Database Info

Keyboard evolution

Guys it's just me or it is a fact that the progress of windows mobile is really slow?
I mean there are several versions of windows mobile, 6.0 got our before 5.0 was even running well enough (not to mention several bugs in 5.0 that were barely fixed) and I wonder: wouldn't it be better to stick to an OS version for a longer period of time and make it run really good?
I won't go into a debate mac vs pc or anything of this kind, but isn't the standard windows mobile interface a bit boring? I like the iPhone for the innovative interface and design only, or another model I've seen m8 from meizu.
Something should change, not just a fancy gradient in the titlebar and the menubar!!!!!
I have a problem with the keyboards too. The MS sip is the same since 2002 pocket pcs!!! And that is really a lot of time of using the same cra.ppy system, and forgive me for overreacting but I think entering texts is a main concern, we all use these devices mainly as communicators or for various information storage that needs to be edited, moved from a location to another an all these actions require user input...
I know there are lots of experienced users on this forum, so this is a call to all of them , I need their suggestions in what would be the best choice for a text-input software for Pocket PCs?
I was using the SPB keyboard for about 2 years now I really like it, it's just that it covers all my text (yeah, I know it's fulscreen ), and I would like to try some similar variants: concern #1 : it must have big keys or it's useless to me.
Thanks for your time, everyone!

I'm using ZTA4 SIP, it's mainly for Chinese input but also can be used for English typing.
Cheers,
Vibranze

thanks, any link for that?

xda-addict said:
Guys it's just me or it is a fact that the progress of windows mobile is really slow?
I mean there are several versions of windows mobile, 6.0 got our before 5.0 was even running well enough (not to mention several bugs in 5.0 that were barely fixed) and I wonder: wouldn't it be better to stick to an OS version for a longer period of time and make it run really good?
I won't go into a debate mac vs pc or anything of this kind, but isn't the standard windows mobile interface a bit boring? I like the iPhone for the innovative interface and design only, or another model I've seen m8 from meizu.
Something should change, not just a fancy gradient in the titlebar and the menubar!!!!!
I have a problem with the keyboards too. The MS sip is the same since 2002 pocket pcs!!! And that is really a lot of time of using the same cra.ppy system, and forgive me for overreacting but I think entering texts is a main concern, we all use these devices mainly as communicators or for various information storage that needs to be edited, moved from a location to another an all these actions require user input...
I know there are lots of experienced users on this forum, so this is a call to all of them , I need their suggestions in what would be the best choice for a text-input software for Pocket PCs?
I was using the SPB keyboard for about 2 years now I really like it, it's just that it covers all my text (yeah, I know it's fulscreen ), and I would like to try some similar variants: concern #1 : it must have big keys or it's useless to me.
Thanks for your time, everyone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try the skinnable Resco keyboard, several options available. See screenshot and download link below.

xda-addict said:
thanks, any link for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I attached here, try it yourself
Instead of choosing the unknown chinese character, you can choose Abc so you will be able to type in English.
Cheers,
Vibranze

hotdog53 said:
Try the skinnable Resco keyboard, several options available. See screenshot and download link below.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something happened to screen shot. Here's another one.

hotdog53 said:
Something happened to screen shot. Here's another one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the post!
Unfortunatelly Resco has too small keys, almost like the default SIP, I can't use it
vibranze I'm gonna try it asap!

vibranze said:
I attached here, try it yourself
Instead of choosing the unknown chinese character, you can choose Abc so you will be able to type in English.
Cheers,
Vibranze
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vibranze thanks for the efforts but the ZTA4 SIP DOESN'T WORK ON MY DEVICE.
I have attached a screenshot, it loads, but it is unusable. Still it seems to have pretty small keys, but I'm not sure as it doesn't load properly, what could I do?

wow Guys, check this out:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=322441
now this is a keyboard!

xda-addict said:
Vibranze thanks for the efforts but the ZTA4 SIP DOESN'T WORK ON MY DEVICE.
I have attached a screenshot, it loads, but it is unusable. Still it seems to have pretty small keys, but I'm not sure as it doesn't load properly, what could I do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Attached is the screenshot taken from my device. Altough it's a bit small but if you use stylus it's far far better than the normal keyboard, and some more it's also support keypad typing
Cheers,
Vibranze

Check this out WM7 !!!

http://www.htcclub.net/en/shownews.php?ID=294

Nice show
hope this stuff will be available to kaiser...
pserbanp said:
http://www.htcclub.net/en/shownews.php?ID=294
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Hope so indeed - looks stunning!!!!!

jcespi2005 said:
Nice show
hope this stuff will be available to kaiser...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For shure will be like WM6 was for all WM5 PDAPhones (TyTn,3600...etc)

to bad thats a smartphone OS shown there and not a ppc OS

WM7...
...will have nearly same features that iPhone showed last year...

