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As June 9th is just around the corner, I am just curious who will switch over to the new 3G iPhone? This maybe the wrong place to ask since everyone is a WM user including myself, very happy with my Trinity, but just really curious as to what it will take for you to switch to the new iPhone. I used the current iPhone for just over a month and I must say that Safari, the screen, and the user interface is unmatched atm. It did lack many things but with the SDK launching it could be a whole new world. Just curious what your thoughts are...and just incase you are curious my iPhone was a lemon (long story) so it just heated up and broke. Since I unlocked it myself the warranty was voided.
Depends on whether it'll be able to record calls. If it can, I may dump my current HTC Oxygen (one of the VERY few HTC models to support recording) and switch to the iPhone,
no
maybe if i can handwrite on it
Another no here.
WM is more versatile for me, that and I dont like the dumbed down approach that Apple takes on all of its devices.
Also with the X1 around the corner, I don't think I'll be making the switch any time soon.
No Way! WM rules!
But, let us know how it works out for u after a few months?
galaxys said:
No Way! WM rules!
But, let us know how it works out for u after a few months?
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It will need GPS for me to get it, and I don't want something that half the world may have...
It will probably be the Raphael or the X1 for me.
dumbed-down is a little unfair. The approach of the Iphone is to make things simple so that everyone can enjoy it. I'm used to Winmo and I'm used to Symbian but there is a definite draw to the Iphone's sleek, intuitive and WELL THOUGHT OUT system. What's WRONG with simple if all the functionality is there? Would you not take all the features of Winmo if they were put into a simpler package? Or is it better to have everything bogged down in menus?
Granted it's not there yet, but with external GPS support at least the Iphone could become serious competition - people aren't apeing its ideas for nothing.
The SDK release has seen a huge surge in development for the Iphone: it has to be seen to be believed.
I may get an Iphone; I probably won't but it crosses my mind occasionally. At the very least the introduction of the Iphone has made Windows Mobile users' experience a HELL OF A LOT BETTER as Opera 9.5 and Iphone-mimicing systems such as Touchflo prove.
I'm a proud WM owner here however I do own the first iPhone (don't use it much) and I propably will buy the iPhone 2.0 but I doubt I will use it as a primary phone. I'm a bit of a gadget freak and like to handle the devices myself rather then read about them but with all the things I can do with the WM devices I doubt I will switch to the iPhone.
I'm too dependent on 3rd party apps as references, so NO I won't switch at the moment.
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Lol! Great poll! WinMo all the way for me!
I'll keep my device and continue to trump the iPhone users with my device, even if it is upgraded, I'll just upgrade more!
GPS was one of my "must have" for a phone and if the 2nd Gen iPhone has it, it will definitely be worth looking at. It took a very long time for WM to get GPS to be pretty much standard and if it only took Apple one year to put GPS on then they are really listening to the average consumers. IMHO I highly doubt there will be built in GPS or A2DP. Only time will tell.
I once thought that if iPhone has GPS, if it has ability to take in spare battery, if it has a slot for microSDHC, if it has 7.2Mb/s download speed, then I would definitely switch over. But then I think again, and said, no, I still won't.
The first reason is I have so many very attractive third party software that would only run on win mo platform and not iPhone platform.
The second reason is that some of the winmo phone are already having close to iPhone user interface anyway. HTC diamond, HTC Raphael, Sony Xperia X1, just to name a few.
The third reason is that I'm a person who get bored with the same phone very quickly, no matter how complete it is, how user friendly it is, and how slick it is. I just need to change the way it looks and feel every now and then without actually changing the phone itself. Winmo is the only platform that lets me do this. I change ROM, I change what gets shown on the today screen, I change the resolution (96 to 128, to 192), giving me a feeling that it is a completely new phone every now and then. I keep swaping in and out my weather program, my youtube player, my file explorer. I spend considerable of my freetime looking for better and newer third party applications, and this hobby is additive almost. If I switch to iPhone, I guess I'd be happy with it only for a few days, and then it'd be just boredom after that.
In some ways iPhone is ahead of the pack, but it is way way behind in many other respect and is playing a catch up game. Sorry, but this is true. It is understandable because it is still new in this field.
I wont upgrade to iphone as I dont like apples 'Locked Down' approach to everything... if they want more dominance then they need to open it up... not just by offering applications through itunes.
I'd need full synchronization with MS Offce, similar to what you get from Activesync before considering iphone.
No, not at all. Until Apple realise that "youtube" isn't important enough to warrant its own menu icon then their devices won't appeal to me! I like the versitality of Windows Mobile devices
eaglesteve said:
If I switch to iPhone, I guess I'd be happy with it only for a few days, and then it'd be just boredom after that.
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You hit it on the head right there, my friend. I get bored and change things up constantly...I don't know if I could handle being stuck with the same screens forever.
For my work (techy for large manufacturing corp.) I have both an iPhone (beta 2 firmware) and Treo 750 (wm6 to 6.1 depending on how I feel that day/week) and while the iPhone does some multimedia stuff better, but from a total end-user experience the Treo is a much better device. I however, have to believe that the next "true" incarnation of the iPhone (this 3g release not being it) will be much closer to the "desktop" experience. When they do "open" the device to end user customization (i.e. installing apps, fine tuning device behavior) in addition to adding basic functionality (e.g. cut and paste) and continued in-roads to exchange they will then have a product to compete against. I will give Apple the nod that they certainly raised the bar with this 1st attempt - look at all the threads here trying to duplicate the home page and all the advances in the touch ui that have since taken place. Granted this may have eventually come about, but the iPhone has to be given credit for "encouraging" more fervent development.
But since that is just a "hunch" right now, I will only hope my employer gives me the 3g upgrade just so I don't have to suffer through edge any longer. But really am looking forward to seeing the Diamond and/or Raphael in the states. What I have seen of the UI is just brilliant and looks to have raised the bar I earlier mentioned a couple of notches higher still.
Cheers!
sure, iPhone is an eye candy, but other than that. It is really a flashy toy to lug around. For functionality, I would stick with either Diamond or Sonyericsson X1.
ir the iphone had third party applications allowing a wider margin of customization, gps, tv.............. maybe id get it as a plaything or a pet for my Sprint Touch lol but not my main phone fo sho, it looks nice and flashy but thats the case, its designed for dumb pple that dont know much about modern functuality in a phone and lets themselves be seduced of the looks and flashy interface leading them to believe that its Gods phone lol, makes me laugh... anyway id admit that i might get it but not as my main phone
think i will be getting it will still use WM tho i'll have both i just liek the way the iphone looks and feels nice and sexy
So before I call up HTC and ask them if I have a fualty device, I thought I'd ask the guys here
I got my Touch Pro around two weeks ago, and after getting annoyed with its screen sensitivity (lack off) and the terrible scrolling method they have implemented, I flashed it to RomeOS 1.21....
The problems:
Even when its in the case, the phone sometimes does random things, and yesterday it called my friend on its own, while I wasn't even touching it (it had been on the table for atleast 10 minutes - granted it was face down, but still?)
Does HTC think this device is for people with small hands?? Clicking the cross at the top right and the two buttons at the bottom of the screen are are chore... It wont recognise my thumb pressing on them, I have to point my nail at them!!
Scrolling through the touch flo interface gets laggy esp. when you scroll slowly past internet related sections... Guess this must be a software based problem though.
Scrolling through the contact list is just ridiculous - When I flick the list (on All People) most the time it goes into overdrive and just keeps scrolling. And when I finally find the contact I want and try to click the name (again thumb press), it assumes I am trying to still search through the contacts and moves to another contact.
Using opera mobile is one of the worst internet experiences I have had... I had heard raving reviews about it, but using it I just find everything to be slow - Zooming is laggy, and again clicking sometimes brings up a context menu, or sometimes takes ages to recognise that I have clicked a link and so I have to click that little icon at the bottom right of the screen to see if anything is loading.
Most my problems seem to be related to the touch experience on the device.
Does anyone have the same issues? If not should I call up HTC?
+1 On most of it
The laggy experice is sad, if you cant make something work 100% why realease it? I have the pro now but have had the diamond without keyboard and trying to write with it took about 3 weeks but still you would type wrong. I took my friends iphone the other day and no lagging wile browsing thru menues or when typing not one misstyping.
