Related
I'm not sure if this has been discussed already, i already did a quick google search and didn't find anything...
But i was just thinking, there are always great apps that i find honestly every week on XDA, mostly because they're just burried under pages, or maybe dont have the same wild popularity that ifart does. But does anyone else think it'd be a great idea if we could maybe somehow take donations from XDA users, and then use this money to register XDA as a developer on the Microsofts upcoming Marketplace store? Maybe it could be turned into something where we the users actually vote which applications should be submitted on a weekly or montly basis. I just think there's so many great apps on XDA that it'd be a great way to get them, and xda-devs as well, some exposure. I'm sure there's lots of people on XDA that have developed great apps whether they be keyboards, or scroll modification tools, or other utilities that may not want to spend 99 bucks and dont think they will actually develop 6 apps.
Chime in guys, i dunno if i'm crazy...but i think it might be a good idea.
I suspect that the first major hurdle would be this:
You are able to download so many great apps from XDA-Devs because they are generally free, and that is why people are allowed to post them here. If they were not free, I am pretty sure they can no longer be advertised on XDA-Devs, correct me if I am wrong.
So if there was a way to recoupe the $99 join fee when all people are doing is offering free apps and taking no profit, them I am sure people would be willing to consider it. I also believe that after you have uploaded six apps, then it is another $99 for every app after, no?
It is a good idea, and deserves some thought, I just can't think of how to make it viable. XDA is popular enough that if there was a way to make money from it, it would have made its own marketplace
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7597440&postcount=463
End of the line for Dinik - 10/08/2010
Dinik's ban is temporary. Hopefully he will feel gratious enough to return when it is lifted.
Well credit to Chainfire for being a fair and decent Mod.
Chainfire you will be a legend today for better or worse!
He had the courage to end a pointless feud that should have been finished ages ago.
No doubt this will also upset and anger many of Dinik's loyal followers (and maybe even drive them to HTCPedia!), but it was inevitable as things were continuing and escalating every day.
Thought this post should be made asap, as a way to contain the inevitable onslaught of comments and grief, so that it does not spread over XDA and get out of hand! Please feel free to move as you see fit.
Hirshy
well.....that sucks.
My opinion
It socks relay; I can understand that the moderators must do something to keep-down the endless discussion; but on this way thy don't punish one person but a hole group of members.
I have respect to the decision of the moderators; and hope this will be a lesson for the future.
I hope this measure it's temporary and not definitive.
I'm shocked and upset by this move,it does seem unfair to
ban only Dinik in this way,to my eyes there were more than one person involved
here and to be consistent the Moderators need to be seen to be fair
and ban all involved in this petty squabble surely ?
Just my Twopenneth.
I didn't really follow the drama fully, but it did seem like the other parties involved did on occasion follow dinik to his threads to pick a fight.
Diniks works were quite nice, iam using it too. but i think he got to far with his own rules of using/not using his works.
Hes spreading his works on xda, so he should respekt xda rules and not the other way round. xda is a free board with a lot of good (free)stuff...he should take cookie as example with his really impressive an amazing CHT...cookie isnt so arrogant as dinik and even publish his sourcecode for everybody =)...
If he wants to stay with his attitude..then he should to to apple =p
oh maaaaaan i loooove his works. they should take that into account.
so where will dinik b going
dunnboy9984 said:
so where will dinik b going
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Over to DJC's house for a nice summer Barbecue?
OMG! Dinik is gone from XDA_Devs?! RIP
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Gone? RIP?
Chainfire banned Dinik for a couple of days, that´s it. If Dinik will be "gone" will be his own decision.
I am actually quite astonished to see that some people don´t seem to understand what was and is going on.
It is the forum moderators and admins who make the rules, nobody else.
While I think Dinik´s work brought some fresh new ideas to the whole Sense modding, some aspects are questionable. I actually stopped using his work, as I felt he made statements which feel like written by some Apple PR guys:
"The greatest (put what you want here) ever, brand new and unique."
Yeah, just like Apple re-inventing the wheel again and again.