To me looks to be the next zune device, as you can see one of the screenshots where the mp3 is playing. A copy cat of IPHONE definately but nicer feel of the OS we currently use on the kaiser.

shogunmark said:
to bad thats a smartphone OS shown there and not a ppc OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows Mobile 7 will dramatically change the way we use mobile devices. It will emphasize the use of touch on the device, as well as motion gestures created by using the device. It is, absolutely, Microsoft’s effort to beat back the iPhone, and the iPhone is referenced several times in the document.
Windows Mobile 7 will use touch gestures, similar to how the iPhone does. You will be able to flick through lists, pan, swipe sideway, draw on the screen. A lot of emphasis has been put on making navigation easier and doing away with scrollbars, including a new scroll handle that allows for multiple ways of finding items extremely fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, row 1 column 2 shows a SIP keyboard. I think this is the PPC version.

Well it certainly looks like more then just a skin face lift, looks pretty darn cool. I hope we can use it on our recently new devices, but when they say that gestures will be controlled by a camera looking up through the screen, i dont know if that applies to device hardware we have now?
Id on' really know how the biotouch stuff works right now
edit: ohh they must mean the actual camera on the back/front f your device that would do that sort of recognition I guess. I just remember seeing this youtube video of a microsoft screen witht hat "shock" technology where the guy said the screen had a a camera under it so it was able to follow all your gestures etc.. perhaps nto the same tech we are talkigna bout here I suppose.

It sure looks interesting. One thing though:
It will feature graphical transitions, subtle effects, and other things to make it more interesting to look at.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My fears are that - as with Vista - it's a lot of window dressing with limited (added) functionality. And for all that window dressing, we need more power. More power means more battery power. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'd rather have a dull looking tool than a great looking gadget.
At this moment, the Psion 5MX that I used to own, beats a WM6 device on functionality. Hands down.

Mike Philippens said:
My fears are that - as with Vista - it's a lot of window dressing with limited (added) functionality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just have to say, if you read the tech docs, Vista added a LOT under the hood - it's not just an XP "skin." Truth is, I even see a lot of added functionality in plain view as well.
Club3d said:
To me looks to be the next zune device, as you can see one of the screenshots where the mp3 is playing. A copy cat of IPHONE definately but nicer feel of the OS we currently use on the kaiser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This really doesn't mean anything... just because it looks like a Zune doesn't mean it IS a Zune. As I posted in this thread a month ago (to VERY little fanfare ), MS has an entire department dedicated to giving WM the functionality of a Zune. It's called the "Pink and Purple Project."
The only thing that scares me is that they'll make it SO much like the Zune that I'll lose my Media Player functionality - I remember reading that Zunes have proprietary software and don't use WMP - they're not even "PlaysForSure!" Not sure if that's accurate.
However, can't Media Center convert saved shows to a low quality and sync up with a Zune automatically over WiFi? How sweet would that be for my Tilt!

shogunmark said:
to bad thats a smartphone OS shown there and not a ppc OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought the pictures show touch screen and Smartphone doesn't have touch screen does it? anyway, someone will make that keyboard available sooner than WM7 for sure

How can you work the gestures without a touchscreen? So it's for PPC.
Thanx for sharing the info

shogunmark said:
to bad thats a smartphone OS shown there and not a ppc OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you've read anything about Windows Mobile 7 you would know that Microsoft will not have different SKUs for SmartPhone or PocketPCs this time around.
It will be one size fits all. (Probably still in a few different flavors so OEMs can chose one with Office and one without etc, but the general functionality, look and core will be the same)

eltoro said:
How can you work the gestures without a touchscreen? So it's for PPC. Thanx for sharing the info
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I'm an idiot, but I think think this Smartphone vs. PPC argument is moot.
You see, the gestures and touch features (such as dual touch) described in that document can't be done with Smartphones OR PPCs yet. They require the new touch system that the iPhone has (using electricity from your body vs. pressure on the screen), and thus these features (and maybe WM7 entirely) will depend on an entirely new generation of devices.
As such, if WM7 is truly such a huge leap, I doubt we'll see the entire thing released for the Tilt - I'm sure some chefs will extract and add features to WM6, but looks like the Tilt and ANY WM6 devices at this point won't be able to handle that stuff.
(That's not even my $0.02 worth, because there's a distinct possibility that I have no idea what I'm talking about...)

