A Few Complete Noob Questions - myTouch 3G, Magic Android Development

A Few Complete Noob Questions - myTouch 3G, Magic Android Development

Hey guys,
I got a mytouch yesterday and LOVE it...but I already have the itch to mod it.
I came over from a HTC Herald (well a T-Mobile Wing), so I have some experience in this kind of thing....but it seems "rooting" android is a bit (a lot) more technical and difficult. By the end flashing the Wing was a 5 minute job...now I'm reading this forum and have no idea where to start.
So..........some questions, if you don't mind.
1- What is the advantage of rooting the phone? Obviously it allows you to access system files and stuff...but what's out there right now? How are these ROMs different than the stock stuff? I've heard a bit about multitouch...is that true? What else?
2- If I do root the phone, I assume it clears everything off (including my apps I downloaded)? Is there an easy way to back this thing up? And after the process is complete, is there an easy way to redownload all of the apps, or will I have to write them down somewhere to get again?
3- Whenever donut comes out....what happens then? Are the roms usually updated with the new stuff, or might there be issues? Or are the roms so far ahead that donut will be meaningless?
I think I had another question but I'm forgetting it now...anyway, this is a start.
And I apologize in advance for whatever info is already out on these topics. I read much of this forum, and it's tough, because there are so many posts regarding this stuff, it's difficult to sort out the good information.

mikeybags said:
Hey guys,
I got a mytouch yesterday and LOVE it...but I already have the itch to mod it.
I came over from a HTC Herald (well a T-Mobile Wing), so I have some experience in this kind of thing....but it seems "rooting" android is a bit (a lot) more technical and difficult. By the end flashing the Wing was a 5 minute job...now I'm reading this forum and have no idea where to start.
So..........some questions, if you don't mind.
1- What is the advantage of rooting the phone? Obviously it allows you to access system files and stuff...but what's out there right now? How are these ROMs different than the stock stuff? I've heard a bit about multitouch...is that true? What else?
2- If I do root the phone, I assume it clears everything off (including my apps I downloaded)? Is there an easy way to back this thing up? And after the process is complete, is there an easy way to redownload all of the apps, or will I have to write them down somewhere to get again?
3- Whenever donut comes out....what happens then? Are the roms usually updated with the new stuff, or might there be issues? Or are the roms so far ahead that donut will be meaningless?
I think I had another question but I'm forgetting it now...anyway, this is a start.
And I apologize in advance for whatever info is already out on these topics. I read much of this forum, and it's tough, because there are so many posts regarding this stuff, it's difficult to sort out the good information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 there are many benefits that the average user typically wouldn't need... but, the best off the top of my head are of course installing cooked ROMs, having the ability to make system changes as you see fit, access to tethering applications, access to apk's that allow things like multitouch an array of programs built into your phone... the list really does go on... each ROM has its own elements; some are faster, some include multitouch in a lot of programs, some are based on the GUI known as Rosie developed by HTC (which is probably by far the most wanted implementation by newbie root users), the ROMs differ with each chef, so theres really no nailing it on the head
2 typically, any of the recovery images that are loaded onto your ROM when you're going through the root process will allow you to reload a nandroid backup... search up on nandroid and this will give you all the answers you need to know about system and program backup
3 roms being updated just really depends on the community and the chef of that ROM... when parts of donut were released, most of the chefs on this site started to implement them immediatley into their ROM's for the public... if you want true support from your chef of your specific ROM, then donate, simple as that... its their time they're putting in, so give them compensation as you see fit

Thanks for the response. Donating is definitely key, these guys deserve to be compensated for what they do, even if it is just for hobby. That goes without question.
Do the ROMs speed the phone up or smooth anything out at all? Not that I've had much issue with that, but coming from a wing I'm a bit paranoid about that.
PS....the fact that programs don't "Close" when you exit them is odd. I got a task killer but it's still crazy that I have to go into that to close everything. Probably my only complaint with android so far.

Related

Head to head comparisons/review of major cooked ROMs - anyone done one?

Hello all,
Having recently upgraded my Hermes to a Kaiser (well actually a AT & T Tilt) and re-flashing it with Schaps 4.30 Rom i have since noticed a sharp decline in performance (compared with my Hermes).
This lead me to look around for something 'better' coming across Duttys cooked ROM and has prompted me to initiate this thread.
Has anyone done a 'review' of the major cooked ROM's out there or even better, put them head to head?

new_ppc_user said:
Hello all,
Having recently upgraded my Hermes to a Kaiser (well actually a AT & T Tilt) and re-flashing it with Schaps 4.30 Rom i have since noticed a sharp decline in performance (compared with my Hermes).
This lead me to look around for something 'better' coming across Duttys cooked ROM and has prompted me to initiate this thread.
Has anyone done a 'review' of the major cooked ROM's out there or even better, put them head to head?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOPE. Feel free to be the first.

new_ppc_user said:
Hello all,
Having recently upgraded my Hermes to a Kaiser (well actually a AT & T Tilt) and re-flashing it with Schaps 4.30 Rom i have since noticed a sharp decline in performance (compared with my Hermes).
This lead me to look around for something 'better' coming across Duttys cooked ROM and has prompted me to initiate this thread.
Has anyone done a 'review' of the major cooked ROM's out there or even better, put them head to head?
P1Tater said:
NOPE. Feel free to be the first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Be aware that it will be your full-time job as new ROMs come out almost every 2-3 days.

well lets put it this way. im sure many of you have tried several different roms on your devices.
can anyone shed some light our input into the major rom players?

answer this question and you will get it
Do you like apple or orange ?
They are both fruit but you cannot head to head compare them.
Beside that newer rom is likely but not necessarily to be better. Try around with different Rom and radio to get your favorite one. Well, It takes about 15 mins to flash so you can pretty much try all the Rom in here in few days. In the end, if you are not happy , do some extensive research so you can brew your own.
Dutty Rom is popular and pretty suitable to start up.

aberz said:
answer this question and you will get it
Do you like apple or orange ?
They are both fruit but you cannot head to head compare them.
Beside that newer rom is likely but not necessarily to be better. Try around with different Rom and radio to get your favorite one. Well, It takes about 15 mins to flash so you can pretty much try all the Rom in here in few days. In the end, if you are not happy , do some extensive research so you can brew your own.
Dutty Rom is popular and pretty suitable to start up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i like both !! so that still doesnt answer my question.
unfortunately, i currently have a pretty hectic schedule so i cant really afford to flash and re-flash my unit all the time. in addition it would take quite a while as i have quite a few additional programs on there.
i am under the impression that Dutty and Schap and the two major players here?
things i need to consider:
- speed of operating system
- ease of use
- stability
- usefull applications

new_ppc_user said:
i like both !! so that still doesnt answer my question.
unfortunately, i currently have a pretty hectic schedule so i cant really afford to flash and re-flash my unit all the time. in addition it would take quite a while as i have quite a few additional programs on there.
i am under the impression that Dutty and Schap and the two major players here?
things i need to consider:
- speed of operating system
- ease of use
- stability
- usefull applications
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sleuth would also be considered a major player here...
In regards to what you want in a ROM, all signs are pointing to Dutty's except for the useful applications. Just add em yourself though...
His is the fastest ROM I have ever used for any device, including the Hermes...
However, opinions are like assholes....

new_ppc_user said:
i like both !! so that still doesnt answer my question.
unfortunately, i currently have a pretty hectic schedule so i cant really afford to flash and re-flash my unit all the time. in addition it would take quite a while as i have quite a few additional programs on there.
i am under the impression that Dutty and Schap and the two major players here?
things i need to consider:
- speed of operating system
- ease of use
- stability
- usefull applications
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So let me get this straight. You want someone else to do all the work and let you reap the benefits? I see now.
My God man. They cooked the rom. What more do you want? You want me to flash your phone for you? WOW.

P1Tater said:
So let me get this straight. You want someone else to do all the work and let you reap the benefits? I see now.
My God man. They cooked the rom. What more do you want? You want me to flash your phone for you? WOW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He's got a pretty hectic schedule unlike us.

oh please give me a break !!!!
the point of this thread is two fold. yes, i want to do as little as possible
however, i would like to ENCOURAGE the discussion of the different ROMs that are available so that WE as users can talk about what we like in the different roms we encouter with their good points and bad points.
and please, dont tell me you dont scour the internet looking for reviews ?

sherpa said:
He's got a pretty hectic schedule unlike us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cuz all we do is spoonfeed

new_ppc_user said:
oh please give me a break !!!!
the point of this thread is two fold. yes, i want to do as little as possible
however, i would like to ENCOURAGE the discussion of the different ROMs that are available so that WE as users can talk about what we like in the different roms we encouter with their good points and bad points.
and please, dont tell me you dont scour the internet looking for reviews ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I dont look for reviews of roms. I flash them and if I dont like them I flash a different one. I have literally tried every single rom (that is in English unlike ATW who even tries foriegn languages) to try and find the one that works best for me. I suggest you do the same and quit asking for someone to do the work for you. The reason I say this is that I can't tell you how many times this same question has been asked. You are definitely not the first nor will you be the last. It seems as though it comes up at least once a week. So, read the first post of the rom, if you dont like what you read or see then move on to the next. Either that or do as most of us do and flash it.

new_ppc_user said:
oh please give me a break !!!!
the point of this thread is two fold. yes, i want to do as little as possible
however, i would like to ENCOURAGE the discussion of the different ROMs that are available so that WE as users can talk about what we like in the different roms we encouter with their good points and bad points.
and please, dont tell me you dont scour the internet looking for reviews ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We don't need to scour the internet looking for reviews. We just read the threads in the forum and test ourselves. All the information you will ever need is found in these forums.

