Related
Hi there,
I have been reaidng this thread since I bougth my HTC touch and it has been great help.
Before I start talkign about the issues I would like to thank everyone in here for all the hard work towards the community and all the work done by the moderators to make sure the forum is a clean and easy place to navigate in.
now on the issues .
I noticed lately that since a few users got promoted to moderator all I see is padlocks on half of the threads.
I am not against closing threads that already have an answer in the forum "by providing a link if possible" but it is more about closing the normal questions.
I have seen many threads benig closed straight away at the first answer and not giving anyone here the chance to add something or give an alternative answer or even say that the answer did not work????
The second behaviour I notcied was replying to a post froma moderator by actually editing the post itself and adding an answer on the bottom of it rather than replying like everyone else.
I would like to read other users opinion about this and have a great day.
i don't think there is anything wrong with closing the unnecessary threads. most of the threads which were closed were related to someone flashing a wrong ROM on his elf/elfin or not using the correct USPL. there are already a few threads for these kind of issues, so why create new threads? it has been said many times to reply in the existing threads, but most of the people don't follow this. i've,personally, tried to help of those people stuck with these kind of problems even though i could have told them to read. and once their problem is solved, there is no need for such type of NEW threads, so mods chose to close them.
as far as editing the posts, i think mods are only trying to help us to keep the forums as clean as possible so that a new user can read only the most relevant information without having to read 10-15 pages.
Although Aman (htctouchp, another dedicated-to-XDA & talented member) has explained to you about the policy followed especially in Elf forums, I would like to elaborate on a few things though
I presume you were refering to my posts
I agree with what you feeling brother. Even I used to feel the same when I had just started on XDA. I used to open new threads asking questions or trying to take guidance from the experts here, forgetting that some day I will have to take the responsibility of ensuring that the forum remains clean
Talking about clean thread, we dont close or delete threads because we despise new members (whom I dont prefer to refer as *Noobs*) (definately not that we do) but because we want everyone to reach the relevant informative easily without having to go through 150 pages of the forum. This Elf / ElfIn forums are being moderated largely by me and Noonski (although he is currently busy cooking wonderful ROMs and buying new shoes )
Also at the same time if you have observed, the threads are closed and left in the forum (not deleted) because somewhere a link to answer for the question which is asked is posted in that thread or some information has been provided by certain member. The thread is closed after this to avoid further crowding in that thread and the new members having to go through more pages trying to find the answers they seek and finally opening a new thread again for the same question
Same reason why a post is edited so when a new member views the thread, he can find the question with the answer itself
Hope I have been clear in communicating the reasons and we all do appreciate the fact that dedicated members like yourself do come here on XDA to find answers and guidance from the experts
Now I will close this thread once you are through reading this (I'm kidding) But I would certainly edit the subject of the thread to something moderate that will surely make members come in and post their views
Well i think you have a valid point.
But if you know the usual behaviour of most users it's laziness.
I can only say that when i start a thread to do Data Collection and compression it only leaves an easier to read thread.
This has only happened on one thread where it was mentioned in the first post.
Yes it can be seen as misuse of power which it isn't.
A user can always reedit his or her post, and no one has done so.
Truth is that i would not be able to if i was not a mod there would not be a way to get a compact and information related thread, so that does make it a very valid point you make.
But a user does get the immediate answer to the question instead of getting it posts after that. I then try to delete only my own posts.
All i'm doing is try to make a thread as easy as possible to read instead of going through pages and not seeing the answer, then ask about it and get the answer that it has already been handled in the thread.
I could go back to the answer 4 questions in one post, but long posts also have the effect that people don't want to read them.
This is definetly worth the discussion.
But a viewpoint most not be forgotten that it is mainly been done to make things easier.
It's long threads that make users start new threads about the same thing.
See? This is the reason why we would want the forums to be clean. This is already discussed in the stickies just above their new threads (which are gonna see the padlocks soon)
htc update
6.1
Elf0100: cid=00 > ruu:error294
How to remove the bottom bar in today screen?
NEED HELP
I agree with the mods, but I do fell some kind or something is missing. maybe I'm not an average user, but I do enjoy reading 15-20 pages of information, searching something like crazy is my second hobby. Sometimes laugh or mad if peoples asking question that already known. To sum up , when i was a noob.... (I'm proud to say that, cause now I'm half NOOB ) I learn a lot by reading pageS to pageS, I like this forum alot by clicking that seach button many2 times
Hi everyone,
Thanks fot he replies and I need to mention something.
I think the forum is a lot cleaner and easier to read since the cleaning started and I agree with probabaly "and this is personal opinion obviously" with %95 of the thraeds closed especially when the answer exists and is easy to find.
Ah...I forgot to say thanks for the mod that renamed my thread as it reflects more what I wanted to talk about and get users involced in.
Basically my main point is more about having different opinions and views on the subet especially when a person comes along and ask how to fix a certain issue then the post should be left open even if the answer has been provided as the same thread might revive after a year or more where another person would look for the answer - find it - and then it probably won't work due to obscur reasons or probably just because it is a newer build - then the person will just post on that same thread rather than open a new one.
By the way ababrekar I did not refer to you at all in what I said and I generally don't read who edited or closed what.
I used to be a mod myself in a similar forum "tech oriented" and I know it is not easy task and you are not paid for what you do so again thank you for all you do to the community.
I will stop here for the moment and wait and see what other members think about this - there arn't many interested in this
K.
Not many interested parties to keep this thread alive
Kar brother, can I close this thread now? You advice
ababrekar said:
Not many interested parties to keep this thread alive
Kar brother, can I close this thread now? You advice
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No keep it alive definitly.