I found this, SEXY
http://microsoft.blognewschannel.com/archives/2008/01/06/exclusive-windows-mobile-7-to-focus-on-touch-and-motion-gestures/
Citrap

Seeing as the kaiser has no accelerometer, that feature is useless...
And for all you noobs who are going to say GPS!!!, that is no where in hell as accurate as i needs to be to detect in/out in 2 or 3 inches (pulg.)

gabriel31337 said:
...will have nearly same features that iPhone showed last year...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Friday I have the iphone..!! But I will always have my tytn 2 (however HTC scrude us with the drivers) I just dont know how to unlock it yet.

this is old news!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=357183
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=333211
and there are many more!

drokkon said:
I just have to say, if you read the tech docs, Vista added a LOT under the hood - it's not just an XP "skin." Truth is, I even see a lot of added functionality in plain view as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, but most of it is eye-candy and stuff that I don't care about. I want functionality, stuff I can use.

best iphone clone apps

Probably been posted before but I find its nice to get a fresh new post every now and then.
Well I'm impatiently waiting for my new HTC Kaiser as I'm upgrading from an HTC Magician so I'm looking at sprucing it up as soon as I get it. I know how programs get outdated and replaced so often in the WM world and I havn't updated my Magician in a long time. All I had was spb diary & weather, AE Button, cl launch, pocket agenda on my Magician and it did the trick but nowadays it seems so rudementry especially compared to my girlfriends new iphone lol...
I'm not looking to make an exact clone of the iphone, but to steal some of its more useful features such as kinetic scrolling and finger swipes and gestures to make my phone more appealing and finger friendly for day to day use. So far I've found a few very nice efficient and free programs such as icontact and slide2unlock, and some others you have to pay for like SPB Mobile Shell 3 and Vito Winterface, as well as Opera and Skyfire browsers.
Are there any other good programs along these lines? What would you guys suggest? Such as media players and such, as well as game emulators (Big reason why I bought the Kaiser, hope it doesn't let me down!). I can't wait for my Kaiser to finally come in so I can mod the crap out of it. I'd like to remove most traces of the ugly default windows mobile look without bogging my Kaiser down too much.
Thanks!

I cant imagine why an HTC/WM owner should want his/her device look like iphoney...
But in case you want to, have a look on developing & hacking section there are plenty of them

orb3000 said:
I cant imagine why an HTC/WM owner should want his/her device look like iphoney...
But in case you want to, have a look on developing & hacking section there are plenty of them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No not to just look like one, mainly to add its finger friendly interface, the iphones gesture based system is the way mobile touchscreen phones should be as far as I'm concerned, very intuitive, but without the iphones limitations, as for looks I would make it look quite different than an iphone as most WM programs are re-skinnable and very modable.
The problem is knowing WM I'll need a nice set of programs to have a fully touch friendly phone, as in phone/texting, contacts, pim, launchers, media, browsers, today plugins, office. So I'm just looking for the best ones atm, I love icontact for one and spb mobile shell 3 looks like it covers most of the others.

RedruM said:
No not to just look like one, mainly to add its finger friendly interface, the iphones gesture based system is the way mobile touchscreen phones should be as far as I'm concerned, very intuitive, but without the iphones limitations, as for looks I would make it look quite different than an iphone as most WM programs are re-skinnable and very modable.
The problem is knowing WM I'll need a nice set of programs to have a fully touch friendly phone, as in phone/texting, contacts, pim, launchers, media, browsers, today plugins, office. So I'm just looking for the best ones atm, I love icontact for one and spb mobile shell 3 looks like it covers most of the others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok
Now I understand
Have a look on the section I told you and if you need any special app I can help you to find it
I´m agree with you
WM for itself is not very good, but with several apps you can have a great device!

[UPDATED 25.12.10] WinMo: What do you do with it?