And how long has the windows mobile been around? 6 years + ? And still they cant get **** to work. I have tried custom roms but they also have bugs.
And if anyone is gonna complain about my iphone experince stfu. Cause after iphone all windows mobile phones are trying to make their interface look cooler, Xperia, Omnia, Diamond etc. etc.
BarateaU said:
And how long has the windows mobile been around? 6 years + ? And still they cant get **** to work. I have tried custom roms but they also have bugs.
And if anyone is gonna complain about my iphone experince stfu. Cause after iphone all windows mobile phones are trying to make their interface look cooler, Xperia, Omnia, Diamond etc. etc.
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Um are you sure about that? I am a iPhone hater, but doesn't mean I won't correct you on how wrong you are. First off. Let me explain some points. the ONLY reason the iPhone is soo popular is because it has a capactive touchscreen, is idiot usable, and is made by apple. If you compare it to the Omnia, it is pretty much very close and I would say the Omnia wins if it has a better resolution. First off, apple tried to base their interface off of previous work. Then winmo companies stepped up and made a better interface. TF3D, Omnia, and Xperia panels ARE NOTHING LIKE the iPhoney crap. Seriously? Do you even see a connection in TF3D and iPhone crap interface? Cause I don't. I don't know where you're going with this one. I could kinda see it with the panels, but then again, you're pushing it when comparing it to the iPhone. I can agree that HTC looked at the iPhone and tried to make a better interface using it as a base, but seriously. TouchFLO 3D looks nothing like the iPhone interface or "whatever the crap interface is that doesn't have a name."
Im not saying that they copyed the entire iphone look. Im saying that after the iphone they all tried making their phones hotter. And that you cant disagree with. And whats with the apple hate in this forum? Are you guys scared of them? Why not take the best out of them. Everytime someone here mentions an iphone its like saying something nasty about your mom.
First off all, apple did it. They have never had a phone on their products list but they made one and its a topseller, for how long has htc been doing phones?
BarateaU said:
Im not saying that they copyed the entire iphone look. Im saying that after the iphone they all tried making their phones hotter. And that you cant disagree with. And whats with the apple hate in this forum? Are you guys scared of them? Why not take the best out of them. Everytime someone here mentions an iphone its like saying something nasty about your mom.
First off all, apple did it. They have never had a phone on their products list but they made one and its a topseller, for how long has htc been doing phones?
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Eh. I'm hating on apple for making a great phone, but killing it and not making it as customizable as windows. The average consumers love it, but the tech savvy people hate that. We LIKE complicated things. Yes, I'll agree that after apple made the iPhone, HTC and other companies stepped up. But that happens. Before, they had no reason to step up. Before the iPhone, believe it or not, people barely ever complained about their PPC. They loved it and HTC had no reason to make it better if we were still buying it from them. They are in for the profits. So now, when they see some people diverting from HTC devices to iPhone and other devices, they decide to make their devices better.
Reasons iPhone was top seller:
WAY WAY WAY too much advertising
Very cheap (Reason for 2nd gen. First gen's reason is: see below)
Too over hyped and too over looked.
From apple
Very "user-friendly"
Many mac fanboys bought the iPhone
I-phones are designed to be idiot proof, hence they sell to mostly idiots with money to waste/ burn.
My diamond has a better resolution, its smaller oh & I can do way loads more things with it than an I-phone can do.
It's kind of like the I-pod issue, overated/ expensive crap...
But we all have our own opinions, its just mines is that the i-phones an overated heap of junk
My diamond doesnt phone any1 unless i make it do, maybe u have a faulty device or maybe u have ghosts in your house that like messing with u ?
Kraize92 said:
Eh. I'm hating on apple for making a great phone, but killing it and not making it as customizable as windows. The average consumers love it, but the tech savvy people hate that. We LIKE complicated things. Yes, I'll agree that after apple made the iPhone, HTC and other companies stepped up. But that happens. Before, they had no reason to step up. Before the iPhone, believe it or not, people barely ever complained about their PPC. They loved it and HTC had no reason to make it better if we were still buying it from them. They are in for the profits. So now, when they see some people diverting from HTC devices to iPhone and other devices, they decide to make their devices better.
Reasons iPhone was top seller:
WAY WAY WAY too much advertising
Very cheap (Reason for 2nd gen. First gen's reason is: see below)
Too over hyped and too over looked.
From apple
Very "user-friendly"
Many mac fanboys bought the iPhone
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Im seeing your point. But also your saying that HTC had no reason? What kind of bs is that. So just cause they have something that works they dont need to evolve? Then I say Halleluja iphone, cause the windows mobile looks like crap, if it wasnt for the tf3d i wouldt have spend that much money on this phones. And you cant hate apple for that reason cause then you should hate ericsson, nokia, sagem, samsung, motorola etc etc shouldnt you?
""Using opera mobile is one of the worst internet experiences I have had... I had heard raving reviews about it, but using it I just find everything to be slow - Zooming is laggy, and again clicking sometimes brings up a context menu, or sometimes takes ages to recognise that I have clicked a link and so I have to click that little icon at the bottom right of the screen to see if anything is loading.""
I actually love the opera browser on the diamond & i especially love the way it zooms in & out with the wheel, maybe its just cause your not used to it yet or maybe you just have made up your mind already & just hate your diamond pro ? wasnt it ?
either way I think the way opera runs on a diamond rocks, seen a sh*t load of phones. pda's with "so called internet" & the way the diamond runs with opera is the best ive experienced yet. I tried out an I-phones inet use on a m8's & found it a bit limited shall we say, sure the touch is great but the actual ability of it's browser's total crap.
my other 2 cents worth on this arguement here
just my 2 cents here..
i love opera..i find it very easy to use. The only problem i have is that scrolling through the bookmarks is slow (without the scrolling bar)
as about the finger size, i have to say its a matter of getting used to.you have to get used to where exactly you have to touch the screen with your "big" fingers to get it right.
Calling on its own: This is related to the phone unlocking andthen the screen touch does the rest. What you have to do is make sure its locked when not in use. There are many applications that do that. I use sensor lock, others are throttlelock, s2u2, etc
Personally i dont have many issues with the contact list. Then again, you can always type the first letters and it will find them in no time..so no real need to scroll unless you have to.Dont forget you can always use the dpad and the ok button to select (if you cant do it with touch)
Thanks for the replies... I didnt really compare this to the iphone, so not sure why all the iphone talk :S.
I spent the last 20 minutes, repeatedly re-aligning the screen till it recognised my input well, so I guess that issue is fixed.
I then downloaded a contact replacement, so now its kind of better (apart from the fact I have to go to programs to reach contacts) - anyone know how to replace tabs so I can link it to my new contact manager.
I am going to try Skyfire as a replacement to opera mobile...
And as for Iphone being for idiots - I was one of the first to get the Ipod Touch, and whenever my friends would use it for the first time, everything worked fast, and it was easy to use, so your right it was for idiots lool.
My belief of why the Iphone is so popular -
When I first handed my touch pro to my friends, it was dog **** slow, and they got really lost when it went into the dirty winmo interface. Because I paid over £400 for it, I defended it to no end, saying it was the first firmware and it would get better. But this is what seperates the iphone to every other device. When a newbie uses the iphone, it just works and works quickly. So word of mouth of the product is excellent. Even though the HTC touch pro has more under the hood and better features one time users never see it, instead all they see is a slow interface with steep learning curve.
hellios said:
I am going to try Skyfire as a replacement to opera mobile...
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Be aware of the fact that Skyfire is only partially working on VGA displays -- changing the orientation and possibly some other operations will cause glitches. They've promised a VGA version, but they haven't suggested when that might be available.
hellios said:
Thanks for the replies... I didnt really compare this to the iphone, so not sure why all the iphone talk :S.
I spent the last 20 minutes, repeatedly re-aligning the screen till it recognised my input well, so I guess that issue is fixed.
I then downloaded a contact replacement, so now its kind of better (apart from the fact I have to go to programs to reach contacts) - anyone know how to replace tabs so I can link it to my new contact manager.
I am going to try Skyfire as a replacement to opera mobile...
