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I been using the iphone today.....what a smooth operator...everything just flows...the page animations the opening of applications...the look and feel, the way touch works. The typing (mind you Cooteks Touch and icontact is on par with it )very impressive...it even takes batter pictures than the cruise and its only got a 2meg camera...using my cruise everything is laggy....I cant wait for the drivers or update. If people like larna and others can do wonders to the speed of applications then what the hell are original developers and manufacturers doing. I say thank you for this forum...If HTC/Microsoft had been thorough as Apple was with the iphone the cruise/WM would be a different beast altogether.
I think Microsoft must be going through what Mercedes and BMW went through when the first Lexus model came out and caught them sleeping.
Nice phone the iphone but very limited when compared to ours....but things could change.
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
I think a capacitive Display would help much. I'm often not sure if pressing a soft button worked. That makes working on it feeling laggy (beside slow program starts).
The WM developers have ignored any work on the UI for years. Now they got payback, the WM UI looks like an ugly Windows 95 UI and is totally outdated.
You can see that a smooth UI is possible by looking at pointui.
But do not forget the WM advantages.
All the availabe software, for example WMwifirouter.
That on iphone? I think it will never be...
Agreed....I can only fault Microsoft in Slow Deveopement....whereas the Manufacturers trying to make everyhing generic compatible instead of optimizing....now if they even aimed for the latter, no only would our devices be useably versatile, they would be decently fast and efficient.
We can only hope that WM7 will better developed for touch and hopefully not a memory hogger ...aka Vista.
On June 2008 the rumor say we will have a 3G Iphone + integrated GPS + open SDK. All for not more than $500 USD.
Nobody will touch the touch cruise with a stick at that point (unless the price will be reduced to $250, or something close). So I believe we're going to see new phones from HTC pretty soon.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
Noam23 said:
With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
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I hate to say it but I think he's right.
I can and only will speak for myself, even though that may be the case for everyone else as well; but I use a WM based device because of the software. While the iPhone is faster, better looking, smoother flowing...as of right now it is locked down and requires hacks just to browse the file system!!
TheOnly1 said:
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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If you are reffering to the current iPhone, i would have to say you are DEAD on. However, if the new one lives up to what people are saying about it (an SDK, gps, 3g),
Then apple would have successfully created something that achieves both outcomes: A cool device with a fast, smooth flowing UI WITH functionality and productivity.
remoh said:
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
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Click to collapse
Actually, it is up to the OEMs, not microsoft, to optimize windows mobile for each of their devices. This is where HTC fails time after time in my mind.
Microsoft gives them every opportunity to implement things accelerated graphics, among other things. HTC does not do it!!
And then has the audacity to blame the customers for buying devices based on their chipsets instead of what is actually implemented (or NOT implemented -- LOL).
Since my last HTC purchase of the Touch Cruise, which cost me almost $900 I am extremely upset and dissapointed, not to mention disillusioned. The kaiser and the TC could have been great, but HTC did not want them to be -- they are slow, clunky, unresponsive at times, and i don't see why HTC even put a camera on them 'cause the pictures and video are better left not being captured at all.
If the new iphone lives up to it's promises, i see no reason to ever purchase, nor use another htc product ever again. That is the thing though...Apple is one of those companies I just do not trust and/or like....but just having the possibility of a device like the new iphone will keep my interest peaked!
If everything goes as planned, I believe that mobile developers will definately take advantage of the SDK.
While it will take many months for all the developers out there to create good applications, it will happen.
I'll actually go as far as saying that iPhone software will in fact exceed that of WM software in the future -- Provided that apple releases a decent sdk and does not place absurd restrictions on developers.
Think about it...how long have WM devices been out for...and what is their popularity?
Compare that to how long the iPhone has been out for, and it's popularity...
While currently they are for two completely different concepts;
one for user friendly every day usage, and one a "business" device...
apple seems to be combining both concepts into something that I would consider a "dream" device that I have been waiting for from HTC to put out for years now.
I thought that the TC would in fact be something closely resembling my "dream" device -- And after I actually used it and saw all of the problems with it first hand, I quickly recognized I was completly wrong.
Let's see if Apple can successfully accomplish what HTC has consistently set out to -- and subsequently failed to do so many times.
If they can pull this off, I will definately consider myself a proud iphone owner / user.
i have to admit the only reason i did not buy an iphone its because i did not want to switch to at&t and evryone where i work has one. i just wanted something different so i bought the touch cruise. i am regreting it even as i type. 700plus usd down the drain. when the new iphone is out this summer i am definitely getting one and switching to at&t
i wish i could get my hands on one of the htc developers. i would beat the life out of him. for real. i am mad and pissed. even the clone iphone, the hiphone which i saw with my own two eyes and held in my hands is better than touch cruise. its only 200usd
There are a lot of Touch user using WM device not having too many complaint. I like UI and build of iPhone, but I never forget the experience what smart phone of Nokia and Sony Ericsson running in Symbian. People will just imagine what Apple will enhance the iPhone and offer what we have used in WM device. Just like people asking why manufacturer not offering VGA device. Why don't have a look of the delay of Sony Ericsson X1? Keep an eye on what Apple implement the SDK into their iPhone and software developer introduce program, and to compare what we have with WM device. Looking forward to have a device running in X OS with VGA display with weeks of power with plenty choice of softwares .... and lastly without lag. Just like years ago we are looking for a VGA WM device. Manufacturer like HTC will make such device if it can.
Are you guys serious about the Touch Cruise camera being poor? It has one of the best cameras I've ever seen on a mobile, save for the lack of flash.
