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Court asks Samsung to give samples of Galaxy S2, Tabs, Infuse 4G, Droid charge to Apple
http://androidos.in/2011/05/court-a...laxy-s2-tabs-infuse-4g-droid-charge-to-apple/
http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/05/19/36708.htm
"Because these claims are subject to consumer confusion and "ordinary observer" standards, the products themselves and the packaging in which they are sold are likely to be central to any motion for preliminary injunction" -apple
consumer confusion?? what kind of BS is that?
do you see people confusing a Hyundai as a Mercedes?? (hyundai cars look very similar to Mercedes!)
do you see people confusing sony "move" as nintendo wii? (sony "move" very similar to Wii)
And people wonder why soo Many people hate Apple. Ok lets make a triangular phone so we don't get sued or maybe a octagon?
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To be fair, Apple did copyright designs. So you may not like Apple, but if this were any other company people probably wouldn't care.
this just sounds real greedy of apple
Really?
ok so maybe samsung will have to pay up to everybody who ever made a cell phone, now. seriously. its a money thing.
So probably Samsung sales are going to stop in the US, because of USA-smartass patents. Software patents, seriously?
Though I don't really care.
This is just disgusting, plain and simple............i hate that company to its core (yay pun!)
Apple throwing power around, what a surprise.
Still rocking the Incredible with the XDA Premium App.
So what it's not like Apple is capable of making anything on their own. They're at the mercy of Samsung, LG, ect to make their junk for them. 5 years from now Apple will be a broken company like they were in the 90's.
I know =/ its just frustrating that they're allowed to do this kind of crap, i know corporate law and suing one another go hand in hand, but i mean come on linux and various other company's hold many patents over apple, which they pay to use (and some which they even tried to sue other companies over, even though they didnt even invent the item for which they were suing), but regardless its just stupid that they throw their power around so easily and aren't met with much resistance........sad days
Exador said:
So what it's not like Apple is capable of making anything on their own. They're at the mercy of Samsung, LG, ect to make their junk for them. 5 years from now Apple will be a broken company like they were in the 90's.
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What's saving them is Steve Jobs. He's one of the last people who really knows how to advertise a product, and "make people believe that they need and can't live without his product".
Most of the other companies employ young and inexperienced people, that's why their sales fail.
When Jobs leave Apple, it'll be just like any other company, coming towards customers instead of making customers come towards them.
That's the idea that Jobs found out in 70s, 80s... there's a movie about Jobs, Gates, Wozniak, and Ballmer, I can't remember its name, which clearly shows their success.
O
Blagus said:
What's saving them is Steve Jobs. He's one of the last people who really knows how to advertise a product, and "make people believe that they need and can't live without his product".
Most of the other companies employ young and inexperienced people, that's why their sales fail.
When Jobs leave Apple, it'll be just like any other company, coming towards customers instead of making customers come towards them.
That's the idea that Jobs found out in 70s, 80s... there's a movie about Jobs, Gates, Wozniak, and Ballmer, I can't remember its name, which clearly shows their success.
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"The Pirates of Silicon Valley" right?
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And the judge complies and orders samsung to release them.
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/05/24/appl...devices?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_engadget
"San Jose Judge Lucy Koh is forcing Samsung to hand over new and unreleased mobile devices to its rival, Apple. Apple's lawyers will get a chance to look at these devices as part of its infringement case against Samsung. In this complaint, Apple is accusing Samsung of violating a variety of utility patents, design patents and trade dress registrations for its suite of iOS devices.
The phones and tablets requested by Apple include the Samsung Galaxy S2, Galaxy Tab 8.9, Galaxy Tab 10.1, Infuse 4G and Droid Charge. Apple will be looking closely at the packaging and the TouchWiz UI used by the Korean manufacturer to see how closely it mimics Apple's iPhone, iPad and iPod touch. Specifically, Apple is looking for elements that will confuse people into thinking the Samsung devices are the same as the iPhone.
In response to Apple's complaint, Samsung countersued Apple for patent infringement in Korea, Japan and Germany. Both cases are slowly making their way through the legal system in each of these countries."
this is a huge conflict of interest to me, how can another phone competitor be allowed access to prototype phones with the newest and best secrets/ideas to be released by a fellow phone maker/competitor?
what a joke.
if apple actually took the time to open the iphone to more carriers, maybe make a entire line of iphones like a droid line or whatever, with different carriers, even a prepaid they would be way better suited and have more market share. instead of wasting time on endless litigation and court cases.
anyone who buys apple is a moron.
i want to know, is apple going to hand over a prototype iphone 5 for samsung to "check" for mimicking?
or are we just gonna have to find one near a urinal at a local bar again?
I agree! That is just ridiculous. I don't see how they can do that. Your going to take something that a company puts a lot of R&D into and make them give it to their competition. That should be a crime itself!
Richard1510 said:
I agree! That is just ridiculous. I don't see how they can do that. Your going to take something that a company puts a lot of R&D into and make them give it to their competition. That should be a crime itself!
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i wish more ppl would post on this story.
its the most absurd thing i have ever heard...
To be fair, Apple did copyright the designs and touchwiz and even the original Galaxy S looks a lot like Apple's designs. People wouldn't make a big deal out of this if it wasn't Apple. Also, this topic was made already.
intheb0x said:
i wish more ppl would post on this story.
its the most absurd thing i have ever heard...
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Agreed, this is stupid at face value, although the models they have to hand over are either released or going to be released imminently. However I had a little look around and this article from cnet says that only the Apple legal team will be allowed to see the devices (no-one from Apple or any of their in-house lawyers can). So as long as their legal team aren't crooks and mysteriously start acquiring complementary iWhatevers I'm sure Samsung will be fine
vbetts said:
To be fair, Apple did copyright the designs and touchwiz and even the original Galaxy S looks a lot like Apple's designs. People wouldn't make a big deal out of this if it wasn't Apple. Also, this topic was made already.
