Related
Right, I can't see an Issues list for this device yet so I'll start one:
1. A couple of times now, I've left my phone to charge overnight and woke up to an unresponsive device. Power button does nothing, screen is off and only way to get it device back up and running is to poke the soft-reset button OR remove and reinsert the battery.
2. Unresponsive buttons: every now and then the "right" button of the D-Pad does nothing, then suddenly it will start working again, same with the "Back" button though much more infrequent/noticable than the D-Pad issue I've experienced.
I did not expierence the first problem with the charging issue.
To close and app you can use the (arrow pointing left) key but sometimes i have to push it like 3 or 4 times before it respond.
Same with the touchscreen but i fixed that by increasing the touchpad sensitivity with a regedit.
My device has reset a few times while I been reading email or texts.
John
Guys. The whole phone besides the keyboard is touch sensitive. So the whole front keys and touchscreen. Increase sensitivity and it should work fine.
Kraize92 said:
Guys. The whole phone besides the keyboard is touch sensitive. So the whole front keys and touchscreen. Increase sensitivity and it should work fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Erm, I'm sorry but that's not right is it. The D-Pad, Send, End, Home and Back buttons are actual buttons as opposed to touch sensitive.
The zoom wheel is obviously a "touch" area too. The issue I am descriping seems to suggest that the switches might be a bit flakey rather than anything else.
no he is right all the buttons are PRESSURE (he said touch) sensitive..when they unvieled the diamond the ceo of htc demonstrated that the keys are pressure sensitie and even the cameria button can SENSE when your finger is approaching to ready the zoom ..here is the youtube vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTd3SUPSJsMit
pazookie said:
no he is right all the buttons are PRESSURE (he said touch) sensitive..when they unvieled the diamond the ceo of htc demonstrated that the keys are pressure sensitie and even the cameria button can SENSE when your finger is approaching to ready the zoom ..here is the youtube vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTd3SUPSJsMit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry my bad. WM phones used to be called touch sensitve but in reality they're pressure sensitive. The only touch sensitive phones out currently are the iPhones and the Omni I would say.
Syphon Filter said:
Erm, I'm sorry but that's not right is it. The D-Pad, Send, End, Home and Back buttons are actual buttons as opposed to touch sensitive.
The zoom wheel is obviously a "touch" area too. The issue I am descriping seems to suggest that the switches might be a bit flakey rather than anything else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the were actual buttons they would be capable of being pushed in which it's not possible to do
Issues:
HTC task man doesnt work properly.
Poor reception
Too many startup apps/services put on by htc to provide touch interface (which i hate)
why on eart you use operaloder on phones stratup just to get 2-3 more seconds fast load time for opera.
i think htc just over done this touch crap.
could anoyone access setupfiles on rom so i can use plain wm6.1
Kraize92 said:
If the were actual buttons they would be capable of being pushed in which it's not possible to do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hang on, you clearly don't own either Touch Pro or a Diamond, the D-Pad, Call, End, Home and Back buttons CAN BE PUSHED IN. They are actual buttons.
Syphon Filter said:
Hang on, you clearly don't own either Touch Pro or a Diamond, the D-Pad, Call, End, Home and Back buttons CAN BE PUSHED IN. They are actual buttons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. I'm sure of it. I have demoed both a touch pro and a diamond. I meant that they CANNOT be pushed in as you can on the kaiser. I know this for a fact and on every video you will see that it is mentioned as a pressure sensitive all around except for the keyboard. I'm sure of that. They are not real buttons. I guess you could push it in if it's just a piece of glass and paper underneath the actual pressure sensitive touchpad, but it wouldn't make it real buttons. I know what I'm talking about Unless HTC suddenly decided to make them real buttons which would kill their profits so I'm assuming that they wouldn't do that either. I demoed it about 2-3 weeks ago.
Syphon Filter said:
Right, I can't see an Issues list for this device yet so I'll start one:
1. A couple of times now, I've left my phone to charge overnight and woke up to an unresponsive device. Power button does nothing, screen is off and only way to get it device back up and running is to poke the soft-reset button OR remove and reinsert the battery.
2. Unresponsive buttons: every now and then the "right" button of the D-Pad does nothing, then suddenly it will start working again, same with the "Back" button though much more infrequent/noticable than the D-Pad issue I've experienced.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 - Not had that problem - hopefully that'll go after your next hard reset or ROM update - these damn things always have, and always will behave differently for different people, it seems!