-3 Megapixels
-Autofocus
-Excellent macro mode (try taking a picture of anything close up (~3inches) with this vs. a normal camera under normal lighting...TC holds its own, or better yet take a picture of something close up and compare those results to those of an IPhone)
-Auto switch to night mode in poor lighting (remember camcorders with night mode also exhibit lag in night mode, but normal cameras don't lag as they don't use a night mode since they have a flash!)
I must agree with Sonus on the camera. I actually printed out some pictures I took with my TC and they were pretty much OK on paper.
i do believe the tc is a very good device with advantages and disadvantages same as the iphone.
the thing that annoys me most (also while writing this text) the input lags in the touch keyboard or other apps, e.g. switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.
the good things are:
100% customization
tons of apps - navigation, wlm etc
lastly, i have see the iphone hanging - it could not connect immediately to wifi
I'm positive Apple is not going to put HTC out of business on June 2008, when the 3G iphone is supposedly coming out.
HTC will definitely release formidable competition on fall 2008, probably the dream machines we always wanted to have. My only complaint is that the Touch Cruise / Kaiser have the hardware to be much of that "dream machine", but aren't so because HTC doesn't think it is necessary since these products are competitive enough as it is, in today's market.
I agree with the only1.
Just think of it in business terms, the iphone and touch cruise are aimed at different markets. HTC could probably produce a iphone type device but why should it. HTC devices are more business orientated and sold as such, they are not (imho) trying to compete with consumer based ideas and what looks sexy when playing music or videos. They are aimed at different markets.
If people want a device to look good show off pictures and videos and play music they buy a iphone, for gods sake its a ipod touch that makes calls, so no comparison.
If people want to do all of the above and have a device that can be used as a great business tool buy a touch cruise.
Okay there are some faults but they will probably be fixed on the next device but that too will have its shortcomings and we will give out **** about it and compare it to the newest goddam wonderful iphone, jphone, kphone or whatever with hdtv or can make coffee but thats life. I know we paid big money for what we have but for jaysus sake its "not ****en dark". i.e. you could see what your were buying.
Just my opinion.
A bit strong maybe but thats life.
I dont know what you guys have done to your devices to make the camera so good, but unless i am taking pictures outside when it is sunny out, it will NOT come out clearly at all -- it is very distorted and grainy, not to mention it slows down to a crawl! I have a sony cybershot 2.1 MP camera from 2002 that takes better pictures than a TC cam -- and it cost about 150$ 6 years ago. When its dark or indoors, the LCD on the cybershot doesn't slow down to 1-5 FPS.
Now people say that the TC is a business device and that's true.
But, I for one am sick of trading off functionality for performance on the business devices produced from HTC.
Why can't it be both at the same time?
Unfortuneately, I did go in the dark on this one. Before I bought the TC I didn't research the video driver problems.
I only looked at the specs, researched the chipset and thought I was getting something that would (at least) out perform my PPC-6700 that I purchased over 3 years ago. I was wrong. I don't think HTC will go out of business...not at all, but i DO think that alot of people are in a similar boat that I am in...betrayed by HTC and will continue to hold a grudge against them, and subsequently switch to someone who can provide something better in the future...hopefully, that can be Apple...but I definately have some doubts to say the least, considering what the current iPhone came out as -- a Media player with a phone on it.
PseudoReal said:
switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.i
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OMG, i have the SAME problem...it is the WORST!!
you have to tap the stupid triangle like 50 times just to get it to switch.
It's an atrocity. Devices from 3 years ago do not even have this problem.
Business device or not, this is just plain unacceptable.
Unless there is a fix for this problem, or I am doing something wrong and do not know about it?
How many ppl have similar experience?
I have that same problem. Takes multiple clicks and major lag to get the input keyboard to show up. The reason I have to chance keyboards is I often use Opera 9.5 and for some reason none of the Touch keypads work with it, so I have to switch them (I think that's another problem could be related to Opera still being beta). Also every once in awhile I can't get to the PocketCM keyboard and instead get the lame Windows default one. But that also is another problem.
Back to the lag, every once in awhile I will get lag here or there, e.g. will click on the task manager on the top right and not get anything, keep clicking around with no response. Then all of a sudden all the clicks take effect and I will see the task manager menu open and close in succession real quick.
All in all it's a good device, great functionality, just a few quirks here or there. Maybe it's time to hard-reset or flash a new ROM that might solve some of these things, who knows.
Oh forgot, as for the camera lag with the low FPS in low light conditions, check out this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
HTH
thanks for that... the "trick" described in the first post does increase the response by 10 fps or so, but the thing is, the picture quality also goes down...its a lose/lose situation i guess lol...I also noticed that there is a new .dll fix on the HTC E-club, but only for the kaiser. I tried to login but it says theyre doing maintainance right now, so I can't check if there's anything released for the TC...even so I doubt there is
but my issue is, and always has been..why should i need to do all of these tricks and patches for a device that costs as much as the TC does? I shouldn't. No one should.
also another thing that came to my mind...people and HTC say this is a "business device"...so i was thinking, wouldn't business users want their devices to be MORE responsive than a media player / cool trendy "sexy" device?
I mean when you need to wait 5 seconds and tap the screen multiple times to play a music file, it's not really that big of a deal...it's an annoyance yes but it doesn't result in you losing work time..or a loss of productivity
but when you need to tap the X button 5 times to close out of a document and switch to your email...or taking notes and browsing web pages for work related stuff...or trying to switch between SIP's...and having to wait because the device lags worse than windows 95...it becomes a loss of productivity...
even if it's only seconds, those seconds add up, and the annoyances stock pile into one big ball of rage for me at least, heh.
