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How optimised is WM6.5 for finger use?

My understanding is that while there is some optimisation for finger use in WM6.5, there are other parts of the OS that are still best suited to a stylus. For example accurately selecting text in Word, or selecting a range of cells in Excel.
One of the reasons Apple took so long to come out with copy/paste in the UI is because they knew they had to make it work with a fat finger.
My point is that I wonder how wise it is to combine a capacitive screen with WM6.5 on the Leo. I'm sure it will work fine with the basic stuff, particularly in TF3D applications. However, if I can't easily use a finger for everything, then it's going to be a real pain either struggling to touch accurately with a finger or carrying around a capacitive stylus that I'll just lose after a couple of days.
What do you reckon?

How optimised? The short answer is "not very". By default, the WM6.5 finger-friendliness is only skin deep. A few clicks and you'll quickly find yourself back at the ancient ugly stylus-designed interface from 2002.
TF3D makes things much, much nicer, but no matter how much you customise WM, there are many applications designed only for stylus use. Pocket Informant, for example, is a very useful PIM - but is difficult to use with only fingers. Many, many pieces of third-party software out there are the same. Really only a few applications are truly designed for fingers rather than stylus.
This is a problem that WM can't really fix. It's just a byproduct of the OS's age - it's been around in various forms since at least 2000. For the most part, applications written 5 to 10 years ago still work on modern WM devices. This is compounded by the fact that modern WM phones are still shipping with styluses.
I suppose if WM7 requires finger-friendly support, then things will improve considerably from third-party software companies. But until then, things are pretty dire.

microsoft fired their director for windows mobile and is putting a fire under its mobile division's ass to make winmo7 a homerun. microsoft isnt sleeping on this anymore, expect big things next year for windows mobile...

I have a Touch Pro2 running a 6.5 ROM and I actually find that, in combination with the large WVGA screen, I rarely need the stylus even in applications made for previous versions of WM. Though TouchFLO helps, even when disabled I can still navigate without a stylus. However, occasionally finger precision isn't enough and I need the stylus, but for the most part, 6.5 is actually pretty finger friendly.
However, the 6.5 Build can make a huge difference with how finger friendly the ROM is, so it's not terribly accurate to say that all 6.5 builds are finger friendly when the features of different builds are so diverse.

Windows 6.5? Not very. Practically not at all. The outside is different but the insides are almost identical to 6.1
HOWEVER 6.5.1 is VERY finger friendly. There is a lot of difference and you can expect a lot more finger friendliness with the future builds of windows mobile.

I am really looking forward for more detailed reviews about Leo, especially working with tiny UI elements, which are still there in WM 6.5. Actually, the changes of 6.5 are minor and it is not nearly as touch optimized OS. And in all of this hype about Leo no one talks about how we are going to work without stylus on this device. There already are a couple previews and some videos with a lot of "wow’s" about the first capacitive screen with multi-touch zoom in WM, but no any word or demo about using Excel or some other application that has many small buttons or things to click, drag and move. And aren't exactly these apps the real power of WM not the useless fancy weather effects, beautiful scrolling gallery (out of use for more than 20 pics) or multi-touch zoom only in few apps? I am not sure if the capacitive screen is an advantage or at least not for Windows. Nevertheless, soon we’ll see if I’m wrong (hope I am ).

martoto said:
And in all of this hype about Leo no one talks about how we are going to work without stylus on this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well with my current 2.8" screen (Touch Pro) I genuinely can't remember the last time I had to get the stylus out to do anything. Moving to a device with over 2x the screen size, I can't see there being a big problem. Sure I'll be using more of my finger and less of the nail, but a >2x bigger screen should more than compensate for that!
That said, resistive is still probably going to be the technology of choice for smaller screens, especially since for a while at least MS plan for smaller(/cheaper) devices to stick with 6.x instead of 7.
As for 6.5's general finger-friendliness, it's ahead of 6.1 in some places but the difference isn't that big. 6.5.x is where the action is on that front, and at least we enthusiasts will be making the most of that, even if the average buyer won't be. Well, we'll be making the most of it until we first get the v7 leaks

mr_Ray said:
Well with my current 2.8" screen (Touch Pro) I genuinely can't remember the last time I had to get the stylus out to do anything. Moving to a device with over 2x the screen size, I can't see there being a big problem. Sure I'll be using more of my finger and less of the nail, but a >2x bigger screen should more than compensate for that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't use a nail at all on a capacitive screen, only skin.
I have a Touch Pro2 (3.6" screen) and I have to say that I use the stylus all the time - Opera 9.5 would be totally unuseable without it, and any time you start using a Windows app with radio buttons and checkboxes, the stylus is far easier. That would even more true if I couldn't use a fingernail for added accuracy compared to a finger. It remains to be seen how much difference WM6.5 and production Opera 9.7 make to that.

I for one, just don't know what Microsoft is doing with this half arsed attempt of a finger friendly OS,
They are shipping 6.5.....the OS looks like one of the worst put together it looks very very rushed (we know its not...they've had more than enough time)
HTC with thier TouchFlo is a far more elegant solution.
Microsoft can stick 6.5 where the sun don't shine....
No such thing as a finger friendly Microsoft OS...yet

mr_Ray said:
Well with my current 2.8" screen (Touch Pro) I genuinely can't remember the last time I had to get the stylus out to do anything. ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A very simple example with app that every WM has - the mobile Excel. Open a new file and try to change the row height without using a stylus or a nail. It is possible but not near as easy, isn’t it? On a twice bigger screen, the row border will be almost the same thickness. So here a bigger screen won't help. Just imagine that you need to work with a similar interface every day. Now, tell me is there anything that can be done with capacitive screen but cannot with resistive? Don't get me wrong, I know that if you work only with fingers, capacitive screens are far better. But here we have windows mobile, and for these users that often leave the TouchFlo to use the true power of windows, the lack of possibility of precise pointing on the screen could be a big issue.

