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About to get a Touch Pro, but... (some questions)

I plan to buy a Touch pro, but I have a few concerns.
I spent hours reading the forums here, but I still would like to ask a couple of questions :
(BTW, I currently own an XDA IIi)
- the screen size : I am used to my 3.5" XDA IIi screen, and I don't know if I will really miss the size despite the improved resolution on TP. What do you think of the Touch Pro screen ? Is it OK for browsing? games?
- Windows Mobile 7 : I know it's a bit early to talk about upgrading to WM 7.0 but if I buy TP, I'll have to keep it for 3 years (just as I did with my XDAIIi). I know it's highly improbable that HTC releases an official update but what about unofficial roms here? I lived a true nightmare with my XDAIIi, which is BTW a very good PPC, but the lack of WM updates killed the device as an increasing number of applications won't run on WM2003SE.
Is it true that WM 7.0 will require multitouch screens?
- Google Android : there's a working version on Kaiser. Is there any chance Android will be ported to TP?
- Community size : I am surprised by the small community size on the Raphael forums. Well, it ain't very small but it's way smaller than Diamond's or Kaiser's for instance ! Only a few cooked ROMs (compared to Diamond again), many "chiefs" were supposed to buy the TP, but they still didn't and with the announcement of Touch HD, I'm afraid they won't ! I hope I'm wrong, though !
- Issues and bugs : I know there will be bugs, but is the device "more buggy" than the previous HTC models?
P.S. I thought about getting a Diamond but the lack of microSD and the 900 mAh battery are unacceptable for me. Moreover, the keyboard and the TV-out are certainly a plus !
I also cannot wait for Touch HD (which seems pretty decent ) simply because there are no HTC devices in my place, and my only chance to get one is during my travel to Dubai in October !

I plan to buy a Touch pro, but I have a few concerns.
I spent hours reading the forums here, but I still would like to ask a couple of questions :
(BTW, I currently own an XDA IIi)
- the screen size : I am used to my 3.5" XDA IIi screen, and I don't know if I will really miss the size despite the improved resolution on TP. What do you think of the Touch Pro screen ? Is it OK for browsing? games?
It's great, the resolution makes it look so much nicer. Don't know if I'd watch a full movie on it, then again I wouldn't watch a full movie on an iPhone, I don't like staring at sub-5-inch screens for 3 hours.
- Windows Mobile 7 : I know it's a bit early to talk about upgrading to WM 7.0 but if I buy TP, I'll have to keep it for 3 years (just as I did with my XDAIIi). I know it's highly improbable that HTC releases an official update but what about unofficial roms here? I lived a true nightmare with my XDAIIi, which is BTW a very good PPC, but the lack of WM updates killed the device as an increasing number of applications won't run on WM2003SE.
Is it true that WM 7.0 will require multitouch screens?
Multi-touch is all in the software (I thought?), same screen hardware... But there's no way to know what it will require or support yet.
- Google Android : there's a working version on Kaiser. Is there any chance Android will be ported to TP?
I'd give it a 90% chance that eventually we'll have it happen. It's even on devices like the Blue Angel.
- Community size : I am surprised by the small community size on the Raphael forums. Well, it ain't very small but it's way smaller than Diamond's or Kaiser's for instance ! Only a few cooked ROMs (compared to Diamond again), many "chiefs" were supposed to buy the TP, but they still didn't and with the announcement of Touch HD, I'm afraid they won't ! I hope I'm wrong, though !
It's more expensive than the Diamond, it hasn't even been released on the US by ANY carrier, I wouldn't worry about the amount of developers out there... Once the prices go down with contracts here in the states you'll see a lot more. (Think of how many people in the Kaiser section bought it for $299 with AT&T)
- Issues and bugs : I know there will be bugs, but is the device "more buggy" than the previous HTC models?
Meh, I didn't see many bugs on my AT&T version at all, but the HTC ROM is slow as hell so I've been told. I'm sure ROM updates in the future will speed it up, the Sprint version looks quite fast as well.
P.S. I thought about getting a Diamond but the lack of microSD and the 900 mAh battery are unacceptable for me. Moreover, the keyboard and the TV-out are certainly a plus !
Agreed, no way 4GB fixed storage is enough (Garmin Mobile XT maps of North America is like 3.75 GB alone!)
I also cannot wait for Touch HD (which seems pretty decent ) simply because there are no HTC devices in my place, and my only chance to get one is during my travel to Dubai in October !
Keep in mind, the Touch HD won't have a keyboard... Quite a setback.
Hope I've helped, any more questions, ask away.