I do admit that my own foolishness and quickness to buy a new device is partly to blame here. I should have looked into it more. But I also think that HTC holds a good part of the blame as well.
hopefully the geniuses here can come up with some good fast custom roms that will deal with these issues...i won't hold my breath waiting for this patch to come out from HTC at the end of the month. I'm doubtful that it will do anything at all.
I am a WM user for 4 years now. My first device was Magician, second one is Polaris and the next one will be Iphone 3G.
I love HTC, they make perfect phones and the price does not bother me, neither lack of video drivers does. I always admired all the latest technologies they include in their phones (3MP camera, 3G+HSDPA, GPS, etc..).
The only thing I don't like in HTC is ... MICROSOFT WINDOWS. I hate using stylus. It is absolutely not user-friendly.
Now, with HSDPA and GPS in Iphone I am willing to sell my polaris. Just after 5 months of using! I used my magician for 3 years before and thought I will keep my new one for another 3 years. But I give up now. I want to buy a brand new Iphone now. Never used apple products before (even Ipod).
So, my question is - do you guys know any forum similar to this one (technical), but related to Iphone stuff?
Thank you for answers and sorry for leaving you in advance.
I understand and do myself feel that we are being cheated, but i say you should search google with " iphone discussion forum" and that search will lead you rightto one, i have seen a few, i dont have an iphone,(i might get one when the video calling gps one comes out.) but i do browse to see what iphone users azre getting up to with there devices.
g oogle is your best friend.
Mate, don't do it. The new iPhone only has a 2 Meg pixel camera, and you'll be tied into some ghastly price plan for life. Wait for the Raphael, which is personally my Holy Grail of phones. Ah, a real keyboard. soooo yummy
I agree about Windows Mobile, it sucks. And the new HTC Flo nonsense looks rubbish aswell, but you know....
Apple announced NOTHING exciting (appart from MobileMe, where the HELL is windows contact/calendar over-the-air synching without Exchange????). But still they gave ir a huge launch. 3G and GPS - big deal!
or the new Samsung i900 Omnia http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i900_omnia-2422.php seems to be very interesting device. I propebly sell my polaris and buy a Iphone or this Samsung. In some way im to bored with the htc policy with their devices, first i have the Trinity and waited if htc could atleast make a wm6 update on trinity..but now way..then Polaris with this driver issue forexample. Polaris may be my last htc device. The only thing which is very good to have a Htc device is this forum or the hole xda developers www site
I'll wait and see what can Android bring out of my Polaris... I like the design of the polaris, and with Android it'll be better... and more finger friendly...
madinga said:
Wait for the Raphael, which is personally my Holy Grail of phones. Ah, a real keyboard. soooo yummy
...
Apple announced NOTHING exciting (appart from MobileMe, where the HELL is windows contact/calendar over-the-air synching without Exchange????). But still they gave ir a huge launch. 3G and GPS - big deal!
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I definitely would not say that the Raphael is the Holy Grail of phones. In fact it is far from it. The raphael is just a Kaiser with a flush screen and prettier touch flo. Big deal, nothing new.
Now I am a huge WinMo fan, but I can still say that the iPhone while it may not be a Holy Grail either, it is still the standard to which all high end phones are being held. It is far from perfect yes, but nonetheless it is the current standard. I'd venture to say that the majority of us that aren't switching b/c we are waiting for some little details in the form of functionality that we've enjoyed with our HTC phones. For some that may be 3G and GPS, for other such as myself 3rd party apps (VOIP!!!), and better bluetooth support (A2DP and tethering). For you that is clearly
windows contact/calendar over-the-air synching without Exchange
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Apple is getting closer and closer to closing in on its list of inadequacies with the iPhone, HTC on the other hand is not (and yes I realise that may be b/c they are tied down to WinMo 6.1).
I don't see any WinMo phone coming anywhere near where I or I would assume most of us want until Windows Mobile 7 is released. Windows Mobile 6 is just too slow, too small button oriented, too menu driven, and too lacking innovation (seriously, the UI is pretty much the same as its been ever since WinCE days back in 2000 or earlier).
well Raphael got vga over kaiser but then with smaller screens not everybody may notice
the thing that wm got going for it is lots of programs free ones and comercials ones
vs. iphone and android but with time it's not a good sleeping pillow for ms
kinda funny that while the pc world is unhappy with the current ms offering of vista
and want the next thing windows 7
pda owners are unhappy what wm6.1 can offer vs. the compatition so they want the next thing windows mobile 7
wonder if ms will release them at the same time :S :O
i love windows mobile and will not buy iphone. i was just in an att store today and the guy told me besides the phone being slash by half. u have to pay a huge fee to sign up for service. somewhere over $100. he said it would better serve u if u already had an iphone and wait for an upgrade rather than buying the new one.
as for htc. i am done with them. i wish i could find one of the developers and kick there ass. i am moving to another maker as soon as one catches my interest.
Yeah seriously WM6 is a dated wack ass looking piece of work. All this Touch Flo nonsense is just HTC trying to give their devices a fresher look. Otherwise you'd be staring at that boring ass Today screen that doesn't look good in the ads. Even Apple had to use a screenshot of WM in their keynote speech at WWDC '08 as a joke (how background apps run). This is in addition to the ActiveStink comment, which might be warranted, but I digress.
