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I've used WM since the first SPV and have upgraded every year since. In the last 12 months I've had a Touch, Touch Diamond and now an HD. I also have an Ipod Touch.
As a die hard WM fan I'm wishing I had upgraded to the Iphone. WM is just so outdated and the UI is just so drab in comparison.
There are so many more apps available now fro iphone/ipod touch, They look better and often work better. With a new Iphone model out this year which is rumoured to run aps in the background and will you be tempted away from WM?
mwatson said:
I've used WM since the first SPV and have upgraded every year since. In the last 12 months I've had a Touch, Touch Diamond and now an HD. I also have an Ipod Touch.
As a die hard WM fan I'm wishing I had upgraded to the Iphone. WM is just so outdated and the UI is just so drab in comparison.
There are so many more apps available now fro iphone/ipod touch, They look better and often work better. With a new Iphone model out this year which is rumoured to run aps in the background and will you be tempted away from WM?
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Click to collapse
No way!
I´m aware that MS UI is not as good as should be, but the only idea of getting a "control" Iphone instead of choosing among hundreds of WM devices scares me
I´ll stick to MS with all it´s imperfections...I have hope that wm7 can be something really good.
Just my opinion.
i have had all sorts of devices and i have to say wm is where i will stay. i think that the ui is great actually. and i am sure that wm still has more apps
i dont really care about aesthetics as long as it does the job. which it does
I Love the variety of windows mobile devices and it's just what it's suppose to be a mini PC in the palm of my hand. And WM can do so much more than iphone so yep my next device will be WM
The first criterion for my mobile phone is that it is WinMo.
The second is that it has GPS.
Everything else after that is just icing the cake.
My phone is a mobile first, sat-nav second, stock-tracking PDA third. Why carry three devices when one will do it all?
The iPhone won't run my work stock-track application so it has to be WinMo.
I really want a pocket computer/phone, with a real os like Win XP or OSX that is just like on a desktop or laptop, but I haven't seen one yet, and I'm poor and will not be able to afford one when they come out! haha
But, I will be sticking with my windows mobile pda phones for now. It's the closest to what I need at the moment. Phone, email, spreadsheets, and pdf are my main needs, with gps/mapping close behind that. And from what I see, none of the other phones quite do what I want, except Palm Powered devices, but WM is more customizable, and looks better, so it wins out for me.
The only reason I would switch to an iPhone would be if it's OS can run Skyscape Applications. Otherwise, WM is just perfect for my needs.
WM
I still think WM is the best platform for overall usability and power. With WM 6.5 the UI has been simplified for easy access to important applications. Over all GUI looks a bit smoother. Can't wait to update my Treo 750 to WM 6.5.
Sadly (commercial) developement on WM has dried up. No one takes the platform seriously anymore, and yes I am jealous of the iphones many apps and better polished apps (eg compare facebook and last fm clients). Even basic things such as emails and sms messages look better on iphone.
I am very tempted to jump ship after owning a dozen different WM phones (am using HD at moment) but one thing stops me, freedom. I HATE itunes and dont want to surrender my media to it. I like copy and paste and use it all the time, I love BT file transfer, I love A2DP. iPhone is too controlled. If Apple ease up a bit then maybe id give them a try, but for now I will stick with my HD (hopefully WM 6.5 finds its way to it) for a long time. Unless I start to see some more polish from MS and some freedom from Apple, the HD will last me a long long time
darthbane2k said:
Sadly (commercial) developement on WM has dried up. No one takes the platform seriously anymore, and yes I am jealous of the iphones many apps and better polished apps (eg compare facebook and last fm clients). Even basic things such as emails and sms messages look better on iphone.
I am very tempted to jump ship after owning a dozen different WM phones (am using HD at moment) but one thing stops me, freedom. I HATE itunes and dont want to surrender my media to it. I like copy and paste and use it all the time, I love BT file transfer, I love A2DP. iPhone is too controlled. If Apple ease up a bit then maybe id give them a try, but for now I will stick with my HD (hopefully WM 6.5 finds its way to it) for a long time. Unless I start to see some more polish from MS and some freedom from Apple, the HD will last me a long long time
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Why not jailbreak the iphone? You can do more then. I've really enjoyed WM over the years. It hasn't really changed though since 2002! Not good is it? They really need to pull something impressive out the bag with WM7 to compete with the iphone.
I will never move away from WM now. I will also stay with HTC devices.......one reason is the fantastic support and apps available fom this site!!!
WM hands down! ive loved it since i got my first WM phone - The I-mate Jam which had WM5 on it right the way up until my Touch Diamond.
It is in every essence of the words a "pocket pc".
1. almost limitless customisation
2. abundance of apps and games
3. ability to have cooked ROM's
4. use it as a mobile/music&video player/camera/internet browser/GPS/gaming device/ dictation machine/personal organiser/office mobile/... the list goes on and on.
4. Freedom of choice unlike the iphone. which locks you down to using i(crappy)tunes to put any content on it.
I've become quite a fan of Windows Mobile (as many may know by my tweets). I had a very long history of the PalmOS (a small taste of Blackberry) before I jumped and I've never looked back even though I was concerned at the time.
If you really listen to the Microsoft vision (See Balmer's keynote for CES for example), they really have the best overall picture of how to take mobile smartphones to the next level. Also due to them being Microsoft, they have the best leverage to achieve that vision with the vast array of products they produce. This is where Android and Blackberry (and Pre) fail, no leverage of interoperability.
Now onto the iPhone. I have such a love/hate for Apple. They make beautiful (overpriced) products on the surface but when you dig deeper they are quite lacking for the money. The iPod clearly lacks features of many MP3 players (FM, Bluetooth, etc), the iPhone does this as well. The major flaw is the current OS they've released does not allow multiple apps to run, this is why simple features like cut-and-paste are missing. As a WinMob user, this is essential to have a solid smartphone OS.
My biggest hate for Apple throughout the 80s to now is the lock-in philosophy. Apple simply has control freak mentality in its culture. You have to buy everything in their stores (jailbreaking is illegal), the hardware has to be created by us, the software needs to be approved by us, etc. They really are the Anti to the Open Source philosophy. They really make Microsoft look like saints to the open source world.
So the question was whether my next device will be WM? I'm not sure. I just got the Samsung Saga i770 back in December so it will likely be at least a year before I switch phones again. By then version 6.5 will be out and until I actually play with the Honeycomb interface, I'm not exactly warm on the Zune-like UI. I have a Zune (I won) and don't really care for the UI. If I can keep the Today screen and customize it with 3rd party apps like I do today then I'd be cool in that area. That said, I try to keep an open mind and I'm not opposed to switching but I don't see Apple changing its philosophy anytime soon, RIM has improved but I'm still not sold, so I guess Android and the Palm Pre may be those options.
I also kind of like the concept of a watch phone if it was waterproof and could tether to any device around me which would free us from always carrying a specific form factor (sometimes you may want a pda, a netbook, tablet, a laptop or carry nothing).
--Mark
twitter.com/manielse
I have been thinking about this a lot - I might switch to a palm pre if the feedback is good from early adopters or might want to see what the next generation of android devices are like.
My next device will PROBABLY be WM, but I can't make a guarantee on that.
I love WM's flexibility, customizeability, and power, but I loathe its sluggishness, blandness, and lack of fun/stylish/interesting apps.