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it may look like it, but its not iOs what so ever.
and wheres the thread?
i searched and did not find it.
and i would of posted this if it was any other phone maker.
apple sues everyone and anyone over ANYTHING.
they think they own everything related to smart phones, i run a phone with touchwiz, ive had iphones they are NOT even close to being the same.
just because they share tile looks doesnt mean they "stole" the ugly idea from apple.
apple is a joke, they want every phone maker to not be innovative and make things, they want the iphone to have every new thing that comes to market while every other phone be dirt.
Apple trademarked the design and ui of ios, and touchwiz is very similar to it. It's not that it's Ios(which is clearly isn't), but it's using designs close to Ios such as the app drawer.
Here's the thread too, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1094205
Apple is also a business, give me a business that doesn't sue anyone over anything.
They don't think they own everything, they trademark designs for them to use, and for others who've they given permission to use. They obviously look close enough for a judge to take this case. What's the point of trademarking something if others are going to use a design close enough to it? They trademark to protect their designs. Apple isn't suing HTC, Motorola, or LG. Also, I wasn't saying you wouldn't. I'm only saying you would or other people would because it involves Apple demanding from another company. If it were Samsung, HTC, Motorola, or LG demanding from another company people wouldn't care, or hell even if Apple didn't demand anything from the above mentioned companies.
vbetts said:
Apple trademarked the design and ui of ios, and touchwiz is very similar to it. It's not that it's Ios(which is clearly isn't), but it's using designs close to Ios such as the app drawer.
Here's the thread too, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1094205
Apple is also a business, give me a business that doesn't sue anyone over anything.
They don't think they own everything, they trademark designs for them to use, and for others who've they given permission to use. They obviously look close enough for a judge to take this case. Apple isn't suing HTC, Motorola, or LG.
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thanks for the link.
apple has been sending the lawyers on a frenzy lately, i think they are upset that everyone doesnt have a iphone.
i think they are more "sue" happy then many other companies. Microsoft could be up there with them.
i guess we will see how it fans out, but i think the phone thing should go both ways, apple should have to give up the newest iphone as well./
Any company would do it. That's why companies hire lawyers, to sue and to counter sue and defend. They're protecting their product, it's that simple. Apple doesn't need to give them anything either, that's not how this case works. Samsung doesn't have designs that they've trademarked that Apple is using, plus they're asking for prototypes, not new devices.
vbetts said:
Any company would do it. That's why companies hire lawyers, to sue and to counter sue and defend. They're protecting their product, it's that simple. Apple doesn't need to give them anything either, that's not how this case works. Samsung doesn't have designs that they've trademarked that Apple is using, plus they're asking for prototypes, not new devices.
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Most of the devices they listed are out now.
Its clear apple is trigger happy with the suing finger..
they do not want anyone to compete with them, if they can take aim at anything, then they will.
More so then ANY other company.
They are defending a product which they want to be the only product people buy. samsung is putting a dent into them. if they could sue htc, moto and so on THEY WOULD. they hate the fact that they have competition.
I know that Samsung will triumph over the Apple juggernaut.
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Apple just doesn't have the guts to compete directly with google. The company is desperate for lost market share
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wang1404 said:
Apple just doesn't have the guts to compete directly with google. The company is desperate for lost market share
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App
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+1 they are the biggest iphonies around!
apple
I wouldn't put anything past Apple they are school yard bullies !!
intheb0x said:
Most of the devices they listed are out now.
Its clear apple is trigger happy with the suing finger..
they do not want anyone to compete with them, if they can take aim at anything, then they will.
More so then ANY other company.
They are defending a product which they want to be the only product people buy. samsung is putting a dent into them. if they could sue htc, moto and so on THEY WOULD. they hate the fact that they have competition.
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Any company is, I can easily name a few like Sony(Geohot), movie studios(So much to the point they leak their movies and place trojans in them), and easy to find more. Also, Apple did not ask for finished products, they asked for prototypes. They are defending a product that they trademarked, any company would do it easily. That's why they trademark it. It maybe to shut down competition, but Apple isn't the only one who does that and that's why companies trademark designs, and technologies.
Apple just doesn't have the guts to compete directly with google. The company is desperate for lost market share
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Google doesn't make the phones, so it's hard to compete against them word for word to say.
My problem with a lot of people I've noticed, they're only looking at it from one side. I'm not looking at it as Apple Vs Samsung. I'm looking at a company defending their product. Wouldn't you be mad if someone was using your designs without your permission and getting any type of revenue from it? I like both Apple and Google. I look at both sides of it and not just one. I don't agree with everything Apple has done, but at the same time I don't agree with what Samsung has done. People are acting like Samsung hasn't done anything wrong, when this is not the truth at all. Behold, Moment, I can easily name more that they broke support for. Even if you still have an old 2g and need support for it, you can take it to an Apple store and they'll figure out the problem, and offer a fix, or an upgrade. Hell, for the Moment's issues I had to fight with Sprint just to get a discount on an early upgrade.
I thnk iz just greed do it as samsung released an earlier design look up the dates in wiki i forgot wat phone was it. Comes to mind lg ws before iphones 2007 shaped phone
if there is 5 similarities, samsung will get any punishment from US law
SuperDeform said:
I thnk iz just greed do it as samsung released an earlier design look up the dates in wiki i forgot wat phone was it. Comes to mind lg ws before iphones 2007 shaped phone
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But they didn't trademark the designs at all.
vbetts said:
But they didn't trademark the designs at all.
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Mmmmm that really sux
vbetts said:
Any company is, I can easily name a few like Sony(Geohot), movie studios(So much to the point they leak their movies and place trojans in them), and easy to find more. Also, Apple did not ask for finished products, they asked for prototypes. They are defending a product that they trademarked, any company would do it easily. That's why they trademark it. It maybe to shut down competition, but Apple isn't the only one who does that and that's why companies trademark designs, and technologies.
Google doesn't make the phones, so it's hard to compete against them word for word to say.