seether said:
I plan to buy a Touch pro, but I have a few concerns.
I spent hours reading the forums here, but I still would like to ask a couple of questions :....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the screen size just a compromise between size and usability. Since it's a VGA screen you will probably get almost the same screen estate as with your current PDA.
Windows 7, will probably find it's way on Touch Pro. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Multitouch is not based in software, but in Hardware. A phone either has Multitouch either doesn’t. You can't install multitouch... But again, I wouldn't worry about it. Windows 7 doesn't require Multitouch, but they support it.
Google Android will probably find its way on TP soon. If it can run on a Kaiser, it can run on a TP soon.
As for the community size, it will grow. Besides, except ROMS everything else (Themes, Apps, etc) are shared with the Diamond developers.
The device is definitely less buggy than any older HTC model. It works like a charm, right out the box. Any issue that you will face, it will be fixed with a search in the forum...
Finally (It was a lengthy post this one...), Touch HD is actually scheduled for October. So you might get lucky with your visit in Dubai...
Good luck with your choice mate... Hopefully I helped a bit.

Just a small comment about touch screens...
Multitouch screens are COMPLETELY different from single touch ones.
Multitouch requires capacitive screens (just like the Iphone)... these work like a notebook touchpad for example... You have to use your own bare fingers to use those.
Cheers

marios96 said:
Windows 7, will probably find it's way on Touch Pro. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Multitouch is not based in software, but in Hardware. A phone either has Multitouch either doesn’t. You can't install multitouch... But again, I wouldn't worry about it. Windows 7 doesn't require Multitouch, but they support it.
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Click to collapse
It seems I wasn't fast enough to answer

Thank you for your quick and thorough replies
As for the HD, no keyboard is a drawback but I like the screen If I find it in Dubai (I'll be there till October, 30th), I may buy it (not sure though, it depends on the price, the initial reviews etc...)

marios96 said:
The device is definitely not less buggy than any older HTC model. It works like a charm, right out the box. Any issue that you will face, it will be fixed with a search in the forum...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there's a typo here ! I think you meant : "not more buggy"

seether said:
I think there's a typo here ! I think you meant : "not more buggy"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes! I have to correct that...

marios96 said:
Finally (It was a lengthy post this one...), Touch HD is actually scheduled for October. So you might get lucky with your visit in Dubai...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source plz? I haven't heard anything about a Touch HD release.

Thundarr The Barbarian said:
Source plz? I haven't heard anything about a Touch HD release.
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Click to collapse
I read somewhere it will be in November. Nonetheless, there's the Gitex electronics trade show in Dubai in late October (a great one apparently). It might be an opportunity for HTC to launch the device !

Thundarr The Barbarian said:
Source plz? I haven't heard anything about a Touch HD release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the sites talk about a Christmas release. Sure Christmas is in December, but holiday period starts from early November.
I have to admit that I was a bit optimistic when mentioning October! But the pictures and videos we see reveal a product very close to production... We also have October as the month that HTC will release Touch Viva and 3G...

Blackstone Or ...

Well until recently I was certain that I would get myself a Blackstone, however I ha to wait till I was 18. However, MWC has just been and although there isn't much that would make me want to think about not going for the HD, there is the Stantum Multitouch although I don't suppose anything will support it very soon.
The thing is my current phone has just run out of credit so I need to make the decision now. Is it worth waiting another month and top up or is it worth taking the plunge?
ERM, thought I had posted this in Blackstone forum.

