Database Info

Tytn/M3100 vs Jamin/M600

OK - due to a change of jobs and the time coming to upgrade anyway, I am looking to get a PDA phone. Previously been a nokia user.
Was looking at the Jamin, but then along came the Hermes.....
New place is all Terminal Server based so not sure if i will be able to sync with Outlook. May still want to use calendar on phone independently.
As far as I can see, the pros and cons are as follows :
Jamin - thinner - more likley to fit in pocket whereas Hermes will be a bit bigger.
Hermes has keyboard however - and jog wheel - useful especially if I use the calendar without syncing and have to enter data. (suppose i could sync with my home pc calendar and enter that way tho.) How much do people really use the keyboard on it? odd friends with them tend to say not much. But not having a keypad still concerns me.
Hermes is faster/newer, but uses micro SD cards and mini USB for headphones. Jamin uses SD and 2.5mm jack. Jamin can be overclocked a bit (seemingly with no great impact on stability) but should make it reasonable.
Both have wifi, both vibrate I assume and both can have MP3 ringtones.
I am currently on orange and their current plans suck quite honestly. Obviously T mobile have web n walk or whatever, but I still remember the days of one to no-one and have concerns - A phone with poor reception is useless to me. (mind you not sure the Jamin is available on other networks?) How much data would I really use anyway whilst out and about.
Hmmmm. Its all a bit too much and most of the shops near me don't have examples I can go in and pick up to see what they are like to even hold.
Any advice or things I have missed would be greatly appreciated.

I currently use M500, unlocked to use with T-Mobile Web'n'Walk.
I upgraded to M600 (again, unlocked it to use with T-Mobile), but it wasn't even capable of scrolling through pdf documents, so I've just got rid of it.
So, if there was a choice between M600 and M3100, I'd go for the M3100 due to the extra processor speed, even though I've never been keen on the extra thickness caused by having the thumb-board.
Another major reason for preferring the M3100 is that the M3100 has 3g and is capable of 3.5g, the best the M600 is capable of is Edge.
If I do get the M3100, I will of course unlock it and use it on T-Mobile web'n'Walk.
Incidentally, I was a loyal Orange customer for nearly 10 years, but I refuse to pay their data charges. I have had no issues with T-Mobile coverage, but then I am in London, so woulldn't really expect any problems.
Regards

Well I love my Jamin which I had for almost 3 month now. (Used regular Motorola for phone and iPaq for PDA before that).
I have a long commute on a bus each day, and it makes it pass quite fast, listening to MP3 and surfing the web at the same time.
For all my daily uses I never had a speed problem, and I never overclocked it. Although I don't use navigational software and Skype.
Yes, the full SD is a plus, but if I had the choice now I would probably choose the Hermes because of the 3G and the faster processor.
Mainly I would have suffered the microSD because the device is newer overall, but I like gadgets.
As for the keyboard, I used my PDAs for over year and a half for various stuff and never felt the need for it. Unless you intend to type word documents or very long emails, the virtual keyboard will do just fine.
Personally I would prefer a phone pad like on ASUS 525 (not out yet, unfortunately).
Well that's just another opinion for you.

Still not decided
Cheers guys, although I am still in a quandry.
I guess the remaining key questions are:
How much of a hassle is the lack of a normal headphone socket on the Hermes?
Given that I have finally concluded that I can live without a keyboard is the jog wheel on the Hermes worth the extra thickness - I have heard it is great for quick and easy use.
How much would I notice the slower speed (not bothered re Skype) - I have heard that people who have not had pda phones before notice the speed the most.
Any experiences advice welcomed again.
Cheers
C
How much would I really use the data part whilst out and about (as wifi at home) - could get a good deal with say vodafone if you exclude the data element. Am still worried about T mobiel coverage - I live in Kent and work would take me round the country once or twice a month - reception then would be useful.

Just seen main tytn thread about possible new Orange data oackage - may answer one of my questions.....

