So long microsoft! - General Topics

Well it's been a long time coming but I'm finally giving up on microsoft to produce a decent handheld OS. I've used the XDA's since the first one, I've owned an XDA, XDAII, mini, jamin, k-jam and a polaris and I can honestly say that the OS has not improved one iota all these years.
No i'm not going with the iPhone, I'm going to get a simple old nokia and just use a UMPC for any mobile trickery needed.
This is NOT a jab at all the brilliant developers of this community which have carried MS's cash cow all these years on their shoulders - you truly were the ONLY reason to buy a PocketPC.
Here's hoping things improve, but don't hold your breath.
*Polaris eBayed*

I give him 3 weeks.

addicus said:
I give him 3 weeks.
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lulz indeed

i give him 4 weeks... hehe

considering the amount of mobile phones he has had with WinMO, it will be a huge shock to go back to a nokia... He will for sure be back soon! Just a crisis like we all have some times...

I´ll stick to WM till Android has a more stable and mature OS
Symbian and Iphone systems never!

Well best of luck with the OS change. We'll be here if you decide to return someday...

I will join this guy as soon as the next Android drops.

Ev0luti0n_ said:
considering the amount of mobile phones he has had with WinMO, it will be a huge shock to go back to a nokia... He will for sure be back soon! Just a crisis like we all have some times...
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I went to a nokia after the jasjam aka: tytn. It took me 8 months to come back

I think Defroster has been understood wrongly. As I believe he doesn’t think there is better OS but he just voicing out his disappointments of MS and WinMo improvements.
I have to say I fully AGREE with him on this.
My device history is almost the same. The reason that I bought my first WinMo was to combine PDA with Phone so that I don’t need to carry 2 devices. I paid for my first device (2002) almost 1000USD. Many of my friends and colleagues thought I am crazy to spend so much money.
Yes it was not fully Phone but also not fully a PDA (computer) but I though just hang on for couple months then MS will improve the things tremendously.
But look to the changes/improvement that WinMo has made in last 7-8 years which are in my opinion Almost Nill. However the devices cost still ca.1000USD..
Be frank just for comparison: Do we see any desktop software that has almost the same capability and same UI after 8 years???….but cost the same money??
Furthermore look in to the upcoming WinMO 6.5. I believe it is just ridiculous to put such crap in to the market after 1-2 years development by a Huge Company like Microsoft. Again I don’t see any improvements and Still there is nothing out of the box..
If I would be Bill Gates I would immediately Fire all the WinMo Team. It is unacceptable for Engineering company to rest on a product for more than 8 years and don’t have any major changes. The best example for such behavior is the American Auto Industry.
Ohh well It is well known that if a Company is to large the efficiency of that company compare to middle sized one much much lesser but they DO have longer breath.
Yes Yes I know the bad thing is there are no much better alternatives right now.
However same As Defroster I am considering getting better value for same money (1000 USD) Therefore I am seriously Looking to the new 9-10inch Netbooks like Asus Eee ; Acer aspire, MSI Wind etc. They are costing less than 500 USD (some of them around 300USD) those have Standard battery live up to 8hous. Additionally I am thinking to get one of those simple Smart phones like HTC Excalibur or Cavalier. Yes that would set me back again 8 years but I get better value for my money and can be much more productive then I am with a single expensive toy…

I too totally agree. Microsoft is such a big company and yet it never deliver what a user want or need for so many years! Is it that they have no Competitors for the pass 8 years?
The biggest change I saw was when HTC came out with TouchFlo 3D. Nice cool looking interface, smooth scrolling, Finger friendly, Easy access to messaging, web, ETC. And they are only just covering up the ugly part of microsoft winmo. And HTC did it in just a short time. Even now with the new Winmo 6.5, the Titanium screen looks crappy! The font on the screen are so ugly, the item list covering the whole screen. scrolling thru the list is a torture to my eyes. It scroll the list not the selection!!
I believe with enough time Android will be far ahead.

Let us all cross our fingers than 6.5 becomes a flop.
Don't you remember what happened to the flop we call Vista? The successor Windows 7 has fixed all those bugs and works like a proper OS.
Hopefully a flop will make them realize that they need to take their finger out and actually produce something decent (not saying WinMo is bad or anything).

/me joining the android bandwagon asap. For sure the OS for the future

PPC is too good to be replaced..
I definately won't change back to nokia, SE or any non WM devices..
I need alot of medical softwares.. and those can't provide any decent 1

Ehhh, If you think about it, Microsoft is always going to be a Big Company.

DhaMajoR said:
Ehhh, If you think about it, Microsoft is always going to be a Big Company.
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Oh yes! another great comment!
And Cocacola too

orb3000 said:
Oh yes! another great comment!
And Cocacola too
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Okay mister 2000 Posts... Will im at 100 ,
Another genius!

i am fine with the way it looks. if you are unhappy with the software make your own; or find some one else to make some for you.

josefcrist said:
i am fine with the way it looks. if you are unhappy with the software make your own; or find some one else to make some for you.
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I don't either. There are many choices for looks. It can look like nearly anything out there. Flexibility. Name of the game.

everyone has their own point of view,
as for me?
i think its good as long as this forum is up and running
lots of ppl hlps ere so i dun care what microsoft does...

