Related
This is a serious question although I appreciate it could be taken as a troll.
Should Microsoft start again with their mobile OS? I know why they have kept compatability with older software but I personally think this is hurting them more than throwing away backwards compatability.
Look at the iPhone - that started from scratch and has grown to prominence without any back catalog of software.
Cheers, Rob.
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
Exchange Server
Hi all
I use an exchange server provider and I find it's features really useful, not just on my mobile, but in MS Outlook 2007, in fact much more so on the PC. Because there are few equivalent services that I can get for the same price that would be compatible with both PC software and a mobile device, I am essentially tied to Microsoft products for the time being. MS have done very well at preventing 3rd party PIM clients accessing the full services of an exchange server.
Google are in the process of offering a full exchange service via Google Sync. If they are successful in this (which they clearly will be) then they are really only one step away from offering their own exchange type server which will be natively compatible with?? Android of course.
I would consider switching from WM to another OS if:
1. That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
OR
2. There were comparable alternatives to a remote MS Exchange server system which could be accessed from the device.
In fact, Windows Mobile 6.5 can't access all the features of an Exchange server (e.g. being able to set specific Follow up reminder dates & times for emails and viewing other users calendars, etc.). So actually, an alternative system doesn't need to beat MS Outlook, it just needs to beat the feature limited WM 6.5 Pocket Outlook.
Sorry for the ramble but I can't see many large companies switching to Android if their employees can't accept a meeting request OTA!
In answer to the original question, yes, MS REALLY should start again with Windows Mobile and this time make sure users are able to access all the features of an MS exchange server OTA.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
From what I've read on the developers Blogs the WM7 framework is entirely different to 6x.. so most of them are concentrating on this.. appararently the performance is at least doubled (this wasn't an MS fanboy). I do assume though that MS will do all they can to be backwards compatible .. the howl that happened on Palm will be nothing as to the reaction should MS completely leave their userbase high & dry. Yes Apple scored well by timing their entry into the market perfectly.. but they risk being trapped in exactly the same way by advances in technology.
I don't think it's game over in any direction just yet.. MS simply dosn't give up and there is absolutely nothing similar in the way Palm ran itself into the ground.. Obviuosly the media is a huge cheerleasder for both Google & Apple - for some reason believing these guys are in some way cool, uncommerical, funloving dudes who are only interested in the love..
look guys, some years passed by, and ONLY thing m$ wants to say to us is:
let's make smartphones, AGAIN.
pda's as mobile comps are DEAD.
f your 6.5 and rich kids.
f android and their feeble ****oozas.
xoen / nothin
Sleuth255 said:
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omg, sleuth is going over to the dark side
btw, which droid model are you looking at?
Personally, i love WM
I agree with Andrew-in-woking. I love the ability to sync my contacts, notes, calender, music, photos, videos, and documents both ways with my computer and my phone. And, the thing I've been telling everyone is that devices supported by a company will work best with other devices supported by the same company. I've been using windows on all of my computers since I can remember, and I will only have the best phone experience if I get a windows powered phone, which would provide the best connectivity with my computer. It doesn't make sense to get an Iphone, unless you have an apple computer, in my eyes. Same with every other device. Get android if you have other devices powered by google os. Same with Samsung, sony, etc. If you start connecting devices across different companies, it will only lead to more problems, reducing the quality of your experience with that device. Those are my 2 cents.
funny how everybody is complain about windows mobile compares to iphone.
y havnt nobody complaining about crackberry to iphone?
not everybody buy a windows mobile phone and use it as a toy (iphone)
i love my Acer neotouch S200 with 1G cpu with custom 6.5 rom 23506, i'm not sure if i still want an android phone. oh, the only reason i want android phone is because of google gps navigator.
I like windows mobile the way it is, when it become's like an iphone, there is no point in using it anymore.
I'm not saying anything can't be improved, just that if it interface's like an iphone, you might as well buy an iphone which is what I suspect most people are talking about when comparing them.
Say goodbye to the usefulness of your high resolution screen's while using a child and finger friendly interface....massive icon's, text, menu's, spend half your time zooming in and out...panning etc.
andrew-in-woking said:
That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
I'm using Microsoft OS for about 15-20 years. First DOS, later Windows, and in the meanwhile also WM.
I don't need to sync anything between PC and phone but I want a "full" OS, you can customize whatever you want, and I love my Win32 API. On the IPhone and Android you don't even have a file explorer without downloading an extra app right? Yes I know "you can get an App for everything." And sure IPhone is comfortable and user friendly. But it's like that because it's a consumer device and being that it's probably better than WM. But actually WM is not only a toy (for people who don't feel comfortable with the more tech stuff) - it's an OS.
I don't really understand all the bad talking about WM recently. I agree using the GUI without a stylus is a pain in the ass but as I can see more and more parts of the OS are being updated with each new 6.5 build. And what's the deal about it.... it's only the f.... GUI!!!
Microsoft won't restart at all. Their OS will go and and on just like their desktop versions did. Remember all the talking back then. OS/2 kills Windows, MAC kills Windows.... IMO nothing of that happened at all.
MS over?
Don't believe the hype Sleuth.
HTC on windows rules.
Good to see you here.
Really appreciated your uc work on my HD.
New rom from Miri, uc'ed all my settings & apps.
Hours of fun.
100,000 apps for the iPhone in it's short life. 18,000 in all of WinMo's existence. 50K on Android already. M$ had a major chance when it buried Palm but it took the iPhone to bring real innovation back. Geezuz.