OK - the unlimited GPRS off peak only bundle is not what I was looking for.(Orange- you really don;t have a clue about this data stuff...)
Am still in a quandry, have been watching the tytn threads as well. Cost is also an issue at the mo, and looking at the other threads the device cost may be a bit steep for me.
Seems to be quite a few suspect handsets around with dodgy keys and screens that lose alignment. Byt the time the device comes out on Tmobile and Orange (imminent I know) and then gets out of stock and back in etc it will be months before I got one anyway. I am now thinking it would be better to get a Jamin on Orange and just not really use the data during the day too much. Just sign up for 12 months and look again next year.
Would be able to use existing and cheaper SD cards. 2.5mm jack is good. T mobile reception for the data still worries me as I would be travelling a bit. Hopefully most of the bugs are now ironed out of the
Jamin, and it is thinner.
Any other hints/advice would be appreciated.

T-Mobile Wing vs Tilt vs Nokia N95- Advice please?

After spending much time searching your forums (my goodness you're all so knowledgeable and generous!) I haven't been able to quite answer my questions. I am in dire need of a phone as my crappy motorola is on it's last legs (we're talking buttons falling off, the works) so I've decided to spend some actual money on a decent phone. I've looked around for a while now and have been lusting after the Tilt for some time now. I would have to buy an unlocked one as I am on the T-mobile network and soon moving to Canada and switching to yet another network. My worry, however, is that I've heard and read some really terrible things about the Tilt. RLoD anyone? So while I am very drawn to it, I need a reliable phone, not one that craps out a couple months after I drop $500 on it. The numbers of malfunctioning Tilts/Tytn IIs seem quite high or am I wrong?
I've come to you, oh wise ones, seeking your counsel learned from many hours of alternately cursing and lauding the HTC name, no doubt.
I need a phone that offers me some productivity, email, messaging, multimedia (mostly, I'd like to be able to listen to music). It must have wifi. I would prefer it not drive me to putting my head through a wall. It would be nice if it had a gps receiver (like the Tilt and the N95) as I would like to run garmin mobile on it but could deal with using an external receiver on the Wing, if it turned out to be the best phone for me.
The reason I love the Tilt and Wing models is primarily the keyboard and touch screen. However, the problems people are having with HTC products have left me quite leery of buying one of their phones. Which is why I was also looking at the N95, most of it's reviews have been favourable although the learning curve to get it to the right level of productivity with 3rd party apps seems steeper. I've had Nokia phones before though- those Finnish build for Vikings, I guess. Never had one of those crap out on me.
Anyhow, I've rambled enough. Any advice or information you might want to throw at me would be appreciated. Thank you so much

My thoughts....
Given what you are after, I would stay with the Wing or Tilt. While I don't own a Tilt, I have used it a fair amount and I can see where reliability could be an issue. If that is a concern, the Wing (or Herald / P4350) has proven to be a very reliable phone (passed my "Wife" test ). It does not have built in GPS or 3G and the processor is slower, but I think you would be happy with it.
I hate the N95. It is a good (not as good as I expected from the "Carl Z" lens and 5MP) camera, good music player and good reception phone, but most of the other functions suck - IMO. The two way slider drives me crazy because if you accidentally slide open the media controls the screen goes to landscape and the only way to change it back is to slide the keypad section up and then back down.
Personally I like the Touch XL (Elfin). It is SOOO much smaller and lighter than the Tilt and Wing and really the only thing you loose from the Wing is the hard keyboard. There are some great soft keyboards avail. for the Touch that allow me to type just as fast on it as my other devices with the keyboard. Take a look at some of them that I have customized in my signature, for example.
Good luck!

You know, I haven't looked too much at the Touch models. I suppose I just figured if I was willing to go the soft keyboard route, I would take my chances with an unlocked iPhone. I figured I would either get my qwerty keyboard or give it up entirely. There seem to be a few variations of the Touch, and you recommend the XL? I shall have to do some research.
The camera features on the phones are the lowest on my list of needs. More of a bonus than a necessity. Nokia has splashed the Carl Zeiss name all over those N Series phones but at the end of the day, a camera phone is a phone, not a dedicated camera and will always fall short for me as I play with dSLRs, so most of the time I just don't bother with the camera on my phone.

Tilt.........

