix 2 owners if Motorola decides to start unlocking program like HTC.
lkrasner said:
Look, I am Kind of in the middle here. It does piss me off big time when people do this, but I understand. Do you remember the **** storm that came when we had the first ICS leak? there were like 50 posts ad 100s in one topic repeating things.
My point is that sometimes people do just get excited and forget to read. I do get mad, but I have some forgiveness if they admit their wrongness and delete it.
I know XDA is about the developers, but none of us started that way. Most of us learned from this forum, we started as n00bs. I remember the first time I softbricked my phone, and freaked out. I spent hours researching how to get it back. Now I could do it in my sleep (and sort of have).
I certainly am not at your level yet, but I do know what I am doing a lot more than I did 709 posts and 225 thanks ago. I originally thought to myself "how am I ever going to get 10 posts" when I was trying to post in the dev section.
Let people know when they are being dumb, but have some forgiveness as long as they realize it and fix it.
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I totally agree. It is not the OP that I am getting on here, it is DarrellRaines... he is not a noob, obviously from is post count, so he should know the rules better.
lkrasner said:
Look, I am Kind of in the middle here. It does piss me off big time when people do this, but I understand. Do you remember the **** storm that came when we had the first ICS leak? there were like 50 posts ad 100s in one topic repeating things.
My point is that sometimes people do just get excited and forget to read. I do get mad, but I have some forgiveness if they admit their wrongness and delete it.
I know XDA is about the developers, but none of us started that way. Most of us learned from this forum, we started as n00bs. I remember the first time I softbricked my phone, and freaked out. I spent hours researching how to get it back. Now I could do it in my sleep (and sort of have).
I certainly am not at your level yet, but I do know what I am doing a lot more than I did 709 posts and 225 thanks ago. I originally thought to myself "how am I ever going to get 10 posts" when I was trying to post in the dev section.
Let people know when they are being dumb, but have some forgiveness as long as they realize it and fix it.
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Exactly! Why banish the noob who is trying to learn. Or just does not know. The whole point to this website is a community of devs, phone enthusiasts, and geeks.
I actually find it quite rude. Maybe if this post was fake. Or maybe it linked you to a rick roll ....whatever then I would laugh and be annoyed.
All I'm saying is that this person was trying to help. They posted something of value that some of us had no knowledge of.
Just my 2 cents.
Hit the thanks button if I helped or if I just made you laugh!!!
Actually an unlocked boot loader has a fair amount of something to do with the dev section but hey what do I know. I'm just the guy tired of people being dicks and pricks to people who screw up.
Thanks for not letting me down on the posts. Albeit I was expecting more...I don't know...maybe just more.
My point is instead of insulting the guy by calling him blind, he could have been decent and simply stated it had been posted and just say please check.
Its a common theme here. As soon as someone has their own rom they tend to become raging pricks and think they own the dev section. I could be just seeing things one way but its seems to be how things have been lately.
Now if the mods feel I should be banned for calling people out on being less than nice, oh well. There are worse things in the world than being kicked off a forum for 24 hours. I'd say being rude to a guy trying to be helpful would be one but u digress.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
A common theme in here is that people don't read before posting. We are cluttered with the same bootloader, cm9 and ics posts on a daily basis.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
tmease1 said:
A common theme in here is that people don't read before posting. We are cluttered with the same bootloader, cm9 and ics posts on a daily basis.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
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I won't argue that. Its annoying to say the least, but we shouldn't expect everyone to magically follow the rules and be rude to people. People can disagree and hate me all they want, but being rude and callous has never once helped a situation.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Man...even just the browser. Google. Bing that ****, whatever. Way easier anyway right? I'm sure that's how most of us started reading up on androids and rooting. Rules are given to you in the begining to read for a reason. I know most people don't read that cuz they think it's bull**** or whatever. But it is what it is...rules are rules. Just like laws...sure you can break em n get away with it here n there or minor infractions. But get the wrong Mod up in here n you can kiss your ass goodbye on a lil vacation. I know this from expeirence in other Forums. It's cool to give out news but do it in the right spot, or just reply to a thread already made. Posting a new thread should be a last resort if you cannot find your topic anywhere! Whatever, dude made a mistake. First reply could've been a little more humble about it and informative I guess. And OP should have searched before posting. Let's delete and move on...Don't make em walk the plank...we all family here right? Hahahaha.