WinMo market share was cut in half in the last year. M$ is no longer considered a contender in the space dominated by iPhone, RIM, Nokia and now Android.
I too like the common api. But I've seen iPhone apps that blow my socks off. Hopefully, HTC will release a killer platform for android. I need capacitive, rez and battery life.
Moto Droid is the leader here now but it can't touch HTC keyboards. Lots of room for HTC to catch up. But android 2.0 on that very same droid can turn off bt and fire up your wifi profile when you walk into the door based on its continuously updated positional awareness. Weather works the same way, using wunderground school installations from a known database to give you local weather down to the exact temp where you are standing. You can use the camera to scan a bar code in a supermarket and it'll leverage Google's claim to fame and return info/best pricing on the web for the same item.
Meanwhile, m$ can't even make a decent marketplace. They are hobbled by feature drift and don't have a security clue (see chainfire's 2hr hack just to prove the point).
I wish it were otherwise but I've seen this all before...
Phonebook
munrobasher said:
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Rob
You make a good point for mail and tasks but it's not quite the same as dialing directly from your cnmtacts.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
Is this actually an issue of the OS itself? It's just market strategies and modern GUI experiences. With a good kernel (like we have with WM) it's no problem to add such features on top of it (if you just actually do it), but if you have limited kernel functionality but with the "good" GUI things on top it's harder to change the OS underneath it. I have no clue about Android yet but on the IPhone you can't even run background processes. Is Android just as flexible as the Windows kernel architecture? From what I heard I assume it's not, otherwise please proove me wrong.
The problem as you can tell it is more like Microsoft didn't care a lot about WM during the last couple years and especially HTC did what MS didn't, and now they need their time to catch up on their competitors again. But of course I'm also hoping they're doing fine with WM 7. I like the road they are going with 6.5 and if WM 7 is just like the new killer OS we're all waiting for (Windows 7 desktop isn't too bad neither right?) then why do you need your Apple and Google anymore???
FTTB, I'll probably get a Tilt 2 for hardware reasons. The iPhone is too restrictive for my tweaking tastes (although being a part of the jailbreak community would be fun) and no killer hardware for Android exists yet.
m$ needs a wake-up call. The mobile world is passing it by. This time next year (when I need another new gizmo) will be interesting. My predictions go with Android because Google has the information. Gathering it is what they do. Heck, the current navigation app on Android leverages the Google maps data for for actual image based turn by turn instruction. Impressive and always up to date.
I have some specific questions about Android compared to WM or WP7, whatever. I have been a WM user for quite a long time until WM 6.5 bur never had experience with Android.
I have the following questions:
1) Does Android maintain registry like Windows? In other words, will install/uninstall of test software cause the device to become slower over time or unstable and require hard reset and start from clean?
2) Being a systems engineer, I was able to install several tools including network diagnostic ools on WM. Will I be able to do the same with Android? Better or worse?
3) Can I find similar applications for GPS like those I had on WM? In specific, can I use for example, MLS destinator with Android?
4) Generally, which device is more flexible with applications? (I know that WP7 doesn't have any yet but over time, it will) so, based on that concept, will both devices have the asme capability of handling the same applications or maybe one will be more for games applications and the other for business apps?
1) Uninstall removes everything. You can also selectively wipe data associated to individual apps.
2,3) Maybe you should figure out what you need and ask specific questions Android comes with online maps/navigation and offline apps are for sale on the market.
4) As all first-generation Microsoft products, WP7 will flop. In a few years after pouring countless millions from the OS monopoly it'll be usable...
Moved to General.
Completely agree with Volker. I've used both WinMo and Android, and I'm not going back. I personally feel that Android is much more flexible, especially so because of the open architecture. For the most part, the apps you see in the market will work with most of the modern Android phones. The market itself is a great feature and it's a shame that WinMo didn't really have it. It makes searching for apps really easy, rather than having them floating all over the place and really requiring some searching every now and then for what you might want.
I'm sure you can find equivalent apps to the ones you're looking for, but if you could be a little more specific I'm sure people here would be better able to help you.
And I think WP7 has already been declared a flop in many circles. That's the way it is with their mobile platform, they were too little too late with just not enough put into it to outshine either iOS or Android.
Thanks, I have another concern.
I am a heavy Microsoft Office user. I want all my Outlook calendar, contacts, emails to be in Sync with my phone all the time.
Also, I use Word, Excel and Powerpoint documents a lot on the phone. Will I be able to sync between phone and PC and also compose/modify on the phone? In other words can I have MS Office mobile on Android?
If yes, have you used it? is it reliable/user-friendly?
andreasy said:
Thanks, I have another concern.
I am a heavy Microsoft Office user. I want all my Outlook calendar, contacts, emails to be in Sync with my phone all the time.
Also, I use Word, Excel and Powerpoint documents a lot on the phone. Will I be able to sync between phone and PC and also compose/modify on the phone? In other words can I have MS Office mobile on Android?
If yes, have you used it? is it reliable/user-friendly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The default mail program in Froyo will sync mail and contacts with exchange (dun't know 'bout calendar), though I prefer Touchdown from the market (all 3). And OfficeSuite will handle your office needs. Both work fantastic IMHO.
Anyway ,I like WM,may be I have used..
In my attempt to get the most out of my WM powered device (HD2) i could not help realizing that windows mobile is not among the targets of big software names like Yahoo, Skype, Fring, Google and what's more intereseting not even by Microsoft...
