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For years now I’ve been standing firm by the pocket pc platform. In countless ways I think it is the way of the future for not only one’s phone, but the one device that we all carry around that does it all. I’m very pleased to say the platform has proven this time and time again. But there’s one grey area that just seems to be left in limbo with the improvements of everything else. This is IM! Back when I upgraded to my Cingular 8125 from my ipaq, I remember having the feeling something was missing. I had this new phone that could do it all, but it just wasn’t able to do it all correct, so I sought out on a search to find that perfect im app.
This was back in the days when agile was still in beta and was free. Aside from the ugly aim app that I had to download from the .uk site, this was pretty much the only option. But it was okay, it was a very good option. As time passed a few more came out, IM+ was around as well and a few other lack luster apps. I do remember paying for IM+ but wasn’t very happy with the UI and the way it worked with the soft keys so I kinda stuck to agile.
Then I got a whole of my 8525 when I came out. So I had this phone that could do it all (lol again) now with 3g included….and I still didn’t have an IM app to my liking. Agile and IM+ really started to look bad. Not to mention these were the days of the sidekicks! As much as I hate those things, one has to admit, they do what they’re supposed to do very well. The thing that really wowed me about the sidekick was its ability to switch to sms messenger for the aim when you’re on the phone. This was pure genius. It allowed you to stay connected while on the phone or not. Well….luckily we had a solution for that. It was called verichat.
Verichat had an option to enter your sms address and it would send you the messages via text if you were to be disconnected from the internet. This was all well and good, even though it worked…it was very slow. Not to mention the UI of the app itself was kinda slow as well…so I often got frustrated. So it’s about a year later and we have a few new comers. Among them are mundu, octrotalk and the latest and greatest palringo.
Once again I find myself paying for apps I’m not entirely happy with (no ones fault but myself.) But the life time membership for mundu wasn’t bad…it was only $11. Mundu has a very clean and welcome UI. Its features are definitely up to snuff, but it’s still missing what I think should be the basics. But overall this is a very good app. Octrotalk is still in beta….and by its rights a very good app. Even though I think the UI could use some polish and it’s still missing the “basics.” Now for my favorite of the bunch….palringo. This one is a almost a entire entity on its own, that just supports IM clients. The UI isn’t as pretty as mundu, but it’s still polished and the feature set is great….especially its support for push to talk and image I’m. But again….the basic.
What are these basics I keep rambling on about? Well…for one…lets start with displaying your contacts buddy icons. It kills me that none of these apps allow me to see my contacts buddy icons…and what’s even more annoying, I can’t set a custom pic for my icon in any app. This is such a huge feature and it needs these developers urgent attention. 2. I’d like to see support for fonts and colors. I should be able to import my favorite font to the phone and set size and color to be displayed to my contact when I’m in a conversation. Mundu touched on this a little but not enough. 3. Being able to read contacts away messages. Mundu and octrotalk does this but palringo does not….this should be a no brainier. 4. Just make it simple to navigate….there should be no reason I should have to take out the stylus. I should be able to scroll my list, start convos, switch between them, set custom away messages send images, so on and so forth with the soft keys.
Im not a developer, but I do know these few improvements shouldn’t be hard to accomplish. These are all standard on all desktop IM programs, other mobile platforms (like the sidekick and the iphone) and even web2 based sites (like meboo.com) And even if they’re difficult to develop….so what! Developers need to stop being lazy and get it done. I don’t care of if I have to pay $50 for the app. What really kills me inside is how the iphone came out, and within a few weeks it had 7 different I’m clients most of which had the basics down pat. Why does it take us 4 years in the ppc community? And we’re still not there yet. Anyone else feel this way? Is anyone out there listening???????
You need to re-format your post because it is not easy to read
What is your problem? Describe in 1 or 2 sentences ...
The new MSN Messenger mobile is amazing.
1. Intuitive and Easy navigation: Right/Left tabs between the conversations. Up/Down navigates buddies and messages.
2. Emoticons
3. Supports sending images.
4. (Amazingly useful) Supports sending Voice Clips. This is probably one of the most wow features about it.
5. Displays information about contacts, including the IM picture.
shaharprish said:
The new MSN Messenger mobile is amazing.
1. Intuitive and Easy navigation: Right/Left tabs between the conversations. Up/Down navigates buddies and messages.
2. Emoticons
3. Supports sending images.
4. (Amazingly useful) Supports sending Voice Clips. This is probably one of the most wow features about it.
5. Displays information about contacts, including the IM picture.
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while this is true. im looking for an all-in-one app. but you are correct...i did enjoy the msn live.
rzanology said:
What really kills me inside is how the iphone came out, and within a few weeks it had 7 different I’m clients most of which had the basics down pat. Why does it take us 4 years in the ppc community? And we’re still not there yet.
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My current thoughts exactly. I'm crying inside.
I really hope that people at Palringo will get it "done" and not leave behind a client that will miss the important features. It's really amazing that some companies even charge for their poor inexcusable clients.
I also agree that those avatar images are more important than many would think. Last time i chatted with my ppc, i had three "Timo" persons online. Had to ask which one which was. I've gotten used to just look at the avatar.
I feel the same way! I LOVE having IM on my phone.. but it just seems like no single company can get it right on the PocketPC. I don't understand what the is the problem! My favorite two right now are Octrotalk and Mundu. I tried Palringo, but it lacked a couple critical things for me.
Octrotalk Pros
1. Today plugin that shows status
2. Doesn't crash... ever.. it stays connected for days
3. Fairly simple to change custom status text
Octrotalk Cons
1. No custom status text on the today plugin.. ARGH, so simple, I've requested it three times!
2. No profile pictures, come on... just add them!
3. Having Gtalk be the conduit for the other legacy IM clients still causes problems with my other IM clients like Trillian... I get duplicate contacts often
Mundu Pros
1. Supports profile pictures! Yippee
2. Displays custom status messages next to names on the contact list
3. Supports group conversations across IM mediums! woot!
Mundu Cons
1. No today plugin... I really like that feature in Octrotalk... just make a simple one line plugin that says status and custom message, ie. "Online - Mobile!"