Related

Apple iPhone

Just wanted to show what apple just presented. Looks kinda cool
Hopefully a worthy adversary to wm5
More info macfeber.se (swedish site)
[edit: guys I'm going to temporarily sticky this. Please don't open new threads. V]
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=233
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/live-from-macworld-2007-steve-jobs-keynote/
My God. Time to change my nappy.
We're shipping them in June -- we're announcing it today because we have to go get FCC approval... we thought it'd be better to introduce this today rather than let the FCC introduce this.
Europe in the 4th quarter of this year, Asia in 2008.
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Man, suddenly my Hermes looks like poo
V
Have to wait to Q4 in Europe... So I guess it'll hit shelves next year at about this time
seen this Advertisement for it?
http://www.milkandcookies.com/links/46492/
Apple iPhone announced
Steve Jobs has announced the iPhone.
And the Apple fan boys have started already.
I would imagine that phone manufacturers like HTC will be relieved by the spec since they would have feared a truly innovative product.
As it stands, the iPhone is a poor relation to the TyTN.
just.......fracking......sweet.....must....stop....droooling.....
Holy freak, that's one sweet design.
HTC better start thinking and not just add a new feature once a year!
having just seen this on CNN News (thats all the bloody Germin hotel has in English) I have to say im not overly impressed. the screen looks good, the browser capability is excellent but apart from that theres nothing there that the TyTn cant do, in fact there was no mention of 3G and Video Phone. So what if itll have a decent music player, my SEW850i has a good MP3 player, its a good phone, it has 3G and Vid, browsers crap but hey if you want to look at web stuff use a PC
Take a look at the videos at apple.com looks awsome... I want one NOW!
Some thoughts... I can't see how it would work for a non-alphabetic language. Hand-writing recognition is easier with a stylus, IMHO.
It seems more like a cool toy. Lots of cool functionality, but limited in its Apple way as usual.
But at least give something for HTC to shoot for.
darn.. the phone looks very much similar to Windows based type, but much more fancier. With the multi-touch screen that allows you to zoom in by 'spreading' two fingers.. and how the screen change in a scrolling style.. just makes is much.. 'adorable'. And, as with the Apple's history, I think it will have all the stuff that is necessary .. such that there won't be any need for iphone-developers.com Again, since i'm on a low budget, it is out of my reach anyway.. good to have cheap and affortable WM version. Hope the Crossbow will do better.. and . . well, at least give us some eye candy?
... cause I have seen the future.
http://www.apple.com/iphone/
Sorry. But we are using real "crap" right now!
Maxi
damn thats some nice hardware ... if that thing didnt have apple "software" on it id prolly look at getting one. yahoo news was saying a retail price of $500 US for the 4 gig version ?
id miss my warez too much
Now that DOES look nice.
I'm watching BBC News 24 right now and they say that they have a feature about it coming up soon.
It has some nice innovative features but Apple don't seem to be saying too much about the hardware architecture - more specifically the CPU.
vijay555 said:
My God. Time to change my nappy...Man, suddenly my Hermes looks like poo
V
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vijay555, unless Apple provides *NATIVE* SDK I won't consider this phone as it means there is no possibility for interesting 3rd party applications (Tomtom is the first that comes to my mind) and I can't create applications.
Widgets are not the same thing as they do not have access to full system resources like Windows Mobile native and to an extent Compact Framework based applications.
Without native SDK this is not a true smartphone but more like Blackberry or a fancy high end phone.
It's on BBC News 24 right now...look VERY nice.
IPod - check
Pocket Computer - check
Cell Phone - check
Blackberry? Oh bugger! Well it's what the clueless jouralist said - I do hope he's wrong. Maybe he just mean blackberry-like features.
Raven - I'm inclined to agree with you re the SDK. Note, my comment re "defecating on my microphone" is based solely on it's cosmetic appearance.
No one can deny, it's a beautiful piece of engineering. Frankly, I'll probably buy one just to put it down my pants (underwear for those of the US persuasion).
No Windows Mobile manufacturer has come close to achieving the asthetic beauty of Apple engineering (well, except for the black diamond, but that's 600 times more expensive).
I have no doubt the interface work will also be topnotch.
This is not to put down current WinMob hardware. Well, actually it is. Apple has buying power and engineers. I love HTC's manufacturing quality, but Apple is lightyears ahead of the game (well, 5 years according to Steve) in terms of execution. I love my Hermes, but the iPhone looks great.
Whether those of us who rub their hands together at the prospect of modding and enhancing will get much out of it is yet to be seen. I've said before, I buy WinMob because I can program and enhance it. Even with second class hardware, that would still be my first consideration.
However. We are not Apple's market. Apple's market is average buyers who want to switch their bluetooth on and it work. No A2DP, no stutters, no "set as wireless stereo". Switch it on, music comes out of the things on your ears. Those guys will love it. I love it.
However, I have some ideas about bringing some of the goodness home to our phones
V
Here's a BBC News web site article...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6245991.stm
I can't possibly imagine Apple releasing a phone based on OS X, going up against Windows and NOT having at least as full an SDK as WM5. I also can't imagine it'll work as swell as it looks. We're on what generation of WM devices and they're just now starting to get reliable and intuitive.
Time will tell!
But yeah, the kid side of me is more than happy to shell out $600 tomorrow. It's that learning how to write for a new OS that kind of sticks in my throat.

Exciting News for everyone!!!