martoto said:
A very simple example with app that every WM has - the mobile Excel. Open a new file and try to change the row height without using a stylus or a nail. It is possible but not near as easy, isn’t it? On a twice bigger screen, the row border will be almost the same thickness. So here a bigger screen won't help. Just imagine that you need to work with a similar interface every day. Now, tell me is there anything that can be done with capacitive screen but cannot with resistive? Don't get me wrong, I know that if you work only with fingers, capacitive screens are far better. But here we have windows mobile, and for these users that often leave the TouchFlo to use the true power of windows, the lack of possibility of precise pointing on the screen could be a big issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never claimed that my usage was a template for every other person on the planet, and would never think to do so. For *me* capacitive has a few advantages over resistive, and likewise a few disadvantages, it pretty much comes out as a wash. I'd stil be as happy with the HD2 if it had a resistive screen.
My use of Excel on the go is purely simple data entry or just viewing. There are also other ways to resize than clicking on and dragging a line a pixel or two wide. I also recognise there are many people who would find such things infuriatin with *their* usage patterns, applications, and habits.
This whole issue really highlights Microsoft's biggest issue in Windows Mobi... er Windows Phone today. It's a stylus-based PDA OS trying to be a finger-based phone OS. The heritage is based entirely in yesterday's PDAs - where it was fantastic for the job and thrashed PalmOS in the marketplace.
However there's been a gradual change in usage of the OS from PDAs to phones, and the underlying systems just haven't adapted to the changes. The UI today is much the same as it was in 2002. If you want your OS on a modern smartphone where people want to pull their phone out of their pocket and tap and slide with their fingers, you just can't get away with an interface and screen tech from a 2002 PDA.
Be one or the other - create a side branch for the dwindling userbase who want a PDA or PDA/phone if you have to - but the core of the OS itself if you want it on a phone - just has to adapt to survive.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. It seems to me that if WM6.5 is not fully optimized for finger use, which it's not, then HTC really shouldn't combine it with a capacitive screen. Simple as that.

Moandal said:
Thanks for everyone's thoughts. It seems to me that if WM6.5 is not fully optimized for finger use, which it's not, then HTC really shouldn't combine it with a capacitive screen. Simple as that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that's a large part of the reason for TouchFLO/Sense UI, of course; WM6.5 by itself isn't sufficiently finger-friendly, but with the HD2's customised UI on top of it, it is (in HTC's opinion, anyway).

But is it just where the balance of their expertise and development lies? One looks at the HTC Leo and it looks like an android device.....lots of hardware supported under Android, but not under WM.....and the whole thing kludged together to work on an operating system with built in short term obsolescence.
It seems to me that we are in a transition period. Hardware too sophisticated for WM 6.5, but development of WM7 and Android not yet complete.
I think WM is a dead duck until (and maybe beyond) WM7, and the inroads that other systems can make between now and it's release will probably give an indication of the future direction of mass market smartphones.
Given the apparent inability of Microsoft to deliver a satisfactory platform for ordinary users and developers alike, and Androids success in doing exactly that (although still early days), I see it going only one way for the mass market.
I've bought my last WM phone (I think). It was Blackstone.

in short like only 1 or 2 have already said.... 6.5 is not
6.5.1 [aka towards wm7] is very much finger optimised.
if u guys are not clear, then only the versions which have start buttons on bottom are 6.5.1 and can be used with one hand. 6.5 its a mixed bag and u have to use both hands sometimes.

atifsh said:
in short like only 1 or 2 have already said.... 6.5 is not
6.5.1 [aka towards wm7] is very much finger optimised.
if u guys are not clear, then only the versions which have start buttons on bottom are 6.5.1 and can be used with one hand. 6.5 its a mixed bag and u have to use both hands sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's the big difference between 6.5 and 6.5.1 then? I wouldn't have though a 0.0.1 version change would be much different. Also which version does the HD2 have? The specs I've seen say it's got 6.5.

Windows has really lost it's way. They need to pick a path tha makes sense and stick to it.
The way I see it there are two camps. the iPhone is for entertainment and the blackberry is more business oriented. Why they are going after the iPhone is beyond me. The pocketpc was an awesome business tool and they are trying to evolve it into an iPhone.
Look at Blackberry, most of their phones have no touch screen. They have a trackball! Yikes! But that works for business...
I routinely use my phone for powerpoint presentation, I use excel, I am an original PPC user and they are making the product stylus unfriendly and removing the hardware buttons...
I have the TP2 and I would trade in the touch screen for a scroll wheel, and a d-pad...
I don't think Windows can win against the iphone. They should go after blackberry...

I think there's 2 things here.
Windows Mobile as an OS needs a lot of work IMO. The current hardware is so capable but still windows manages to be sluggish at times. This needs to be fixed, it should be rewritten for the ground up for the more capable modern hardware, better resource management, using all resources to make the thing go as smooth as possible.
Then for the interface ... well ... it's all in the name 'Pocket PC'. It's like a small computer, it even has a startmenu etc... that's how it was build. Devices changed though, and now we need finger friendly interface with eye candy and 3D.
Let's hope that Windows Phone 7 will be as good and revolutionary as Windows 7 for desktop. And let's hope that we won't have to buy a new phone to run it

Moandal said:
Also which version does the HD2 have? The specs I've seen say it's got 6.5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
6.5.1 hasn't been released yet and won't be until somewhere around February. I wouldn't be surprised if the HD2 gets a 6.5.1 upgrade, although there's no guarantee. If you don't mind installing a "cooked" ROM then it may be available sooner in beta form.

I had no trouble using my big nail-less thumbs on 6.1. WinMo 6.5 is better but not much different. You want something better install the 6.5.1 ROM. I've been using it for the last month and it's the most finger freindly version of WinMo.

Help me with Windows Mobile.

I have this marketing class and my group is deciding to create an advertising for WM7. I'm asking you guys for your opinion on why WM wasn't as successful as the iphone? What were the issues is because they only targeted professionals and developers. Also why do you think WM7 will be successful because its going be more commercial oriented too all?
I really appreciate any responses thanks a lot.

have a look here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=605

Though i'm looking for peoples opinon on why they didnt like old WM..

KidTech said:
I have this marketing class and my group is deciding to create an advertising for WM7. I'm asking you guys for your opinion on why WM wasn't as successful as the iphone? What were the issues is because they only targeted professionals and developers. Also why do you think WM7 will be successful because its going be more commercial oriented too all?
I really appreciate any responses thanks a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was it really less successful than iphone? windows mobile has been around way longer. I am guessing combining all of the devices with windows mobile vs how many devices with iphone os windows mobile will come out on top.