2 - My Back button missed my press once or twice, but I think it's more of a hardware issue than a software issue though (or possibly user error!). I'll tell you now though, hitting the "Right" button on my Diamond was next to impossible. It was extremely stiff, and would eventually register as a press on the "Hang Up" button. Drove me absolutely mental! But I think I was the only Diamond user who had that problem, and my Raphael is fine.
having got one in my hand - they are tactile push bottons - i.e you push them until it clicks before an action happens.
ardsar said:
having got one in my hand - they are tactile push bottons - i.e you push them until it clicks before an action happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then I must be crazy. Since all I have to do is touch the button and a action happens. But my pressure threshold is very high.
Kraize92 said:
No. I'm sure of it. I have demoed both a touch pro and a diamond. I meant that they CANNOT be pushed in as you can on the kaiser. I know this for a fact and on every video you will see that it is mentioned as a pressure sensitive all around except for the keyboard. I'm sure of that. They are not real buttons. I guess you could push it in if it's just a piece of glass and paper underneath the actual pressure sensitive touchpad, but it wouldn't make it real buttons. I know what I'm talking about Unless HTC suddenly decided to make them real buttons which would kill their profits so I'm assuming that they wouldn't do that either. I demoed it about 2-3 weeks ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not going to get into an argument over this but the 9 buttons (Home, Back, Call, End, Up, Down, Left, Right and the centre of the D-Pad) on the face of the Diamond and the Touch Pro are buttons which have a tactile feedback, a press will not register until you "feel" the button pressed. The only thing in that area that is a "touch sensitive" thing is the zoom wheel.
Just because the area looks flush does not mean they are not buttons. There's a single piece of material that covers that area but I can assure you there are individual switches under there that provide a tactile feedback. You HAVE to feel that feedback for the button to do anything, simply touching it will have no effect unless you are using the zoom wheel functionality.
If you believe anything else you are wrong.
Kraize92 said:
Then I must be crazy. Since all I have to do is touch the button and a action happens. But my pressure threshold is very high.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. What do you mean "my pressure threshold is very high"? Are you talking about the registry settings?
2. I thought you didnt have a Touch Pro or Diamond?
I said I didn't own one. Doesn't mean I don't have one in hand right now I have family members and friends that work for HTC america and AT&T.
Yeah. Registry settings/Advance Config for diamond
Kraize92 said:
I said I didn't own one. Doesn't mean I don't have one in hand right now I have family members and friends that work for HTC america and AT&T.
Yeah. Registry settings/Advance Config for diamond
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. Ok.
Anyway, so you're saying that device you have in your hand right now has no tactile feedback on the front face buttons?
If have insiders at HTC why did you ask for donations so you could get a Touch Pro in the other thread?
Syphon Filter said:
Yes. Ok.
Anyway, so you're saying that device you have in your hand right now has no tactile feedback on the front face buttons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EDIT: Okay. Maybe I'm mistaken. It's only the d-pad that's pressure sensitive. The buttons are tactile even though they feel as if they are pressure sensitive because I don't push into it like I did with the front face buttons on my kaiser.
ah, you've seen the light. The button DOES push in but the panel is one solid "sheet" that covers all the buttons.
The "wheel" is the only touch sensitive bit. The 5 navigation functions of the d-pad (up down left right select) are all tactile buttons that work off little switches.
Syphon Filter said:
ah, you've seen the light. The button DOES push in but the panel is one solid "sheet" that covers all the buttons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually. I should show you the light I'm right.
[Link]
Click number 3 and read this caption: "Swipe your finger across the screen to scroll through contracts, zoom, and pan web pages, browse your music library, and more, or press the touch-sensitive buttons to navigate and control your phone."
So concluding to that original fact that I was indeed right
Something along these lines may have already been created, but I havent been able to find it. Shell software, and touch flo is all very good for using our phones without a stylus, but we all know that at some point we are going to have to use a piece of wm software, and out the stylus comes.
What I am proposing is a virtual mouse cursor. I came across Innovisoft Virtuamouse, which is controled by the d-pad, but why not have a cursor about 50*50 pixels, which can be moved by finger.
In my paint mockup picture, the red circle would be where you touch to drag the cursor, and the tip is the active point where the stylus would tap. It would be moved by dragging, and a stylus tap would be signified by removing and replacing the finger within 200ms, like a laptop touchpad.
This cursor would probably be turned on and off by a hardware button.
Unfortunately I am not a developer, so this would have to be a project for someone else, but I'm sure people would be willing to contribute.
Since the Diamond having multi-touch seems to be comfirmed (link below), I would bet that one of the first things we see from deevelopers is just this idea. Using the touch-sensitive part of the area around the action button as a trackpad and clicking with a button press.
