Database Info

Poor 3G Reception

Treo 750v very Poor 3G reception in buildings and on trains around London.
I have now changed job and work in central London and I have noticed on my route to and from home to central London I loose reception a number of times in various spots but on my TyTN which I took to test had no issues.
I have two Treo 750v and they both are doing it one installed with vodaphone and one Cingular rom. The lady next to me thought I was going mad two mobiles one in each hand and my eyes fixed on the reception bars all the way to London at 6:40am yesterday morning. I have not really noticed any issues with reception before this as around home it works flawlessly and I know it is not related to T-Mobile UK. I missed two calls also and whilst at work, phone on all day I got 3 voicemails. Various reviews on the internet have also said reception is poor on these phones and now it is starting to become a reality the more I use it in different areas.
I tested on the way home I rung my two land lines and spoke to my children and girlfriend on the TyTN and 750v the treo cut out 5 times whilst the TyTN held the connection from start to finish. Testing the 750v set to GSM today the phone cut out 2 so slight improvement I don't know if there will be a fix of some sort i.e. (radio or rom upgrade like the TyTN) over time fingers crossed, There is no difference for reception on the Cingular rom vs. vodaphone. But like anything it could be a hardware problem. I am sure if the treo had an antenna it would be better. First attempt for an antenna less Treo it is a good start. I hope they do a new revision of this Treo or this fault does gets fixed as I love the form factor of this phone far better than the TyTN imo.
Reception set to GSM is far better under band selection, I loose the fast browsing speed abilities of UTMS but call quality is much better overall.
Does anyone else suffer from reception issues related to 3G?
Tmobile
Vodaphone
O2
Sim cards tested in both phones.

I am also experiencing problems on 3G here in the Netherlands. I have some bad reception during calls and also alot of dropped calls when on the move and the phone is trying to fall back from UMTS to GSM.
I am also having some Bluetooth stack problems: the Bluetooth sometimes crashes, even in the middle of a conversation on the carkit. The audio connection gets lost with the parrot carkit.

mkoster007 said:
I am also experiencing problems on 3G here in the Netherlands. I have some bad reception during calls and also alot of dropped calls when on the move and the phone is trying to fall back from UMTS to GSM.
I am also having some Bluetooth stack problems: the Bluetooth sometimes crashes, even in the middle of a conversation on the carkit. The audio connection gets lost with the parrot carkit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issues you are having are just like mine, Not having any bluetooth issues like you mention though. UTMS to GSM is a big problem with the phone it is like it gets confused and then freaks out.
The reception part is really starting to get to me as my main phone it is not doing to well if you know what I mean. I only hope that a software upgrade can fix the issues. I am sure the bluetooth issues will get sorted with an update.

Same here (Italy). Bad 3G reception (Vodafone network): sometimes the 750V switches to GPRS and the call quality is fine, sometimes it doesn't, and it's a pain... I noticed a slight improvement when I upgraded from the original Vodafone ROM to newer Cingular's. Hope this means it's a software-related issue, and can be solved via a ROM upgraded in the future. After all, the 750V is made - like the TyTN - by HTC, so the reception should be more or less the same in both the devices.
Bye,
F.

xxnoelziexx said:
Treo 750v very Poor 3G reception in buildings and on trains around London.
I have now changed job and work in central London and I have noticed on my route to and from home to central London I loose reception a number of times in various spots but on my TyTN which I took to test had no issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With my TyTN (radio 1.16) I get reception on a dead spot where I couldn't get reception with several other phone's (Nokia, SE, Motorola). Much better then with the standard radio 1.03 which didn't work there also. The Palm's reception is somewhere in between, and probably software-related too.

xxnoelziexx said:
The issues you are having are just like mine, Not having any bluetooth issues like you mention though. UTMS to GSM is a big problem with the phone it is like it gets confused and then freaks out.
The reception part is really starting to get to me as my main phone it is not doing to well if you know what I mean. I only hope that a software upgrade can fix the issues. I am sure the bluetooth issues will get sorted with an update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got the same problem. Fixed it by changing the band selection from "automatic" to "gsm". I'll have to change it back whenever I want to access the internet, which is a pain, but at least it's now usable as a phone.