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/what.s-w...ow-wm7-and-wm8-are-going-to-fix-it-333536.php
Very interesting article
Wow, that was a great article! The author hit his points right on the head. Sounds like WM8 will be the one to go for, however who knows how long that will take to come out.
Also, in the meantime HTC has to get their heads out of their asses and release some quality and speedy hardware! What the hell happened to the OMNi, the Universal successor?! There's still not a decent phone that can replace it yet, and the Uni is over 2 years old! On the other hand, the i-Mate Ultimate 9502 looks like a decent piece of hardware (spec-wise) but its ugly as sin and the build quality will most likely be lower than HTC...I also hear that i-Mate is in financial trouble now too...
Oh well, I have finally completed the process of flashing a new WM5 ROM that I'm happy with, and my Uni is working great for now. I just hope that the future looks good for WM8 and HTC...I'll be sitting in my waiting chair for now, to see how this all develops over time.
well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile#Photon_.282009.29
wm7 will be out next year so it could take awhile before wm8 come around
The article is so sad. I have been using WM for years and it does everything I want and more. Every point the guy makes is easily fixable with any task manager, there are heaps or free ones.
A non power user dosen't care if the apps close or not.
Iphone is all about the hype, anything that it does WM has been doing for 10 years.
Thats how I feel too. I have very little problems but a new OS is always exciting. I know I was losing my mind the first time I found Faria's Crossbow for the wizard. That was my first taste of windows mobile 6 and it was great.
I almost wanna check out the ETEN x800. I havent seen any in the states. But im gonna keep my eye out. I love my Herm200 but hey thats got the memory of a 8925 and I think its like 500.
scar45 said:
There's still not a decent phone that can replace it yet, and the Uni is over 2 years old!
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I think I'll go back to the separated-device route. The iPAQ 214 for the workhorse, quality PDA and the Nokia N95 for the phone + GPS + camera + 3D hardware-accelerated gaming machine + HSDPA modem + push mail client.
scar45 said:
On the other hand, the i-Mate Ultimate 9502 looks like a decent piece of hardware (spec-wise)
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Too bad it's only PXA270-based... already outdated. A no-go for me. Why would I buy a non-PXA310-based device in 2008, when the iPAQ 214 already has the new CPU?
@Menneisyys
I think you may have made a tiny error, the iMate 9502 is the ugly one with a Qualcomm MSM7200 processor.
njakobs said:
The article is so sad. I have been using WM for years and it does everything I want and more. Every point the guy makes is easily fixable with any task manager, there are heaps or free ones.
A non power user dosen't care if the apps close or not.
Iphone is all about the hype, anything that it does WM has been doing for 10 years.
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Not to get into a WM vs iPhone debate, but I disagree. I have about every iteration of WM device and still choose the iPhone on a daily basis. I am not really a mac user or care about any of the hype, for me it is simply a great device and os. Yes, WM can do most of the things the iPhone can, but not with anywhere near the same ease of use (i.e. can anyone figure it out), speed (no task manager needed with a 600+Mhz processor) screen clarity (see it in sunlight!), touch screen responsiveness (capacitance vs resistance) accelerometer for auto landscape of the browser, pictures and iPod, and the amazing build quality. I won't even go into the applications and how amazingly intuative they are. To make my Touch XL or Tinity work even close to my iPhone it takes over ten added applications that don't always work together. If you think the iPhone is only hype, you likely have not spent any time with one - it's addicting. My point is simply to state that, as a WM user the iPhone has raised the bar both on the hardware and software side and I hope it is not years before Microsoft and the manufacturers catch up.
2manyphones said:
Not to get into a WM vs iPhone debate, but I disagree. I have about every iteration of WM device and still choose the iPhone on a daily basis. I am not really a mac user or care about any of the hype, for me it is simply a great device and os. Yes, WM can do most of the things the iPhone can, but not with anywhere near the same ease of use (i.e. can anyone figure it out), speed (no task manager needed with a 600+Mhz processor) screen clarity (see it in sunlight!), touch screen responsiveness (capacitance vs resistance) accelerometer for auto landscape of the browser, pictures and iPod, and the amazing build quality. I won't even go into the applications and how amazingly intuative they are. To make my Touch XL or Tinity work even close to my iPhone it takes over ten added applications that don't always work together. If you think the iPhone is only hype, you likely have not spent any time with one - it's addicting. My point is simply to state that, as a WM user the iPhone has raised the bar both on the hardware and software side and I hope it is not years before Microsoft and the manufacturers catch up.
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I guess you are right in a lot of aspects. However, Apple's flaw (and quite possibly the iPhone's downfall) is the lack of capability for the power users. Both my mom and my brother have iPhones so I have had plenty of chances to mess around with them. Not only did I not find it addictive, but after using it for 10 minutes, I just put it down and started messing around with my Blue Angel (now 3 years old and running WM6). I personally consider myself a medium (on the salsa scale ) power user of WM, but after watching a couple of YouTube videos and scrolling through album covers with my fingers while tilting the device back and forward, I started thinking: "well, now what?"
There are numerous advantages of iPhones over WM devices and vice-versa, but the article is mainly comparing the WM interface with the iphone's interface, and that is what this is all about. M$ interfaces have been progressively getting worse over the years (or at least not getting any better), while Apple completely hit a homerun with their interface. This sole fact gave birth to the future of WM. If you do not believe me, check out the "development and hacking" section of this forum and tell me how many new UIs you can see floating around. I personally have 4 in my device (FreeStyle, PointUI, iTask (came out yesterday), and Slither's Cube.
Hopefully, they will be able to do something based on what is out there (i.e. HTC X-Button (true closing any app), PointUI, PocketCM, TCPMP, etc, etc...). But make no mistake, there is a lot to be done to our devices, and hopefully M$ truly knows about it and are planning to do something about it...
Long Live XDA-Devs!!!!
another thing with iphone which may work agenst it in eu and asia is lack of t9 not very fast to write sms's in 10sec
heck here kids write sms's on their phones even in school under the table so the teacher dont take their phones even if the iphone keyboard is easier to use the defualt ms tiny keyboard phone pad and normal phones got a better chance of being used "blindfolded"
I do agree, the WM UI sucks by default and the usability leaves a lot to be desired. The good thing is that almost anything is possible. Luckily HTC and the devs of this site have fixed a huge number of WM flaws. My Touch was pretty usable out of the box. The devs here improved it even more by adding PocketCM for example. I just flashed the Shadow Wm 6.1 rom yesterday and it's damn fast, like having a new phone.
I would like a better browser and a more finger friendly UI. PointUI looks very promising but still has some issues. We'll get there, it just takes a while.
I do think WM has made big improvements over the years though. I remember my first WM phone (Orange SPV, Smartphone 2002), it was the worst phone I ever had although it did have some nice things at the time. I swore I would never ever buy a WM phone again. This summer I fell in love with the Touch and keep tinkering with it.
Rudegar said:
another thing with iphone which may work agenst it in eu and asia is lack of t9 not very fast to write sms's in 10sec.....
"
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Very good point Rudegar, another reason the iPhone will never fly in Asia is the lack of stylus for writing Chinese characters. MANY people who buy a touchscreen devicedo so exclusively so they can handwrite characters. The iPhone is going to have to change a lot for that to happen. Really, people shouldn;t think about the iPhone so much. It's going to probably never even make it to the asian market, which frankly is such a large market that US iPhone sales don't even make a difference. The real powerhouses are going to continue to be the people who dominate the asian handset markets.