Take for exemple Google... it has it's Android... and the thing that it is best at is integrating anything google related into android phones: mail, calendar, contacts, photos, maps... you name it.... and they do this out of the box... and with the best user experience keeping the looks of the web based counterparts...
Yahoo and Skype... they both have IM clients for Android, Iphone, Symbian, Blackberry... but NOT windows mobile... WHY?...
Fring is perfect with anything but WM
Iphone and Android are so new on the market yet everybody supports it asap.
As for Microsoft you would've expected at least to integrate their own apps into windows phones... but they don't... They have the live app wich integrates messenger, contacts and mail... but not in the best way... I would've liked to see something to directly make a space entry from your phone's interface, to directly publish a photo or to send a file to skydrive... to have calendar synced at its full web potential... i know you have the exchange emulation like google but what about alternate calendars...
Bing is another thing... we have to install it your self instead of beeing fully integrated into your windows phone....
So the question is how come WM lost terrain being that it is the oldest on the market and has such a computing power in support of it (I guess we all agree that MS is a giant)?....
WM was designed for business, hence why it has excellent integration with exchange email/calendar/contacts/etc. It also has the PDA version of office built in.
Skype works on WM6.5, there's a thread on it in the HD2 section.
You can set up your yahoo/google/hotmail accounts in seconds on it.
MS were slow (and looking at WP7 they're going backwards) on the mobile market, back when they started the market was for pocket PCs, people wanted a version of their desktop computer which could be carried in their hand, so making the interface similar was what people were after.
They didn't consider the consumer market really and got complacent. WM did the job it was designed for, which most of their customers wanted, so why change?
Then the mobile market took off, other manufacturers such as HTC took advantage of the business design of WM and created user interfaces such as TF3D/Sense. SPB have also created an excellent interface called Mobile Shell 3.5, I recommend installing the trial version and giving it a go.
MS didn't have much in the way of a development team behind WM, there was no perceived need, and it has no "cool" image to go with it, so there's a small market share, hence the lack of "Times Online" type apps for it while the iPhone is supported.
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
xaccers said:
WM was designed for business, hence why it has excellent integration with exchange email/calendar/contacts/etc. It also has the PDA version of office built in.
Skype works on WM6.5, there's a thread on it in the HD2 section.
You can set up your yahoo/google/hotmail accounts in seconds on it.
MS were slow (and looking at WP7 they're going backwards) on the mobile market, back when they started the market was for pocket PCs, people wanted a version of their desktop computer which could be carried in their hand, so making the interface similar was what people were after.
They didn't consider the consumer market really and got complacent. WM did the job it was designed for, which most of their customers wanted, so why change?
Then the mobile market took off, other manufacturers such as HTC took advantage of the business design of WM and created user interfaces such as TF3D/Sense. SPB have also created an excellent interface called Mobile Shell 3.5, I recommend installing the trial version and giving it a go.
MS didn't have much in the way of a development team behind WM, there was no perceived need, and it has no "cool" image to go with it, so there's a small market share, hence the lack of "Times Online" type apps for it while the iPhone is supported.
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly why Microsoft has utterly failed in the mobile space. People DO NOT want their desktop PC in their pocket. They just want a subset of their desktop, plus all the advantages that a mobile device offers. Apps, location awareness, always-on connectivity, etc. Nobody cares if you can edit a spreadsheet on your phone. Why would you want to do this in the first place?
Microsoft has failed to deliver anything "new" to the mobile space, and watched Google and Apple completely dominate the smartphone market. And Windows Phone 7? Another doomed failure from Redmond. It took them 4 years to copy Apple. Even RIM has better developer support than Microsoft...
Speaking of RIM, I think it's safe to say that Windows Mobile as a business platform has been a failure since the monochrome Blackberry days. RIM has been dominating there for quite a while.
So where is it that Windows Mobile fits in? Another me-too iPhone wanna be, or maybe the #2 or #3 business-oriented smart-phone OS? Meh...
xaccers said:
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't! but it was a clear example of not integrating even their own software out of the box...
as for the rest... one of the sides of the question was why the others are not considering WM as a viable platform to deliver their products?... all WM just have to find third party apps or "workarrounds" for them to work...
ccezar2004 said:
one of the sides of the question was why the others are not considering WM as a viable platform to deliver their products?... all WM just have to find third party apps or "workarrounds" for them to work...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the funny part:
Microsoft tried to BRIBE iPhone developers to port their apps for Windows Mobile. The result? Most said "go screw, your platform sucks."
That pretty much sums it up... They can't even get people working on Windows Mobile by paying them. .NET is a decent foundation, but development for a mobile device requires the right tools for the job. Plus, being 4 years behind the curve, it's going to be hard for M$ to get critical mass at this point.
The shocking thing is, they already have a successful product with a healthy developer community: The X-Box. Why they didn't look to that team for inspiration is beyond me...
Honestly, they should just give up. Most former WM people I know switched to Android long ago. I don't see any reviewers or users tripping over themselves to get the next Microsoft phone like they do for the next iPhone, Blackberry, Android, etc. Same goes for Zune and numerous other Microsoft train wrecks.
Windows Phone 7 will turn out to be just as lackluster as 6.5 - which is a good thing, because Android could use a few more users
HamNCheese said:
This is exactly why Microsoft has utterly failed in the mobile space. People DO NOT want their desktop PC in their pocket. They just want a subset of their desktop, plus all the advantages that a mobile device offers. Apps, location awareness, always-on connectivity, etc. Nobody cares if you can edit a spreadsheet on your phone. Why would you want to do this in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I said "wanted" although many, including myself, still do.