I have a blackstone myself. It's a great device, although one new device at the MWC has made my mouth water again .
Wait for the Samsung Omnia HD! Comparing the Blackstone to it makes the Touch ''HD'' look like a wannabe version of a hd device. o.o (which it is, kind of.)

antrak said:
I have a blackstone myself. It's a great device, although one new device at the MWC has made my mouth water again .
Wait for the Samsung Omnia HD! Comparing the Blackstone to it makes the Touch ''HD'' look like a wannabe version of a hd device. o.o (which it is, kind of.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only annoying thing its Symbian, I think I would rather have a WinMO even though I've never owned a winMO.

Get the blackstone...
If u'r on usa at&t, get the testra HD for 3G...

As my dera friend galaxys says HD
Or perhaps to wait for Touch Pro II?...

Is the touch pro II a step up in terms of hardware at all though? Or will it just be Touch HD with keyboard and new version of TF3D?
I know this quetion has been asked a lot, but what are the chances that a .cab file will be released for the new TF3D soon?

Win 6.5 obsolete already?

See for yourself.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/160173/windows_mobile_7.html?tk=rss_news

I think WM6.5 will be like Windows Me was, an interim release between two larger releases.
WM6 was a big release, WM6.1 was a small release, WM6.5 is a little bigger, but will still be considered a small release until WM7 comes.
Hopefully WM7 will equal how XP was on the PC. XP/2000 was/is considered to be the best OS MS has released by many.

mindfrost82 said:
I think WM6.5 will be like Windows Me was, an interim release between two larger releases.
WM6 was a big release, WM6.1 was a small release, WM6.5 is a little bigger, but will still be considered a small release until WM7 comes.
Hopefully WM7 will equal how XP was on the PC. XP/2000 was/is considered to be the best OS MS has released by many.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree entirely. The language of the article also indicated that the author feels that 6.5 will be coming out late 2009, and 7 will be coming out in early 2010. Is there anything that supports this belief?

I wonder if Microsoft publically gave the announcemnt to him that 6.5 won't work on our devices to sell new devices? Microsoft knows we have running beta's of it now.
And 6.5 is a joke. And according to leaked information about 7, with the exceptions of cool gestures, isn't by any means a huge leap in mobile technology. The only way to really promote this product is to advertise the hell out of it. I have finally seen some AT&T fuze commercials. But what makes a raph really stand out at the store is tflo3d not winmo. Microsoft needs to polish this terd, put it in a pretty basket, put it on a device that is crazy functional right out of the box and sell it after rebates for $199 with 16 gigs of storage, sd expansion, wifi, gps, exchange support, and a god damn qwerty hardware keyboard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile#Windows_Mobile_6.5

Sweeny Russ said:
I wonder if Microsoft publically gave the announcemnt to him that 6.5 won't work on our devices to sell new devices? Microsoft knows we have running beta's of it now.
And 6.5 is a joke. And according to leaked information about 7, with the exceptions of cool gestures, isn't by any means a huge leap in mobile technology. The only way to really promote this product is to advertise the hell out of it. I have finally seen some AT&T fuze commercials. But what makes a raph really stand out at the store is tflo3d not winmo. Microsoft needs to polish this terd, put it in a pretty basket, put it on a device that is crazy functional right out of the box and sell it after rebates for $199 with 16 gigs of storage, sd expansion, wifi, gps, exchange support, and a god damn qwerty hardware keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you to a certain extent. But you must realize that WINMO is just the operating system. HTC Samsung ETC. is the device maker, so in the end the maker is the one responsible for what the device has as far as hardware.

I agree with you to a certain extent. A set contract and reduced price of software would ultimately determine the costs of the devices themselves, whether it be from a 3rd party device manufacturer or not. There are many pc manufacturing companies who do this with microsoft now. But maybe a microsoft proprietary phone is in the makings in the years to come (ha, ha). Like an xbox mixed with a phone. Maybe an XPhone. Super gamining device with portability and business functionality. I can only dream.

The article says that current phones will be unable to support 6.5. Why exactly is that? I find it hard to believe that at the very least, the raphael wouldn't be capable of running it. I find it more likely that Microsoft is just feeding everyone a load of crap, to get them to buy a new phone, but that the new OS will work just fine on the TP/Fuze etc.