Very briefly:
1) Inconsistent performance and freeze prone. Sometimes it is okay for days, sometimes I feezes 20 times a day.
2) Slow. Microsoft was too relaxed when specifying minimum hardware requirements. Hardware vendor did'nt want to beef up the hardware because they try to keep the profit high.
3) Passive screen was no match for capacitive touch screen
4) User interface was based on desktop windows - not optimised for finger use.
5) Most programs have ugly user interface.
6) Many programs no longer works in newer ROM. Too easy to pirate the software so software vendors not motivated to update them.
7) iPhone's application store was a game changer. There are now 185,000 applications to choose from. MS was not able to put together something similar.
8) iPhone's firmware support and upgrade was impeccable. In contrast, window phone vendor almost never support any upgrade. XDA ROM cook had to do this job for them. I think it''s fair to say that without XDA, winmo would have died much much earlier. Ironically, MS didn't express any thanks to the people here. In fact they even tried to threaten them with legal action in the beginning.
9) iPhone has far better ecosystem of accessories such as speaker system that allows you to dock the iPhone.
10) User interface design of iPhone is hard to match. Not just because it uses passive screen and does pinch and zoom. Some applications also use true multitouch UI such as two or three fingers swipe and touch for webpage navigation, thus making it really enjoyable and easy for the user. The keyboard accuracy and forgiveness is great. Webpage scroll down for example, is 100% vertical without having any slight left or right movement. Size of controls, size of text, colors, are all done right. It is easy to accurately click on even extremely tiny link on webpage without being any need to be accurate. In short, everything feels right and works right.
11) MS took too long to react, and did too little too late. Worst, they became very confused.
I was honestly a person who absolutely wanted to stick with MS and had despite iPhone when it was first released. Who wanted a phone with no third party sofotware, right? But then, when things became to change, MS was still complacent, and arrogant. I always told myself that WM7 would blow iPhone away very very soon, so be patient. Then when WM7 was delayed again and again, and when I saw how crappy the new desktop in 6.5 was, I began to doubt the capability of MS and begin exploring iPhone. The other important factor that drove me away was when I saw MS not knowing the direction by pursuing WM7, Zune, and Pink phone simultenously, and that made me lose confidence in MS significantly.
Winmo does have things to its favour though. For example: You have the chance to select the style of phones exactly to your taste. E.g. having hardware keyboard, having hugh or smaller screens, having flash in the camera, having higher megapixel camera. HTC also did a splendid job with its TouchFlo/Sense UI, and in hiding the ugly OS as much as possible from the end user. Unfortunately, the moment you start using your applications, all the ugly UI come back in its full force. Also, Sense UI is not very customizable or flexible for the end user beyond just hiding the unwanted tabs. So, unless your requirements are more or less totally satisfied by the functions of features on TouchFlo/Sense, then you'll still be dealing with the old ugly stylus based user interface.
Winmo is considered to be extremely attractive to people with technical skills to cook/flash ROMs, and for people who wish to keep using the programs they had developed for it. For the ordinary users who just want to get things done easily, quickly, reliably and also with lots of fun, iPhone seems to be able to cater to what they were looking for better.
Hope this give you something to write about.
Cheers.

Any word on an upcoming HTC Keyboard Phone? Or an HTC event where they may announceit

I am just treading water now. I don't understand why keyboards are being dropped. I love the Fuze's keyboard. It could be improved on, of course, but keyboards like the Droids make me lose faith in anyone's ability to build a good keyboard.
HTC is the only one I have faith in. And with awesome phones like the HD2 and the Evo... I may not have a keyboard phone at all!! What to do!!
Someone give me good news!!

I have nightmares of a not so distant future where real keyboards on phones (and perhaps one day even computers) no longer exist. Even on this board, when reading posts of people going from the Touch Pro 2 to the HD2, and exclaiming how (because of the gigantic screen) they no longer need a real keyboard, I shed microscopic tears.
Even if one could become as proficient with a touchscreen keyboard as they would be with a real one, there is one thing that a real keyboard can do that a fake one will never be able to emulate. That is, the ability to not take up 3/4ths of the screen while using it.
I cannot imagine using SSH or RemoteDesktop with a touch keyboard that obscures half the screen every time I want to type something. I like using my phone as a mini computer, and I appreciate having the choice to control it without always smudging up the screen. Ever try scrolling through large webpages with a series of flicks? Yea, hooray for directional buttons!
Anyways enough rant, I have no idea what the next good keyboard phone from HTC will be. There's the HTC Tera, but that seems to be a stripped down Touch Pro 2 (lower screen res, similar CPU) which makes no sense. Something like an HD2 Pro would be boss, considering the surface area of that device, HTC could fit some serious keyage in there.
Until then you can pry my underpowered Touch Pro 2 out of my cold dead hands.

MooGoo said:
I have nightmares of a not so distant future where real keyboards on phones (and perhaps one day even computers) no longer exist. Even on this board, when reading posts of people going from the Touch Pro 2 to the HD2, and exclaiming how (because of the gigantic screen) they no longer need a real keyboard, I shed microscopic tears.
Even if one could become as proficient with a touchscreen keyboard as they would be with a real one, there is one thing that a real keyboard can do that a fake one will never be able to emulate. That is, the ability to not take up 3/4ths of the screen while using it.
I cannot imagine using SSH or RemoteDesktop with a touch keyboard that obscures half the screen every time I want to type something. I like using my phone as a mini computer, and I appreciate having the choice to control it without always smudging up the screen. Ever try scrolling through large webpages with a series of flicks? Yea, hooray for directional buttons!
Anyways enough rant, I have no idea what the next good keyboard phone from HTC will be. There's the HTC Tera, but that seems to be a stripped down Touch Pro 2 (lower screen res, similar CPU) which makes no sense. Something like an HD2 Pro would be boss, considering the surface area of that device, HTC could fit some serious keyage in there.
Until then you can pry my underpowered Touch Pro 2 out of my cold dead hands.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
get an lg expo.

Personally, I find the keyboard just easier to use, and it allows for you to use other applications (such as games, which I never play cause the Fuze is slow) or, even better, to scroll through contacts precisely when you have a phone without a front-facing D-Pad. Buttons are great. You just need those keys. I do like to use my phone as a mini-computer as well. I fell in love with the Sidekick when I was younger (never one one), the idea of a mini little IM station. I use my Fuze like that now, putting it next to my monitor when playing a game to direct the IMs to it.
Without a keyboard, it'll feel incomplete. Sure, an onscreen keyboard works, but it's slow. It's clumsy. You need to look at it when you type, and you can never get too far ahead because you are unsure of what you're hitting. My Fuze keyboard is second nature. I need a GOOD keyboard, as good as the Fuze or better.
And I'm not seeing one.

thehyecircus said:
I am just treading water now. I don't understand why keyboards are being dropped. I love the Fuze's keyboard. It could be improved on, of course, but keyboards like the Droids make me lose faith in anyone's ability to build a good keyboard.
HTC is the only one I have faith in. And with awesome phones like the HD2 and the Evo... I may not have a keyboard phone at all!! What to do!!
Someone give me good news!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I´m with you!
Only HTC I want and with keyboard.
Not any virtual keyboard can be compared to the REAL feeling of typing on REAL keys!!!
Tera should be launched in q3 o q4 this year but it´s not really an upgrade from actual great Rhodium
I would say, wait till q2 2011 and for sure we will see something it worth the upgrade.
I spent several years with Universal waiting for a great successor and got it hard to find something till I got Rhodium.
If you know something please share it here!
I´ll do the same
Posted by MooGoo
Even if one could become as proficient with a touchscreen keyboard as they would be with a real one, there is one thing that a real keyboard can do that a fake one will never be able to emulate. That is, the ability to not take up 3/4ths of the screen while using it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn right!!!!!!!!
----------------
See this reference thread regarding members asking for a keyboard device

I'm with you guys on this. I'm sure HTC will be releasing some sick phones once win7 hits

I feel the same. I hope that there will be HTC Android phone with keyboard in near future.
And NO i don't want Motorola, LG etc. I want HTC phone with xda support!
Typing on screen is super-slow-motion for me compared to hardware keyboard, probably because of the small screen. But i think good HW keyboard can beat any SW keyboard on any screen.