It's the reason why WM is being renamed WMC rather than being dropped, because there are so many users out there who require a hand held versatile computer and WM does that job exceptionally well.
White collar business users need something well established which can edit office documents, seamlessly and reliably sync with their email system. They also want something flashy with an impressive screen. WM answers these needs perfectly.
The great unwashed want just the things you mentioned, in a handset which wows their friends and gains them kudos. WM can wow people, but it will never have the "coolness" of an iPhone, nor will android.
Will we see another WM phone? There's talk of a business version of WP7 which may be close but most likely not as good. Perhaps if when WP7 goes the way of Kin they'll sack the whole team and go back to WM.
RIM have a headstart on office phones because they answered a need which MS ignored, as they were too into letting manufacturers decide what the devices should be. Like the iPhone, most people/businesses go with RIM not because it's the most suitable for their needs, but because other people use it. Blackberrys are clunky, unreliable, awkward to use and a PITA to support.
xaccers said:
I said "wanted" although many, including myself, still do.
It's the reason why WM is being renamed WMC rather than being dropped, because there are so many users out there who require a hand held versatile computer and WM does that job exceptionally well.
White collar business users need something well established which can edit office documents, seamlessly and reliably sync with their email system. They also want something flashy with an impressive screen. WM answers these needs perfectly.
The great unwashed want just the things you mentioned, in a handset which wows their friends and gains them kudos. WM can wow people, but it will never have the "coolness" of an iPhone, nor will android.
Will we see another WM phone? There's talk of a business version of WP7 which may be close but most likely not as good. Perhaps if when WP7 goes the way of Kin they'll sack the whole team and go back to WM.
RIM have a headstart on office phones because they answered a need which MS ignored, as they were too into letting manufacturers decide what the devices should be. Like the iPhone, most people/businesses go with RIM not because it's the most suitable for their needs, but because other people use it. Blackberrys are clunky, unreliable, awkward to use and a PITA to support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So let me get this straight... Android, which is out-selling the iPhone at the moment, has failed to "wow" users? And Windows Phone 7 will "wow' who?
If RIM is beating them on Business applications, and the iPhone is killing them on "coolness" - how does Windows Mobile stand a chance?
Frankly, Roz Ho (and that whole team) should be fired. The whole Project Pink / Kin debacle shows exactly how little they understand the mobile market. The acquisition of Danger was one of the worst moves in the long run - all it did was bring pain and suffering to the employees and users.
HamNCheese said:
So let me get this straight... Android, which is out-selling the iPhone at the moment, has failed to "wow" users? And Windows Phone 7 will "wow' who?
If RIM is beating them on Business applications, and the iPhone is killing them on "coolness" - how does Windows Mobile stand a chance?
Frankly, Roz Ho (and that whole team) should be fired. The whole Project Pink / Kin debacle shows exactly how little they understand the mobile market. The acquisition of Danger was one of the worst moves in the long run - all it did was bring pain and suffering to the employees and users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say android didn't "wow" users, I said it won't have the "coolness" of an iPhone. iPhone is more a fashion item than a smartphone for most people, Apple have spent an absolute fortune building that "cool" image of their products. We know they suck, and android/WM is more customisable/better features/functions, but the great unwashed don't care about that, they just want to be able to show they're "cool" (lame) because they have an iPhone. Someone's already posted elsewhere that his aunt assumed his phone wasn't very good because it wasn't an iPhone.
Android, being an OS and in a similar way to WM, isn't the phone. The combination of the OS and the hardware makes a great phone, such as WM6.5 and the HD2, or the android equivalent. Put the OS on a crappy phone and it's not going to wow anyone. Android have been successful because they have the apps/games that non-sheep want, and its available on cheap phones. I hope they continue to eat away at Apple's share of the market, and continue to improve rather than end up taking a backwards step and following Apple/WP7. Of course, history is littered with the remains of better products which just haven't sold enough (betamax, hydropnumatic suspension, HD-DVD, Amy Studt albums).
RIM are only beating WM through their business model. Once a company has started using BES it's pretty much trapped, it doesn't make financial sense to change, they've paid for the hardware and the licences so they might as well keep using them even if there's a more reliable, functional and cheaper alternative.
In companies, in the UK at least, most people responsible for IT expenditure turn to external companies for advice or decide because they've read something in a magazine that their competitor is using.
External IT companies will have their own preferences for what they suggest; profitability, previous experience, acceptability to business.
Take one of the companies I support who've had years of trouble with blackberrys, they've recently changed network because they were fed up with the handset problems. They've got 40 handsets, that's a lot of money invested in something which often doesn't work. They're still having problems, ironically with the senior managers' handsets which isn't going down well. The users with their own WM handsets set up to sync with the exchange server have never had a problem. Until I arrived on the scene they had no idea there were alternatives.
MS have not pushed the abilities of WM, that's been their biggest failing. They've never acted like they take their handheld OSs seriously. Instead they concentrated on the more lucrative desktop and server business.
At the moment all my bile is being saved for Ray Ozzie (especially after finding out he's the asshat behind Lotus Notes) so I can't spare any for Roz (besides, she's kinda cute).
W7 seems to wow no one of any worth. It looks like it was designed by a new parent after buying their kid duplo bricks
I suppose it could be argued that some of us a "wowed" as to how bad it is.