P1Tater said:
No, I dont look for reviews of roms. I flash them and if I dont like them I flash a different one. I have literally tried every single rom (that is in English unlike ATW who even tries foriegn languages) to try and find the one that works best for me. I suggest you do the same and quit asking for someone to do the work for you. The reason I say this is that I can't tell you how many times this same question has been asked. You are definitely not the first nor will you be the last. It seems as though it comes up at least once a week. So, read the first post of the rom, if you dont like what you read or see then move on to the next. Either that or do as most of us do and flash it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup... with this guy... it's very easy to use PIM backup and your storage card to backup your vitals before flashing. Sure it's tedious, but that's how this all works. People will review different ROMS on different criteria and it's up to you to find what makes you happy.

new_ppc_user said:
oh please give me a break !!!!
the point of this thread is two fold. yes, i want to do as little as possible
however, i would like to ENCOURAGE the discussion of the different ROMs that are available so that WE as users can talk about what we like in the different roms we encouter with their good points and bad points.
and please, dont tell me you dont scour the internet looking for reviews ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Smart man , you want to pay the least to get the most .
1st fold
You want to do as little as possible, so we have to do more to cover your work ? > Fail
2nd fold
There is no "we" and "as users" , should be " I " " as a lazy leecher"
And there is also no point in promoting ROMs discussion. We can talk all day without coming up with any thing good but potential conflict.
> fail, again
I dont know about your schedule but my is also packed too ( ask a pre-med, senior Bio student) . And most of peeps here also get a thing call "life" . If I can do it , you can too. Flashing a Rom is not rocket science that would take a life time to do.
How about this, consider flashing your piece of device a relaxing activity for your break . I would be less pain and more joy. If you dont find flashing , trying and using Rom fun , why bother asking here.
p/s for the amount of time finish 2 posts , you could have already flashed a cool Rom lol.

I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but I'm afraid the only way to work out the best ROM for you is to test them all. If a ROM is unstable, you'll be able to tell pretty quickly from scanning the thread and what is one man's "useful applications" is another man's "bloatware".
The best analogy I've seen is with cars - to some people the perfect car is a sports car, to others it's a people-carrier, everyone's needs and uses are different. Also, as most of the ROMs are built on the same two or three OS builds, you're comparing the cars with virtually identical engines, so differences will be minor*.
My suggestion is make a list of what you use on your phone, then decide if you want a fast ROM (in which case flash a lite ROM and add the bits you want via cabs) or an easy ROM (in which case flash a ROM that's got the most of the things on your list).
You will never get everyone to agree on the "best" ROM simply because there isn't one that is head and shoulders above the others*, just optimised by and for different chefs.
*No offence intended to the great chefs on this forum! I know how much work you must put into your ROMs and I'm not trying to belittle that, just get the point across.

Also, it doesn't hurt to take the little bit of time that is required to make an SDConfig.txt file for the User Customization that most of the ROMs utilize now. That in and of itself is a huge timesaver. Take advantage of that, and someone else also posted PIM Backup, which can also help aid in moving from one ROM to another.
Use one ROM for a week, see how you like it then move on if you want to. That's more or less what I've done. And I've found what I've liked.

JUst another case of someone wanting to be fed.

Was it Karhu who would do benchmarks of all the ROM's in the Hermes forum? Talk about intensive... but again, strictly numbers, meant as an informative comparison of different things.

I think I got your thoughts...
I wanna a ROM table for comparisons... I can say its very difficult to make
1) ROMs change every day... its a rough job to keep it update
2) ROMs are like taste. You like a XYZ ROM because its faster but a friend may like a BCD ROM because it runs that app faster.
3) There ia a lot of apps within those ROMs that make they different. Comparing works if all ROMs carried the same stuff.
4) There are no tops ROM... there are populars ROM
I'm looking to flash my kaiser too but I allways got confused too with different cooked ROMs.
I suggest you to read all of your interest, ask them for any detailed spec. Install the HardSPL for Godsake and try it.

[Wanted] The proper way to cook a ROM.

I wonder how the proper way to cook a ROM is. I have fooled a little around with some ROMs by adding some files, removing some, editing a file here and there. Packed it, and signed it.
But is this the way to cook a ROM?
I really like to hear how its supposed do be done. Right down to the kernel..
Or maybe just point me in a direction.

I really wouldn't mind a couple pointers in the right direction as well.
I installed an Ubuntu VM today and I'm getting the Android SDK up and running.
At this point, I have no idea what to do next, but I'm stubborn so I'll keep trying.
Thanks for any help that any one can provide.

a few links realated to the issue:
http://source.android.com/download
http://www.cianer.com/androidg1/28-building-android-kernel-images
i'm starting to mess around with things, i think i'm close in creating ROM from the cupcake branch
I also need to read more on the issue from someone that already created one
Thx

Probably the thing I miss most about my Wizard is this. The guys making roms are doing a wonderful job, but not everyone has the same needs; sure there's a lot of different roms out there, but I just rather do these things myself. That said, I personally haven't really tried to hard to get info on the subject and I'm sure there's plenty of it around if I care to look. Maybe I'm just spoiled from my wizard days with the guides and the kitchens and stuff.
I'll do some reading courtesy of dmanbuhnik @ some point; not now though.... regretfully I gotta wake up early....on a saturday.... the single most hateful thing that can happen to me in a week.

I agree we need a HOW to guide on custom ROM's.
Little off topic but is there any way to optimize the 32B Kernel for a smaller footprint and speed. Possibly remove some features. With the small memory size on it we need to cut the fat where it matters.

you need to create the kernel from scratch in order to get an optimize one for your needs
i know that you can play around with the .config file to decide which features you want in or out
but as a said - i'm only at the begining of the process i rather hear it from someone with real experience on the issue

ATTENTION: New G-Tablet Modders

I just read a post by roebeet (well known dev who put together the TNT Lite ROMS) and something he said made enough sense to me that I thing everyone needs to hear it.
If you are going to flash and try everything you find on this site -- you run a real risk have having problems. Everything you flash adds, changes and deletes stuff from your tablet and some of that gets carried over from ROM to ROM to program.
Just because you partition/erase/delete/overwrite does not mean your tablet content is destroyed. There are a bunch of partitions on your tablet (12?) and some are preserved and some are modified depending on what you do.
So am I saying "Don't mod you G-Tablet" or "Don't try out new stuff." NO.
1. Make real sure you know what you are doing. Too many people just rush ahead and wind up with real problems.
2. Read directions and read all the posts about others who have done the same thing you want to do.
3. When you are making changes, do them one at a time and make sure it's working right before moving on. When you change a bunch of stuff it's hard to tell what the problem/problems is and where it came from.
4. IMHO, too many people see the modding as a game and then they get mad at the dev or people who are trying to help them -- when all the time it was their own fault!
I think it would even be a good idea if someone knowledgeable could help us see if we could put together a flash which would actually delete/erase what's on a
troubled tab so it could be rebuilt. Sorry, but I don't talk enough Android yet to do that.
Think about it.
Rev

butchconner said:
I think it would even be a good idea if someone knowledgeable could help us see if we could put together a flash which would actually delete/erase what's on a
troubled tab so it could be rebuilt.
Rev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would recommend running a format zip before any reloading on a Gtab whether a new rom or the stock. Just like all the computers I work on for people the first thing I do is run a program to erase the hard drive to make sure nothing old can interfere with a new reload of the operating system
Calkulin has this format zip from his rom thread or you could use the other one from here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=974422
Start fresh don't just overwrite!
ale

Calkulin's Format all is awesome
Exactly. Calkulin's format all is a life saver. It is much cleaner and faster way than to do three or four steps to clean stuff out (Invariably one forgets one of the steps which causes all the problems).

I have used this file to solve many problems going from rom to rom... Good stuff.