My problem with a lot of people I've noticed, they're only looking at it from one side. I'm not looking at it as Apple Vs Samsung. I'm looking at a company defending their product. Wouldn't you be mad if someone was using your designs without your permission and getting any type of revenue from it? I like both Apple and Google. I look at both sides of it and not just one. I don't agree with everything Apple has done, but at the same time I don't agree with what Samsung has done. People are acting like Samsung hasn't done anything wrong, when this is not the truth at all. Behold, Moment, I can easily name more that they broke support for. Even if you still have an old 2g and need support for it, you can take it to an Apple store and they'll figure out the problem, and offer a fix, or an upgrade. Hell, for the Moment's issues I had to fight with Sprint just to get a discount on an early upgrade.
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Agree!
10!
http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-sues-teen-who-sold-steve-wozniak-his-white-iphone-4/97249
Theres the link basically summarizing that apple decides to sue a teenager who sold white iphone 4 conversion kits he ordered from china early, and apple decides to sue his family for over 100k, im not gunna lie apple is starting to piss me of with there suing of samsung "copying" the iPhone and copying android with iOS 5, not to mention they called us copycats with our tablets that are VERY different from theres..
It's apple's time of the month.
+1 to that!!
While I don't agree with Apple suing the Teenager and targeting him first, the parts were also obtained illegally, and he had no permission to sell apples products. His parents also were in on it too, so it was more a family matter than just him. What they're suing him for is basically what he made, that seems pretty fair to me.
Also haters gonna hate. If Apple didn't bring out the ipad, the tablet market would still be tiny and almost non-existent. Same with the smart phone market, and same with the mp3 market. They don't create the markets, but they easily have a hand in shaping them to something bigger.
Read other articles too that explain the situation more.
http://www.cultofmac.com/teen-who-s...d-a-laywer-to-defend-himself-from-apple/97469
It’s a bit hard to parse what to think of all this. On one hand, it seems pretty bogus for Apple to be sending a team of lawyers into a meeting with a teenage kid who can’t afford representation, but on the other hand, it looks like Apple’s not really interested in taking this very far. After all, they’ve already filed motion to dismiss. My guess is they are just trying to make a public wrist-slap of the whole thing, and otherwise, let Fei get on with his life. But should proceedings really have even gotten this far to begin with?
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Like I said, I don't agree with Apple targeting him like that, but the kits weren't his to sell.
vbetts said:
While I don't agree with Apple suing the Teenager and targeting him first, the parts were also obtained illegally, and he had no permission to sell apples products. His parents also were in on it too, so it was more a family matter than just him. What they're suing him for is basically what he made, that seems pretty fair to me.
Also haters gonna hate. If Apple didn't bring out the ipad, the tablet market would still be tiny and almost non-existent. Same with the smart phone market, and same with the mp3 market. They don't create the markets, but they easily have a hand in shaping them to something bigger.
Read other articles too that explain the situation more.
http://www.cultofmac.com/teen-who-s...d-a-laywer-to-defend-himself-from-apple/97469
Like I said, I don't agree with Apple targeting him like that, but the kits weren't his to sell.
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It's extremely refreshing to see someone who isn't completely stupidly blinded by Android fanboyism; someone who realizes that Android wouldn't be where it is now if Apple hadn't started this all.
Not mocking you, I'm serious. I've seen your posts and you seem to be among the few mature people on this forum.
LiquidSolstice said:
It's extremely refreshing to see someone who isn't completely stupidly blinded by Android fanboyism; someone who realizes that Android wouldn't be where it is now if Apple hadn't started this all.
Not mocking you, I'm serious. I've seen your posts and you seem to be among the few mature people on this forum.
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i feel a simple cease and desist letter would have been good enough. i dont consider myself as a fanboy but this. i dont think the need to sue him:
1. he was just trying to pay for school
2. all the clients that bought the kits had to take apart there phones thus voiding there warranty. so if they broke it then apple will charge full price to anyone who needed to get a replacement. more money for Steve.
they are makings him give all his money he made back to apple and shut down the site. if i were apple i would congratulate him and maybe make him a distributor.
Just return the damn parts.
100k for some kid and his family? Ridiculous.
The Tech Game said:
im not gunna lie apple is starting to piss me of
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Starting? Apple has never changed.
synisterwolf said:
i feel a simple cease and desist letter would have been good enough. i dont consider myself as a fanboy but this. i dont think the need to sue him:
1. he was just trying to pay for school
2. all the clients that bought the kits had to take apart there phones thus voiding there warranty. so if they broke it then apple will charge full price to anyone who needed to get a replacement. more money for Steve.
they are makings him give all his money he made back to apple and shut down the site. if i were apple i would congratulate him and maybe make him a distributor.
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1. Doesn't matter, he is still selling an illegal product. That being okay, then it must be okay for me to sell a product that's also illegal to put myself through school! Thinking heroine might fetch me a good amount.
2. That's on the client then, since they decided to buy the kit.
I don't think some of you realize that what he did was illegal. I will say it again, even though I've said it a couple of times. The way Apple went after this kid I'm against, but the kid should not be protected or above the law and should have known what he was getting himself into. Intel does the same thing when people leak pre production cpus. It's one thing if it's just the kid, but it's his kid and his parents and his parents are responsible for him. Even if they weren't in on it, they could have easily just have said no to this but didn't.
vbetts said:
1. Doesn't matter, he is still selling an illegal product. That being okay, then it must be okay for me to sell a product that's also illegal to put myself through school! Thinking heroine might fetch me a good amount.
2. That's on the client then, since they decided to buy the kit.
I don't think some of you realize that what he did was illegal. I will say it again, even though I've said it a couple of times. The way Apple went after this kid I'm against, but the kid should not be protected or above the law and should have known what he was getting himself into. Intel does the same thing when people leak pre production cpus. It's one thing if it's just the kid, but it's his kid and his parents and his parents are responsible for him. Even if they weren't in on it, they could have easily just have said no to this but didn't.
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Hello.
