Database Info

New\Old Rom\Fixes Tracking?

I am extending this post just because it took a long time to sticky 1 more month.....
I would like to ask the community if they would want 1 sticky thread with the following info. Only the rom author would post in this forum not questions the rom author can link to a thread regarding this. Or should we just WIKI this?
Current and past rom builds
Fixes for Rom past and present
Links to How to threads such as WM6 VIOP
EX These should be the authors post. And no one other than the author should post
CrossBow Reloaded by MFRAZZZ
1.71(Beta) http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=310101&highlight=reloaded
1.7 (Stable) http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=309531&highlight=reloaded
1.5 (Stable) http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=306820&highlight=reloaded
Voip Setup
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=299950
I think you get the hint.....

Comments
Please post your comments if you have any

Good iniciative
Thanks, the result can´t be other than a better organized forum

More input
Hey we need at least 100 votes to make a difference.
HMM looking at the wiki this does seem good. http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=wizard_WM_6

Moderator
I am going to ask a moderator to sticky this

I agree with luiggi. Since the kitchens were out there are so many ROMS out there. So we shall organize this forum better.

The point of a forum is discussion....
I think if only one person is editing, a Wiki makes more sense. After the discussion happens in the forum, the filtered content (fixes, etc.) could go to the Wiki instead of the first post. Having all the discussion as part-in-parcel to the original post is getting pretty clunky.
The trouble would come in a cluttered Wiki, no?

There should be a wiki where all cooks put a link to thier roms, so that we end up with one "master list" of all the roms available. So that we dont have to go searching thru the forum to find different roms.

you can create many subforums which will be messy at first but if you want a quick simple fix create a [ Files Only section (no discussions) ] this fixed other websites from getting messy.
example site
http://www.rom10x.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=255

charly_mx said:
I agree with luiggi. Since the kitchens were out there are so many ROMS out there. So we shall organize this forum better.
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I'm sorry to bother you, but where did you get the official WM6 Release for the 8125.

pdhahnsr said:
I'm sorry to bother you, but where did you get the official WM6 Release for the 8125.
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His build is not really the official release for 8125. There is no such beast. The closest is the on that was uploaded by Ingentics (however you spell it)
According to him, it came directly from microsoft. Or if you want one with good fixes and is stable and built off that base rom, grab jaguar. <see signature>
Its very lite

nottoosmart said:
His build is not really the official release for 8125. There is no such beast. The closest is the on that was uploaded by Ingentics (however you spell it)
According to him, it came directly from microsoft. Or if you want one with good fixes and is stable and built off that base rom, grab jaguar. <see signature>
Its very lite
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Thanks nottoosmart. I'm gonna download and install and see how it runs.
I'll update later.

ROM Originator/Author's Original/Changes always on TOP
Why not have/keep/Sticky the ROM Originator/Author's Original posting on top and then allow that person to edit that posting as needed. This way we could always look at the ROM Originator/Author posting to see what is the latest version/changes.
All other postings could be as currently done. I find it very time consuming that one has to go though x00 postings to find if any updates have been made to the original version.

Honestly, this forum has been a mess for a while.. I have been trolling around here for ages, and sometimes it is really difficult to find anything in the 100 page threads.
My suggestion, although time consuming will probably help.
Create 2 threads for each major rom/kitchen release (not the minor "everyone can cook there own roms" rom). 1 is stickied, 1 is not. The sticky is only accessible by the author of said rom, and no one but mods or himself/herself can post to it, the other is for basic discussion about said rom/kitchen
Additionally the mods may want to go through and clear out older threads completely, and cull the threads with far too many pages for any usefull information (or maybe permit the author the rom the thread is about to cull that thread).

ATTN: Moderator

Could you please either add Nitros' and vjgrace's ROMs to the sticked theads at the top, or unsticky Andot's and Phil's?
Or alternatively, make a sticky thread for people to advertise their ROMs. Maybe the cooks can PM you the details of their builds and links to their threads for you to add posts to a mod-postable only thread so that it doesn't become cluttered, and questions and support for the various ROMs will take place only in their own threads...
Please understand, Andot's and Phil's efforts are excellent and well-respected but have somewhat lapsed in development and support and are no longer the most current or stable builds.
Yet the stickiness of their threads lends to newcomers jumping directly to those ROMs and consequently asking for help with issues other ROM cookers have already resolved...