Edit: and post #3 should know better too man. Come at dude in a better way. Like Jim said, That flaming stuff makes you look bad on the forums n no one will wanna help you out in the future. It's cool man, mistakes are made. We're not perfect.
DarrellRaines said:
Actually an unlocked boot loader has a fair amount of something to do with the dev section but hey what do I know. I'm just the guy tired of people being dicks and pricks to people who screw up.
Thanks for not letting me down on the posts. Albeit I was expecting more...I don't know...maybe just more.
My point is instead of insulting the guy by calling him blind, he could have been decent and simply stated it had been posted and just say please check.
Its a common theme here. As soon as someone has their own rom they tend to become raging pricks and think they own the dev section. I could be just seeing things one way but its seems to be how things have been lately.
Now if the mods feel I should be banned for calling people out on being less than nice, oh well. There are worse things in the world than being kicked off a forum for 24 hours. I'd say being rude to a guy trying to be helpful would be one but u digress.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
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In a way you right that an unlocked bootloader should have something to do with dev work, but again the rules state that ONLY your own work goes into the dev section. Not Q&A or posts that have some information about an unlocked bootloader, or even a ROM from another phone you want a dev to port. All of those things belong in the General section.
The reason I get frustrated is because I give my time and effort and a whole lot of my non-working time, freely I might add, to dev work here on XDA, so when there is little respect shown to the rules, that also shows little respect to the developers in here. I will have to say that your post was way worse than the OPs mistake, because you also showed little respect for the developers on here. and your last post showed even less respect for our devs in here.
And yes I will totally admit that the guy calling the OP blind was uncalled for, but again by doing what you have done shows little respect to our dev community and that makes me not want to read your posts or help you out if you get in a bind.
DarrellRaines said:
When will people stop being pricks and show some common respect?
The guy was trying to be helpful.
*waits for the "I'm tired of noobs who don't search, read rules, and so on responses and all the others.*
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
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I am with you. How about we simply say- "Hey thanks for posting this. It does belong elsewhere. Let me help you..."
iraqmilner said:
I am with you. How about we simply say- "Hey thanks for posting this. It does belong elsewhere. Let me help you..."
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Just PM the Guy and take it offline, no need to reply to a bad thread. These things blow up so fast it is not even funny.
jimbridgman said:
In a way you right that an unlocked bootloader should have something to do with dev work, but again the rules state that ONLY your own work goes into the dev section. Not Q&A or posts that have some information about an unlocked bootloader, or even a ROM from another phone you want a dev to port. All of those things belong in the General section.
The reason I get frustrated is because I give my time and effort and a whole lot of my non-working time, freely I might add, to dev work here on XDA, so when there is little respect shown to the rules, that also shows little respect to the developers in here. I will have to say that your post was way worse than the OPs mistake, because you also showed little respect for the developers on here. and your last post showed even less respect for our devs in here.
And yes I will totally admit that the guy calling the OP blind was uncalled for, but again by doing what you have done shows little respect to our dev community and that makes me not want to read your posts or help you out if you get in a bind.
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Jim for the record you are one of the few that I actually like. That said you are doing exactly what I was talking about. You don't need to pat yourself on the back or tell us who you are and what you do. We know already. We've all been here long enough to know your contributions.
Again people can hate me, but I have to speak my mind when I have something to say. Its who I am. You can call it as you see it just as I did with the first response.
If anyone feels I don't contribute, so be it. If they don't want to help me, so be it. I'm a big boy and can manage to figure it out. I'm still going to speak my mind. I wouldn't begrudge anyone for doing it as long as they dont insult people...well at least insult them with a little class.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
I might have been harsh but this forum is getting bloated everyday by dupe posts n irrelevant questions that have already been answered N number of times.And for a person posting n following bootloader news and checking atrix2 section for development it aint that hard to check other and new posts.How many times has everyone said here that please look before you repost please use search..Had OP done a little search on the topic he would have got the result.Forget about that even while making a new thread if your topic name is same XDA throws up search result, Still people go on making same topic threads again for what ? just to gain posts ? This is not the way someone behaves on forum.Forums have rules and they are meant to be followed.But people don't and look at our forum its so much bloated had everyone followed atleast one rule of searching or looking out there would have been loads of less threads.Also do people really think that posting a topic 1-2 days after its originally posted somewhere is really smart ? Come on this is not your group of friends its INTERNET and it includes people over the world and people who are much smarter than me you or anyone.Accept it.So just give a thought you dont even have to do mathematics,simple logic says that someone would have already posted it,could have search just for sake of that..But again who cares some break rules some take the sides of those who break rules.Can't help and the post like what i made comes out of frustration and losing patience.