More news about WM 6.5 and 7
http://www.1800pocketpc.com/2009/03/02/windows-mobile-65-to-be-obsolete-soon-after-its-released.html

Sweeny Russ said:
I wonder if Microsoft publically gave the announcemnt to him that 6.5 won't work on our devices to sell new devices? Microsoft knows we have running beta's of it now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, I love how they just keep perpetuating that myth. Feed it to all the unknowing new Fuze/TP owners to get more money out of them this fall.
I will say, I honestly don't have high hopes for our Raphs running WM7 though.

Don't doubt it!!
The best developers here are broke. Look we have android running on titans. Really I don't doubt that once Microsoft releases the sdk it will be ported. Supposedly, the gestures require input from the camera and g-sensor and we have both. I'm not sweating it. Not to mention I'm usually upgrading at a year to year and a half anyway.

Sweeny Russ said:
The best developers here are broke. Look we have android running on titans. Really I don't doubt that once Microsoft releases the sdk it will be ported. Supposedly, the gestures require input from the camera and g-sensor and we have both. I'm not sweating it. Not to mention I'm usually upgrading at a year to year and a half anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh....the best developers where? The best developers I know are far from broke.
Personally, from what I've read about 6.5 and what I've seen in the hacked systems on my Tilt, I couldn't care less about it. It offers little beyond 6.1 and I really don't like the honeycomb thing. Sure it might be more efficient but it still looks like crap.
That having been said, I plan on getting a TP2 when it's available in the states for less than a small fortune. If it comes with 6.5, fine, but I'm not losing sleep over any aspect of 6.5. It's obsolete? Ok, whatever. It's not obsolete? Ok, whatever. The real question is who is going to be able to afford a new pda phone six months from now, not what system it's going to run.

Which Phone should i get?

Yea i know there are alot of these threads so heres another.
My current phone the G1 is starting to break down so im looking for a new phone. I'm considering the Touch Pro2, Touch HD, Hero, and the Toshiba TG01. I have never used a windows mobile device before with the G1 being my first by HTC. I'm willing to try it as long as it has been prettied up some(TouchFlo or Stripes).
If you have either the Touch Pro2 or the Touch HD can you give me your experiences with them.

HTC in my experience is awefull build quality. After owning four diferent models I have vowed never to own one again. Shame really, apart from the poor camera selection they are designed really well ..... just a shame they fall to bits.
Out of your list, would have to be TG01.
Have you looked at the new Omnia II's? (not the Omnia HD) Theres a full on Iphone/HD lookie-likely and two keyboard models, one a TP2 type and one a blackberry type.
Don't forget the Acer M900 (which is what I currently use) and the more pocket friendly F900.

Touch Pro 2 definetly
Because keyboard is a must for me!
Merge threads: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=4181275#post4181275

wizern23 said:
Yea i know there are alot of these threads so heres another.
My current phone the G1 is starting to break down so im looking for a new phone. I'm considering the Touch Pro2, Touch HD, Hero, and the Toshiba TG01. I have never used a windows mobile device before with the G1 being my first by HTC. I'm willing to try it as long as it has been prettied up some(TouchFlo or Stripes).
If you have either the Touch Pro2 or the Touch HD can you give me your experiences with them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had windows mobile and even though preference is a matter of perspective.... windows might be a step in the wrong direction. Back when I had it windows was ahead of its time... but now it seems like its standing still ... like its been stagnant for the last 3 yrs I haven't seen any major differences...from android to winmo is going Back to resistive touch screens... with not so finger friendly gestures because the screens tend to not pick up on the motion... I would really love to see MS step it up and release a new os or 7.0 which I hope makes a major difference. Dont get me wrong for business i would only use winmo or BB... but at this point Android just seems like a wiser choice... its not an ancient OS that will probably bore you quickly. All the phones sound great ... if you want break down and comparisons then go to infosyncworld.com ... they rate the phones for you.