We love our WinMo, We hate our WinMo, We like our WinMo, We tweak our WinMo.. The story goes on. But ever thought to share it with rest of the world?
Here is a chance!
Tell us, what do you do with YOUR WinMo?
This thread will bring out some common 'cool', 'professional', 'productive' or 'fun' stuffs a WinMo can do..
It will help us discover some cool hints and tips other might be using to explore the maximum out of WinMo, in the times when some of the members in our forums have gone to an extent of calling 'WinMo - a dead OS'
Please comment along with your vote, as this will allow more 'sharing'!
For Mods: I have created this poll here and not in General, only because I thought, this will give an idea to Developers about the kind of apps/softwares, that are in demand and are being used. If you feel like it's in wrong place (I am sorry!), please feel free to move it to correct forum.

the thing i like about windows mobile is that i can use it without google watching my every move. i really like mymobiler i use it every day.

Flash it as soon as a new Build comes out or I will cook one

josefcrist said:
the thing i like about windows mobile is that i can use it without google watching my every move. i really like mymobiler i use it every day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dudeluv said:
Flash it as soon as a new Build comes out or I will cook one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input guys!
I am surprised, only 3 votes after 77 views!!

Long live to WM!!
The last 100% FREEDOM OS in the history!!!!!

orb3000 said:
The last 100% FREEDOM OS in the history!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Freedom OS - that's the word!

come on guys!!
200 views, only 7 votes... we can be more happier

dudeluv said:
Flash it as soon as a new Build comes out or I will cook one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do you cook roms regularly?

My P3600 (Trinity) running WM6.1 is:
- routing between carrier's 3G data network and my home network (e.g. gateway)
- PPTP VPN server
- HTTP server (with www root on a CIFS share)
- SNMP agent
- VNC server
- DynDNS client

stepw said:
My P3600 (Trinity) running WM6.1 is:
- routing between carrier's 3G data network and my home network (e.g. gateway)
- PPTP VPN server
- HTTP server (with www root on a CIFS share)
- SNMP agent
- VNC server
- DynDNS client
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's awesome piece of info there!
Do we need any third party software for this?

nice thread! im gonna vote! i think we should create a thread in our own forum aswell on the today screen UI's we use
HTC sense (2.1/2.5)
touchflo (3d/2d)
spb shell 3.5
spb shell 3.5 + theme
wad
throttle launcher
iphonetoday
wm titanium
default wm today
pointui
others (plese specify)
you could creare a thread on this and see what ppl vote for! the reslhlts will be interesting!

good idea!
olyloh6696 said:
nice thread! im gonna vote! i think we should create a thread in our own forum aswell on the today screen UI's we use
HTC sense (2.1/2.5)
touchflo (3d/2d)
spb shell 3.5
spb shell 3.5 + theme
wad
throttle launcher
iphonetoday
wm titanium
default wm today
pointui
others (plese specify)
you could creare a thread on this and see what ppl vote for! the reslhlts will be interesting!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i will do it tonight.. i have one more idea too for that sort of thread thanks for suggestion mate

drupad2drupad said:
i will do it tonight.. i have one more idea too for that sort of thread thanks for suggestion mate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
also forgot to mention the
Toshiba Stripes UI
Orange Home Screen
thanks!

orb3000 said:
The last 100% FREEDOM OS in the history!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, Android.
I still have a old Touch and Wing lying around. Don't use them at all but I loved them back in the day especially the Wing. Remember when it felt cool to use a stylus? Miss the days when I started my first business and used my Wing in the subway to fill out invoices and update inventory on mobile Excel.

Award Tour said:
Um, Android.
I still have a old Touch and Wing lying around. Don't use them at all but I loved them back in the day especially the Wing. Remember when it felt cool to use a stylus? Miss the days when I started my first business and used my Wing in the subway to fill out invoices and update inventory on mobile Excel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am still in the days when I love using stylus from time to time
Although my TG01 lets me touch and use it, I sometimes just like to use stylus and the accuracy is still unbeatable with fingers!

drupad2drupad said:
I am still in the days when I love using stylus from time to time
Although my TG01 lets me touch and use it, I sometimes just like to use stylus and the accuracy is still unbeatable with fingers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
* * *BUMP* * *

I use WinMo to call, browse test develop and handle my agenda, calendar. and messenger.

walalm said:
I use WinMo to call, browse test develop and handle my agenda, calendar. and messenger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what about games and navigation?

awesome thread!
Windows phone can do so much!! :d

drupad2drupad said:
what about games and navigation?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well in games, it is very slow in some cases, and not much free games or free games are not good enought.