Chainfire you will be a legend today for better or worse!
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I think frequent forum visitors will know that Chainfire is indeed a legend here (and probably some other places, too). In a positive way - no need to mention that. Just check dozens, if not hundreds, ROMs with CFC´d Manila, Turbo 3D drivers, and more. Great work. And free, if you like.
Life goes on. Enjoy your devices with those things you already have from Dinik. And as soon as he comes back, you get even more of his work. If not, just continue using what is existing.
@tictac0566
Yes, you have right, its a warning measurement. He is band fore 3 days.
I really enjoyed Dinik's work and hope he chooses to return. I won't take sides in the banning debate, but it does seem like the punishment should have been the same for both parties involved.
Hello,it's a good thing for everybody , he cries all the times and gives a lot of work to moderators, if all creators,developers did the same thing,xda no longer exist .
OH NO!
I´m not glad about how far it is gone now! But in my opinion i think Dinik will not come Back after the 3 days!
Update from other members
kurt-willems said:
@tictac0566
Yes, you have right, its a warning measurement. He is band fore 3 days.
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tictac0566 said:
Gone? RIP?
Chainfire banned Dinik for a couple of days, that´s it. If Dinik will be "gone" will be his own decision.
I think frequent forum visitors will know that Chainfire is indeed a legend here (and probably some other places, too). In a positive way - no need to mention that. Just check dozens, if not hundreds, ROMs with CFC´d Manila, Turbo 3D drivers, and more. Great work. And free, if you like.
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Thank you for the update guys, I had made brief contact with Chainfire before posting and was, at the time, unaware of the banning severity.
I have modified the title and first post as appropriate and will continue if further updates emerge.
This thread was started simply as a location point to capture any questions and conversation about the events, which I hope it is doing acceptably.
My post is intended to be neutral as I am unbiased in the argument and decision, however I do feel the constant arguments, bickering, rules (and rule breaking), and negativity was distracting from the great works and detrimental the forum community spirit in general.
Dinik being a high profile member, would not have gone unmissed for long before questions were asked, so this thread was created. Perhaps a mod can be kind enough to answer any questions other members may have about the decision and rules that lead to it.
Many thanks,
Hirshy
tictac0566 said:
Life goes on. Enjoy your devices with those things you already have from Dinik. And as soon as he comes back, you get even more of his work. If not, just continue using what is existing.
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That's it. Thanks, Tictac.
First of all, I don't use any of the graphical enhancements by the parties in dispute.
In my opinion the decision to temp ban Dinik was a poor call.
In my view the mods took the easy choice in banning Dinik as he was actively trying to defend/protect his work. Silencing him was easier than trying to end the conflict between the parties involved.
If anything most who were involved in the dispute should have been banned, not just Dinik.
However, let's not blow this out of proportion. There isn't anything on XDA graphically wise that can't be duplicated very easily (even with my limited skills ), so I'm surprised this sort of problem doesn't occur all the time .
If you don't want your work to be distributed/duplicated or inspire further development then don't post on XDA, it's as simple as that but I do hope Dinik does return to XDA as his contribution to the community is considerable.
Hope he returns, because honestly after finding this site, he's the main reason I continue to frequent & enjoy this site. No disrespect to other hardworking devs, I appreciate what all you guys do for us.
<cough> No ripping rule? <cough> Did Dinik realize where he was posting his Rom?!
Just one thing to consider here please (in my personal and humble opinion).
Let me prefix this by saying that I've only ever used Dinik’s keyboard and it is a very nice skin. Actually it is a regret that this all kicked off just as he was about to release a wicked new version of the keyboard. I hope he still does, sparse glass parts can be beautiful. On the other hand, the icons and all-over glass are just not my cup-of-tea. To me, I feel the icon images are overwhelmed by the constant borders and large margins around the images. And the glass reflection layer covering the actual icon image can be distracting from the main focus of the icon. But obviously many, many people do like them, so it is all just personal taste.
