RyeBrye recently proved that multitouch is possible (though disabled) on the G1 and has created a short video using it in the fingerpaint app. He is working on other stuff, but it would be great if more ppl would work on this to get the wheels turning. Anyone who is interested should read his blog http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/
AWESOME!!!
Yeah, help would be appreciated
The proof of concept video uses an ugly hack to work around getting the events into the java framework properly - but with a little bit of work it should be possible to both get a functional stack built up, and also work on some patches to get proper multitouch into the android platform itself.
The multitouch being in android itself wouldn't benefit people who don't have hacked G1's - but being able to put stuff on the market that would make use of multitouch if it were available (and it woudl be on hacked G1's) would be nice.
First of all, I think hacks will come out soon for RC30+ devices just because there are a lot of ppl getting those now. Also I think that the more apps are "Multitouch only" the more ppl will beg for this feature. Im looking at it as "Build it and they will come" in reverse "Bring them and we will build it"
Related
Seeing all the buzz'nfuzz about the OpenGL capabillities of this phone,
I pledge in this thread to ask developers to write a small howto on OpenGL
programming for this device. Not gamers per definition, but demo's.
A "demo" means an application that shows the skill of the programmer, and the performance of the device.
Looking at the work of vanKurt with his "tea-app"
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=588650
and other openGL projects , I wonder if we can re-live the 80's in highres this time, hence,
I vote to start a demo competition !
Would like to hear from the pro's, the amateurs and the users if there's
any momentum to be gained here.
EDIT : poll question should read: "you are <20 years old"
I'm thinking this might be pretty cool... I have a base set up for OpenGLES 1 programs that I can release the code for if people want?
It's bloody slow on the HD2, so I'll see if I can make it work using a different setup, but it is at least a base for people to work from.
That would definately be interesting. The sad thing is: so far I only developed OpenGL ES 1.0 stuff. And for reasons I don't understand it all runs slow as hell on my HD2 (as mentioned above).
Thus I'm a little stuck at the moment. I have no clue how to migrate the code to OpenGL ES 2.0 (which is hopefully the solution???), so right now I can't contribute anything running > 10 FPS
Strangly there are some 3D game demos (XTRACT, Experiment 13, Electopia) which run absolutely smooth on the HD2. So as soon as this "miracle" is resolved we can get started....
OK let's jumpstart
If you both could post your work and your devsuite tools we can try and see if we can get started. Having a few users try, fail, ask and succeed seems a good idea.
Thanks for helping out.
VanKurt said:
That would definately be interesting. The sad thing is: so far I only developed OpenGL ES 1.0 stuff. And for reasons I don't understand it all runs slow as hell on my HD2 (as mentioned above).
Thus I'm a little stuck at the moment. I have no clue how to migrate the code to OpenGL ES 2.0 (which is hopefully the solution???), so right now I can't contribute anything running > 10 FPS
Strangly there are some 3D game demos (XTRACT, Experiment 13, Electopia) which run absolutely smooth on the HD2. So as soon as this "miracle" is resolved we can get started....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Experiment 13 is using OpenGLES1, not 2, as is Manila, so clearly the hardware and drivers are up to it...
It might be worth having a look at the Silvermoon UI code over at codeplex. It was written using OpenGL and is open source, so could prove useful to people.
evorgevol said:
It might be worth having a look at the Silvermoon UI code over at codeplex. It was written using OpenGL and is open source, so could prove useful to people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's also very smooth... Will take a lot at the source code and try and work out why...
Will also film it when I can get a camera, and do a comparison with a Diamond and a few other applications...
Hi guys
I've tried getting the 3 games mentioned above ... but can't ... they've either been pulled from the XDA threads or they are on rapidshare which says I can't download because I'm downloading something already ... and I've not downloaded anything from it for months.
Cheers
Paul.
Has anyone tried OpenTK (Open Toolkit). Using their OpenGL ES bindings?
Or is pure c++ the way forward?