And as for Iphone being for idiots - I was one of the first to get the Ipod Touch, and whenever my friends would use it for the first time, everything worked fast, and it was easy to use, so your right it was for idiots lool.
My belief of why the Iphone is so popular -
When I first handed my touch pro to my friends, it was dog **** slow, and they got really lost when it went into the dirty winmo interface. Because I paid over £400 for it, I defended it to no end, saying it was the first firmware and it would get better. But this is what seperates the iphone to every other device. When a newbie uses the iphone, it just works and works quickly. So word of mouth of the product is excellent. Even though the HTC touch pro has more under the hood and better features one time users never see it, instead all they see is a slow interface with steep learning curve.
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Not to keep the iphone praise/bashing alive but....
I owned WM phones/PPCs for the last 6 years and have loved them. But with any techie I became bored with my Kaiser once all the fun had been lost with rom flashing. It was time to find a new phone to mess around with and flash crap on. I picked up an Iphone just for fun and immediately though "wow, it's fast, intuitive and simply works". I quickly bought a Touch Diamond and started to compare them head to head. the Diamond had a great screen. But it was slow, very slow, even with tweaked roms. I sold the Diamond about 2 weeks into owning it and have not regretted it one bit.
BUT, I do plan on buying a Touch Pro and getting rid of the Iphone. The iphone has its issues like any phone but it has worked almost flawlessly for months now and never slows down like the diamond/kaiser/wizard/hermes/excalibur....that I have owned.
Is the iphone for idiots/sheep? Probably, but for me it was nice to have a phone that simply worked, and worked well. I just miss the big things like mms, cut and paste, OPERA, file explorer, TomTom........ I am willing (I think) to go back to a slower phone for more options.
one last thing, anyone who has actually used an iphone will agree, thier onscreen keyboard is the best in any device I have ever used. WTF was HTC thinking with the Diamond's onscreen keyboards. There almost worthless in comparison. I can type almost as fast with my iphone's onscreen keyboard as I could with my kaisers built in keyboard.
HTC has a long ways to go with the TF3D interface, it is very slow. I like the idea of it but the implementation is just poor. It has been 3 or 4 months now since I last used it so maybe it has gotten better.
Guess I will see when the Touch Pro hits AT&T's shelves later this week(I hope).
Jeff
BarateaU said:
Im seeing your point. But also your saying that HTC had no reason? What kind of bs is that. So just cause they have something that works they dont need to evolve? Then I say Halleluja iphone, cause the windows mobile looks like crap, if it wasnt for the tf3d i wouldt have spend that much money on this phones. And you cant hate apple for that reason cause then you should hate ericsson, nokia, sagem, samsung, motorola etc etc shouldnt you?
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look fanboy if you are such a iPhone lover and hate winmo and htc then take your htc back and GTFO. No point in whining that all PPC phones are not just like iPhone. it wont change anything.
BarateaU said:
Im seeing your point. But also your saying that HTC had no reason? What kind of bs is that. So just cause they have something that works they dont need to evolve? Then I say Halleluja iphone, cause the windows mobile looks like crap, if it wasnt for the tf3d i wouldt have spend that much money on this phones. And you cant hate apple for that reason cause then you should hate ericsson, nokia, sagem, samsung, motorola etc etc shouldnt you?
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Idk what you're talking about lawl. The only brands I would ever think about owning and have owned is Samsung, Sony, and HTC. I despise all other brands. So I guess yeah, I do hate all other brands besides these 3. TF3D is fast on my kaiser so I have no idea what some people are talking about it being slow. If you people don't like your diamond/touch pro, just stop whining and move on to the iPhone if you think it's so great. I guarantee you'll miss a lot of features if you've been with WinMo for a long time.
Seriously people... are these faults due to a bad handset? or is it a widespread issue?
As for skyfire... installed it, and I could only see half the app!! Shame - there online demo seemed so good.
hellios said:
As for skyfire... installed it, and I could only see half the app!! Shame - there online demo seemed so good.
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Yeah, I'm really going to miss Skyfire until they issue their VGA upgrade (that is, assuming AT&T brings out the Fuze first! -- it seems like the two companies are competing for who can delay the longest!). I use it for nearly all my browsing on my 8525, and I like it a lot.
Look, the iPhone haters can hate on the iPhone all they want but you can't dismiss the fact that Opera Mobile on the Touch Pro is barely acceptable. Mobile Safari beats it i'd have to admit. Like an earlier posted mentioned, it's slow as bollocks...OMG is it slow. Slow to acknowledge any input, slow to refresh/redraw and so on. Granted it's better than Explorer but just barely.
I played with a friend's G1 and the web browser puts Opera Mobile to shame by a long shot. I was jealous. Now i still love my Sprint Touch Pro but gravely disappointed in the web browser, it could be so much better.
LordLugard said:
Look, the iPhone haters can hate on the iPhone all they want but you can't dismiss the fact that Opera Mobile on the Touch Pro is barely acceptable. Mobile Safari beats it i'd have to admit. Like an earlier posted mentioned, it's slow as bollocks...OMG is it slow. Slow to acknowledge any input, slow to refresh/redraw and so on. Granted it's better than Explorer but just barely.
I played with a friend's G1 and the web browser puts Opera Mobile to shame by a long shot. I was jealous. Now i still love my Sprint Touch Pro but gravely disappointed in the web browser, it could be so much better.
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Eh. Haven't noticed about Opera. Could care less about opera. I use Netfront and Skyfire But skyfire is out of the race till they develope it for VGA
is the opera complaints here applicable to all users? or is it limited to a few % of lemons out there?
if it's a lemon issue then i'm not too concerned...
and look guys...every product has some flaws and may have lemons here and there...even apple makes lemons - 1% of 2nd gen iphone...10mil translates into 100k...that's aweful lot of lemons don't u think?
we all know why we're here waiting for TP...cuz we're at least somewhat tech savvy....if you're not interested in TP, you might wish to click here
baboola said:
is the opera complaints here applicable to all users? or is it limited to a few % of lemons out there?
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Yes, it is lol.
baboola said:
if you're not interested in TP, you might wish to click here
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Lolololol I love that.
I am about to get a new phone and it's down to these two. I'm pretty familiar with the iPhone. It's nice, but doesn't do many of the things I would like, plus I can't stand the thought of a locked down device. What I do like is the great internet experience and the speed of the UI. I have been looking at the Fuze for a while and have some questions.
What GPS options are you using?
Any way to remove the AT&T junk?
If I get a cooked ROM (I barely know what that is right now), does it void the warranty? And can I download the original ROM to reflash back to original?
Any way to lock the touchscreen and front buttons to avoid accidentally answering the phone?
Did someone reallyfigure out how to turn off the PTT button?
What do you not like about the Fuze?
Thanks in advance!
HTC WM6.1 phone vs. iPhone
I have both HTC phone and Iphone...
The iphone is a great device, if you are a teenager and most of your use is text message buddies, play games, surf the net etc. I would certainly enjoy one like it if I am on vacation in the US. The iPhone is locked to AT&T only, so if you are going overseas, like I do from time to time, your iphone becomes either a brick, or a $$$ hungry device if you dare use it and pay roaming.
My 14 years old enjoys my iphone a lot. It's cool. it's fun, it looks good, and it is important when you are 14...
Now if you buy it for business and for connectivity with an office, then the unlocked cooked roms are the answer. Yes, warranty is an issue if you use a cooked ROM, but there is always a way to put back the AT&T stock ROM. So unless you have failed the phone in a manner one can not re flash it, it is not a big deal. Flashing the phone is quite easy and the wiki on this forum is very helpful. For your GPS questions- you can use TomTom or iGO. Assuming you buy them, there is no monthly charge after. By using a cooked ROM the AT&T junk is no longer there, and as far as applications to load, well, it's a WM phone. Connectivity to OFFICE package is superb, and there isn't an application in the PC world that you can't find a PPC version of it (almost, anyways).
Locking screen and keys is simple, with high 3D graphics. Look around on the forum and you will find few.
PTT button works IF you pay AT&T for the servie. No one I know uses it. We all reprogramm this hard key to do something else. I don't think there is a real need for a PTT service (Nextel like) unless it is a company phone and there are a bunch of guys wanting their own channel of communications.
HTC , by definition, came up with a bunch of cool phones. Very reliable, long lasting, with nifty features. The good news is WM7 is around the corner, so it is going to be even better...