Keep it alive!!
Great words
Let´s keep alive and actual this thread!
Perhaps...who knows....somebody from HTC could be watching...

Well I don't know about HTC but DELL are rumored to release some great devices one with a keyboard that I bet will have XDA support. It's worth having a look at this monster.
http://www.gsmarena.com/dell_lightning-3280.php
I hope that DELL being a serious firm will not let us down everything on paper looks very promising.

thehyecircus said:
... I need a GOOD keyboard, as good as the Fuze or better.
And I'm not seeing one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Touch Pro 2 Keyboard > Touch Pro 1 Keyboard in all way, shape, & form.
In fact so far, the Touch Pro 2 is the most perfect phone keyboard that I have ever used...no comparisons anywhere else.
But I'm with the OP here, I want to see some new phones coming out w/ specs like modern phones with keyboards like my current phone. It shouldn't be too much to ask. Or else I'd be tempted to make a frankenphone of the HD2 w/ the touch pro 2 keyboard if possible!!!
Jason

myrandex said:
It shouldn't be too much to ask. Or else I'd be tempted to make a frankenphone of the HD2 w/ the touch pro 2 keyboard if possible!!!
Jason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be incredible, please DO IT!! Xda will create a new subsection for your frankenphone.
And while your at it, hax the scroll wheel and d-pad from the hermes onto your new phone of horrors, and maybe a couple lazzzars too.
I'm totally serious!

andes83 said:
Well I don't know about HTC but DELL are rumored to release some great devices one with a keyboard that I bet will have XDA support. It's worth having a look at this monster.
http://www.gsmarena.com/dell_lightning-3280.php
I hope that DELL being a serious firm will not let us down everything on paper looks very promising.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That ain't a real keyboard.
And the TP2 keyboard lacks buttons!! And has awkward placement on some keys!! I can use the TP1 so well that I see no reason to compromise. Now, a bigger screen, and the TP2 approach works.

orb3000 said:
I´m with you!
Only HTC I want and with keyboard.
Not any virtual keyboard can be compared to the REAL feeling of typing on REAL keys!!!
Tera should be launched in q3 o q4 this year but it´s not really an upgrade from actual great Rhodium
I would say, wait till q2 2011 and for sure we will see something it worth the upgrade.
I spent several years with Universal waiting for a great successor and got it hard to find something till I got Rhodium.
If you know something please share it here!
I´ll do the same
Damn right!!!!!!!!
----------------
See this reference thread regarding members asking for a keyboard device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey. I was checking out iPad in a local best buy one day, thinking about if it's going to replace my laptop, went back home, opened my lenovo X301, and caught my self thinking, that this kind of flip device, with keyboard on the bottom and screen on top, is a so freaking good NEW idea after all this tablets

alexsemi said:
Hey. I was checking out iPad in a local best buy one day, thinking about if it's going to replace my laptop, went back home, opened my lenovo X301, and caught my self thinking, that this kind of flip device, with keyboard on the bottom and screen on top, is a so freaking good NEW idea after all this tablets
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A real Tablet PC is a convertible, where the screen can flip down and go on top of the keyboard. They ALSO use digitizers so you can use a stylus and draw on the screen accurately (instead of this multi-touch capacitive crap designed for fingers.) That is the laptop I want. Not these tablet craps.
If it is designed for the internet, I NEED to type on it. That's all I do online.

Lenovo X200 Multi-Touch Tablet FTW. It could literally eat the iPad.

I upgraded from an HTC Dream to the Nexus One, thinking that I probably wouldn't miss the physical keyboard at all because I had been reading how people were pretty happy typing on their iPhones and whatnot. Although a physical keyboard is not necessary, I find that I make a lot of mistakes typing on a virtual keyboard. I've since switched to a BlackBerry and typing emails is so much worry-free now.

alexsemi said:
Hey. I was checking out iPad in a local best buy one day, thinking about if it's going to replace my laptop, went back home, opened my lenovo X301, and caught my self thinking, that this kind of flip device, with keyboard on the bottom and screen on top, is a so freaking good NEW idea after all this tablets
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah!
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myrandex said:
In fact so far, the Touch Pro 2 is the most perfect phone keyboard that I have ever used...no comparisons anywhere else.
Jason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, wholeheartedly. Of course, it's also my first keyboard phone. Regardless of that, I think I've already been spoiled rotten by the TP2's keyboard.
Actually, the Touch Pro 2 is my first smartphone ever. Being a noob to this phone tech level, I did what research I could, but one of the considerations back then that really locked me on to the TP2 was how great its keyboard looked. (This was before I knew what there was an XDA or that the phone could do other little neat things like host 3 different operating systems and other stuff.) I even dropped Sprint and signed on to T-Mobile to get the TP2 in its first week in the states. I love the phone, and I was dead on in my assessment of the keyboard.
It's awesome. I mean, the buttons are huge AND there's space between them like a real keyboard. (I looked at the Palm Pre for awhile and couldn't fathom how someone was supposed to actually press the keys on that tiny keyboard.) The keys are laid out in very efficient locations; again it's like a real keyboard. I actually like the TP2's keyboard layout better than the one on my ASUS netbook.
Yes, the row of number keys gets partially blocked by the screen when it's flipped up, and, I agree, it's annoying. But it's not crippling to me, and the problem is easily solved by just flipping the screen back to the flat position.
Here's the kicker, though. I can type probably 10x as fast on the keyboard than I can on the touchscreen. I'll usually use the touchscreen if I just need to type a few letters for something. I was using the touchscreen more recently, but it got annoying trying to accurately press the right keys quickly with my much larger fingers. So I switched back to keyboard, and now I'm flipping it out just about every time I need to type more than 6 letters or so.
I recall a probably-500-word email I recently had to mash out on my phone as fast as possible to get it to someone important. Keyboard all the way. And I managed to get it done and to the person just before they left for their appointment. Without a real keyboard, I wouldn't have even tried.
So, yeah, I agree with MooGoo above. Until another good keyboard phone comes along, I'll be clutching my Touch Pro 2...and shredding out emails while clutching.

MooGoo said:
Lenovo X200 Multi-Touch Tablet FTW. It could literally eat the iPad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speaking of technology eating technology, one of my simple pleasures in life is the state in which my desk at work may often be found.
Often I'll have my netbook sitting in front of my desktop and my TP2 sitting in front of my netbook with the keyboard out and the screen tilted up. It looks like the netbook is going to eat a miniature version of itself. And the whole setup is like one big computer matryoshka doll. (I should probably throw a full sized laptop in there for even greater effect.)
This, to me, is another strong argument for keyboards on phones.