[Q] Should I step back and use the format zip?
notsob2002 said:
I would recommend running a format zip before any reloading on a Gtab whether a new rom or the stock. Just like all the computers I work on for people the first thing I do is run a program to erase the hard drive to make sure nothing old can interfere with a new reload of the operating system
Calkulin has this format zip from his rom thread or you could use the other one from here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=974422
Start fresh don't just overwrite!
ale
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two days ago I reset my gtab to stock. I have the 3389 zip saved and installed that using clockwork. I also used clockwork and did the data wipe/factory reset right before actually applying the rom.
Loading the stock VS rom removes clockwork and after reboot it pulled the OTA update and currently running the 3588 version.
I did this in anticipation of the upcoming VS update. The tablet seems to be running fine and as I said it's able to find and apply OTA updates.
Would you still recommend running this format zip, and then re-apply the 3389 I have saved?
Thanks,
Neudle
** Would like to point out there is a comment in the referenced post concerning using this format zip..."So this is a "detox" program for our gtablet that we can choose to run prior to NVflash process. And this process should not be done unless absolutely necessary, right?" "Yes, exactly..."

Neudle,
If you were at 3389 and did 3588 via OTA, I would try my recovery. If it does not
come up with your old CWM, then it should be stock recovery and you should be
good to go.
If needed, you always have the option of manually loading recovery and the 3588 update.zip into /sdcard and flashing stock again.
Rev

butchconner said:
Neudle,
If you were at 3389 and did 3588 via OTA, I would try my recovery. If it does not
come up with your old CWM, then it should be stock recovery and you should be
good to go.
If needed, you always have the option of manually loading recovery and the 3588 update.zip into /sdcard and flashing stock again.
Rev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the response.
Actually I think my tablet is fine. Unless I'm really confused (which is certainly possible) 3389 was the update from late december/early january. The 3588 is the update that came up in like febuary. Isn't 3588 the most recent?
This isn't the first time I've reloaded the stock rom and it seems it always over-writes/removes the clockworkmod.
I was simply more curious if you folks do feel it's always best to use the format.zip when swapping roms?
As I said, I'm simply prepping and anticipating the upcoming update from Viewsonic and not worried about clockworkmod for the time being. From what I've seen the update includes a recovery that looks similar.
Thanks again,
Neudle

I think the OP makes an excellent point for all us weekend tinkerers. The G-Tab is my first experience with an android device and although I have experience with rooting and flashing roms and kernals on another platform (WEBOS on my Palm pre), I have spent my first few weeks with this device just reading as much as I can on these forums before trying anything myself.
I was fortunate enough to get a great deal on this tab second hand from somebody who had already flashed it with Vegantab ( I believe 5.1.1). As it stands, it pretty much does everything I need it to do and there is no reason to break what alreday works...... except that I am a weekend tinkerer...... and I am thinking that I would like to try Calkulin's rom.
At the moment, I am not sure that it represent's an upgrade over what I have and I may wait for something gingerbread or honeycomb based that people report to have a signifigant benefit over Vegan 5.1.1...although I am sure I will convince myself differently at some point.
I know that I have CWM installed and that I can use this to clear up caches and personal info before flashing another ROM. Does Calkulin's format erase this? If so, does it need to be re-installed before putting on a new ROM? I am reading posts about people flashing back to stock and receiving updates before flashing a new rom. This completely confuses me as I don't understand the benefit unless, as the OP seems to indicate, there are bits that are left over from the old ROM when a new one is flashed. Is this desirable?
Sorry if I am asking so many questions in this thread. I know that there are bits and pieces of info scattered among many threads but some of it seems contradictory and some I am sure is outdated.
Can someone either outline or point me in the right direction to a step by step that outlines the most current and least likely way to brick upgrade from Vegan to Calkulin's ROM?
Thanks

butchconner said:
2. Read directions and read all the posts about others who have done the same thing you want to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my problem. Where is the step by step, this is how you take a GTab you just bought, to ROM "XYZ" the correct way? There are lots of "how to"s scattered all over this forum, but no one sticky at the top that says "Here's a step by step". Right now, I'm reading through everything again, before I try and mod my tablet, and it's a mess. It would be nice is someone+moderator made a nice, straight forward LOCKED thread that is stuck, that explains it all. The FAQ isn't quite the information necessary (in my eyes).
I'm pretty technical (engineer by trade) and if it takes me a bit to figure out how to do something, the general n00b is going to screw something up.
Just my thoughts.

h3llphyre said:
Here's my problem. Where is the step by step, this is how you take a GTab you just bought, to ROM "XYZ" the correct way? There are lots of "how to"s scattered all over this forum, but no one sticky at the top that says "Here's a step by step". Right now, I'm reading through everything again, before I try and mod my tablet, and it's a mess. It would be nice is someone+moderator made a nice, straight forward LOCKED thread that is stuck, that explains it all. The FAQ isn't quite the information necessary (in my eyes).
I'm pretty technical (engineer by trade) and if it takes me a bit to figure out how to do something, the general n00b is going to screw something up.
Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't found that to be the case at all. In fact, I've seen nothing but repetitive reinforcement of proper procedures from every knowledgeable source. If the ROM Creator says use clockworkmod to install then wipe data... well do it. If he/she says use standard recovery... well... This isn't rocket science. I've installed and tested every ROM listed here with no failures by following the included instructions. I can't believe that is an anomaly.
If you want to be truly successful, learn what each of these tools (clockworkmod, nvflash, etc.) does and more importantly what they do not do. When you educate yourself to their proper use you won't be finding yourself using a hammer when you need a screwdriver.

hotfire!,
I think that's one of the points I hoped to make in this thread.
I appreciate the "format" tips -- but I have not used it and none of the folks whose opinion I watch for have put their stamp of approval on it -- so my opinion of it is still
in the making. I will use it only cautiously until I have confidence it is good.
But as you have said, we do have a hodgepodge of stuff here. People try to do
too much too fast -- and others suggest stuff that doesn't need to be done.
For example -- if somethings crashes on my G-Tablet, I go back to a basic CWM/ROM combo that I know is good so I have a solid place to start and then rebuild. Takes a little longer, but I think it save me a lot of anquish.
So like a lot of others, I just help where I can. But I do try to be conservative and consistent making suggestions the will not "snow" the new or offend those who think
they know what they are doing.
And to everyone I suggest the wrong thing, OOOOPs, and apologies. To those who
help me an give others good help -- thank you.
Rev

K J Rad said:
I haven't found that to be the case at all. In fact, I've seen nothing but repetitive reinforcement of proper procedures from every knowledgeable source. If the ROM Creator says use clockworkmod to install then wipe data... well do it. If he/she says use standard recovery... well... This isn't rocket science. I've installed and tested every ROM listed here with no failures by following the included instructions. I can't believe that is an anomaly.
If you want to be truly successful, learn what each of these tools (clockworkmod, nvflash, etc.) does and more importantly what they do not do. When you educate yourself to their proper use you won't be finding yourself using a hammer when you need a screwdriver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But therein lies the problem. There *is* a great thread on installing CWM and then ROMs using that. Step by step, it's fantastic. Installing a new kernel *is* found in some of the threads, but I wish that great thread with the CWM and ROM installation also had Kernel info.
Regardless of if you know how these tools work, it's nice to have a step by step to follow, just to ensure you're doing everything in order. I do it at work when I'm working with a new system (I write it myself) just to make sure I follow the same procedure every time. It helps when problems arise.
I'm just saying, for the n00bs, it would be nice to have a "one size fits all" thread. I was able to successfully install CWM and Vegan without a single problem, as I've been reading this forum for MONTHS, but I'm not a normal person (nor are most of the regulars here).
One thing I try to do, is demystify technology. Make it easy, explain it in simple ways while still being effective as describing what is going on, and then you don't get "stupid questions" later. Essentially, trying to run in the opposite direction that most Linux forums tend to be. Threads buried 2 years back have the info, everyone screams at the n00bs saying "USE THE SEARCH".
Love this forum, the people here are REALLY helpful, but there is room for improvement. That's all I'm saying.