Enjoy your new phone, whatever you choose to have. this post is just one opinion, but you ask an unbiased opinion in the WM forum... none here is really crazy about the iphone...
Thanks. I'm a long way from 14. I will use it for some business (anyone know how to get Lotus Notes on this thing?), but mostly as a phone, some texting, some multimedia, personal email, and some internet surfing. Pretty mixed bag. This will be my first smartphone, so there will be some learning curve. I'm not a big fan of the iPhone, but it's more of distrust of how Apple handles things and the total loackdown they have on the device. We have several Apple products in our house, the wife loves them. Me, not so much. Nice stuff, I just prefer more choices in how I use my hardware.
if you are wanting to customize like you say you are, then yes you will want the touch pro. you will just need time to sit down and do some reading.
Yes you can remove att's bloatware, you will just need to flash a new rom.
ROM means read only memory it basically is just everything they will stay on your phone when you hard reset. A clean version of a rom would be something you would get directly from microsoft. But lets say you by a laptop from dell or hp, they will give you all kinds of crap that doesn't really have to do with the operating environment. You will get dell-ware or hp-ware.
Basically by flashing a rom you just have a choice in what you want on your ppc, there are all kinds of flavors of roms everything from the bare minimals of the phone to even run (super-clean) or a multimedia rich rom (there are even roms based around programs like manilla, throttlelauncher, htc home, ect)
Yes flashing a rom will void your warranty if its not an official Rom, but you can revert back to send in for warranty purposes.
The touch pro has an accelerometer (motion sensor). just one reason to go with the fuze over the x1.
Customize, customize, customize. Thats what we all do with our phones. My friends tells me i seem to have a new phone everytime i see them. All of this just takes some reading and may look daunting at first but you will get the hang of it quick enough.
let me know when you pick up your touch pro if you need some help on where to start.
----One more thing windows mobile7 is a little way out but wm6.5 should be out soon (which will be almost windows mobile 7 minus integration of zune)
Coming from a fuze owner...
I know this thread is somewhat old, but it's the third result if you search Google for "iphone vs. htc fuze," and I'd like to add my two cents for anyone else who has to make this choice.
I recently used my upgrade and got a Fuze. Before doing this, I did my research and read the comments about it being slow and clunky with the stock ROM, but that you had the ability to change almost anything with cooked roms, different applications, etc. I'm a pretty tech savvy guy, so I didn't think I would mind. After weeks of trying to decide between the Fuze and the iPhone (with some consideration of the bb Bold), I sucked it up and got the Fuze.
I'm somewhat happy about my decision. Hardware-wise, the phone is amazing. The slide out QWERTY keyboard is awesome (although the keys are a little crammed), the phone looks slick IMO, and the weight is decent; it feels like it could take a little abuse. The camera is nice, the reception (even stock) is nice, etc.
Software-wise, the phone is quite clunky. I know it's been said to death, but Windows Mobile is an awful operating system. Some of the features that I like (e.g., the file explorer, 'right clicking,' and text selection) are wonderful; however, WM6.1 is not designed for touch. TouchFLO3D is nice, but it's just the outer coating. Once you touch the screen to read more texts, go to the file explorer, etc., however, you have to enter WM6.1 again.
I have also heard comments about there being a ton of applications for Windows Mobile. This is true, however, now that the iPhone is out, there has been a HUGE push to develop apps for that platform (e.g., better AIM clients, Facebook mobile, online banking, etc). The applications are in one place and easier to access (app store) and are more user-friendly/fun. Certain programs are also integrated better with the iPhone (e.g., Google Maps)
Opera Mobile (for internet browsing) is alright on the Fuze. It's better than the options for Blackberrys, but the iPhone has it completely beat in this department. Many sites don't work without a little tweaking (e.g., Google News), and some sites don't work at all (Bank of America online banking). I did notice that some sites will work if you switch over to Internet Explorer, but that's a pain.
I feel like HTC completely wasted their hardware on this. It would be an excellent phone if it ran on Android or even on their own OS.
The only type of person I can recommend this phone to is a business user who sends out a lot of emails, but doesn't like the Blackberry style keyboard.
If you're a business user and don't mind, get a Blackberry. It's the corporate standard. Even Obama has one!
If you are:
a consumer
a mac-user
someone who wants the best mobile internet experience
or just someone who wants to have fun with their phone right off the bat, and not have to completely tweak it
get the iPhone, G1 (another phone made by HTC), or Palm Pre when it comes out.
I don't completely hate the phone, I just dislike it enough to suck up the $20 restocking fee and get a new phone (probably an iphone).
I see how old this is... but after i got the red light of death on my tilt and its out of warranty... 376 bucks is a waste of cash for a known problem and crappy battery life. I thought about the Fuze but HTC pissed me off. I'm gonna get the iPhone hopefully it has a better battery so i dont have to charge it every night like my tilt! if not ill go old school and get a rzr... lol... thank you XDA it was fun while it lasted and i got alot of help along with ;earning really cool things about wm 6.1... peace
I am not using the Fuze but I am using the Kaiser, my wife uses the Hermes, and all our kids have the I-Phone. I borrow their I-Phones from time to time. Here are my observations.
I-Phone
The I-Phone is very slick. The best thing about the I-Phone is its size, weight, the size of the screen, and the simplicity of use. There's not a slicker more carefully designed phone out there. Anyone can use it with little trouble. It's very dependable. You ask then, "Why aren't you using an I-Phone"?
Windows Mobile Phone
I'm not using the I-Phone for several reasons. I'm a businessman. I have literally thousands of contacts on my phone. I can access them more quickly on my Kaiser than I can on the I-Phone. The Kaiser's QWERTY is flat out faster than typing on the screen (although one of my sons can type nearly as fast as I can on his I-Phone because of his thin fingers).
When I need information, I need it fast. When I'm in a meeting someone needs to find an address or anything on the web, I beat the I-Phone users to the punch all the time. Time is money.
I do speed tests with both the Kaiser and the I-Phone. The results on the two types of phones from our home are about the same on dslreports.com. However, I can get to the information I want faster with IE than I can with Safari. Yes, Safari on the I-Phone is great but I have to let the page load then blow up a portion of the page and move it around. This takes time.
3G signal is another area where the HTC phone beats the I-Phone. The HTC phones seem to pick up 3G signals in more places than the I-Phone. This may change as I-Phones improve. Just my observations.
I love the integration of Word, Excel, Power Point, etc, with WM6.1 It works very well.
There are still many things the I-phone cannot do.
1) There's no cut and paste. Yea, I know it's coming. But how well will it work.
2) It cannot handle adobe .pdf files. I get these sent to me all the time in emails. They're almost always business related. I can read them and respond quickly where ever I am.
3) There's no stereo bluetooth so one has to look like the retards Apple shows on its commercials bouncing around to the music wearing wired earphones. I use my stereo bluetooth headsets all the time with my HTC phones. I can listen to music and not miss any important calls. I can walk all over my office with the phone in my office and still get calls.
4) I can use my HTC phones on several networks in the U.S. and elsewhere.
5) There's no removable memory or batteries. The EU will force Apple to make I-Phones with removable batteries. But I still like being able to keep certain data on a storage card.
6) The charger the I-Phone uses is proprietary. I like fact that the HTC devices use a standard USB charger.
In conclusion, the I-Phone is definitely a game changing device. It's a great device for kids, the elderly, and those who won't or cannot become computer savvy. Eventually, the I-phone may catch up to the HTC devices to the point I'd consider one.
The fact of the matter is that the HTC devices are more powerful devices and are especially more powerful for the business user.
Before I get started, please don't scream. I am just *waiting* for the douchebag assault to begin, because after all, this is an internet forum and it'll happen come hell or high water no matter what I say. This post is not for the douchebags, it's for the reasonable people who are willing to discuss, listen and talk in a rational way.
I got my first fuze the day before launch (November 10th), and out of the gate it was problematic. Now, I was and still am enamored by the feature set, and the hardware is amazing when it's working right. My first fuze locked up and crashed programs *constantly*. After a week and a half I exchanged it for another, and this was a better experience, but still flawed.