Lam is claimed to have diluted and infringed Apple’s trademark – compromising its relationship with customers by causing confusion over whether there was an official release of the white iPhone 4.
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Wow. See - U.S. "intellectual property" law has become a burden impossible to bear, which is being exported worldwide - like the ACTA crap. Retarded patents being granted by USPTO without any prior review, RIAA, MPAA etc. lobbying their laws thru to force virtually unlimited copyright duration, strip all fair use right from people etc.
This idiocy is harming progress. Who profits? Lawyers? Sure. Jobbers? Definitely. Lawmakers that take money from these lobbyists? You bet. Consumers? Hell no way.
He sold on as conversion kits at up to $295 a piece to those who couldn’t wait any longer for the device
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Wow. White iPhone 4, wheeeeeeeee. I must have it NOW, 111!!!!!!111!!
Let us shot the minor dead since our brainwashed iPhone fans are "confused". Go sue those who buy some Chinese piece of plastic skin worth of $0.50 for $295 and declare them mentally incompetent, first of all taking their voting right away from them.
I like how everyone is just preying on the obvious sensationalist nature of the article.
What he did was wrong, it doesn't matter if he was a minor, a girl, a monkey or Bob Saget, it's still wrong. Get it into your heads, and move the **** on.
LiquidSolstice said:
What he did was wrong, it doesn't matter if he was a minor, a girl, a monkey or Bob Saget, it's still wrong. Get it into your heads, and move the **** on.
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The only thing being wrong here is Apple not realizing they have succeeded in brainwashing people so incredibly that they are willing to fork out $300 for a piece of useless plastic (the "conversion" kit.) - what a missed business opportunity. They could have spared loads of cash selling just the useless plastic instead of the whole phone. Buy a black iPhone and get a white skin for only $300 - wow, what a bargain. I can imagine millions of teenagers convincing their parents that this is definitely a musthave.
LiquidSolstice said:
It's extremely refreshing to see someone who isn't completely stupidly blinded by Android fanboyism; someone who realizes that Android wouldn't be where it is now if Apple hadn't started this all.
Not mocking you, I'm serious. I've seen your posts and you seem to be among the few mature people on this forum.
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Disliking one brand does not automatically make you a fanboy of another rival brand. Your generalisation fails.
Like Kayne West, like what they make, hate what they do.
hungry81 said:
Disliking one brand does not automatically make you a fanboy of another rival brand. Your generalisation fails.
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Obviously you don't know the difference between "disliking" a brand and having irrational hate for it. The majority of people posting in here have no real rational reason for their Apple hate, it's just all about how Android owners are "required by unwritten code of law" to hate all things Apple.
Apple's not perfect, but much of the reasoning I keep seeing for hating them is downright immature and retarded.
LiquidSolstice said:
Obviously you don't know the difference between "disliking" a brand and having irrational hate for it.
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Even irrational hatered of something does not automatically equal fanboisim for a rival brand, although it is equally as pointless as irrational devotion.
I can like several products and dislike others for many reasons without being a fanboy for any one of them.
Irrational devotion and defensiveness for a brand is a sign of fanboisim. Not bothering to research and just purchasing on company marketing or brand loyalty can be a result fanboisim.
LiquidSolstice said:
The majority of people posting in here have no real rational reason for their Apple hate, it's just all about how Android owners are "required by unwritten code of law" to hate all things Apple.
Apple's not perfect, but much of the reasoning I keep seeing for hating them is downright immature and retarded.
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I am glad you can tell people what they think and why they think it. People like and dislike apple for a number of reasons. Conversely many of the reasons I see people telling me I should like apple I consider immature and retarded, and until I see features that appeal to me I shall not consider buying apple products.
hungry81 said:
Even irrational hatered of something does not automatically equal fanboisim for a rival brand, although it is equally as pointless as irrational devotion.
I can like several products and dislike others for many reasons without being a fanboy for any one of them.
Irrational devotion and defensiveness for a brand is a sign of fanboisim. Not bothering to research and just purchasing on company marketing or brand loyalty can be a result fanboisim.
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It does when you supplement said irrational hate with further irrational/generalized/generic points about your preferred brand.
I am glad you can tell people what they think and why they think it. People like and dislike apple for a number of reasons. Conversely many of the reasons I see people telling me I should like apple I consider immature and retarded, and until I see features that appeal to me I shall not consider buying apple products.
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Yes, because I've said somewhere in my post that I hate Apple or that you should like Apple. /s
Are you even reading the thread title? It's something a 10 year-old would say. If it was Google suing a minor, you can be damn sure the title would haven't been phrased the way it is. I'm not telling ANYONE what to think, I'm asking people to think about what they're saying. If you still want to **** on Apple, at least use mature reasoning, that's all I'm saying.It's like watching the console wars (360 vs PS3) and the combatants are all screaming tweens who play Modern Warfare and whose mothers just bought them their consoles
Please don't play stupid. The Android fanboyism is here, and rampant. Each line of the irrational insults and hate that iOS and Apple get on here further confirms to me that there are complete idiots who exist on this forum who don't understand what impact Apple has had on the mobile landscape.
You respect your rivals, you don't hate them. Even if you don't want to be remotely polite about them, the least you can do is ignore what doesn't affect you, especially when you use retarded childish tactics to make your opinion vocal.
I think the biggest issue people see here is that people try to push the idea that because Android gives us choice, it must instantly be better. Where is the logic in that? I have the CHOICE to say **** the law and start shooting people at random, rather than stick with the law that says doing so is not allowed. Exaggerated? Yes. Retains the point? Very much so; Apple's strategy is not to be the mind-controlling Orwellian bull**** that most Android fanboys seem to think it is, they simply try to eliminate the need for choice by making all the elements of the phone and its OS as perfect, functional, and good looking as they can.
That doesn't make them worse, that just makes them different. You don't have to agree with it, but it doesn't make for a poor product, it just makes for a product that doesn't do what you want.
Although the kid shouldn't have sold the conversion kits, that was clearly wrong, there is something else here.