Point is, it does need to be seriously freshened up as an OS which is what WM7 is all about. However that's still a ways away. Plus barely any WM phones out there have gesture sensors or multi-touch screens anyway. Actually I don't know any that have both. 2 things the iPhone has had since last year. I am also curious as to what Android will bring to the Polaris, but I'm fed up with this dated WM6 OS (and lack of drivers).
omaga said:
or the new Samsung i900 Omnia http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i900_omnia-2422.php seems to be very interesting device. I propebly sell my polaris and buy a Iphone or this Samsung. In some way im to bored with the htc policy with their devices, first i have the Trinity and waited if htc could atleast make a wm6 update on trinity..but now way..then Polaris with this driver issue forexample. Polaris may be my last htc device. The only thing which is very good to have a Htc device is this forum or the hole xda developers www site
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Hey, what's the point? Omnia is just another WinMo ****! If you consider WinMo - Polaris is the best thing to buy! IMO.
yallow said:
Hey, what's the point? Omnia is just another WinMo ****! If you consider WinMo - Polaris is the best thing to buy! IMO.
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Yes ofcourse omnia is a wm phone. that wasnt my point. The point was how htc treads us comsumers, selling unfinnish products, you buy a expensive phone and things are missing in the phone which will be upgrade in the NEXT model. I like win mobiles no doubt about that and now im thinking Symbian vs Win. Sorry to say but did you read the Omnia spesifications at all? much better that Polaris?
Omnia kick ass with polaris from that point of view
Guys I have both the Orbit 2 and the first gen Iphone and both have there advantages.
However these are being eroded with Iphone 3G, namely GPS and 3G data access.
I have to admit the interface on the iphone is simply incredible, fast and accurate glass screen that does not scratch. it is an absolute joy to use.
is is intuitive at performing ANY function were the Orbit you have to think about what you are doing and then some. The interface on the Orbit is clumsy at best, whilst typing is a joke compared to the iphone, it's keyboard is a joy to use, I can type faster on it than I could achieve on my blackberry.
and to boot the build quality of the iphone is leagues ahead of the HTC product.
The facts are WM6.whatever is slow, cumbersome and needs the update now.
I will still use my Orbit2 as the PC modem function is superb but once the iphone 3G comes is released I would have to say it will get a lot less use.
Honestly. I was an huge fan of Symbian phones. Now the Polaris is my first WM device and I really like it. After a couple of customizations the device is "fingerfriendly" and I can't remember when I was using the stylus the last time.
But this is not the point. I prefer the Polaris all over the IPhone (3G) because...
... I like to change my battery on my own
... I like to send MMS
... I like to have at least an 3 MP camera on board
... I like to decide to customize the software on my own
... I like to decide who my operater of choice is
... and so on
and compare to the first IPhone the new one is build out of plastic, has still the same "features" and the "innovation" is nothing new.
I am waiting for the Raphael to exchange it with my Polaris. It gives me the freedom I used to have and the hardware features I prefer.
I can answer all those must haves apart from change battery as yes, just 'get an unlocked iphone' it gives you all those features.
Even the 2Mp camera on the iphone is comparable to the Orbit 2 3Mp.
However in the end everybody to their own.
Simply put IMO the Polaris is not finger friendly at all, the crappy plastic screen that scratches too easily is very un-responsive unless you use a stylus which defeats the object of having a touch screen phone.
I will admit the Polaris is a feature laden beast that has many strong points, but its operational method and UI cannot even come close to the Iphone, it is like comparing Mac OSX Leopard to Windows 95, the difference is that great.
mikee5402 said:
I can answer all those must haves apart from change battery as yes, just 'get an unlocked iphone' it gives you all those features.
Simply put IMO the Polaris is not finger friendly at all, the crappy plastic screen that scratches too easily is very un-responsive unless you use a stylus which defeats the object of having a touch screen phone.
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I can give you a much bigger list of things that you probably can't do even with a jailbroken iphone.
As for a screen that scratches, are you using a protector on there? Shouldn't be getting any scratches. I've heard others that don't use a screen protector and say they aren't getting any scratches either but i'm not willing to take the risk.
i dont really like the iphone's interface.. is.. bored.. maybe with a lot of graphic effects but is just VERY SIMPLE.. many programs for windows mobile can emulate that.. but iphone will never do what windows mobile does..
ORGANIZE..
because is not the same to have a folder for each thing than use a scrollable screen for all..
you should realize once and for all that there are different perfect phones for different people.
i love my polaris.. because it's a small, light device, with GPS and 3G ability.. which i will start using soon.
while other people prefer bigger screens they can buy 3.5inch screens.. i can't stand it.. but the iPhone 3G is good for them.
while i like having a modular operation system.. even tho windows mobile is not perfect, other people love having everything built in, such as in the iPhone. some other people don't mind about GPS.. .. i do.
but there isn't one best phone.. there are a few... depending on the needs of every individual.
What about the Sony Ericsson Experia X1. At first glance, I think it's more powerfull than the Iphone 3G, HTC Diamond (and variants), and the TC. It's WM based, 800x408 resolution, small, light, and works in the US.
yallow said:
I am a WM user for 4 years now. My first device was Magician, second one is Polaris and the next one will be Iphone 3G.
I love HTC, they make perfect phones and the price does not bother me, neither lack of video drivers does. I always admired all the latest technologies they include in their phones (3MP camera, 3G+HSDPA, GPS, etc..).
The only thing I don't like in HTC is ... MICROSOFT WINDOWS. I hate using stylus. It is absolutely not user-friendly.
Now, with HSDPA and GPS in Iphone I am willing to sell my polaris. Just after 5 months of using! I used my magician for 3 years before and thought I will keep my new one for another 3 years. But I give up now. I want to buy a brand new Iphone now. Never used apple products before (even Ipod).
So, my question is - do you guys know any forum similar to this one (technical), but related to Iphone stuff?
Thank you for answers and sorry for leaving you in advance.
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Don't forget... it'll be made by HTC!