Fuze #2 never once locked up, but it did crash programs pretty frequently. Not every day and not every program and not even consistently, but it did so with enough frequency to be damn annoying. The AT&T software load, as everyone already knows, is complete ****. It makes a 528Mhz phone with 8 times the RAM of my old Wizard feel slower than the Wizard with a hacked ROM, and that's just sad. I've been using my Wizard (a cingular 8125) since launch, and I can honestly say that unlike most phones the experience only kept getting *better* as the hardware aged, and it was able to do so as a direct result of the fine folks of XDA who have cooked up some really amazing ROM's. The work you guys do is phenomenal and it only gets better as time goes on.
And so I loaded up a custom ROM from here on my Fuze. It was, to say the least, WORLDS better than the AT&T stock ROM. But it still had its annoyances. Some programs would still crash. There was still hesitation here and there when using the Manila 3D UI. Finding and acquiring software to run on it is a pain. Don't get me wrong--Windows Mobile has GOBS of great software available and I've blown hours upon hours finding it, playing with it, enjoying it, over the last 2 and a half years.
Of course, that's part of the problem--to get the really good stuff you have to search endlessly all over the web to find the really great stuff for WinMo. XDA is a terrific place because there is so much stuff discussed and linked to, but even here you have to trudge through miles of posts and it's a pain, plus there's the whole process of downloading, unarchiving, copying to the device, installing to the device--only to do it all over again when the next great ROM comes out. This isn't the fault of anyone here, but it's evidence of a problem that's grown beyond the community's ability to solve--the problem is with Windows Mobile itself and the infrastructure that does--or more accurately does NOT--support it.
Let me 'splain. When I finally had enough of my Fuze, I took it back to AT&T to find something else. I dicked with the Blackberry, I hated it. I've always hated blackberry, both from an infrastructure support side and from an interface side. So that was out. I've never been an Apple guy EVER. In college we had some piece of **** Mac's that were just miserable to use and I learned very well to hate them, so I hadn't even considered an iPhone.
And then I tried it. My first response, as an official Mac hater, was to find its flaws. The camera is mediocre (2mp? LAME!). But then, I have a REAL camera for taking any serious pictures (let's face it, no cell phone camera is going to replace a nice Canon or Nikon any time soon for high end photography). The screen resolution isn't as nice as the Fuze...yet it's still better than the Wizard was, and it's not so low that it ends the world. I hate that there are no hardware buttons except for Home, Power, Mute and the volume toggle, but then, the Fuze wasn't replete with buttons either and I'd already weaned myself off the Wizard's multiple buttons anyway. And it pisses me off that I can't use a friggin' MicroSD card to cheaply expand my storage.
But then I started to see what the device is really all about, and what really blew me away is how easy it is to use and to access a fat library of good apps, both paid and free. I don't even have to leave the device, I can browse it all straight from the phone, install it straight from the phone in a single step, and when I plug it into my PC it's all synced. When the next software update happens I just sync and everything I installed is put right back where I wanted it to be.
In short, I finally see why people are tripping over the iPhone. It's not the hardware, because let's face it the iPhone is outclassed in hardware by plenty of phones, including the Fuze. It's the interface, it's the software, it's the ease of use. And for me, at this point in my life where I'm trying to do more with my time than ever before, that makes it a great device choice for me. The iPhone, simply enough, will save me time and effort, and it enables me to do things I just can't do with Windows Mobile.
Now, my sincere hope is that WinMo 7 fixes these many issues. I hope it comes with an easy and fast UI. I hope the devices have multitouch screens. I hope there is finally an integrated backend infrastructure and an app store that nets easy access to both developers and consumers of applications and games. I hope it standardizes on a required minimum of built in storage but outdoes Apple by allowing you to expand it further with MicroSD (or whatever the hell comes next, but man do I hope NanoSD isn't next or I'll never be able to find my goddamn cards). And for goodness sakes, STOP vendors from loading the damn phones with all this bloat!
Compared to what Apple's done with the iPhone OS it feels like Windows Mobile is standing still, like Microsoft has dropped the ball and just stood there slack jawed as it rolled away. Maybe it's because they're so focused on kicking Sony in the nuts in the console wars, I dunno. All I can tell you is that what iPhone's software is today, WinMo's should have been a long time ago. The only reason it's survived this long is because guys like the geniuses on this forum have made it do things it was clearly never built to do in the first place.
With any luck I'll be trading in my iPhone for a WinMo 7 device, but I guess that remains to be seen. To everyone who's done anything for this community, I want to say thanks, because you made my enjoyment of my Wizard a true joy for almost 3 years.
Thanks,
Jason
I have mostly always used WM devices but in the mix of my many phones I have used both iPhones and I too agree that the interface is much simpler, easier to use, and direct, I also agree that certain apps specifically the games on the iPhone are uncomparable to the WM devices. Lastly, also think that the ease of app searching in the iPhone is the best, just browsing through the many apps is a joy.
With that said, using the iPhone is (to me) frustrating because most if not all apps crash, the web surfing is a pain because I remeber surfing and safari would constantly close. I traded my iPhone for the fuze and updates have done little to improve these problems, my wife still has the iphone 3g and I always have the same problems on her phone. In addition, I exchange my iphones multiple times because of these problem and they kept on happening. The only truly thing I miss from the iphone are the games and sometimes the appstore. The lack of multitasking is also horrible even by using the background tasking app when jailbreaking doesn't solve this dilema.
It really depends on what you need.
I honestly couldn't care less about the whole openness debate.
At least personally, I can jailbreak and get whatever (ok, maybe not) I want on an iphone.
The ui is much more responsive, and the screen is much larger.
BUT! I need physical keys, and that pretty much was the sole reason to not consider anything else.
Yesterday, while on the train, I was reading some stuff on Opera, while listening to music on Kimona, and typing away on Word, while swtiching between apps using Task Facade. Can I do this on the iPhone? Not as far as I know.
And about the larger screen, if I need to be typing frequently, the larger screen really doesn't benefit me since half of it will be filled with a virtual keyboard; what matters is a high res display. After comparing the two side by side, my choice was pretty clear.
Then there's another thing about the whole "responsiveness" debate. Honestly, at least with custom ROM's (which is really a bad excuse, since no one should have to do this to get past the minimum responsiveness), and running one app at a time, it's very snappy.
My point is, I find it inaccurate to state that the Fuze is a gateway to an iPhone without considering the target group and general purpose of winmo devices. Granted, more winmo phones want to hit the mainstream market, but let's face it, Fuze isn't targeted to hit any of the consumers out there. At&t did absolutely nothing to market it, and that really should be enough to invalidate the statement you provided. After all this is a forum where more technically inclined people hang around.
Wow, that's a lot of words. I'm surprised my ADD didn't kick in while reading it.
If you think that the iPhone will free you from crashes, think again. Yes, the interface is slick, but it is not the flawless stable system you see on the TV adds. I had the IPhone for a month before and returned it for the Fuze mainly because I got tired of Safari as well as any other memory intensive app constantly crashing.
The phone just doesn't have enough memory to be as good as it can be. My wife still has her iPhone which I recently upgraded to firmware version 2.2. This weekend, out of the blue, I asked her how it was performing. She replied "I just has to reboot the phone a minute ago."
I figure, if I have to deal with software lagginess and crashes, I might as well have a system that is accessible and customizable instead of one that is locked down. Oh, and the few extra buttons on the Fuze certainly do make a difference. But really, I find the Fuze with a new ROM MUCH MUCH more stable than the iPhone ever was.
Nice post, well thought out and honest. I, too, have a Fuze and am considering an Iphone. The bigger screen is a major factor; the Fuze screen is just so .. small! high-res is great, but pointless when you need to zoom in so close on things to read them that you might as well be running QVGA.
It seems I have a love/hate relationship with the Fuze, as many do here. One day, it drives me nuts -- Opera freezes up, scrolls and zooms in and out and behaves weird, the phone acts slow, bad GPS fix, and so on. I get frustrated and seriously consider returning it. Then, the next day it works like a dream! Quick GPS fix, opera works perfect, I discover something I did not know about before (i.e., circling your finger on a portion of a photo to zoom in right there -- cool!) and I would be sad to see it go.