Whats the gprs and 3g reception like?

Hi.
I have a diamond and compared to my vario 2 the reception on gprs and 3g is very poor.
I only need to be about a mile from the mast and reception drops out while my vario 2 still has 2 bars and my friends nokia n95 has 3.
Could anyone try a comparison. I need to know if the radio is better than my diamond before spending a lot of money on the raphael.
Thanks in advance.
Sean.

I have had both devices in a lab environment and the radio performance (at least on the radio versions I tested) was as near identical as makes no difference - as would be expected due to the hardware being practically identical.
Comparing signal strength by number of bars (especially on devices from different vendors!) is an exercise in futility.

dabs said:
Comparing signal strength by number of bars (especially on devices from different vendors!) is an exercise in futility.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Biiiig 2nd. The iPhone 3G's got complained about a lot because "they only have 1 or 2 bars of service" yet the people would never complain of dropped calls or slow data connections. I think the 2.0.1 update did nothing more than lower the signal required to get a bar.

My reception levels seem ok (i.e. bars) but my data speeds feel slow.

I work in London and get HSPA, 3G and GPRS completely fine and of course the unit switches between them accordingly fine! This is on my HTC Touch Pro, but sadly I don't have the Diamond to compare with, but logically it should be the same since same hardware.
FWIW I updated the weather using HSPA whilst on the train this morning without problem, so I guess it's all down to coverage as always! Vodafone are pretty good in London.

b0yce said:
I work in London and get HSPA, 3G and GPRS completely fine and of course the unit switches between them accordingly fine! This is on my HTC Touch Pro, but sadly I don't have the Diamond to compare with, but logically it should be the same since same hardware.
FWIW I updated the weather using HSPA whilst on the train this morning without problem, so I guess it's all down to coverage as always! Vodafone are pretty good in London.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hrm I'm in London too but on T-Mobile. My Kaiser is fine but the Touch Pro is definitely having data issues.
For example, it doesnt always initiate a data session when you need one, like whne you want to refresh your RSS or sync email etc.

Syphon Filter said:
Hrm I'm in London too but on T-Mobile. My Kaiser is fine but the Touch Pro is definitely having data issues.
For example, it doesnt always initiate a data session when you need one, like whne you want to refresh your RSS or sync email etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to hear that, hopefully a ROM update (more specifically the Radio) will help you out! As always, the first ROM versions can be a bit funny which later versions iron out!
Out of coincidence, when you first started your Touch Pro, did you automatically set the settings according to the Network when prompted or did you perform this manually? I did this automatically as set by Vodafone network and all seems well!

b0yce said:
Sorry to hear that, hopefully a ROM update (more specifically the Radio) will help you out! As always, the first ROM versions can be a bit funny which later versions iron out!
Out of coincidence, when you first started your Touch Pro, did you automatically set the settings according to the Network when prompted or did you perform this manually? I did this automatically as set by Vodafone network and all seems well!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Auto configured as usual...

Also in London, on Vodafone, and I'm going to say that the Raphael is pretty much identical for signal strength as the Diamond. Not found any places where it won't work yet (rail tunnels excepted). 3G signal still isn't available inside my house. But it never was with any phone.
I never had any problem with the Kaiser, Hermes, Universal, Magician, or any other device. All the reflashing of Radio ROM's that goes on around here for an extrordinarily marginal (and subjective) improvment completely baffles me...!
@Syphon Filter - My wife is on T-Mobile with an original Touch. Can't get a signal in our house at all unless she hangs out of the window or stands in the garden, but that's T-Mobile in South-East London for you...

Oh that's bad news. I was hoping the different housing could give the Raphael some improvement on 3G reception.
The Diamonds 3G reception is definitely worse then the reception quality of my TyTN and if the Raphael is identical to the Diamond...

foo said:
Oh that's bad news. I was hoping the different housing could give the Raphael some improvement on 3G reception.
The Diamonds 3G reception is definitely worse then the reception quality of my TyTN and if the Raphael is identical to the Diamond...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, it's all subjective. I've never ever struggled for 3G reception on my Diamond in any location where my Hermes (TyTN) worked. Even in low signal areas, the Diamond has never failed me.
Admittedly speaker volume was better on the Hermes, but that's a different matter...