It's a great idea! I won't be joining myself though, as for all my driver patches for various platforms and such, I still struggle with drawing a rotating triangle
(I really should get into that, but time is always a restricting factor)
Looking forward to what you guys can come up with!
General WP7 question
Im an Android user at present, rooted Desire (gingerbread)
Very much liked the U.I of WP7 when having a quick 5 min' play in an o2 shop
ive not ruled out WP7 for my next phone but know nothing about the state of current Modding for the Devices
is Unlocking the same as Rooting ? ie Custom Roms, rooted only apps, framework tweaks etc
if not, how is it different? what does it offer ?
Sorry for the potentialy Dumbarse question but im not down with any WP7 info at present
Cheers
we don't have an unlock
the unlock refers to the ability to sideload programs and not go through windows marketplace using a windeveloper hack from chevron...
The unlock is not related to custom roms - imho you really don't need them nearly as much on windows phone 7. One thing you have to realize about custom roms is that while you're given an os on a device, it doesn't work out of the box. Both windows mobile and android suffered from this and a custom rom was necessary to just get some basic things to function more smoothly to create a better experience.
Windows phone deviates from that because all you have to do is turn it on and most of the UX/UI components work out of the box and creates an unbelievable experience. So at the current state, the only custom rom I have seen is on the hd7 and mozart, and those are rom transplants by ansar - not completely the same as a custom rom.
If you think you need a custom rom to live by, don't get windows phone. But if you truly want to try an OS that just works and works well, I suggest testing the device. You won't go back to android after you test the device.
Great respose
thanks for the info
For sure, i do love my Android but i find that i keep on changing stuff for not much other reason than i just can.
As mentioned, i was indeed impressed with the UI on the phone i tried...if only briefly
its a shame i couldnt get one to trial for a month to see how i got along with it, thats life i guess
i might well take the plunge on WP7 as my current contract runs out at the end of march
One or two last thing to anybody that cares to respond
so stuff like email and SMS/MMS, are you locked in to using the Out of the box app/client or are there others available in the Market ? ....indeed, you might not need to use anything different form the preloaded stuff, im just curious
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
thanks for the above answer again
cheers
Chris
InspectorFrost said:
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, at the moment there is only the default built in app for this. However, in a similar vein to the above; there just isn't a need either. The keyboard is awesome (far better than any other - be it Windows Mobile or Android - I've tried) and it's a simple threaded SMS system.
I had Android on my HD2 (so admittedly not a native build). The only things I miss are a couple of the apps (but I can live without them and they'll probably end up having sister apps on WP7 eventually) and the USB functionality (but I know plenty of people here will argue with me over that). Am I happy? Yes! (Small grumble about the update situation, but it's a thousand times better than WM or Android).
Casey
Thanks, Man
the preinstalled sms manager for wp7 has suited my needs really well. It sms...I can see smilies. It's threaded. That's all I really need for my interests.
Now as far as migrating from android, I did but I didn't like android so much. I used it for smsing but that was about it. Android has a plethora of programs to suit user interests, but by in large, many just. plain. suck.
That's not to say that wp7 programs suck, because some do. But in terms of productivity, I found a bit more with windows phone. I think the only program I really REALLY miss is skyscape because I am a clinical psych student and I use that on a daily basis. Adjusting to no skyscape is horrible
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I moved from android, and while I do miss some functionality (that will come in time with updates), overall I'm very happy. The UI is vastly superior, and feels like a more polished professional product as opposed to one stitched together, if that makes sense. Android was very functional, but never felt totally complete in its design. This led to a less than great overall interaction experience. But I will reiterate; the functionality/settings options are VERY BASIC SO FAR.
wp7 not only feels more solid, but you can see the quality of app design already far surpass anything on Android. The way you flow through information is quite refreshing to the linear/up-down style based on computer desktops we are used to. Email & Music player are also bar none on mobile platforms in my opinion. Still a few things need to be added for outlook support, but overall I am very impressed with these two features.
You will also notice that its the only other platform with the responsiveness that iOS has. Feels very fluid, and there is no delay in pinch to zoom features on maps/browser ect. The voice commands are very good as well (voice to open apps, browse, call people ect).