I guess all we can do is be patient. As you said, other phones got better with age; I think it stands to reason that the same thing will happen with the Fuze. As better optimized web browsers get released (i.e., Fennec) and (hopefully) video drivers get updated, the whole experience should get better. If by some miracle we get WM7, who knows what that might bring. yeah, the hardware is frustrating -- small screen, weird buttons, no headphone jack -- but I think it is enough to deal with for now if we can get the software and drivers all optimized.
Thanks for all the great replies, guys. So far I have had the iPhone for just a shade over 48 hours, and I've updated to 2.2. I've experience no crashes yet, but I did need to reboot once after installing an app last night (weird, yet no biggie to me because I'm used to it in the Windows world).
I have to agree--I HATE that I can't run more than one app at a time on the iPhone. I don't know why they do that, but I can only presume that it's done that way in order to force memory to stay free so the OS remains quick and responsive. It's kind of a ****ty tradeoff IMHO, but at the same time...I'm liking the responsiveness and I *usually* don't do more than one thing at a time anyway. It's nice to have the option though.
By all means, I don't think Fuze is a waste at all (except in AT&T's horrible software load. What the hell are they thinking? Honestly they need to fire whoever builds their ROM's and hire somebody who does this as a hobby on XDA), and I think that when it matures it'll be damn difficult to beat. I fully expect WinMo7 to eventually arrive on it (barring some bizarre hardware requirements, but who knows?), but even if it doesn't I think the ROM devs around here will eventually harness this thing into a terrific device. Unfortunately I just don't feel like waiting around, because for my almost $400 out the door I feel I should have walked out of the AT&T store with a phone that blew the doors off most others without any need for a hack.
On the bright side, by the time the ROM's are really mature and crazy fast/stable, the Fuze will probably have dropped in price substantially
For those developing ROM's, some of my thoughts on UI are:
1. Larger buttons! Especially for closing apps and using drop downs, those tiny little default X's are miserable for finger access. Finger friendly is the way of the future.
2. Customize Touchflo. I've seen some slick youtube videos with guys doing very iPhone/Coverflowish stuff and it appears buttery smooth. Of course, I could never find where to get the software to try it out, but if it's doable, heck...do it
3. I dunno if this is possible, but how about setting up some sort of repository for free apps and building a thin client that could run in touchflo, connect to the server, and snag a list of apps available and maybe even install those directly to the phone. I don't see any reason not to steal the App Store's idea, it works well and it's a joy to use. Microsoft should have done this already
Just some thoughts!
I can relate to OP. I'm upgrading form a Wizard as well (T-Mo US MDA). While new ROM's certainly made my Wizard better, I can say that custom ROM's on it were not an absolute requirement. While I continued to be more amazed by my Wizard, I just continue to be a little less pissed off at my Fuse.
XDA is the ONLY reason I have not returned my Fuze. I'm finally back to a totally stripped ROM, with no fancy I wish I bought an IPhone TouchFlo Horse ****, and no AT&T application Douchebaggery.
OP, I feel you on the lack of buttons. I miss playing pocket Nester / GB on my Wizard. I think it says alot when it is totally outclassed and still sticks around as my "GameBoy".
I definitely have mixed feelings about the Fuze. I waited to buy this over the Tilt for the camera, and I have been somewhat impressed by it. I miss the Wizard's Keyboard layout and overall style, with the buttons NOT touching each other.
@Fatheadpi,
I can't agree more (though I am rather enamored with the iPhone's UI. It's not the animation and all that crap though, it's the sheer *speed* of it and ease of getting to anything I want to get to).
Fuze is an impressive piece of hardware, yet at the same time there are issues with it--primarily software--that are really hard to overlook on such an expensive device.
The iPhone has been around for quiet a while now, and has had 2 revisions. The Fuze is fresh out of the box, so making a comparison so early in it's release is a little judgemental. it is possible that alot of out problems can be solved by a nice ROM update (like video drivers). Or just out right fixed by custom ROMs here. if you think that apple listens to what the people want, just take a look at the cut/paste, or Video recording issues.
One of the "great" things about the iPhone is one of it's biggest weakness too. The app store, while its a one stop shopping for apps, is also controled by apple, and they are the final say on what kind of programs you are allowed to run on your device. You also can write new ones (think Schaps Advance config) you have to take what they want you to have and like it. If you try to break their rules, then you might find yourself owning a brick when you sync it.
I think you need to look at this in a little bit of a different light here.
Apple has for the most part stated that they are a software company; almost all of their efforts these days are portals to Itunes where Apple makes money hence the reason for lacking hardware but great UIs and access to Itunes. They make loads more money on Itunes than on hardware.
Looking at this from AT&T's viewpoint they make money on data plans, minutes, texting, basically anything crossing their network so these types of things work great on the phone.
A third party to all of this is HTC which has to make something attractive but gets no additional money at all after you buy the hardware.
So looking at it this way, it makes perfect sense why a pleasurable experience on a Winmo device is driven by the end user, in essence no one else is interested in your problem because they don't make money off of you.
So maybe some entrepreneur out there should figure out a nifty UI like iTunes but for Winmo where a user can buy a new ROM, or try out/buy some cool apps and so forth, figuring out a cool way to upgrade the device.
The real truth here is that Apple owns everything about the iPhone, there is no one entity that owns Winmo devices so individuals end up taking over and this creates multiple and sometimes confusing paths to good stuff.
-Tim
jasongw said:
(except in AT&T's horrible software load. What the hell are they thinking? Honestly they need to fire whoever builds their ROM's and hire somebody who does this as a hobby on XDA)
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If they don't do that, we may have to pay more for the device. So I really don't mind all the bloatware (you get what you pay for )
3. I dunno if this is possible, but how about setting up some sort of repository for free apps and building a thin client that could run in touchflo, connect to the server, and snag a list of apps available and maybe even install those directly to the phone. I don't see any reason not to steal the App Store's idea, it works well and it's a joy to use. Microsoft should have done this already
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http://getgecko.org/
I think these guys are trying to do just that. The problem is, ironically, but obviously, the openness.
Then there's this. It's from handango. Never tried it, probably not even close to what apple has. It's not the lack of it, but the way it's presented, which is precisely why--and you nailed this point--iphones sell. Of course, as I mentioned previously, most winmo users are at least prosumers, so they know what to do without all the oversimplifications.
Jblakk--
I get what you're saying about comparing the two, but I have to disagree. The Fuze is brand new, but essentially Fuze is to, say, an HTC Wizard as iPhone 3G is to iPhone. That's to say, it's not new, it's merely a refinement of what's come before.
And Fuze gets a lot right, I know, just as iPhone gets a lot wrong. Yes, it's judgmental to point out the strengths and weaknesses of the fuze, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Judging is a natural and appropriate action for humans, and I'd argue we should judge more, not less (but in a rational way, not an emotional "I'll kill you for disagreeing" way). That's philosophy though, and I'm just talking phone/PDA's
I realize that Apple has final say on the app store, but from what I can see it appears that they aren't being too tyrannical about the content. There are literally thousands of apps available, and so far I've filled up 5 screens worth of apps I wanted to try out. It was easy to find them, easy to install them, and for the ones I didn't quite like, it was easy to kick them to the curb.
I have to say you're dead on about cut/paste and video recording. I can't even imagine how they left those out, especially cut and paste. I mean does it get any more basic than cut and paste? . Hopefully that will be resolved soon, I can't imagine it's all that complicated.
My point here has never been to say that the Fuze is super terrible and iPhone is the uber shizz; clearly both phones have their strengths, and both have their weaknesses. Right now, based on my experience with both and coming off the still-my-overall-favorite-phone-to-date the HTC Wizard, I feel that where the iPhone leads is entirely in the execution of the software. Windows Mobile 6 is barely a step above 5 (in fact, it IS 5 if you get right to it, 5.2.xxxx) and it's really showing its age.
I think a reasonable argument could be made that the Fuze hardware deserves better than what Windows Mobile's current incarnations have to offer. However, as I mentioned, I do think the miracle workers at XDA will pull some sweet tricks out of their hats eventually and make the fuze pretty damn sweet. And if Microsoft follows its usual pattern, WM7 will finally catch up to iPhone's OS and probably refine and improve on it in various ways. It'll be exciting to see what happens on that front
@g2tl-- Gecko seems like a great idea, I really hope they make some good progress. I hadn't heard of that before, but I'll definitely be following their progress from here on out! Thanks for the heads up!