You know that not everyone goes to page two or three of the forum, and it needed a little bump.
It gives people a good platform to express themselves in the good way that kar did.
But maybe kar is a sister? (no pun intended)
Noonski said:
No keep it alive definitly.
You know that not everyone goes to page two or three of the forum, and it needed a little bump.
It gives people a good platform to express themselves in the good way that kar did.
But maybe kar is a sister? (no pun intended)
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Just posted something that makes the thread come back to page 1 Even I'm not intending to close this one. First I thought it would create fights but turned out interesting thread
Kar200 is definately a borther ... otherwise if you want to close this post I don't see any problem with this and I thought more people probably would have expressed their thoughts about the question but apparently everyone "including me" is more interested in knowing what new rom has been cooked for them so they can try it .
i have kept a close look on this thread for a while. and my opinion is this thread be kept for sometime. not much has been expressed here by other members. but i see this is one of a kind thread in the elf forum. and it gives an opportunity to express concern and at the same time to show appreciation.
thankx kar200 and all others in this thread. lets work out any concerns we have over the elf forum in this single thread
To post or not to post?
While i do agree, that the forum needs to be clean and its users repsecting the rules etc.... human nature as Noonski pointed out is laziness! so there will always be threads being opened. I think that most junior members will fall into this catergory (and this is NOT a dig at them but merely an observation ) but can be to a certain degree understandable/acceptable. Would you agree? If, however this is done by people who have been around for some time, then by all means close the thread and flame the user - they should know better.
As a thought, maybe some guidlines from the Mods here (Ameet and Noonski) re how long a 'repeated' thread will be kept open?
From a personal perspective, i have never needed to open a thread or even post that often specifically because i have always found what i needed from reading.... (which i kinda enjoy silly me)
I think for someone new to the scene and first coming here, it can be quite overwhelming. There is tons of information available, but where do you start? So from that perspective I can understand why someone would start a new thread. On the other hand, looking at myself when I first came here... all I did was dig through the piles of information just reading, not looking for something specific but just gathering as much info on any subject as I could.
As for the thread closing and modifying posts. The closing of threads depends on whats going on in the thread. Closing a thread on the first available answer can leave some users without a clue because the given answer wont work for them, and the cant reply on the thread to continue asking. Which can be a missed opportunity to add more useful data to the forums if someone has a different solution to the problem.
Modding the answer into the posters question can lead to some confusion if you ask me Only a mod has the uberpower to edit a users post, so if there is a mod nearby that had a good comment you have to look at your own posts, but you also have to look at the end of the thread to see if someone posted usefulness in case your post was not modified (hihi MODified ).
Biffert said:
I think for someone new to the scene and first coming here, it can be quite overwhelming. There is tons of information available, but where do you start? So from that perspective I can understand why someone would start a new thread. On the other hand, looking at myself when I first came here... all I did was dig through the piles of information just reading, not looking for something specific but just gathering as much info on any subject as I could.
As for the thread closing and modifying posts. The closing of threads depends on whats going on in the thread. Closing a thread on the first available answer can leave some users without a clue because the given answer wont work for them, and the cant reply on the thread to continue asking. Which can be a missed opportunity to add more useful data to the forums if someone has a different solution to the problem.
Modding the answer into the posters question can lead to some confusion if you ask me Only a mod has the uberpower to edit a users post, so if there is a mod nearby that had a good comment you have to look at your own posts, but you also have to look at the end of the thread to see if someone posted usefulness in case your post was not modified (hihi MODified ).
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I Am Cornelio, Need Dippy For My BungHole.
Where you been Biffert, enjoyed your vacation?
This has only happened on a specific Beta Thread
Noonski said:
I Am Cornelio, Need Dippy For My BungHole.
Where you been Biffert, enjoyed your vacation?
This has only happened on a specific Beta Thread
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I know, but it was more of a big picture perspective on the matter Ive been reading the thread as well and saw the request for some opinions so I thought, why not
Biffert said:
I know, but it was more of a big picture perspective on the matter Ive been reading the thread as well and saw the request for some opinions so I thought, why not
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I'm just to excited because i just ordered My Pro.
Gotta run Print and sign the contract.
But still Where you been?
Do tell or i'll fill it in myself
Noonski said:
I'm just to excited because i just ordered My Pro.
Gotta run Print and sign the contract.
But still Where you been?
Do tell or i'll fill it in myself
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Ive been finishing school and landed a job as a software engineer/consultant (And vacation ofcourse - Poland and Tsjech republic)
No Pro for me yet, still playing with my Touch (cant wait for the new Surface btw) and Kaiser
So its all good here
Edit: Bit of topic here, sorry bout that.
trashing threads too early create confusion!!!
Biffert said:
I think for someone new to the scene and first coming here, it can be quite overwhelming. There is tons of information available, but where do you start? So from that perspective I can understand why someone would start a new thread. On the other hand, looking at myself when I first came here... all I did was dig through the piles of information just reading, not looking for something specific but just gathering as much info on any subject as I could.
As for the thread closing and modifying posts. The closing of threads depends on whats going on in the thread. Closing a thread on the first available answer can leave some users without a clue because the given answer wont work for them, and the cant reply on the thread to continue asking. Which can be a missed opportunity to add more useful data to the forums if someone has a different solution to the problem.
Modding the answer into the posters question can lead to some confusion if you ask me Only a mod has the uberpower to edit a users post, so if there is a mod nearby that had a good comment you have to look at your own posts, but you also have to look at the end of the thread to see if someone posted usefulness in case your post was not modified (hihi MODified ).