[Q] Downgrading to WM6.5

It's just crossing my mind this idea to downgrade from WP7 to WM6.x. Yes, it has been told that this two platforms are completely different thing, on hardware and software base. But, after looking at the HD2 forum that is dedicated to HD2s update from WM6.5 to WP7 the idea just could be right.
Switching from WM6.5 to WP7 made me nostalgic for WM6.5 and it's programs, settings... Well, I guess that, as a lot of people, I haven't asked around about WP7 enough to see how it works and what it gives. But, I do like this phone, and especially 1GHz processor, 5MP camera, touch screen and other things (o yeah the battery is much better) that it comes hard to me to have this mighty thing that is all locked up. It could be that in a year or so, from now, it will be better than WM6.5 but considering all that time needed to get it close to WM6.5 and original idea to create WP7 (to make it easy-to-use and lot less custom) it stands on this OS just like gray cloud.
Just wanted to write this, and if someone shares my opinion I would be most glad to hear about it.
Maybe it will be possible to get to WM6.5...

nope cant be done sorry. just install the mango beta it blows wm6.5 out of the water.

Yes, I do try to think like that, and then I realize that I need SatNav. And, no GPS navigation software can't be installed, for time being, there is no Garmin, IGo, TomTom...
I'll definitely stick to this phone, and Mango I'll update. Hope it'll make my life simpler.

mendoza1 said:
Yes, I do try to think like that, and then I realize that I need SatNav. And, no GPS navigation software can't be installed, for time being, there is no Garmin, IGo, TomTom...
I'll definitely stick to this phone, and Mango I'll update. Hope it'll make my life simpler.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Garmin StreetPilot is now in Marketplace for a hefty $39.99, but unfortunately still does not include fully installed maps. Maps can however be downloaded ahead of time to the phone for the relevant route.
for unlocked device you have Navigon select...

My Arrive came with TeleNav. And the built in Bing stuff does turn by turn (with an upgrade coming in Mango). I don't see GPS apps as being an issue.

Yeap, now the future looks better.

as longer I use WP7 the more I wish a downgrade to WM6.5!!!
Where is my (momentary VERY needed) possibility to use tethering!? How do I synch "get away ALL your music and videos, blahblah..." all my things WITHOUT the scrapy Zune-SW, and (haha!) how I can increase the memory for it!?
****ty menues (just 5 stupid icons -what I there are several, much more options!?!?), it's not possible for the developers to install a dedicated database (so you have to make it "in the cloud") -yeah!!!! It's SO stupid on a MOBILE phone, as there often is the possibility that you're NOT online, or with GPRS or EDGE only -and it is SO funny if you're in a train and all 5 secondy it switsh from G to E to G3 to G to HSDPA. The last ****! :-(
The IE on it often don't work. Hmmm -let's use Opera. Uuuh -damned -I forget: you can't install ANYTHING!!!
OK -exceptional jailbreak, but I never did it before, and I don't want it -but I HAVE to do it, if I want to USE my phone.
I think it's better to reactivate my HD2 -there is ALL functionable, without any problems. And: it contains much data that i need -and there is NO possibilty to migrate SMS (i.e.) to WP7 -VERY poor performance Microsoft!!!!

Groby said:
as longer I use WP7 the more I wish a downgrade to WM6.5!!!
Where is my (momentary VERY needed) possibility to use tethering!? How do I synch "get away ALL your music and videos, blahblah..." all my things WITHOUT the scrapy Zune-SW, and (haha!) how I can increase the memory for it!?
****ty menues (just 5 stupid icons -what I there are several, much more options!?!?), it's not possible for the developers to install a dedicated database (so you have to make it "in the cloud") -yeah!!!! It's SO stupid on a MOBILE phone, as there often is the possibility that you're NOT online, or with GPRS or EDGE only -and it is SO funny if you're in a train and all 5 secondy it switsh from G to E to G3 to G to HSDPA. The last ****! :-(
The IE on it often don't work. Hmmm -let's use Opera. Uuuh -damned -I forget: you can't install ANYTHING!!!
OK -exceptional jailbreak, but I never did it before, and I don't want it -but I HAVE to do it, if I want to USE my phone.
I think it's better to reactivate my HD2 -there is ALL functionable, without any problems. And: it contains much data that i need -and there is NO possibilty to migrate SMS (i.e.) to WP7 -VERY poor performance Microsoft!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow where to start. this is probably the most ignorant post I've read on here thus far and with poor grammar at that. my arrive has had wonderful performance since the day I got it and it has improved even further since I installed the mango beta. the live tiles are awesome makes android and iOS seem like nothing but app launchers, the whole concept of apps is overrated and I can do a lot of things without having to even launch an app. and IE9 runs circes around opera. especially the one on WM.