Well it's not that subjective because it's simply counting bars.
Where Diamond shows 1 bar, TyTN shows 2 bars - same location, same time, same network.

foo said:
Well it's not that subjective because it's simply counting bars.
Where Diamond shows 1 bar, TyTN shows 2 bars - same location, same time, same network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But how do you know that 1 Diamond bar doesn't equal 2 Tytn bars?

hi
I understand about the bars but the problem is how far from the transmitter you can use the phone.
There are many places where I can make calls and use the interner on my tytn bus I can't on my diamond.
at work I can walk about and have a conversation with no problems on my tytn but with my diamond I can only use it by a window.
listening to internet radio while driving is no problem with the tytn but with the diamond I keep having to restart the stream at various places when I lose the signal completely.
This is why a comparison would be helpful
Thanks to everyone so far for the feedback on this

nuttyphilt said:
But how do you know that 1 Diamond bar doesn't equal 2 Tytn bars?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is of course a valid argument, but I also experienced, that the Diamond did not switch to 3G without forcing it by setting because of this weak 1 bar reception quality while the TyTN automatically switched to 3G.
So it seems that also the software internally assumed that the reception is too weak for 3G.
I would assume that the reception indicator is quite comparable between different HTC devices as the same operating system and the same manufacturer is involved.

Don't think I can add anything more to this discussion, on the basis that all of my 3G HTC devices have performed almost identically even in weaker signal areas.
I must just be very lucky? Best of luck to the rest of you though.

For me connection is definitely very very similar between the touch pro and tytn II. However I do think that the point at which is switches of 3g, becauase it doesn't think there is a good enough connection, may well be too early. It definitely seems to switch between 3g and gprs more often than the tytn II. Hopefully this can be fixed quite easily with an update.

Mine's going back.
My Hermes and Kaiser never lose the network in my house. My Touch Pro is constantly on and off. All with T-Mobile SIMs.
Shame 'cos it looks like a great device.

I have two phones here. TYTN II and a Raphael. Both on T-Mobile UK
The trusty TYTN II has 3 bars and always shows a 'H' whilst the Raphael is drifting from 'G' to 'H' and 1 bar occasionally losing a signal altogether.
I really want to like this phone but I might have to keep using the old one till HTC sort this out

I have both the Diamond and the Raphael side by side on the same network (Vodafone) and the signal strength is exactly the same.

AT&T don't recognize the x7510 - dose it matter?

When sitting in my office at home with my x7510 and HTC TyTN both cradled on my desk it is often the case that the TyTN will be showing a 3G signal whilst the x7510 is only showing an E. I took both to my nearest AT&T store and they were glad to swop out the SIM card on the x7510 for a new one. However, the AT&T system did not recognize the x7510 by reference to the IMEI number, whilst the TyTN was recognized as being a 8525. Consequently my TyTN was listed in their system as a 3G compatible device, but the x7510 was listed as only an Edge/GPRS capable device.
They recommended that I contact AT&T technical on the phone as they did not have the capacity to change the status of the phone locally.
Does anyone know whether it matters what is listed on AT&T's system. In other places (at my work office) I can get a U and sometimes an H on the x7510, but as I type this the TyTN shows 3G and the x7510 just a E, and they are both less than a foot apart and the x7510 is closer to the window!

robjhellis said:
When sitting in my office at home with my x7510 and HTC TyTN both cradled on my desk it is often the case that the TyTN will be showing a 3G signal whilst the x7510 is only showing an E. I took both to my nearest AT&T store and they were glad to swop out the SIM card on the x7510 for a new one. However, the AT&T system did not recognize the x7510 by reference to the IMEI number, whilst the TyTN was recognized as being a 8525. Consequently my TyTN was listed in their system as a 3G compatible device, but the x7510 was listed as only an Edge/GPRS capable device.
They recommended that I contact AT&T technical on the phone as they did not have the capacity to change the status of the phone locally.
Does anyone know whether it matters what is listed on AT&T's system. In other places (at my work office) I can get a U and sometimes an H on the x7510, but as I type this the TyTN shows 3G and the x7510 just a E, and they are both less than a foot apart and the x7510 is closer to the window!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What shows in the ATT System does not matter my Athena does not show in the system and I get 3G speeds. Possible that the TyTN has a more sensitive radio? Or maybe the 7510 did not step up to 3g automatically?