If he was able to sell these kits at $300 a piece, then there was obviously some moron willing to pay that price. Simple supply and demand. They are clinically insane.
Apple is also trying to send out a message here and declare that anyone willing to sell their product illegally will be held accountable. They are just trying to protect their intellectual property. I feel a little bit of sympathy for the kid, but he will know never to do it again!
He found someone in the factory to see him the parts.. I would think the factory should be hit hard for this, which I assume they will be..
I am just curious at what point to they become Apple's property. If apple pre-paid for all the parts than sure it s theirs..If they pay after the parts are made and delivered, than did the kid sell Apple's stuff or just copyright infringement because of the logo?
cjd2404 said:
He found someone in the factory to see him the parts.. I would think the factory should be hit hard for this, which I assume they will be..
I am just curious at what point to they become Apple's property. If apple pre-paid for all the parts than sure it s theirs..If they pay after the parts are made and delivered, than did the kid sell Apple's stuff or just copyright infringement because of the logo?
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From the moment the contract was made from Apple to Foxconn, it was Apples product.
It seems mister Steve Jobs is very scared of Android, as I'm sure your all aware.
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...es-patents-appea/&category=classic&postPage=1
Apple continues to target the major Android handset manufacturers. Unfortunately it seems HTC lost its battle with Steve for now, with Samsung also under fire.
Does Apple really think they can slow down Android enough to keep its precious iPhone on top? Not likely. I don't think showing fear is good for the company.
Apple continues to rely on its brand name's reputation, instead of doing something truely innovative (the iPhone was innovative... WAS. The iPad was innovative as well, but lets just say the Xoom beats the crap out of it). Now the iPhone is small screened and slow (network and CPU wise) compaired to any high-end Android device.
Apple is only buying time. Sooner or later, the iPhone fad will come to an end, much like Facebooks current plight.
Feel free to give your input.
*NOTICE* These are my personal opinion. If you like the iPhone or Apple for that matter, then more power to you. Apple makes good products, expensive as they are. Flaming is not necessary.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
"All Things D is reporting that the two patents in question are 5,946,647 and 6,343,263, the former of which is said to be "fundamental to Android."
Any ideas?
orkillakilla said:
but lets just say the Xoom beats the crap out of it
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Isn't the Xoom some half-finished product, both software and hardware-wise?
Other than that, I fully agree with your post - Apple is afraid. Very afraid. They're not the only ones though, Microsoft is as well. That's why they're both resorting to patent litigation. While at the same time Apple is totally copying Android's notification dropdown. Hypocrisy at it's best.
The ones who are really afraid? The ones who keep talkin' smack about Apple and MS. Otherwise they would sit back and watch it.
MartyLK said:
The ones who are really afraid? The ones who keep talkin' smack about Apple and MS. Otherwise they would sit back and watch it.
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Yes, we're talking out of fear, it's totally not about calling companies out on their crap. Sure. LOL
Totally agree bother! Didn't Microsoft get in trouble for forcing there software into pcs? Someone got paid off for win this last one with HTC. I think its totally against our rights to hold back technology for the gain of one. Plus the iphone is old school. Its time to move on to better pastures Mr jobs! Remember how technology was for apple before the iphone came out or the ipod? Apple sucked the big one! I think there running scared cause android is its competition! to bad,we the people have a right to choose!
droid charge
orkillakilla said:
It seems mister Steve Jobs is very scared of Android, as I'm sure your all aware.
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...es-patents-appea/&category=classic&postPage=1
Apple continues to target the major Android handset manufacturers. Unfortunately it seems HTC lost its battle with Steve for now, with Samsung also under fire.
Does Apple really think they can slow down Android enough to keep its precious iPhone on top? Not likely. I don't think showing fear is good for the company.
Apple continues to rely on its brand name's reputation, instead of doing something truely innovative (the iPhone was innovative... WAS. The iPad was innovative as well, but lets just say the Xoom beats the crap out of it). Now the iPhone is small screened and slow (network and CPU wise) compaired to any high-end Android device.
Apple is only buying time. Sooner or later, the iPhone fad will come to an end, much like Facebooks current plight.
Feel free to give your input.
*NOTICE* These are my personal opinion. If you like the iPhone or Apple for that matter, then more power to you. Apple makes good products, expensive as they are. Flaming is not necessary.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
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hmm another android vs apple thread...hmm.. lost count on the numbers now
jags_the1 said:
hmm another android vs apple thread...hmm.. lost count on the numbers now
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Hmm... another pointless post. Lost count on the number now...
If you don't want to add to the discussion, or don't like the fact that there are many of these threads, simply don't read it.
Has far as the Xoom goes, I've only read good things about it, and that it's at least on the same level as the iPad. I haven't played around on one though, so I can't say for sure.
It seems Microsoft and Apple, being the "old dogs" in the computer/tech/smartphone world, have their tails between their legs, acting like a chihuahua showing it's teeth at a pit bull...
orkillakilla said:
something about dogs
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I don't think its Apple with the problems.. check out some snippets from the link below:
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/07/itc-judge-finds-htc-in-infringement-of.html
ITC judge finds HTC in infringement of two Apple patents
Google's Android mobile operating system is in serious trouble:
Patents appear to be at the core of Android and are likely infringed by all Android devices
I have looked at those patents before and they appear to be very fundamental. They are very likely to be infringed by code that is at the core of Android.
This could in a worst-case scenario result in an import ban against many or even all Android-based HTC products in the U.S. market.
In a slightly less negative scenario, HTC might have to remove certain functionality from its products, and that could result in a significant or even substantial degradation of the quality of those devices.
Since those patents don't appear to relate to HTC's own extensions of Android but to Android itself, they may affect all of the other makers of Android-based devices. Apple could soon be in a strong position to obtain import bans against dozens of device makers.