Hopefully, MS launching an official app store will help with the last part. Unfortunately, I think the iPhone still has a big advantage here, since devs only have a single resolution and configuration to program for so they can make more "controlled" apps. I'm hoping MS helps on this by encouraging fullscreen WVGA development for 6.5 / 7.
If Android had actually been what I'd hoped (a mobile frontend to Google's whole web ecosystem, including integrated apps and picasa support), I'd probably be aching to jump ships. We'll see how both Android and WM develop in the next year or so before I get ready to make any switches.
WM is to stay with me (I mean HTC, because of the XDA-developers) for a long time
Cheers
Hmm. Well I am with Verizon and always get a new phone with NE2 deal. At the end of the year I get the deal. I won't ever switch to another carrier so as much as I like what I see in Palm Pre, I will not get it. Nor will I get an iphone for the same reason (and even more because you have to jail break it to get it working) or G1. Anyway, I think I will just wait until 2010 to get a new phone. I really wish WM7 was released sometime in 2010 because I know for sure I would wait to get it. But anyway, right now I am loving my XV6800 I got last year and will not give it up anytime soon.
I think what I might do is get an Ipod Touch HD (hoping Apple finally releases a widescreen version and higher res) when it ever releases. This way I will not miss out on all the cool apps (well the free ones at least). I connected one to my phone which was fun and will definetly do that if I get one.
I love Windows Mobile (so flexable, love tweaking it, all the apps, xda! and hope WM7 is released sooner then later. I might upgrade my XV6800 to WM6.5 but either way I hope to continue to be on Windows Mobile and my next phone will hopfully be a WM7 phone.
palm pre for me
How many phones are knobbled when it comes to trying to write a program to run on it. WM will take a fair amount of effort to learn how to do it, but it can be done. .NET for starters or Win32 C++ if you want to take a look round the engine room. Embedded C++ 3.0 and 4.0 are still available gratis from Microsoft's Web site. .NET requires Visual studio, but not the gratis versions. Not quite as wizzo as the finger flicking Touch interfaces, but what the hell. Have a go and see what you can come up with.
First of all I would like to say many thanks to all the developers in this site. I think you all have the talent and know how of making a plain windows phone into something incredible. My thanks to the maker of energy rom, and all those fantastic developers. Helping to make this comunity greater and better. I am going to miss you all. Yes I have moved into the iPhone community.
Let Me just tell you all this is my opinion and yours counts as well. I have been a very avid windows mobile user, but more so an htc fan then any. I write this thread to let you all know of my findings from switching to an apple device. with that said I also would like to emphisize that my findings are based off of device and not network.
iPhone vs windows mobile
*landscape supported in both
*copy and paste supported in both thanks to OS 3.0
*user interface- on iPhone comes built in with a nice OS
-on htc nice as well but customizable. Thanks to xda forum
*physical keyboard- only built in to some htc devices
-on iPhone does not include a physical keyboard but I feel this product in terms of progress is moving foward faster. So what I mean is this product does not include a physical keyboard you can purchase one. But the soft keys included are nice with a little practice. Even thow landscape is not supported on most device but it is on the most use full apps.
*productivity- email, document editing, mms, tethering, auto spell check,
WM- supports all of these except spell check is an extra step
iPhone - supports email, doesn't come with word editing apps but i have purchased docs to go which I like and will allow me to get free updates.($5) mms thanks to mms not supported thanks to AT&T but it will by summer( check iPhone alley for up to date news or engadget. Tethering again thanks to AT&T no sir again to be announced, auto spell check is default and a plus since o generally suck in spelling.
* customizble- supported on both via xda and jailbreak, I still like the OS so I don't need to until I get bored but I'm pretty happy now.
*UI
- wm/not very user friendly but customizable thanks to xda. Hope fully windows gets the clue.
-iphone/ very user friendly , auto spell check on the fly, dual touch, browser a plus still waiting on firefox but iPhone browser is much faster. No flash support this is a downside the the iPhone. The text magnifier is a handy tool. Easy access tools like app store handy and comes with pre approved handy tools.(and free apps ass well)
*multimedia on both is pretty equal
*gaming is a dead blow away based off of amount of developers and screen size On the iPhone , dual touch helps in dramatic amounts.
My thoughts- altough the iPhone is not the best choice for everyone. There are pros and cons for both device. This being a WM forum I expect "flamming" but instead write why you stay with wm(not htc related because I love xda and htc and don't wish to sell my fuze) i find apples iPhone is moving slot faster progress wize in terms of when they started and what it has accomplished to this date. Windows made a big mistake delaying development on windows 7.0 OS. 2010 just shows they where not ready. Thank you all
My 2 cents on user friendliness.
I would think, from a perspective of someone who likes tweaking, that wm is much more user friendly since it allows me to customize it to my heart's content rather than jailbreaking the thing to even do basic things like changing the background to every page.
The iphone is more idiot proof than user friendly. In apple's classic style, anything that provides the user to customize the system is completely locked down unless hacked. what you can use is what they allow you to, not what you want to.
multi-touch is nice and is something i wish more smartphones will adopt in the future but I don't feel like it's a "game changer" especially gaming on a smartphone is not something that's that fancy. there are plenty counterpart apps for both OS that are mirrors of each other, like the light saber, tetris, bubble breaker, etc etc.
oh i forgot to mention, tethering... it is possible for the fuze to tether thanks to some of the resident geniuses of XDA who saved many of us from having to pay 30-50 bucks extra for tethering. the iphone's tethering is still in the process since I highly doubt att will let them get away with it for free or atleast without some haggling between apple and att.
my conclusion to this is that the review is good, i just don't approve of apple's take on "customization" (or lack thereof).
mputtr said:
My 2 cents on user friendliness.
I would think, from a perspective of someone who likes tweaking, that wm is much more user friendly since it allows me to customize it to my heart's content rather than jailbreaking the thing to even do basic things like changing the background to every page.
The iphone is more idiot proof than user friendly. In apple's classic style, anything that provides the user to customize the system is completely locked down unless hacked. what you can use is what they allow you to, not what you want to.
multi-touch is nice and is something i wish more smartphones will adopt in the future but I don't feel like it's a "game changer" especially gaming on a smartphone is not something that's that fancy. there are plenty counterpart apps for both OS that are mirrors of each other, like the light saber, tetris, bubble breaker, etc etc.
oh i forgot to mention, tethering... it is possible for the fuze to tether thanks to some of the resident geniuses of XDA who saved many of us from having to pay 30-50 bucks extra for tethering. the iphone's tethering is still in the process since I highly doubt att will let them get away with it for free or atleast without some haggling between apple and att.
my conclusion to this is that the review is good, i just don't approve of apple's take on "customization" (or lack thereof).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for you input, I agree on customizabilty. This is basic stuff. It's your phone you should be allowed to personalize it by default. What I can do with out jail break is add my own short cuts off the web and changes some of my back ground. My friend has managed to change his icons to a Laker theme, and mms enabled on his phone. Other have managed a vista ultima desktop with video background. Which to me is cool but I doubt I find it usefull productive wize. Gaming on the iPhone is different. I encourage all to take some time to YouTube developed games, ping pong, archers, brickbreaker revollusion, tap tap revenge 2, stick wars , and ifighter. This is thanks to multi touch. But I thank you for your input. And tethering is enabled for free you just have to click a link in iPhone alley. And this is money saving as well. Thank you and more should write this will let Windows mobile step up their game.