2. No WM5 soft key support, I HATE tapping the screen.. even more so when the interface has a TINY menu bar.
3. Doesn't display the current custom status message for YOURSELF anywhere that I can find.
Also don't forget to read the IM Bible at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=295677 - it might contain info you aren't aware of.
Menneisyys said:
Also don't forget to read the IM Bible at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=295677 - it might contain info you aren't aware of.
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i'll tell ya what....that disconnecting thing annoyed the hell outtah me. Im gonna try to check off the "always on" connection option in HTCustom and see what happens. I think thats the same reg hack.
But i've been through your post a few times...maybe one too many times.
I bought my wife a blackberry bold this past weekend and all I can say is WOW. That thing has WAAAY more features (and settings) than my G1. And don't worry, I unlocked the phone so my wife can use it with our T-mobile accounts. In setting up this device, I've come to realize that a LOT of these features should be implemented into other devices, namely, the G1.
Here's a short list
1. Power-based settings (i.e. brightness changes when plugged in and on battery). A very BASIC feature.
2. Hiding folders in the music player. Blackberry gives the options to NOT include certain folders when searching for music. When I listen to music, I don't want to hear 50 ringtones.
3. User Customizable Profiles. Silent, Vibrate, Work, Home...Why not?
4. Alarm based auto-power on. If i set an alarm, and my phone is powered, but not on, it should be able to power on and wake me up. This is a GREAT feature for people that rely on alarms.(like myself)
5. Bluetooth profiles. I'm not new to mobile devices, so I know this is something they're currently working on. But come on...all we have is the headset profile. What come of lame-o **** is that? a2dp and wireless file access would be great, as well as phonebook access and callid and sms info for car kits...
There's more that I'm forgetting, but that's the gist of it. I realize that we're all technically beta testers at this point, but they should have released a more polished product to the masses. It would have helped their word-of-mouth sales greatly. Look at all the vista negativity. I've been using it without any problems since it was RTM, but people hate it because 'they heard' it has tons of problems. The average joe isn't going to want the g1 because 'they heard' it can't do this, or it can't do that. I personally love the device, and it has great potential, but t-mo and google may have shot themselves in the foot on that front.
InGeNeTiCs said:
Here's a short list
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I'm not trying to be an Android apologist here, but let's run through your list.
1. Nothing exists, but it would take no more than an hours work to code something in Java to handle this.
2. Create a folder named ringtones in the root of the sd card. Nothing in there will be parsed by the default Music Player app.
3. Locale is probably the most popular app to handle this. Get it on the Market.
4. If your phone is in standby (short press red button), Alarm Clock can wake Android up. A more advanced alarm app is Klaxon. Again, get on Market.
5. A2DP support is pending.
No hardware is released perfect. Some imperfections are worse than others, and it's really also a subjective matter. If that above list seems problematic, consider that a competing product has no copy and pasting or support for background apps (making IM apps useless). In that kind of light maybe the fact that your G1 doesn't brighten the screen when you plug it in doesn't seem so bad anymore.
Honestly though if the choice between Blackberry and G1 is a list of periphery features rather than BIS vs Gmail, then you're completely missing the point imo.
Might I also point out that Blackberry OS (and Symbian and WinMo and iPhone) are all very mature OSes. Blackberry being the most mature, and it clearly shows in it's stability and simplistic ease-of-use. The iPhone just has a ton of money backing it, so it's no surprise that it has some superior features, even though its only 18 months old.
Windows is windows... 'nuff said.
Symbian has the backing of Nokia, so obviously it's well developed too.
All of these OSes were CRAP when they first came out. Google has plenty of money backing this project (I hope...) so I plan on giving them another 6 months to work out some of these basic problems before I go back to my good ol' Canadian-made Blackberry.
By the way a new app called simply "Power Manager" has appeared on the Market. Here's the description:
This application is similar to the power mgt apps available on laptops. It allows you to quickly view and change the settings of your phone depending on power states (e.g. turn off the GPS when the battery level drops below 30%, lower the brightness of the screen when on battery power, etc). It also maintains battery stats.
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I just downloaded the battery program and it does address some of my concerns. It just sucks that all of these features have to be added as apps. Not having root access on an opensource device seems really stupid. It's like going to a ferrari dealership giving away free cars. Free cars! BUT....we took the engines out of them. Enjoy! What the hell are you supposed to do with that?
We've got an awesome platform to work with, almost all the source to create anything we want, but no access. It's beyond lame.
And far as the blackberry thing goes, I'm in NO WAY a BB fanboy. I've never owned one, and I they're a pain in my ass because my clients buy them thinking 'they just work' with MS exchange, when they need the enterprise client which my company doesn't want to shell out the cash for. So they get pissed at me when I tell them it doesn't 'fully' integrate. My frustrations aside, I merely used BB as an example of a device that had features that should be available on the G1.
And I think the whole alarm thing got misread. I realize that the phone will 'wake up' when the alarm activates. But if my phone is completely powered off, it will not turn itself on to activate the alarm. While this is not a totally necessary feature, and will probably be rarely used, it's very important for someone who RELIES on their alarms for scheduling purposes. I usually shut my phone off at night (I have customers in several distant timezones), but I can't do that if I want to use the alarm. I could obviously buy an alarm clock, but I don't see why the g1 can't do what another phone can.
No offense but bad analogy... It is hard to find the correct analogy... I guess it would be buying a hand gun, that you couldn't turn the safety off LOL Remember root is taken away for protection of users who don't know what it is. And as of right now we only know root is taken away on RC30... maybe when 1.0 comes out it will be available. Maybe they are working on a GUI to allow you to enable root. We have a long ways to go so I wouldn't say root is gone forever.
Side note: for your users with BB devices. I run Scalix on linux. Funambol bridges the gap for my users. I think that they even have an exchqange connector. Funambol is also availbe in the market place on the g1.