Apple unlikely to grant a license -- but might make damages claims
Android is also under fire in dozens of federal lawsuits. By my count, there are 49 Android-related infringement suits (federal and ITC). A very prominent one is Oracle's lawsuit against Google, and the judge presiding over that case has raised very serious questions about the possibility of Google's intentional infringement of Java-related intellectual property.
Tone_ said:
I don't think its Apple with the problems.. check out some snippets from the link below:
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/07/itc-judge-finds-htc-in-infringement-of.html
ITC judge finds HTC in infringement of two Apple patents
Google's Android mobile operating system is in serious trouble:
Patents appear to be at the core of Android and are likely infringed by all Android devices
I have looked at those patents before and they appear to be very fundamental. They are very likely to be infringed by code that is at the core of Android.
This could in a worst-case scenario result in an import ban against many or even all Android-based HTC products in the U.S. market.
In a slightly less negative scenario, HTC might have to remove certain functionality from its products, and that could result in a significant or even substantial degradation of the quality of those devices.
Since those patents don't appear to relate to HTC's own extensions of Android but to Android itself, they may affect all of the other makers of Android-based devices. Apple could soon be in a strong position to obtain import bans against dozens of device makers.
Apple unlikely to grant a license -- but might make damages claims
Android is also under fire in dozens of federal lawsuits. By my count, there are 49 Android-related infringement suits (federal and ITC). A very prominent one is Oracle's lawsuit against Google, and the judge presiding over that case has raised very serious questions about the possibility of Google's intentional infringement of Java-related intellectual property.
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As far as HTC goes, they are likely to settle with Apple, paying them god knows how much money, if Apple even accepts an offer like that.
I have read some about the Oracle case, but I haven't really read all about it yet. I'll definitely give that a look.
Also, I would like to thank you for making a productive post that isn't negative, and that actually adds to this discussion.
Well it's not really a surprise here. Every software dev does this kind of thing. They ask patents on certain elements that they know would slow down or make another product less appealing.
Otherwise spending thousands of dollars on patents would be kinda pointless.
And like MS did and does it sues those that so called took there patent without asking or paying. I don't see anything new here. Sure it's again the big companies Apple vs Android but heck those are the 2 biggest players for home usage.
The point of all these lawsuits is:
Try and get money from competition even banning devices
Showcase all features you have but others can't get
Advertise
And for the other company sympathy. Besides ads even if they are bad are always good for sales
And a good lawyer stretches it till it either expires or till they invent something better.
orkillakilla said:
As far as HTC goes, they are likely to settle with Apple, paying them god knows how much money, if Apple even accepts an offer like that.
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HTC bought S3 recently and Apple has been found infringing on S3 patents. This stupid game works both ways. So there may not be a one-way settlement, but instead a cross-licensing deal.
@Tone_: Apple resorting to patent litigation is because it is them with a problem. Android's growth is much faster than iOS's. And Apple doesn't like that.
Also, it begins, the backlash because of this software patent stupidity: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2011/jul/15/app-developers-withdraw-us-patents <- It's app developers for now, but I'm really, really waiting for the day when hardware makers simply pull out of the US market. Let the US companies sue each other into oblivion, while the saner parts of the world flourish in actually moving things forward.
orkillakilla said:
As far as HTC goes, they are likely to settle with Apple, paying them god knows how much money, if Apple even accepts an offer like that.
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HTC bought out the rest of S3 and apple infringed them so who knows, would most likely be other Android manufactures that cop it..
http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/7/4/apple-found-guilty-s3-patent-infringement/
Gusar321 said:
@Tone_: Apple resorting to patent litigation is because it is them with a problem. Android's growth is much faster than iOS's. And Apple doesn't like that.
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They say there is no smoke without fire also a lot of people buying Android probably could not afford or do not want iphones so Apple probably aren't that worried as its a sale they would not have made.
Tone_ said:
They say there is no smoke without fire also a lot of people buying Android probably could not afford or do not want iphones so Apple probably aren't that worried as its a sale they would not have made.
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That's not necessarly true. Before Android, if you wanted a smart phone, you either got a WMP, crapberry, or an iPhone. Most people probably wouldn't want a windows phone. Blackberries were good, but moslty for business people. That leaves iPhone. If Android weren't in the picture, you can bet a lot of people would be getting iPhones.
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orkillakilla said:
That's not necessarly true. Before Android, if you wanted a smart phone, you either got a WMP, crapberry, or an iPhone. Most people probably wouldn't want a windows phone. Blackberries were good, but moslty for business people. That leaves iPhone. If Android weren't in the picture, you can bet a lot of people would be getting iPhones.
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True but I would say wanting rather than getting at the time they were expensive, still are in comparison. All Android sales are not sales lost to Apple as I alluded to earlier.
Apple are probably more bothered about all the taglines the iworshipers love to hear that they can no longer use..
Isn't another selling point of Android the screen size of some devices? I mean alot of people can't type or anything on the iPhones tiny screen
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Jmatch said:
Isn't another selling point of Android the screen size of some devices? I mean alot of people can't type or anything on the iPhones tiny screen
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I remember going to the Apple store when the iPhone came out to try it. I couldn't type with my sausage thumbs. So I was banned to sliders and flippers until the newer 4.3 Android phones. And now Apple winning against HTC... WTF. Go to hell Apple. I'd rather reactivate my VX8300 than buy a iTurd.
I remember when the iPhone first came out. The only smartphones we had were low-quality, low-tech devices with resistive, un-finger friendly LCDs. The best we had was Treos or other stuff. There were no smartphones with all the tech the iPhone employed at that time. When the iPhone came out, it included all that futuristic tech we all dreamed of but could never get. It was like going from vinyl records to CDs. For you young-uns, that was a huge and exciting step.