As for getting what you pay for, that's almost always true but I think there's an exception here. On the fuze you're getting more impressive hardware, but you're getting a much less polished piece of software that's quite outdated and difficult to manage by modern standards. Now, I'm a 13 year IT geek (good lord, did I just admit that?) so I've never been afraid of getting my hands dirty, and goodness knows it's a miracle my old 8125 survived all the flashing I did to it, but at a certain point it's nice for a device to just *work* without a lot of dicking around with it.
I am sure WinMo will eventually be that software, probably with WinMo7. It's just not there yet, and I think the real shame of that is that an awesome device like the Fuze (or any flavor of the touch pro for that matter) won't really be used to its full potential because the software is lagging so far behind the device itself.
Tim, I do get all that, and you're exactly right. I also think that's where a great many of the problems with WinMo come from, the fact that carriers can just shovel piles and piles of junk onto these phones just drags down the user experience.
I'd say maybe Microsoft needs to put out their own phone where they can present a coherent experience (their new Xbox Live interface is friggin' awesome), but then I'm sure we'd have a lot of crying foul from assorted carriers and competitors who cry monopoly. There's probably no easy solution from a development and implementation standpoint, but from a consumer standpoint it's actually fairly easy: go buy the device that offers what you need.
Right now for me--and surprisingly so because I never imagined buying one of these until 2 days ago--that device appears to be iPhone. I truly do hope for a WinMo7 device or even a Fuze WinMo7 hack that'll win me back eventually. I still love the dark side
jason - Suggestion for you, as this is finally what has made me very happy with my Fuse. Probably a little too late as you're running an I-Phone.
Think about this: You were a Wizard user. When you upgraded, you probably wanted a better camera, more power, and 16 gig storage options. You were probably running an OC'd cooked rom WITHOUT TouchFlo.
Here's my suggestion.
Starting from scratch, I have the phone I wanted after about an hour's work. TouchFlo 3D just continues to piss me off. The only nice things about it were the picture viewer, weather, and the music setup. However, I have music controls on my BT Headset, and I'll probably go find the HTC Music player / plugin tonite. I have HTC picture viewer installed in an out of the way place for the rare times I look at my pics. I'll figure something out for the weather option, tho I've lived without it for a number of years.
Thinking about it, it all kinda makes sense. PC users build PC's and use Windows because we know exactly what we want and how we want it. We don't put flashy, pointless bull**** interfaces up front to slow things down. (at least pre-Vista, anyways.)
Still tho, the Raphael and Diamond needed a different control pad and button set. Macs were built around the idea that an average idiot (no offense to MacFags) could just use something. PC's are designed with a bunch of buttons because PCFags will customize that to do awesome stuff.
jasongw said:
Jblakk--
I get what you're saying about comparing the two, but I have to disagree. The Fuze is brand new, but essentially Fuze is to, say, an HTC Wizard as iPhone 3G is to iPhone. That's to say, it's not new, it's merely a refinement of what's come before.
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I'll have to dissagree with you there, as the hardware is so different, it's a copletely different device. I came from the Hermes(8525) and it's not even close to the same(and I did love my heremes)
And Fuze gets a lot right, I know, just as iPhone gets a lot wrong. Yes, it's judgmental to point out the strengths and weaknesses of the fuze, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Judging is a natural and appropriate action for humans, and I'd argue we should judge more, not less (but in a rational way, not an emotional "I'll kill you for disagreeing" way). That's philosophy though, and I'm just talking phone/PDA's
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I think what I said just came out wrong. I think over-critical would have been more accurate. I think that we look at things in perspective, and make decisions based on our needs. While I know that neither device is perfect(what one is?) we just need for figure out what job does the job best for us, and makes us happy.
I realize that Apple has final say on the app store, but from what I can see it appears that they aren't being too tyrannical about the content. There are literally thousands of apps available, and so far I've filled up 5 screens worth of apps I wanted to try out. It was easy to find them, easy to install them, and for the ones I didn't quite like, it was easy to kick them to the curb.
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Don't forget that not all of thoes apps are free, and you don't get demos of stuff try make sure they work as advertised. I have friends that nickle and dime themselves too death due to the app store. I don't think the idea is bad idea by any means though.
I have to say you're dead on about cut/paste and video recording. I can't even imagine how they left those out, especially cut and paste. I mean does it get any more basic than cut and paste? . Hopefully that will be resolved soon, I can't imagine it's all that complicated.
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iPhone users have been asking for thoes 2 functions for well over a year, and they all say...Its comming soon...for a year now. I'm guessing that Mr. Jobs doesnt want you to have it for some reason.
My point here has never been to say that the Fuze is super terrible and iPhone is the uber shizz; clearly both phones have their strengths, and both have their weaknesses. Right now, based on my experience with both and coming off the still-my-overall-favorite-phone-to-date the HTC Wizard, I feel that where the iPhone leads is entirely in the execution of the software. Windows Mobile 6 is barely a step above 5 (in fact, it IS 5 if you get right to it, 5.2.xxxx) and it's really showing its age.
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I won't dissagree with you on that. 6.1 was a bigger improvement that 5 to 6 was. Hopping that 6.5 will get the boost it very much needs. And don't ever forget that Touchflo 3D was HTCs way of hiding the windows interface, due to its seriously unfrendlyness. But also remember that iPhone was geared towards the casual Multi-media use, and the Fuze is aimed towards the average power user.
I think a reasonable argument could be made that the Fuze hardware deserves better than what Windows Mobile's current incarnations have to offer. However, as I mentioned, I do think the miracle workers at XDA will pull some sweet tricks out of their hats eventually and make the fuze pretty damn sweet. And if Microsoft follows its usual pattern, WM7 will finally catch up to iPhone's OS and probably refine and improve on it in various ways. It'll be exciting to see what happens on that front
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I will agree with that. But just like the arguement over PC vs mac, it's not a fair comparison. It needs to be Dell XPS vs Mac, or Toshiba Satalite vs Mac. There is no such thing as a PC (technicaly a Mac is a PC too...Personal Computer). And Apple has the unfair advantage of only writing software for papriatary hardware, where Microsoft has to write software for millions of combinations of hardware, and in the end it's all about drivers.
In the end, see what serves your needs best, but I do not think that the Fuze will drive anyone to be iPhone users. With the Fuzes lack of advertising, and the Apple's Mind numbing advetising, I think that people that look at the fuze as an option already have the mindset that the iPhone just will not do what they need.
In advance let me say thanks to everyone for having such a civil discussion. I am thoroughly impressed and appreciative. I was *sure* somebody would have come in with the raving and yelling attitude by now and I've happily been proven wrong. I REALLY appreciate that; flame wars got old and boring a loooong time ago IMHO
@Fatheadpi,
Thank you for the suggestion. At some point in the future I hope to get another fuze or perhaps its successor. Of course, by then I hope for WM7 and an actual answer to the ease of use features in iPhone (I'm still a PC guy at heart, I'd love to see Apple get ***** slapped at their own game). Suffice to say, unless AT&T cleans up its act (which I doubt, they never did do right by Wizard users and it was only XDA cookers who made that device be all that it could be) I am sure that the Fuze will continue to be a "Cooked ROMs only" device.
@JBlakk,
Wow, what a nice response . I won't go point by point, but I think you've made a lot of good points, and I agree with many. Hell, I still build my own PC's (I've only recently started using Vista though, and I mostly hate it so I turn off almost all the fancy crap).
Also I think you definitely have a point about the marketing aspect and who the fuze is (or at least ought to be) targeted toward. I'd make the argument though that if AT&T is targeting the "power user" they still missed the mark with the software by loading it will all that ridiculous bloat.
I like the appearance of TouchFlo3D, but man the performance is just sad, especially on such a high end piece of phone hardware. My biggest gripe is absolutely in the software execution, but I am, to reiterate again, quite confident that as the ROM's mature and the cookers get their heads around the nuances of the phone itself, we'll see some amazing performance from Fuze.
Thanks again guys! It's been loads of fun
Jason
I'll be civil...