There have been several threads on this...
in a nutshell, if you need great multimedia / (even 3d hardware accelerated) gaming / call recording / camera / a great phone / being light and small, get the N95. If you need Windows Mobile / a touchscreen / a strcitly built-in keyboard and don't need gaming / multimedia / a good camera / call recoridng capabilities etc. and the much higher weight isn't a problem either, get the Kaiser.
I myself would go for the N95 but that's just because I already have the iPAQ 214 as a WinMo handheld (with which the N95 works together very well) and I use the MM features and the camera (which is just great) of the N95 a lot. But that's me.

I realize there have been several threads on this, but what wasn't fully addressed was the reliability issue. There were more than a few threads on this very site that made the Kaiser sound like a rather lovely, briefly useful, piece of crap.
I suppose I'm wondering how likely it is to die on me (I really haven't been able to find out anything solid on how many/often they malfunction) and for those people that did have it die on them, why did you keep going back for more?
The reason the Wing was in the running (in spite of not having all the featues of the Tilt) is that I haven't read of any huge reliability issue with it as with the Tilt.
So I suppose my question is being posed to those people who have had problems. Would you actually still recommend this phone? (If there is somewhere else I should have posted this, please let me know).

Would you recommend the Fuze?

I've really been considering to buy the Fuze, but I'm getting mixed reviews. For all the Fuze owners, please answer the poll so that us potential buyers will know what to do.
Thanks!

anyone else wanna vote?

theomni said:
anyone else wanna vote?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm stuck in between the Fuze and the Touch Pro now... I really don't know which one is better? They are the same price nowadays.

I recommend it. I had the Tilt before and I love the Touch, its probably the best WM phone I've had (I've used the Sprint 700wx, Sprint Q, Sprint Touch, AT&T Tilt and now the AT&T Fuze).
I'm sure the few issues that exist with the Fuze will be fixed within a month or two because of the wonderful people we have here making custom ROMs, porting radios, etc.

I am very happy with my Fuze. It's not perfect and definitely needs some tweaks, but I think it is the best Windows Mobile phone ever put out. The screen is fantastic and makes it worth it by itself.
Pros:
VGA screen
Excellent multimedia
Youtube works both in it's own app and the mobile website
Slingbox looks fantastic
Expanded keyboard
Sleek design
Touch Flo 3D really works good
Finally, good bluetooth reception
Cons:
So-so d-pad
More remappable buttons needed
No headphone out jack
I do miss the tilting screen of the Tilt
No forward facing camera (why AT&T?)
Overall, I love the phone. I don't even need to use my laptop much anymore. Plus, it should only get better. I can't wait to see the Fennec web browser released for WinMo.

The Fuze can run on AT&T's 3G bands, which is the biggest difference. Physically, the Fuze has a PTT button (remappable using a trick in this forum) and the Pro has a front-faceing camera, but they are otherwise the same. You can install whatever Touch Pro ROM you want on the Fuze once you flash Hard SPL on it, so the software difference should not be an issue. If you're on AT&T and in a 3G area, it's a no-brainer decision between the two.

Tempest790 said:
No forward facing camera (why AT&T?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
US carriers don't support that functionality so it's cheaper for HTC to leave it out all together.

I've swithed from iPhone after droolling over Fuze release date for 2 months. First couple of days had slight regret (my first WM phone), but once I got the hang of it I fell in love with it. My girl tried it out and dropped her iPhone for Fuze aswell. IMHO, Fuze is on a much higher level and you just can't customize the iPhone the way you can Fuze, no matter what Apple commercials say. Oh and by the way, I realized how crappy Apple products are, but that's another story.

I said no because its not for everyone. I read a lot of people wanting something other than the iphone because of the data plan, this is not an iphone. Then they go and complaint that they cant do this, that its slow, that this, that that. I confess, I am/was one of those whining byotches. I know its not an iphone, I'm just afraid to customizing with roms and then f-it up and be stuck with a nice $300 paper weight. So maybe after my month is up, I'll have the balls to customize it.

Do you have to buy a data plan with the Fuze like you have to with the iPhone, for AT&T?

Only if you want the rebate.