actually I'm almost in the same situation as u do, my kaiser gave me about 2 bars of 3G when I'm inside the office at work, but my athena gives me only edge in the same place.
i don't think it's anything wrong with AT&T's network but it's the athena itself. the antena my be a little bit low on sensitivity than the kaiser.
or it could also be a radio issue or a combination of both.
well thinking about it, it could well be a network issue, because would usually get 2 bar edge in the office, i called them up and it went up a couple levels then to engineers and now I'm getting 3 bars edge and sometimes 1 or 2 bars 3G.
If i go by the window or outside and catch the 3G then head back inside it stays a lot lot longer now.

lennie said:
actually I'm almost in the same situation as u do, my kaiser gave me about 2 bars of 3G when I'm inside the office at work, but my athena gives me only edge in the same place.
i don't think it's anything wrong with AT&T's network but it's the athena itself. the antena my be a little bit low on sensitivity than the kaiser.
or it could also be a radio issue or a combination of both.
well thinking about it, it could well be a network issue, because would usually get 2 bar edge in the office, i called them up and it went up a couple levels then to engineers and now I'm getting 3 bars edge and sometimes 1 or 2 bars 3G.
If i go by the window or outside and catch the 3G then head back inside it stays a lot lot longer now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For my Athena I know the radio ROM can contribute to this situation, since I don't have a 7510 is there a radio upgrade for your device? If so it may solve this problem.

No Radio upgrade to my knowledge for the x7510. Lennie to clarify, you did contact AT&T Engineer support and got something done to improve the signal?

Make sure you are using radio rom 1.58. My 3G sensitivity and speeds went up dramatically when I upgraded to 1.58.

Thanks for the input. For clarification the x7510 comes with radio 1.58 pre-installed.

Odd. I wonder if you have a hardware issue. With my 7501, after I upgraded to 1.58 I now get 3G/H signals where I never could before, deep inside a steel and concrete building.
I have the network type and GSM/UMTS band both set to Auto.

3G AT&T Calls on Fuze: Not Reliable!

I wanted to start this thread to discuss making and receiving phone calls on AT&T's 3G network. I find that making and receiving phone calls while connected to 3g or HSDPA is very unreliable on my Fuze. The phone seems to always connect to H whenever there is any signal available, even if the signal is very low and unreliable.
I will sometimes recieve a call while connected to H and the person cannot hear me at all. I'll look at the phone to see that the H signal strength is very low. Instead of smoothly switching to Edge, the phone completely loses signal and drops the call. After having no signal for around 10 seconds, it will then reconnect to Edge and have 2 or more bars of service. Why couldn't it just switch to Edge without dropping my call? Any why hang on to an HSDPA connection if signal is unusably low?
I see other AT&T customers with 3G phones (Bold, iPhone) and they don't seem to have this same issue. Their phones can remain in 3g mode and work just fine. My only choice seems to leave 3G turned off, but switch it on when I need a fast data connection (a terrible solution).
I used to have Verizon and they just connect you to both their 3g and 2g networks at the same time, you can even see 2 signal meters on most phones. They use the 3G (EVDO) for data and 2G(1xRTT) for voice or data, when 3G is unavailable. Why can't my Fuze do the same thing on AT&T? Clearly, 3G doesn't penetrate building as well as 2G and the phone needs to use both, seamlessly, to work properly.
Just for background, I am using a Fuze with the latest EnergyROM and Radio 1.14.25.35 and matching Rilphone.dll. I have noticed this behavior with other roms and other radios also. I can't remember how stock worked since I haven't had it in such a long time.
Does anyone else notice the same behavior as me and does anyone have any ideas on how to improve the way the phone manages 3G vs Edge during phone calls?
Thanks in advance for anyone who can help me understand and resolve this problem.

different radio
Drop into the ROM section, hit the radio thread. I found better luck dumping the stock radio on the Fuze, and installed a different one.

Any particular one that you recommend? Ideally, a radio that doesn't use 3g unless signal is reasonably strong would be best. Ive tried all of the official Fuze ones without any change in the behavior I described at all. Based on your signature, it seems you are currently using the same radio as I am...