That said, here is my single point regarding Dinik’s rules, the ongoing saga and many, many arguments occurring throughout the forums:
Without this community (the same community that may have also downloaded, tweaked, changed or even re-distributed his icons, template and related themes so many times) ripping works out of roms (EXT packages, XIP/SYS, drivers, applications, etc), there would be no custom ROMs (Miri or otherwise) for his theme to exist in.
The original/stock roms are, for all intent and purposes, the REAL intellectual property of genuine Artistic and Development giants like HTC and Microsoft. They have had the good fortune to recognize XDA as the great resource that it is; and, despite their actual copyrights, legalities and ownership of code & graphics, made the fortunate judgement to allow all the XDA ripping and modding to continue.
If HTC or MS decided that all new development branches and leaked WinMob builds, were exclusively their property and not to be posted elsewhere; and that roms & applications from a particular device where to be 'Exclusive' to only that model device - what would happen to you, me and this whole community?!
Perhaps Dinik’s distribution rules and tactics should have taken a lesson from that example?...
All the best with with whatever you decides to do in the future Dinik, and I do thank you again for all the effort and hard work you provide(d) into this community.
Hirshy
and about time
u would think he's the only one that can invent glass icons¡¡¡¡
he just went too far and if he don't come back its his lost
XDA was here before him and will be here long after him.
So this is an attempt for everyone to vent/warn others of possibly malicious, lazy, ($#&%y) developers and their apps. To be clear I am not encouraging slander and I think this should pertain to mainly paid apps, but nothing is 100%. If there are many out there maybe we can eventually take a poll and use the results to petition the dev or google. So I'll start:
Dev: Davinci Developers App: Many
Nuff said! Theives free apps from these and probably other forums and sells them on the market.
Dev:Lior Gonnen App: UltimateFavesPRO
Started out as a great concept with nice UI but lack of updates killed it. Further more friends of the dev (unconfirmed) post five star ratings with totally fabricated reviews. When I emailed the dev about app I was suggested to try Wave Launcher. I didn't pay for one app to be baited and switched for another. Pissed!
I wrote about it here: LINK
Does anyone know more about the background - from the twitter account it seems like just a general run-down and a disappointing community.
Other developers on here feel the same?
I'd love to get comments from some of the developers on here, if that is the case.
I'm not a developer but did read this already on a posting at Google+.
But you are right, moving into that direction would be very bad.
Some people think they can be rude because they stay anonymous.
Its something that happens more and more these days on the internet.
I realize it's impossible - there are 12 year olds who probably run rampant.
Seems like there is SOMETHING that can be done.
I'm as Pro-Android as they come. But at times it feels like starting a relationship with a beautiful boy/girl only to find they come with a sack load of emotional baggage.
Here's my take on it: http://andgamesdevblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/android-culture-its-own-worst-enemy.html
I am far from giving up (thick skinned) but there is a real troll culture growing and needs to be stomped out. Anonymity has it's uses but, as with everything else, has its drawbacks. What we need is troll hunters!
Paul
(aka Strangemoo)
I have seen that there are some stupid comments on the market... But not so extreme as to take down your app...
Some users is just plain stupid... I'm from Denmark, so a lot of the comments are in danish... But that devs are many times foreign and really don't look or understand the comments... But a lot of them complain about pathetic things like no app 2 sd or that some function suddenly's gone instead of just writing the dev an email about the issue and giving the app the respect it deserves... 1/5 rating is a lot of the times not justified...
Just my 2-cents...
I'm sorry but this is a silly and immature move by the developer. Receiving negative feedback, dealing with trolls and idiotic users that don't understand technology are fundamental assumptions of the internet, just like not giving out your passwords or helping Nigerian princes get their money out of Africa.
I loved ShootMe and used it for our screenshots, but I don't have a lot of empathy for people that empower others to control how they feel.
Wrote about this a few weeks back: http://www.androidstatic.com/what-shootme-removed-from-the-android-market
I work in IT support and one of the things I have to support is phones. It blows my mind how many 10-12 year old kids have nicer phones than I do because their rich mommy and daddys think their precious little angels needs the latest and greatest smart phones. I went over to a client's office a couple of months ago and he had 3 brand new Droid 2s for his kids, ranging from 10-14.