Being a long time windows mobile and long time iPhone user, here is my take on this:
iPhone is fun, smooth and pretty nifty - for someone who doesn't rely on a device to get stuff done.
WM is a slower, sometimes ugly beast that gets **** done. It may not be the prettiest but if I need it to do something, it does it.
Case and point - I manage 10 separate business units and I rely on notifications to remind me about things. The iPhone just doesn't cut it, even with its 3.0 upgrade. Without a rock solid time specific task function/reminding system that can be snoozed, it's worthless for me.
What the iPhone does better:
Web - hands down it is a better experience
Email - Again, much better IMO on the iPhone
Note taking - iPhone stomps all over WM here especially with Evernote. The newest Evernote is absolutely incredible on the iPhone.
Pictures - My fuze is much better in this area and I don't want to buy the newest iPhone to get auto zoom.
3rd party programs - iPhone may have 50,000 apps, but WM has the apps "I" need to run my business, at least at this point.
I hemmed and hawed about it for a few weeks but I gave my iPhone to my 17 year old son who doesn't need a business class device and I got an iPod touch. I can still have nifty web browsing on the go and most of the benefits of apps like Evernote.
WM is still king in my mind but there are some things that would push it over the top in regards to the Apple offerings:
1. Capacitive screen - It's amazing and makes the resistive touch of the normal PDA's seem old and outdated.
2. Give us a Word/Excel/PP Viewer program in addition to the damn programs included that rip the formatting to shreds of anything remotely complex that we open with them. Granted, there are other programs that have better compatability that the built in office apps, but come on MS, Office is YOUR program!
3. This is for hardware vendors - Get your **** together and actually include driver support so your devices look and act as smoothly as the iPhone. I have a fuze that has more memory and a faster processor (in MHz only I know) than the iPhone but it's a dog. Gimme some smooth eye candy! I look at this damn device for hours per day, at least make it more enjoyable! MS needs to step up to the plate here and realize that the 3rd party hardware vendors are the ones causing the problems. Make them have to certify devices in the areas of performance and appearance before they launch.
4. Put more than 5 people on task to put an upgraded mobile operating system out. I am embarrassed for MS that they would do something like that. I don't care if they are the best of the best, mobile computing is the future and you guys are missing the boat by such a large margin it isn't even funny in the areas of usability and looks.
-Asbestos
iPhone vs WM
I agree with asbestos, if I need a real fancy music player, I'll put stickers on my "work" WM Touch Pro. My Touch Pro does WORK just fine.
I'll pay for my TP with SPB Mobile Shell 3.0, before given a fancy music player.
Someday, somebody will realize you can play music and videos on WM. Granted Windows Media Player sucks. But there are other multimedia apps.
What I will yield to Apple is our MS developers as a whole SUCK compared to the tons of great apps being created daily for iPhone, that could be made for WM. SOmebody needs to tell WM dev's to just sit down and copy every app they make. Cause WM is not the best in ingenuity.
My two cents,
JWB
Stickers ?!? Really?
That's the most educated piece of mine you can come up with. Better yet how about you mension konomi or any other great media player and recomend windows come with a built in finger friendly and eye candy friendly UI. Yes windows does need to look into developers from this site to make their products better.
Business over entertainment
asbestos said:
Being a long time windows mobile and long time iPhone user, here is my take on this:
iPhone is fun, smooth and pretty nifty - for someone who doesn't rely on a device to get stuff done.
WM is a slower, sometimes ugly beast that gets **** done. It may not be the prettiest but if I need it to do something, it does it.
Case and point - I manage 10 separate business units and I rely on notifications to remind me about things. The iPhone just doesn't cut it, even with its 3.0 upgrade. Without a rock solid time specific task function/reminding system that can be snoozed, it's worthless for me.
What the iPhone does better:
Web - hands down it is a better experience
Email - Again, much better IMO on the iPhone
Note taking - iPhone stomps all over WM here especially with Evernote. The newest Evernote is absolutely incredible on the iPhone.
Pictures - My fuze is much better in this area and I don't want to buy the newest iPhone to get auto zoom.
3rd party programs - iPhone may have 50,000 apps, but WM has the apps "I" need to run my business, at least at this point.
I hemmed and hawed about it for a few weeks but I gave my iPhone to my 17 year old son who doesn't need a business class device and I got an iPod touch. I can still have nifty web browsing on the go and most of the benefits of apps like Evernote.
WM is still king in my mind but there are some things that would push it over the top in regards to the Apple offerings:
1. Capacitive screen - It's amazing and makes the resistive touch of the normal PDA's seem old and outdated.
2. Give us a Word/Excel/PP Viewer program in addition to the damn programs included that rip the formatting to shreds of anything remotely complex that we open with them. Granted, there are other programs that have better compatability that the built in office apps, but come on MS, Office is YOUR program!
3. This is for hardware vendors - Get your **** together and actually include driver support so your devices look and act as smoothly as the iPhone. I have a fuze that has more memory and a faster processor (in MHz only I know) than the iPhone but it's a dog. Gimme some smooth eye candy! I look at this damn device for hours per day, at least make it more enjoyable! MS needs to step up to the plate here and realize that the 3rd party hardware vendors are the ones causing the problems. Make them have to certify devices in the areas of performance and appearance before they launch.
4. Put more than 5 people on task to put an upgraded mobile operating system out. I am embarrassed for MS that they would do something like that. I don't care if they are the best of the best, mobile computing is the future and you guys are missing the boat by such a large margin it isn't even funny in the areas of usability and looks.
-Asbestos
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Click to collapse
my friend you are a perfect example to why windows is best for you.
I'm not saying and nor do I feel you are saying that I beleive the iPhone is better then a fuze. I beleive there is no such thing as an iPhone killer simply because every phone is built for a specific user.
In this case the user is a business user. I can't imagine typing countless emails and documents simply by using the soft keys altough I have seen some impressive typing on the iPhone. Not everyone is talented enough to move like the do. But I find my self getting faster each day. The built in keyboard is an advantage that I don't have on the iPhone. What weighed in my mind was windows mobile first came out in 1975 I beleive... And it has years of experience over the iPhone. The iPhone has 3 years in the market yet development for this device has excelled. What I beleive is windows took it's customers for granted said here is this product enjoy it but never develops after that? Windows 6.1 windows 6.5 windows 7.0 ? These are all slow developed UI. Windows give your consumers what they want not honey combs. Come out with 7.0 already.
Why does everyone who goes to an iPhone write one of these long, stupid, and annoying "goodbye" posts justifying their reasons for going to an iPhone? Just sell your HTC, get an iPhone, and go away. It is that easy.
My take is both are excellent phones/devices.
The reason I went to the HTC over the iPhone isn't a bias against the iPhone, but because I've used PPC/windows mobile OS's since the days of the Dell Axim X5. I'm comfortable with the WM OS, know how to tweak & hack it, customize it to suit me. The iPhone OS, really can't do a lot with it, as far as customization. Plus, the iPhone, is really intended as a "multimedia" device.
The TP/Fuze is too, but, it's not as integrated as the iPhone. I don't play MP3's, movies or anything like that. I use my TP/Fuze as a business device, and it does it very well.
Either phone, you really can't go wrong, it's a choice issue.
asbestos said:
What the iPhone does better:
Note taking - iPhone stomps all over WM here especially with Evernote. The newest Evernote is absolutely incredible on the iPhone.