This thread is degenerating into something else... Therefore I'm closing it.
Message to the OP... Chiar trebuie sa intrebi de ce ? Nu e clar ca Iphone si Android domnia marketu' deacum ? Noi, aici la xda, ne tinem cu dintzii de o epava care se scufunda, dar.. asta e...
Hello...
I come from old school Windows Mobile (even on a PDA as PocketPC) and pretty much used one until 2010. I kept waiting for Windows Phone 7 but the wait became too long and I decided to go Android.
I've had 3 different Android phones since 2010 and I am currently on the Samsung Skyrocket, which has been the best and most stable Android Phone I've owned. I also have an ASUS Transformer Prime with keyboard and it is a joy to use. I really do love widgets and use them heavily for my tasks, calendar and other at a glance "life notes." I also use OneNote for Android to keep notes and frequently accessed information.
I am also enjoying the Google ecosystem of Gmail, Calendar, Contacts, Reader and other services.
Despite the Tegra processor in my tablet, I don't play a lot of games and I often find that I wish I could do real work on an Android device or even play my "Good Old Games" from GOG.COM on my mobile devices.
However, I am a Microsoft guy. I have a Windows 7 main PC that serves my media to my XBOX. My laptop currently has Windows 8 release preview installed on it. So far, I am liking the ecosystem between Windows 8 and XBOX.
Which brings me to Windows Phone. I have one for work but I've not really made it mine yet. I like most of what I see. Maps do lack when compared to Google Maps and navigation. There isn't a good Google Reader app I've found yet and the YouTube app is pretty bad. However, a lot of these I could live with because I do like the Windows Phone interface and the common ecosystem it will have with Windows 8 and XBOX. I am also Zune owner (we have 3 in our family) and love the Zune player.
Android, in my opinion, is king as far as useful mobile apps and collaboration. I like file level access, apps like DropBox work seamlessly and I love the options on sharing media. But I am really wanting to move to close to one platform as I can. Kind of jarring to go between platforms.
So, all that said, I wanted to hear from other Windows Phone owners on how they like their devices. A few questions:
Will current devices like Titan II and Lumia 900 be upgradable to Windows Phone 8?
I think I will miss being able to change my own battery. If and when a battery needs to be replaced, what is the process? Can a store do it or do we mail it back in?
I'd love to make a Windows Phone my Zune replacement but being limited to 16 GB kind of stinks and I don't want to always have to stream via ZunePass. I have unlimited data but I don't want to become a "top 5%" user.
Thanks for letting me ramble...looking forward to a good discussion. Even if some of you convince me to stay Android...ha.
I wouldn't get too comfy with Zune as it looks like it will be replaced with X-Box Music, It is very difficult coming from a platform which is so customisable to WP7 which is quite closed, No doubt you are aware of the limitations associated with WP7 so I wont bore you with the details, I initially came from using Symbian to Windows mobile 6.1 then 6.5 and now WP7.5, I did find it difficult at first as I was so used to changing backgrounds and checking my files in File Manager etc but now I must admit I don't really miss any of that and am happy having a phone which does not need any tinkering, I find I use my phone less now and only use it when it counts, Before it was a cure for boredom having lots of things to change and I don't miss flashing ROMs or installing CABs,I am not really a heavy business user but my phone keeps my appointments at hand and syncs with my contacts and calender and makes phone calls believe it or not I love the simplicity that I can update where I am and what I am doing with just a couple of swipes, I use Nokia Maps which I find very adequate and Nokia Drive is superb and Free, The way I look at WP7 is that it is an OS in its infancy which will grow and get stronger.
AndyFZ1S said:
I wouldn't get too comfy with Zune as it looks like it will be replaced with X-Box Music, It is very difficult coming from a platform which is so customisable to WP7 which is quite closed, No doubt you are aware of the limitations associated with WP7 so I wont bore you with the details, I initially came from using Symbian to Windows mobile 6.1 then 6.5 and now WP7.5, I did find it difficult at first as I was so used to changing backgrounds and checking my files in File Manager etc but now I must admit I don't really miss any of that and am happy having a phone which does not need any tinkering, I find I use my phone less now and only use it when it counts, Before it was a cure for boredom having lots of things to change and I don't miss flashing ROMs or installing CABs,I am not really a heavy business user but my phone keeps my appointments at hand and syncs with my contacts and calender and makes phone calls believe it or not I love the simplicity that I can update where I am and what I am doing with just a couple of swipes, I use Nokia Maps which I find very adequate and Nokia Drive is superb and Free, The way I look at WP7 is that it is an OS in its infancy which will grow and get stronger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great reply. I use ZunePass to get the music I want and keep the 10 songs a month. It plays very nicely with my Windows Media Center extender on the XBOX as well.
I am OK with less customization as long as I get USEFUL apps. My most useful apps on Android are a caleder widget, syncing with google tasks, Cozi (has a killer grocery list app), OneNote, Google Reader. I use those the most. There are apps to replace those on Windows Phone and I'll try them out on my work phone. I am sure they may not be AS good but they could prove passable.
I am OK not changing backgrounds and such.
Really, I am more fascinated with Windows 8 tablets than anything else and just kind of want my phone on a like ecosystem. The trick is seeing if I could live with the changes. And the frustrating fact nothing comes higher than 16 GB and can't change battery (Titan II or Lumua 900).