h3llphyre said:
But therein lies the problem. There *is* a great thread on installing CWM and then ROMs using that. Step by step, it's fantastic. Installing a new kernel *is* found in some of the threads, but I wish that great thread with the CWM and ROM installation also had Kernel info.
Regardless of if you know how these tools work, it's nice to have a step by step to follow, just to ensure you're doing everything in order. I do it at work when I'm working with a new system (I write it myself) just to make sure I follow the same procedure every time. It helps when problems arise.
I'm just saying, for the n00bs, it would be nice to have a "one size fits all" thread. I was able to successfully install CWM and Vegan without a single problem, as I've been reading this forum for MONTHS, but I'm not a normal person (nor are most of the regulars here).
One thing I try to do, is demystify technology. Make it easy, explain it in simple ways while still being effective as describing what is going on, and then you don't get "stupid questions" later. Essentially, trying to run in the opposite direction that most Linux forums tend to be. Threads buried 2 years back have the info, everyone screams at the n00bs saying "USE THE SEARCH".
Love this forum, the people here are REALLY helpful, but there is room for improvement. That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Short answer: Great idea! When will you have it ready? ;-)
Long answer...
I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is that there isn't a one size fits all answer to this "problem" (certainly not since the addition of TwoTapsX). The step by step instructions for installing ROMs, kernels, other hacks, etc. exist in the threads that contain the product (and most of those are stickied) because they aren't always identical. One "Superpost" meant to encompass all of those instructions would grow to be much too large and include far too many logical branches to be effective when you take into account the individual caveats for each. However, the methods for installing many of the products is similar in most cases even if the tools are not identical. Understanding which tool to use and how it works is the key to a successful experience.
For example are the recent cases of problems with TwoTapsX (formerly TnTLite 5.0.x). The instructions in the thread clearly stated that the users should start from a clean Viewsonic ROM without CWM (very different from other ROMs). It even stated an nvflash might be necessary if you had any problems with the install (also not usually necessary with other ROMs). Still, the overwhelming majority of users that had problems had failed to follow the instructions correctly and were unprepared to do an nvflash. These were generally not people that were new to the process, either. In cases where they were, a simple search for the error message they were getting or the condition they were experiencing turned up an answer within the first two or threes responses and virtually all of them were addressed in the original instruction thread or another recent thread with a similar title.
Another example, I still see threads daily about someone recently installing VEGAnTab 5.11 and all of a sudden their media disappears from their sdcard. This is a well known and very well documented problem with a long used successful work around. It isn't a case where their particular installation went awry, it's a known issue with the ROM. How many of those issues would need to be addressed in the "Superpost" in order to be effective and yet not be cumbersome?
To complicate things further, we now have indications that the next official release may change recovery to be incompatible with previous methods. It's possible we'll see further forking of these processes based on the developers preference of recovery which would reinforce the need to customize instructions for a particular product.
Room for improvement? Sure. I just think education is better than hand holding. I always encouraged my engineers to learn more and develop their own processes because they might actually be better, cheaper, more efficient, than whatever we currently had. I understood that MY answer might not always be the best one and I preferred to empower my associates.
All that being said... I'm all for anything that improves the community and more importantly helps its members. If you feel that it would be helpful then feel free to put something together or team with a few others to produce a document to address the issues you've identified. I'll be more than happy to link people to it if it fills a need for them just as I have to others in previous threads ;-)

Modding
You know normally I just read and lurk around here, but I can't keep my mouth shut any longer.
**WARNING** Not that I expect anyone to notice because apparently half of you can't read or don't comprehend what you do read, but anything past this point is probably not contributing to the conversation in a constructive way and should be considered as me ranting.
I have had my tab since December and have flashed every single Rom found on this forum at one time or another and the problems I see people have just amaze me. It's amazing because 9 out of 10 times it's because they didn't bother to read/comprehend the darn instructions or they are to lazy to search/read/comprehend on how to fix it or start over.
I am by no means a rocket scientist/programmer/developer/modder myself but I can read something 3-4 times first to make sure I comprehend before I go off deliberately voiding the warranty on a $400 device. And if I break it? Guess What?? There are instructions for that to if people would bother to look. Granted the information can be scattered around but if you can't be bothered to search/read then you should probably not be using a android device.
Last thing and I'll shut up. The entitlement I see coming from alot of people really makes my blood boil. You are an early adopter of bleeding edge technology, there are going to be problems and alot of them! If you didn't do research on the tab before you bought it you have no right to complain. The devs are not paid except by an occasional donation. They do this on their own time with their own equipment for the community. THEY DO NOT OWE YOU A THING, AND YOU SHOULD WORSHIP THEM SINCE WE ALL GET TO BENEFIT FROM THEIR HARD WORK!!!

Be Contented....
After tried two ROMs (TnT and NI) and finally sticked to NI, am well contented and satisfied. I think being contented may less your problem...

K J Rad said:
Short answer: Great idea! When will you have it ready? ;-)
<Plus lots of other stuff you said>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As you can see from my post count, I'm historically a lurker. I've literally read every single thread in the GTab section since December. The problem for me, mostly came down to once I bought the device (I research stuff to death before I pull the trigger) and was ready to try a new ROM, it was information overload. There *is* a good thread about ROMs and CWM as I said, so I followed that, after reading it 6 times to ensure there were no gotchas.
I want to try out Pershoot's kernel, but I don't feel like I've read the procedure enough times to feel confident I'll be able to do it without having to fix something I broke. So, I'll read it a few dozen times, research the tools used, and finally get to it.
End of the day, I'll probably ask the person who did the ROM thread if they wouldn't mind added text that I've put together for the Kernels (as a supplement to what he did). I do want to give back to the community.
Also, you'll hopefully be seeing some hardware mods coming soon from me, fully documented. My true love is hardware, so I'll leave the ROMs and Kernels to the software guys, and focus on improvements on the physical side of things.
Thanks for keeping the conversation friendly. Always great to hear other people's opinions on matters.

Hardware mods would be VERY cool. Just remember to put something in the thread about how to talk your wife into letting you replace the smoldering mess on the kitchen table so I'll be covered... ;-)

h3llphyre said:
Also, you'll hopefully be seeing some hardware mods coming soon from me, fully documented. My true love is hardware, so I'll leave the ROMs and Kernels to the software guys, and focus on improvements on the physical side of things.
Thanks for keeping the conversation friendly. Always great to hear other people's opinions on matters.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I speak for everyone here when I say "Bring them on!"

2 cents to add
I have worked in various areas of IT for over 30 years. Unfortunately android has not been one of them but the basic ideas are always the same. As one reader noted (with a little bit of steam coming from his ears) no one owes you anything here. You aren't paying and you're pretty lucky to have so many talented people making their efforts available to you. I, for one, am very appreciative. I do see the point however about documentation. I have been slowly (and painfully) coming up to speed on the various facets of this g-tab experience. What I find most frustrating is not the lack of directions (there are plenty if you look) or even responses (Clemsyn responded to my request for kernel updating info) but the lack of basic information. I recognize a linux type structure when I snoop around the file system. What is the relation of the ROMS to that? What exactly does clockwork do and where does it live? When you "clear caches" what exactly are you clearing? etc. I'm not expecting answers to these questions here but I think that is the problem a lot of us "caught in the middle guys" have. Sure, we can follow directions and usually everything works just the way it is supposed to but we don't know WHY. If you just blindly follow directions that makes you a "user" not an "admin" and who wants to be a user???? ha-ha What I really want to know is how/where do the more experienced people here (including devs) get their base information to know how to tinker with kernels, ROMS, etc? Where is the G-Tab Development for Dummies book hiding????

enigmas 0456,
You will find that lack of documentation is the hallmark of Android -- not just
here but everywhere. Probably more info here than most places.
Rev

Noobs: Rooting -- No Big Deal

I'm not into the cell phone scene, so I don't know about "rooting" there -- but with the G-Tablet it's no big deal.
First, with the G-Tablet all you have to do is D/L (from a market or sideload) the
program "z4root". After installing z4root you touch on button to root the tablet
permanently. Done.
Second, if you do go on and mod your tablet using the ROMs put out by our devs, you will find most of them come with "root" installed.
And....the main thing I have observed root does for you when getting started
with the G-Tablet is that it lets you run "Root Explorer", a good file management program -- and "Titanium Backup", a good backup too. (Others many prefer other tools besides these. I just mention them because lots of folks use them here.)
I've read comments from several folks fretting over rooting and just thought I should say it's no big deal.
Rev

Seems like the G-tab is much easier to Root compared to HTC G2 which needed ADB and other tweaks to get it to work. Even then it took me 2 hours to get root access, Load CM 7 nightly build, Customize device with apps and tinker. So i would imagine the G-tab will take 1hr-1.5hr to do everything including customizing and downloading apps and such. It is nice to see members with experience putting up new threads and such with information on how to root and load roms. I think if someone has some good links and guides that would help the community a-lot and have a safe starting point for all instead of having 10,000 new bricked G-tabs added to the community.