TheSopranos16 said:
Any particular one that you recommend? Ideally, a radio that doesn't use 3g unless signal is reasonably strong would be best. Ive tried all of the official Fuze ones without any change in the behavior I described at all. Based on your signature, it seems you are currently using the same radio as I am...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found the newest Xperia radio (1.16.25.48) to be very satisfactory as far as signal strength goes - in fact I had more bars of 3G and dropped a lot less calls because of it. However, you need to be Security Unlocked to flash your phone with that radio. The only problem with the Xperia radio I had was the pitiful GPS accuracy.

sopranos16 where are you located? There are a few cities where users have been complaining about the 3G network. NYC/Northern NJ and San Fransisco are two that come to mind. Check on howardforums.
I'm now using a Fuze because AT&T shipped to to me to replace my Bold which will drop 5-15 calls a day in NYC. I don't believe it is a problem with the Bold, I have other lines with 3G that have problems. But this is the solution they offered so I'll try it.
You cal also check the at&t support forums as there are plenty of complaints there too. I just got the fuze and haven't really tried it yet. See what happens on Monday.

I'm located in central New Jersey: Monmouth County. Edge coverage is pretty good but 3G tends to always have a weaker signal strength and occasionally drops out, especially indoors.

Well the first day in lower Manhattan and not one dropped call. I'll let you know what happens later in the week.

bump
soprano, did you try the xperia radio? Let us know, I have had this issue for a while now...and your explanation was on the head.
Think I may just go ahead and security unlock my phone.

[Q] Fuze bad reception tips? (Solved - HW issue fixed)

[Edit: See post # 7 for hardware fix that solved my problem]
I need help with improving calling reception on the used AT&T Fuze I bought for use on the TMobile USA network, specifically North-Eastern USA (NYC metro area).
I have SIM unlocked the phone (thanks to purchased unlocker from Olipro), I have flashed with several ROMs (starting with NRG's EnergyRom "photon" series), and I have tried various Radios and matching ril dlls. It surprises me just how bad reception is. In areas that my old T-Mobile Wing (a.k.a HTC Herald)gets almost full signal, the Fuze fluctuates from three "bars" down to none, with the signal being lost and reacquired constantly. I have tried "locking" the band to 850 and 1900 GSM (which is what Tmo USA uses) with little effect.
I'm at a lost. I have tried searching this forum, but several posts are related to AT&T network (understandably as it is an AT&T phone) and issues with TMobile UK reception (which is supposedly bad). For the most part, it looks like TMobile USA should have great reception in general in my area..... but I don't. I know my area has coverage by looking at other phones, just not my Fuze.
Can anyone from the NYC Metro area (mostly northern NY area) who has successfully connected the Fuze to Tmobile help me? What ROM and Radio combo worked best for you?
Plus, can anyone with experience tell me if it is possible that my phone has a hardware problem. Could there be something wrong with the antenna? How could I test this, and or fix this if it is hardware?
(Note: I am referring to regular GSM signal. I know that there is no 3G for me due to unsupported 1700 3G radio band.)
Thanks.
Nonpaq

Radios I have tried are:
Ralp 1.10.25.18
Ralp 1.14.25.35
BS 1.17.25.09
Quartz 1.11.25.01
X1 1.10.25.18
Each was tried with the default RIL in ROM and the version specific RIL (when available). All have been identical with poor GSM reception.
Has anyone been successful with using the FUZE on TMobile in northeastern US?
Another question: Does keeping a radio for longer period of time help improve the signal locking, as if the tower and phone need to "learn" about each other? I remember old non-smartphones used to have to have their list of available towers updated so that the phone could recognize newer, closer towers. I assume that this is no longer the case.
Plus: Fieldtest shows occasionally the GSM 850 band is used, but most of the time the band is listed as "PCS". Is that the GSM 1900 band? I believe that Tmobile mostly uses 1900 in this area as well as 850. Is it possible I am not seeing the 1900 band?
-nonpaq

I have the Fuze on T-mobile as well. I am in the SouthEast and have good luck with Radio 1.14.25.05. I've tried them all. This Radio I've used for almost 5 months now; good reception, good GPS, good batery. Try it, with matching rilphone ofcourse. good luck.