PS : A video from XDA for all those who think rules are flexible and taken for granted and there is always a first time :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
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Archmag3 said:
I might have been harsh but this forum is getting bloated everyday by dupe posts n irrelevant questions that have already been answered N number of times.And for a person posting n following bootloader news and checking atrix2 section for development it aint that hard to check other and new posts.How many times has everyone said here that please look before you repost please use search..Had OP done a little search on the topic he would have got the result.Forget about that even while making a new thread if your topic name is same XDA throws up search result, Still people go on making same topic threads again for what ? just to gain posts ? This is not the way someone behaves on forum.Forums have rules and they are meant to be followed.But people don't and look at our forum its so much bloated had everyone followed atleast one rule of searching or looking out there would have been loads of less threads.Also do people really think that posting a topic 1-2 days after its originally posted somewhere is really smart ? Come on this is not your group of friends its INTERNET and it includes people over the world and people who are much smarter than me you or anyone.Accept it.So just give a thought you dont even have to do mathematics,simple logic says that someone would have already posted it,could have search just for sake of that..But again who cares some break rules some take the sides of those who break rules.Can't help and the post like what i made comes out of frustration and losing patience.
PS : A video from XDA for all those who think rules are flexible and taken for granted and there is always a first time :
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Click to collapse
WOW that video is so old, it is not even funny. I remember when I first signed up on this site, the very first login that popped up before I could pull up the forum. I wonder if they still do that for all the n00bs when they first login.
jimbridgman said:
WOW that video is so old, it is not even funny. I remember when I first signed up on this site, the very first login that popped up before I could pull up the forum. I wonder if they still do that for all the n00bs when they first login.
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I've been on here for a couple of years and never seen it. Maybe Archmag3 should keep that video for tomorrows repeated questions or posts.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using xda premium
tmease1 said:
I've been on here for a couple of years and never seen it. Maybe Archmag3 should keep that video for tomorrows repeated questions or posts.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using xda premium
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Haha..That made me laugh :laugh: but no seriously everyone should just post that video instead of posting anything else for repeated questions or posts/threads
I've been a loyalist to the SL i9003 forum, From the day the threads went up to when we were grouped under the Galaxy S section as a sub base, Honestly despite moving onto greener pastures the SL i9003 has always been my first choice in the android department, hence why I still keep my SLi9003 and why I would spend as much as it takes to keep it alive than any other higher tier class phones.
First, this thread means no threat, but ofcourse, this is General section and anything goes, The moderators have been doing a splendid job, and if anything what surprises me the most is the activity----in a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section, but a few things have irked me.
I have stood around in the Hillbeast thread and side with Dhiru's and both are what's "Hot" or what's keeping thing's alive here, in a place where development has met it's scarcity. I agree the moderators have done their job properly in keeping things in line where patience runs short considering both developers (Or might I recognize just one- Hey it's the truth, monkey see, monkey do) depend on each other's work to keep the phone in it's tip top shape, but why has the moderation been so strict?
If anything this is the Legacy & Low Activity Devices and we have been shot down from once a standard recognized phone, to the abyss of low tier phones, I would agree there is alot of noob questions being asked, and alot of ruckus about the recent events, but aren't we, the community to decide and voice our opinions out? I would agree the noob questions/statements need to be rubbed off from the thread but I feel the manner of erasing certain posts and thread has gone a bit---overboard and I feel this thread would meet it's match soon. Again, I mean no disrespect to the fine moderators who have done their job properly. I just feel someone had to state this out.
And why? A small share, I was told recently I had been featured on XDA and I didn't even know it (GTab 10.1) so I decided to Google myself, upon doing so, I had seen my threads been offlinked, copy pasted from the GT-i9003 section into other forums, usually I'd ignore this but I noticed most of them are scared to ask or post because of the strict moderation that goes around that too on a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section. Most of them require the tutorial guide in order to move forward to dhiru's ROM because everyone knows if you screw up while flashing a firmware, you end up having a screwed phone not worth having a "blessing" on. I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
This has just been going on for a while, and I feel I needed to say this, perhaps most of the community would agree with me on this.