Is it just me or does every thread here get closed "before it gets out of hand" ?
I have been on this forum for years, along with hundreds of other and I have never seen a thread where the mods are this controlling and close threads like it is going out of style.

faiz23,
Thanks for the post. It confirms that a phone root is what I thought it would be!
I am happy to help folks, but I have to tell you I will be among the contingent telling
new folks to move slow, be cautious, read and study until you understand, ask
questions, and make good decisions. Did I mention read and study and understand?
I don't know of anyone who has absolutely bricked their G-Tab (there may be one or two, but I don't know anything about them). But I sure know of a pile of people who
have sweated blood and wanted to pound their head with bricks after messing one up
and having to look at their $400 useless technology for a while.
IMHO, too many people move too fast -- and if enough people mess up it makes it
really hard for the "helper" folks on the forum to keep everyone up.
Good luck. Oh, and did I mention read and research and study until you understand?!
Rev

darkrift,
Just read the forums and you will see why things are a little tight.
One of our devs, roebeet, brought out a new ROM based on what we call UAT 3991 (an update that hasn't been published). It has a new generation of software in it (not
Honeycomb) that changes some of the key software. IF YOU DON'T READ AND UNDERSTAND AND DO THE INSTALL RIGHT, IT WILL SEMI-BRICK YOUR G-TABLET AND
REQUIRE ADVANCED MEASURES TO RECOVER.
A lot of people tried the new update and a pile of folks semi-bricked the tablets. I am reasonably experienced and in spite of doing everything "right" my test tablet started
boot looping and I had to do an advanced recovery. All the ROMS, software, mods, etc. you do "can" have a cumulative effect on future mods -- so the more you play the
more it increases the risk.
Lot of the folks semi-bricked because they didn't do it right, and it has really made it hard to get everyone fixed and keep everybody running.
So I think everyone that cares about the G-Tablet here on the forums is making an effort to upgrade docs, keep things from getting too complicated, encourage folks to
be cautious -- and in general provide better stuff to work with.
We all want to play and have fun. It's keeping it from NOT being fun that's the problem. Read and read and read and you will understand.
My opinion, anyhow.
Rev
P. S. -- Sorry if it sounds like I'm lecturing you. Didn't mean to -- it just
goes with my vocation. With your experience I know you will understand.

if you are doing a wipe and the roms are packaged properly, there should be no cumulative effect. are the devs building partial roms that stack on top of the current roms instead of releasing full self contained images? something doesnt sound right about that, but regardless.... rom flashing is risky, to the flasher. if they cant take the risk, that is their problem. doesnt mean we need to be closing threads where users are talking calmly because we are scared they might e-riot at any time.

darkrift,
I don't think it's the devs fault. Their ROMs are good.
The best way I know to say it is that when you format, erase/delete, recover, etc. you cannot count on everything being blanked. There are 12 partitions in the G-Tablet and they don't all get changed all the time -- say loading a ROM.
I NVFlashed once to fix a problem and loaded and update afterward and still wound up with files in memory left over from the pre-problem setup!
Only in the last couple of weeks have a couple of folks been addressing the "format" issue (from the standpoint of a clean wipe) and while I'm reading and learning, I haven't had time thorougly follow what they are doing yet.
As for closing, I understand what you are saying, but I also understand where the moderators are coming from too.
Rev

Darkrift said:
if you are doing a wipe and the roms are packaged properly, there should be no cumulative effect. are the devs building partial roms that stack on top of the current roms instead of releasing full self contained images? something doesnt sound right about that, but regardless.... rom flashing is risky, to the flasher. if they cant take the risk, that is their problem. doesnt mean we need to be closing threads where users are talking calmly because we are scared they might e-riot at any time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The term "cumulative effect" may be a bit misleading. However, some of us have experienced issues with the partitioning of the internal sdcard that we believe may be related to heavy modding. Over time we'll start to get unexplained errors reading and writing to user spaces that should be relatively untouched by the flashing process. Repartitioning usually resolves the issues. We've also seen situations where experienced modders have followed directions precisely and still ended up with unexpected results. Subsequent attempts result may result in success or failure in what seems to be random selection. This is usually seen on devices that have been previously modded but it's difficult to say to what degree since no one has really been able to collect enough data to be useful but it is certainly in large enough numbers to have been a concern for some.

Worth Rooting?

I just got the MT4GS after being a long time MT4G user and I'm wondering if it is worth it to root as there is currently no CM or stable Virtuous Rom which is what I used on the MT4G. Any helpful opinions are much appreciated.

micahman said:
I just got the MT4GS after being a long time MT4G user and I'm wondering if it is worth it to root as there is currently no CM or stable Virtuous Rom which is what I used on the MT4G. Any helpful opinions are much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Virtuous is what you like then I'd say yes, go for it and root. The Virtuous ROM might be in beta here in the MT4GS forums but it was smokin' fast and stable enough when I used it. I'm sure an official release is just around the corner anyway. good luck and welcome to the MT4GS family!!

siani_8 said:
If Virtuous is what you like then I'd say yes, go for it and root. The Virtuous ROM might be in beta here in the MT4GS forums but it was smokin' fast and stable enough when I used it. I'm sure an official release is just around the corner anyway. good luck and welcome to the MT4GS family!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the feedback and welcome, good enough reason for me. One thing I do like a lot on stock is the camera app, is that included in the beta or is there a flashable mod?

micahman said:
Thanks for the feedback and welcome, good enough reason for me. One thing I do like a lot on stock is the camera app, is that included in the beta or is there a flashable mod?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes sir, the Doubleshot camera app is included.

micahman said:
I just got the MT4GS after being a long time MT4G user and I'm wondering if it is worth it to root as there is currently no CM or stable Virtuous Rom which is what I used on the MT4G. Any helpful opinions are much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root it. Then you can:
Enhance your gps ability because of the generic gps file that's coded very poorly (in fact wrongly ... T-Mo doesn't maintain a good SUPL server, and if you're not on the T-Mo network your AGPS isn't working in stock configuration...well, maybe a little, but not anything worth mentioning. )
Flash a better security update to fix the big-brotheresque HTC spy mode (htcloggers.apk). HTC released an update to patch their security hole, but they are still monitoring everything you do with the device. Flash Undeadk9's security patch to just cut them off at the knees instead, or uninstall htcloggers.apk ( and other file I can't remember at the moment )
Change your hardware key files and re-map some buttons to be more useful.
Flash custom ROMs, as you're aware...
Play with the upcoming kernel files from myself and others...( give us time to make it stable )
...and so much more!
Generally do the things with the device that you've paid for that you should be able to do. Why spend all this money on something, and only use like 60% or less of what it can do?
If you're here and posting, then you should probably just go ahead and root it. It won't be long after you've been poking around in here reading through all the things we have been/are doing with the device before you'll go for it.
Check the sticky at the top of the general section to get a good handle on where to go first and what to read through. Take the time to read through the threads ( I know they are long ) - you'll see what all the problems were that people encountered, and how they were solved. Even if you don't run into the problems, at least you'll learn a whole lot and understand your device much, much more intimately.
...and if you get stuck, we're here to help. Many of us have been through this whole process countless times before, and are willing to lend a hand - just don't post random questions in the dev section and everything will be good.
Welcome to our little corner of the XDA universe - you'll love this device!

Blue6IX said:
Root it. Then you can:
Enhance your gps ability because of the generic gps file that's coded very poorly (in fact wrongly ... T-Mo doesn't maintain a good SUPL server, and if you're not on the T-Mo network your AGPS isn't working in stock configuration...well, maybe a little, but not anything worth mentioning. )
Flash a better security update to fix the big-brotheresque HTC spy mode (htcloggers.apk). HTC released an update to patch their security hole, but they are still monitoring everything you do with the device. Flash Undeadk9's security patch to just cut them off at the knees instead, or uninstall htcloggers.apk ( and other file I can't remember at the moment )
Change your hardware key files and re-map some buttons to be more useful.
Flash custom ROMs, as you're aware...
Play with the upcoming kernel files from myself and others...( give us time to make it stable )
...and so much more!
Generally do the things with the device that you've paid for that you should be able to do. Why spend all this money on something, and only use like 60% or less of what it can do?
If you're here and posting, then you should probably just go ahead and root it. It won't be long after you've been poking around in here reading through all the things we have been/are doing with the device before you'll go for it.
Check the sticky at the top of the general section to get a good handle on where to go first and what to read through. Take the time to read through the threads ( I know they are long ) - you'll see what all the problems were that people encountered, and how they were solved. Even if you don't run into the problems, at least you'll learn a whole lot and understand your device much, much more intimately.
...and if you get stuck, we're here to help. Many of us have been through this whole process countless times before, and are willing to lend a hand - just don't post random questions in the dev section and everything will be good.
Welcome to our little corner of the XDA universe - you'll love this device!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, thank you for all the info, I am very grateful. I've noticed there are a few threads detailing how to root but can you tell me which one would be the best and most reliable? Thanks again for all the info, especially about that HTC spy stuff, I had no idea.

micahman said:
Wow, thank you for all the info, I am very grateful. I've noticed there are a few threads detailing how to root but can you tell me which one would be the best and most reliable? Thanks again for all the info, especially about that HTC spy stuff, I had no idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used theunlockr.com to root it, worked like a charm and has a video walk throu.. which I'm a big fan of. Easier to follow. but the only difference is to flash modoco cwm not revolutionary.. so you can flash undeadK9's roms.. id suggest senseless.
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium

shady503403 said:
I used theunlockr.com to root it, worked like a charm and has a video walk throu.. which I'm a big fan of. Easier to follow. but the only difference is to flash modoco cwm not revolutionary.. so you can flash undeadK9's roms.. id suggest senseless.
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man! Got it rooted and running senseless! So far so good!