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EXACTLY!
even if an answer has been already given...a thread shudnt be closed so early. cos the user has to check and then give feedback on whether it has worked or not.
i respect the work of the mods...but somehow i cant fully support the idea of kabooming threads when a single answer or a re-directing link to an answer has been given. also note that, a new user tries to follow the thread he has created and which HAS the answers given mainly by other members....so when the user looks back...the help given or the helpful posts made in that thread is also missing. this creates confusion. and the end result....new threads too. at a point where closing a thread is justified is okay...but trashing a thread...wud and WILL only create confusion and misleading guidance. I hope this sentence is fully understood and looked into.
So, in my opinion, this does hinder what we are ALL here to do. To help out so called noobs!!!! This is finally what made me speak out here, cos i have witnessed a few cases, where some users has been lost into the advent of search button!
WHEW! Finally i hope i have shed some light on this debate too.
respect and peace to all members!
ayyu3m said:
EXACTLY!
even if an answer has been already given...a thread shudnt be closed so early. cos the user has to check and then give feedback on whether it has worked or not.
i respect the work of the mods...but somehow i cant fully support the idea of kabooming threads when a single answer or a re-directing link to an answer has been given. also note that, a new user tries to follow the thread he has created and which HAS the answers given mainly by other members....so when the user looks back...the help given or the helpful posts made in that thread is also missing. this creates confusion. and the end result....new threads too. at a point where closing a thread is justified is okay...but trashing a thread...wud and WILL only create confusion and misleading guidance. I hope this sentence is fully understood and looked into.
So, in my opinion, this does hinder what we are ALL here to do. To help out so called noobs!!!! This is finally what made me speak out here, cos i have witnessed a few cases, where some users has been lost into the advent of search button!
WHEW! Finally i hope i have shed some light on this debate too.
respect and peace to all members!
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This definitely goes for the Elf Rom Development thread now.
It's already good and cleaned.
I did notice that i do carry over the policy from a few other threads.
I'm all over the place, and at development a thread is fairly quickly moved if it does not belong there.
You should see how many reported posts come into my mailinbox.
The funny thing is that actually the hardcore cleaning stopped, just at the moment this thread got started.
So it now mostly is focused on going through old threads and going through their importance.
So for a while (and still) we have to be very straight forward.
Just look at the Diamond Forum with 845 Threads, and it's only been out for a short while. So over there there really is a now mercy policy that most mods agree on at the moment.
So the policy used there does not apply to the touch thread (not by a long shot).
A you can imagine how easily you start applying these rules.
I heard one user say "It's not a democracy here" in defense of the mods.
Truth is that it is a bit grayish on that matter, Most reported posts are submitted by users. (not the matter in ELF Forums).
So i can say that in the case of ELF forum i'll be mostly going through the very old posts and do some data compression if need be.
I'm getting a bit cheesed off - is something seriously wrong with the forum?
For about the last week I've had problems with the "read" function with it not highlighting threads that have been updated since my last visit like it used to, and now we seen to have loads of "moved" threads that just point to the Q&A thread at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=477235
What's going on?
Cheers,
Steve.
Perhaps instead of being cheesed, you should have don some additional reading. Did you try reading the first post in the thread all of those post are being routed to? In an effort to control the outrageous amount of new threads being started every day, we have begun consolidating them all into a single random questions and answers thread where the knowledgeable users will be able to look through and answer the questions from a single location.
As for the issue with unread threads, that has to do with a change in the way that the server is tracking the cookies. To mark all threads as read up to this point, just lick on "mark all read" at the bottom of the page of the main forum page.
Post Regarding New Q&A Thread
Thread Regarding Marked As Read Issue
IMO, merging individual questions into one thread makes searching for answers more difficult.
whosy11 said:
IMO, merging individual questions into one thread makes searching for answers more difficult.
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I have to agree, especially when people don't quote what they are responding to. You often have different threads of discussion going on and it can get quite confusing.
I understand the desire to avoid lots of duplicate threads, but surely all that's going to happen is we'll end up with lots of duplicate messages in one HUGE thread?
I still maintain that the "Just a redirect from Raph Rom Development." and "Just a redirect from Raphael Software." in the first two messages, which is where you end up when you click a "moved" thread, isn't terribly descriptive of what's going on.
I understand that moderating a forum like this is no easy task, but by trying to impose a generic "Questions and Answers" thread, aren't you trying to put about 80% of the forum content into one thread?
Cheers,
Steve.
I completely agree, making one long thread and moving post after post to it in the name of "consolidation" is just irritating. I was wondering when people were going to start speaking up about that. Forums need moderation, but when it becomes as heavy-handed as it has here, the forum loses some of it's usefulness, it also becomes much less fun to surf.
StevePritchard said:
I understand that moderating a forum like this is no easy task, but by trying to impose a generic "Questions and Answers" thread, aren't you trying to put about 80% of the forum content into one thread?
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To be completely fair, 80% of the forum content is not in that Q&A thread. Most of the actual content is located in the many threads that are not consolidated. Most of what is being consolidated into that thread is questions by people who were too lazy to research their issue, or at least read the "read this before posting" which states that you should always try to post your issue in a preexisting thread first.
While this format might make it slightly less usable for the people who are 30 new threads of random questions a day, it absolutely does not have that effect for the users who are answering the bulk of these questions anyway.