It seems they are all going that way with the non removable batteries, It is a pain but I look at it this way, Most batteries can be charged/discharged up to a 1000 times, Taking into account not many people keep their phones for two years you would have lets say 1000 days usage before any severe battery degradation, That is just a theoretical view of course and I am going on standard rechargeable batteries but it makes me feel a little better about it.
Try and stick with it and do try the replacement Apps, Hopefully it won't be too much of a painful transition for you.
Interesting
I would recomend you look at the recent breakthrough in Titan (1), I came to winphone from 6.5 and now with the recent HSPL breakthrough it is like the good old days again
Mark
Hey Guys,
I am thinking about purchasing a Surface, but not sure which to go with. I would prefer the 64GB one but not sure if I should go RT or Pro.
What are the main differences between the RT and the Pro? Why go Pro and not RT?
Please help me out guys
Its a very blunt difference.
The Surface RT uses an ARM processor. The Surface Pro uses an x86 processor.
As a result of that the Surface RT uses Windows RT which is not the same as Windows 8. Windows RT only runs on ARM processors and will not run software from previous versions of windows. All of your existing windows software will no longer work on the RT. RT can only install software downloaded from microsoft app store OR there is a jailbreak on these very forums allowing you to download software specifically ported for windows RT. Note, it must be specifically ported and there is no way of taking a DVD of software you already own and converting it for windows RT, basically if its not a piece of open source software then there is a 0% chance of getting it on your RT, if it is open source software then *eventually* you might be able to have a port but right now there are hurdles we need to get over first. Windows RT does come preinstalled with microsoft office though (although some macro's and extra features are missing). Internet explorer is the only web browser on it right now but does work in both metro and desktop mode. Someone is working on chromium (googles open source version of google chrome) but that has alot of problems that need solving yet. There is an x86 emulator but its too slow to be used on anything but software from the 90's maybe.
Regular versions of windows (including windows 8) can only run on an x86 processor (such as almost anything made by intel or AMD). The Surface Pro does have this and comes pre installed with Windows 8 Pro accordingly. As a result all existing windows software that you may own will run on the Surface Pro. Downsides are that the battery life is significantly impacted (Toms hardware recorded over 7 hours on the RT but only 5 on the Pro), the weight is increased, fans are needed to cool the intel core i5 chip empowering the Pro so you have noise from them and it costs about twice as much as the RT. The pro also gets a fancy wacom stylus.
If your just web browsing and can live with only using the microsoft store and the limited pool of software available via the jailbreak (read in the relevant threads for more info) then go for the RT as its cheaper.
But if you do need full compatibility with previous windows software you own then RT will just annoy you, you'll have to splash out more cash sadly.
One other thing. The surface RT and the surface Pro are not the only windows tablets on the market. Windows RT tablet choice is a little limited (and out of the bunch then either the Surface RT or the Asus Vivotab RT are the best in my opinion) but there are plenty of full windows 8 tablets. Some of the other full windows 8 tablets use an intel atom processor instead of an intel core i3/i5/i7. The atom processor powered tablets often manage to ditch the fans featured in the core i series devices, boost the battery life to be competitive with ARM/WindowsRT devices, reduce weight inline with ARM tablets and most importantly reduces cost to be more inline with ARM devices. Infact thats the most annoying thing about current Windows RT on ARM devices, there is very little reason to buy them when in the same form factor, cost, weight and battery life you can have a tablet running full Windows 8 on the intel atom which is an x86 chip. Downside to the intel atom compared to the core i3/i5/i7 powered devices is processing power. They are not very powerful. The core i3/i5/i7 could possibly be used for some light 3d gaming but the atom will probably only cope with 2d games and not so much in the way of 3d (although that said, my friend plays minecraft on a previous gen lower clock speed intel atom quite happily and according to all benchmarks the intel atoms are more powerful than my current laptop which also copes with minecraft).
64GB Pro is a good compromise. It allows you to get rid of your tablet and your laptop and go for an all in 1 solution that can later be expanded via SD card to add additional 128 GB
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
Ryno_666 said:
can later be expanded via SD card to add additional 128 GB
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Click to collapse
via microSD not SD. Max size microSD available on the market right now is 64gb not 128.
Just go with the 64GB model Pro. You can always just add a MicroSD card for an extra 64 GB of space for movies, pics, etc..
The RT model will only use the RT software and the Pro will also use any PC software. No brainer for my choice.
Depends on what you need and want. The RT Imo blows the hell out of every other tablet on the market. The Pro is a desktop replacement. I went with the RT because I needed all day battery life, and have a pretty powerful desktop at home for gaming/encoding and most apps are available for the RT that use. Honestly the pro to rt compares are pretty pointless, it's like comparing an ipad with a mac book air (with way worse battery) and talking about the ipad like it's a POS because the air can do more. You also need to look at the Os's, Ipad and Android tablets are basically big phones honestly. Most android apps for tablets are phone apps just scaled to be huge. Windows RT is a watered down full OS which means printing is easy easier, full access to file system like you're used to, and a full office suite where you can actually be productive.
So long story short, do you NEED to run x86 apps on your tablet, is it your only PC, and do you not mind 3-4 hour battery? Then stick with the pro. If you want a kick ass tablet, RT is where it's at IMO.