Good job once again to the moderators. With all due respect.
thats really true ....
well said brother !!!
Hope Mods doesn't delete this topic also !!!
nicely said ! if it wasnt u, i would have posted such ! because things do seem to get out of hand ! before you kno it most of the important posts are deleted without the concerned developers reading it!
shriomman said:
nicely said ! if it wasnt u, i would have posted such ! because things do seem to get out of hand ! before you kno it most of the important posts are deleted without the concerned developers reading it!
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I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
Misledz said:
I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
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Ya especially feedback by senior member for hillbeast & not stupid feedback by stupid noobs who have recently joined this forum (who dont know history of this fotum).
@ misledz
Well said brother
@OP .. or anyone else ... care to explain all this in a more of layman's term. Just for literarily inept people like me.
What exactly happened? What was posted and then removed?
Only then I might be able to participate in this debate.
Flame me for my opinions but not for my questions.
Hetalk said:
@OP .. or anyone else ... care to explain all this in a more of layman's term. Just for literarily inept people like me.
What exactly happened? What was posted and then removed?
Only then I might be able to participate in this debate.
Flame me for my opinions but not for my questions.
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More or less when we placed our expectations on HB we had hoped there would be more of a response than ignorance. Instead the posts got deleted, thread got cleaned and such.
@krazzy Wow I didn't think id' see you here too
^^ Now I see what exactly you're saying.
Even I felt that after months(weeks if you say so) of inactivity for a much awaited and critical development, asking for a ETA(disguised or not) shouldn't be considered a taboo/bane.
People (current senior members) knew(anticipated) this was critical to further development for this device, and decided to donate for a device to get a willing (note this word) and experienced developer to help in this project.
For new users , before posting anything, please understand that lack of development on this front is taking a toll on the very few developers we have for this device. I personally know a couple of devs, who could have helped in this development, if it really happened, who have moved on for greener pastures.
I repeat, these seniors who are (unnecessarily?) asking for ETAs aren't asking after a week from initial announcement/donation.
This is just my opinion, as I felt obliged to post it.
I agree with you:
Improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
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But it is also true that most of the time things are not done the way they should be. I'll use as an example Hillbeast's Kernel 3.x thread too:
Since the beginning, hillbeast stated users should use [Q/A] thread for inquiries and different stuff instead of the development thread, but people continued posting questions in that thread. At first, hillbeast answered almost every question; then, people started asking for ETA and such annoying things, and that's something we could not allow. Finally, moderators appeared and cleaned the whole thread, and now they keep it 'cleaned', also deleting questions not directly related with kernel 3.x development, which at first were more or less tolerated.
To sum up, the ones who worsened the situation were we, people who don't understand the current problems developers are facing, and that led to moderators deleting posts of people just asking questions because they are noobs or they want to know what's going on.
I know it because I've been in this forum for a year and a half (I am not a developer nor a contributor, so I try to keep quiet and just press thanks or give some feedback, that's why I only have a few posts), and i've been reading that thread regularly, at least once a day, since the first post.
I am not blaming anybody, I just think that the way moderators behave has its own reasons...
As we say in Spain, "Al final pagan justos por pecadores", that means something like: "In the end, pay righteous people because of sinners" (sorry for the translation, that's the only way I came up to express it.
Cheers!
@matapollos that's going as my status for the day ! And that has so much truth to it, I've been watching the HB thread ever since it started. Seen the people who took the initiative to help him but a developer is only as strong as the community that favors him, If anything HB should have kept his word, the community had kept theirs on the phone. It just feels---wrong? Yes you will help and answer but there's a saying in english, All bark and no bite. Actions should match what was preached.
As I just woke up and haven't had any coffee, I am not going to do anything with this yet until I have a chance to go through it properly.
OK, gotta run off to work, but here is something.
Misledz said:
I've been a loyalist to the SL i9003 forum, From the day the threads went up to when we were grouped under the Galaxy S section as a sub base, Honestly despite moving onto greener pastures the SL i9003 has always been my first choice in the android department, hence why I still keep my SLi9003 and why I would spend as much as it takes to keep it alive than any other higher tier class phones.