That being said, your concerns have been noted, and we will consider other possible solutions, but i don not believe any of you who are complaining truly understand how much time and work goes into keeping this place in order. For example, last night there were 4,000 people on the site, and 3 moderators signed in. I merged about 30 threads yesterday alone, which is why there are so many redirects right now. I leave them for 1 day so that people looking for their thread can find it. The FIRST post states exactly what the Q&A Thread is for, and the second and 3rd posts right now are just used to direct people to the correct location for placing those questions. If it bothers you that so many threads are being merged, perhaps encourage users to post their questions in the right location. Then i wouldn't need to move anything.
I think this was a poor decision. I use(d) this forum to answer my questions which likely had already been asked and answered by someone else. But with the new 31 page Q&A thread, even if a search revealed that my question might possibly exist in that thread, there is no way for me to find it without reading (or at least scanning) all 31 pages. And then, if I'm lucky enough to find the question, I have no idea which responses go to that question. The Mod said to quote the original question, but many don't. Also, would it be better to put the original question in the title (subject) line so you would only have to scan the titles?
Personally, a Q&A forum with its own individual threads would be much preferred. I know most of you who know all there is about the Raphael think this might be a good idea, but, please consider the many (and I'm sure more to come) who don't know all that much, and have simple questions, which have been answered, but impossible to find.
Thanks for listening, and a big Thank You to all who help those of us new to HTC phones and WM devices.
-Rick
Please don't take offense...
but, let's face it, the people who are generating the most complaints about the decision are people who don't really do a lot of contributing to the forum. Those who actually do make notable contributions understand the constraints with which we are functioning, and generally feel that while this isn't ideal, it's a step in the right direction. I am terribly sorry for those who might have to do slightly more work, but let's face it, most of these answers are already out there, and that's where we get a lot of the answers which are provided. Scanning through a few pages of posts just really doesn't take THAT much time.
As I think this thread has outlived it's usefulness, which was mostly to inform people of what has happened, I am closing it now.
I am posting this because of what this user said and got flamed because it,
so about posting and searching on XDA...
As it turns out when I do a search for a topic the little search bar gives me EVERYTHING I dont need.. and NOTHING about what I do.. I understand that a lot of people just post new threads about the same crud but still, instead of just jumping down their throats take time to listen and tell them and, if you know, where to find the topic they are looking for .. perhaps with a link and a polite comment.
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Guy's in case you are not aware of it....here are new rules are regarding Flaming etc etc....And with the recent flaming of a member here...here is a quote from the new rules ...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=263
by Flar Administrator
2. Be polite and respect your fellow xda-dev user.
There is no need for cursing, flaming, racism or personal attacks. There are a lot of different nationalities on this forum all with different cultures, this means that no matter what you're like, you'll have to adjust to people that are most definitely not like you. It will gain you a lot of respect if you help to keep the peace. It's disrespectful and therefore not permitted to create Alias Member names in an attempt to deceive others.
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Now this user post a thread and even stated he had trouble with the search not finding what he was looking for, and yet several member just had to flame him , mostly newbies that have been here a short time themselves.
And I ask the mods to help re-enforce these rules and send the message to we need to be respectful of each other....and yes I know this is in the Development forum, but since it is happening in here , many of the users need to be reminded of it..
As to the Search engine here on XDA well it does lack the ability to weed out Il-Revelate info so till it can , keep in mind that many users do attempt to search for the info but the search results do not give them what they seek, so let just help out the user and answer there question and move on...
or just do not reply period if you can not be helpful..
There's a rule before that one that says to "Search Before Posting"
the only time I am hard on newbies is if they don't search or do work themselves. And if you're referring to the thread I think you're referring to, you should know that I've actually received a PM from that individual, and we have both explained our views very plainly and I am awaiting his reply.
I'm actually working on a project to avoid these problems in the future. You'll like it. But note that this is also kind of an attack against everyone here, though you have a valid point, perhaps this would be better personally and politely sent to those whom you think are at fault in a PM?
Edit: yeah, you're right, it does often turn up irrelevant info, but if you see threads getting pulled up, click the thread and search within the thread to find relevant posts in the thread. Also, the thread title for this thread, though I see you're trying to get everyone's attention for it, is misleading and inappropriate for the topic at hand.
I respect both of you and see that you both have valid points, there is a fine line to be walked when it comes to this, I think it comes down to treating others as you would want to be treated. I am amazed at how much I learn when I am just trying to help someone else out! So that being said, I think it can do a person some good to devote some of their time on XDA everyday to helping someone out, even five min can make a difference to somebody, might even save them a $300 phone! And thats all I have to say about that! (Forest Gump)
Trav ,
first off this is not meant as a attack but it did need to be strongly word...granted you are correct that it does comes off that way...and i know that there are a great many here do go out of there way to help others..To those this thread is not directed at you.
As to the title ...well it seems that the banner displaying the new rules info is not getting the attention of small group that still continue the flaming...hence the title...
More users and mods need to get the message across to those that do the flaming and are disrespectful to others needs to stop...
Cal-El said:
(Forest Gump)
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y'know my momma always said that life is like a box of chocolates, you never do know which one you're going to get.
Travito said:
y'know my momma always said that life is like a box of chocolates, you never do know which one you're going to get.
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can you post link to this flamed thread so that others can look at it?
I see this thread has been moved...
I have a suggestion then...if the mods are going to remove threads like this that bring attention to issues that are going on in the forum then more attention needs to be paid to those users who flame and disrespect others in those forums........
Here is my suggestion on how to handle them.. when mods read a thread that has flaming going on in it...before locking it...they need to make a post addressing the flaming issue and point it out what will happen if it continues..
Maybe consider bringing on more mods to help with the work load that the current ones are dealing with, I am not knocking the current ones, .they do a great job , but this is a huge site and it is growing fast .