Diamond multi-touch vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Owgcos_KY&feature=related
Seems like a good idea, but I do have to question this a bit. You want to use a touch controlled mouse to tap a button? It seems like a bit more work to do. Also, your picture is a smartphone....
The idea is to use the mouse to press the odd, fiddely button, not for constant use.
As for that being a smartphone screen, that was an overlook on my part - I just grabbed the first screen capture off google images.
I think it would be useful for web browsing.
Surur
This guy made it on a nokia...
http://30dbs.blogspot.com/2009/03/experimental-multi-touch-on-nokia-5800.html
i dont think this is real multitouch- just seems to remember the first pressed location and notices when pressure is gone
its not really multitouch.
i worked on a simular project (not a game, just tried to do something like virtual multitouch)
and its just like that.
example:
you press on the left and on the right side of our screen, wm thinks you were pressing just in the middle of both sides.
like this (X is your finger, O is the position where windows mobil thinks where your finger really is)
X-----O-----X
or
X----------
-----O-----
----------X
so i think this guy just made "invisible buttons" which you click when you press und 2 of his buttons at the same time.
of course this is just speculation because i cant test it, but that would be the easiest way.
Yep I think it's how it works... But it's not a dumb idea at all, and could be used in the dev of apps
freaksey said:
you press und the left and on the right side of our screen, wm thinks you were pressing just in the middle of both sides.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you.
This "trick" can simulate a multitouch but only with single clicks. I'm afraid that you can't simulate gestures such as the "iPhone-like" zoom.
Marshall
lpaso said:
Yep I think it's how it works... But it's not a dumb idea at all, and could be used in the dev of apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I realize it isn’t "real" multitouch to, but I also think this could be useful for a lot of cool apps on WM.
I was making some experiments and I noticed that it is really hard, if not impossible, to make it work with 3 simultaneous pressures.
Like freaksey said, pressing in 2 different points of the screen will make the OS think we are pressing in a point in the middle. But introducing a third point will not be detected if the point is in the same line.
Here is what I mean:
X----X----X (3 points)
X---------X (2 points)
X----O----X (What the OS thinks in both situations)
So I'm afraid that we can't make applications like "piano".
Marshall
Marshall07 said:
I was making some experiments and I noticed that it is really hard, if not impossible, to make it work with 3 simultaneous pressures.
Like freaksey said, pressing in 2 different points of the screen will make the OS think we are pressing in a point in the middle. But introducing a third point will not be detected if the point is in the same line.
Here is what I mean:
X----X----X (3 points)
X---------X (2 points)
X----O----X (What the OS thinks in both situations)
So I'm afraid that we can't make applications like "piano".
Marshall
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, not like a piano, but for tiny games (like the nokia guy made) it could be fun
lpaso said:
Indeed, not like a piano, but for tiny games (like the nokia guy made) it could be fun
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course
Marshall
I reckon u could simulate multitouch for zooming. And here is how i suggest to do it (im not a programmer, so someone come use it (Y)!)
When using a transitional touch screen, a user either presses a button and then releases it (taps it), and then taps another, or drags a stylus across the screen. When a user taps, there is a space of a few milliseconds of no input between the taps, so is recognisable.
When a user drags a stylus, the change in location is continuous (i.e. the point of contact moves to an adjacent sensor), so is recognisable.
If a user were to touch 2 points, the point of contact would appear to move straight to another point (not adjacent) immediately. This would then be recognisable as 2 points of contact, rather than just 2 taps.
This would allow 2 fingered gestures, even if the system wouldn't know the exact location of the 2 points of contact.
try this... here can you see where your phone thinks your finger is.
(to go into "singlepoint mode" draw at least 1 point on your screen and then you can change into it)
just copy to phone and run it
I am not a hardware engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel this is more of a software limitation than anything else.
The fact that windows mobile can take two points of pressure and use the middle of the area as the true touch point, tells me that the hardware is understanding both touch points.
I believe the issue lies in Windows for not understanding two inputs at the same time. This is the same case with Windows PC's, as multi-touch is not possible on Vista or XP, but instead is being developed specifically for Window 7. Same thing with Windows Mobile, multi-touch is being developed (on a software level) only with WM 7.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Android powered HTC phone has similar touch screen hardware as most current HTC devices, but a developer was able to (with some changes to the OS) allow for true multi touch recognition.
You are right, viridescent_zeal.
But I already tried what you are saying and if you press 2 point "at the same time" the hardware will immediatly get the point in the middle. It will not move immediatly but it will immediatly result as the point in the middle.