Not to contradict Shady's advice, especially since it seems like it worked for you, but i've previously and still do recommend against going to a third party web resource outside of XDA to root the device.
The reason being is that a lot of us did everything from the information available here, and we are familiar with the processes and common problems people run into following the guides posted here in the forums.
If you post questions about problems or an issue you run into, you run the risk of slow or no support because of the unfamiliarity the majority of us here have with outside methods and resources.
I know off the top of my head I could post a helpful response to someone having a problem with a method described here. For an outside resource...i'd probably have to go look it up, maybe download somehing, and probably try the method before being able to help.
Then i'd have to dig into the code of whatever offering was in question, to ensure it wasn't doing anything I didn't want it to do before installing anything.
Ultimately, this is a lot more time and trouble then just digging into my memory or looking up a specific thread to verify something, and also probably provide a link to the specific post that addresses the problem.
I'm hitting overtime consistently on my night job, and still picking up hours at my day job, and honestly would rather commit the level of time necessary to troubleshoot an outside resource on something more personally productive, like digging deeper into kernel source or something.
Just a thought to keep in mind as you (and others in the future) wander around here. I promise that everything you need to root your phone and install custom ROMs and such is right here in the MT4GS forums. (excepting the need to go to the revolutionary resource for S-OFF).

Cm7 just dropped like a bomb
sent from my real Gs move in silence like lasagna

mbernusg said:
Cm7 just dropped like a bomb
sent from my real Gs move in silence like lasagna
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With a follow up by Official CWM Recovery. Today was a good day.
Coug76

Blue6IX said:
Not to contradict Shady's advice, especially since it seems like it worked for you, but i've previously and still do recommend against going to a third party web resource outside of XDA to root the device.
The reason being is that a lot of us did everything from the information available here, and we are familiar with the processes and common problems people run into following the guides posted here in the forums.
If you post questions about problems or an issue you run into, you run the risk of slow or no support because of the unfamiliarity the majority of us here have with outside methods and resources.
I know off the top of my head I could post a helpful response to someone having a problem with a method described here. For an outside resource...i'd probably have to go look it up, maybe download somehing, and probably try the method before being able to help.
Then i'd have to dig into the code of whatever offering was in question, to ensure it wasn't doing anything I didn't want it to do before installing anything.
Ultimately, this is a lot more time and trouble then just digging into my memory or looking up a specific thread to verify something, and also probably provide a link to the specific post that addresses the problem.
I'm hitting overtime consistently on my night job, and still picking up hours at my day job, and honestly would rather commit the level of time necessary to troubleshoot an outside resource on something more personally productive, like digging deeper into kernel source or something.
Just a thought to keep in mind as you (and others in the future) wander around here. I promise that everything you need to root your phone and install custom ROMs and such is right here in the MT4GS forums. (excepting the need to go to the revolutionary resource for S-OFF).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true. They use a lot of information found at xda to build their guides off of thou. And a video tutorial is always nice, for me anyways. but yeah.. don't expect support from theunlockr.com.
I always go their, sometimes their outdated or wrong. But still gave me a general idea and I was able to use multiple guides to give me the correct process..
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium

I'm glad I was able to find this thread, cause I've been wondering whether or not it would actually be worth it to root a MT4GS or not. And ya, I can agree that for the most part, rooting has more benefits than problems. And I always have gotten the same answer when asking that question about other devices, "Just root it; you'd have to be crazy not to; nothing compares to a rooted phone, etc...". So I gave in and rooted my MT3G 1.2 (w/ the headphone jack on top). After a while I noticed some definite problems: a few important features were gone, also it was impossible to update G. Maps (because of being rooted), and finally the worst scenario of all: not being possible to un-root the device. I must have tried 10 times, following the directions to the T and repeatedly getting the same failure error. I was finally able to find someone else with a similar problem who posted their solution. Tried, waited, failed. Fully bricked, I mean not even a flicker or a battery light would come on after that. Fortunately, I was able to lie to customer service and convince them to do a warranty exchange (Aeon-1, T-Mobile-0) so I got a replacement and haven't rooted since.
So I guess my point is, I'm actually scared to root my new MT4GS for the sake of potentially not being able to unroot it if need be. But, so far from what I've read it looks like it is reversable if I ever need to. I was likely considering using theunlockr.com's method due to clearly stated, and easily understood instructions. I wish I could say the same about the posts I've read @ XDA regarding rooting instructions.
-Which rooting methods are guaranteed to be un-rootable? That option is crucial, if I ever need to go back to stock or do a warranty exchange (for all those people who were gonna say "Why the hell would you ever consider unrooting?)
-So some people suggest ClockworkMod Recovery, others don't seem to care. I ask, is there any real difference between the two? And why?
-Also, which are the best/most stable roms you would suggest? Because I've done the trial and error thing before, comparing several different roms, and I never seemed to find anything worthwhile. (Also, I checked CyanogenMod's site and either I'm blind or they don't have a single rom for the MT4GS)
-I think you somewhat answer the question regarding features of the stock camera being available after rooting. But I need to know: After rooting, is the camera going to be the same as the stock one, including ALL available features (SweepShot, ClearShot HDR, Burst Shot, Macro, Night...)? And is that camera program featured within all rooted roms, or does it have to be installed seperately?
-And ditto that question in regards to G-Maps.
-And finally this may seem like a n00b question, but I've still never gotten a clear answer: How/When can a Nandroid Backup be performed? I know that it would be a safety precaution in case I ever f*cked up my device and needed to restore, but I've never been able to find clear, accurate, and relevant instructions on how to nandroid backup or even nandroid restore.
So I apologize for asking so many questions, especially since I imagine they seem redundant and novice. However, I have rooted phones before so I'm not a complete n00b; I'm just trying to be VERY thorough this time around, to avoid any potential for error. Thank you in advance for your time.
-Colton