BTw this thread was originally in the Kaiser Rom forum where the problem originally occurred and still continues..
F2504x4 said:
I see this thread has been moved...
I have a suggestion then...if the mods are going to remove threads like this that bring attention to issues that are going on in the forum then more attention needs to be paid to those users who flame and disrespect others in those forums........
Here is my suggestion on how to handle them.. when mods read a thread that has flaming going on in it...before locking it...they need to make a post addressing the flaming issue and point it out what will happen if it continues..
Maybe consider bringing on more mods to help with the work load that the current ones are dealing with, I am not knocking the current ones, .they do a great job , but this is a huge site and it is growing fast .
BTw this thread was originally in the Kaiser Rom forum where the problem originally occurred and still continues..
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they have 60 mods and will not be bringing on more, thats what i was told by a mod, do you have a link to the thread in question?
msd24200 said:
they have 60 mods and will not be bringing on more, thats what i was told by a mod, do you have a link to the thread in question?
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Hmmm 60 mods interesting..
Link? just look in many of the forums..this is not a new problem...
but it is a very easily fixable one ...
by enforcing this
by Flar Administrator
2. Be polite and respect your fellow xda-dev user.
There is no need for cursing, flaming, racism or personal attacks. There are a lot of different nationalities on this forum all with different cultures, this means that no matter what you're like, you'll have to adjust to people that are most definitely not like you. It will gain you a lot of respect if you help to keep the peace. It's disrespectful and therefore not permitted to create Alias Member names in an attempt to deceive others.
Here is a link so that people can read the WHOLE thread, instead of the tiny bit you took out of context. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=494625
The guy got flamed ( and I did not consider that flaming) because he posted a belligerent and antagonizing thread in the ( wrong ) rom development forum, not because he was a noob politely asking for help.
If you are going to take the members of this forum to task, do it with all the information please.
denco7 said:
Here is a link so that people can read the WHOLE thread, instead of the tiny bit you took out of context. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=494625
The guy got flamed ( and I did not consider that flaming) because he posted a belligerent and antagonizing thread in the ( wrong ) rom development forum, not because he was a noob politely asking for help.
If you are going to take the members of this forum to task, do it with all the information please.
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If you really want to get to the real reason behind this thread ...what caused him to make that post in the first place huh? do you know ? could it be that he asked a simple question and got the usual responses ? nawww
I was not going to drag that user into this thread like you have....I felt he has caught enough flak as it is...so what do you think will be gained by you dragging his name into this...?
Cause and effect...and his thread is not the only time someone got flamed for asking a simple question is it now ? EVEN AFTER they stated they had tried to use the search .
I wonder if you will answer these questions / or was your intent to attempt to turn the tables away from the real issue at hand ?
Btw that thread was closed with only one response from a mod..
As to the part i used....that is the main point of this thread incase you missed it..
F2504x4 said:
As to the Search engine here on XDA well it does lack the ability to weed out Il-Revelate info so till it can , keep in mind that many users do attempt to search for the info but the search results do not give them what they seek, so let just help out the user and answer there question and move on...
or just do not reply period if you can not be helpful..
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Well, I agree with you and believe me that most mods are actually enforcing the flaming when they see it. I have seen full threads stopped in their tracks prior to becoming flame wars.
Now, the search engine thing is kinda like a vicious cycle. All the new threads and posts started with commonly asked questions will only add more to the results coming out in the search engine. So, each time someone else uses the engine, he/she will get one million plus one posts. After being annoyed due to not finding the answer they were looking for after the first few posts they go through, they feel they need to make their voices heard and hence a new thread is born.... adding more stuff that the search engine will pull up each time someone looks for that particular subject.
Is there a way around this? Maybe...
Do we know it? Sure as hell not yet, but we have to keep on fighting...
F2504x4 said:
If you really want to get to the real reason behind this thread ...what caused him to make that post in the first place huh? do you know ? could it be that he asked a simple question and got the usual responses ? nawww
I was not going to drag that user into this thread like you have....I felt he has caught enough flak as it is...so what do you think will be gained by you dragging his name into this...?
Cause and effect...and his thread is not the only time someone got flamed for asking a simple question is it now ? EVEN AFTER they stated they had tried to use the search .
I wonder if you will answer these questions / or was your intent to attempt to turn the tables away from the real issue at hand ?
Btw that thread was closed with only one response from a mod..
As to the part i used....that is the main point of this thread incase you missed it..
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Click to collapse
Unlike you, when I see a post like this I go straight to the persons profile page to see where they are coming from.
This was his sixth over all post, out of the five previous posts, he received immediate answers to 2 of his questions, one of his questions went unanswered in a 150 page thread and his other two questions were answered by Noonski ( mod ). Noonski answered his final question with a polite, " the question has already been answered in thread."
Noonski said:
Aah that Menu.
Since it has been noted before in the thread i won't anwser the qwuestion, but i will hint.
There is a mortscript in the folder \Windows\Startup.
Removing one of those files will get rid of the menu.
**** i answered the question anyway.
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Click to collapse
At which point he switched from the wizard to the Kaiser and without any further posts, started this ranting ( no question, mind you, just ranting ) in the Kaiser Rom Dev forum.
The thread speaks for itself. What I am saying, is if you want to take the other members of this forum to task, then do it with your own thoughts and opinions. Or at least use credible examples of abuse,
You lose all credibility when you carefully edit, out of context, examples like you did, that really had nothing to do with your point. If you want to rant, stand up and rail away ( I'm not a real big fan of some of the moderation on this site either ) against the other members, but please note that this guy ( in the wrong forum ) came totally out of left field with this rant, so can you please find better examples, perhaps from people who have in fact been polite and courteous and have gotten flamed anyway for asking a simple question.