SemisolidSnake said:
Speaking of technology eating technology, one of my simple pleasures in life is the state in which my desk at work may often be found.
Often I'll have my netbook sitting in front of my desktop and my TP2 sitting in front of my netbook with the keyboard out and the screen tilted up. It looks like the netbook is going to eat a miniature version of itself. And the whole setup is like one big computer matryoshka doll. (I should probably throw a full sized laptop in there for even greater effect.)
This, to me, is another strong argument for keyboards on phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just the fact that I can see my whole screen, navigate using the d-pad (for anything tricky), and actually type on documents that need it is way too strong an argument for any phone maker to be ignoring keyboards. I don't understand why keyboards aren't being used more - I know the Droid's keyboard sucked big time, but it proved how THIN you can make a phone with a keyboard while still being way too powerful.
If Motorola grew a brain, they could pump out an awesome keyboard phone. And then, maybe it'd set a precedent like the Droid didn't.

Reasons to Choose Android/iOS over WP7

Too many trolls.

Sorry to hear about that. I've experienced similar stuff like that. I have a hard time dealing with such hard heartedness.
Give WP7 a little time. A lot of the features it lacks will come in the second run of hardware with the Samsung Focus S being the top choice (IMO)
I know I certainly had a hard time putting up with WP7 till Mango came along. And the updating system really scrapes my last nerve raw. But the thing about WP7 is it is so good compared to all of the others that I can't turn away from it. I really tried this last time to abandon it when the Mango update didn't come through for my Focus like it was suppose to. But I really could not maintain a hate for it no matter how hard I tried. It's too good. Damn MS! Making such a sweet system. They knew what they were maliciously doing.
But Mango has solved a lot of issues for me and the customization of the homescreen with certain tiles and such is perfect for me. We have a "Show off your WP7" thread where you can find out about apps and the look of their tiles, which I find very convenient and helpful. It's here.

Attacked? Really? I simply asked him to relocate his thread and he got defensive. That pertains to the topic at hand since you decided to demonize me without reason.
As for iphone's benefits, gaming and more mature PC software. Everything on it runs on par with it's WP7 performance and there's more of it. It's only drawbacks are screen size which isn't much of an issue to most but I can't type on it, and the hideous UI.
Edit: android, can't think of any unless you want to build your phone from the ground up to be half as good. It's just not a quality product. If you're a hardware junkie though it's where you want to be, just know that the hardware could really show off if it were utilizing another OS.

IOS-
Smoothness
More Games
More Apps
Looks pretty good Stock
Android-
Complete customization - Even without rooting; You can change the launcher, Lockscreen, etc. Just look @ the different homescreens on the Show your [Insert Phone]'s Homescreen threads.
More apps (Less than IOS); However, you can get apps that can do pretty much anything - Such as custom launchers, etc which would be classified as "Duplicating Functionality" on IOS. I'm not too sure about WP7 though.
More games (Still less than IOS)
Open Source (Bigger variation in ROMS, such as CM7, Miui, etc). Also has the biggest rooting community (Technically, IOS is bigger since there are only 6 phones. Regardless, you cant exactly do much to a Jailbroken iPhone compared to android)
Proper Multitasking (You can get an app such as Equalizer to change the sound of all other apps, instead of getting custom music/video players with built in adjsutable equalizers)
These are just the Pros, There are still quite a few cons with IOS/Android.

Just choose iOs or Wp7, if you want to be sure you get updates everytime, even with different manufacturers window phone 7 updates everybody. http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/28/microsoft-windows-phone-mango-now-being-delivered-to-100-perce/

Honestly, I didn't like the interface of WP7. very subjective matter, but iOS interface is way cooler.
IOS is bound to be more stable and secure, android would be more flexible. Windows wouldnt get the leverage that it got in the early 90's PC arena due to open source android.

Oh gawd saji, you just opened up a gate to a "serious discussion". Noooo, this thread is going to go downhill now. Well atleast we'll be exercising our brains.

Windows Phone 7, no are a best plataform in this moment... in the future is posible

LuzDeLaLuna said:
Windows Phone 7, no are a best plataform in this moment... in the future is posible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Na, The best platform, Sega Mega drive, The best platform(er) Sonic 3 + Sonic and knuckles
Suck it mario.

Apps. First party support. Devs on iOS and android care more about their products. Better push notifications. Better IM apps on ios and android. Better voice recognition (vlingo and/or Siri). Better mapping (Google Maps and MapQuest).
Way better and more future proof hardware and gaming.
iOS is more polished than android. Wp7 from an apps/dev support standpoint feels like Symbian. The ui has many drawbacks and wastes a colossal ton of screen real estate in many instances. My favorite is when you select a list or combo box control. It takes up the whole screen with a text list. iOS and touch wiz phones only use half with a wheel to select, which is way better.
Metro is cute on the home screen, but once you dive deeper the endless palettes of nothing but huge text and no chrome just kills the experience for me.
If you are a light user then wp7 is probably best since you won't require much, anyways. Moderate to heavy users are better served by the other two. Media focused users are better off going with apple, but wp7 is obviously better than android from an ecosystem standpoint. Android phones tend to have significantly better codec support than iOS and wp7, in addition to adobe flash compatibility.
Windows phones aren't adequately future proof. They all use older hardware with lower resolution screens. Wvga is the hvga of this day, IMO, ESP with so many non-PenTile qHD SLCD phones coming out these days. Games have to use lower resolutions and don't run as well as on i4(s) and top end android phones (or even some mid range androids now, since some have hummingbird processors etc.). Games that run flawlessly on ios like fruit ninja lag on wp7 devices.
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

N8ter said:
Apps. First party support. Devs on iOS and android care more about their products. Better push notifications. Better IM apps on ios and android. Better voice recognition (vlingo and/or Siri). Better mapping (Google Maps and MapQuest).
Way better and more future proof hardware and gaming.
iOS is more polished than android. Wp7 from an apps/dev support standpoint feels like Symbian. The ui has many drawbacks and wastes a colossal ton of screen real estate in many instances. My favorite is when you select a list or combo box control. It takes up the whole screen with a text list. iOS and touch wiz phones only use half with a wheel to select, which is way better.
Metro is cute on the home screen, but once you dive deeper the endless palettes of nothing but huge text and no chrome just kills the experience for me.
If you are a light user then wp7 is probably best since you won't require much, anyways. Moderate to heavy users are better served by the other two. Media focused users are better off going with apple, but wp7 is obviously better than android from an ecosystem standpoint. Android phones tend to have significantly better codec support than iOS and wp7, in addition to adobe flash compatibility.
Windows phones aren't adequately future proof. They all use older hardware with lower resolution screens. Wvga is the hvga of this day, IMO, ESP with so many non-PenTile qHD SLCD phones coming out these days. Games have to use lower resolutions and don't run as well as on i4(s) and top end android phones (or even some mid range androids now, since some have hummingbird processors etc.). Games that run flawlessly on ios like fruit ninja lag on wp7 devices.
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As you've gained report as a WP7 troll, I'll bite. How is wp7, from a developer standpoint, like Symbian? They have undoubtedly the best support I've received on any OS, the best developer incentive, and a dev environment that is a pleasure to operate in. Also, angry birds and fruit ninja both run smoother than my GS2 now that the mango update is intact. Fruit ninja is not quite on par with iPhone 4s but that's just because it was obviously a port rather than a new build of the game.