I have no problem with the actual integration process, the company just doesn't want to pay for it. We have people using windows mobile devices with no problems. I give the device recommendations, but they always come back with blackberries thinking it's the same thing. It's just frustrating. I'm venting. Sorry.
Firstly, I've been following the leaks so far, and so I don't want to hear, oh there won't be a multitouch. The bottom line is, we don't know what the final product will be.
Secondly, it goes without saying, that I support any efforts by MS to incorporate capacitative screens. Currently, there are two known and upcoming solutions to replace the stylus, one an RF pen (a stylus that should work with cap. screens- google it!) and a solution that MS has recently invested in, called something like N-trig.
The purpose of this thread is to discuss, and make content those who are against multitouch if it comes to 6.5, or for that matter, 7.
Now, the main argument against multitouch, is that it is against single-handed usage. Here I will list why that is a moot/null/void argument:
- Using the iPhone as an example firstly (and pretty much throughout but it is not due to me having a liking for it, rather I hate it, but I hope to convey a more profound message), though there is argument over the pinch gesture in Safari (their internet browser), the double-tap to zoom is still available. So, the double-tap that we are used to in Opera, is also in Safari. So one can have it both ways. So, to sum up this point, devs would need to make sure that their programs are made for single handed usage, but that multitouch offers a different (and as some would argue, more enhanced) method of using the phone. So single-handed usage is still there, basically.
- Some games, require pressing of more than one button simultaneously. Now if buttons A, B and C are onscreen and are only viable via touch entry, then we're screwed once again as only one given button can be pressed at one time. If you're a gamer, you will know how big a limitation this is to your phone. It hurts in so many scenarios. If you're not into games, or your games are limited to puzzles: trust me, this is a biggie!
- A similar and relevant point; phones like Touch HD bear the brunt of lacking multitouch, as they don't even have a D-pad for games. So all buttons onscreen (D-pad inclusive) can only be pressed one-at-a-time!
- Whether you like this app or not, it demonstrates that some apps simply cannot do without multitouch. Why put limitations? If you want to argue it is against single-touch usage, then press one button at a time !
- Another app that is somewhat heartwarming . I've used it on an acquaintance's iPhone, and it's nice to swirl two of your fingers through the pond making multiple ripples. Again, just use single touch if you're against double ripples .
- Text entry for those of us that type at lightning speed would be hindered where we are required to press one button right next to the next one in quick succession. Why put this limitation?
- I will add more here onwards if something comes to mind. Maybe. Maybe not.
So all in all, single handed usage can still be there, and MS can enforce this in their SkyStore (app store equivalent), though granted it could be difficult. But most developers would do this, as most do what their customers want, not what I, the dev want.
LASTLY, this is not a WM bashing thread if you think like that, so stop hating! This is for improvements only!
Just to let you know...it's not all M$'s fault..Mostly HTC and the companys that make the devices. Just look at the omnia. It has a capactive touchscreen.
Good Points, and just because WM6.5 has Mutlitouch available doesn't mean devs or phone builders would HAVE to use it.
I'm a big fan of "many options."
Side Note: Moved to General Discussion.
Kraize said:
Just to let you know...it's not all M$'s fault..Mostly HTC and the companys that make the devices. Just look at the omnia. It has a capactive touchscreen.
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Is this truly true ? If so, why doesn't Samsung advertise it as much? Also, doesn't the small buttons become difficult to use?
JimmyMcGee said:
Good Points, and just because WM6.5 has Mutlitouch available doesn't mean devs or phone builders would HAVE to use it.
I'm a big fan of "many options."
Side Note: Moved to General Discussion.
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This is precisely my point! The only little niggle is that devs should make sure that productivity tools allow single handed usage as well. One way would be to enforce this through the SkyStore. Another would be to let the magic happen itself.
I really want to see what people will say against my strong defence of multitouch. Come on people!
It will raise the cost of the devices (both due to the much more expensive screen AND the need for a special, larger stylus) and create a further layer of incompatibility between WM devices (those with multi-touch and those without).
Surur
surur said:
and create a further layer if incomparability between WM devices (those with multi-touch and those without).
Surur
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Which is why everyone should have to buy a new device when Windows Mobile 7 is released.
Seems people are forgeting WM6.5 is more like Vista, a stop gap before the better OS ie Windows 7
Why WM6.5 does not have mltitouch ?
I will try to answer this question.
The big hardware manifacturers are in the begining of producin multitouch capable phones (you all know that you need multitouch capable digitizer in order to be able to use multitouch). Microsoft communicated with manifacturers and they were not ready with such devices, which is the reason multitouch to be reserved for windows mobile 7.
Seems people are forgeting WM6.5 is more like Vista, a stop gap before the better OS ie Windows 7
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Totally agree
I see no real benefit in multi-touch on small screen. granted, in games with on devices with minimal input buttons, but until device manufactures actually start releasing 3D drivers for the devices the point about gaming isn't of much substance because there will only be mediocre games.
I don't know what the masses want but I see little benefit in it on screens that one can stretch the thumb from bottom left of the device and reach the top right.
I rather draw a counter clockwise circle to zoom and a clockwise to zoom out.
the real benefit is in the screen response, not the multi-touch. aside from gaming, tell me what other real benefit is there? because I don't see it.
Text entry for those of us that type at lightning speed would be hindered where we are required to press one button right next to the next one in quick succession. Why put this limitation?
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I think this depends on the sip you're using and have no reliance on multi-touch capabilities. I see myself as a very fast typist and this is thanks to the sip I'm using.
do this, ask your friend to do this with his iPhone: press 2 keys at the same time while typing the word "Quilts", so your friend would type it like this "Qu" then "il" then "ts" and tell us what's the result. I am pretty curious as to what the results will be. I would ask my girl to do it but she's at work now.
Is there any free online task (to-do) list that can sync with the tasks in pocket outlook?
I have a few criteria:
1) It can't be through Outlook - I don't have it and don't want to pay for it
2) I don't want to use MyPhone - It would be fine if most of the fields weren't missing with the online interface
3) It has to be free Otherwise I'd just use RTM or Toodledo/Nuevasync
4) It has to sync with pocket outlook - I don't want to use a 3rd party task app
Please? Anybody? There are so many ways to sync either calendar or contacts but none for tasks! I've been looking for so long!