-Asbestos
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Click to collapse
Say What? How does Evernote "stomp" all over OneNote? What does Evernote do that OneNote does not?
i hate these comparisons wars with smartphones going on. its like console wars or format wars. the iphone isnt bad, infact its very good. you choose the product you like the best. its not like its something you have to show off to the world and that you where the wisest because you choose it and others didnt because they are tards. i find it very hard to recommend windows mobile phones. they can do a lot if you put some work into it like a hobby. i chose between the touch pro and the iphone and went for the touch pro and i must of thought it better for me cause i even paid alot more for it. my entire family has iphones (cept my sister who has a palm centro) and that works for them. i think the touch pro is better in alot more ways but the iphone is there for people who need something easy for them.
Where to start... I'm going to get flamed a ****load for this but I could care less, all I'm doing is stating the truth.
Windows Mobile SUCKS and the ONLY reason that 6.5 is coming out is because Microsoft has finally (sort of) listened to us and made WinMo a much more user-friendly experience.
Ok that was a bit harsh lol, but out of the box, windows mobile is slow trash, and that's the whole reason XDA is here. To make windows mobile devices usable and reliable. iPhone requires no customization to be reliable. It does what it should do. It is a multimedia device, which is what 95% of custom ROMs are aiming at doing - making your phone an enjoyable, multimedia device. Maybe 10% of WinMo users actually use it for BUSINESS usage.
The iPhone has never been advertised as a "High-Powered business device", but it basically set standards for new phones. The only reason we have interfaces like TouchFlo3D and such is because HTC is trying to make WinMo devices as enjoyable as iPhones are! I love my Touch Pro and all, but let's face it - it will never be as intuitive and smooth as iPhone OS. If the iPhone were never released, we would still be stuck with Palm OS, The standard WinMo today screen, and Android & WebOS wouldn't even exist.
Why do you guys think S2U2 is so wildly popular? We all (or most of us, not all) want our devices to perform like an iPhone! If the iPhone was released with a QWERTY hardware keyboard, and it had a jailbreak, I KNOW that most of us would flock to it within days. There are many apps available for jailbroken iPhones that mimic the today screen, and by that, I mean Calendar appointments, text messages, e-mails etc are all viewable right when you turn on your device, on the Slide to Unlock menu.
HTC, do you care about your windows mobile users at all? Why are you force-feeding us your ****ty 528 Mhz qualcomm processors with no video drivers? Every phone you've released in the past year or so (which is a lot) has had the SAME EXACT SPECS. 528 Mhz Qualcomm, 288/256 MB of RAM, 512 MB Storage. Why do you do this? Because you know we'll buy your devices anyways? I know Apple is tight on security and such, leaving you with such little customizability of your phone, but it is a SMOOTH, ENJOYABLE experience! Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to justify spending $700 on an unlocked phone.
Most iPhone bashers have never actually used one in person. I've compared many HTC phones with it, and it is obviously a much smoother experience. Video recording is OUTSTANDING on the iPhone 3GS. I know it's technology we've had for years on older phones, but let's be honest, there's a reason Apple is releasing it just now. They wanted it to be perfect - and it is.
I'll remain loyal to HTC, but if Apple ever releases an iPhone with a qwerty keyboard, I know most of us will trash our HTC devices.
Roflcopterrr said:
Even more of a blow to HTC.. have you guys seen the latest OpenGL benchmarks for the 3GS?
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare....3G S&D2=HTC P4600 Touch Pro&D3=HTC Touch Pro2
The difference in performance between HTC devices and the iPhone are very dramatic.. This is exactly what I mean. I'm sure the iPhone drivers were developed and production was rolling along on the 3GS around the same time as the Touch Pro2's release - so there shouldn't be any "but it's newer!" argument.
Come on HTC.. do you think we LIKE tearing, artifacting, and overall slow performance?
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Click to collapse
Oh no
Another comparing iphoney thread!
this is the number 54 thread...
I won´t never change to iphoney, too much reasons already have said about it, but the most important one
I won´t have the support of this great site
Respectfully,
Sadly I agree with you man, I also am tired with the poor gui, ancient msm qualcom processors. HTC is lacking majorly.
As is microsoft for that matter.
The only thing I will say is to wait for the tegra
so go post on an iphone site.
i agree with him completely.
the form factor of many of the Winmo phones are stunning. and the interfaces seem smooth and solid when skinned. i LOVE the looks of TouchFlo3D and the new TouchFlo3D2.5
but for all the comments and stuff i see on IPhone forums about Winmo having a greater selection of programs i am having an extremely difficult time finding programs that can do everything that is available now on the IPhone platform. much less be smooth and easy to use.
i cant imagine Roflcopterrr is here to troll, and i know i am not. but you cannot just twist the facts for your own purposes. (i'm talking about Winmo users claiming that their platform CANNOT run programs as smoothly as the IPhone because they can Multitask)
double post. oops.
josefcrist said:
so go post on an iphone site.
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Click to collapse
dont be a baby. And don't take it personal. Dude, I lashed out at someone in the past for this same post and almost got banned. But the truth is competition is not brewing excellence here. It is one sided. There is no comparison with the gui throughput of the iphone compared to our HTC devices. Until the tegra comes out we will be sitting here with thumbs up our asses. Thats the truth.
As it was said, mobile technology is moving at a turtles pace in the winmo world. There needs to be more of an effort in HTC and microsofts part. This post is only stating the obvious. OUR **** IS WEAK
also in america, our providers are ****ting on us with there frequent tardy releases of HTC phones. (minus the kaiser)
i did not mean it in a hurtful way. i was just messing around you cant hear the tone of my voice.
I am pretty excited for the tegra and the snapdragon i think that they will do good things for windows mobile. it is hard for me to change to a different platform after having half a dozen windows mobile based devices in a row for the past 6 or so years.
sdlopez83 said:
Sadly I agree with you man, I also am tired with the poor gui, ancient msm qualcom processors. HTC is lacking majorly.
As is microsoft for that matter.
The only thing I will say is to wait for the tegra
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is how it is.
Even more of a blow to HTC.. have you guys seen the latest OpenGL benchmarks for the 3GS?
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?benchmark=glpro&showhide=true&D1=Apple iPhone 3G S&D2=HTC P4600 Touch Pro&D3=HTC Touch Pro2
The difference in performance between HTC devices and the iPhone are very dramatic.. This is exactly what I mean. I'm sure the iPhone drivers were developed and production was rolling along on the 3GS around the same time as the Touch Pro2's release - so there shouldn't be any "but it's newer!" argument.
Come on HTC.. do you think we LIKE tearing, artifacting, and overall slow performance?
The iPhone has caused a stir because it is accessible, like all Apple products - you open the box, switch it on and it works. The app store is just fantastic because it gives the poor saps that own an iPhone just one place to look for software.
The thing is, they need to look for software because the iPhone is lacking on so many levels - bluetooth, video etc etc. The deeper you dig the more crap you find the iPhone to be, you can only now forward a text message (that is ELEMENTARY), video has only just been made available, there are no minute minders etc etc etc.
Where us WM users lose out is the fact we have so much choice - we have free apps coming out of our ears you just need to search them out. Sure some a pants and lack development, but that's because their coded by someone in their bedroom.