Sticky Opinion...
I think we ought to replace the three stickies listed with one ROM MetaSticky that has links to the current stuck threads as well as the other ROM builds and some high level summaries on each build such as...
Who built it
When it was first released
When it was last updated
A link to the current thread
I think this would save a lot of questions. If someone wanted to be really creative they could write a summary of features or add a matrix with a feature comparison or maybe a poll for who is using that build.
Opinions?

I agree with unsticking the current two ROM stickies. The two authors haven't been around for a while, and the ROMs in the stickies haven't been updated in months. When, and if, Phil is back with a new ROM, that can go back up.

I agree. The two current roms that are 'sticked' are very outdated. The more recent roms should be there.

kkrull said:
I think we ought to replace the three stickies listed with one ROM MetaSticky that has links to the current stuck threads as well as the other ROM builds and some high level summaries on each build such as...
Who built it
When it was first released
When it was last updated
A link to the current thread
I think this would save a lot of questions. If someone wanted to be really creative they could write a summary of features or add a matrix with a feature comparison or maybe a poll for who is using that build.
Opinions?
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I thought that's what I was trying to say...b
Basically, each post of the thread would have the contents of the first post of the ROM's thread; but not the download link, just the features and version numbers...
I also think a nice ROM posting convention would be for the poster/cook to reserve the second post of the thread (just fill it with useless text or something) for a Changes Log.
It's nice to see that the original info updated, but many posts show up asking if x is still there or where y went...
But then again, it begins to sound like work.. doesn't it?

Exitao said:
I thought that's what I was trying to say...b
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Pretty much. I wrote the same thing before reading your post so I just moved my post underneath yours.

Are any of the moderators even paying attention here? Sounds like a bunch of us talking among ourselves...

I've stickied the 3 recent roms

kkrull said:
Pretty much. I wrote the same thing before reading your post so I just moved my post underneath yours.
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OK good. I was just worried that I wasn't understandable. Again.

meschle said:
I've stickied the 3 recent roms
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Yay! Squeeky wheel for teh win!!!!1!!!one

meschle said:
I've stickied the 3 recent roms
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Alright! Someone was paying attention!

Forum Organization Idea

First and formost, thanks to all the chefs out there, i've crossed over from a crackberry and I'm so glad I did thanks to this forum.
I have one suggestion: As I love to flash new ROMs allllll the time (I'm sure most here are as addicted as I am), I'm having some trouble keeping track of what ROMS are new and which are older but still being discussed.
Please give all your incites on the idea of a STICKY thread made just for for ROM uploading. Then there can be different threads for the discussion of each ROM (issues, fixes, etc...)
This would make it alot easier for everyone to see whats new and compare ROMs.
Please let me know what ou think.
If enough people think it's a good idea then maybe we can make it happen?!
Please vote in the poll above
Thanks again.

I believe we wanted to clear out a lot of the stickies so the page don't get filled up with a whole bunch of stickies. There is a rom page with links, but I don't believe it is being mantained.

Nope, xda make it mandatory that cooks put their meals on the table. By that I mean put the links to their thread in the ROM list thread.

MorKraiser said:
First and formost, thanks to all the chefs out there, i've crossed over from a crackberry and I'm so glad I did thanks to this forum.
I have one suggestion: As I love to flash new ROMs allllll the time (I'm sure most here are as addicted as I am), I'm having some trouble keeping track of what ROMS are new and which are older but still being discussed.
Please give all your incites on the idea of a STICKY thread made just for for ROM uploading. Then there can be different threads for the discussion of each ROM (issues, fixes, etc...)
This would make it alot easier for everyone to see whats new and compare ROMs.
Please let me know what ou think.
If enough people think it's a good idea then maybe we can make it happen?!
Please vote in the poll above
Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, it's in the sticky you missed at the top of this page, where you want this new sticky added.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=343198
Where it says:
Sticky: All Significant Kaiser Upgrading Links. Start Here!
Just click that link, then look for:
List of Kaiser Rom Threads and Download Links

Pointless and repititive threads make finding ROM releases thread difficult. (period)

IMHO new roms should have two threads each: one for the rom and for the chef or an assistant to post updated specific instructions and bug-fixes and another one for the 200 pages of chatter.

i suggest to do a board read only who only developers can post his rom with every update.
with vbb u can do everything u want. Simply create a group and give permissions to post that board.
for adding to that group they must demostrate they are developing a rom...
for assistence another board where to talk about custom roms.

I believe it's a good idea to have a one point to start flashing and this could be the Wiki section of each device where noobies can read the instructions before starting flashing their devices ... I think this will also reduce many repeated mistakes and questions.
To make it even more clear, maybe our mods should impose a unified form for this section like to include:
Chef name
Cook version
OS version
Build number
Radio version (if included)
Addressed device (ATT, HTC, ...)
Brief about the contents
Bugs/known issues
Download link(s)
a link to the discussion thread

Can we use subforums???
kaiser>
roms>
problems
???