eric12341 said:
wow where to start. this is probably the most ignorant post I've read on here thus far and with poor grammar at that. my arrive has had wonderful performance since the day I got it and it has improved even further since I installed the mango beta. the live tiles are awesome makes android and iOS seem like nothing but app launchers, the whole concept of apps is overrated and I can do a lot of things without having to even launch an app. and IE9 runs circes around opera. especially the one on WM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... It's not the performance that is question. But, it's functionality. Migrating from WM6.5 to WP7 should, at least I thought, have been compatible, eg. SMS, Connection settings (WiFi, Phone...), Contact (I've had to do it the old fashion way, by typing contacts manual / an then I found out about sync with WLive ).
It feels like I have powerful thing (excellent hardware), but it does non better than Nokia 3310. Just raw speed, for basic things.

Hi eric -I'm not a native speaker (english) -but give us some probes from your netherlands, german and french
But as I can see, you're able to read what I wrote, and thats what matter.
But back to topic: What sense is in a phone that is unusable in much functions DIRECTLY. For everyone -not just for people which have the time, the skills und of course the desire to make an jailbreak (which causes lost of guarantee), rebuild the phone several times, have so read several manuals, howtos and search for betas, previews.
I'd tried the Desire Z (just because of the same why I buy the 7 Pro -it's a type & touch) -and send it bach 2 days later to amazon. It's exactly what you wrote: just app-launchers! I hate apple., because of their "we tell you what to do" -and with WP7 it cames to me. I don't wanna do a jailbreak -but I didn't have an alternative (if I want to USE the phone) :-(
Maybee other people have the possibility and time to try the mango beta -and it seems that I MUST do it, or I have to sell the phone (what will make me very sad -a VERY good piece of hardware!!)

Groby said:
Hi eric -I'm not a native speaker (english) -but give us some probes from your netherlands, german and french
But as I can see, you're able to read what I wrote, and thats what matter.
But back to topic: What sense is in a phone that is unusable in much functions DIRECTLY. For everyone -not just for people which have the time, the skills und of course the desire to make an jailbreak (which causes lost of guarantee), rebuild the phone several times, have so read several manuals, howtos and search for betas, previews.
I'd tried the Desire Z (just because of the same why I buy the 7 Pro -it's a type & touch) -and send it bach 2 days later to amazon. It's exactly what you wrote: just app-launchers! I hate apple., because of their "we tell you what to do" -and with WP7 it cames to me. I don't wanna do a jailbreak -but I didn't have an alternative (if I want to USE the phone) :-(
Maybee other people have the possibility and time to try the mango beta -and it seems that I MUST do it, or I have to sell the phone (what will make me very sad -a VERY good piece of hardware!!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
odd,i didn't have to do any of that when I got my Arrive. just open the box, enter my live ID and I was good to go. wp7 is not an app launcher as almost everything can be done without even having to go into an app. with the mango beta which is easy to install i can identify a song that's playing, a product for the best price,get directions somewhere (even in malls),find something to do in the area, buy movie tickets,search the web and watch html5 videos in HD quality,check my Facebook,chat on Facebook and check in. and many other things. install the mango beta and u'll feel much better about it.

Hold on. The core of any smartphone are applications. Staring with earliest versions of WM, Symbian, iOS, Android, Droid, WP7, they all the same with a final porpoise, and that is an application/s.
Therefore calling other systems "apps launcher" is contradiction. Because doing anything with a WP7 is being done via apps. Home screen is, just as in any other mobile system, a pile of shortcuts with a weather and the clock. The truth is that some systems are doing it, app launching, better than the others.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
With all of its hardware, as WP7 requires to run, this phone, or any WP7, will in the future be something good.