MS and HTC need to trawl these forums and pick some key ideas (and the coders that go with them) put them all in a room and throw ten dollar bills at them. That way we will eventually get a smooth bug-free OS that looks fantastic and performs as it deserves to.
I can't imagine how MS have been able to get away with such a clunky mobile OS for so long, and the official mobile versions of Word and Excel are just pathetic - there a third party apps that just blow these away.
Come on MS, come on HTC, give us what we've been paying for for all these years.
PS my Kaiser is about 70% business 30% fun, but I wouldn't have it if I didn't have a business use for it.
I have a $600 phone (HTC Touch Pro) that can only record CIF video at 15 fps, same as my dumbphone from 2004. HTC is crap.
Yeah, I know, the iPhone is slick, but it ain't what it should be - just like the Win Mo hardware isn't.
HTC has been churning out the same spec "it'll do" kit for too long. BUT, at least we have GPS that generally works, we have turn by turn satnav in spades, car mounts from every vendor, we have choice. iPhone users do not have choice.
What you have to remember is that we are probably in a 5% of phone users, 'early adopters' I think is the phrase marketeers use. We see the opportunities for this kit, more than the manufacturers do. In 5 years time we'll still be complaining even though we'll have multitouch screens with HD video and decent battery life - it'll be "why can't I connect to my satellite broadband account?" That's what we're like.
No excuse for HTC and MS to not make the effort though.
If it was just as simple as comparing processor performance and UI smoothness than this thread and this forum wouldn't be necessary. There's a lot more to it than that. I can't go Apple because it takes a special kind of person to own apple products and I'm not that kind of person. There are a million reasons why and I can't name them all off the top but here are some:
You can get a slingbox app for iphone but you cannot sling over 3g. Thanks Apple but no thanks. It's my data plan, I paid for it, I'm an adult and I'll decide how I want to use my kb!
They won't let apps be released that could potentially have naughty words or pictures in them. Who the hell do they think they are? I'm a grown ass man and I'll watch porn all day if I decide to do so.
They have been known to kill apps in their app store and then release OS upgrades with the same functionality.
How about download limits of 10mb over 3g? In a funny example of the bitter irony between wm and iphone - when my coworker wants to download something over 10mb at work I start my WMwifirouter and let him get on my 'network' to do his download. Much to AT&T and Apples chagrin he is still getting his download over 3g!
Bluetooth profiles? What's that for?
Did you hear about the new iphone? it's a phone - and it does mms, copy & paste and video recording. What a groundbreaking idea!
I don't keep my computers desktop cluttered with a bunch of icons. That isn't a good way of handling things. The only parts of the iphone ui that I admire are the scrolling and finger friendly aspects. The lack of detail and control over options drives me nuts.
It's like Apple sells you the hardware and then wants to sit on your shoulder and make you use it how they dictate.
Also, I wouldn't say that this site exists because of WM's shortcomings. I would say this sight exists because of the open nature of WM. I'm sure there are things iphone owners would love to tweak, but a sight like this is impossible in the apple world.
So for me Apples philosophy and business model are big net negatives when put head to head with the WM options. While you are correct about the hardware and performance advantages on iphone, keep in mind that these crappy Qualcomm processors are about to be forgotten. Nvidia's hardware is going to forever change the game. There is a leaked 2009 product list from HTC showing a device named Superstar putting a 3.7 inch display powered by Nvidia ap16. That device will be ridiculous. Also, Engadget has the scoop on an Nvidia Tegra powered device hitting US carriers this year for $199. Once these devices hit the market we will just need WM7 to follow along and the gap will be totally bridged.
I'm sure there are things iphone owners would love to tweak, but a sight like this is impossible in the apple world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean like jailbreak?
No, I mean more than warez and themes.
What then? I'm really quite interested in differences between both platforms, specifically what they can/can't do at full potential.
Digitaltigre said:
No, I mean more than warez and themes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like??????
Digitaltigre - He said what I wanted to, but couldn't.
I don't use one evryday but what Im saying is if theres things you dont like about iphone you're pretty much stuck with it. Look at what we are able to do on WM for example.
If you don't like the volume control you can install one from a different Rom. If you get tired of it you can uninstall it and go back to the standard vol control. If you decide you want different video drivers they can be cooked into a Rom. I can get into my registry and change my proxy settings, default photo location favorite channels in slingmedia player etc. I use AE button plus to remap all my hardware buttons. I have the right softkey on a double push do alt-tab between apps. That way I can have two progs open that I need to transfer info between. How can you do any of those customizations on the iphone? You cant. You may say that you wouldn't want to change the iphone but I'm saying what if you did?
Besides that I'm tired of Apple acting like they invented stuff. They brought the first gen out w/out 3g when my wm phone had 3g for years! Then when they dropped the 3g they were acting like 3g didn't exist before their new phone. Now their commercials for the 3gs are bragging on features that once again, I've had for a long time. Voice control? Really? Anyone tried Ms Voice Command? I can ask my phone what appointments I have tomorrow. I have to admit their implementation of copy/paste is pretty sweet, but there's no excuse for making users go 3 years without that basic feature. I just saw a commercial where they showed 'you can copy a phone number and paste it in a text message' Wow! I am just floored. These dudes are not making devices for me. I feel dumber everytime they talk to me!
I have to say I admire the iphone form factor...the glass capacitive touch screen, the quality build. But thats where it ends. If there was a Touch HD style phone with US 3g bands and an Nvidia chip under the hood - forget about it, it would be a wrap son. Those devices are coming and Im waiting patiently!
I know you guys probably heard this a thousand times (and a forum search shows this) and what I'm about to say is probably very cliche, but the iPhone is a pretty amazing device.
Typically, I am a WM man (I currently own an HTC Touch Pro), and I've owned WM phones/devices for a long time now. I tried other OSes (Symbian, Palm OS), but ultimately, I prefer WM. When the iPhone first appeared, I disregarded it almost entirely because it's made by Apple. As someone familiar with Apple, I just didn't like them very much (largely due to their design philosophy).
Things didn't look like they were about to change. In fact, the next phones I was seriously looking at was the Toshiba TG01, Samsung Omnia HD i9810, and Samsung Omnia Pro B7610. Two of these are Windows Mobile and one is Symbian (which I was less likely to get anyway). The only major difference is that they aren't HTC (I want to move away from HTC because I exceedingly dislike Qualcomm).
However, something special happened yesterday: My friend invited me to lunch and he showed me his new iPhone 3GS. He allowed me to play with it.
In one word: Incredible!
As my intuition knew, I ended up not liking the design of the OS (I still prefer WM's design), but I couldn't really deny how well made the iPhone really is. More than anything else, I really have to compliment how extremely optimized it really is. Opening any software, going to the home screen, playing movies/music, and doing just about anything really was incredibly smooth. The entire time I was with my friend, I just gushed and gushed about this one aspect. The reason why is because it really is incredible how fast everything was.
The truth is that when compared side to side with my Touch Pro, the speed is really the same. However, a few things to note. First, everyone know how the iPhone seems to use "gradual transitions"? To elaborate, whenever you do anything, such as opening software or rotation, it is done in real time, and you can see the changes with your eyes. This is as opposed to WM where it is done immediately (for example, rotating with my TP results in an immediate change as opposed to you seeing the screen rotate on the iPhone).