And biig display is worth nill if not supported by applications.
Except if your main goal is to have nice media reproductor combined with phone
Touch Pro looks like killer device ATM...
Bodisson said:
Don't forget... it'll be made by HTC!
And biig display is worth nill if not supported by applications.
Except if your main goal is to have nice media reproductor combined with phone
Touch Pro looks like killer device ATM...
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Click to collapse
In general, I agree with you that higher resolution need to be supported by the apps. However, I've also go an Imate 6150, and I used to have an ETEN x800, and I can tell you that even though most of the apps didn't make the best use of the real estate, that the text was much more readable, colors were sharper, icons looked better, etc.
If it weren't for the crappy ROM that comes with the Imate, I would be using it now. And unfortunately, the hacker community for Imate devices isn't as developed as it is for HTC devices.
Of course the other downside to VGA (or higher) is higher power consumption.
Dave
I'm an advanced user of a WM device (Elfin,WM6.1) for half a year now, and after the iPhone price drop, and the ever growing developer support for the device I'm having doubts on the usability and flexibility of a WM device. Lets face it, the WM core isn't fit for todays users needs, and the 6.1 upgrade just fixes ever so slightly the performance (that should have been there since WM5), and a few bugs, but don't enhance the possibilities or usability of any phone. I wish, that the 'new gen' HTC phones, Raphael and Diamond would support WM7, but I highly doubt it since, WM7 is supposed to use multi touch, which those devices don't have.
Again, why am I having doubts? I'm looking to upgrade my Elfin, and while the Diamond/Raphael have amazing hardware on them (better than the iPhone 3G even), they don't have the software to use it all hence they are useless(?) upgrades.
What's your take on this? Please be as objective as you can be, that means no fanboyizms.
Do you think that Diamond and Raphael will be WM7 compatible?
I dont think Diamond or Raphael will support WM 7 because of the lack of multi touch screen.
Current Windows Mobile isn't the best solution but still it's the most powerfull today. I really hope they will join Smartphone and Pocket PC platform in WM 7 because current control of PPC devices using just one hand is a pain.
I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling this way too. Developer support is huge. Multi-Touch is the future of mobile or even electronic devices in general. Price wise, $199 is tempting but a $10 hike in the data plan makes up for the price drop (AT&T anyways). Usability is even, touch or multi-touch. WM6.1 is as dated now as the Palm OS for me. The GUI for the Diamond and Touch Pro gives me hope that you can do anything with WinMo and hopes for WM7 (maybe a second gen Diamond).
Touch Pro for me.
Mayby there's hope yet for WM7 on Diamond/Raphael or even older devices. MWg is said to be the first to have a WM7 device, and the Zinc II and Atom V have single touch screens. So it may be possible that WM7 will support both touch and multitouch devices. Is either that, or there will be a major change in hardware of WM7 devices which I rather doubt.
Enstriel said:
. . . I'm having doubts on the usability and flexibility of a WM device. Lets face it, the WM core isn't fit for todays users needs, and the 6.1 upgrade just fixes ever so slightly the performance (that should have been there since WM5), and a few bugs, but don't enhance the possibilities or usability of any phone. . .
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I personally don't understand why you say that - it fits my needs pretty well, and I am one of "todays users". But, I am not one of the users that is wowed by the whole touch experience - I like using my stylus. It is quick and efficient, for me.
I understand you expressing that you don't think it fits your needs, but please don't lump all of "todays users" together. There is room for many different modes and models, to fit individual use.
I personally hope that the current trend towards the touch experience doesn't put the stylus interface out to pasture. Try using a complex spreadsheet in a clinical environment - IMHO a stylus interface does a much better job for such situations.
cushcalc said:
I like using my stylus. It is quick and efficient, for me.
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Yes! Finally somebody who agrees. Utensiles and tools were invented for a reason.
Time to move to the dark side (3g iphone)
Ok guys I’ve been a follower of windows mobile now for the last 5 years. Xda, vario 2 & kaiser. But now the 3g phone is upon us I really think its time for us all to move on to a much superior phone and os. Microsoft have totally neglected the windows mobile platform that apple take very seriously. Microsoft even has to rely on a 3rd party developer in opera to release a browser that’s half usable!
Ok I admit the htc diamond, touch pro and Sony xperia do tempt me to stay with windows mobile but even with the fancy 3d interface they can’t hide the fact that it’s still using the very annoying and laggy 6.1 platform.
I’m constantly having problems with freezing on all my handsets and yes before you ask I always make sure I have enough free memory. It also totally pissed me off how htc treated us Kaiser Users with not supporting the device with 3d drivers does it really have 3d acceleration? One of the main reasons I chose this phone over the iphone was because I thought developers would start using the 3d capabilities.
Browsing the internet on the iphone is a total joy with the large screen and even though its only 0.7 inches bigger it feels huge compared to 2.8 Ok so the new diamond has a vga display 640x480 compared to the iphone 480x320 but it doesn’t matter how large the resolution is if we have to cram everything onto a small 2.8
And moving onto internal memory. How the hell do htc expect to compete with iphone with only giving the diamond none expandable internal memory of 4gig? Rofl jokers! How much does it cost them to put an extra 4 gig in to at least compete with the iphone 8gig? Maybe £10 extra considering 8gig micro sd cards only cost £20?? Talk about cost saving and maximum profit! I would love to have at least 16gig so I don’t have carry 2 devices, phone+mp3 player.