The iPhone opened up a whole new world. Here in the US, companies were either too scared or too lazy to make an effort to incorporate solid reliability and high-tech into a smartphone. Then comes Apple. They not only made a world record phone, but made it genuinely reliable and usable. Sure...other companies had smartphones. But they didn't have the simplicity and cleanness and reliability or contain all of the high-end hardware the iPhone contained. Apple did for us consumers what the rest of the industry at that time did not want to do: make a fully developed and reliable smartphone that they (Apple engineers) wanted to use. Apple made a phone that they, themselves, wanted. You don't get that anywhere else in industry. Companies only make what their bean counter, lawyers, committees or shareholders want them to make. The other companies are only interested in putting out just barely good-enough products that will sell. Apple basically said to hell with the committees, lawyers, bean counters and made what they wanted to make. *THAT* is why the iPhone became a world-wide phenomenon. When a company makes something you truly want and wish a company would make, it will sell wildly and take over the world.
That is Apple. The company that did us all good and right and now, because other companies are copying Apple's success, and spreading lies and mis-information about Apple, people hate Apple. Apple gave us all what no other company had the stones to give us. And people are hating them for it. People look at all the smartphones we have now and say Apple's stuff is ****. But they never stop...or are too young to realize...that before the iPhone, the only thing we had was nothing like or as good as an iPhone.
MartyLK said:
I remember when the iPhone first came out. The only smartphones we had were low-quality, low-tech devices with resistive, un-finger friendly LCDs. The best we had was Treos or other stuff. There were no smartphones with all the tech the iPhone employed at that time. When the iPhone came out, it included all that futuristic tech we all dreamed of but could never get. It was like going from vinyl records to CDs. For you young-uns, that was a huge and exciting step.
The iPhone opened up a whole new world. Here in the US, companies were either too scared or too lazy to make an effort to incorporate solid reliability and high-tech into a smartphone. Then comes Apple. They not only made a world record phone, but made it genuinely reliable and usable. Sure...other companies had smartphones. But they didn't have the simplicity and cleanness and reliability or contain all of the high-end hardware the iPhone contained. Apple did for us consumers what the rest of the industry at that time did not want to do: make a fully developed and reliable smartphone that they (Apple engineers) wanted to use. Apple made a phone that they, themselves, wanted. You don't get that anywhere else in industry. Companies only make what their bean counter, lawyers, committees or shareholders want them to make. The other companies are only interested in putting out just barely good-enough products that will sell. Apple basically said to hell with the committees, lawyers, bean counters and made what they wanted to make. *THAT* is why the iPhone became a world-wide phenomenon. When a company makes something you truly want and wish a company would make, it will sell wildly and take over the world.
That is Apple. The company that did us all good and right and now, because other companies are copying Apple's success, and spreading lies and mis-information about Apple, people hate Apple. Apple gave us all what no other company had the stones to give us. And people are hating them for it. People look at all the smartphones we have now and say Apple's stuff is ****. But they never stop...or are too young to realize...that before the iPhone, the only thing we had was nothing like or as good as an iPhone.
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Yes, Apple opened the doors to the modern smartphone, but if it wasn't them, someone else would have.
As for Apple as a company, the ONLY thing they did right was the iPhone/pod/pad. Their computers were crappy as hell (WERE). They have done better with computers recently, though not for the price in my opinion. I don't necessarily hate apple, I just think most if their products are way too expensive for my taste (mainly their computers).
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Well, sadly, in another thread regarding the shipment delays I made the poor mistake of defending Apple and claiming the shipments being held by the ITC was likely a routine screening and not being held up because of Apple.
Turns out, I was wrong. Apple has filed a formal grievance with the US ITC today saying that HTC hasn't actually resolved the software issues and should meet as an emergency and re-enact the ban blocking imports of HTC phones.
http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=10560
This is just more over-aggressive bull**** lawsuits for no reason. HTC is in no position to even directly compete against Apple in the market, and ultimately is doing some of the most unique software and hardware design in the industry.
At what point does this whole mobile lawsuit nonsense come to a boiling point?
Also, as a point of full disclosure, and because I don't really want to ***** about Apple being the worst company on earth, I do own use and love my iPad, Macbook Air, and iMac. I do own an iPhone 4S but as of recently it sits off in a drawer while I use my HOX.
This thread was not started with the intention of people piling in to say how Apple is terrible, or builds ****ty products, but rather have a conversation about the challenges of the mobile industry moving forward. As each company tries to innovate and release compelling products the likelihood of overlapping features and functionality is inevitable. How does the industry encourage innovate without trampling intellectual property rights? (or in other words, **** Software Patents)
Apple is just pissed the one x is better than the iPhone
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This is so ridiculous...
What gets me is how many of these patent disputes are actually FRAND (fair use) issues.
I'm waiting for some judge to put down his iPhone and see things clearly. Patent law is out of control and companies are only using it to maintain a monopoly or remain profitable to their stockholders when their product is actually no longer inovative and has lost market share (see also TiVo)
Apple sees a threat in Android a threat that will screw the company I hate apple but now its the devil to me .
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But this is bs! Why would they do that, apple needs competition, its basic business 101. Does apple think since I can't get a htc one phone imma get me some ios?? Hell no and im sure like me, that's just gonna piss others off and make it a point NOT to buy any apple products.
Maybe a boycott of apple is in order.
Man anyone see the original apple commercial for the first imac from the 70's or whatever? Oh the irony
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They should start focusing on a new iOS or putting something extraordinary in the iPhone 5 instead of law suites. Hop off android. Power users choose android and the rest use iOS their lawsuits won't convert anybody. They're always suing somebody haha. Samsung, HTC, might as well sue Google and the rest of the world.
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This has little to do with rightfully protecting intellectual property, and everything to do with patent trolling and using the law to attack competitors.
Android has gobbled up market share due to the fact that manufacturer are willing to give people variety and choices. Meanwhile, Apple is trying to lock everyone into one device form factor.
This also more represents Apple's failure to innovate, rather than the opposite. The iPhone has hardly changed its looks after 5 iterations. Aside from different backing material, it has looked almost exactly the same. And few internal hardware innovations as well. Aside from moving to a better screen, and a better camera, the hardware has only had incremental improvements (CPU and memory) over its entire lifespan.