General Discussion in the General Thread

Redirected from
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2551715&page=58#post57872212
(Sorry Moderators if I'm doing something wrong, but most of us were posting stuff on the DEV thread...)
I have to agree with @Dukenukemx that newer phones suck and that most don't even have physical keyboards.
This is probable because of the increase in screen size and the general interest in lighter, thinner phones. I actually really, really enjoy a heavy phone. It makes them feel solid, like those age-old Nokias. The myTouch especially is rather heavy, and I've dropped mine a lot mainly because I'm in college and I'm always in a rush but also because I'm clumsy as ****. Heavier phones are more solidly built, because of the thicker plastic required to support all the moving parts, in the myTouch's case, the G2, and the G1.
Gonna edit this later, I'm not done.

AndrMatr said:
Redirected from
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2551715&page=58#post57872212
(Sorry Moderators if I'm doing something wrong, but most of us were posting stuff on the DEV thread...)
I have to agree with @Dukenukemx that newer phones suck and that most don't even have physical keyboards.
This is probable because of the increase in screen size and the general interest in lighter, thinner phones. I actually really, really enjoy a heavy phone. It makes them feel solid, like those age-old Nokias. The myTouch especially is rather heavy, and I've dropped mine a lot mainly because I'm in college and I'm always in a rush but also because I'm clumsy as ****. Heavier phones are more solidly built, because of the thicker plastic required to support all the moving parts, in the myTouch's case, the G2, and the G1.
Gonna edit this later, I'm not done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's an interesting situation. Now I like the smaller phones because I don't want to have to be toting what is increasingly becoming a tablet in the front pocket. 4" screen is my limit, which rounds out to 122mm height, just small enough for a camera case.
I could have went iPhone with a Bluetooth keyboard but I don't like the Apple company model.
I won't repost the link I left in the other thread, but it talks about how Sprint did customer surveys which found people preferred hardware keyboards. They built two models, and close to no one bought them.
A big issue is that the lines are unrecognizable, and middle of the road in terms of specs. Since the specifications have pretty much stayed the same since then, "new" models are now bordering on low end phones. Ones that will never get updates, support, or any hope in general.
The suggestion in the end was that a qwerty line must be tied to a flagship device, or it won't survive. But after I had a couple beers with a network provider, their thoughts is that the market for qwerty is so niche that it would be too much risk for them.
A full sized device with a keyboard would not be practical. With the size they make them now, a few extra millimeters thickness for the keyboard makes it look bulky. A "Q" model would have to be tied to a device with a reduced size, like the S4 Mini, which is already a niche device.
Another issue, particularly with the doubleshot is with the hardware breakdown. Flex cable problems are all too common. With bar phones, it seems the only hardware problems they get are with the power button, and sometimes the volume rocker.
This may be my last foray in the hardware keyboard trend. I could (probably) get my cases made, which would be expensive and annoying, but it is what it is. Without a keyboard, and the ability to have a custom made case, I am willing to go to a phone size up to 5.5". So that would mean either a Nexus 5, Moto X 2013, or Moto G.
But it will be a while before I need to make that decision. My F3Q is still going strong (and strangely less miserable than the MT4GS, even though it wasn't a bad phone), although I miss the tactile response home buttons. ROM support would be nice, but I really like the LG interface right now (even though I replaced the launcher and icon pack).
My rant is over, for now.
Sent from my LG-D520 using XDA Free mobile app

@joel.maxuel, you have an interesting point when you said that a flagship device is needed for the keyboard to survive.
At the time, the myTouch was a flagship device. At the T-Moblie store I worked at every one of the guys I was working with had one. One had a red one, one had a white one, and I had LG Doubleplay (which is terrible phone, by the way) that I only got because it had two screens, which defeated the purpose of a battery.
While useful, the keyboards take up a little extra battery with the backlight. As far as the Doubleplay goes, the second screen combined with the keyboard just made the battery drain like someone who won the lottery throws away their money on houses, cars, etc. I never looked into Cyanogenmod for it, although that would be AWESOME with 4.x.x, having that extra screen for messaging and the top screen for whatever else so I can watch videos while I text.
Another device for the keyboard issue is the Kyocera Echo.
I don't know how many of you are familiar with the device, but it had two screens, which could be used in tandem with each other, you could pull an image onto both screens expanded so the image took up both screens. It was an extremely advanced version of the Doubleplay. The second screen was also the keyboard, which I didn't like because there was no physical feedback except the vibration of the phone. I liked the myTouch that when I was working for T-Mob I almost bought one, however I forgot about it as soon as I had access to the Sidekick 4G. What I liked about that phone was the lock screen, which displayed the time in words rather than the numbers. The trackpad was a joke, never worked properly, but it had a decent processor and a decent amount of RAM for 2.2 Froyo.
The keyboard was excellent, it had pretty good functionality. The buttons were really, really well spaced. There was no room for accidentally pressing a key and sending a text sending something really inappropriate instead of something harmless. Froyo is like Windows XP.
The downside of the Sidekick was that you almost always had to use both hands to press the soft keys, which I found to be almosed completely useless. Samsung did a terrible job of designing it. I have almost always had a keyboarded phone, and that's why I have switched carriers so much. T-Mob has always had the best Android phones, by far. Verizon's are also moderately decent, but T-Mob's were the best.
My favorite phone ever, was the G1. Forgive me, but I totally forgot about the spitting image of Google. Poorly designed, ugly, but very, very easy to use. I found out that it went all the way to ICS, and I threw mine out just about the time that ICS came out. The keyboard was the best addition to the phone that HTC could have added. The keyboard was snug, good for my (at the time) small fingers (I was 13). The trackball didn't light up, which was disappointing, that's what I liked about Blackberries (but blackberries themselves are a joke). When the myTouch 3G Slide came out, my friend got one and then he gave it to me. Even though it was slow as $#!+ the keyboard was the best thing (As I type this I realised that HTC had a thing for keyboards) about the phone.
My final point: Keyboards were a very, very important part of Android history. While keyboards had a fad, and like most things, they will make a come back. They might not be on major devices, but they will be on devices that will be supported enough for Cyanogenmod and the likes. I visited a AT&T store about a year ago and there were a couple of Android phones with keyboards. I look at foreign markets occasionally, and there are some companies that have keyboarded Android phones with decent specs (like a 2.2GHz quad core ARMv7 processor and an Adreno 430) but their hardware is cheaply made and the ratings that were translated by Google said that the hardware burned up fast. Battery life was almost zero.
Conclusion: wait a few years, or go live in China or Japan.
Edit
Oh, and by the way, I found this:
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/artic...ils_leaked_on_upcoming_mytouch_android_sequel
The phone looks like a combination between the myTouch 4G Slide and the 3G Slide, but there's no "chin" or whatever. The face is completely flat.
Personally, I think this one looks really cool. I have no idea why HTC didn't go with this design, I think it's really good, but instead they went with the original design of the current myTouch 3G Slide, which is what the 4G Slide is based off of.
What do you guys think?