This seems like a minor thing, but it has a large effect on perception. Notably, it makes you perceive it as being faster. When I counted down the seconds on the iPhone and WM, I noticed that opening programs and rotation are really done at the same speed, but the iPhone's gradual transition effects makes you perceive it as being faster, which is actually pretty nice.
Second thing and a very important point: My TP uses a custom ROM, which is why its speed was on par with that of the iPhone. If it had been using the stock ROM, I am positive that the iPhone would have crushed it in speed.
This seems like a moot point because I *can* use custom ROMs, but note that this forum and all of its custom ROMs are largely exclusive to HTC phones (with the sole exception of the Xperia...which was made by HTC anyway). What happens if I decide to use another WM phone (for example, the Samsung B7610)? Then I would have no choice but to remain with the stock ROM or at least hope someone would develop the stray ROM for the Samsung devices (such as the i900 on XDA).
At this point, I'm also willing to blame the speed issue on hardware. After all, the iPhone is about 72MHZ faster than my phone, and it also also has a dedicated graphics chip. On the other hand, I also have to take into consideration that it takes a custom, optimized ROM for my device to keep up with the stock ROM on a series of device which is notorious for being outdated (anyone remember the iPhone 2G)?
If anyone is wondering, am I thinking about switching to the dark side? Unfortunately, no. While the huge number of apps and the great speed is tantalizing, I am still the guy who frequently spends 4+ hours changing the ROMs on his phones (and tweaking it afterwards). I'm also the guy who frequently goes into the settings menu because he nitpicks about how each little thing on his phone works.
Can I switch to something that won't allow me that much customization? Speaking as someone who's about to change the ROM on his phone again, the answer appears to be a pretty clear 'no' as this point.
On, the other hand, while playing with the iPhone, I did find myself wishing that the Windows Mobile experience was as smooth, and great as with the iPhone, especially on stock ROMs. I also did find myself wondering what Windows Mobile 7 will be like (I can't wonder with WM6.5 because I'm using it now). But of course, what do people saying about wishing too much? It's useless.
Am I going mad?
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Apparently that's wrong.
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Screen went a nice mix of colours and it totally stopped working. Quite a few plug ins to the computer and it came back to life.
There just to fragile and to big(iphone is thicker than the touch also), good girls phone or if you carry a handbag.
Glade I got the Jade not a problem so far.
thedigitel said:
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that the AT&T contract you have to sign up for to get an iPhone? If that's the case, why not just buy the iPhone unlocked? It's expensive, but it cost about as much as any HTC phone I've seen.
charge1313 said:
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As of right now, the iPhone has roughly 50K-60K of apps while the last article detailing how many apps Windows Mobile seems to have stopped at 20K. Futhermore, the iPhone famously beaten Windows Mobile in reaching 25K apps, and I find it highly unlikely that Windows Mobile caught up.
Even from an outside perspective, though, it seems to me that the iPhone has an impressive number of apps, including a plethora of ones that Windows Mobile never seems to get (or is even capable of getting).
stu-k said:
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
I entirely agree.
My wife has a Gen 1 iphone, and I recently updated it to version 3 and unlocked and jailbreaked.
In the old days, WM had thousands of apps as one of its killer features.
I recently spent a few evenings installing apps on the wife's phone, and I was blown away. Not necessarily by the quality, but by the experience.
Everything is smooth, everything works, the user experience is "unchallenging".
I love tweaking, I love coding, I love spending MONTHS dissecting the WinMob OS to implement a tiny hack. But you know what? Why bother?!
I can't see myself giving up on WinMob - it's got momentum, and I can't be bothered to learn Objective C. I'm barely coping with C++ as it is.
But, to paraphrase Gauntlet, "WinMob [may be] about to die".
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
But - the user experience is OLD.
And I think one of the most fundamental flaws is also one of the biggest strengths - WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware. But the problem:
WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware.
Some of those have graphic accelerators, some don't.
Some have dpads, some don't.
Some have 600mhz CPUs, some don't.
The iphone is a single homogeneous ecosystem.
Coders know they can anti-alias without trying to code to the lowest common denominator 200mhz phone with 16mb of ram. They know exactly what they're gonna get with an iphone. And that fact means they know the limitations, and how to pitch what they've got at the right performance considerations. They know what they're working on. The Human Interface spec is incredible, and incredibly helpful. Users expect an experience, naturally, because it feels natural. Apple encourages that, and coders have to honour it.
I think most of the iphone experience can and should be emulated on WinMob.
I'm not just talking about cloning Springboard and everything else. Yes, we can emulate this and that - our coders on XDA devs are incredible, and could do every bit of it.
But we need more: the experience of just being able to use the phone and expect it to work needs to be emulated.
I don't think the iphone is necessarily a better piece of hardware: I prefer my Touch HD. But clearly the user experience, the user interface paradigm, the reward of just being able to use the thing easily needs to be implemented - from the ground up.
I don't think this is going to happen on WinMob; I think the strength/limitations of a wide open platform means this probably can't happen. I think that like Win CE before it, WinMob will end up being relegated to a certain environment that has low expectations (eg Enterprise markets).
But if "Windows" devices are going to survive, I think the change has to happen at a much higher level. I can only hope that Pink or whatever is on the horizon for WinMob 7 is an integrated piece of hardware and user experience designed from the ground up to feel like it's the 21st century... using WinMob out of pity is going to get old, very very soon.
V
8525Smart said:
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have to agree, I hate carry around two devices. Hence no longer use Ipod touch on the go, just leave it at home in docking station, which its good for.
Use the Jade for music and a phone which fits on my pocket.
I find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
vijay555 said:
I entirely agree.
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my God, yes, YES!
I can't count the number of times I had to defend WinMo against people who obviously never used it. The number of ridiculously comments I seen was ludicrous and often times seem as if the people saying it were just parroting common criticisms as opposed to their actual experience.
One guy I saw even suggested that receiving text/emails and switching between apps was impossible.
On the other hand, I agree with the rest of your post too (as is the subject of my topic). I think you really hit the nail on the head: Windows Mobile's biggest strength, its availability on multiple phones, is also its biggest weakness.
As an owner of a Fuze, an HTC phone with an accelerometer, the lack of accelero-meter WinMo apps makes it very apparent.
I do agree with you that Microsoft needs to do something, at the very least, about the user experience, but I really don't see how it can be done. The iPhone is able to achieve this because it is a software available on one hardware designed by Apple themselves. In order for Microsoft to achieve the same quality of apps or user experience, they would have to design Windows Mobile to take advantage of a particular hardware specification.
As of currently, the best Microsoft can probably achieve is to design Windows Mobile with the best optimization they can while maintaining good compatibility and appearance with a wide number of hardware.
stu-k said:
HI find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That may be true, but to be fair, the Windows Mobile landscape isn't exactly clear of 'gimmicky' apps either. Some of them even inspired by iPhone equivalents.
HDWobble, anyone?
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
jim_0068 said:
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
poetryrocksalot said:
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
crazy talk said:
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh that's a shame... this app is useless then. I heard that Apple is considering the idea of having full support for background applications.
The problem is that:
1) Apple knows that not many people care about "background" applications.
2) Consumer common sense is distorted in that they don't understand the purpose of multi-task. They believe that multi-task is already on the iPhone because obviously, you can "exit the application into another application". This isn't the point, a true multitasking system requires A) background applications B) automation of background functions and C) the ability to switch tasks in the foreground of an application.