The one form factor business model has benefited them in many ways, but we've come to a point where people now want bigger screens on their smartphones. Apple has simply run out of new ideas in the present form factor. Their biggest recent innovation. . . Siri (chuckle). They are stuck and they know it. If they move to a larger iPhone (and also a smaller iPad, or "iPad Mini" as its rumored) they begin to experience some of the OS fragmentation that they have criticized Android for so many times in the past.
I don't mean to complain about Apple so much, or sound like a hater. They make some nice devices, and have contributed some nice interface design to the smartphone world (earlier in the iPhones history). But its clear that they have stopped innovating. Instead of coming up with new ideas, they have chosen to use petty methods of attacking their competitors.
freakboy13 said:
Man anyone see the original apple commercial for the first imac from the 70's or whatever? Oh the irony
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It was the first Mac (or Macintosh back then) not iMac and the year was 1984. It played during the Superbowl. The irony is that 1984 (spelled out) is a book by George Orwell which was published in 1949 that dealt with a society under total government control. Apple's claim during the Macintosh commercial was that they were going to show the world how 1984 (the year) was not going to be like 1984 (the book). Apple has become the antithesis of what it proclaimed back in 1984.
I really tend to agree. While no one can argue that iOS and the iPhone were amazing innovations, and helped spur the mobile industry as it stands now, iOS has really stagnated on innovate.
There haven't been amazing new features / innovations to the platform in awhile and it seems Apple cares more about others not doing what they have done in the past then focus on what they can do in the future.
I think everyday there are more examples of software design that should be open and licensed rather than closed IP. Things like "pull to refresh" and "pinch to zoom" are functionalities that exist in natural user interface and simple should be able to freely licensed to all software developers.
If Apple approached HTC and simply said pay $X dollars per device to have open cross licensing with Apple's software licenses this whole bull**** could be put to bed in a legal manor.
I just feel like software patents are going to be increasingly difficult to develop and protect and that these major players in the market need to understand there will be functionality overlaps. As such I want to see this bull**** end and cross-licensing begin.
fungflex said:
If Apple approached HTC and simply said pay $X dollars per device to have open cross licensing with Apple's software licenses this whole bull**** could be put to bed in a legal manor.
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That is rational. Apple has no interest in negotiating nor being rational. They are the highest valued company in the world. They have no intention of licensing IP. They have so much cash that they don't know what to do with it and there is no sign of their revenue stream stopping any time soon, so they don't need the money. This is just a pissing match at this point. Apple's intention is total "Thermo-Nuclear-War" annihilation of Android. Things might start to get a bit different now that Steve Jobs is not around...but perhaps it is too soon. Not that I agree with Apple.
I just think patent reform is needed. Competition is good though. In some ways I think Apple has helped HTC. Now HTC has notoriety. Everyone I've recently showed my One X to asks to hold it, and then while holding it they are wowed and act as if they are handling a rare illegal piece of contraband. This HTC One X is now notorious. So even though sales were stopped because of customs I think more people now know what HTC is and that it represents a credible threat to Apple. People will want what they are told that they can't have....human nature.
This is why i got away from apple products not going to support their lawsuits... im tired of hearing this stuff but of course its not going to stop...
Instead of innovating they use wide spread patents to squash competition.
It's not just a problem in the phone industry, patents are way too wide sweeping, long lasting, and powerful these days. Try and remember patent law was created to promote innovation not crush it.
galfert said:
Everyone I've recently showed my One X to asks to hold it, and then while holding it they are wowed and act as if they are handling a rare illegal piece of contraband.
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I have experienced this too and with my old Samsung Captivate as well. When people see an Android phone they are wowed by it and by the ability to make it what YOU want. When they see an iPhone, it's just another iPhone, there's nothing special anymore, nothing "magical." I used to get excited over iPhone announcements back in the days where I was a poor high school student yearning to have a smartphone. Now, howveer, I find the annoucements boring because really, there's nothing to be excited about anymore.
Apple where we invented the lawsuit
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fungflex said:
If Apple approached HTC and simply said pay $X dollars per device to have open cross licensing with Apple's software licenses this whole bull**** could be put to bed in a legal manor.
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galfert said:
Apple has no interest in negotiating nor being rational. They are the highest valued company in the world. They have no intention of licensing IP.
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Well, it looks like that's exactly what happened, and HTC refused to license.
"Apple reportedly asked for $5 - $15 per device to settle Android patent dispute" (I'm not 'allowed' to post my source link, but if you google that headline, you should find it on the Dow Jones website. Article is dated May 5th, 2012.)
So HTC just went on their merry way and knowingly infringed on the patent. If they didn't see this coming, then they're idiots.
That said, I LOVE this damn phone! I see why Apple might have a little envy smeared on their faces!
Does anybody know what exactly it is they are claiming infringes on their patent still? I thought this was resolved with the adding of HTC Linkify Dispatcher. I've used the AT&T ROMS and I've seen how annoying this has made the UI compared to the Rogers version, what more do they want?
kilo89 said:
Does anybody know what exactly it is they are claiming infringes on their patent still? I thought this was resolved with the adding of HTC Linkify Dispatcher. I've used the AT&T ROMS and I've seen how annoying this has made the UI compared to the Rogers version, what more do they want?
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Money plain and simple friggin monopoly
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galfert said:
It was the first Mac (or Macintosh back then) not iMac and the year was 1984. It played during the Superbowl. The irony is that 1984 (spelled out) is a book by George Orwell which was published in 1949 that dealt with a society under total government control. Apple's claim during the Macintosh commercial was that they were going to show the world how 1984 (the year) was not going to be like 1984 (the book). Apple has become the antithesis of what it proclaimed back in 1984.
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Thanks for clearing up my ignorance, that's totally what I meant to say, (reference to the book by G.O.), and the point I was trying to make, lol.
I don't totally hate on apple my MacBook pro still best computer I have, and its almost 4yo, and still kicks ass media wise. But this lawsuit thing is just out of control.
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Boycott Crapple and encourage others to do the same. Enough already.
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