@eon said:
I'm glad I was able to find this thread, cause I've been wondering whether or not it would actually be worth it to root a MT4GS or not. And ya, I can agree that for the most part, rooting has more benefits than problems. And I always have gotten the same answer when asking that question about other devices, "Just root it; you'd have to be crazy not to; nothing compares to a rooted phone, etc...". So I gave in and rooted my MT3G 1.2 (w/ the headphone jack on top). After a while I noticed some definite problems: a few important features were gone, also it was impossible to update G. Maps (because of being rooted), and finally the worst scenario of all: not being possible to un-root the device. I must have tried 10 times, following the directions to the T and repeatedly getting the same failure error. I was finally able to find someone else with a similar problem who posted their solution. Tried, waited, failed. Fully bricked, I mean not even a flicker or a battery light would come on after that. Fortunately, I was able to lie to customer service and convince them to do a warranty exchange (Aeon-1, T-Mobile-0) so I got a replacement and haven't rooted since.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to hear that didn't work out so well. I think you'll find that your MT4GS experience will be a lot better.
Check the link to my backup thread in my signature. Read through it, and feel free to ask any questions in that thread you may have. I or another will be happy to help you clear them up.
Link: Backups - After Rooting, before ROMing, take this step
@eon said:
So I guess my point is, I'm actually scared to root my new MT4GS for the sake of potentially not being able to unroot it if need be. But, so far from what I've read it looks like it is reversable if I ever need to. I was likely considering using theunlockr.com's method due to clearly stated, and easily understood instructions. I wish I could say the same about the posts I've read @ XDA regarding rooting instructions.
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Click to collapse
Yea, everything tends to happen first here, so trying to keep it all organized as things change and develop is difficult at times, much too convoluted at others.
Basically, you need to take your bootloader from S-ON to S-OFF. Do this with the Revolutionary exploit. It installs CWM 4.0.0.8 during the process.
Then you need to make a nandroid backup. (see my backup thread)
Then you should upgrade to the official Clockworkmod Recovery, replacing 4.0.0.8 that was installed with the S-OFF exploit. The version is 5.0.2.7
Dev section link for the official CWM:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1329160
Once you do that, you should already have the superuser.apk you need for rooting that you found when you got the Revolutionary S-OFF tools. You can either have done it then, or now.
I'd wait until after getting the official CWM first, simply because that makes your first nandroid backup as fresh as it can be. It's up to you when you do it.
And that's basically it.
You now have a stock, rooted phone that you can start to play with. I'd say play with it for a little while on the stock ROM before switching to another, that way you'll get a feel for what you gain or lose, and if the various trade-offs are worth it.
Before doing any of that stuff, though, read through this thread:
Read this before posting. MT4G Slide Compendium
That will get you a little more familiar with the terminology, and provide helpful links to start exploring what you need to know.
Also read as much of this thread as you can stand:
S-OFF for Retail (S-ON) Devices, NOTE ADDED 8/17/11
This S-OFF for retail is the thread that officially announced the Revolutionary exploit for S-OFF here. The links in the OP will take you to where you need to go to get it.
If you get through that one, then this is a follow up:
PERMANENT-ROOT (NEW!) & Temp-Root (v2) for any MT4GS (Windows)
The temp-root thread is a bit confusing, because before we got S-OFF you could root the phone until you rebooted it. Once the Revolutionary S-OFF method was out, this thread also ran tandem with the official announcement thread. Because it was also dealing with temp root, it led to a lot of confusion.
There is some really good info in that thread, but I recommend reading the official release thread first. It'll make more sense that way, and you may not even have to check the temp-root thread.
(again, this lends to the evolving nature of what we're learning here - hard to keep it organized as it grows.)
Also, this thread: How To Turn S-Off, Install MoDaCo Clockworkmod Recovery, and Install a Rom For Dummie
Was written as a summary on how to get S-OFF and Root, because of how convoluted and looong the two previously mentioned threads got.
Once you hit this point, you're basically set.
My next move would be to install busybox, which you can find in the market, then immediately flash the Security patch to fix a glaring security flaw created by HTC.
At this point i'd make another nandroid backup.
@eon said:
-Which rooting methods are guaranteed to be un-rootable? That option is crucial, if I ever need to go back to stock or do a warranty exchange (for all those people who were gonna say "Why the hell would you ever consider unrooting?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are all un-rootable, but once you go from S-ON to S-OFF that's a one-way trip. Several people have reported exchanging their devices after returning to stock with an S-OFF bootloader without issue.
This is returning to T-Mobile, though, it's questionable if HTC will accept a return directly of a device with an S-OFF bootloader.
@eon said:
-So some people suggest ClockworkMod Recovery, others don't seem to care. I ask, is there any real difference between the two? And why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As mentioned, upgrade to the official Clockworkmod recovery as soon as possible. From here on out it will be the only supported recovery.
@eon said:
-Also, which are the best/most stable roms you would suggest? Because I've done the trial and error thing before, comparing several different roms, and I never seemed to find anything worthwhile. (Also, I checked CyanogenMod's site and either I'm blind or they don't have a single rom for the MT4GS)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm working on releasing the updated version of Bulletproof right now, actually, and you'll like that one. Should be out in a day or so. The original developer is moving on and is handing it off to me.
I've just spent the last....dunno how long working at it, and needed to take 5 and clear my head. Cruised through the XDA MT4GS forums as i'm winding down for a break, and you caught me at a good time to give a response.
CM7 just got officially put on hold, but with your interest in the camera you probably wouldn't have gone for that right away. It's an alpha release, and we are very excited to have official CM support for the device, but since Ice Cream Sandwich ( Android 4.0 ) source code was just released, the CM team is focusing on that and it's likely to be a while before the CM7 for our phone sees an update.
Honestly, i'm more excited that they are focusing so exculsively on Ice Cream Sandwich, because that means a lot more for all the phones and devices beyond just our own version of CM7.
I'll leave other ROM recommendations to others who will surely come through here and tell you more about them.
@eon said:
-I think you somewhat answer the question regarding features of the stock camera being available after rooting. But I need to know: After rooting, is the camera going to be the same as the stock one, including ALL available features (SweepShot, ClearShot HDR, Burst Shot, Macro, Night...)? And is that camera program featured within all rooted roms, or does it have to be installed seperately?
-And ditto that question in regards to G-Maps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much all of the ROMs will support both the Camera app (in its entirety, included in the ROM) and Google maps.
The alpha port of CM7 is the only one (pretty sure) that doesn't support the camera, because the camera is tied into the sense frameworks. CM7 has no Sense components to it, and it was stated very clearly in the thread that it never will. The CM team and their ROM is worth losing the camera app over to a lot of people, and they are the lone exception to the "no camera app" stigma.
Keeping the camera app is one of the things that has been driving development around here, and very few people were willing to use or invest time in making a ROM that would exclude it.
I should take this time to point out that the stock gps configurations are, well, flat out wrong. Misconfigured, and it doesn't work well.
Myself and another developer independently spent a lot of time working on fixing this issue, and when we realized what each other were doing we also realized that we had the piece of the puzzle the other needed to make it work.
We released a collaboration that solved the problem, which you can find here: GPS lock too long or not at all? Try this
If you want to know how my half of the puzzle works, that thread will explain it in almost excrutiating detail. I recommend my patch over the other developers, as he is no longer with us and I will only be continuing support in my thread.
@eon said:
-And finally this may seem like a n00b question, but I've still never gotten a clear answer: How/When can a Nandroid Backup be performed? I know that it would be a safety precaution in case I ever f*cked up my device and needed to restore, but I've never been able to find clear, accurate, and relevant instructions on how to nandroid backup or even nandroid restore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just cruise through my backup thread. Post 1 is an adb method, post 2 is the nandroid method. If you have any questions, post them in that thread and help us try to maintain some kind of order (hah!)
@eon said:
So I apologize for asking so many questions, especially since I imagine they seem redundant and novice. However, I have rooted phones before so I'm not a complete n00b; I'm just trying to be VERY thorough this time around, to avoid any potential for error. Thank you in advance for your time.
-Colton
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, don't ever worry about asking too many or too long of a question, as long as you don't post the question itself as a new thread in the development section of the MT4GS forums.
I'm sorry to hear it took such a bad experience for you to become as cautious as you are, but now that you're long past it you are much better off.
I'd much rather see someone ask questions, read some stuff, ask more questions, and then act on knowledge then just go and do and then say "I broke it, what do I do".
I'm happy to help either way, but if the information is there already then reading it before you start is much better then retroactively. Save the "how do I fix it" for uncharted territory learning things that aren't already common knowledge.
Again, part of the problem is that information is so convoluted because we keep adding to it as we learn new things. You can't really structure it before you know what it's going to be.
Myself and a few others have been trying to put effort into organizing things, but it's really a monumental task and i'd like to develop new things more so then catalogue what we already know. It's a crappy balance, but I try to put equal time to developing and organizing/answering questions.
I hope this helped you out some, I know I didn't completely cover it all but it should give you some things to chew on and help you sift through the data by spending more time on the relevant parts. Even then it's still a lot that you should know.
Don't be afraid to ask questions, one of the reasons I go into such depth is because people can correct me precisely where i'm wrong if I am about something.
You learn more when you're willing to admit you don't know something, then to pretend you do for whatever reason. Asking the right questions depends on being honest about what you do and don't know with yourself, so fire away.
I've got to get outside for a few minutes, then get back into coding, but someone else will come along and add to this soon enough.
Take care!

Well I definitely very much appreciate your prompt, and very detailed response to my many questions. I've been reading over what you've written plus the links over the past day. The main issue I have is digging through each thread looking for relevant information, while trying not to get sucked into each and every tangent post/link/info. I lost track of how many hours I've wasted reading irrelevant info which I initially thought actually had something to do with what I was after. And now a day later, I have my desk covered in reference notes (which are no longer comprehensible) and I'm more confused than I was before.
There are plenty of issues I have with forums in general. First of which being, organization seldom exists. Its like going into a library with a single question about 'how to change a tire', and leaving with 15 random, heavy books on quantum theory and black-matter, because apparently someone implied they were somehow related (I'm referring to other people, not you). Discouraging to say the least. I thought this would be more black-and-white; more simple. When 'Android' was new, rooting was simple (less ways to re-invent the wheel).
I'm walking away from this for now. The headache isnt worth it (I literally feel like I got skull-f*cked by god himself). But thank you for your help and feedback.

micahman said:
I just got the MT4GS after being a long time MT4G user and I'm wondering if it is worth it to root as there is currently no CM or stable Virtuous Rom which is what I used on the MT4G. Any helpful opinions are much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is DEFINITELY worth it... Root away my friend and welcome to the MT4GS family. This phones kicks ass and we are expanding every day like wildfire
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium

@eon said:
...
I'm walking away from this for now. The headache isnt worth it (I literally feel like I got skull-f*cked by god himself). But thank you for your help and feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hah, yea, XDA is like that all over - just the nature of the beast.
This is not the quick-answer type of home, yet from a developers point of view there is no better place on the internet for android/phone development information and help.
It really does all start here, and the journey of discovery is much more prized and worthwhile then the actual end result. In that respect the way XDA is, is the way it should be.
Sometimes the best way to come to grips with something is to forget about it for a little while. Let your mind work it over running in the background, and when you bring it back into focus you'll have a better hold on what you need, and what you still have to learn.
Again, feel free to ask any questions you may have and we'll do the best we can to get you set in the right direction.