I wonder if you will answer these questions / or was your intent to attempt to turn the tables away from the real issue at hand ?
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Click to collapse
My track record for helping people speaks for itself, you are more than welcome to review each and every one of my 980 posts, along with the 1300 posts I have over at htcwiki.com , for any flaming. While sometimes I use humor to chide people, I am one of the good guys.
denco7 said:
Unlike you, when I see a post like this I go straight to the persons profile page to see where they are coming from.
My track record for helping people speaks for itself, you are more than welcome to review each and every one of my 980 posts, along with the 1300 posts I have over at htcwiki.com , for any flaming. While sometimes I use humor to chide people, I am one of the good guys.
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Denco7,
I do not go to a persons profile, why not ? well i look at the post just like most users do....and part of the problem is that newbies will see flaming and will think that it is okay to do it, especially after if a mod has replied to the thread and says nothing about the flaming and or disrespect that went on , so this small group will think it is okay to post insults , non revelate comments, basically they think since a mod did not say anything, they feel it is okay to do it...
As to your track record I have seen you help out newbies with out really flaming them, so i do not consider you part of the overall problem..
but I do have issue with why you felt the need to bring this user and post up his info...when it was not necessary, I am still wondering why you did it..when this issue surrounds flamming those that state they used the search engine but with no luck...
F2504x4 said:
but I do have issue with why you felt the need to bring this user and post up his info...when it was not necessary, I am still wondering why you did it..when this issue surrounds flamming those that state they used the search engine but with no luck...
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Click to collapse
Because many people read that thread and I thought your overall good message was getting over shadowed by your choice of examples. Unfortunately the person you used as the rallying point of your message was belligerent and antagonistic, which is why he was written off by the other members and eventually the mods. He was never wronged and his rant was baseless and unconstructive, I didn't want to see your message written off by a the poor example you chose as a rallying point.
He did not use the search engine because he had no question, only a rant in an inappropriate forum.
People are to lazy to search
While behaviour breeds behaviour. So starting a flame war is not great. IMO. I will just normally reply with something helpful especially when the search can be somewhat daunting on any site.
I think! here is a good example of someone clearly fabricating the truth about "I tried searching" when they clearly haven't.
Here is a quoted message from another forum...
Quote:
Originally Posted by infection0
I lay in bed so I turn the phone on its side a lot. Unfortunately this results in the phone rotating Opera so I can't see it. I tried searching but I can't find it... how do I disable Opera Auto rotate by registry?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my reply.
Searching in google with the phrase "disable Opera Auto" yields many results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I even included the cab file and a link to a post.
Well, thats just me.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
denco7 said:
Here is a link so that people can read the WHOLE thread, instead of the tiny bit you took out of context. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=494625
The guy got flamed ( and I did not consider that flaming) because he posted a belligerent and antagonizing thread in the ( wrong ) rom development forum, not because he was a noob politely asking for help.
If you are going to take the members of this forum to task, do it with all the information please.
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Click to collapse
thanks denco, i had already read that thread, but didn't know that was the thread in question, but i did have a feeling it might have been.
EDIT: WHAT DOES THIS THREAD HAVE TO DO WITH RULES OF SEX?
every one that can read will have a different opinion on what is considered flaming i guess. how about we just sticky to the first page of all forums a new thread entitled:
"i need help, ask your questions here if you don't know where to properly ask them"
then newbs & old but rarely on here members can go and ask there questions, and those of us that are extremely active can go into that thread if we choose to, to help out those people?
xda could even fix it to where if you post a new thread it would have to be viewed by a mod or admin and get approval before it showed up on a forum?
msd24200 said:
. how about we just sticky to the first page of all forums a new thread entitled:
"i need help, ask your questions here if you don't know where to properly ask them"
then newbs & old but rarely on here members can go and ask there questions, and those of us that are extremely active can go into that thread if we choose to, to help out those people?
xda could even fix it to where if you post a new thread it would have to be viewed by a mod or admin and get approval before it showed up on a forum?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good idea, and instead of having mods approve the question , just set the thread to automatically purge the posts after 48 hrs..
Got some cleanup requests already, so I figured this might help.
The thing with dev thread "spam" is that it is really in the eye of the beholder. :cyclops:
Ultimately it is up to us mods of course but getting some guidance by the devs would be helpful. We can do a thread cleaning on request of the OP, but what I view as "spam" is not necessarily the same as wardfan220's definition of spam. Or the OP's definition of spam.
Everybody knows it when they see it, but what I see is not what you see.
Please do not respond to those posts or troll or flame the poster. Instead, click on the little triangle button in the upper corner of the post and report it so that wardfan220 and I might deal with it appropriately. We aren't trying to stop people from posting, we are trying to teach them to post appropriately.
Some general types of posts that get reported are:
"Thanks for a great ROM" posts
"ETA" posts
"Bug reports" without proper troubleshooting or logging
"Didn't read the OP" posts
Off Topic for various reasons
Please consider this from two angles. What is unacceptable from a new user with 10 posts is often tolerated or even acceptable when done by a senior member or a dev team member for each example above. This can often lead to a perception of unfairness, from both sides.
We will get PM's by new users asking, "why did you delete my "thanks" post in the dev thread and not delete member xxxxxxx's "thanks" post? Is it because member xxxxxxx has 150 posts and I have 10?"