I used to use mail2web but they became not-free...
Thank you in advance...
Have you heart about "EssentialPIM"? Please google for this
http://www.essentialpim.com/de/index.php
borisku said:
Have you heart about "EssentialPIM"? Please google for this
http://www.essentialpim.com/de/index.php
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Thanks for the reply, but I can't get the free version of essentialPIM to sync. I believe only the full version supports this (and that costs money).
Bump
Is there no program or site which will allow me to sync my tasks for free?
Any free desktop PIM app or site will do... (MyPhone's task support is too anemic for my tastes.)
Anyone? Please...
Have you tried funambol? I've lost track with the current status, but it's the open source tool for synchronising calendars and address books of various flavours, as well as providing push email - over the air to all supported phones. I've never used it for tasks, but it may also sync them (there is certainly an option to sync tasks in the funambol client on my phone). You would need to look into it for yourself.
trentend said:
Have you tried funambol? I've lost track with the current status, but it's the open source tool for synchronising calendars and address books of various flavours, as well as providing push email - over the air to all supported phones. I've never used it for tasks, but it may also sync them (there is certainly an option to sync tasks in the funambol client on my phone). You would need to look into it for yourself.
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Their system is weird. It lets you sync for free for 60 days and from then on you can get more time if you 'help funambol' (post about it, help bugfix it etc...)
Thanks for reminding me about funambol in any case - Will look into it.
Any other ideas? Anyone? I can't possibly be the only person in this position!
Here's one that seems to be permanently free and not only gives you OTA live synch of Tasks it does Calendar and push mail as well. Oh, it can also be used with an existing OTA Exchange account.
Lotus Greenhouse Traveler, you will need to register and then download their Traveler client, but after that its a case of let it get on with it.
deedee said:
Here's one that seems to be permanently free and not only gives you OTA live synch of Tasks it does Calendar and push mail as well. Oh, it can also be used with an existing OTA Exchange account.
Lotus Greenhouse Traveler, you will need to register and then download their Traveler client, but after that its a case of let it get on with it.
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Interesting. I never thought of free hosted lotuslive solutions - though I was actively looking for free exchange ones. Will look into this... thanks
Think most people tend to only think of Exchange based solutions as MS are the predominant provider of office based email. As we are a Domino shop at work i tend to keep an eye on what they are doing and thought it might fit your requirements.
Any other ideas? Anyone? I can't possibly be the only person in this position!
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"Thank you for calling Microsoft Innovation Center Support Line, all of our agents are busy helping other customers. For faster service please see Android OS..."
Just a joke to start the day.
I am not certain your exact needs, but I want to put two things in front of you, in case you are not familiar with:
(1) OGGsync -- which i don't think is exactly what you want but take a look. It enables you to sync from Windows desktop Outlook to Gmail to windows mobile. It may sound like a weird system, but it has eliminated all that active sync crap. Still, it may not do what you want. And it's a small purchase of $30, i think annually... But it cuts through all the myriad of problems of Active sync cables etc.
SEE SIMPLE OVERVIEW HERE: http://oggsync.com/
SEE REVIEW from WMexperts here: http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/ogg_sync_for_windows_mobile.html
(2) ZOHO: This is just around the corner, but I think it's going to be one of the best solutions; I;m not sure of parts of it are there now or not.
Everyone knows of the "Google Cloud" suite of web apps: Gmail, Calendar, Documents, Spreadsheets, and so on. But surprisingly few people know about ZOHO -- a web-based business suite of apps competitor who many reviewers over the past few years have said is superior to Google, product after product. And Zoho has so many more apps it's hard to believe how "unknown" they are, like great project management software, one of the best wiki software designs EVER, made for non-techie people... etc. If I recall, I think individual usage of all of Zoho's web apps is free.
HERE, from the ZOHO Business Suit forums, is the status of their sync system for Windows Mobile: http://forums.zoho.com/topic/mobile-sync
And a brief review, but tons of them if you want to explore further.
http://www.reviewsaurus.com/web-applications-reviews/zoho-works-on-your-windows-mobile-too/
quicksite said:
"Thank you for calling Microsoft Innovation Center Support Line, all of our agents are busy helping other customers. For faster service please see Android OS..."
Just a joke to start the day.
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Lol... I love WM. But its so annoying to see so many companies and web services making great iphone and android apps while completely ignoring windows mobile.
I am not certain your exact needs, but I want to put two things in front of you, in case you are not familiar with:
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Thanks!
I've all ready looked at goosync. If I had to pay I'd much rather go for toodledo + nuevasync or RTM. They're both around $25 a month.
I'm fairly familiar with zoho, actually. I've had an account almost since they opened shop and they actually sponsored a competition at my old college (I did my undergrad in india, which is where I am from).
They haven't implemented their sync system yet.. so I am still holding out... but I will probably shift when they get it all working.
For now I am looking at the lotuslive solution posted above - It looks promising.
I only wish myphone had a better interface - more ajax and a greater emphasis on content management rather than just backup (integration with windows live wouldn't hurt either...)
Thanks anyways.
I'm sure someone will find all this very useful...
LOOK AT ME! COMPLETELY off-topic post!
charge1313 said:
Lol... I love WM. But its so annoying to see so many companies and web services making great iphone and android apps while completely ignoring windows mobile.
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I know, but in all fairness, where's the incentive? WM 7 already a year behind competition, pretty much even acknowledged by Ballmer, was due, finally, Feb 2010. Months after Android hit warp speed in October and then became the CHristmas, New Year's and now January story with Nexus One, even February is BEHIND significantly... but nobody needs to be reminded of that here.
I only recently switched to Android when i bought the HTC hero in early December-- after 5 years with WM on my old T-mobile Wing (Herald) and prior to that my T-Mobile MDA. Both were unusable til I discovered, then hung out in, XDA community 3+ years ago. With the great ROM chefs and app developers here, they single-handedly kept WM alive by making the whole OS and app suites finger friendly and fast -- providing great options instead of iphone for those who got wowed by the instant success (and obviousness once Apple made it happen) of finger-navigable touchscreens.