Why the Lag !

I been using the iphone today.....what a smooth operator...everything just flows...the page animations the opening of applications...the look and feel, the way touch works. The typing (mind you Cooteks Touch and icontact is on par with it )very impressive...it even takes batter pictures than the cruise and its only got a 2meg camera...using my cruise everything is laggy....I cant wait for the drivers or update. If people like larna and others can do wonders to the speed of applications then what the hell are original developers and manufacturers doing. I say thank you for this forum...If HTC/Microsoft had been thorough as Apple was with the iphone the cruise/WM would be a different beast altogether.
I think Microsoft must be going through what Mercedes and BMW went through when the first Lexus model came out and caught them sleeping.
Nice phone the iphone but very limited when compared to ours....but things could change.
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
I think a capacitive Display would help much. I'm often not sure if pressing a soft button worked. That makes working on it feeling laggy (beside slow program starts).
The WM developers have ignored any work on the UI for years. Now they got payback, the WM UI looks like an ugly Windows 95 UI and is totally outdated.
You can see that a smooth UI is possible by looking at pointui.
But do not forget the WM advantages.
All the availabe software, for example WMwifirouter.
That on iphone? I think it will never be...
Agreed....I can only fault Microsoft in Slow Deveopement....whereas the Manufacturers trying to make everyhing generic compatible instead of optimizing....now if they even aimed for the latter, no only would our devices be useably versatile, they would be decently fast and efficient.
We can only hope that WM7 will better developed for touch and hopefully not a memory hogger ...aka Vista.
On June 2008 the rumor say we will have a 3G Iphone + integrated GPS + open SDK. All for not more than $500 USD.
Nobody will touch the touch cruise with a stick at that point (unless the price will be reduced to $250, or something close). So I believe we're going to see new phones from HTC pretty soon.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
Noam23 said:
With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
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I hate to say it but I think he's right.
I can and only will speak for myself, even though that may be the case for everyone else as well; but I use a WM based device because of the software. While the iPhone is faster, better looking, smoother flowing...as of right now it is locked down and requires hacks just to browse the file system!!
TheOnly1 said:
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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If you are reffering to the current iPhone, i would have to say you are DEAD on. However, if the new one lives up to what people are saying about it (an SDK, gps, 3g),
Then apple would have successfully created something that achieves both outcomes: A cool device with a fast, smooth flowing UI WITH functionality and productivity.
remoh said:
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
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Actually, it is up to the OEMs, not microsoft, to optimize windows mobile for each of their devices. This is where HTC fails time after time in my mind.
Microsoft gives them every opportunity to implement things accelerated graphics, among other things. HTC does not do it!!
And then has the audacity to blame the customers for buying devices based on their chipsets instead of what is actually implemented (or NOT implemented -- LOL).
Since my last HTC purchase of the Touch Cruise, which cost me almost $900 I am extremely upset and dissapointed, not to mention disillusioned. The kaiser and the TC could have been great, but HTC did not want them to be -- they are slow, clunky, unresponsive at times, and i don't see why HTC even put a camera on them 'cause the pictures and video are better left not being captured at all.
If the new iphone lives up to it's promises, i see no reason to ever purchase, nor use another htc product ever again. That is the thing though...Apple is one of those companies I just do not trust and/or like....but just having the possibility of a device like the new iphone will keep my interest peaked!
If everything goes as planned, I believe that mobile developers will definately take advantage of the SDK.
While it will take many months for all the developers out there to create good applications, it will happen.
I'll actually go as far as saying that iPhone software will in fact exceed that of WM software in the future -- Provided that apple releases a decent sdk and does not place absurd restrictions on developers.
Think about it...how long have WM devices been out for...and what is their popularity?
Compare that to how long the iPhone has been out for, and it's popularity...
While currently they are for two completely different concepts;
one for user friendly every day usage, and one a "business" device...
apple seems to be combining both concepts into something that I would consider a "dream" device that I have been waiting for from HTC to put out for years now.
I thought that the TC would in fact be something closely resembling my "dream" device -- And after I actually used it and saw all of the problems with it first hand, I quickly recognized I was completly wrong.
Let's see if Apple can successfully accomplish what HTC has consistently set out to -- and subsequently failed to do so many times.
If they can pull this off, I will definately consider myself a proud iphone owner / user.
i have to admit the only reason i did not buy an iphone its because i did not want to switch to at&t and evryone where i work has one. i just wanted something different so i bought the touch cruise. i am regreting it even as i type. 700plus usd down the drain. when the new iphone is out this summer i am definitely getting one and switching to at&t
i wish i could get my hands on one of the htc developers. i would beat the life out of him. for real. i am mad and pissed. even the clone iphone, the hiphone which i saw with my own two eyes and held in my hands is better than touch cruise. its only 200usd
There are a lot of Touch user using WM device not having too many complaint. I like UI and build of iPhone, but I never forget the experience what smart phone of Nokia and Sony Ericsson running in Symbian. People will just imagine what Apple will enhance the iPhone and offer what we have used in WM device. Just like people asking why manufacturer not offering VGA device. Why don't have a look of the delay of Sony Ericsson X1? Keep an eye on what Apple implement the SDK into their iPhone and software developer introduce program, and to compare what we have with WM device. Looking forward to have a device running in X OS with VGA display with weeks of power with plenty choice of softwares .... and lastly without lag. Just like years ago we are looking for a VGA WM device. Manufacturer like HTC will make such device if it can.
Are you guys serious about the Touch Cruise camera being poor? It has one of the best cameras I've ever seen on a mobile, save for the lack of flash.
-3 Megapixels
-Autofocus