If you want the best browser/entertainment device thats easy to use get an iphone. If you need a business phone outside of entertainment, get the fuze. Both are aimed at different type of consumer.

I know this is exactly what everyone hates to hear, and they just want a plain yes or no, but it really does depend on the person.
If your the kind of person thats really into the stuff they buy, and wants a device that has tons of opportunities and possibilities, then you will probably like the fuze. The beautiful thing about winmo devices is how much you can mess around with them. You can download tons of apps, customize, flash new ROMs, experiment, all kinds of stuff.
If you want something that is ALWAYS going to be friendly and never ever give you any quirks or problems and you just want something that is very cut and dry, the fuze may not be for you.
I would line up your priorities and see what is most important to you and more importantly, what would make you want to throw your phone out the window, cause those are the things that are ultimately going to make you happy when your using your device.

Fuze thoughts:
I have had this phone for 3 days now. My prior phone was an 8125. I unlocked and customized that phone after 30 days. I will most likely do the same thing with this one. Gotta read read read.
Initial review: Absolutely the awesomest phone I have had to date, only the 3rd PDA, though.
I miss the programmable buttons. I haven't figured everything out, but I am getting the hang of it. It has advanced customization, though I haven't even touched the surface. The keyboard is a little different from my 8125, and as I have used it extensively for 2 years, I am accustomed to the numbers being along the top row. I think the 'Full 5 Row QWERTY keyboard on the phone should more closely resemble a normal keyboard, however, I am certain I will get used to it with a little practice.
I have one problem that AT&T doesn't know how to fix: the error message "Smart Chip Not Provisioned MM #2" comes up and shuts off phone signal. I initially thought it was the smart chip. I placed it in my 8125, and no problems. Then I exchanged the phone. Still no fix. It isn't a hard error I can readily duplicate, it just happens intermittently, but only in a specific location, so now I suspect the towers serving the area in which it happens. I suppose it could be the sim card in conjunction with the 3G network which the 8125 doesn't support, but further troubleshooting will eventually solve this one.
Addtionally I was hoping that AT&T wouldn't cripple the forward facing camera, but it isn't there, and I'm not willing to pay $550 more for a Touch Pro off Ebay just for that. As there isn't a lot of network support for live video conferencing, it really isn't that much of a problem for me anyway.
Reception seems to be about the same as my 8125, but again, further testing will support or disprove my initial experience. I am currently having trouble with the GPS function, but it is probably just a configuration/setup issue that I have not played with enough. The phone will tether without the laptop connect package, but you have to make a small edit in the registry. This is a relatively painless process.
This is not meant to criticize the Fuze. These are the only real problems (and minor to me) that I have encountered, and would give this phone a HIGH recommendation.
MrRuss

HTC Fuze vs iPhone

I am about to get a new phone and it's down to these two. I'm pretty familiar with the iPhone. It's nice, but doesn't do many of the things I would like, plus I can't stand the thought of a locked down device. What I do like is the great internet experience and the speed of the UI. I have been looking at the Fuze for a while and have some questions.
What GPS options are you using?
Any way to remove the AT&T junk?
If I get a cooked ROM (I barely know what that is right now), does it void the warranty? And can I download the original ROM to reflash back to original?
Any way to lock the touchscreen and front buttons to avoid accidentally answering the phone?
Did someone reallyfigure out how to turn off the PTT button?
What do you not like about the Fuze?
Thanks in advance!