Why non keyboard phones? It's not hard to imagine why companies don't make them. The demand for them has gone away. Why? Is touchscreen superior?
Look at the current trend of Android phones. They're getting bigger, but everyone hates them bigger, but everyone needs them bigger. Cause when you hold the phone on the side the keyboard consumes the screen. It's the most comfortable way to type, because holding it vertical gives you more visible screen, but less keyboard. So the solution is to make the screen bigger.
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But the reason everyone gets these keyboardless phones is because of iPhone. Everyone wants an iPhone clone. It's to look cool without the Apple tax. Manufacturers have no problems with this, as it makes manufacturing these phones cheaper. They encourage people to go for brick style phones, just like they encourage people to spend more on internal storage and cloud services. It's done by not including SD card slots and charge a lot for 32GB phones. Despite that a 32GB class 10 SD Card is only $17 on Amazon, and that's not even the cheap ones.
How hard is it to make a brick phone? Screen+SoC+battery = phone. When companies like HTC are falling apart when all they can do is continue to make more powerful iPhone clones. Like I care how much faster my phone can get when I don't have the software on it. Hey look 2+Ghz quad core with GPU9001 graphics with screen resolution beyond 1080p. So it's obviously for gaming, cause Facebook doesn't need this kind of power. It would be more comfortable to use a keyboard for gaming, especially games like ShovelKnight. Instead of HTC going after qwerty again they just keep trying to one up Samsung, LG, and Apple in shear power. Meanwhile best touchscreen games are AngryBirds, FruitNinja, and etc, which don't need that kind of power.

Well, in the beginning, it was more than a fad, it was a requirement. On screen keyboards were not part of the OS until Donut 1.6, where the G1 was released with Cupcake 1.5...
Sent from my LG-D520 using XDA Free mobile app

@Dukenukemx
You're right on the "More Power" idea. I totally agree.
Companies are repeatedly trying to 1-up each other with hardware.
While the G1 is struggling with 4.0.4, phones like the LG Phoenix are thriving even on Lollipop.
The Samsung Glalaxy Note III has an insane processor that can play Minecraft with no problem.
The Samsung Glalaxy Centura has an 800Mhz processor that can handle Minecraft with no problem. The only problem I have with my Phoenix is the processor architecture being ARMv6, and Minecraft is built on an ARMv7 platform. The Adreno 200 handles NFS Shift with no problem. If the Phoenix had ARMv7 I would have just bought a Bluetooth keyboard and played around with that. I'm happy with the Phoenix and if I can downgrade the CWM recovery back to 5.x.x.x I might also downgrade the OS to either 4.0.4 or 4.1.2.
And you're right with the whole memory problem. My Phoenix shipped with an unexpected 32GB Sandisk 32GB MicroSD card already wiped in the device! I bought the phone itself for $19.95 on amazon, and the card came with it! Apple bumps the price on a new iPhone up about $100-$200 per memory level. Other manufacturers are doing the same. It's not about the phone anymore. It's about the game. Manufacturers just slap the newest and biggest on their devices while devs are constantly tyring to keep up. The battery life is dismal. My Phoenix gets 2-3 days on a charge with a 1520MAh 3.7V battery. The Samsung Galaxy S5 has a 10.78 WH battery... Since when was battery life rated in the amount of watts used? The watt is a measurement of heat... That's disturbing. Even my myTouch gets warm while browsing the web, nevermind I fried my last one playing Minecraft. Given I had the processor overclocked by a whole 500MHz, that's mostly my fault. My Phoenix can barely handle a 148MHz overclock. The phones (myTouch and Phoenix) were released two months apart! Had Minecraft development started then, we would probably still see a lot of ARMv7 exclusive apps actually developed for ARMv6 as well. Developers tend to go to the brighter side of the latest and greatest, however people like me prefer to hang out on the deep end and dig through the dirt and bring old relics to light (like the Phoenix or the G1). Even the iPhone 3GS received an Android update! All you had to do was jailbreak it. iDroid development stopped right around the release of JB mainly because the 3GS's hardware couldn't keep up with Android and the developers had better things to do than tinker around with brand new iPhones. iOS is up to what, iOS 9? Android is only recently to 5.0!
I definitely prefer Android, though, because Android is open source and Apple is paranoid and has all of their stuff closed-source. I remember the announcement in Google News when the Android Market reached its one-billionth app download, and now most apps have over 100,000 and the number of Android apps is blowing up exponentially. I looked at Google's stock worth per share: 526 as of posting. About 8 or 9 months ago it was at over a thousand. Apple's stock? 110. Microsoft? Forget it. microsoft is becoming a game company now. Microsoft is becoming Blackberry: Everyone uses it but they either don't care about it or hate it. Windows 8 was a joke. I have extremely high expectations for Windows 10. I don't want to be disappointed so I'm using Ubuntu.

joel.maxuel said:
Well, in the beginning, it was more than a fad, it was a requirement. On screen keyboards were not part of the OS until Donut 1.6, where the G1 was released with Cupcake 1.5...
Sent from my LG-D520 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could be argued that it's a fad to not have a keyboard. Is removing SD cards also a fad too? Nobody wants Windows phones, but somehow they keep getting made. Part of it is market influence, and part of it is collaboration. I believe there's a lot of people who are still waiting for a next generation QWERTY phone, but nobody is making them? Something is not right here. We are being pushed into a direction that companies want. Who doesn't want a SD card in their phone? WHO?
The Motorola Droid 4 is the best QWERTY phone today. It has respectable specs for a phone today, but it was made 2 years ago. I would be using it now if it worked on T-Mobile. There are people waiting for the Droid 5, but that's likely never going to happen. But I also believe that companies like HTC, LG, Samsung, and even Apple are facing a growing menace. The Chinese ultra cheap market is growing and ready to explode into a problem for them. Willing to believe they have no problem with making QWERTY phones. I have no problem with Mediatek or Allwinner chips in my phone. Probably the worst thing going for the Chinese phones is lack of community rom support and support for T-Mobile.