Ok sorry guys if I sound angry its just that I used to really love the windows mobile platform and I’ve not totally decided yet if I will get the iphone as I really don’t want to commit to 18 month contract with o2 in the uk and I know for a fact if 12 months time a new better version of iphone will be released
I have lots of hope for windows mobile version 7 and future htc devices but I really don’t want to wait that long before I can upgrade. But then again if I get a diamond or xperia then maybe I can just upgrade the rom to version 7 in the future? Gosh so much to think about! Getting a new phone has never been so complicated with so many dilemmas! Hehe
Anyway I better end this before I go on all night and ask you guys what’s your opinion of the new windows mobile phones there software and how they compare to the iphone?
dont let the door hit you on your way out.
my friend my ony bit of advice would be to think about which fits you better iphonies or winmo devices then make your decision from that. i think its almost like comparing a taxi and a police car they appear to be the same but are meant for two totally different things. the difference that i know is that winmo phones targets mostly business types and iphonies are for a more general consumer and about that gb thing iphonie was meant to be used also as an ipod winmo devices arent really meant to be used as zunes they do have some of the capabilities though as far as whether they should be headed in that direction is a whole different can of worms i hope that made a little since and good luck with your decision my only question is if you may be on your way out the door on to iphonies why in the h e double hockey sticks would you join a winmo based community lol your 15 mins?
Prodigal Son
We'll see you back here in a couple of months once you're bored out your face with the iphone...While your enjoying the music,pictures and the touch screen on you iphone , we'll be developing real useful things for our mobile devices....C'mon You know this already......
navymarvin said:
i think its almost like comparing a taxi and a police car they appear to be the same but are meant for two totally different things. the difference that i know is that winmo phones targets mostly business types and iphonies are for a more general consumer and about that gb thing iphonie was meant to be used also as an ipod winmo devices arent really meant to be used as zunes they do have some of the capabilities though as far as whether they should be headed in that direction is a whole different can of worms i hope that made a little since and good luck with your decision my only question is if you may be on your way out the door on to iphonies why in the h e double hockey sticks would you join a winmo based community lol your 15 mins?
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Wow! What a long sentence!
navymarvin said:
my friend my ony bit of advice would be to think about which fits you better iphonies or winmo devices then make your decision from that. i think its almost like comparing a taxi and a police car they appear to be the same but are meant for two totally different things. the difference that i know is that winmo phones targets mostly business types and iphonies are for a more general consumer and about that gb thing iphonie was meant to be used also as an ipod winmo devices arent really meant to be used as zunes they do have some of the capabilities though as far as whether they should be headed in that direction is a whole different can of worms i hope that made a little since and good luck with your decision my only question is if you may be on your way out the door on to iphonies why in the h e double hockey sticks would you join a winmo based community lol your 15 mins?
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Yea i agree, winmo devices are def. more business oriented while the iphone is just for anyone that can use a phone...and plus it's apple!
you yourself call it the "darkside", so i dont think that be a good move...winmo is the "force"
I think its funny you just joined, and your first post is this...
I'm right there with you though, kaiser (tilt) is gone as soon as the 3g iphone is out.
I love everything winmo can do, but iphone does it out of the box. Atleast what I want it for, except mms(wtf?).
There will be tons of apps out for it soon enough, and im sure plenty of them will do the same type of things winmo can do.
caned said:
Time to move to the dark side (3g iphone)
Ok guys I’ve been a follower of windows mobile now for the last 5 years. Xda, vario 2 & kaiser. But now the 3g phone is upon us I really think its time for us all to move on to a much superior phone and os. Microsoft have totally neglected the windows mobile platform that apple take very seriously. Microsoft even has to rely on a 3rd party developer in opera to release a browser that’s half usable!
Ok I admit the htc diamond, touch pro and Sony xperia do tempt me to stay with windows mobile but even with the fancy 3d interface they can’t hide the fact that it’s still using the very annoying and laggy 6.1 platform.
I’m constantly having problems with freezing on all my handsets and yes before you ask I always make sure I have enough free memory. It also totally pissed me off how htc treated us Kaiser Users with not supporting the device with 3d drivers does it really have 3d acceleration? One of the main reasons I chose this phone over the iphone was because I thought developers would start using the 3d capabilities.
Browsing the internet on the iphone is a total joy with the large screen and even though its only 0.7 inches bigger it feels huge compared to 2.8 Ok so the new diamond has a vga display 640x480 compared to the iphone 480x320 but it doesn’t matter how large the resolution is if we have to cram everything onto a small 2.8
And moving onto internal memory. How the hell do htc expect to compete with iphone with only giving the diamond none expandable internal memory of 4gig? Rofl jokers! How much does it cost them to put an extra 4 gig in to at least compete with the iphone 8gig? Maybe £10 extra considering 8gig micro sd cards only cost £20?? Talk about cost saving and maximum profit! I would love to have at least 16gig so I don’t have carry 2 devices, phone+mp3 player.
Ok sorry guys if I sound angry its just that I used to really love the windows mobile platform and I’ve not totally decided yet if I will get the iphone as I really don’t want to commit to 18 month contract with o2 in the uk and I know for a fact if 12 months time a new better version of iphone will be released
I have lots of hope for windows mobile version 7 and future htc devices but I really don’t want to wait that long before I can upgrade. But then again if I get a diamond or xperia then maybe I can just upgrade the rom to version 7 in the future? Gosh so much to think about! Getting a new phone has never been so complicated with so many dilemmas! Hehe
Anyway I better end this before I go on all night and ask you guys what’s your opinion of the new windows mobile phones there software and how they compare to the iphone?
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I-Phone= Fun device for people who want to be told what to do (and yes it does kick Windows Mobile device in functionality from here to India).
Win Mo Phones= Not being told what to do
I my friend am not a replicant.