3) Apple knows that adding background applications will result in people complaining of slowness because 1) Alot of people still don't know what RAM is, not even my sister who is a 4+ year college student working on her masters and 2) Alot of people do not know how to manage a platform involving background applications and 3) average consumers would rather sacrifice functionality for ease-of-use.
I believe the emphasis of this multi-tasking is not a multi-tasking complaint. Idiots are prone to think that the iPhone already has multi-tasking; I've seem them argue about it. We need to add a mentality to people in which they learn that it isn't about multi-tasking, it's about background applications and how we need applications to function in the background.
Well the 3GS has double the ram and faster processor, hopefully they (third-parties) can find a way to make actual multi-tasking more plausible.
new beast in town
the android os is really taking shape and will soon be king. with so many different devices coming aboard this thing will be huge. the g1 now is awesome with just a little tweaking and those who don't want to tweak there are 2 more ota coming in the next 5 months.
nonzenze said:
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, very informative read, Thank you,
So the 3GS apparently has a superior CPU in more ways than one, which I'm not really surprised about. I did mentioned that I did not like HTC's choice of CPUs...which they're still using in their newest devices. Many other devices are already using the Cortex A8, so if it is the case that HTC is losing out due to the CPU, then that doesn't bode well for their future phones.
jim_0068 said:
To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, everything you said is true. A jailbroken iPhone is a very nice thing and probably does well for tinkerers. In fact, the 3GS that my friend let me used was jailbroken too.
However, truthfully, installing apps that lets me do new things wasn't what I was really referring to before. Instead, I was largely referring to the changing of ROMs/OS. I believe the iPhone has made some progress running Linux, but nothing else as far as I can see. WM Phone has so many different ROMs available and progress has been made on running Linux (including Android) too. This allows for much more customization, in my opinion as you get the benefit of software-based customization combined with ROM/OS-based.
Besides, it's pretty fun to be running Windows Mobile 6.5 while everyone else is still using Windows Mobile 6.1.
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
My opinion is that in order to be a solid competitor, Microsoft needs to limit the hardware choices for their platform. HTC does a great job at making devices for Windows Mobile. Microsoft needs to pair up with them to make their own phone. With the new Zune HD coming out featuring the nVidia Tegra chipset, it would make a wonderful platform to build the next generation WM phone from. The thing is, it should be the only phone featuring WM 7 Professsional. It will enable Microsoft to fine tune WM to use every bit of the phone's capabilities, leaving nothing to be desired. Much like they do with their PC OS's, there can be several versions of the main OS with steps in capabilities. Their Zune HD phone should be the candidate for WM7 Ultimate, which would feature smooth transitions and speed.
Edit: Just saw the post above mine. I need to read more!
vijay555 said:
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
8525Smart said:
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think the only company that can actually create a truly direct competitor to Apple and iPhone is Microsoft...it's the name and not the product.....
Apple had a bad rep back then and now they are doing good.
It seems like Microsoft is tagged after Apple jumped the boat to success.
We'll just have to wait for Microsoft to adopt Apple's precedent.
With Microsoft directly creating their own phone and not just an OS, we might actually get a true iPhone killer. Though Microsoft may have to revamp the entire OS and create their own line of OS totally unrelated to Windows Mobile.
Ive been using HTC phones since forever.... Ive had the Canary, Tanager, Voyager, Hurricane, Polaris (Touch Cruise) and am currently using the Touch Diamond. Ive enjoyed Windows Mobile but never really took to TouchFlo3d. I liked Windows Mobile because I have CoPilot and used to do quite a bit of geocaching.
Now im up for contract renewal and soooo much has changed in the last two years.
Im wondering what the score is with windows mobile? Has it been overtaken by Android? What about my CoPilot, geocaching programs and Bejewelled Blitz game?
Im assuming the HTC HD2 is considered the best WM phone at the moment but should I be looking at Android phones.... if so, which one?
And how does the iphone fit in. I dont like the look of all though little boxes of "apps"! Im a minimalist kinda guy! Im considering an iphone because I have been forced into using a mac cos my partner has run off to uni to do a post grad course and taken the family laptop!
Any help of choosing between the HTC HD2, the android phones and the iphone would be great.
Here you can see what is considered the best device by XDA members:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5391877#post5391877
As for Android, I prefer to stay with WM, android is too young and immature for now, I´m sure in the future can be a good OS option, but not by now.
Just my opinion
Good luck,
p.d: Never consider yourself an old!!, as a Mexican saying says: Old? old the mountains and they are still green!
rikpotts said:
Im wondering what the score is with windows mobile? Has it been overtaken by Android?
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Click to collapse
That depends on whether you are normal, healthy human being or an extreme technology geek. The most important thing to understand about Windows Mobile is that when you first start up a WM phone, it really doesn't work very well. It can be made to work reasonably well, but it takes a great deal of tweaking to do it. If you're the sort of person who actively enjoys tweaking, hunting down applications and .cabs to customise the phone to make it behave in exactly the way you want, then WM is a good choice. If you simply want it to work, it's a terrible choice.
Android is already well ahead of WM in terms of usablity for normal people, but hasn't yet caught up in terms of programmability or customisability.
The iPhone is effectively two completely different devices in one, depending on whether or not you go through the "jail-breaking" procedure. (This is a bit like installing a cooked ROM on a WM phone, only rather less drastic and easier to reverse; like flashing custom ROMs it does void your warranty, though). Without jail-breaking the iPhone is very much a "black box" - you only do what Apple has chosen to let you do. That said, it's the best piece of user-interface design I've ever seen, beautifully intuitive, and it has far more applications than every other smartphone platform put together (and what's more they're all in one place so you can actually find them - WM apps are scattered all over the Internet with no catalogue).
By contrast, a jail-broken iPhone is as flexible as an Android phone, and very close to Windows Mobile.
If you don't want TouchFLO (a.k.a. Sense) then investing in a high-end HTC phone is probably a waste of money. You get the support of this website, and (in the case of the HD2) a capacitive screen, but neither is worth the price premium over rival devices - Sense UI is what you're paying for if you buy an HD2. Obvious WinMo equivalents are the Toshiba TG01, or the Acer NeoTouch. On the Android side you should check out the Google Nexus One, Motorola Droid, and Acer F1.
Many Thanks for the replies. I was worried my question didnt get to the point but the answers covered my confusion.
So windows mobile still has some life left in it yet!
I had no idea about where Android was up to... now I know.
"you only do what Apple has chosen to let you do."
This is what I feared. Despite flashing phones for a large portion of my spare time I dont actually like doing it. I agree with what you said about WM phone not working well out of the box but can be good if you spend a few days googling and messing about. My diamond is a hand me down from my partner cos she hated it... but like the look of my old orbit 2. I spent many weeks tuning that one. Ive just left the diamond as is..... except disabling TF3d (I have actually started to use it for the last 2 days only!)
I find the iPhone appealing, especially after reading that it has more application around for it. Plus I only have a couple of ibooks now. Ive even done away with the pc at work! (only cos I do the bookkeeping at home on the mac, its easier to throw it in the back of the car and take it with me!)
I know the like of high street banks etc are making "apps" for it but ive also waded my through WM Smartphone, 2003SE and WM6 applications for years. It sound iike the iphone has made good ground.
I think its gonna be a HD2. Though ill have a quick look at how people have customised the iphone. Ill bend arms in the call centres to get either one for free!