-Excellent macro mode (try taking a picture of anything close up (~3inches) with this vs. a normal camera under normal lighting...TC holds its own, or better yet take a picture of something close up and compare those results to those of an IPhone)
-Auto switch to night mode in poor lighting (remember camcorders with night mode also exhibit lag in night mode, but normal cameras don't lag as they don't use a night mode since they have a flash!)
I must agree with Sonus on the camera. I actually printed out some pictures I took with my TC and they were pretty much OK on paper.
i do believe the tc is a very good device with advantages and disadvantages same as the iphone.
the thing that annoys me most (also while writing this text) the input lags in the touch keyboard or other apps, e.g. switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.
the good things are:
100% customization
tons of apps - navigation, wlm etc
lastly, i have see the iphone hanging - it could not connect immediately to wifi
I'm positive Apple is not going to put HTC out of business on June 2008, when the 3G iphone is supposedly coming out.
HTC will definitely release formidable competition on fall 2008, probably the dream machines we always wanted to have. My only complaint is that the Touch Cruise / Kaiser have the hardware to be much of that "dream machine", but aren't so because HTC doesn't think it is necessary since these products are competitive enough as it is, in today's market.
I agree with the only1.
Just think of it in business terms, the iphone and touch cruise are aimed at different markets. HTC could probably produce a iphone type device but why should it. HTC devices are more business orientated and sold as such, they are not (imho) trying to compete with consumer based ideas and what looks sexy when playing music or videos. They are aimed at different markets.
If people want a device to look good show off pictures and videos and play music they buy a iphone, for gods sake its a ipod touch that makes calls, so no comparison.
If people want to do all of the above and have a device that can be used as a great business tool buy a touch cruise.
Okay there are some faults but they will probably be fixed on the next device but that too will have its shortcomings and we will give out **** about it and compare it to the newest goddam wonderful iphone, jphone, kphone or whatever with hdtv or can make coffee but thats life. I know we paid big money for what we have but for jaysus sake its "not ****en dark". i.e. you could see what your were buying.
Just my opinion.
A bit strong maybe but thats life.
I dont know what you guys have done to your devices to make the camera so good, but unless i am taking pictures outside when it is sunny out, it will NOT come out clearly at all -- it is very distorted and grainy, not to mention it slows down to a crawl! I have a sony cybershot 2.1 MP camera from 2002 that takes better pictures than a TC cam -- and it cost about 150$ 6 years ago. When its dark or indoors, the LCD on the cybershot doesn't slow down to 1-5 FPS.
Now people say that the TC is a business device and that's true.
But, I for one am sick of trading off functionality for performance on the business devices produced from HTC.
Why can't it be both at the same time?
Unfortuneately, I did go in the dark on this one. Before I bought the TC I didn't research the video driver problems.
I only looked at the specs, researched the chipset and thought I was getting something that would (at least) out perform my PPC-6700 that I purchased over 3 years ago. I was wrong. I don't think HTC will go out of business...not at all, but i DO think that alot of people are in a similar boat that I am in...betrayed by HTC and will continue to hold a grudge against them, and subsequently switch to someone who can provide something better in the future...hopefully, that can be Apple...but I definately have some doubts to say the least, considering what the current iPhone came out as -- a Media player with a phone on it.
PseudoReal said:
switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.i
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OMG, i have the SAME problem...it is the WORST!!
you have to tap the stupid triangle like 50 times just to get it to switch.
It's an atrocity. Devices from 3 years ago do not even have this problem.
Business device or not, this is just plain unacceptable.
Unless there is a fix for this problem, or I am doing something wrong and do not know about it?
How many ppl have similar experience?
I have that same problem. Takes multiple clicks and major lag to get the input keyboard to show up. The reason I have to chance keyboards is I often use Opera 9.5 and for some reason none of the Touch keypads work with it, so I have to switch them (I think that's another problem could be related to Opera still being beta). Also every once in awhile I can't get to the PocketCM keyboard and instead get the lame Windows default one. But that also is another problem.
Back to the lag, every once in awhile I will get lag here or there, e.g. will click on the task manager on the top right and not get anything, keep clicking around with no response. Then all of a sudden all the clicks take effect and I will see the task manager menu open and close in succession real quick.
All in all it's a good device, great functionality, just a few quirks here or there. Maybe it's time to hard-reset or flash a new ROM that might solve some of these things, who knows.
Oh forgot, as for the camera lag with the low FPS in low light conditions, check out this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
HTH
thanks for that... the "trick" described in the first post does increase the response by 10 fps or so, but the thing is, the picture quality also goes down...its a lose/lose situation i guess lol...I also noticed that there is a new .dll fix on the HTC E-club, but only for the kaiser. I tried to login but it says theyre doing maintainance right now, so I can't check if there's anything released for the TC...even so I doubt there is
but my issue is, and always has been..why should i need to do all of these tricks and patches for a device that costs as much as the TC does? I shouldn't. No one should.
also another thing that came to my mind...people and HTC say this is a "business device"...so i was thinking, wouldn't business users want their devices to be MORE responsive than a media player / cool trendy "sexy" device?
I mean when you need to wait 5 seconds and tap the screen multiple times to play a music file, it's not really that big of a deal...it's an annoyance yes but it doesn't result in you losing work time..or a loss of productivity
but when you need to tap the X button 5 times to close out of a document and switch to your email...or taking notes and browsing web pages for work related stuff...or trying to switch between SIP's...and having to wait because the device lags worse than windows 95...it becomes a loss of productivity...
even if it's only seconds, those seconds add up, and the annoyances stock pile into one big ball of rage for me at least, heh.
I do admit that my own foolishness and quickness to buy a new device is partly to blame here. I should have looked into it more. But I also think that HTC holds a good part of the blame as well.
hopefully the geniuses here can come up with some good fast custom roms that will deal with these issues...i won't hold my breath waiting for this patch to come out from HTC at the end of the month. I'm doubtful that it will do anything at all.