Is this person trying to advertise to us or what? First post ever is this?? Have fun with your still limited iPhone. Forget about internal memory, my 160MB is more than enough for all my apps with over 50 left, I'll use an 8GB SDHC for all my music and movies, and if I want more memory, I'll use another! But, can anyone honestly tell me why this phone might be better? This new model pretty much hits the bottom of the list on what our devices have been doing.
Moving On...U were never Here! Good Luck if U ever have to replace the battery!
It’s funny how some people look on the iphone as the evil enemy without even giving it a chance. You see the same in many other formats, Intel vs amd, ati vs NVIDIA or even the Xbox 360 vs ps3. Some people pick a side and follow it almost like a religion even when the product is totally out done by the opposition. Intel vs amd is a good example. Why would anyone buy an amd processor at the moment is beyond me lol but they still do! amd kicked arse a few years back I must admit.
I’m still very tempted to try the touch pro as it looks a very nice phone that can be expanded to 8gig with micros sd but I guess lots of damage was done with all the problems I had with my Kaiser. Let’s hope roms of the htc diamond improve and we get a nice speedy interface similar to the iphone.
I didn’t mean to make this post sound like a I hate windows mobile I think Microsoft’s only just realised how important this market is so I have high hopes for windows mobile 7 and new htc devices in late 2008 early 2009 and the new NVIDIA apx2500 chip looks amazing! Check this out!
The CPU integrates an Ultra Low Power GeForce GPU that supports both OpenGL ES 2.0 and Direct3D Mobile, to provide sophisticated 3D interfaces. The design, based on the ARM11 750MHz processor, will be built on a 65nm manufacturing process and sport 256KB of level 2 cache.
According to the company, the APX 2500 device can play 10 hours of video or 100 hours of audio from a single charge of an iPhone-size battery.
Perhaps controversially, the APX 2500 CPU will only support Windows Mobile. Humber confirmed that this was a marketing, rather than technical choice. "We feel that Windows Mobile is placed for real growth right now
If only we had windows mobiles devices with this chip now as it really would kick the iphones ass!
I was once torn as you but now with the touch pro on the way, we will have everything we ever needed! The touch flo will be perfected, the ram, the mhz, the keyboard... Finally an interface (touchflo 3d) that is smooth! (we hope better than the diamond) And I'm sorry to say as many of you are GSM lovers including myself, if the touch pro hits the Sprint CDMA network with REV-A, That baby is gonna blaze with apps like youtube, and video streaming like sling box, etc, etc. better camera with flash, same size as tilt (almost) which was a great size for what it was packing! I truly feel that the touch pro will open the doors wide open for WM in 2008. Carriers like at&t and sprint would be fools not to pick this device up. I am sure it will be a hit any all the major carriers will have it. You will see!
iPhone is an iPhone and Windows mobile phone is a windows mobile phone. Stop comparing between WM devices and iPhones. WM devices are great but sometimes it tends to hang every now and then. iPhone seems to be too sweet but then it doesn't over the versatility of a phone (unless you're more into multimedia oriented ). flame me if you wish , its just like comparing apples and oranges together.
I am in the same situation as Caned's. I, too have been a windows mobile believer for as lomg as I can remember. I started with Casio cassiopeia, then a HP Ipaq, then a Blue Angel, then a Wizard, then a Hermes and now with a Kaiser for 10 months or so. I must admit the OS has barely been improved over the past err... 10 years (!), I agree with Caned it has been neglected by MS and I am now fed up of it. IE is appalling, and although there are alternatives to IE, they tend to run in a sluggish way (Opera Mobile) or have serious limitations (OperaMini, for example).
To Apple's credit, the iPhone has changed the way people view and use their phone, and although its market share is very low (Apple is not even among the top 5 mobile manufacturers in the US where its popularity is atits highest), it led mobile phone manufacturers to reconsider what a mobile phone stands for.
For the first time in 10 years I am now thinking of leaving WinMobile and switching to an alternative with a much more user-friendly, attractive OS. The iPhone 3G fits the bill. I never thought much of the iPod when it was released, but I won a nano recently and I must admit I am impressed.
The only thing that stops me from queing on 11/07 outside a O2 store here in the UK is the inability to use the iPhone as a 3G modem with my laptop. I can live with all other limitations of the phone (cant send MMS, camera of only 2MP, text forwarding) and the various ways in which the iPhone delivers a superior user experience relative to HTC phones. WM6.1 was supposed to improve WM6 which was (supposedly) better than WM5 which itself was (supposedly) better than WM2003SE and WM2003. Comparing WM2003 with WM6.1, I can hardly see the difference..!
Sorry guys, but talking to some who defected to the iPhone from winmobile do not regret the switch. Lets see what comes next, but it is time for MS to put its money where its mouth is and deliver a product that, finally matches the user experience delivered by competitors.
On the "lighter side" of things, I remember going to the "dark side" of winmo from my palm lifedrive, because I only wanted one device. So, I guess "ds" is a matter of perspective. Symbian, or android, anyone? jk, I like wm6.1 for now
i've been using wm for like 8 years now. the only time i moved to "the dark side" was when i tried out the nokia n95. but as per my signature below, i saw the light and moved back to wm =)
Uh, you will be missed..
This seems like a reoccurring post here. My original response to a similar thread:
The iPhone is still just for the 12 and under crowd and hippies too dumb to understand WM based phones. We will always need the iPhone for the same reason we will always need the big tag on the hair dryer telling us not to use it in the tub!