It's more important to me to be able to tell which threads are new and which threads are just updated...
This way we will be able to choose to read our favorite (excisting) threads first and after that look for new started threads so we know about new problems/ideas/ROMs (!!)...
Or the other way around ofcourse...

This forum is what we as a community make of it. Everything can't be heaped upon the back of the Moderators. There are only like 30 or so of us to thousands of registered members.
Members need to step up and help get & keep things organized. Use the Wiki, learn how to and & edit pages there.
When you see crap threads, report them to the Mods instead of inciting a flame-war on a noob.
The bottom line if you aren't part of the solution then you are part of the problem, inaction is just as harmful as negative action.

I actually have a reformat of the Custom ROM wiki page floating around here on my work computer. It's sorted first by OS (6.0 or 6.1) then by Chef, then by date (newest first). I need to see if I can put my hands on it to actually place it up on the wiki. Though it'll require that people actually take the time to add the new ROMs as they come out. Remember, the forum is more than one person...as is the wiki.
I'll try to get to that this afternoon unless someone has a massive issue with it...

New Wiki page is up for Cooked ROMs here. Still needs some work but that should be a good start for better organization and maintainability.

jarek91 said:
New Wiki page is up for Cooked ROMs here. Still needs some work but that should be a good start for better organization and maintainability.
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That's some great work jarek91!!! That's the spirit! As stated in other threads, I only care for those who contribute. Whining n00bs should be flamed on first post

jarek91 said:
New Wiki page is up for Cooked ROMs here. Still needs some work but that should be a good start for better organization and maintainability.
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Click to collapse
awesome bro! thanks for that!
Cheers

What version of Duttys 6.1 is best?

Build 19199 or Build 5.2.19716 updated FEB 20.2008 seems to be the newer one?

i personally prefer 19716 build but you can try both and figure it out. there was no need to open a whole new thread just 4 this question.

It's a perfectly valid question dude.
Like most people I am frustrated by people asking the same questions again and again, but I am concerned that this forum is in danger of heading down a bad road by bashing noobs at every opportunity.

Rabangus said:
It's a perfectly valid question dude.
Like most people I am frustrated by people asking the same questions again and again, but I am concerned that this forum is in danger of heading down a bad road by bashing noobs at every opportunity.
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Click to collapse
Yes it's a perfectly valid question to ask in Dutty's thread about his ROM not creating a whole new thread about it.

totally agree.
You could argue this is like asking a parent which one of their kids they like the most!
Best thing is to try both and see which you prefer. There will be advocates for both.
ps don't try that with your kids. it will end you up in jail.

I use each rom on my 2 tilts. I feel that 197 is more stable. 191 sometimes freeze if you push some buttons whil they are booting up. doesn't happen to 197.

No disrespect to anyone here on the board, but Dutty's thread is quickly becoming useless to me. I'm not going to weed through 330+ pages of replies to try to follow a conversation or find a piece of information in there. That thread is quickly becoming it's own universe.
I'm glad this thread was started - It's good information for me that I wouldn't have otherwise found.
Regards,
Jeff

trick420 said:
No disrespect to anyone here on the board, but Dutty's thread is quickly becoming useless to me. I'm not going to weed through 330+ pages of replies to try to follow a conversation or find a piece of information in there. That thread is quickly becoming it's own universe.
I'm glad this thread was started - It's good information for me that I wouldn't have otherwise found.
Regards,
Jeff
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Click to collapse
Here's the point....I garuntee if you post in there with a question it will be answered...there's no point in making a new thread....that's all I'm saying.

alltheway said:
Here's the point....I garuntee if you post in there with a question it will be answered...there's no point in making a new thread....that's all I'm saying.
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Click to collapse
Posted a question ... no answer.
That thread is bull....
It took me 5 minutes to even find my posting.
The thread might make sense if someone was moderating it ... meaning putting questions into the first post with links to answers. But this? Bull!

coolVariable said:
Posted a question ... no answer.
That thread is bull....
It took me 5 minutes to even find my posting.
The thread might make sense if someone was moderating it ... meaning putting questions into the first post with links to answers. But this? Bull!
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Click to collapse
Yeah, all threads suffer from this, and I'm also totally agreeing with you, I'm also in the same situation, cannot read hundreds of posts and pages of every ROM thread to find out if it's a suitable one to upgrade to. Trying out so many ROMs until satisfied is not an option for me (ok, I'd admit trying a few, but not every version of every flavour of wm6.1), I want to find one to get rid of my german wm6.0 and have iGo still working, and no issues more than with 6.0.
An updated FAQ in the beginning posts of the respective threads would be useful, but even better, real wiki articles (not just links back to forum threads). Don't want to upset people who discovered the Internet just when these forums where already around, but on mailing lists information and discussions where easier to follow and filter...
Just my 0.2€...