Social integration of Facebook (and twitter come Mango update later this year) is top notch. No other platform has anything like this and its really handy. I don't even use Facebook much, but I thoroughly enjoy how easy it is to catch up on people's doings and get back to more important tasks.
Things I miss are more in depth functionality and settings choices. I miss the official google voice app, custom sms/mms apps & IM apps. I also miss smart dialing, which most smart phones come with as standard. Smart dialing will no doubt be incorporated in an update, but this should have been done from the get go imo. Once we get socket support later this year, IM and sms app replacements will come. Most of the needed apps are available, from shazam to netflix to news apps to flixster to translators ect. The google voice and smart dialing features are the big ones for me. GoVoice works pretty good for Google Voice access, but since no socket support yet, the notifications have to be pushed from a 3rd party server.
There are more apps available on Android, but just like when I was on Android and the iPhone had more apps, thats not all that matters. There are some you will miss, but I can do without most of them until more developers come over the wp7.
As far as games go, the quality is beyond both Android and the iPhone in my opinion. However, there aren't nearly as many available (yet). You are seeing more and more big time developers either making, or announcing movement over the wp7 though so this will quickly change. The quality of the xbox live games is great, and the platform is definitely designed to also be a future gaming powerhouse. I can't wait till I can control my windows media center and xbox/kinect with my phone.
wp7 is in its early stages so just be ready to accept that the tinkering you are used to will be much more limited here, as will the overall control options you have. But you will quickly learn that the base structure of this platform is beyond what the others deliver (of coarse whether you like the UI is preference), and as this platform matures, the quality of the interface & app development and user interaction will be much more pleasant than what Android offered(s).
As far as unlocking, you CAN still unlock with the chevron program. This allows you to tinker with the registry to change the look/colors of the UI, control of volumes ect and of coarse enables things like file managers & custom ringtones. Head to www.touchxperience.com to see what the main phone manager for unlocked phones is up to.
For day to day use, my wp7 is more appealing to me (even with some missing functionality). Its hard to go back to the style of layout that iOS, Android ect all have in common; although I do keep my N1 around for times when I need the hotspot feature.
dtboos said:
Social integration of Facebook (and twitter come NoDo update in the next week) is top notch. No other platform has anything like this and its really handy. I don't even use Facebook much, but I thoroughly enjoy how easy it is to catch up on people's doings and get back to more important tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just a correction here, twitter integration is coming in the mango update, not the NoDo update.
The Gate Keeper said:
just a correction here, twitter integration is coming in the mango update, not the NoDo update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stand corrected.
@dtboos
Great post, thank you
All the above sounds like stuff i can deal with
Shazam...a quality app that i use tons, glad thats there
facebook im not on so im not bothered with that, and as for Mail/sms clients, i can live with stock so long as the work well
The Major sticking point at the moment for me (having dug around the net a little) is the API limitations that dont seem to allow for Messengers, im a big fan of Whatsapp and (out of choice) wouldnt really wanna be without it.
Hope MS are going to amend this in the (very) near future, as im sure this will persuade a raft of people on to their platform
Again, thanks for the above posts, most informative
Cheers
Chris
InspectorFrost said:
All the above sounds like stuff i can deal with
Shazam...a quality app that i use tons, glad thats there
facebook im not on so im not bothered with that, and as for Mail/sms clients, i can live with stock so long as the work well
The Major sticking point at the moment for me (having dug around the net a little) is the API limitations that dont seem to allow for Messengers, im a big fan of Whatsapp and (out of choice) wouldnt really wanna be without it.
Hope MS are going to amend this in the (very) near future, as im sure this will persuade a raft of people on to their platform
Again, thanks for the above posts, most informative
Cheers
Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have a link available right now, but I remember an interview with one of the head developers on wp7 saying that socket support is #2 or 3 on the developer requested features list, and they will definitely be implementing this sooner rather than later.
They know socket support is wanted and needed, and with that will come IM clients ect.
yea, i believe we will be hearing about socket support at the MIX 2011 conference.