I have to agree with Caned here, whatever is released by HTC etc is just the same old windows mobile skinned up. Until v7 with multi touch comes out and the devices are built to support it then I think its time to look elsewhere for a while - probably an N96 in my case. I have no doubt that I'll be back for another WinMo device but I don't think it will be before the huge overhaul that M$ have been promising for months/years. The only aspect that makes WinMo vaguely usable is that people here write such amazing additions for it and give us access to ROM updates that networks etc don't want us to have.
In short, M$/HTC started a great trend for devices that cover all needs, unfortunately M$ slowed development and the competition (Apple/Symbian) have caught up/overtaken.
Hi,
I was looking at the iSuppli figures for the new iPhone 3GS and the Pal Pre and looking at the specifications of those phones it seems like they heavily outweigh even newer devices like touch pro 2 which cost like 30% or more. The Pre and the 3GS have
Much better application processors. ARM Cortex 8 approximately 50-70% faster than the ones in omnia
Separate Applications and Base Band Processors
Capacitive touch screens
16 Million color screens
Higher capacity and quality NAND memory
Considering that these manufacturers are also including costs of R&D for their OS in the phone price as well while manufacturers like HTC, Samsung and Acer just build shells for Windows Mobile which should be a lot cheaper how are the higher prices justified?
Another thing, people from HTC have been complaining for some time now that an 18bit color more would be too much of a hit/not possible in Winmo and are still sticking to 16bit while with the upcoming Omnia pro and Omnia II Samsung is using 24bit and 18bit respectively. The only thing better about Winmo device screens is the higher resolution.
The only thing besides hardware for Windows phone manufacturers is case design and shell development. Do you think that undercutting quality of parts without much justification is ok? I would like to hear what long time users think of it.
PS: Got 3GS and Pre information from http://www.cellular-news.com/story/37945.php
Constructive comments please
Thanks
[QUOTE Do you think that undercutting quality of parts without much justification is ok? [/QUOTE]
I don´t think it´s ok.
I decided to stay in HTC line devices for one great reason that makes the diference: XDA-DEVS!!!!
Without this great site I might turn my interest on Toshiba new devices, even with WM.
I don´t have any good comment respect the others OS...
Perhaps Android in a mid-future term...
They ask as much as possible for a device. Actually that's the reason I'd never really buy the rhodium. HTC always releases devices with a little flaw they fix in the next device (but make a new flaw, like FM radio in rhodium). What we need isn't that much: (F)WVGA, Tegra/Snapdragon/OMAP, 5-8 megapixel camera WITH flash and such others. I hope that Acer F1 is going to rock so I can buy my next device
HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success.
Just heard today the the new iphonie 3gs sold a million units already
Hope HTC gets there sh#t together soon...
to be honest, the only reason i buy htc/winmo devices is this site....and the fact i can get tomtom on it
but now i see tomtom is on the iphone, having used an iphone this week, i can say there are things il ike about it, but its a bit to dumbed down for me i feel, but then, it does just work, and the touchscreen seems to work much better than any htc device i've used
i seriously miss having a flashlight, i mean camera flash on my phone, my old samsung d500 was brilliant in the dark, also miss having a camera that doesn't have wierd blue on it all the time no matter how much i seem to fiddle with it
galaxys said:
Just heard today the the new iphonie 3gs sold a million units already
Hope HTC gets there sh#t together soon...
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Yeah, the iPhone is ****ingly well done... I have tons of WinMo devices but, for most tasks, I use my iPhone 3G. It's, hardware-wise, so much better than those lame resistive screen-based HTC craps...
And yes, as soon as the 3G S arrives here (in July), I'll be among the first to purchase it. I love gaming on these things.
true. i am tired of defending htc with my friends who have iphone. even the new palm pre which i tested today is so sweet. the screen jumps at u. i loved it
when my contract is up next month i am so buying an iphone.
the only reason i stayed so long is XDA and the tweaking i could do. kept me interested but now i dnt have time to be tweaking.
i want a phone that works and does what it needs to do without constant resetting and tweaks from XDA
I believe HTC made the best financial choice for this year. Due to Economical situation they know there will less demand on high end devices. Therefore they have not risk any high R&D and expensive parts. They choose already existing platforms and just add few more spec. I believe that is the best way to keep their profit margins!!!! The sad thing is they do have still advantage over the other hardware manufacturers which makes them too confident.
Beside from the Hardware issues on the WinMO I believe it is the OS that keeps all Hardware manufacturer and also Software makers struggle. Window Mobile OS clearly out aged but Microsoft is not fast enough to come up with something NEW and BETTER. Be frank WinMo 6.5 is just a joke. It has no major changes. Win 7 has delayed few times and besides no one knows what going to come out from that development.
Clearly if MS and HTC continue in such way they sure will be losing huge market which we already started to see!!!!!
I know..many WinMo supporters will say compare to WinMo..Iphone can’t do this... Iphone can’t do that. The fact is that 90% consumer that buy a device for 500-900USD don’t wanted spend their entire time to tweak and modify a expensive device to function a bit better!!! Beside most of those are not technical and therefore the learning curve to handle WinMo is much much longer.
I believe as a long term user of WinMo we become use to the limitation of MS OS and hardware so that we already see those as normal. But I do trust that many of us forget that WE PAYING REALLY 500-900 USD for piece of CRAP!!!
We just NEED to see the falling prices of Notebooks and Netbooks then we know how much we over paying for our HTC devices.
"HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success."
Infuckingdeed.
Menneisyys said:
HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success.
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I was scared that XDA-Devs is a fanboy site, with no rational thinking allowed. Glad to see this isn't the case.
Let's call a spade is a spade - HTC has ridden way too long on the coattails of cheap design, cheap QVGA screens and crap hardware with no or poor drivers, selling for $649 unlocked.