HTC WM6.1 phone vs. iPhone
I have both HTC phone and Iphone...
The iphone is a great device, if you are a teenager and most of your use is text message buddies, play games, surf the net etc. I would certainly enjoy one like it if I am on vacation in the US. The iPhone is locked to AT&T only, so if you are going overseas, like I do from time to time, your iphone becomes either a brick, or a $$$ hungry device if you dare use it and pay roaming.
My 14 years old enjoys my iphone a lot. It's cool. it's fun, it looks good, and it is important when you are 14...
Now if you buy it for business and for connectivity with an office, then the unlocked cooked roms are the answer. Yes, warranty is an issue if you use a cooked ROM, but there is always a way to put back the AT&T stock ROM. So unless you have failed the phone in a manner one can not re flash it, it is not a big deal. Flashing the phone is quite easy and the wiki on this forum is very helpful. For your GPS questions- you can use TomTom or iGO. Assuming you buy them, there is no monthly charge after. By using a cooked ROM the AT&T junk is no longer there, and as far as applications to load, well, it's a WM phone. Connectivity to OFFICE package is superb, and there isn't an application in the PC world that you can't find a PPC version of it (almost, anyways).
Locking screen and keys is simple, with high 3D graphics. Look around on the forum and you will find few.
PTT button works IF you pay AT&T for the servie. No one I know uses it. We all reprogramm this hard key to do something else. I don't think there is a real need for a PTT service (Nextel like) unless it is a company phone and there are a bunch of guys wanting their own channel of communications.
HTC , by definition, came up with a bunch of cool phones. Very reliable, long lasting, with nifty features. The good news is WM7 is around the corner, so it is going to be even better...
Enjoy your new phone, whatever you choose to have. this post is just one opinion, but you ask an unbiased opinion in the WM forum... none here is really crazy about the iphone...

Thanks. I'm a long way from 14. I will use it for some business (anyone know how to get Lotus Notes on this thing?), but mostly as a phone, some texting, some multimedia, personal email, and some internet surfing. Pretty mixed bag. This will be my first smartphone, so there will be some learning curve. I'm not a big fan of the iPhone, but it's more of distrust of how Apple handles things and the total loackdown they have on the device. We have several Apple products in our house, the wife loves them. Me, not so much. Nice stuff, I just prefer more choices in how I use my hardware.

if you are wanting to customize like you say you are, then yes you will want the touch pro. you will just need time to sit down and do some reading.
Yes you can remove att's bloatware, you will just need to flash a new rom.
ROM means read only memory it basically is just everything they will stay on your phone when you hard reset. A clean version of a rom would be something you would get directly from microsoft. But lets say you by a laptop from dell or hp, they will give you all kinds of crap that doesn't really have to do with the operating environment. You will get dell-ware or hp-ware.
Basically by flashing a rom you just have a choice in what you want on your ppc, there are all kinds of flavors of roms everything from the bare minimals of the phone to even run (super-clean) or a multimedia rich rom (there are even roms based around programs like manilla, throttlelauncher, htc home, ect)
Yes flashing a rom will void your warranty if its not an official Rom, but you can revert back to send in for warranty purposes.
The touch pro has an accelerometer (motion sensor). just one reason to go with the fuze over the x1.
Customize, customize, customize. Thats what we all do with our phones. My friends tells me i seem to have a new phone everytime i see them. All of this just takes some reading and may look daunting at first but you will get the hang of it quick enough.
let me know when you pick up your touch pro if you need some help on where to start.
----One more thing windows mobile7 is a little way out but wm6.5 should be out soon (which will be almost windows mobile 7 minus integration of zune)