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2
If you're only going to be doing regular tablet stuff, like browsing, watching videos/movies etc, but still feel like you need a full windows 8 experience, you should check out the Asus Vivotab smart. It uses a dual core Intel atom x86 processor clocked at around 1.8 ghz, had 64 gb storage, nfc, 10.1 inch screen with optional Bluetooth keyboard. Best of all, it only costs $499 (excluding the keyboard) and has 8.5 hours of battery life on regular use and 7 hours on heavy use. I checked out a couple of reviews (engadget and cnet) and both were very positive. The surface pro is geared towards 'prosumers' who create as well as consume and so require the processing power of an i5. But for the money, the vivotab is the best windows 8 tablet...... IN THE WORLD! (Jeremy Clarkson voice)
Sent from my Xperia X10 using xda app-developers app
RT is arguably more secure. Battery life is better. Cheaper. Very close to the full Windows experience compared to other popular tablets. Mail app is crappy. Can get sluggish like a netbook depending on how you use it. All plug-ins and drivers aren't compatible. So you couldn't root your android device with a RT for example or install a MMO you like.
Pro is a much faster full Windows experience with it's i5 and SSD and can do nearly everything your desktop/laptop can do but it's ports and screen size are limited. It has nifty pen input. Scaling issues. Its GPU is weak for games. Do you need a powerful computer that's mobile or a companion device that lasts most of the day? Basically what it comes down to.
vesper007 said:
Best of all, it only costs $499 (excluding the keyboard)
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Thats what I like about the atom powered devices. Here in the UK I can only find the Surface RT on sale for £399.99 without keyboard. I can only find the ASUS VivoTab Smart on sale for £399.99 without keyboard. Hmm. Battery life is similar. OS feels equally responsive on both devices for Microsoft Store apps. Cost the same. Hopefully we'll see RT devices dropping in price soon. Hardware wise they are hardly different from existing android devices which somehow manage to be far cheaper....
Personally I am saving some money aside for the ASUS VivoTab. The 11" model with a wacom stylus, gorilla glass and a transformer style keyboard dock rather than the Smart (smart keyboard is instead just a bluetooth keyboard which clips into a wallet/case for the tablet, case can also double as a stand).
Asus?
Ryno_666 said:
64GB Pro is a good compromise. It allows you to get rid of your tablet and your laptop and go for an all in 1 solution that can later be expanded via SD card to add additional 128 GB
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
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Click to collapse
I purchased an RT device and felt **** blocked by the ARM architecture, the whole OS is right there, but you can't do anything with it. I waited till the Surface Pro released with plans to buy one, but the battery life sucks. I ended up getting a VivoTab T810C and the dock, then upgraded to Windows 8 Pro to join a domain and it has been perfect. Other than the low res screen (720p, would love to have seen a 1080p option) and occasional lag due to lower power CPU than I'm used to (My old daily driver had a quad core i7, 8gb of ddr3 1333, and a SSD, so a real speed demon) I love this thing. The dock gives an extra 10 or so hours of use plus 2 extra USB ports. Using an adapter to get full sized HDMI, it can run an external monitor. I'd love to see a desktop dock with ethernet and two full sized display outputs, but I'm assuming the dock port doesn't have enough bandwidth.
RT!!!
Go RT, it comes with office, which is at least $100 otherwise. Battery life is better, lighter, etc. I have the RT and love it! Plus its way cheaper, and you can use the microsd. Definitely go RT if you don't absolutely NEED any x86 programs. Plus, no viruses! (which you shouldn't get anyway unless you are on lame sites ?
I bought the Pro and took it back for the RT.
The Pro's battery life was too short for me and the tablet was quite warm while using it.
I had Lightroom installed and it ran quite well. Storage was an issue though so I decided to use Lightroom on my desktop instead and use the RT for the other tasks.
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
My main question is whether or not the RT connects to ad-hoc WiFi like from WMWifiRouter or USB tether? That I think is the only thing keeping me from jumping laptop ship and also ditching my TouchPad.
It runs Windows. Pretty much anything you can do in Windows 8 other than run desktop x86 apps (and even that's being worked on!) can be done in RT. This includes not only connecting to ad-hoc networks, but creating them, bridging them, and (I think; haven't tried yet) even Internet Connection Sharing through them, if you connect it to another network (for example, via a USB Ethernet adapter).
GoodDayToDie said:
It runs Windows. Pretty much anything you can do in Windows 8 other than run desktop x86 apps (and even that's being worked on!) can be done in RT. This includes not only connecting to ad-hoc networks, but creating them, bridging them, and (I think; haven't tried yet) even Internet Connection Sharing through them, if you connect it to another network (for example, via a USB Ethernet adapter).
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I was hoping so, but you never know what some will do to lock their stuff down. All of the WInMo phones are/were capable of the same thing yet we had to hack that in.
Thanks for the info, youve pretty much pushed me the last bit, now i need to go play with one to be sure.
Oh, does anyone know if on Office 2013 Outlook still works like 2007/2010 with POP3? Does 2013 come with Outlook? If not, can i somehow install an older version or setup my email like a cell phone client? I use the 'keep on server for 1 day' feature to synch my phone and computer which auto cleans out my Inbox on my phone. I will not use IMAP so please dont try to convince me.
Office 2013 comes with Outlook in the same editions that Office 2010 or 2007 did. Office RT (the Windows RT port of Office 2013) does not come with Outlook.
Outlook 2013 can use POP3 "correctly" (in quotes because there's no correct way to use a protocol that obsolete and poorly designed) in the same manner as previous versions, yes.
Outlook RT has not yet been released, and may never be. If it is, it will probably cost some money but will almost certainly support POP3.