We will get PM's from current users asking "why did you delete my Only-Slightly-Off-Topic post in the dev thread? I have been a good member and it was just a little off topic and the dev doesn't mind".
If the devs could write up some general rules or guidelines as to what they find acceptable or not in their first or second post, when they ask for a thread cleaning or when members report posts as "dev thread spam", it would be very helpful to us making a more informed decision on what is spam and what is not, and have a better chance of getting the dev/OPs desired results, whether in avoiding posts or after the party cleanup.
Discussions and thoughts are welcome.
Thank you,
mf2112
^^ I agree that there is a very fine line between what's acceptable and what's not.
Earlier, I planned on making an "Etiquette thread" just for general guidance, but seeing some replies from fellow members on other thread, gave up on it.
One thing I believe in is that asking for ETA is definitely spam, irrespective of what beautiful wrapper it's wrapped in, because it basically undermines whatever the developer has done so far, in her/her personal time. So, if reported, these posts should be warned.
Other thing I believe is people should be more lenient towards "New users". Instead of scaring them away, or instead of spoonfeeding them with answers, they should be directed to correct thread, where they can read/understand what's going on, and maybe be directed towards development/modding/porting/etc. That's the only way 9003 would be out of "low activity device"
Will add more(got some more as I did a lot of thinking on this) later on, as I need to get a haircut now.
Thanks for this discussion.
Well i admit i am pretty aggressive to noobs which is wrong and against the rules in the first place, but some of them just get on my nerves.
They sometimes just call me or a dev fags / (place world's insults here) for helping them with their question and then sticking a "It's not the right place to ask such questions' note or because a dev is taking his time and not updating something every second.
Others also ignore all other posts / instructions, ask the same question and keep spamming and not accepting to follow the installation instructions again, they don't even post a logcat/whatever to support their claims.
I mostly resort to being a little aggressive and reporting the post if they don't cooperate.. Now i am not a mod, but i don't like being treated like that or seeing some respected member getting insulted because of a fat lazy noob not doing anything and insulting everyone.
Conclusion:
I agree with everything you said here and i do think mods should work with devs and members directly and should take some serious actions against offenders from now on.
I really feel bad for you with having to deal with such issues daily
Goodluck!
Has there been any luck with this idea?
Have devs even attempted it or just ignored this post?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Not much response, but that's ok.
That's a shame really because it's a really good idea.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
This is generally a concern from a friend and I will not be responding to any post or pms from this. (from anyone)
"
I have recently noticed that numerous developers have had their pages deleted because of in proper layout.
1st of all this makes sense that it should be in a the proper layout, but.......... big but here, does that mean delete it before they even get a warning. most developers are doing this on their own time and have their own fans to keep happy. Therefore because a simple source or gitcode is not in place right away, doesn't mean it should be deleted right away. Warn the people first, kinda makes the moderators look like their power hungry and also make people not want to be here. There's a fine line between being moderated or just an _____.
2nd not everyone is going to see the rules right away or may easiely forget to add something to it. This does not give it a right for deletion. Also, note there are many other developers that people have noticed that are no way in these rules and are still up? so makes u curious.....
Anyway I'm not bashing anyone on this, I just feel that the admin should start filtering some moderators for that bad ones. Every forum has at least one dud and it completely ruins the site.
As I said before, I will not be responding to anything from this post or pms. If I get banned fro simply posting a concern and not bashing,it just proves this even more. Or if the page gets deleted.
I think it will be good for the forum if you can see some other peoples views on this issue.
Best of luck with everything, with this hopefully positive feedback.
"
(This was for my friend who was looking for a nexus 7 thread for hours to only find out it was deleted, not my own words to a degree)
Bludra said:
This is generally a concern from a friend and I will not be responding to any post or pms from this. (from anyone)
"
I have recently noticed that numerous developers have had their pages deleted because of in proper layout.
1st of all this makes sense that it should be in a the proper layout, but.......... big but here, does that mean delete it before they even get a warning. most developers are doing this on their own time and have their own fans to keep happy. Therefore because a simple source or gitcode is not in place right away, doesn't mean it should be deleted right away. Warn the people first, kinda makes the moderators look like their power hungry and also make people not want to be here. There's a fine line between being moderated or just an _____.
2nd not everyone is going to see the rules right away or may easiely forget to add something to it. This does not give it a right for deletion. Also, note there are many other developers that people have noticed that are no way in these rules and are still up? so makes u curious.....
Anyway I'm not bashing anyone on this, I just feel that the admin should start filtering some moderators for that bad ones. Every forum has at least one dud and it completely ruins the site.
As I said before, I will not be responding to anything from this post or pms. If I get banned fro simply posting a concern and not bashing,it just proves this even more. Or if the page gets deleted.
I think it will be good for the forum if you can see some other peoples views on this issue.
Best of luck with everything, with this hopefully positive feedback.
"
(This was for my friend who was looking for a nexus 7 thread for hours to only find out it was deleted, not my own words to a degree)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Threads can be removed from site until the OP is updated to work with the rules. Just because users cant see it doesnt mean it was deleted. There is always a warning given before a thread is deleted. As for keeping fans happy. Boy are you in the wrong place. This is no concern here as this is a Developers site made for and by developers to share work with each other.
For 2. There is no excuse for this. Everyone sees the rules when they join.
zelendel said:
Threads can be removed from site until the OP is updated to work with the rules. Just because users cant see it doesnt mean it was deleted. There is always a warning given before a thread is deleted. As for keeping fans happy. Boy are you in the wrong place. This is no concern here as this is a Developers site made for and by developers to share work with each other.