First, this thread means no threat, but ofcourse, this is General section and anything goes, The moderators have been doing a splendid job, and if anything what surprises me the most is the activity----in a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section,
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Thanks.
Misledz said:
but a few things have irked me.
I have stood around in the Hillbeast thread and side with Dhiru's and both are what's "Hot" or what's keeping thing's alive here, in a place where development has met it's scarcity. I agree the moderators have done their job properly in keeping things in line where patience runs short considering both developers (Or might I recognize just one- Hey it's the truth, monkey see, monkey do) depend on each other's work to keep the phone in it's tip top shape, but why has the moderation been so strict?
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I assure you that I am taking actions based on reports. I do not own a Galaxy SL so I am not here other than for mod purposes.
Misledz said:
If anything this is the Legacy & Low Activity Devices and we have been shot down from once a standard recognized phone, to the abyss of low tier phones, I would agree there is alot of noob questions being asked, and alot of ruckus about the recent events, but aren't we, the community to decide and voice our opinions out? I would agree the noob questions/statements need to be rubbed off from the thread but I feel the manner of erasing certain posts and thread has gone a bit---overboard and I feel this thread would meet it's match soon. Again, I mean no disrespect to the fine moderators who have done their job properly. I just feel someone had to state this out.
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I am taking actions based on reports entered by the community members here. Since I do not own a Galaxy SL I am not a member of any of the factions here.
Misledz said:
And why? A small share, I was told recently I had been featured on XDA and I didn't even know it (GTab 10.1) so I decided to Google myself, upon doing so, I had seen my threads been offlinked, copy pasted from the GT-i9003 section into other forums, usually I'd ignore this but I noticed most of them are scared to ask or post because of the strict moderation that goes around that too on a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section. Most of them require the tutorial guide in order to move forward to dhiru's ROM because everyone knows if you screw up while flashing a firmware, you end up having a screwed phone not worth having a "blessing" on. I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
This has just been going on for a while, and I feel I needed to say this, perhaps most of the community would agree with me on this.
Good job once again to the moderators. With all due respect.
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People scared to ask questions? Really? That would be news based on the number of questions that keep getting asked.
Can you give specific examples of your threads which have been copied to other device forums please?
As far as thread cleaning/deleting posts, I can promise that I have not deleted one single bit of "crucial" information.
I have to go for now, but I will continue this later. I want to work with you guys, but I also am required to do certain things for reasons you are not aware of. I am happy to explain them wherever possible.
Thank you,
mf2112
Misledz said:
@matapollos that's going as my status for the day ! And that has so much truth to it, I've been watching the HB thread ever since it started. Seen the people who took the initiative to help him but a developer is only as strong as the community that favors him, If anything HB should have kept his word, the community had kept theirs on the phone. It just feels---wrong? Yes you will help and answer but there's a saying in english, All bark and no bite. Actions should match what was preached.
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Well said Misledz.
My own recognize developer list have only one name still, trying to get it more, however, they still yet to be right.
i have once donate a SL to a XDA member(or Developer?), and now he's still not yet recognized by public (or XDA?) what is going on here at SL forum?
for the MOD, I think they are fair enough, rules is rules, it mean to be follow, but...still...... anyone missing Jay here ?:victory:
Another trend I've noticed, is the rise of the "unofficial" moderators.
People "spamming" on almost every post.
Best example would be a newbie on XDA asking for something like an ETA, and the damn post has 20+ replies saying Donot Ask for ETAs.
This was just an example.
I see that there are more of such posts, than that of regular queries.
This makes checking threads sometimes very much irritating. Opening a thread only to find out just another reply moderating previous posts.
Misledz said:
More or less when we placed our expectations on HB we had hoped there would be more of a response than ignorance. Instead the posts got deleted, thread got cleaned and such.
@krazzy Wow I didn't think id' see you here too
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brother i have always visit i9003 section when i visit xda
moderation shd be strict. so as to keep only usefull n informative posts. else we all will be lost in huge amt of posts.
SaeberTooth4U said:
moderation shd be strict. so as to keep only usefull n informative posts. else we all will be lost in huge amt of posts.
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I have to agree with you.