Coming from a fuze owner...
I know this thread is somewhat old, but it's the third result if you search Google for "iphone vs. htc fuze," and I'd like to add my two cents for anyone else who has to make this choice.
I recently used my upgrade and got a Fuze. Before doing this, I did my research and read the comments about it being slow and clunky with the stock ROM, but that you had the ability to change almost anything with cooked roms, different applications, etc. I'm a pretty tech savvy guy, so I didn't think I would mind. After weeks of trying to decide between the Fuze and the iPhone (with some consideration of the bb Bold), I sucked it up and got the Fuze.
I'm somewhat happy about my decision. Hardware-wise, the phone is amazing. The slide out QWERTY keyboard is awesome (although the keys are a little crammed), the phone looks slick IMO, and the weight is decent; it feels like it could take a little abuse. The camera is nice, the reception (even stock) is nice, etc.
Software-wise, the phone is quite clunky. I know it's been said to death, but Windows Mobile is an awful operating system. Some of the features that I like (e.g., the file explorer, 'right clicking,' and text selection) are wonderful; however, WM6.1 is not designed for touch. TouchFLO3D is nice, but it's just the outer coating. Once you touch the screen to read more texts, go to the file explorer, etc., however, you have to enter WM6.1 again.
I have also heard comments about there being a ton of applications for Windows Mobile. This is true, however, now that the iPhone is out, there has been a HUGE push to develop apps for that platform (e.g., better AIM clients, Facebook mobile, online banking, etc). The applications are in one place and easier to access (app store) and are more user-friendly/fun. Certain programs are also integrated better with the iPhone (e.g., Google Maps)
Opera Mobile (for internet browsing) is alright on the Fuze. It's better than the options for Blackberrys, but the iPhone has it completely beat in this department. Many sites don't work without a little tweaking (e.g., Google News), and some sites don't work at all (Bank of America online banking). I did notice that some sites will work if you switch over to Internet Explorer, but that's a pain.
I feel like HTC completely wasted their hardware on this. It would be an excellent phone if it ran on Android or even on their own OS.
The only type of person I can recommend this phone to is a business user who sends out a lot of emails, but doesn't like the Blackberry style keyboard.
If you're a business user and don't mind, get a Blackberry. It's the corporate standard. Even Obama has one!
If you are:
a consumer
a mac-user
someone who wants the best mobile internet experience
or just someone who wants to have fun with their phone right off the bat, and not have to completely tweak it
get the iPhone, G1 (another phone made by HTC), or Palm Pre when it comes out.
I don't completely hate the phone, I just dislike it enough to suck up the $20 restocking fee and get a new phone (probably an iphone).

I see how old this is... but after i got the red light of death on my tilt and its out of warranty... 376 bucks is a waste of cash for a known problem and crappy battery life. I thought about the Fuze but HTC pissed me off. I'm gonna get the iPhone hopefully it has a better battery so i dont have to charge it every night like my tilt! if not ill go old school and get a rzr... lol... thank you XDA it was fun while it lasted and i got alot of help along with ;earning really cool things about wm 6.1... peace

I am not using the Fuze but I am using the Kaiser, my wife uses the Hermes, and all our kids have the I-Phone. I borrow their I-Phones from time to time. Here are my observations.
I-Phone
The I-Phone is very slick. The best thing about the I-Phone is its size, weight, the size of the screen, and the simplicity of use. There's not a slicker more carefully designed phone out there. Anyone can use it with little trouble. It's very dependable. You ask then, "Why aren't you using an I-Phone"?
Windows Mobile Phone
I'm not using the I-Phone for several reasons. I'm a businessman. I have literally thousands of contacts on my phone. I can access them more quickly on my Kaiser than I can on the I-Phone. The Kaiser's QWERTY is flat out faster than typing on the screen (although one of my sons can type nearly as fast as I can on his I-Phone because of his thin fingers).
When I need information, I need it fast. When I'm in a meeting someone needs to find an address or anything on the web, I beat the I-Phone users to the punch all the time. Time is money.
I do speed tests with both the Kaiser and the I-Phone. The results on the two types of phones from our home are about the same on dslreports.com. However, I can get to the information I want faster with IE than I can with Safari. Yes, Safari on the I-Phone is great but I have to let the page load then blow up a portion of the page and move it around. This takes time.
3G signal is another area where the HTC phone beats the I-Phone. The HTC phones seem to pick up 3G signals in more places than the I-Phone. This may change as I-Phones improve. Just my observations.
I love the integration of Word, Excel, Power Point, etc, with WM6.1 It works very well.
There are still many things the I-phone cannot do.
1) There's no cut and paste. Yea, I know it's coming. But how well will it work.
2) It cannot handle adobe .pdf files. I get these sent to me all the time in emails. They're almost always business related. I can read them and respond quickly where ever I am.
3) There's no stereo bluetooth so one has to look like the retards Apple shows on its commercials bouncing around to the music wearing wired earphones. I use my stereo bluetooth headsets all the time with my HTC phones. I can listen to music and not miss any important calls. I can walk all over my office with the phone in my office and still get calls.
4) I can use my HTC phones on several networks in the U.S. and elsewhere.
5) There's no removable memory or batteries. The EU will force Apple to make I-Phones with removable batteries. But I still like being able to keep certain data on a storage card.
6) The charger the I-Phone uses is proprietary. I like fact that the HTC devices use a standard USB charger.
In conclusion, the I-Phone is definitely a game changing device. It's a great device for kids, the elderly, and those who won't or cannot become computer savvy. Eventually, the I-phone may catch up to the HTC devices to the point I'd consider one.
The fact of the matter is that the HTC devices are more powerful devices and are especially more powerful for the business user.