Well I loaded up Energy Titanium latest build (Nov 10) and had radio version 1.17.25.09 from before, and all of a sudden I was getting 3 to occasionally 4 "bars" in my home (previously I would get two "bars" max). It would occasionally drop and rescan for signal but not often. Outside had a solid lock on the signal.
I thought I finally found the perfect combo, but unfortunately when I got to work, indoors, 40 miles away from home, it was the same ol' story. Mostly no signal lock, with an occasional 1 bar signal.
Watching FieldTest data is interesting though. While scanning for signal, I can see the NCell info get data, which I understand are cell towers the phone "sees" but are not locked in. It fluctuates from 1 to 6 towers seen, down to none with the phone not moving. The receive strength reported for these towers varies from -106 dbm to -97 dbm, but does not lock on to the signal. (I occasionally get GPRS lock with zero bars). Can anyone explain this to me.
Plus, can any of these reception problems be related to using an AT&T phone on the T-Mobile system, preventing the towers from allowing a lock? I always thought that the SIM card's IMEI controlled access, but could tmobile somehow lock out unknown phone models?

tt1114 said:
I have the Fuze on T-mobile as well. I am in the SouthEast and have good luck with Radio 1.14.25.05. I've tried them all. This Radio I've used for almost 5 months now; good reception, good GPS, good battery. Try it, with matching rilphone ofcourse. good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I flashed the Radio 1.14.25.05 and installed the matching RIL version and now I'm getting a lock of 1 "bar" where previously I did not. Fieldtest shows the same signal strengths as before for Neighboring Cell Towers [NCells] except now it is locking onto a signal of -105 dBm or better. (I even got 2 "bars" at -103 dBm ) According to the ARFCN field , it is now locking into the 1900 band (CNs in the 600s) where previously it would only lock into the 850 band (CNs in the 100s).
Looks good so far as I can actually get phone calls now!!! Thanks for the recommendation. (By the way... it looks like the signal gets better as time passes. By the time I finished this post, the phone is showing a steady 2 "bars").

My saga continues.....
My two bars at work were short lived. Signal is now back to 1 or no bars. I am going to experiment with some of the older radios.
Heres an interesting thing. I experimented with another persons AT&T SIM card and reception was great!! From the same location, AT&T gives "Full Signal" yet TMobile gives barely 1 bar and cannot hold onto the signal. Now I realize that the TMobile towers might be located further than the AT&T towers causing the difference in signal levels, but if not that, what else can cause one to be so much better than the other. (Keep in mind, my other TMobile phone, the HTC herald, gets great service, as does the other person's regular AT&T phone. So I know there is service here.)
I know the ROMs are not service specific, but are the radios optimized for particular services. Is there any radio that may be more generic, or optimized for the 850/1900 GSM band that TMobile USA uses?

I fixed my bad reception problems with my fuze on TMobile USA. It turns out that it was a hardware issue, the antenna was not making a good contact to the circuit board.
I opened my Fuze by removing the four screws under the back cover. Then use a flat plastic "stick" to separate the casing from the keyboard (careful, the back speaker is connected by a short wire from the circuit board to the back plate.) The GSM antenna is at the bottom (looks like black tape from the outside back). It connects to the circuit board by contact tabs that touch when the back plate is on. What I did was slightly lift these tab "fingers" so that they extended a little more. The theory is that when I reconnect the back plate they will press harder on the contacts on the other side.
After putting everything back together, I'm getting full service where previously I got only two bars.
If you have bad reception, and you are not afraid of voiding your warantee and cracking open your phone's case, you should try this simple fix. I recommend looking up the disassembly guide as there are several potential problems you need to be careful of. First, the back speaker wire can easily be broken. Second there is a main circuit board and a smaller daughter board which can separate. There are two connectors, a large one about the middle of the phone, and a small on on the side. Make sure both are connected (pressed together) before reassembling the phone case.
Let me know if this is useful for you. I can put together a step by step guide if you want. Just PM me.

where did you get the radio 1.14.25.05?
where can i find this radio with the matching RIL???
thank you im also having the same trouble with my htc fuze for t-mobile