As far as my stock quantum goes, I really can't complain about wp7. Great features, flows great, everything I could ask of a marketplace based OS. I got the phone knowing it would be locked down, but hoping the possibilities would grow. I do miss the seemingly endless capabilities wm offered though. Access to all resources, running native apps without the need to sideload.
I noticed a month or so ago a few guys in the forum were discovering ways to gain higher priveledges within WP7 and with the little knowledge my noob self has, have looked into the differences between wm6 and wp7, new kernel, beeing sandboxed and whatnot. And im curious, are we waiting for m$'s release of limited native code execution to oem's to be exploited, or is there an update in the privilege adventure?
With the amount of wp7 devices released and soon to be, I doubt I can look forward to an exploited bootloader to run a custom rom on my first gen wp7 quantum (such as a tricked out wp7 or possibly wm support...?), but a ported version of haret to run xdandroid as I did on my diamond would be exceptional, and from what I understand not too impossible considering wp7 uses ce7 (not sure if there's backward compatibility for ce6 though). We would just need a new UI, and an understanding of the device specific hardware for support in android...?
Where do we stand on any of these options, are they likely or if so, nearing?
I can understand your frustration with the restrictions on WP7 but for most scenarios, access to native APIs isn't that essential in my opinion (and I have been developing on WM6 myself). WP7 uses WinCE 6.0 R3 and not CE7. The Windows Phone team do recognise that they have been quite strict with the exposed APIs and I am sure that was a combination of fear of what developers write (in terms of crashing your phone) and work need to be done with Silverlight for WP. Mango brings new low level functionality and should be made available soon - Sockets been the first that comes up in my mind. Is something wrong with sandbox solutions? I believe not
For any other reasons I probably wouldn't have much to say on the subject, but I've always been one to tinker with my Xbox, psp, router, anything fun. If I can get more functionality out of it, I look for a way. Unfortunately I am not skilled enough to make it happen, so I look upon the gurus. In this case I consider dualbooting wm or even starting android from within the current OS as expanding possibilities. Which is why I look for answers to my question. Any answers?
Has anyone had success with an app for the GT6210 I/R that is teachable? The included Peel app is over the top - it can't learn I/R codes and wants a data connection ...
I'm somewhat familiar with irdroid and LIRC but would like to see something use the built-in hardware.
I don't think we're going to see anything until there are a lot more devices with built in blasters. I agree - peel is kind of a waste. I use an xbox with windows media center, and its inability to learn is depressing.
I'd love to see logitech sell a harmony app that would turn our tab into a harmony one, but I just don't think there are enough devices like ours to make the r&d worth it just yet.
All that is to say - I haven't found anything great either.
So in this thread it tells you how to install pc operating systems like windows and linux on the Evo 3D.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459153
This, is freaking awesome. This one is a big breakthrough.
----
Here is the thread in the Nook Color forums for ubuntu on the device:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1055954
----
These two threads are native installs, not using some client to access the installation, the device itself is the client as it should be.
This is not some chrooted virtual OS simulation, but the real deal installed to the device.
----
In the back of my mind i've wanted to play with ubuntu installed on the MT4GS, but not a virtual installation I want it installed and running on the device natively.
I definitely don't have the time to do this and a lot i'm trying to do around here even if I wasn't in my busy season for work.
Dropping this information so I can find it later when I do get to trying to get ubuntu (and now windows XP looks like a possibility) installed on this device.
If anyone else feels like looking into this, here's a good place to start. If anyone comes across any other projects that are the real deal and not virtual installs please post links here.
Have fun!
Blue6IX said:
So in this thread it tells you how to install pc operating systems like windows and linux on the Evo 3D.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459153
This, is freaking awesome. This one is a big breakthrough.
----
Here is the thread in the Nook Color forums for ubuntu on the device:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1055954
----
These two threads are native installs, not using some client to access the installation, the device itself is the client as it should be.
This is not some chrooted virtual OS simulation, but the real deal installed to the device.