I understand what you are saying, if you just want something that works 99.9% of the time the iPhone is the perfect phone for you. I however like to play with things and no how much I deny it I like finding problems and fixing them, and Microsoft's products are perfect for that. Also the open source-ness of M$ is another thing that draws me to their products.
I was worried, being an open Apple hater(I have nightmares about getting iPhones for Christmas...), that AT&T would not carry another phone with a touch screen after they signed the deal with Apple. The Touch Pro is/will be perfect for me in that sense. Apple is flashy and pretty, but extremely constrained in the sense that Apple likes to keep it's followers in a choke hold, but that's my opinion too.
I also like the keyboard of the Fuze/Touch Pro/Raphael(Why do they need so many names for the same device?!)
So in short I'm not going to flame you because you chose an Apple product over a M$ one, I honestly don't care as it's your money and your decision. I think the latest Touch Pro's are better than the first release models though...but that could be just speculation.
((Also the lack of cut/copy/paste is an EXTREME drawback for me))
I also went to the darkside (iPhone) after returning my fuze. I have said it in previous posts and to my co-workers that have both iPhones and WinMo devices - it. just. works.
Being an engineer/sys admin by trade I love to tinker and tweak and rip apart and put back together stuff, but in this case the effort it took to get the Fuze/TP to a usable state [for me] wasn't worth it. I am at the stage of my life where I don't have the time to play (7 mo. old will do that to ya).
I wouldn't kick a free or deeply discounted Fuze/TP out of bed, lol, but as many have said, it's what you want out of a device and I needed my device to work out of the box.
That said, so far so good. About 2 trouble-free weeks with the iP3G.
I still come here daily to keep up on the HTC WinMo happenings to satiate my tinker desire. But the iPhone is here to stay - or until WinMo 7 drops at least.
Just wondering why you chose Fuze/Touch-pro over Iphone.
For me 3 major reasons in order of importance:
Size: I just cannot accept the size of an Iphone. I believe in a small device with great capabilities that will nicely fit in my pocket.
Bluetooth Stereo: Bluetooth A2DP support was NOT native to Iphone at that time. Did not want to add and an UGLY connector to get bluetooth music streaming either
Not an Iphone fan boy: Never carried an Ipod nor had a Mac. Its too overrated and is more of a fashion statement. I just cant see the cool factor in Apple products.
Whats your reason?
#1: this forum
#2: can't type texts without a hardware keyboard when i'm drunk
#3: tp is my 3rd htc phone
price would also be a factor
iphones without a tariff is a lot more expensive then a touch pro without a tariff
Welll, in random order
#: xda-devs support
#: custom roms
#: HTC user since 2005
#: size and h/w keyboard
and most of all
#: never was a fan of (maybe powerful but) overrated trendy devices over powerful business ones, end of story.
iPhone may be a "powerful" device, which can provide a similar experience to WM (or even better, that's a subjective matter). However the fact that the device itself is locked, and does not allow you to experience it fully (and I mean things which are supposed to be standard in smartphones, like multitasking) without jailbreaking it, tells me one thing and one thing only: that Apple does not respect it's customers.
For me it was a matter of carrier, and the 5-way navigator, because aside from those factors my Touch Pro is almost the same as an iPhone anyways with all the skins and mods
1. iPhone is 44% higher than my Touch Pro discounted Sprint monthly Everything Plan.
2. iPhone doesn't have a physical keyboard vs. huge Touch Pro keys.
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.
Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.
VibrantRedGT said:
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.
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^^^^THIS^^^^
nagle3092 said:
Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.
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I'm sorry.....but April fools was on the 1st.
For myself it's all of what this guy says (from 3:40-4:00) in this iphone review "The Gadget Show" on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bumP10hUaVs, and more.
When I think of iphone...I can't help of think of the Will Smith movie iRobot. I have thoughts of Apple trying to brain wash me into thinking that it's the only phone I need and I don't need to think for myself because "there's an app for that". It want's me to drop my guard and completely trust that it can run my life with only finger swipes across the screen yet.....it will not let me have a close relationship with by shutting me out of it's inner workings (battery replacement, removable storage). It try's to keep me hanging by a thread just strong enough to stay attached for a new version with "innovative" abilities like "copy and paste". It's true colors are hard to see through it's colorful ads and apps.
1: size
2: its need to always be on the net
3: can't sync calendar, contacts w/out using iTunes, which I cannot stand
4: can't multitask apps
I have both a fuze and an iPhone 3G (from my son when he moved to 3Gs.) Both phones are jail broken, so I decided to use the iPhone with an international SIM while traveling. I was really (&**&(*^( t'd off when I noticed that it always connects, thus incurring international data roaming charges. There's no way to make it not "call home" for one reason or another (checking if there's something new in app store, etc.) unless you tweak connectivity, block almost every app, or install some "firewall" to block all traffic. That just sucks if you travel a lot. ATT warned me, but I didn't think it was that bad.
International roaming data charges are nothing to mess with. I've never used an iphone, but I've heard that many of the apps are web-based widgets. One of the problems with not having things like a native file explorer is that if you download an app, you can't look in program files to see what the hell you just downloaded. You'd know if it was just a web app on winmo pretty easily, but I'm sure it's hard to keep track of everything loaded on an iphone.
I went from an iphone 3G to a Fuze to a 3GS to a Tilt2 back to a Fuze with a Bold 9000 in there at some point as well.
I can't do without the physical keypad. I email on the go a lot with my phone, and I just can't get used to virtual keyboards. Just can't do it. I'm also a sports nut, so browser navigating ability needs to be on point, meaning I need a touch screen. Now, I'll admit the iPhone's capacative touch screen beats the hell out of the pressure sensitive ones, although they'll get a lot better with some of the tweaks and ROMs available. There's no lag when you use the iphone's screen (although the newest ROMs for the Fuze have done a great job closing that gap, but it's still very much present). I miss that and the myriad of apps.
I really do hate Apple, what they did with the priority bandwidth with AT&T, and the fact they can't and absolutely won't support flash, along with that internal battery and no storage card. They could easily provide these features, but they don't simply because they don't HAVE to in order to sell the product. But, the iphone does what it does incredibly well. I'll concede to that.
I went back to the Fuze from my Tilt2 because I was pretty pissed that the hardware wasn't really upgraded much between those models. That was an unpleasant surprise. Also, the Fuze is SOLID. It's a beast, the tracks don't have tight tolerances, and the case is thick with robust corners. Plus, the Android development for the Fuze seemed to be further along than for the Tilt2. Also, when typing on the hardware keyboard for the Raphael, your thumbs do all the moving, and your hands don't. The Rhodium's bigger layout is nicer in that you hit the wrong key much less; however, you're moving your hands a lot too. I didn't like that. ROMs are also getting ridiculously good for WinMo devices.
Let's be honest; what the iPhone does, it does incredibly well, and if I didn't have needs (HW keypad) that it didn't meet, I would still have it, even though the Apple logo itself makes me want to kill a hippie every time I see it.
1. I'm used to Windows Mobile, having used it on a PDA for several years
2. Getting a refurbished Fuze through AT&T with an Employee Purchase and a 2 year contract brought the price of the Fuze down to a rather attractive $0.
Fate was kind to me. I'm glad to have stumbled upon the Fuze.
Mainly the Hardware Keyboard, but all-in-all, I simply love HTC devices.
Oh, and the Hardware Specs were actually pretty good for the Fuze, not the best, but for a device with a hardware keyboard, not bad.
I originally bought my Fuze because of the hardware keyboard. 6 months later, I bought an iPhone 3GS. I liked the Fuze for the most part, I just couldn't take WM anymore. With the stock firmware, my battery would not last a day. Timlol's stock like firmware made the battery life bearable and the device much more usable. But in the end, it was the limitations of WM that made me switch. It is nice having a browser that works, a mail client that can display messages and not move to the next message when you accidently move your finger sideways, a well stocked app store and a touchscreen that actually responds properly to touch.
I still have my Fuze and will use it to play around with the current Android project, but for day to day use as a phone and data device, the iPhone is it.
On your poll it was a hard toss-up between "Hate Apple products" and the "Other options (cooked ROMs, Android etc)".
My biggest factor was that it was more open to open source and cracked (aka free) software, and more moddifications that could be done to the firmware. The reason this could be done is because its not an Apple product.