Ya, it was like mass overload the other day; it was like trying to make a PBJ sandwhich, then realizing I have to bake my own bread from scratch, grind up peanuts into butter, and somehow pick my own berries for jam, etc...
Anyways, I read over some of those topics again and some of it makes a little more sense. But still, some of those threads are so damn long, Im not gonna read each and every post from top to bottom of the thread, at least not yet. But the main issue I've realized is definitely going to be a problem is the fact that turning S-Off is irreversible. There is absolutely no method of turning S-On after its been turned off, which doesnt seem to make any sense; I figure, if you are able to flip a light-switch on, its only obvious you should be able to flip the switch off. So why is the 'S-Off' method a one-way path? And is this problem going to be fixed?
I read a bunch of articles and tutorials on 'unrooting' the MT4GS, and each one says that it will change the phone back to the stock factory condition it was in before rooting. Of course, once I scroll down and keep reading comments, everyone says that there isnt a way to turn "S-ON". SO, how the hell would someone be able to root their phone while still ever having the option to do a warranty exchange? Unrooting is great cause it gets you most the way there. But I've been reading that when T-Mobile recieves the phone, they send it to HTC for inspection/repair, and thats where they look at all the software/firmware/h-boot/recovery/S-ON Versions to make sure they are at factory specs. So once again, even though it is possible to "unroot" the MT4GS if need be, it still impossible to fully go back to factory standard (which is exactly what I was worried about).
Thats ****ty cause I was actually willing and ready to start rooting via theunlockr.com's method (cause its a hell of a lot easier than any tutorial in these forums, it does it the same way, its just easier to understand). BUT, that S-ON/S-OFF snafu is enough for me to reconsider. As I'm sure there are tons of benefits to rooting and therefore I may not ever want to unroot, I still may need to for the sake of the warranty exchange. And believe me when I say that I NEED to have the ability to exchange; I've had to exchange the MT4GS 5 times within 3 consecutive weeks because each one I recieved in the mail had some physical manufacturer defects. And since the most recent replacement is a refurb, I need to leave that Warranty-Door open in case I need to exchange.... again.
By the way, I forgot why S-Off was required in the first place. Is it possible to remain rooted without S-Off???

@eon said:
Ya, it was like mass overload the other day; it was like trying to make a PBJ sandwhich, then realizing I have to bake my own bread from scratch, grind up peanuts into butter, and somehow pick my own berries for jam, etc...
Anyways, I read over some of those topics again and some of it makes a little more sense. But still, some of those threads are so damn long, Im not gonna read each and every post from top to bottom of the thread, at least not yet. But the main issue I've realized is definitely going to be a problem is the fact that turning S-Off is irreversible. There is absolutely no method of turning S-On after its been turned off, which doesnt seem to make any sense; I figure, if you are able to flip a light-switch on, its only obvious you should be able to flip the switch off. So why is the 'S-Off' method a one-way path? And is this problem going to be fixed?
I read a bunch of articles and tutorials on 'unrooting' the MT4GS, and each one says that it will change the phone back to the stock factory condition it was in before rooting. Of course, once I scroll down and keep reading comments, everyone says that there isnt a way to turn "S-ON". SO, how the hell would someone be able to root their phone while still ever having the option to do a warranty exchange? Unrooting is great cause it gets you most the way there. But I've been reading that when T-Mobile recieves the phone, they send it to HTC for inspection/repair, and thats where they look at all the software/firmware/h-boot/recovery/S-ON Versions to make sure they are at factory specs. So once again, even though it is possible to "unroot" the MT4GS if need be, it still impossible to fully go back to factory standard (which is exactly what I was worried about).
Thats ****ty cause I was actually willing and ready to start rooting via theunlockr.com's method (cause its a hell of a lot easier than any tutorial in these forums, it does it the same way, its just easier to understand). BUT, that S-ON/S-OFF snafu is enough for me to reconsider. As I'm sure there are tons of benefits to rooting and therefore I may not ever want to unroot, I still may need to for the sake of the warranty exchange. And believe me when I say that I NEED to have the ability to exchange; I've had to exchange the MT4GS 5 times within 3 consecutive weeks because each one I recieved in the mail had some physical manufacturer defects. And since the most recent replacement is a refurb, I need to leave that Warranty-Door open in case I need to exchange.... again.
By the way, I forgot why S-Off was required in the first place. Is it possible to remain rooted without S-Off???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not permanently. you'd have to temp-root every time you reboot.
Revolutionary is about the easiest way to root a phone in existence so I'm not sure why you're so scared... assuming you have adb working, it's literally as easy as plugging your phone in and opening a single file in the Revolutionary zip archive. everything is done for you. as long as you don't download their faulty recovery (it will ask you if you want to... just say no), it's literally the easiest rooting method available that I've ever seen.
don't make it too complicated. I certainly believe in having all of your bases covered, especially when it comes to potentially screwing up a $500 bundle of plastic, metal and silicone, but rooting is not a big deal anymore.
many people will tell you that they have received warranty replacements after sending in S-OFF/rooted phones. my best guess would be that HTC/Tmo randomly pick phones to "thoroughly check" and the majority don't receive this type of treatment.. and even if they find a rooted device, there's no telling whether or not they will deny your replacement.
I received a warranty replacement (faulty hardware buttons, the leds never turned off) for my gal's rooted MT4GS simply by installing the stock rom and recovery, but still with Revolutionary's hboot installed. No issues whatsoever. I'm not saying it's "right" and I'm not guaranteeing you the same result, just offering my first-hand experience.
here's how you can obtain perma-root and s-off in ~10 minutes. no complicated guides:
www.revolutionary.io
download installer, enter serial # to get your code.
open archive and find the installer... let it run.
when it's done, you'll be rooted and s-off with a custom hboot. say "no" to the download recovery option and manually flash the official CWM recovery, or modaco's 4.0.0.9 recovery image. (either should be fine, although roms are going to start coming out that may have issues with the 4.0.0.9 modaco recovery so cwm is probably your best bet)
if not being able to flip the S-OFF switch back to S-ON at this point is something you can't get over, this isn't for you. personally, I spent $500 on this phone and I'm going to do whatever the hell I want to it, and if TMO and HTC have a problem with that, I will happily take my business elsewhere.

Its not rooting that I'm worried about, its the possibility of having to do (yet another) warranty exchange and being caught sending back a warranty-void device. And since I just found out that my premium phone insurance extends my warranty for an indefinite amount of time, I imagine that i will undoubtedly be exchanging this phone sometime in the future. I can only hope that by then either the S-Off thing has been fixed or T-Mobile announces they no longer care. I can see both happening, honestly.
Rooting is going to be the easy part, if/when I decide to do it. The last things I havent yet figured out are:
-Which Rom(s) I'm going to try. When I compare most roms side by side, they all seem vaguely identical. I remember Cyanogen having the option of fully customized visual aspects/themes, as well as tons of settings/features that werent offered through other roms. But the problem with CM is that, as you said before, the several camera options/modes in the stock rom are not being used by CM. I'm looking for a rom that is, above all, stable; lightweight/fast; includes all camera features of stock rom; and if apps like gmaps wont be included, I'd like to be able to find something that is comparable, or even better if possible. If not, I really hope the market allows gmaps to be installed on a rooted device (a while back on my rooted phone, the install of gmaps would always fail) Also, you had mentioned that you were nearing completion of a Rom of your own, so I might read up on that as well.
-I read up on that article on micro sd cards regarding speed comparisons, so I ended up running the benchmark app on my pc and found that my SanDisk 8bg Class 4 was (apparently) faster than my currently used Samsung 16gb Class 2, which sucks cause I like having more space than I use. But anyways it got me thinking, I realize that speed is important for file-transfers and also running apps that have been moved to the sd, but I could have sworn I remember someone talking about how they had rooted and then installed their OS/Rom onto their SD card instead of the phone itself. I dont know if I read that wrong or not. And if that was accurate, then I want to know if there is truly any benefit from doing that or not.
-Also, in regards to sd cards, I remember last year when I had a rooted MT3G with Amon Ra's recovery, there was an option to throw in partitions. Almost everyone I talked with on here told me to add a partition. Then after a few updates to the recovery, I noticed new options in the partition section: Ext.2, Ext.3, and Ext.4 as well as the options to select the partition size and "swap" size. I never did understand what exactly the difference (if any) between "Ext.2, Ext. 4.... etc" was.
And as far as the "swap" size, I remember there being a LOT of debate over what exactly this number should be. Some people started suggesting outrageously high numbers, while others explicitly explained to not do that, because apparently the lower the number the faster it becomes. Ok, so if thats the basic concept, great. But I still never did find any reliable information regarding "swap" size.
So ya, those are the final questions/issues that have been bugging me. Any advice/help is greatly appreciated.

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