As somebody who's an advocate of Windows Mobile, my honest opinion is that now isn't a good time to buy a WinMo phone at all, especially not for the first time. The only people I would recommend the current batch of WM phones to are people who already use WM, don't want to learn a different system, and REALLY need a new device.
Here's why: Windows Mobile 6 has a real learning curve, and coming from Android you're probably going to find yourself frustrated at a lot of the inconsistencies and complications. Further, WM7 is already on the horizon and I think we'll be getting our first real peeks at it before the year is out. It should be a massive, fundamental overhaul to the way WM works. There's a lot of unanswered questions right now, ESPECIALLY whether WM7 apps will work on WM6 devices and whether it will be possible to upgrade any current WM6 or 6.5 devices to 7. If not, it's possible that application support for WM6 devices might grind to a halt within a year.
If I were in your boots, I'd try to hold on to that G1 as long as you can. By October or November, I think we'll have a better view of the future of WM and it'll be easier to see whether WM will serve your needs going forward.
Now, all this is completely moot if you're rolling in enough dough to just buy a new phone whenever you feel like it. If so, feel free to buy whatever you like.

Wouldn't all of these phones be able to upgrade to winmo 7 anyway. I really dont care about having to learn how to use windows mobile. Im more interested in the devices themself. My main concern is switching to a device with out a keyboard.

wizern23 said:
Wouldn't all of these phones be able to upgrade to winmo 7 anyway. \\
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that's the problem: we just don't know yet. A lot of people here seem to take it for granted that WM7 will be as "open" as WM6 in terms of porting and the like, but comments from MS make me a lot less confident -- it sounds like WM7 might have much more specific hardware requirements that will keep it from being run on older models. It's POSSIBLE WM7 will be able to be put on, say, a Touch Pro 2, but it's not a foregone conclusion.
All signs point to WM7 being a major upgrade (keep in mind that WM7 has been in development since 6.1 dropped if not longer), and I think it's going to be really disappointing to be stuck with 6.5 once 7 hits.
But if you're looking to roll the dice, the Touch Pro 2 looks like a great phone UNLESS you want to use it as a media player. Lack of a 3.5mm jack is a serious weakness there.

yea the 3.5mm jack is a necessity b/c i planned on getting the Motorola S9s or something along that line to use because all of those except the hero are huge or heavy

I personally don’t believe that WM7 will be ready early 2010. It might take until 2011 that we see any WM7device.
TP2 seams currently best HTC choice if you need keyboard. However frankly speaking after having 2 HTC devices (Hermes and Kaiser) with slide keyboards I am not very confident about the durability (quality) of HTC hardware. Both of the devices had after short time issues with the rails and tilt mechanism.
Just recently I went to a shop to have look on the TP2 and the keyboard rails and the tilt seams same crap as previous devices. You can also read many complain in the TP2 section about screen wobbling. Touch HD has a very nice large screen (love large screens) but it is 1 year old technology and performance wise it did not satisfied many people. Furthermore as you are from USA you would need Australian version to able to use in American 3G. But the Device cost still after 1 year some 800-900$
My personal favoured are currently the Samsung Omnia II/i800 and Samsung Omnia II pro (b7610) Specs on the paper and the current reviews are indicating that those are under best devices on the market. Furthermore Samsung has almost entirely covered with additional software the aged WinMo operation platform. Further positive point is the Price. Both Samsung devices are about 100-200 USD cheaper then HTC devices even though they have better CPU; Camera etc.

I agree with Bulldog -- the Omnia II devices look really excellent. I like the design of the TP2 better, but I trust Samsung's build quality more and, feature-wise, it's fantastic.