If you've played with WP7 enough, you'll find that the live tiles really preclude you from needing to actually launch the associated apps unnecessarily. Because of this, the commenter was calling the other Mobile OS versions more of an "app launcher" because, in general, you need to launch the app to interact with it. (Google has widgets, but those widgets aren't quite the same.) With WP7, you can glance-and-go (one of the tenants that MS imparted into the Metro design) and only launch apps when there is a required interaction. It really is a different approach, and one that I think works very well.

Please give some comparison for WP7 and other mobile OS (mOS).
As hard as I try, and I do like to play around with WP7, I just can't find anything that makes WP7 better than other mOS.
Eg. When email or SMS arrive, on WP7s homescreen shows a count of these items, and on the other hand, Symbian do just the same. So, where is the difference?
So far, the only thing that is obviously better are things-apps that have something to do with the internet (Windows Live, Email, Internet Explorer, Youtube) or with the 1GHz processor (apps do work better with stronger processor, so by having stronger processor apps work better and it isn't because of WP7).

you sound like you're determined to be underwhelmed by wp7. yes, when you get an SMS, the homescreen tells you that you have one....that's what phones do. What more is there for a phone to do with an sms?
WP7 is highly innovative from a UI standpoint. What you seem to be interested in, however, is the menu-heavy micromanaging style of old school winmo. If you want to be able to micromanage every last little thing about your phone go to a different platform. WP7 does everything it is purported to do, if you are not getting what you wanted, then you didn't do your homework before you dropped god-knows-how-much on a phone. these days, it's not about which platform is better, it's about preference. It's getting to the point where every platform can do all the really important things really well. so how do you want your phone to look? that's what you're buying.

Don't get me wrong, but what you are saying is what I've been saying. That is, WP7 as any other mOS is not new in functionality but it is different in GUI. Other qualities are not available to be seen, since there are no apps which can show it.
For now, WP7, only offers basic features.

I have been wondering the same thing since the 1 st rumors of windows phone 7 but still a no go. Its ironic ms stripped away so many of the things that made wm only to get beat out by the former clone of themselves....android. I love the form the tp2 & wish they wouldve released an hd2 with a keyboard. They shouldve stripped the name windows,hired a special team that managed themes system wide so that u have eye candy without it being resource heavy & hired a marketing team that would make apple & google have nightmares.

pimppoet said:
I have been wondering the same thing since the 1 st rumors of windows phone 7 but still a no go. Its ironic ms stripped away so many of the things that made wm only to get beat out by the former clone of themselves....android. I love the form the tp2 & wish they wouldve released an hd2 with a keyboard. They shouldve stripped the name windows,hired a special team that managed themes system wide so that u have eye candy without it being resource heavy & hired a marketing team that would make apple & google have nightmares.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what they are doing with the mango update that's near release and the beta is already out and I find that im able to do just as much if not more than WM6.5 and android (former TP2 owner and loved it, had an EVO **** for a week and hated it).

Hi,
I followed eric12341's suggestion and have the mango-beta installed (and have buyed a developer account, to make side-loads possible). And some things were better (slow was it not before -hey, it have a 1GHz CPU, it HAVE to be fast ), but there are so many things which waste time. If I want to have a (exact) look of charging, I have to go through some menue-points. As I often in transit by railways, I have to set date several times, and the WM-calendar (and to set the time) is MUCH more effective, as I didnt't have to use the annoying slider-gadgets. Maybe it looks nice, but it waste much time. Before it was just 3 tips, no it's an orgy -the possebility to change the style would be great! And local database for apps -to find the connecting-train while you have no network (and EVERY thing have to be found over network when you want to set start and target of you travel, because of the impossebillity of local databases) is a horror! Before: 10 seconds, now 3 minutes -or longer, as often there is no network in the train. :-(
And unfortunately many very good (sideload)-apps will not longer work after mango. And when I can make a backup from my data, if I want to upgrade memory, or have to change it (because of defectivs, i.e.). And not all of my friend have Zune installed, but they have good music, pdf's or anything else for me. The next thing I was wondering: why I can only set my own ringtons for calling? What'a about SMS, email, and so on?? ^^
Sorry for the bad english -hope it was not to hard to read. :-(

Groby, thanks for the info. I was looking for some info about Mango.
Navigating via online updating is absolutely annoying. It takes for ever to download map, and there are no detailed maps, but only hi-ways and few byways.
I looks like this operating system is way out from it's time, for about good year or so.
If developers could make downgrade to WM 6.x, it would make this phone a dream.