Will You Switch To the iPhone 2.0?

As June 9th is just around the corner, I am just curious who will switch over to the new 3G iPhone? This maybe the wrong place to ask since everyone is a WM user including myself, very happy with my Trinity, but just really curious as to what it will take for you to switch to the new iPhone. I used the current iPhone for just over a month and I must say that Safari, the screen, and the user interface is unmatched atm. It did lack many things but with the SDK launching it could be a whole new world. Just curious what your thoughts are...and just incase you are curious my iPhone was a lemon (long story) so it just heated up and broke. Since I unlocked it myself the warranty was voided.
Depends on whether it'll be able to record calls. If it can, I may dump my current HTC Oxygen (one of the VERY few HTC models to support recording) and switch to the iPhone,
no
maybe if i can handwrite on it
Another no here.
WM is more versatile for me, that and I dont like the dumbed down approach that Apple takes on all of its devices.
Also with the X1 around the corner, I don't think I'll be making the switch any time soon.
No Way! WM rules!
But, let us know how it works out for u after a few months?
galaxys said:
No Way! WM rules!
But, let us know how it works out for u after a few months?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will need GPS for me to get it, and I don't want something that half the world may have...
It will probably be the Raphael or the X1 for me.
dumbed-down is a little unfair. The approach of the Iphone is to make things simple so that everyone can enjoy it. I'm used to Winmo and I'm used to Symbian but there is a definite draw to the Iphone's sleek, intuitive and WELL THOUGHT OUT system. What's WRONG with simple if all the functionality is there? Would you not take all the features of Winmo if they were put into a simpler package? Or is it better to have everything bogged down in menus?
Granted it's not there yet, but with external GPS support at least the Iphone could become serious competition - people aren't apeing its ideas for nothing.
The SDK release has seen a huge surge in development for the Iphone: it has to be seen to be believed.
I may get an Iphone; I probably won't but it crosses my mind occasionally. At the very least the introduction of the Iphone has made Windows Mobile users' experience a HELL OF A LOT BETTER as Opera 9.5 and Iphone-mimicing systems such as Touchflo prove.
I'm a proud WM owner here however I do own the first iPhone (don't use it much) and I propably will buy the iPhone 2.0 but I doubt I will use it as a primary phone. I'm a bit of a gadget freak and like to handle the devices myself rather then read about them but with all the things I can do with the WM devices I doubt I will switch to the iPhone.
I'm too dependent on 3rd party apps as references, so NO I won't switch at the moment.
...
Lol! Great poll! WinMo all the way for me!
I'll keep my device and continue to trump the iPhone users with my device, even if it is upgraded, I'll just upgrade more!
GPS was one of my "must have" for a phone and if the 2nd Gen iPhone has it, it will definitely be worth looking at. It took a very long time for WM to get GPS to be pretty much standard and if it only took Apple one year to put GPS on then they are really listening to the average consumers. IMHO I highly doubt there will be built in GPS or A2DP. Only time will tell.
I once thought that if iPhone has GPS, if it has ability to take in spare battery, if it has a slot for microSDHC, if it has 7.2Mb/s download speed, then I would definitely switch over. But then I think again, and said, no, I still won't.
The first reason is I have so many very attractive third party software that would only run on win mo platform and not iPhone platform.
The second reason is that some of the winmo phone are already having close to iPhone user interface anyway. HTC diamond, HTC Raphael, Sony Xperia X1, just to name a few.
The third reason is that I'm a person who get bored with the same phone very quickly, no matter how complete it is, how user friendly it is, and how slick it is. I just need to change the way it looks and feel every now and then without actually changing the phone itself. Winmo is the only platform that lets me do this. I change ROM, I change what gets shown on the today screen, I change the resolution (96 to 128, to 192), giving me a feeling that it is a completely new phone every now and then. I keep swaping in and out my weather program, my youtube player, my file explorer. I spend considerable of my freetime looking for better and newer third party applications, and this hobby is additive almost. If I switch to iPhone, I guess I'd be happy with it only for a few days, and then it'd be just boredom after that.
In some ways iPhone is ahead of the pack, but it is way way behind in many other respect and is playing a catch up game. Sorry, but this is true. It is understandable because it is still new in this field.
I wont upgrade to iphone as I dont like apples 'Locked Down' approach to everything... if they want more dominance then they need to open it up... not just by offering applications through itunes.
I'd need full synchronization with MS Offce, similar to what you get from Activesync before considering iphone.
No, not at all. Until Apple realise that "youtube" isn't important enough to warrant its own menu icon then their devices won't appeal to me! I like the versitality of Windows Mobile devices
eaglesteve said:
If I switch to iPhone, I guess I'd be happy with it only for a few days, and then it'd be just boredom after that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You hit it on the head right there, my friend. I get bored and change things up constantly...I don't know if I could handle being stuck with the same screens forever.
For my work (techy for large manufacturing corp.) I have both an iPhone (beta 2 firmware) and Treo 750 (wm6 to 6.1 depending on how I feel that day/week) and while the iPhone does some multimedia stuff better, but from a total end-user experience the Treo is a much better device. I however, have to believe that the next "true" incarnation of the iPhone (this 3g release not being it) will be much closer to the "desktop" experience. When they do "open" the device to end user customization (i.e. installing apps, fine tuning device behavior) in addition to adding basic functionality (e.g. cut and paste) and continued in-roads to exchange they will then have a product to compete against. I will give Apple the nod that they certainly raised the bar with this 1st attempt - look at all the threads here trying to duplicate the home page and all the advances in the touch ui that have since taken place. Granted this may have eventually come about, but the iPhone has to be given credit for "encouraging" more fervent development.
But since that is just a "hunch" right now, I will only hope my employer gives me the 3g upgrade just so I don't have to suffer through edge any longer. But really am looking forward to seeing the Diamond and/or Raphael in the states. What I have seen of the UI is just brilliant and looks to have raised the bar I earlier mentioned a couple of notches higher still.
Cheers!
sure, iPhone is an eye candy, but other than that. It is really a flashy toy to lug around. For functionality, I would stick with either Diamond or Sonyericsson X1.
ir the iphone had third party applications allowing a wider margin of customization, gps, tv.............. maybe id get it as a plaything or a pet for my Sprint Touch lol but not my main phone fo sho, it looks nice and flashy but thats the case, its designed for dumb pple that dont know much about modern functuality in a phone and lets themselves be seduced of the looks and flashy interface leading them to believe that its Gods phone lol, makes me laugh... anyway id admit that i might get it but not as my main phone
think i will be getting it will still use WM tho i'll have both i just liek the way the iphone looks and feels nice and sexy