Why ‘o’ why will they not learn

After owning HTC phones now for over 3 years, when will HTC start listening to people on forums like this one and htcpedia.com, then start making phones with the features that we are asking & waiting for. And just as important when will they start making accessories for these phones. Now owning a Touch HD for over a year I was looking at getting the new HD2, but it appears the mini usb port still does not support music or porting video through it (this is also true on the Touch HD yes I was disappointed when I found out). I would also like to have a built in FM transmitter. I think HTC are missing out on a great future for their phones.
Jez
P.S come on HTC sit up and take notice.

Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .

Livven said:
Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello Livven
Not crying just disappointed with HTC and thinking maybe it’s time to change, to a phone producer that is listening ,it appears that’s exactly what apple are doing. Been in touch with HTC direct about a month after I got the Touch HD asking them to include certain things on the next model and a year later the HD2 was launched which appears to be a big screen HD with no more capabilities.
Cheers jez

I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.

Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop

markgamber said:
I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi Mark
I hear your frustration about the eXpo....I bought a IQ from Telus (the Canadian version of the eXpo) and really didn't like the UI AT FIRST. But the phone has really grown on me. Maybe you should consider keeping it for a couple of weeks, and then giving it back if you still want to.
1) I now find I am figuring out the UI and I am starting to like it. Using Throttle Launcher(free) or Spd Shell($) are both options that are very similar to the TF3D or Sence UI if you really find you want to abandon the S Class UI but I would say try it for a week or two and you may like it...there are things you can do faster than TF3D as well as slower.
2) The stylus situation really sucks. No argument. I have found that after I set my phone up, I can get by without one especially when you figure out how to use the optical mouse functions.
3) GPS I am on Telus, so maybe AT&T has screwed you, but my Garmin Mobile XT software works just fine on my Telus phone. I did have to play a bit though. I installed the Garmin software, and it couldn't find the GPS. I then went into the windows settings, and set up the phone to use COM port 4, and then went into the Garmin setup and selected COM4. STILL no joy. But I then changed the Windows setting back to controlled by windows, and the Garmin software found a "GPS Intermediate Driver". Works great! Locks FAST, and no lag like when I used the Garmin Mobile XT on my Touch Pro.
I have installed Opera Beta 2U, and it with the HSPDA data and the snapdragon it is simply is the best mobile internet experience I have ever used or seen.
Good luck with you Phone hunting,

Hi jez.stix
I have a similar list to you...I got a Telus IQ (Its a Canadian eXpo)
How the IQ compares to your list:
1. winmo
YUP 6.5 (21868)
2. gps for satnav YUP - but check into this (See above ATT may have locked to there software)
3. fm transmitter YUP....sorry! Read this as receiver, Has a FM receiver but no transmitter to go to your car stereo..
4. tv out. YUP
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station ...not sure what you mean here..if you mean like all the docking stuff they sell at Walmart for IPhones..NOPE..of course it has a USB connection.
6. 3.5mm headphone socket NOPE
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works YUP..works quite well with flash
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up YUP OH YAH BIG TIME
The real down side is that it is not a HTC unit so XDA won't support it the way they do a HTC product. I decided I could live with that but that was the hardest pill to swallow. The build quallity is heads and shoulders above my old HTC Touch Pro
good luck in finding your dream phone.