----
In the back of my mind i've wanted to play with ubuntu installed on the MT4GS, but not a virtual installation I want it installed and running on the device natively.
I definitely don't have the time to do this and a lot i'm trying to do around here even if I wasn't in my busy season for work.
Dropping this information so I can find it later when I do get to trying to get ubuntu (and now windows XP looks like a possibility) installed on this device.
If anyone else feels like looking into this, here's a good place to start. If anyone comes across any other projects that are the real deal and not virtual installs please post links here.
Have fun!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regardless of what impression you may have, it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to run MSWin on ARM hardware natively. The reason for this is that MSWin is x86 and ARM is... ARM. The approach used in the first link is to use BOCHS (pronounced "Box"), which is a VIRTUAL HARDWARE EMULATOR. It requires a host operating system to be functioning in the background, in this case Linux.
As for Ubuntu... well sure. No problem. Its Linux and the phone runs Linux. Not that big of a stretch to replace the Android parts with GNU.
Note that NONE of this is any kind of "great breakthrough". Bochs has been around for a VERY long time. First OPEN SOURCED in early 2000. Yeah, 12 years ago. As for Ubuntu... well I suppose that the main reason that most people aren't making a native android replacement out of ubuntu, is that not many people are all that interested in it. Cute in theory, but not practical.
What would be a more worthy project would be to upgrade android to GNU libraries and utilities. This would afford us an actually USEFUL balance between the two. Also the ability to run X *through* android without having to do stupid things like VNC. Have the proper interface ***AS AN ANDROID APPLICATION***, leaving Android to work (i.e., phone calls, etc.) while simultaneously offering the standard Linux applications.
My thought though, is that this is becoming less and less important. Firefox is on Android now, the Document foundation has announced LibreOffice for Android -- supposed to be by late 2012 to early 2013... GIMP has no place on Android... That certainly covers the basics.
Appreciate the post. I didn't have time to dig into it too deeply, so took it at face value for the impression I got. Happened to come across it in passing and didn't want to lose track of something vital to the future dev of a project like this on the doubleshot. (but definitely this doesn't belong in the dev section at this time - just clutter there.)
I was hoping people would add to it, especially the way you have, who had more of an understanding of what's going on there - I didn't realize that it was a virtual environment for the windows stuff, but it did seem to good to be true.
Even if no one responded I figured the thread would get pushed down out of the way, but still be here when I got the time to come back to it.
----
My reason for running native linux on the device itself is to be able to use the Android SDK and tools without needing a computer to do so. I have 2 of these phones and a Nook Color. The NC has USB host support, so I could plug the doubleshot into it without frying either device. (yes, i'm blending android and linux concepts here - but usb host support in android shows that it's capable of doing it)
Even from one doubleshot to the other I could use wifi adb for a lot of stuff without plugging them into each other through USB and frying the phones. So that would be a victory as well.
The lack of a hardware charging circuit in the doubleshot makes the worry of frying the phones a big deal, power transfer through USB is a big hurdle to jump in management.
Beyond that - the doubleshot is powerful enough on hardware specs to be able to compile a kernel, but that's not gonna happen through a virtual linux install because the overhead is too much. A native install might just be able to do it though. Won't know until I try, but it's worth the work to get to the point of trying, even if it doesn't work out.
The Nook Color probably won't be able to compile a kernel - it's asking too much from a device not really able to handle that.
Getting what I mentioned above to work would mean I could do all my dev work with what fits in my pocket, and let me keep working wherever I am.
I do like the idea of an app to work with this through Android itself - but I don't see how I could use the SDk and variety of user-created tools without a native linux install. Worth pursuing either way though.
If anyone has anything to add, i'd be welcome to hear it. Just understand this is not a project i'm working on or actively pursuing right now - but fully intend to down the line.
Actually blue. There is a thread somewhere that has a step by step on installing ubuntu on gingerbread. I meant to add it when I added the backtrack link. For some reason I didn't, I probably forgot, I actually think the link for it is in the backtrack thread in the sticky.
If I do find it ill let you know.
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