Once again, thanks for spending the time in answering my questions. You have saved me a long evening in front of the laptop!
Well, make sure you demo an iPhone before buying, and do some serious reading in some of the jail-break community forums. In my experience a good rule of thumb is: if you can't think of any specific reason not to buy an iPhone 3GS, you should buy one. By contrast, anyone who is any doubt about whether they want an HD2 or not should definitely not buy one; and I say that as an HD2 owner who has no intention of selling it. It's a great device for some, but its appeal is deep rather than broad. In my case the things I use it for most are web-browsing and video playback, and a big, hi-res screen helps a lot with both of those. Even there it was a close thing - Apple's "Safari" browser is superior to the HD2's Opera in several ways.
There's a recent survey from Gartner which found that Apple currently controls 99.4% of the smartphone app market.
Demo a couple of the high-end Android phones, too - HTC Hero and Motorola Milestone are good places to start. And try an HD2 before you buy as well - see whether or not the keyboard drives you nuts!
Shasarak said:
That depends on whether you are normal, healthy human being or an extreme technology geek. The most important thing to understand about Windows Mobile is that when you first start up a WM phone, it really doesn't work very well. It can be made to work reasonably well, but it takes a great deal of tweaking to do it.
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Click to collapse
IMO that's not exactly true. I had bought a Touch Diamond 2 in early 2009 and with the stock ROM it was awesome. I used it for couple months without facing any problems. After few months I switched to custom ROMs but only because I needed to have newer OS builds (6.5, 6.5.x) on my phone.
Android is so superior in few years? You better wait few years and see if Android is still running so smooth when supporting more than 5 different phones.... Probably you'll switch back to WM 8 then because it's supposed to run so stable.
I just went to the Apple Store in town for an iPhone demo only to be told they don't sell them, or have demo versions.
So I asked for the lead to plug my iBook into the telly. He gave me a DVI Macbook one. "no, I have an iBook"
"Sorry mate, you cant get em"
I said "yeah you can, £18.99 + del on the Apple Store website.
He clicked around on his iPhone for 5 mins until I gave up and found one myself in the shop.
I gave him my Visa card only to be told that they dont accept Visa Debit!
Im not surprised Apple stuff is so expensive.... they have to markup to cover the loss of sales for reasons similar to my first ever contact with Apple!
RAMMANN said:
Android is so superior in few years? You better wait few years and see if Android is still running so smooth when supporting more than 5 different phones.... Probably you'll switch back to WM 8 then because it's supposed to run so stable.
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Click to collapse
How exactly is any of this in any way connected to a purchase decision? Are we supposed to say "well, WinMo may not be very good, but there's a good reason why it's not very good (has to support so many different phones) so we should buy it anyway out of sympathy"? Or are we supposed to buy a WM6 phone now on the grounds that in three years time the next-but-one version of WinMo will, in your opinion be superior to the next-but-six version of Android? Even if your prediction turns out to be accurate, nothing you say here can possibly be relevant.
rikpotts said:
I just went to the Apple Store in town for an iPhone demo only to be told they don't sell them, or have demo versions.
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Ouch. Well, try a mobile phone shop. Here in London you'll find a demoable iPhone in O2 or Carphone Warehouse stores. Probably Orange and Vodafone too these days.
I would at least consider looking at Android handsets that are currently on the market. Windows Mobile is an alright OS, but Windows Mobile 6.x is on its way out, with WM7 coming in towards the end of this year, so you might not want to buy a WM device until WM7 ships, or you may get stuck with 6.x. I've used Android extensively through ports and emulators, and I can safely say that it's a very good mobile OS. Either a Windows Mobile or Android device would work fine, but I would recommend waiting until the end of the year if you want Windows Mobile. The best Android and Windows Mobile devices on the market are probably the Nexus One and HD2, respectively.
As for the iPhone, I don't really get what's so special about them. I own a first generation iPhone and a first generation iPod Touch, and while they're both nice devices, I wouldn't say they're the Jesusphone that everyone claims them to be. Maybe it's just because I like an open OS like Android (Linux kernel, open source) or WM (proprietary yet infinitely customizable), but the iPhone doesn't seem that great to me. And while Jailbreaking makes things a little more bearable, it still doesn't make the iPhone worth using to me
Shasarak said:
How exactly is any of this in any way connected to a purchase decision? Are we supposed to say "well, WinMo may not be very good, but there's a good reason why it's not very good (has to support so many different phones) so we should buy it anyway out of sympathy"? Or are we supposed to buy a WM6 phone now on the grounds that in three years time the next-but-one version of WinMo will, in your opinion be superior to the next-but-six version of Android? Even if your prediction turns out to be accurate, nothing you say here can possibly be relevant.
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Click to collapse
I'm not saying "WM may not be very good". I think it kicks ass. Honestly! I already ran Android on the emulator to check it out but I don't see anything special that I don't have with WM. And besides that on Android you can only code applications in Java despite the Linux kernel. I stick to my C/C++ and I see no f'kn reason to downgrade to Java just because of Google.
I think the best way is to go to the store and play a bit (like 15-30min) with the competing phones. I would suggest that you pay a bit more attention to HD2, iPhone 3GS and in march the Bravo will be out, if you can wait that long. I would also suggest the Nexus one, however you can't see before you buy, and people are reporting numerous problems. You can see the nexus in action on youtube.
What works for me, won't necessarily work for you, and vice versa.
Don't let the sales rep tell you that google maps is navigation, it's not.
Have in mind that iphone and some android devices don't support BT file transfer, if you use that.
If you like multitasking don't go for the iphone.Another "glitch" is that its browser doesn't support download.
If you use exchange, it works best on winmo and blackberry
If you use the phone as usb stick go for android or winmo.
There are of course other differences. It all depends on what you use and what you need.
For satnav winmo has the widest range of apps. However there are nice apps for android and iphone.
rikpotts said:
Ive been using HTC phones since forever.... Ive had the Canary, Tanager, Voyager, Hurricane, Polaris (Touch Cruise) and am currently using the Touch Diamond. Ive enjoyed Windows Mobile but never really took to TouchFlo3d. I liked Windows Mobile because I have CoPilot and used to do quite a bit of geocaching.
Now im up for contract renewal and soooo much has changed in the last two years.
Im wondering what the score is with windows mobile? Has it been overtaken by Android? What about my CoPilot, geocaching programs and Bejewelled Blitz game?
Im assuming the HTC HD2 is considered the best WM phone at the moment but should I be looking at Android phones.... if so, which one?
And how does the iphone fit in. I dont like the look of all though little boxes of "apps"! Im a minimalist kinda guy! Im considering an iphone because I have been forced into using a mac cos my partner has run off to uni to do a post grad course and taken the family laptop!
Any help of choosing between the HTC HD2, the android phones and the iphone would be great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wait for the 4th gen iphone, if you can't, i recommend you jailbroken iphone 3gs.
you'll fly, if you try iphone.
When I went to the Apple store and asked to look at the iPhone the first thing the chap said was "wait til mid 2010"
Thankyou for the great replies.
In the end....!! I got a Sony Ericsson Naite. And a laptop! Samsung N130.
I love my iBook but ive just enrolled with the OU to finish a couple of Uni quals I never actually finished and need windows. Plus I can synch my Diamond properly now. I run a shop on an ind est and have just setup a website and my orders come through to the phone. I need to synch.
Once again, many thanks for the time spent.
Rik