Point being, now WM 7 slipped to June 2010, and from twitter feeds I subscribe to, possibly now not even til September 2010!
Prob in that same time frame, Google will have released not just the Nexus Two phone (possibly the Motorola Shadow - a phone with slide down keyboard, kind of like the Pre), but maybe even a Nexus Three phone, and god only knows what kind of updates to Android.
I don't really much care what Apple does in this realm because I hate AT&T so badly that even if Apple does indeed revamp the iphone form factor and architecture and get it up to speed with real multi-tasking, Apple shall remain punished by me for making their exclusive deal with the devil. (Believe it or not, some consumers still vote against really bad corporate decisions with pocket book). I am an Apple user in the desktop/laptop realm, but could care less about the iphone... but even THEY are moving forward in this Jan-September timeframe. Everyone knows Apple refreshes their lines every 3 years or so, and they make big leaps, not small ones.
I have no doubt WM 7 will be a good OS, I really believe it WILL be -- and it better be -- or for sure it would, by September, be game over for Windows Mobile if they launch an already late OS rethink that, upon finally launching, doesn't wow the pants off the competition and consumers. I suspect it will follow the UI experience of the Zune HD, which I think has been very good, with a very interesting UI concept of Zooming-in deeply into a subject matter area, like Music, and zooming out with a kind of 3D effect of moving in space behind the screen surface. (Hmm, looks like I am not the only one who thinks so -- but this article at MobileTechWorld also trashes the Russian blogger who claims to have seen it in action)
Add this additional news to the mix and there are slimmer and slimmer reasons why someone would want to stick with WM and take that risk. (HTC has now shipped to stores its capacitive screen stylus -- puncturing yet another hole in the "must have windows mobile to work with mobile phone spreadsheets" desperation about why the world still NEEDS windows mobile.)
The final argument of course is "anyone serious about running business apps" and "anyone whose corporate IT dept requires Microsoft Exchange server compatibility will NEED to run windows mobile"... I have to say to anyone raising those arguments: PROVE IT. Which apps exactly can only run on WM... maybe yes, there is a valid case to be made. But the generalization, to me, is no longer valid -- in the same way 15 years ago people said apple could never be taken seriously in a business environment because it doesn;t run MS Office -- then of course it did, and that argument became moot.
I'm not acting all smug about my own shift to Android -- becasue there are for SURE some significant things I miss from my WM phone which I had 5 years ago -- jotting down notes using a stylus, or drawing a quick sketch to show someone an idea, or graphical illustration... I also miss the damn up-down-left-right D-pad, which is way way WAY better than the trackball on most android devices other than Sane Samsung who preserved the D-pad... wait come to think of it, so did Motorola on both their Oct-Nov-Dec new phones.
I'm just saying that in addition to my actually loving that Hero phone, and the HTC senseUI (which, yes, can & does run on WM as well), that I just don't feel like I have anything to lose by jettisoning WM for good... sorry to say.
BUT -- if they have good reason to be so late with WM 7, because it;s filled with game-changing surprises*, then I will stuff all these words into my mouth and eat them. (*And that means more than cute fun facebook-headed people poking at Excel-headed people)
Now wait, what were we talking about? oh yes.
I've all ready looked at OGGsync. If I had to pay I'd much rather go for toodledo + nuevasync or RTM. They're both around $25 a month.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two things: I regret even bringing it up, because I hadn't read your post carefully -- but only read the headline... So I missed the boat by miles because once i read the post you said clearly: NO OUTLOOK! and NO FEES!
Still, just to clarify, OGGsync is $30/year, not month. And I guess my question is, what about Google Sync? If I recall, once I synced all my WM pocket Outlook contacts to big bro Outlook on my PC, then synced all those to Gmail, then I was able to, i am pretty sure, sync my WM pocket outlook with Google Sync, using Google Calendar -- which I'd already been using for past 3 years, abandoning Outlook (like you) all together.
I'm fairly familiar with zoho, actually. I've had an account almost since they opened shop... I'm sure someone will find all this very useful...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never switched to Zoho, but I prob would if I didn't work for self, and someone else just took care of moving all my stuff there and just making it happen for me!
good luck with lotus, hope it works. sorry for my off-topic editorial ....
^^ Lol. I can't help but laugh. I empathise with you so much!
quicksite said:
I only recently switched to Android when i bought the HTC hero in early December-- after 5 years with WM on my old T-mobile Wing (Herald) and prior to that my T-Mobile MDA. Both were unusable til I discovered, then hung out in, XDA community 3+ years ago. With the great ROM chefs and app developers here, they single-handedly kept WM alive by making the whole OS and app suites finger friendly and fast -- providing great options instead of iphone for those who got wowed by the instant success (and obviousness once Apple made it happen) of finger-navigable touchscreens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what? Personally, I don't like the whole finger-friendly thing. I want speed and capability and information density. I don't care how easy it is to get from A to Z - I want to get there fast and effectively even if the learning curve is steep. Which is why I thought that the pinacle of windows mobile was the Axim X51 - It was fast and powerful and had features that outclass many of today's handsets.
6.5 was a let down - it actually killed functionality while giving me nothing. Titanium is the best example of this - Its nice to look at but it the end, it has less info per screen than the old home, takes longer to work with and is MUCH less configurable.
My current windows phone is a samsung jack. Its windows mobile standard. And IMO its the best mobile OS out there now. Except for one single thing - the lack of damn apps.
You'd think there would be thousands of apps considering the number of blackjacks out there but nooooo...
Windows mobile is the (Or should have been) the no-nonsense OS. It should be crazy configurable if you want it to be but just extremly usable if you're not into all that - a system that syncs with anything, works with every service and is in general the best PDA man has yet conceived. Sadly it isn't there any more..
Now wait, what were we talking about? oh yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol.. its ok. I've gone on my own WM rants all too often. I know exactly where you are coming from.