Point of all this?
In this day and age, there are so many rude little kids with nice phones all over these forums, its amazing to me anyone sticks around. Im over 40 and was raised in a different time than these self entitled children I see around here that want everything now, for free and want you to do it for them.
I cant blame the guy for leaving. A lot of times I wish I could go live on an island somewhere where I didnt have to deal with people because most of them suck.
s15274n said:
I wrote about it here: LINK
Does anyone know more about the background - from the twitter account it seems like just a general run-down and a disappointing community.
Other developers on here feel the same?
I'd love to get comments from some of the developers on here, if that is the case.
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I'm not a developer, but I was a ShootMe user on my EVO 4G. When it received the upgrade to Gingerbread, the app stopped working. The developer never replied to my email and from reading comments on Market didn't reply to anyone.
He did finally released a new version of ShootMe, but you had to have a computer to use it. Also everytime your reboot your phone, you had to sync everytime with your computer.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Welcome to the "masses".
Want a better experience? Go smaller. Dev for Windows Phone, or Web OS, or RIM.
Once something becomes part of the main stream, you'll see the d-bags start rolling in. Even something like xda can be tarnished once it "gets too big". There is hardly a day that goes by where I don't read a thread here that doesn't make me shake my head. This used to be a highly technical forum, back when every devices was htc and running windows mobile.
The only thing that can really be done, is to work with a smaller, more appreciative community. I doubt you would get very many jerk off comments from a Windows Phone user, they are happy to get whatever they can.
All very good points. I wish I had put a little into my thoughts before typing that up - dev's need to be tougher AND respond to people.
s15274n said:
All very good points. I wish I had put a little into my thoughts before typing that up - dev's need to be tougher AND respond to people.
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As a android developer IMHO the android community is as bad as they come. Xda for example used to be a place of collaboration. Currently its a place where maybe .1% do dev, .9% appreciate the development and try to help, 99% ether complain or say nothing at all. Whether the development is for free or profite(which I won't evev get into here) how is a developer supposed to work off of that? Users would rather right a comment blasting a developer who has literally spent days of his life on some product without even attempting to resolve the issue themselves.
I'm not saying some complaints are not warranted, just saying flip the coin around and its not so hard to understand the developers standpoint.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
There is no denying that there is frustration on both sides. This frustration seems to stem from expectation, communication and control.
The developer expects their customers to be civil.
The users expects the developers to devote anything between some to all of their resources/free time building/making their products better.
Both are unreasonable expectations if you think about it.
Civility can only be maintained in a mediated environment - the Android Market seems only concerned about brand and copyright issues. Google seems to think that it's ok to put its developer behind chicken-wire with lights in their eyes whilst their customers are free to hurl beer bottles at them. Dealing with anony-trolls is time consuming and offputting.
Developers range from teenagers with spare time on their hands up to multi-million dollar development studios. I, myself, am a father of three, I work a full week (we've got to eat!) and I code when time permits. Even though I respond to every request put to my apps, if you think that I'm going to compromise the balance of other areas of my life to put in a bug fix - think again. Sure, some of the more effluent businesses can throw more resources into a project, but just bare in mind that most of us are just people and not doormats. Respect and encouragement is all it takes to make the market a happy place. Flaming just ruins things for all (on both sides).
Communication between devs and end users is and most likely always will be a bit of a sticking point. The fact that everyone has their own opinions, likes, dislikes kind of makes it obvious that there will never be an app with 100% 5 stars. Even the most popular apps on the market have ratings across the board. Though, admittedly, some of the low grades may be down to trolling - but some of them will be genuine. Communication takes time. From a user, it may take a couple of minutes out of their day. For the dev, they may have hundreds a day to deal with. This takes them away from the development that the mail is probably asking for!