I'm afraid that it is an hardware limitation. If you want to realize the behaviour you are talking about, you have to press the two points with a little delay. This will cause the immediate movement and you can make a software believe you have touched two points in the screen.
Marshall
iservealot said:
I am not a hardware engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel this is more of a software limitation than anything else.
The fact that windows mobile can take two points of pressure and use the middle of the area as the true touch point, tells me that the hardware is understanding both touch points.
I believe the issue lies in Windows for not understanding two inputs at the same time. This is the same case with Windows PC's, as multi-touch is not possible on Vista or XP, but instead is being developed specifically for Window 7. Same thing with Windows Mobile, multi-touch is being developed (on a software level) only with WM 7.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Android powered HTC phone has similar touch screen hardware as most current HTC devices, but a developer was able to (with some changes to the OS) allow for true multi touch recognition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't a software limitation. This is just how resistive digitisers work.
here's two artciles from the last 24 hours showing multitouch in action:
http://www.fuzemobility.com/multitouch-exists-now-without-new-hardware-or-software/
http://www.fuzemobility.com/multitouch-in-action/
it can be implemented for games in a butchered form...it's not real multitouch but virtual key presses can work for games.
Very true. Still, be able to do that is better than nothing- if done right it could simulate multi-touch gestures providing we put 1 finger down first!
Hello guys. I've just released my app's source code as well as a short video at:
http://androidcontroller.googlecode.com/
--necessary improvements list--
on the Android side:
* service discovery so that the client and the server can find each other on the local network (it's very annoying having to manualy enter an IP address in a textfield that's why I change the source code every time and compile with the new ip )
* kalman (or some other kind of) filtering to smooth the sensor output
* improve menus/configuration/interface
* look for a marker and calibrate automaticaly
on the windows side:
* switch model you're rotating somehow (ability to load models via xaml files?)
* interact with the object (I'm already transmitting the touch screen's x/y event)
* smooth the sensor data on the windows side to take the load off the android app
* sounds
* transmit images to display on android or sounds?
I would appreciate VERY much ANY help that anybody could provide. If you are interested in contributing code please contact me and I will add you to the project members list.
Well Done !
congrats
HES A JUBEH IMPOSTER
Just kidding, awesome app btw
wow...this is pretty cool. I would love to help but due to my lack of knowledge in this. Keep up the good work!!
Great work, I'd love to see how this develops.
Starred in google code.
Everybody thanks for the encouraging remarks
re
Génial___$$$$$$$$
Draw custom buttons to the touch screen which send keyboard commands to windows, and implement gamepad support for the sensors? Then this could be used as an input device for a computer.
bjehsus said:
Draw custom buttons to the touch screen which send keyboard commands to windows, and implement gamepad support for the sensors? Then this could be used as an input device for a computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if I do that then the touch screen becomes just another gamepad, and a bad one for that matter since touch screens have no tactile feedback (i.e. the finger is not aware of wether it has pushed the button or not). Tactile feedback could be implemented via vibration or perhaps even audio feedback with sound for button press but both those scenarios are impractical for a gaming situation where buttons are being pressed at a frantic pace.
Besides I wanna do more than just pushing buttons. Something with touching/swiping gestures etc. Transmitting data from the pc to the mobile device, or sounds? ooor.. dunno^^
I need some good ideas on what more one could do with this ^_^
I'd be more than happy to help, unfortunately the most I can do for you is clean up images and menu buttons. If you need any of that done feel free to hit me up.
woah
This is really cool. Are there any real apps available yet?
henrynhl said:
This is really cool. Are there any real apps available yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plx define 'real' apps.
Actually this is a great idea, I'm surprised no one had thought of it yet.
Blender (open source 3d suite) supports NDOF devices nowadays - I'll see about giving this a try when I get a chance, and perhaps contribute some code (and we'd need a linux server as well, which shouldn't be too big of a deal)
Jubei said:
But if I do that then the touch screen becomes just another gamepad, and a bad one for that matter since touch screens have no tactile feedback (i.e. the finger is not aware of wether it has pushed the button or not). Tactile feedback could be implemented via vibration or perhaps even audio feedback with sound for button press but both those scenarios are impractical for a gaming situation where buttons are being pressed at a frantic pace.
Besides I wanna do more than just pushing buttons. Something with touching/swiping gestures etc. Transmitting data from the pc to the mobile device, or sounds? ooor.. dunno^^
I need some good ideas on what more one could do with this ^_^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an idea, heh...use it to control the mouse on a PC.