[/I][/B] If I recall, once I synced all my WM pocket Outlook contacts to big bro Outlook on my PC, then synced all those to Gmail, then I was able to, i am pretty sure, sync my WM pocket outlook with Google Sync, using Google Calendar -- which I'd already been using for past 3 years, abandoning Outlook (like you) all together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google sync doesn't support tasks. Otherwise I'd use it. I use soocial for my contacts, gcal (through nuevasync) for my calendar and now I guess lotus for my tasks - remarkably inelegant but I guess I have little choice.
I have never switched to Zoho, but I prob would if I didn't work for self, and someone else just took care of moving all my stuff there and just making it happen for me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am uncomfortable with having all my stuff in the cloud -I firmly believe that cloud services can only complement local services.. something like the office live solution. Tasks and calendar are something else - mostly because my choices are so limited
good luck with lotus, hope it works. sorry for my off-topic editorial ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. Thanks. And absolutely zero hard feelings...
I learned a lot from you on this thread, though i didn't help you at all
I hear you re information per screen, information density
Okay, i admit that mny T-mobile wing running WM 6.1 with custom rom from Ivan here at XDA just kicked ass, and still does. Funny but it has better version of google maps than google maps on my hero android phone.. i surely don't get that.
For me, having that stylus tucked in, avail at moment's need, AND using finger nav is best of all worlds. in the car, with my t-mobile wing mounted, i could actually safely make a call... but without finger nav, i'd crash and kill self with just a stylus and tiny target. so we'll agree that it all boils down to: what are your purposes for the device... all of them. in all conditions...
only then are comparisons valid. if any phone meets all a user's needs, then it's the best phone period for that person.
thanks again,
so i guess you won't be getting the Nexus Two any time soon, huh?
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quicksite said:
For me, having that stylus tucked in, avail at moment's need, AND using finger nav is best of all worlds. in the car, with my t-mobile wing mounted, i could actually safely make a call... but without finger nav, i'd crash and kill self with just a stylus and tiny target. so we'll agree that it all boils down to: what are your purposes for the device... all of them. in all conditions...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My old gene had a D-Pad. And WM 6.1 was VERY D-Pad friendly. If I ever needed to use the phone one-handed I just used to use the D-Pad and the softkeys.
The modern WM phones lack this too (hence my statement of only WM standard rocking now)
only then are comparisons valid. if any phone meets all a user's needs, then it's the best phone period for that person.
thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
,
Very true. In the end, I want my phone to help me get things done, not as an entertainment device or anything else. Hence my statement about WM standard rocking. Copilot live, for example, has a great interface - its actually faster than using a touchscreen and needs less involvement.
so i guess you won't be getting the Nexus Two any time soon, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a student in the US without and aid. Hence no. Not a chance in hell unless I get a ton of cash.
I suspect my next phone will be WM7 (my Jack's contract is only a few months old).. leaves plenty of time for WM 7 to release and for a decent app market to develop.
I hope.
Or else I'll go for whichever android device I can find (I need multitasking - this basically kills the Iphone)
I feel i am compelled to respond to a nit with a nit , hah ha. re:
charge1313 said:
My old gene had a D-Pad. And WM 6.1 was VERY D-Pad friendly. If I ever needed to use the phone one-handed I just used to use the D-Pad and the softkeys. The modern WM phones lack this too (hence my statement of only WM standard rocking now)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here again i agree. My T-Mobile Wing's hard key layout and D-pad has been the most ergonomically useful and hence fastest phone to use of any i have ever used in stores, trying out friends' stuff, etc.
I had its predecessor, the MDA, and the Wing completely became an ergonomic pleasure to use. whether I used my left hand or my right hand, the additional hard keys on sides of the phone, plus the bottom of the phone, hit exactly in the right spots re hands, finger, thumbs. And though it was mostly a remake of the MDA (both HTC phones), the Wing nailed it for me where the MDA was, pardon the expression, a piece of crap for me, though also my first touchscreen phone.
So, once again i hear ya re the relative efficiences of using dpad and dedicated hard keys that can be reassignable. My "OK" button map mapped to the top right of the phone where the defauilt Comm Manager button was -- and when holding in my left hand, my middle finger was right there on it. Same finger could slide down just a bit to hit the other dedicated button, which i mapped to voice recorder, since I recorded audio notes frequenty.
My thumb was on the camera button which i remapped to Start menu. Sliding my thumb down to the D-pad was smooth, no bumps at all, and instant recognitoon even in the dark what the functions were and so easy to press in quad direction, then click enter/center. Similarly the ergonomic design of the Call button and end button, and the 2 additional keys around each, was just the height of ergonomic perfection. No way of mistaking which key was which, yet a slight shift in any direction and the desired key was hit perpectly, and not requiring a lot ofpressure.. just the right amount, plus tactile feedback with hardware clicks for certainty of entry. The okay button doen there by the end call i remapped to "Today", which always made home screen 1-click away for times when an app didn't have an easy-access close-button.
Im used WKtask -- which not enough people use in my view.. one of thebest UI utilities besides QuickMenu... my thumb could easily arc to top of the taskbar to tap an icon to switch tasks, or press-hold to end any app, or minimize any app, thus guiving me extra manual control over memory management, and closing apps, or quickly switching to them.
Sliding out the keyboard was so simple because the left fingers wrapped around the device were already positiioned to push the top screen to reveal the keyboard. Everyuthing fit in the hand perfectly...
Which leads to my last comment... I love my new HTC Hero for its size and ergonomics.. I have not used yet some of these new larger screen devices but if the WING and the HERO fit perfectly into my hand in its natural resting position of fingers, then it seems logical to guess that larger device require a wider grasp -- even if miniscule, which activates all sort of other micro-muscles in fingers, thumb, and palm of hand --
I am guessing there will be not one person who will ever fess up that a larger device results in some slight or more-than-slight greater muscular fatigue of the hand and repetitive stress.
So even though you're focus is on WM6 - THE KING! -- my focus is on how HTC learned to optimize the controls of WM6, making the WING, for example, a phenomenal exmaple of product design.