The default "Windows Mail" (in quotes because it's a travesty compared to the Vista-builtin program of the same name) client on Win8 and Windows RT actually does act as a mobile client, not a desktop one; this can be useful in some situations, but is more often a hassle. It does not (currently) support POP3 and may never.
Out of morbid curiosity, what's your beef with IMAP? It's not an ideal protocol, but it beats POP3 hands-down for a multi-device scenario (things like keeping track between devices of what has and has not been read, access mail sent from one device while on another one, delete from one device and optionally have it removed from all).
My "beef" is for one, its slow and clunky and i keep all my emails on my main PC in one .pst file, which is not my server. Keeping the emails on the server for one day allows me to synch Todays emails only on any phone/device i want and it works flawlessly. I also dont have to manually delete or scroll through a million emails on my phone. I also have multiple accounts which go to Outlook but only 3 that go to my phone and i dont want all of them on my phone.
Basically, it works for me and no one can convince me otherwise
In comparison to your "obsolete" comment the VA Hospital network uses a program built in COBOL and BASIC back in the 70's, yet they still run it today because it still works and is quite solid and havent been able to come up with anything that beats it. So whats wrong with using something that works?
Have you actually looked at the wire traffic for POP3? It's very inefficient. Not sure where you got the idea that IMAP was slow or clunky by comparison. Granted, if you for some reason *really* don't want to store your email on the server, then POP3 works fine (you can use IMAP the same way, but you lose most of its advantages if you do so). Of course, you're hosed if anything ever happens to that single PST file on that single hard drive, so hopefully you make backups regularly (everybody should, anyhow)...
Your phone (or any other half-decent IMAP client) has options to only sync the most recent X number of emails. "... manually delete or scroll through a million emails on my phone..." shows that you've clearly never even looked at an IMAP client closely, much less tried to use one. I set most of my accounts to sync the last two weeks. Oh, that's another thing: why do you mention that you only sync three of your accounts on the phone as though that makes POP3 better? That's actually a downside of POP3, because you'll receive everything in those accounts, with no filtering. With IMAP, you could not only choose which accounts to sync, but which folders *in* those accounts. IMAP lets you automatically (for example) filter out spam from the inbox to another folder (possibly trash), and you'll never see it on the phone at all. Also, with IMAP, you can flag items on your PC for later reading on your phone (or vice versa). Your phone should offer the ability to filter by unread messages, which means that even if you get a lot of mail you can have your phone only show you the ones that you didn't already look at on the PC (with no searching needed on your part at all).
Why compare a network protocol to a hospital mainframe, when there's such a much more obvious apples-to-apples comparison available? Speaking of which, why the heck are you using HTTP and HTML? It's just terribly "slow and clunky" compared to Gopher! Think of all the bandwidth you're wasting with those headers and those markup tags and those images! Yes, sometimes we still use old things. ASCII, for example, is 50+ years old. Of course, so are B&W CRT analogue TVs and vacuum tubes, but I bet you don't still use either of those, either...
Meh, if you're still unconvinced, you're being willfully ignorant at this point, so carry on if you wish. Don't complain when you can't find any stores that still sell buggy whips, though. The world is moving on, and rightly so.
You are hilarious. Just quit derailing the thread. Thanks for pointedly answering my 2 questions though.
GoodDayToDie said:
Have you actually looked at the wire traffic for POP3? It's very inefficient. Not sure where you got the idea that IMAP was slow or clunky by comparison. Granted, if you for some reason *really* don't want to store your email on the server, then POP3 works fine (you can use IMAP the same way, but you lose most of its advantages if you do so). Of course, you're hosed if anything ever happens to that single PST file on that single hard drive, so hopefully you make backups regularly (everybody should, anyhow)...
Your phone (or any other half-decent IMAP client) has options to only sync the most recent X number of emails. "... manually delete or scroll through a million emails on my phone..." shows that you've clearly never even looked at an IMAP client closely, much less tried to use one. I set most of my accounts to sync the last two weeks. Oh, that's another thing: why do you mention that you only sync three of your accounts on the phone as though that makes POP3 better? That's actually a downside of POP3, because you'll receive everything in those accounts, with no filtering. With IMAP, you could not only choose which accounts to sync, but which folders *in* those accounts. IMAP lets you automatically (for example) filter out spam from the inbox to another folder (possibly trash), and you'll never see it on the phone at all. Also, with IMAP, you can flag items on your PC for later reading on your phone (or vice versa). Your phone should offer the ability to filter by unread messages, which means that even if you get a lot of mail you can have your phone only show you the ones that you didn't already look at on the PC (with no searching needed on your part at all).
Why compare a network protocol to a hospital mainframe, when there's such a much more obvious apples-to-apples comparison available? Speaking of which, why the heck are you using HTTP and HTML? It's just terribly "slow and clunky" compared to Gopher! Think of all the bandwidth you're wasting with those headers and those markup tags and those images! Yes, sometimes we still use old things. ASCII, for example, is 50+ years old. Of course, so are B&W CRT analogue TVs and vacuum tubes, but I bet you don't still use either of those, either...
Meh, if you're still unconvinced, you're being willfully ignorant at this point, so carry on if you wish. Don't complain when you can't find any stores that still sell buggy whips, though. The world is moving on, and rightly so.
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Click to collapse
Maybe because not every email provider has IMAP and the Surface RT should be about flexibility. . . I certainly am not going to change my email provider of 5 years because RT can't handle it.