There are remotes that work using accelerometers and such...by tilting the remote up, it moves the mouse arrow on the screen up, left goes left, etc. Then simply have the screen react to a short tap(which would be a single click), double tap (which would be a double click), and a long press (for right click).
That is certainly something that I would use on a daily basis.
jmhecker said:
I have an idea, heh...use it to control the mouse on a PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your feedback jmhecker! Do you mean like a wiimote? If so then unfortunately that's not possible with the HTC Dream unless the user performs some kind of calibration process first (because the device has no way of knowing where the monitor is). So first some sort of calibration would be necessary, which could be done by placing a marker/qr code on the monitor then pointing the camera OR just pointing the device to the middle of the screen and pressing a button (which is what i"m doing now to calibrate).
Jubei
Jubei said:
Thanks for your feedback jmhecker! Do you mean like a wiimote? If so then unfortunately that's not possible with the HTC Dream unless the user performs some kind of calibration process first (because the device has no way of knowing where the monitor is). So first some sort of calibration would be necessary, which could be done by placing a marker/qr code on the monitor then pointing the camera OR just pointing the device to the middle of the screen and pressing a button (which is what i"m doing now to calibrate).
Jubei
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kind of like that, yes. But, not exactly.
Basically, the phone knows when it is in 'zero' position. IE: lying flat on its back.
Now, I tilt the phone (rotate) to the left a smidge, so it look like / (when looking at it if it were in front of you...what oyu see is the bottom (where the plug is) of the phone. Now, when you tilt it like that, the mouse cursor moves left. Then when you turn it like \, it moves right...tilt the phone forward, it moves down, and tilt it backwards, and it moves up.
Kind of what you have being done already with the video and the plane in it...but, rather than move the plane, move the mouse cursor.
Does that make sense?
This with remote droid...
jmhecker said:
Kind of like that, yes. But, not exactly.
Basically, the phone knows when it is in 'zero' position. IE: lying flat on its back.
Now, I tilt the phone (rotate) to the left a smidge, so it look like / (when looking at it if it were in front of you...what oyu see is the bottom (where the plug is) of the phone. Now, when you tilt it like that, the mouse cursor moves left. Then when you turn it like \, it moves right...tilt the phone forward, it moves down, and tilt it backwards, and it moves up.
Kind of what you have being done already with the video and the plane in it...but, rather than move the plane, move the mouse cursor.
Does that make sense?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could see this working with RemoteDroid, or something of that nature. Make the tilt like a joystick, and the screen with a touch pad and buttons. That would make a killer game controller
jmhecker said:
Kind of what you have being done already with the video and the plane in it...but, rather than move the plane, move the mouse cursor.
Does that make sense?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does yes. But i think it would require a lot of work to be usable because isometric or isotonic (speed of cursor relative to tilt angle) devices are not nearly as usable as mice. So in the end you'd spend so much hours coding just to have another mouse, whereas I think this device can be more.
it has a speaker, a display, vibration, buttons, keyboard, a trackball, sound. It has a lot of potential to be used just as a simple mouse.
I have the classic controller hooked up to my G2 and am trying to use it to play Quake 3. While I've been able to remap all the buttons to get a decent FPS experience, the problem is that Quake, of course, has left/right turn as keyboard buttons by default, so even with the thumbstick left/right options on the CC being programmed to them, they are too slow to really use and make the game borderline impossible to play. There is the mouselook/freelook option, but that doesn't seem to want to work with the thumbstick on the controller--only with the phone itself. The movement and looking up/down works fine, but I need to make the right thumbstick into mouselook if I want to ever play Q3 again, and I don't know how. Do you guys have any ideas?
-Rocky
Did you try raising the sensitivity? If not link me to the controller you have and I'll buy it and see what I can implement into quake3droid.
I guess I should clarify, I meant the "Kwaak3" port specifically (which I installed as per random googled instructions); I haven't tried "quake3droid" itself. But I assume it's a general limitation of anything based off of Quake 3 (unless quake3droid changes it somehow) that being able to turn left and right is either keyboard-based or requires mouselook, and my problem is getting the program to recognize moving the thumbstick around as a mouse (it didn't work as "Joystick" when I enabled that, unless I was seriously confusing things), so if I set turn left/right as the keys associated with left/right on the CC, then it's godawfully slow to turn and mouse sensitivity has no impact. It seemed like less of a problem looking up and down than turning, but that may just be due to the fact that that I was fighting a bot in a mostly horizontal level so it was much less essential to look up/down than to be able to turn quickly to shoot him.