Now since lots of HTC devices held similar footprimnts, maybe lots of HTC devices had the same kind of ergonomic optimization as the WING, prob so.
I can just speak to the wing.... So, there is no way I would credit WM alone for the usability "sweet spot" you have liked. Without great product design, you'd have tossed your phone in the trash long ago. We'll never know that for sure, so I can't bet you on it. But i would if i could.
thanks again for a truly rare discussion about human usability vs whiz-bang. Way too little of the former occupies this site, way more the latter dominates the site.
Try the my Funambol service - http://my.funambol.com , free
I wish the mods could SPLIT this thread - to preserve the "future of WM"
The off-topic discussion here was prob of more use than the initial intent by charge1313. And even though there have been many many MANY threads on WM's survivability as a player platform, this discussion moved to hardware as well, and to the trend of more and more elimination of hardware buttons placed strategically around the device's to enable your fingers to control many things besides the screen.
just my opinion ... but I have many of them .. so i am sure the world is fine without a split thread
Here again i agree. My T-Mobile Wing's hard key layout and D-pad has been the most ergonomically useful and hence fastest phone to use of any i have ever used in stores, trying out friends' stuff, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The same can be said of my gene. With a custom 6.1 rom (for here, of course) it was the fastest smartphone anyone I knew had. Despite having a lousey 200mghz processor and next to no ram. Of course, thats also because I ran it overclocked to 247 Mghz.
It had a ton of configurable keys - most of them configured to do a whole series of context based events via mortscript.
So, once again i hear ya re the relative efficiences of using dpad and dedicated hard keys that can be reassignable. My "OK" button map mapped to the top right of the phone where the defauilt Comm Manager button was -- and when holding in my left hand, my middle finger was right there on it. Same finger could slide down just a bit to hit the other dedicated button, which i mapped to voice recorder, since I recorded audio notes frequenty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neat. Did you use mortscript?
My thumb was on the camera button which i remapped to Start menu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly like my gene. Except there I had it mapped to a task manager.
Boy, did they know how to build phones back in the day.
Im used WKtask -- which not enough people use in my view.. one of thebest UI utilities besides QuickMenu... my thumb could easily arc to top of the taskbar to tap an icon to switch tasks, or press-hold to end any app, or minimize any app, thus guiving me extra manual control over memory management, and closing apps, or quickly switching to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used both - several of my favorite roms actually came with WKtask by default. But in the end I found that simply using the default 6.1 task manager was the lightest and the best.
Still, I've jumped back and forth between using WKtask, Quickmenu etc enough times to know how awesome they were.
And this, again, brings me back to why my jack rocks. I can open up a site or an app from the home screen and actually do something useful (like, say, check my tasks on agenda one) faster than an android device (htc dream) or an ipod touch/iphone.
Without great product design, you'd have tossed your phone in the trash long ago. We'll never know that for sure, so I can't bet you on it. But i would if i could.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that. HTC's design was brilliant. And so was Samsung's with the blackjacks and the jack. IMO the current crop of WM devices are a result of misguided logic. Microsoft and HTC have looked at the success of the iphone and created a hybrid system which lacks the strengths of either. Thats their failing - trying to do something they were never good while ignoring their awesome lead in actual productivity and flexibility.
Seriously, take a dell axim and see how well you can do stuff with it. I bet if microsoft had put their efforts into making WM 7 the natural progression of the WM series (exclude 6.5 please) it would be out by now and a device like the touch pro would completely kick the iphone in terms of general usage.
The off-topic discussion here was prob of more use than the initial intent by charge1313. And even though there have been many many MANY threads on WM's survivability as a player platform, this discussion moved to hardware as well, and to the trend of more and more elimination of hardware buttons placed strategically around the device's to enable your fingers to control many things besides the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I won't argue against this. The original intent of this thread has largely been satisfied.
I've found an exchange class solution for my needs
If the mods think its sensible to split this thread then please do so..
I'm interested to know how many people would like to see a WisBar Advance Desktop build for Android. Just let me know. Thanks!
+1
I think WAD was a very cool launcher in WMobile
Fantastic loved it on win mob
Sent from my Pulse Mini using Tapatalk
I loved wisbar!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
Well, so far it's looking like there's at least a little interest. I'll get started.
Count me in a interested. Never ran wm without it!
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Its funny that you mention it. I just visited the wisbar forums thinking there may be something about it coming to android. Before switching to android I had purchased and used Wisbar and WAD. As good as WAD for WM was, it just never really worked perfectly. And thats only because of the limitation of WM and the hardware not WAD itself.
I think android is the perfect platform that would be ready to embrace WAD. I will be looking forward to using it in the future I think WAD for android will be what the long term goals of WAD for WM had striven for.
I'm glad that you finally decide to make an android version of WAD2(I've ask for that a long time ago in your forum).
I hope that this best wm UI will come on android devices very soon.
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I use WAD (now 2) since a long time. I could not do without it. It is the only reason to stay at WM6.x.
If there would bei WAD2 for Android, it would be great and I think I would change over to Android too
Interestng...I also used WAD when I had a PPC device. I would be interested too.
I would be interested too... On WinMo Wisbar Advanced Desktop was amazing!
Thank you everyone for your interest. I've been doing some thinking about this as it will be a major step for me as I've been a long-time supporter of Windows Mobile (I've been around since PPC2000).
Given how powerful Android is, I can only think of one UI limitation at the moment: since there's no taskbar with an ever-present start menu, I'll have to make the app-drawer/launcher available on every page. At least, that's probably the best way to go right now unless someone has a different opinion/preference.
Another thing I was thinkg about: do you want a variable number of pages (being added through Menu > Add Page) or should I add a preference like some other launchers have to specify the number of pages?
These are very good news.
I can't wait to be able to use WAD again. I just hope that HTC Tattoo will be supported.
As for pages, I prefer the way of wm WAD2(pages added via menu).
So, I'm thinking about approaching this from a different direction than I did with Windows Mobile.