A user doesn't, and should never have control over the developer. They should, however, be able to request, beg, plead *nicely*. If they get frustrated then they should remember the phrase 'you get what you pay for'. The developer doesn't get any money when you bought your phone - so don't think they have any obligation to give you something for nothing. If it's a paid app, then the developer is saying 'yes, I'll support it.' That's fair sport.
The developer should have some control over their customers in the sense that a shopkeeper can choose who they let in their shops. Unfortunately they have none. They can't even moderate the comments on the market. I've had a 'GAY - Pointless, uninstall' (his words, not mine) on a free app downloaded 12,000 times and has a 4* rating. I can't do anything about it. It always appears when people go to the page. This individual has hurt my app and me without provocation. I didn't ask anything from them. Fortunately, the following message pointed out that the 'Pointless' user was an idiot (thanks XZombie), hopefully it will negate some of the damage. We're completely at the mercy of the masses, and being a relatively new dev, it's a scary place to be!
It's a shame that the most influential party in all of this is hiding behind a wall of silence.
If you're interested - I'm keeping a track of my experience of Android development. The link is in my earlier post.
Paul
Strangemoo
Paul, I do agree with you to a point. But I'm not sure if I like about developers editing comments. But I do see what you mean about people leaving dumb comments for an app that does work.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Katt,
I don't suggest developers could edit comments - that would make the process equally pointless, as devs can put all of the 'nice' things they want in the description anyway. Sorry if I implied otherwise.
Devs should be able to either remove, request for removal or even block the rogue elements. At present, we have to just live with the insults with no way to disprove their claims. Even a 'troll flag' would be an improvement - to show other users that the dev disagrees with the comment.
All accountability is on the devs whereas trolls can run freely.
Do any other devs out there agree with me on this? Others may have had a much more dealings with such than I have.
Cheers,
Paul
IMO if google was smart they would allow for a limited ammount(% of total) of "submissions" of there comments to a third party(google). If they are found outlandish they can be removed.
My 2 cents lol. I can say as a dev of a few apps on the market I have gotten rediculous comments n 1 stars b4. I mean if they are justified that's a different thing entirely. But my 1 stars are disproportionally higher then the trend of the others. Which proves one thing...
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
This is an honestly great thread. Good initiative to |OP|
Taking down an app just because of a few nasty comments is just
childish and quite frankly pathetic.
Seems that developer has chucked his toys out the pram, if he does
decide to release it again who is going to trust such a developer?
I know I wouldn't use the app again, seeing as he's stuck 2 fingers up
to loyal users and the whole android community all because of a small
minority of people.
The whole thing stinks of the guy thinking he is above any kind of bad
feedback, obviously a developer that doesn't listen to the users of his
app and a developer that turns his back at the drop of a hat.
I'm sure he will be missed... Not
Ps. there are better screenshot apps out there
I agree with your comment. Though I am not a dev. I have experience working in the retail end of software. This is a I want it now society, folks forget that they got this software/app for free and as soon as they have a little issue they fly off the deep end cussing out the maker/distribitor of the product. Anyhow like you said you get what you pay for.LIke in my IT course in school my book said "check the dummy behind the keyboard" anyhow thanks for the great apps i use the time flies app.
If a dev dropped his customers because of a couple of snide comments then, yeah, I'd agree with you.
But was that the case for ShootMe?
Before we start flinging hooks around here, wouldn't it be more productive to actually find out what happened first.
I may be proven wrong here, but the guy must've been given some serious grief to take such a newsworthy action.
In fact, that's not been mentioned - it could be media storming. Drum up enough publicity and come back blazing. Only time will tell on that one.
At the end of the day, it's his property. And if he makes a lot of people unhappy that's his prerogative. The reason he's giving though are indeed a real issue the community needs to address.
The plot thickens.
(Glad you like Times Flies! You're most welcome)
Paul
I've noticed that the flavor of a community will vary a lot by device. The Captivate community seems to be generally good and helpful for the most part, but I've heard horror stories of ungratefulness and rudeness about communities around other devices. It may be the same sort of thing with different varieties of apps. If people feel like an app performs a function they deserve outright, they may be less inclined to courtesy and more inclined to selfish expectation.