This forum is for developers. Testers and noobs are here as visitors and if they are looking around for information, they should search very hard before distracting the major contributors. Testing helps the devs, but harassment doesn't. Testing doesn't mean complaining about battery life. That is what spoiled children do. Thinking about yourself. People who have questions will always find the answer to their questions by searching. If there is no answer anywhere to be found (extremely rare), start a new thread in the General Section. It's simple.
I'm neither a developer nor a programmer. But I know my place and just say what's necessary and search very very hard before asking a question. At least I try. I think about the developers that use this forum to work on phones and don't appreciate it when someone who obviously has no interest in development comes and makes demands as though a ROM or a MOD or any feature or bug is the responsibility of these devs.
I find it crazy when I see non-devs here with hundreds of posts.
It would make much more sense for everyone to keep quiet and read. No need to comment on every thread you go through. ESPECIALLY if you're not developing or solving a problem.
samisax said:
I have to agree with you.
This forum is for developers. Testers and noobs are here as visitors and if they are looking around for information.
I'm neither a developer nor a programmer. But I know my place and just say what's necessary and search very very hard before asking a question. At least I try. I think about the developers that use this forum to work on phones and don't appreciate it when someone who obviously has no interest in development comes and makes demands as though a ROM or a MOD or any feature or bug is the responsibility of these devs.
I find it crazy when I see non-devs here with hundreds of posts.
It would make much more sense for everyone to keep quiet and read. No need to comment on every thread you go through. ESPECIALLY if you're not developing or solving a problem.
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samisax, you have my sympathy! You have written exactly what I was thinking. It annoys me when I see people demanding things to developers, as if they were their employers...
At least in this thread I've realised there's still people with good manners that knows when they may ask for something from others or not.
I'm really really relieved. Thank you guys
problem
OK, home from work now. First, I am not ever going to infract or punish someone for expressing their honest opinion, as long as it is done in a civil fashion, so I definitely appreciate a good discussion.
To respond to this thread in a general fashion...I see vague complaints over a great many forums about mods doing this or that, or not doing this or that, but rarely any specific instances. We do have a thread in this forum: Moderators to assist should anyone want to bring up specific instances of problems. That means links so we can go there and fix the problems. Please feel free to use that thread. Please feel free to (continue to) use the report button as several dozen of you already have. I have several pages full of reports from this forum. Please feel free to PM me. Some of you have done this, I have received PMs from a number of members with requested actions of me. People have posted requests in the thread above as well. In fact that is really where this thread should have gone, but you don't really have specific examples, so ok.
So people here are reporting things which I am taking actions per the guidelines I have been issued by the Moderator Committee. "Strict" is all relative. I thought I had been strict but fair so far. According to other mods, including jayharper08, I have been too lenient. I am not sure how much "modding" the Galaxy users here want but I can state that the answer is not leaning towards "lenient" based on the number and types of reports I am getting. If people here didn't care, they wouldn't bother to report thread after thread, post after post.
Without any specific examples I can't really give you specific answers as to why I took whatever action I did, but I can tell you that my motivations for working many many MANY hours on XDA that have led to being a moderator were definitely not to close or move threads or posts from other users in other forums I had no real time or interest for given that I never owned or ever will own any of them, or to have to explain repeatedly that it is NOT OK to distribute paid applications here on XDA as this is a community of developers, some of which do make their living from writing software, and that piracy is stealing in exactly the same fashion as if it had been lifted off the store shelf and walked out with it, or to reluctantly hand out infractions to users after PMs and warnings proved not to be sufficient. We don't like to do this. Not one mod I have talked to enjoys having to discipline members, but the alternative is far worse. We are not going to let XDA go downhill like many other sites have done. There are community rules and the rules will be followed, for the benefit of all in the community.
Now, to answer this thread with a very specific example which in all honesty seems to the the *real* issue underlying most other issues in this forum.
Hillbeast.
First, can someone point me to a thread or something written down which says exactly what hillbeast was supposed to do and when? I don't want to prejudge the situation, but all I know so far is that several phones were purchased with pooled monies, one of which went to hillbeast, one went to dhiru (I think, not sure on this one), and one went to another (unrecognized?) dev that I can''t recall the name of who seems to have skipped. If there is something written down that gives me very clear guidelines on what was given and what was expected it would be very helpful here, instead of vague complaints and ETA demands, which frankly I did erase without a second thought.