AndrMatr said:
Even the iPhone 3GS received an Android update! All you had to do was jailbreak it. iDroid development stopped right around the release of JB mainly because the 3GS's hardware couldn't keep up with Android and the developers had better things to do than tinker around with brand new iPhones. iOS is up to what, iOS 9? Android is only recently to 5.0!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't know about the iDroid project, sounds like a cool initiative. Too bad they didn't keep it up (with the newer devices).
Your point that the iPhone couldn't keep up with JB tells me that either (a) Apple products are underspecced as well as being overpriced, or (b) the shift in OS requirements for Android were rather steep (in reality the big jump was from GB to ICS). With the options available, I figure it is mostly the former.
I don't understand the point of Android vs iOS versioning. Both release major versions once a year. Android just didn't mark those milestones with a full increment.
Sent from my LG-D520 using XDA Free mobile app
---------- Post added at 01:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------
Dukenukemx said:
It could be argued that it's a fad to not have a keyboard. Is removing SD cards also a fad too?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that no longer having a keyboard is more of a trend, not a fad. A fad is a passing phase, likely/hopefully phablets for example. Since a hardware keyboard is no longer necessary, and too many people have voted with their wallets (never mind the fact my friend at Eastlink pointed out - you cannot customize a hardware keyboard) it is difficult that manufacturers will go back to that, including cheap chinese manufacturers to create latin-based phones for that matter.
The big companies have took too many notes from Apple - no SD card, non-removable battery, although they have pushed other nasties onto the market i.e. ever increasing screen sizes to hide the need for more chassis space for the specs.
Lack of SD card and removable battery is the worst for people like us. No SD card means we cannot back up userdata in recovery. No removable battery means we have nothing to pull if we bootloop and need to hard reset (AFAIK).
Their stance is that it saves space, and with 64GB onboard, why need expansion for a card that often cannot be more than 32GB anyway? I don't know the reasoning for the battery, but it means that the phone has to be replaced much sooner, and it cannot be shipped easily in many locations.
Its hard to tell what is a fad or a trend, but if enough people vote with their wallets, hindsight will determine the outcome.
Sent from my LG-D520 using XDA Free mobile app

joel.maxuel said:
I didn't know about the iDroid project, sounds like a cool initiative. Too bad they didn't keep it up (with the newer devices).
Your point that the iPhone couldn't keep up with JB tells me that either (a) Apple products are underspecced as well as being overpriced, or (b) the shift in OS requirements for Android were rather steep (in reality the big jump was from GB to ICS). With the options available, I figure it is mostly the former.
I don't understand the point of Android vs iOS versioning. Both release major versions once a year. Android just didn't mark those milestones with a full increment.
I think that no longer having a keyboard is more of a trend, not a fad. A fad is a passing phase, likely/hopefully phablets for example. Since a hardware keyboard is no longer necessary, and too many people have voted with their wallets (never mind the fact my friend at Eastlink pointed out - you cannot customize a hardware keyboard) it is difficult that manufacturers will go back to that, including cheap chinese manufacturers to create latin-based phones for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as Apple devices being underspecced, I completely agree. The 4S had a 1Ghz dual core processor in 2011, where as we have the myTouch and the Samsung Galaxy S Whatever. While the iPhone 4S had really, really good battery life (that's the only good thing about Apple and Blackberry, everything else is total crap) it was a terrible phone, I ended up installing android on it with working 3G and wifi, plus texting and calling. A lot of apps were super incompatible with the iPhone's hardware. The Cortex-A9 was a sh*tty processor to begin with, and the PowerVR GPU was total BS as well. In contrast, my little, reliable Phoenix runs NFS Shift really well. I downloaded it for iOS when I wasn't using Android, and the iPhone could barely handle the graphics. I'll give Apple the cake for design. The iPhone 4S looked really cool. The ONLY part I actually enjoyed about iOS was Siri, and ther's a bunch of Android apps just for that. Given the'r not as good, they work much better in my experience.
On another note, how good would X86 and X64 desktop architecture work with Android? I heard newer versions of Android phones will be x64 compatible.
Aside from that, the Droid Turbo has better specs than my current PC, and once the Droid Turbo loses value because of the terrible battery life I might buy one and load up Bochs (a x86 desktop processor emulator and virtual machine for Android) and just boot Windows XP. I wonder how well that would work? It almost worked on a G2, it was just really slow.
Yet another topic, a lot of PC games that have launcher clients (Skyrim, Oblivion, COD, NFS) all use a standalone .exe that grabs the files and loads them into the RAM as needed. What if someone recompiles the launcher/client .exe for Android, and transfers the files to the SD card and installs the APK? Can that work? The Android apps like Ravensword also uses external data separate from the standalone APK app are practically the same, except the APK is the client instead of .exe. Could this mean we can get Skyrim for Android? I mean, we have the hardware. All we need is a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, or a compatible game controller. I take it you'd have to modify a few files for hardware reasons, but other than that it might work. A buddy of mine tried to get it to work with Oblivion, but he failed because it was too big of a task and took too much time.

Dukenukemx said:
The Motorola Droid 4 is the best QWERTY phone today. It has respectable specs for a phone today, but it was made 2 years ago. I would be using it now if it worked on T-Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking about that. It has better specs than the MT4GS, existing the 8GB internal and the 1024MB of RAM. I might buy one for novelty purposes, use it as an android equivalent to and iPod Touch (which is what my MT4GS is doing, I have all media forwarded through bluetooth[calls, texts,internet]) but my problem is I already have two MT4GS's and I'm just gonna wear both of them out. By the time I break both of them HOPEFULLY there will be a decent QWERTY phone. T-Mobile seems like a good option, it's too bad alternate ROMs don't let us do a SIM unlock. My LG Phoenix, which I adore, is still loyal to me even though it doesn't have an SD card and is still sticking with me considering how much crap I've put it through.
It's also a shame that LG took over the Gx series, I really would have liked HTC to continue it. Just imagine another QWERTY phone! The HTC G3! I'm probably gonna whip out my pencil and draw it, I'll share it with you guys! Then I might send the design to HTC... Forget it. It's only a dream, but the concept is enjoyable. The HTC One should have a slide out variation, like the myTouch and the Evo 4G series'. Just browsing Amazon I see quite a few really, really crappy QWERTY phones in the style of Blackberrys. They disgust me.

Like it or not like it, I expect thanks for this. I apologise for the poor drawing skills, they are usually better and I was excited and rushed this a little.
Just in case the image doesn't show up, here:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6Qo4xLF16dSOFlVRDM4ZUFwV0E/edit?usp=docslist_api