Yes but you have to add that with omnia or any other you´ll not have the support of this great site!
That for me is an added value to consider before buying

orb3000 said:
Yes but you have to add that with omnia or any other you´ll not have the support of this great site!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you do. This site offers Winmob o/s and Winmob App support to all. If you want cooked roms, look no further than omnia.modaco.com where there are plenty! My Omnia (original one) is currently running a great cooked rom of WM 6.5
Lets also not forget the AMOLED screen either on the new Omnias. I really regret buying my Acer M900, not because its crap - its not - but the new Samsungs look simply stunning. And if you factor in the success of the Omnia, widely regarded as the best Winmob all-rounder, the new Omnias should be spanking!

|QUESTION| Will HTC LEO/HD2 get WM 7.0 Update

Hi guys.
am not sure if this is the right place to ask or not but there isnt a section for it as yet so asking here only.
I really liked the specs of the upcoming HTC Leo, and might wana buy it in christmas.
but there is one thing i want to know is that being such an advanced device with 1ghz processor, 320mb ram, capacitative 4.3" screen, is it ready for a WM7 update?
any idea on that?
and if its not and MS want a much stronger device then is MS trying to bring WM7 to netbooks or what? cause anything more that HTC Leo is not going to be a CelPhone Device.
IF someone knows anything then do clear this plz.

Mr. Makk said:
Hi guys.
am not sure if this is the right place to ask or not but there isnt a section for it as yet so asking here only.
I really liked the specs of the upcoming HTC Leo, and might wana buy it in christmas.
but there is one thing i want to know is that being such an advanced device with 1ghz processor, 320mb ram, capacitative 4.3" screen, is it ready for a WM7 update?
any idea on that?
and if its not and MS want a much stronger device then is MS trying to bring WM7 to netbooks or what? cause anything more that HTC Leo is not going to be a CelPhone Device.
IF someone knows anything then do clear this plz.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the Leo will support the upgrade to WM 7, there are plenty of web pages which talk about it, for example i read this one: http://www.gsmdome.com/htc/htc-leo-supports-windows-mobile-7-upgrade-first_9955

am really glad 2read dat. i hope dat its true.

Despite the hardware, don't expect any OS or Manila upgrades for HTC devices as long as they are not officially announced as from the release. I reckon that HTC will not provide any CE7 upgrade for the HTC Leo - that's typical HTC support, you'll see - that's also the experience from the Diamond and Blackstone devices with regards to WM6.5. Of course, there will be CE7 ROMs which can be flashed on an unofficial basis.

Georgeous2008, WM7/CE7 can't just be "ported" to current WM6/CE5 devices, so don't claim that for sure. I heard the whole kernel and driver structures are different. The only chance of backporting WM7 is if a device with (almost) exactly the same hardware gets released with WM7.
Specs say there will be a WM7 upgrade. They meet all the requirements of WM7, including things that don't really make sense in WM6.5, such as the digital compass and the capacitive screen. Neither are extensively supported in WM6.5, but are requirements for WM7.
That does't guarantee that HTC will provide a WM7 upgrade, of course.

basically, it has sufficient hardware specs, but it is unlikely that HTC will provide an update like with the td2 and tpro 2 with winmo 6.5
But there MAY be a chance of you being able to flash it IF ROMs can be created but nothing can be said as of yet

having a mammoth device like leo and using it for wm6.5 aint full justice to the power it has. and it'llbe poor strategy to bring leo but without the option of wm7. hope htc does hv plans. cause i believe leo's power is for wm7 only.

Soaa- said:
Georgeous2008, WM7/CE7 can't just be "ported" to current WM6/CE5 devices, so don't claim that for sure. I heard the whole kernel and driver structures are different. The only chance of backporting WM7 is if a device with (almost) exactly the same hardware gets released with WM7.
Specs say there will be a WM7 upgrade. They meet all the requirements of WM7, including things that don't really make sense in WM6.5, such as the digital compass and the capacitive screen. Neither are extensively supported in WM6.5, but are requirements for WM7.
That does't guarantee that HTC will provide a WM7 upgrade, of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All it really needs is someone from HTC to write a compatible Kernel for the specific device. It really doesn't mean the hardware has to be exactly the same on every device, it just means HTC has to consider it a time-worthy idea. Although at this point, I'm not thinking it's going to happen. We still have a 6.5.1 release on its way, and who knows when Microsoft will release WM7.
To be perfectly honest, I think it was a mistake for Microsoft to invest all of this time and money into the WM6.5 half a*s OS. They should have just went straight to WM7.

Basically, to sum up and put it in perspective, you prolly won't find out too much accurate information about running and OS that hasn't been released to anyone on a device that hasn't been released...