I see several posts here in this thread concerned that I might have erased something important. I promise to every one of you that I deleted nothing that would remotely qualify as "important" or more to the point "relevant" to a dev thread. If there was anything even slightly technical or related in those posts, I would keep it and erase only the unrelated parts. I deleted the initial offending posts which were reported, then I removed the followup piling on posts, some of which went overboard and were also reported. When arguments start, both sides posts are going to be deleted. No one is more right from all evidence I have seen so far. Since I do not own this device and am not in any of the factions here, I am not taking any sides, but I will defend any members from unwarranted attacks or unsubstantiated claims.
I am not sure how many people here have even the faintest understanding of how real development works. Too many people I think have a completely wrong understanding based on ROMs they are seeing from "devs" that are nothing more than zip jockeys. Frankly, I doubt there is one person in 10,000 here on XDA that can really understand what hillbeast is trying to do. Without benefit of assistance from the manufacturer.
In fact, the manufacturer doesn't even want people doing this at all since it might cause them not buy the newest model phone.
So what I need here is the contract that was agreed to by hillbeast and the other devs and the members here. I can't go by anything vague or that isn't stipulated by 100% of the involved parties. I wasn't here when this deal was set up, but I promise to carefully evaluate everything and I will act fairly.
Thank you,
mf2112
EDIT: To be clear, I am not saying I am going to take an action here. My gut feeling as someone who has worked around software development for more than 10 years is that many of you guys are simply being too impatient. Especially given that hillbeast (despite the irony of his username ) is not an employee of anyone here to the best of my knowledge.
As far as how people want me to mod...well, I am not jayharper08 so I am not going to do things like he did. I can tell you that I don't want to run the forum. I don't want to go through all the threads and posts and find "modly" things to do in my not-so-spare time. When people report things then I come check it out and figure out what to do. Since people here report a lot, I am here more often, which is fine with me but some people may not appreciate. BTW, your thread was not reported, I found it on my own. :victory:
The above being said, I am human and I can make mistakes. If anyone has an issue then talk to me. If I did something wrong I will correct it. If you disagree with something I have done then let me know why (civilly) and I will explain to the best of my ability. You have no reason to fear talking to me in public or private. I became a mod to help people here, not harm them.
Mf2112,
Firstly I would like to thank you for taking the time to sit and read through this and place your points on the table along with your opinions. In a way the thread wasn't that hard to find (Considering the Triangle and the word "Moderator" brings people to see what's being said, pretty nifty tactic I learned over at the GNexus side LOL) as much as I would like to press thanks, the ever so wonderful system has permitted me from my daily 8 limit. And I would do so because this was more or less the response I least expected, in the sense, it's a good response, infact an unbiased one but touches all areas, like a pedophile checking his new victim.
Before I start this, I have no ill intention towards HB, but the whole ETA in the HB thread turned sour only because the agreement between developer (I would hold my word on the developer part) and community was made in exchange. Yes his help was sought out because we had believed that XDA is a place where people share their expertise. Do what is agreed upon (with a fair deal ofcourse) and we don't place any high expectations or hopes in such. But when it's been half a year, that's when things start to roll considering with each passing month, another flagship Class A/B phone get's launched, which is the initial reason why the ETA's went up in flames (But ofcourse this only applies to who ACTUALLY can do something with it). I would have agreed if HB had stated what he lacked, and why he was unable to provide so, he had done initially in the beginning, but when it was more of "Speak first, we listen, then show us what you have done" he turned all silent, which turned tides.
There were 4 phones donated, DoomLord, Fuss132, dhiru, codeworkx. Each of them presented something within a short time of the device they were given, I mean such is the expectation isn't it? I know pooling isn't a big deal considering its $5-$10 each person, but if the community was aware that there were going to be no results that would emerge then they would have donated to XDA instead and gotten a pretty gold star beside their name. I don't know if I'm being too emotional over $5-$10's, but when you climb up that harsh economy ladder from a third world country like most of us do, you suddenly get that feel of how important/valuable $1 is. (Consider the fact that some would find people crazy to spend over RS/PHP 20k over a phone where that would pay up for 1 semester of a College student)
I completely agree however of the mindless babble of those who submit no contribution but have high # of posts. It's insane. But with XDA having 5+ million online user's daily, It's hard to determine who helps and who doesn't. Which is why I've mentioned you have done a splendid job in clean sweeping the arena. Keep up the great work and sorry if this has gone a bit indepth.