Iphone 3G vs Polaris

I am a WM user for 4 years now. My first device was Magician, second one is Polaris and the next one will be Iphone 3G.
I love HTC, they make perfect phones and the price does not bother me, neither lack of video drivers does. I always admired all the latest technologies they include in their phones (3MP camera, 3G+HSDPA, GPS, etc..).
The only thing I don't like in HTC is ... MICROSOFT WINDOWS. I hate using stylus. It is absolutely not user-friendly.
Now, with HSDPA and GPS in Iphone I am willing to sell my polaris. Just after 5 months of using! I used my magician for 3 years before and thought I will keep my new one for another 3 years. But I give up now. I want to buy a brand new Iphone now. Never used apple products before (even Ipod).
So, my question is - do you guys know any forum similar to this one (technical), but related to Iphone stuff?
Thank you for answers and sorry for leaving you in advance.
I understand and do myself feel that we are being cheated, but i say you should search google with " iphone discussion forum" and that search will lead you rightto one, i have seen a few, i dont have an iphone,(i might get one when the video calling gps one comes out.) but i do browse to see what iphone users azre getting up to with there devices.
g oogle is your best friend.
Mate, don't do it. The new iPhone only has a 2 Meg pixel camera, and you'll be tied into some ghastly price plan for life. Wait for the Raphael, which is personally my Holy Grail of phones. Ah, a real keyboard. soooo yummy
I agree about Windows Mobile, it sucks. And the new HTC Flo nonsense looks rubbish aswell, but you know....
Apple announced NOTHING exciting (appart from MobileMe, where the HELL is windows contact/calendar over-the-air synching without Exchange????). But still they gave ir a huge launch. 3G and GPS - big deal!
or the new Samsung i900 Omnia http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i900_omnia-2422.php seems to be very interesting device. I propebly sell my polaris and buy a Iphone or this Samsung. In some way im to bored with the htc policy with their devices, first i have the Trinity and waited if htc could atleast make a wm6 update on trinity..but now way..then Polaris with this driver issue forexample. Polaris may be my last htc device. The only thing which is very good to have a Htc device is this forum or the hole xda developers www site
I'll wait and see what can Android bring out of my Polaris... I like the design of the polaris, and with Android it'll be better... and more finger friendly...
madinga said:
Wait for the Raphael, which is personally my Holy Grail of phones. Ah, a real keyboard. soooo yummy
...
Apple announced NOTHING exciting (appart from MobileMe, where the HELL is windows contact/calendar over-the-air synching without Exchange????). But still they gave ir a huge launch. 3G and GPS - big deal!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definitely would not say that the Raphael is the Holy Grail of phones. In fact it is far from it. The raphael is just a Kaiser with a flush screen and prettier touch flo. Big deal, nothing new.
Now I am a huge WinMo fan, but I can still say that the iPhone while it may not be a Holy Grail either, it is still the standard to which all high end phones are being held. It is far from perfect yes, but nonetheless it is the current standard. I'd venture to say that the majority of us that aren't switching b/c we are waiting for some little details in the form of functionality that we've enjoyed with our HTC phones. For some that may be 3G and GPS, for other such as myself 3rd party apps (VOIP!!!), and better bluetooth support (A2DP and tethering). For you that is clearly
windows contact/calendar over-the-air synching without Exchange
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple is getting closer and closer to closing in on its list of inadequacies with the iPhone, HTC on the other hand is not (and yes I realise that may be b/c they are tied down to WinMo 6.1).
I don't see any WinMo phone coming anywhere near where I or I would assume most of us want until Windows Mobile 7 is released. Windows Mobile 6 is just too slow, too small button oriented, too menu driven, and too lacking innovation (seriously, the UI is pretty much the same as its been ever since WinCE days back in 2000 or earlier).
well Raphael got vga over kaiser but then with smaller screens not everybody may notice
the thing that wm got going for it is lots of programs free ones and comercials ones
vs. iphone and android but with time it's not a good sleeping pillow for ms
kinda funny that while the pc world is unhappy with the current ms offering of vista
and want the next thing windows 7
pda owners are unhappy what wm6.1 can offer vs. the compatition so they want the next thing windows mobile 7
wonder if ms will release them at the same time :S :O
i love windows mobile and will not buy iphone. i was just in an att store today and the guy told me besides the phone being slash by half. u have to pay a huge fee to sign up for service. somewhere over $100. he said it would better serve u if u already had an iphone and wait for an upgrade rather than buying the new one.
as for htc. i am done with them. i wish i could find one of the developers and kick there ass. i am moving to another maker as soon as one catches my interest.
Yeah seriously WM6 is a dated wack ass looking piece of work. All this Touch Flo nonsense is just HTC trying to give their devices a fresher look. Otherwise you'd be staring at that boring ass Today screen that doesn't look good in the ads. Even Apple had to use a screenshot of WM in their keynote speech at WWDC '08 as a joke (how background apps run). This is in addition to the ActiveStink comment, which might be warranted, but I digress.
Point is, it does need to be seriously freshened up as an OS which is what WM7 is all about. However that's still a ways away. Plus barely any WM phones out there have gesture sensors or multi-touch screens anyway. Actually I don't know any that have both. 2 things the iPhone has had since last year. I am also curious as to what Android will bring to the Polaris, but I'm fed up with this dated WM6 OS (and lack of drivers).
omaga said:
or the new Samsung i900 Omnia http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i900_omnia-2422.php seems to be very interesting device. I propebly sell my polaris and buy a Iphone or this Samsung. In some way im to bored with the htc policy with their devices, first i have the Trinity and waited if htc could atleast make a wm6 update on trinity..but now way..then Polaris with this driver issue forexample. Polaris may be my last htc device. The only thing which is very good to have a Htc device is this forum or the hole xda developers www site
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, what's the point? Omnia is just another WinMo ****! If you consider WinMo - Polaris is the best thing to buy! IMO.
yallow said:
Hey, what's the point? Omnia is just another WinMo ****! If you consider WinMo - Polaris is the best thing to buy! IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes ofcourse omnia is a wm phone. that wasnt my point. The point was how htc treads us comsumers, selling unfinnish products, you buy a expensive phone and things are missing in the phone which will be upgrade in the NEXT model. I like win mobiles no doubt about that and now im thinking Symbian vs Win. Sorry to say but did you read the Omnia spesifications at all? much better that Polaris?
Omnia kick ass with polaris from that point of view
Guys I have both the Orbit 2 and the first gen Iphone and both have there advantages.
However these are being eroded with Iphone 3G, namely GPS and 3G data access.
I have to admit the interface on the iphone is simply incredible, fast and accurate glass screen that does not scratch. it is an absolute joy to use.
is is intuitive at performing ANY function were the Orbit you have to think about what you are doing and then some. The interface on the Orbit is clumsy at best, whilst typing is a joke compared to the iphone, it's keyboard is a joy to use, I can type faster on it than I could achieve on my blackberry.
and to boot the build quality of the iphone is leagues ahead of the HTC product.
The facts are WM6.whatever is slow, cumbersome and needs the update now.
I will still use my Orbit2 as the PC modem function is superb but once the iphone 3G comes is released I would have to say it will get a lot less use.
Honestly. I was an huge fan of Symbian phones. Now the Polaris is my first WM device and I really like it. After a couple of customizations the device is "fingerfriendly" and I can't remember when I was using the stylus the last time.
But this is not the point. I prefer the Polaris all over the IPhone (3G) because...
... I like to change my battery on my own
... I like to send MMS
... I like to have at least an 3 MP camera on board
... I like to decide to customize the software on my own
... I like to decide who my operater of choice is
... and so on
and compare to the first IPhone the new one is build out of plastic, has still the same "features" and the "innovation" is nothing new.
I am waiting for the Raphael to exchange it with my Polaris. It gives me the freedom I used to have and the hardware features I prefer.
I can answer all those must haves apart from change battery as yes, just 'get an unlocked iphone' it gives you all those features.
Even the 2Mp camera on the iphone is comparable to the Orbit 2 3Mp.
However in the end everybody to their own.
Simply put IMO the Polaris is not finger friendly at all, the crappy plastic screen that scratches too easily is very un-responsive unless you use a stylus which defeats the object of having a touch screen phone.
I will admit the Polaris is a feature laden beast that has many strong points, but its operational method and UI cannot even come close to the Iphone, it is like comparing Mac OSX Leopard to Windows 95, the difference is that great.
mikee5402 said:
I can answer all those must haves apart from change battery as yes, just 'get an unlocked iphone' it gives you all those features.
Simply put IMO the Polaris is not finger friendly at all, the crappy plastic screen that scratches too easily is very un-responsive unless you use a stylus which defeats the object of having a touch screen phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can give you a much bigger list of things that you probably can't do even with a jailbroken iphone.
As for a screen that scratches, are you using a protector on there? Shouldn't be getting any scratches. I've heard others that don't use a screen protector and say they aren't getting any scratches either but i'm not willing to take the risk.
i dont really like the iphone's interface.. is.. bored.. maybe with a lot of graphic effects but is just VERY SIMPLE.. many programs for windows mobile can emulate that.. but iphone will never do what windows mobile does..
ORGANIZE..
because is not the same to have a folder for each thing than use a scrollable screen for all..
you should realize once and for all that there are different perfect phones for different people.
i love my polaris.. because it's a small, light device, with GPS and 3G ability.. which i will start using soon.
while other people prefer bigger screens they can buy 3.5inch screens.. i can't stand it.. but the iPhone 3G is good for them.
while i like having a modular operation system.. even tho windows mobile is not perfect, other people love having everything built in, such as in the iPhone. some other people don't mind about GPS.. .. i do.
but there isn't one best phone.. there are a few... depending on the needs of every individual.
What about the Sony Ericsson Experia X1. At first glance, I think it's more powerfull than the Iphone 3G, HTC Diamond (and variants), and the TC. It's WM based, 800x408 resolution, small, light, and works in the US.
yallow said:
I am a WM user for 4 years now. My first device was Magician, second one is Polaris and the next one will be Iphone 3G.
I love HTC, they make perfect phones and the price does not bother me, neither lack of video drivers does. I always admired all the latest technologies they include in their phones (3MP camera, 3G+HSDPA, GPS, etc..).
The only thing I don't like in HTC is ... MICROSOFT WINDOWS. I hate using stylus. It is absolutely not user-friendly.
Now, with HSDPA and GPS in Iphone I am willing to sell my polaris. Just after 5 months of using! I used my magician for 3 years before and thought I will keep my new one for another 3 years. But I give up now. I want to buy a brand new Iphone now. Never used apple products before (even Ipod).
So, my question is - do you guys know any forum similar to this one (technical), but related to Iphone stuff?
Thank you for answers and sorry for leaving you in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget... it'll be made by HTC!
And biig display is worth nill if not supported by applications.
Except if your main goal is to have nice media reproductor combined with phone
Touch Pro looks like killer device ATM...
Bodisson said:
Don't forget... it'll be made by HTC!
And biig display is worth nill if not supported by applications.
Except if your main goal is to have nice media reproductor combined with phone
Touch Pro looks like killer device ATM...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In general, I agree with you that higher resolution need to be supported by the apps. However, I've also go an Imate 6150, and I used to have an ETEN x800, and I can tell you that even though most of the apps didn't make the best use of the real estate, that the text was much more readable, colors were sharper, icons looked better, etc.
If it weren't for the crappy ROM that comes with the Imate, I would be using it now. And unfortunately, the hacker community for Imate devices isn't as developed as it is for HTC devices.
Of course the other downside to VGA (or higher) is higher power consumption.
Dave

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