jez.stix said:
Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPhone is actually pretty nice, I just had a couple technical problems with it and, being a dev, I grew really tired of Apple dictating what I can and can't do with my phone and my apps. The most notable thing about the iPhone is that it's fast. When you start a program, it's up and running in short order and stays fast unless it has to do something really intensive or relies on a slow network connection. This being opposed to WinMo where it can sometimes take forever to do anything. This is, of course, because the iPhone doesn't do much real multitasking but if that's not an issue, then the iPhone probably warrants a look. Another problem I had was that most of the world uses WMV/WMA for streaming audio and video and the iPhone not only doesn't support it, Apple has stated that it won't approve anything that does support it. Sometimes you can get around that using Orb but not always and that leads to the third big problem I had with the iPhone, Apple's little tinpot dictator attitude. I've been using Slingplayer for years on WinMo phones and yes, AT&T says you can't use it but the practical side is that as long as you're not an a-hole about it, they don't really care. The bottom line is that I can make the choice about whether or not I want to use it. iPhone's Slingplayer simply doesn't have the option to work over 3G. In fact, the only app of that kind which did was Orb and, as I hear it, Orb Networks just removed it on orders from AT&T and Apple. Technically yes, you can jailbreak the iPhone, install a hack that fools programs into thinking 3G is wifi and those various programs work, but it's a hack and not something you can count on working with the next system update since Apple is working hard to prevent those kinds of hacks from working. Plus they're starting to be exploited by hackers of a less than friendly nature. The iPhone also didn't support what I considered some basic functionality such as cut/copy/paste, MMS and bluetooth audio, for quite some time. When Apple finally decided to include that functionality, they acted as though they invented it. That continues today with the lack of quite a bit of multimedia types, refusal to allow Flash or any browser other than Safari, any kind of advanced bluetooth functionality, multitasking and so on. Again, if you don't care about any of the above, you should probably take a look at the iPhone if only for comparison. It's also *VERY* finger friendly, much moreso than WinMo, and you don't like having to wield a stylus at all, I'd definitely take a look at the iPhone.
I don't know why these WinMo companies are so slow to adopt things that seem like basic functionality to many users but they do improve their products, albiet slowly at times, and they're still a magnitude better than the competition, in my opinion. The HTC Titan sold by Sprint was, without a doubt, the worse piece of garbage I ever owned. HTC actually had the balls to put a measly 128mb of ram in there, put WinMo 6 on it and then let Sprint add all it's worthless slop to it. The bottom line was that it took half a day to boot and when it was finally done, it left somewhere between 8 and 12mb free...not even enough to run Slingplayer. Sprint charged $600 for that chunk of s*it and when I raised hell about it, Sprint not only refused to take it back, they wouldn't even cut me a break on what I had to buy to replace it. That's why I'm now with AT&T. So HTC (and other companies) do improve their products. One valuable thing about the Titan was that I learned to buy a phone for what it can do, not what it's capable of doing.
That's my main problem with the Expo and why I returned it. On paper it's a nice phone and there's a lot of potential in the hardware that is either unrealized or lost in the mess LG slapped together. Hopefully LG improves the system over time but right now it's pretty awful, in my opinion, and no update will ever help that poorly implemented stylus and, most likely, the poor battery life.

htc response
thanks for your email. You are correct, The HD and HD2 do not have TV out. Only the Touch PR line of devices has TV out for using with presentations and the like. The TV Out function was not highly requested in the market research that we did, so we concentrated on what the request were mostly for...larger screen, multitouch, standard 3.5mm jack etc. TV out was very far down on the list of wanted features. As for the music abilities, the only thing i know of that was removed on the HD2 was the remote control. This has returned on the HD2 as we needed to develop one that worked with the standard 3.5 jack that the majority of our customers wanted. This was the only thing removed from the HD. We think we must be doing something right as we are selling more handsets than ever, and winning lots of awards for our handsets as well. However, obviously you cannot please everyone, and if we have failed to meet your needs then i apologise, and hope that whatever device you choose, whether it be one of ours or not, i hope that you will be happy with it and it is everything you want. Best regards, Pete W HTC

I once contacted HTC about their lack of attention to this site.
The response i got made a lot of sense sadly.
Because of all the ROMs made on here and all the software that we reverse engineer from them and others, they cannot associate themselves with us at all due to illegality.
But still, this being the case, I think they could still use this site as a good place to do market research upon. Just because xda-devs is the largest collection of winmo users in one place that I know of, it seems to be the perfect place for them to go to see what their end users want.
I am a designer myself and it seems stupid to ignore the biggest resource of research and ideas.