For 2. There is no excuse for this. Everyone sees the rules when they join.
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Click to collapse
^^^^^^^This^^^^^^:good::good:
Bludra said:
This is generally a concern from a friend and I will not be responding to any post or pms from this. (from anyone) Best of luck with everything, with this hopefully positive feedback. "
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sir if there is an issue/or wish to compliment any Staff of XDA, there are measures in place to help in yours or anyone else's issues:
http://www.xda-developers.com/contact/
Thank you Sir.
Bludra said:
This is generally a concern from a friend and I will not be responding to any post or pms from this. (from anyone)
"
I have recently noticed that numerous developers have had their pages deleted because of in proper layout.
1st of all this makes sense that it should be in a the proper layout, but.......... big but here, does that mean delete it before they even get a warning. most developers are doing this on their own time and have their own fans to keep happy. Therefore because a simple source or gitcode is not in place right away, doesn't mean it should be deleted right away. Warn the people first, kinda makes the moderators look like their power hungry and also make people not want to be here. There's a fine line between being moderated or just an _____.
2nd not everyone is going to see the rules right away or may easiely forget to add something to it. This does not give it a right for deletion. Also, note there are many other developers that people have noticed that are no way in these rules and are still up? so makes u curious.....
Anyway I'm not bashing anyone on this, I just feel that the admin should start filtering some moderators for that bad ones. Every forum has at least one dud and it completely ruins the site.
As I said before, I will not be responding to anything from this post or pms. If I get banned fro simply posting a concern and not bashing,it just proves this even more. Or if the page gets deleted.
I think it will be good for the forum if you can see some other peoples views on this issue.
Best of luck with everything, with this hopefully positive feedback.
"
(This was for my friend who was looking for a nexus 7 thread for hours to only find out it was deleted, not my own words to a degree)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's also a fine line between coming to this site to contribute and thinking you or your "friend" are above the rules!
Rules are rules and if a moderator thinks a thread should be unapproved or deleted then guess what?....there's most likely a reason for this
Also if you're a developer, an RD then you sure as hell better know the rules by now........I mean, they're clearly posted for everyone to see...lol
Oh and about fans, that shouldn't come into play! Whether you're a lone developer just starting out or have a mob of fanboys.....rules are rules! Just because this developer has 10000000000000 kernels or roms or whatever doesn't mean he should get special treatment. AGAIN......rules are rules and if a developer is not held to those rules then how are you going to enforce them on a junior member?
Another thing, from my experience if I have an issue with a moderator.......contacting the moderator committee is the best route! Going off on the moderator or starting a thread complaining about this or that isn't always best.......it will only lead to more threads being closed down and infractions/bans passed around...lol
JUST MY TWO CENTS.......
Bludra said:
This is generally a concern from a friend and I will not be responding to any post or pms from this. (from anyone)
"
I have recently noticed that numerous developers have had their pages deleted because of in proper layout.
1st of all this makes sense that it should be in a the proper layout, but.......... big but here, does that mean delete it before they even get a warning. most developers are doing this on their own time and have their own fans to keep happy. Therefore because a simple source or gitcode is not in place right away, doesn't mean it should be deleted right away. Warn the people first, kinda makes the moderators look like their power hungry and also make people not want to be here. There's a fine line between being moderated or just an _____.
2nd not everyone is going to see the rules right away or may easiely forget to add something to it. This does not give it a right for deletion. Also, note there are many other developers that people have noticed that are no way in these rules and are still up? so makes u curious.....
Anyway I'm not bashing anyone on this, I just feel that the admin should start filtering some moderators for that bad ones. Every forum has at least one dud and it completely ruins the site.
As I said before, I will not be responding to anything from this post or pms. If I get banned fro simply posting a concern and not bashing,it just proves this even more. Or if the page gets deleted.
I think it will be good for the forum if you can see some other peoples views on this issue.
Best of luck with everything, with this hopefully positive feedback.
"
(This was for my friend who was looking for a nexus 7 thread for hours to only find out it was deleted, not my own words to a degree)
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Click to collapse
Pretty sure this was involving me since its being talked about in that g+ thread I was tagged in a have read.
This "rd" was sent a pm and explained why it was unapproved and couldve easily sent me a pm in response saying opps if U reappove I'll fix it real quick. Instead there was an insulting pm responded with and multiple bashing threads on site and off site yet the thread was still reapproved.
Forgetting something in an op is one thing. But blatantly doing it cause you don't have time or be cause you believe you are good enough to not have to comply with rules is another thing.
The nexus 4 section had multiple kernel devs get the same pm and everyone else complied with little to no fuss and went on their way.
Also this is a developers site so the whole fan thing means absolutely nothing here.
XDA Moderator
Papa Smurf151 said:
Pretty sure this was involving me since its being talked about in that g+ thread I was tagged in a have read.
This "rd" was sent a pm and explained why it was unapproved and couldve easily sent me a pm in response saying opps if U reappove I'll fix it real quick. Instead there was an insulting pm responded with and multiple bashing threads on site and off site yet the thread was still reapproved.
Forgetting something in an op is one thing. But blatantly doing it cause you don't have time or be cause you believe you are good enough to not have to comply with rules is another thing.
The nexus 4 section had multiple kernel devs get the same pm and everyone else complied with little to no fuss and went on their way.
Also this is a developers site so the whole fan thing means absolutely nothing here.
XDA Moderator
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Maybe I need to spend some more time in that section as I decide if I am getting the Nexus or not.
Now As this as run its course, I am gonna close this up.
Oh and on a side note. Had it been me, a ban would have been issued.
Thread closed