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Just allow electronic Darwinism to take its course! If someone is taking the piss, they'll soon die out, if people use common sense and don't encourage them
Most devs that I see, Or rather use ROMS from are quite active and very supportive and NEVER even spoke anything about donation. I was happy to donate for a few of them coz it is really worth it.
I think this opinion you speak of might have been due to your ill luck or some pretty bad devs you have encountered.
I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm saying that your prespective might be due to a unlucky or bad dev (one bad apple) incident.
As far as my phone the Desire Hd is concerned, the developers are still just as helpful and enthusiastic as ever.
There is no developer like a bad or good developer, its because of them 99% of people are using roms without donating, 1 % donates to developers
I know a lot of developer who work on projects for free, but even the developers out there like to drink a beer paid from their projects
-> Donations are welcome!
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
tolis626 said:
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
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So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs
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I totally agree with that.
Archer said:
I totally agree with that.
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Click to collapse
As does XDA, hence the rules at present
This is not a platform to make money from. For anyone who cares, I have made a total of £0.00 from XDA. I don't wish to make personal profit from here.
I spend large numbers of hours on the site, doing stuff behind the scenes. If I was to draw up a "bill" for the past year, it would be in the hundreds of thousands of pounds, based on the price I charge for my services.
But I wouldn't ever want to see myself as selling something here. That's not what this site is about! There's plenty of places to sell stuff. If you make your own app, fair enough. If you modify something belonging to someone else, then nope
bwheelies said:
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
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My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
Ok, I have been trolling here for sometime and have seen some devs who ask for donations. However, the vast majority just contribute their time and hard work for the betterment of the platform and the community as a whole.
As for slow development, I think a lot of that has to do with the phone. I have the SGS 2 and there is active development for that with a lot of great roms. My wife has the 4g Slide and the development is slightly slower. It all comes down to the popularity of the phone.
If devs make a product good enough for people to pay for then good for them. On the other hand, if they ask for donations but their software is crap then no one will buy it.
It's a free market, let them try.
It is alot of work and it requires a special skill set to do what devs do, so I can appreciate them asking for a couple bucks for their trouble.
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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I agree with Cabe24i.See below.
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
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The point isn't whether they are allowed to accept money for their work.They surely should put their creations on sale.And exactly here is where I agree with you.ROMs and kernels aren't their work.As good as someone's modifications can be,it's not new code written by them entirely(except for some patches,etc).While their work is and should be rewarded,it should in no way become mandatory that we pay to use it.It should be optional as it is.It's fair for everyone that way.Those who deserve it will get paid,end of story.
Selling apps on XDA is another story,but it's also completely right to do so,as they could just sell those on the market and be done with it.But it's about applications written anew,not modified ones.Did anyone sell a modified copy of a game?I don't think so.
We should show our appreciation to developers,but they should also show us some respect(I am more than content with what's going on here on the dev side,it's XDA's ungrateful noobs that I'm mad with like most of you here).Fraud is a crime after all.
I can see both sides of that argument actually. Whilst I do think it's unreasonable for a developer to request money for merely tweaking a ROM, it's the same as a painter painting your living room. He's not made you a brand new living room from scratch. He's just painted your existing one. That's similar to a ROM tweaker.
That said, I do understand and abide by the rules - I'm not arguing them. Just playing devil's advocate.
lowandbehold said:
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
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Not sure if you are asking me. I have a Droid Charge.
F2504x4 said:
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
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This is one of the best posts I have seen on xda. Judging by this, the developer who posted a no effort ROM in a stagnant phone development scene who says donate and does nothing with the ROM is nothing but a modern day P.T. Barnum.
First of all, you don't have to donate
But I agree with OP it's not done to demand donations to finish work.
If your work is good and you support it well, possibilities for a donation are much higher.
But it is no guarantee for donations.
But isn't respect from others the best payment for your work? That's the reason I do my share for the community