The first major change is I'm thinking about using a scripting language to describe how things are laid out and how they behave rather than just dragging and dropping items. The reason is two-fold:
1) This will give the script designer more control about how things look and how they work.
2) We won't run into the problem of shortcuts that open apps and widgets that are not installed on someone else's device (a major shortcoming of WAD2's).
So, the language would say something like: create a folder at x, y. This "button" will open it and this button will close it. You would also be able to specify an area where shortcuts could be added, such as "create a shortcut grid at x, y", but you would not be able to specify the shortcuts (this would be left up to the user who is using your theme).
One downside of this is that the layouts would have to be created on the desktop and then uploaded to your phone.
The other downside is that this would severely hamper the ability to launch specific apps using scripts. But, this is really a limitation of Android itself as, unlike Windows Mobile, not every device comes with the same core set of apps. And, for the apps that are included in most devices (such as the calendar), the intents to launch them may vary depending on the OS version (i.e. the calendar changed in between Eclair and Froyo).
I'm just brainstorming here. If anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to let me know. Right now I'm in the planning stages to see how close I can keep it to Windows Mobile, but at the same time implement new technologies in order to make it the most robust launcher around.
hells yeah man!!! i used it on my tilt for a while.....i think its ironic how similar android really is to winmo...just more refined but very similar in the idea
I found this thread quite late but i can just say +1. =)
I would really like to see Wisbar Adv Desktop on Android. Hope you are making good progress
I just finished asking your to offer support for android on your forums.
Feel free to plus one over too, guys.
http://forum.lakeridgesoftware.com/showthread.php?p=106717#post106717
See it for the first time. +100000
I used to love making themes!!
Sent from my X10i
Awesome. Back in the days WAD was one of the best applications for WM, I've always been impressed by how much one could do with it.
I like the idea of creating themes on the desktop and then uploading them to the phone, because creating themes has always been kind of difficult and work-intensive.
You can map the app drawer to the home button or you might even be able to implement the ability to create shortcuts that open the app drawer.
Concerning the number of homescreens, I think Menu > Add Page is a bit more convenient and less likely to mess things up (since removing non-empty home screens could create issues, as it did with some launchers).
chmckay said:
Thank you everyone for your interest. I've been doing some thinking about this as it will be a major step for me as I've been a long-time supporter of Windows Mobile (I've been around since PPC2000).
Given how powerful Android is, I can only think of one UI limitation at the moment: since there's no taskbar with an ever-present start menu, I'll have to make the app-drawer/launcher available on every page. At least, that's probably the best way to go right now unless someone has a different opinion/preference.
Another thing I was thinkg about: do you want a variable number of pages (being added through Menu > Add Page) or should I add a preference like some other launchers have to specify the number of pages?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just stumbled over this.... is it for real?
WAS with all the functionality will be ported over to Android? This will be the killer app taking all other launchers / home screen apps out of biz.
I am here to betatest!
chmckay said:
So, I'm thinking about approaching this from a different direction than I did with Windows Mobile.
The first major change is I'm thinking about using a scripting language to describe how things are laid out and how they behave rather than just dragging and dropping items. The reason is two-fold:
1) This will give the script designer more control about how things look and how they work.
2) We won't run into the problem of shortcuts that open apps and widgets that are not installed on someone else's device (a major shortcoming of WAD2's).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully you can get the HTC Sense Widgets to work as well at least on HTC devices where this should not be a violation of copyright laws. I will gladly offer to borrow you a european HTC Desire for testing purposes if that is of any help.
I second your notiong of requiring a script language, but of course it would take one that is not laid out for programmers but also still understandable for regular designers. Search around here in the Forum for SlickUI and KiteUI, both which are still deep in the "maybe wel will do this stage" for some decent ideas on how people imagine their ideal design, and therefore gfgiving you an idea how much flexibility your framework needs.
Things that should really be in the to-do-list: radial icon menus. That means you assign say 6-8 icons to a WAD icon placed on the homescreen, upon tapping this the home screen blurs and the assigned icons circle around the pushed icon. This is a terrific way to organize similar apps IMO, much better looking than the folder blocks we have gotten used to.
WAD actually was one reason I found it very hard to aprt with my WM phone. Thie level of adustability had not been reached before. People who do not know what the heck I am creaming my pants about should use google image search for "wisbar advance desktop". It was a pure naked framework, allowing beasically every freedom any designer could wish / hope for.
Anotherr important thing to note is the touch features which have come quite a long way since WM6.5. You would need to extend the framework in order to allow rotating dials for menu control, swipe movements for changing screen left to right and vice versa.
If you could actually manage to pull the old stunt where you made an app run constantly on a "homescreen" it would be awesome. Imagine 3-5-7-whatnot screen with widgets laid out side by side, but a simple upward stroke brings you into the already preloaded browser (from which you return with the back key into the regular homescreen).
God, I am bursting with ideas.
As I said, I will beat test all days long if you need someone.
So, the language would say something like: create a folder at x, y. This "button" will open it and this button will close it. You would also be able to specify an area where shortcuts could be added, such as "create a shortcut grid at x, y", but you would not be able to specify the shortcuts (this would be left up to the user who is using your theme).
One downside of this is that the layouts would have to be created on the desktop and then uploaded to your phone.
The other downside is that this would severely hamper the ability to launch specific apps using scripts. But, this is really a limitation of Android itself as, unlike Windows Mobile, not every device comes with the same core set of apps. And, for the apps that are included in most devices (such as the calendar), the intents to launch them may vary depending on the OS version (i.e. the calendar changed in between Eclair and Froyo).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just brainstorming here. If anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to let me know. Right now I'm in the planning stages to see how close I can keep it to Windows Mobile, but at the same time implement new technologies in order to make it the most robust launcher around.[/QUOTE]
#Pinch to zoom and similar gestures will go a long way in allowing to extend the possibilites and ways the users can interact with the interface. Instead of an always visible appdrawer you could just use a gesture predefined that will launch the app drawer
Should we make a thread where all former WAD users and upcoming UI design freaks post their wishlists?