Back to the question: which is the best?
Let me tell you: the new 19716 RTM out to come soon will be the best and fastest ever!!!

Popular ROM Threads

PDACornerUltimate
By: abusalza
Phoenix
By: parleyp
HyperDragon
By: sakajati
AthineOS
By: b16b
eOS
By: -888-
RevROM
By: kareem9nba
-G- ROM's
By: -G-
SeaDragon
By: ansar.ath.gr

If I've missed any please let me know. These are NOT the only ROM's nor are they the "best" ROM's for the Kaiser just a list of the ROM's that seam to be the most popular.

Why did you post this?

Does it's based on number of post or viewers who's came to related ROM threads? Why don't we just do polling or something? But i guess member here rarely used only one ROM, it's keep changing

is this really necessary?

Travito said:
is this really necessary?
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i feel it is just like adding a new thread with no benefits n discussions...
I think it is an against rule.. so MOD to take the call on this!

siddesh_0110 said:
i feel it is just like adding a new thread with no benefits n discussions...
I think it is an against rule.. so MOD to take the call on this!
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Why did you post this?
Click to expand...
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is this really necessary?
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What is the big deal? ......What , is he taking much needed space away from all the new 6.5 roms coming out ? Look around, things are kind of slow around here with links being taken down, chefs canceling their new 6.5 releases
This is not a "what is best thread," it merely consolidates all the chefs in one area,.........If it is tagged right, now all a noob has to do is come to rom development, type " popular roms " into search and he will come right to this page, to link and compare. No harm, could be helpful.
Don't forget ansar's roms, get the link in my signature.

Make this sticky!
Maybe add older but good ROMS like dutty's, Laurentis, etc!

I didn't expect to be flamed for making a post that would help me. If it helps me then I'm sure it would help others here on the forums.
I'm not claiming these are the best ROM's, What I did was sort the forum by number of posts and then started listing, I skipped over the threads that was old but apparently some of those ROM's are still used so I'll include those too.

Fingerlickin said:
I didn't expect to be flamed for making a post that would help me. If it helps me then I'm sure it would help others here on the forums.
I'm not claiming these are the best ROM's, What I did was sort the forum by number of posts and then started listing, I skipped over the threads that was old but apparently some of those ROM's are still used so I'll include those too.
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your not really being flamed its just that this is rom development forum and your thread has nothing to do with that,or with even aiding in rom dev. maybe you should put this in the kaiser-general forum?

The only problem is I don't think noobs are going to use the search function in the general forum to find a popular rom list. They are going to come here, to rom dev. Yes they could just go up and down the forum threads looking at post totals for different roms, but we all know clueles noobs.
I would love for them to be able to input "popular roms " into the search function and have them be directed to a list. Or as we get the inevitalbe " what is the best rom " question, which gets asked here, more than in the Kaiser general forum " here is the list of popular roms ", " follow the links and test and compare for yourself "
Could be helpful.

Once upon a time, XDA made this thing, it was grand, it's called THE WIKI.
Where there is already an extensive ROM list.
Instead of making a new thread, update the WIKI.

Travito said:
Once upon a time, XDA made this thing, it was grand, it's called THE WIKI.
Where there is already an extensive ROM list.
Instead of making a new thread, update the WIKI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed it is far more extensive

Travito said:
Once upon a time, XDA made this thing, it was grand, it's called THE WIKI.
Where there is already an extensive ROM list.
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Click to collapse
And that is why the thread is not called " every rom ever written for the Kaiser " because that is in the wiki. Lets face it when the noobs come to this Kaiser forum, they are looking for the latest and the greatest, the stuff all the other kids are using.
They are not looking or willing to to filter through yesterdays news just to get the newest stuff. Don't get me wrong, Leo, Dutty, NATF, and all are legends and always will be, but they have moved on. In some cases the chefs are not even supporting their old threads that are still listed in the wiki.
We hear enough complaints as it is about all the old info a noob has to go through to get the " new stuff ".
This is kind of a thanks and props to the guys that have stayed behind and still support us, and a thanks to the ( Josh, KaiserII101, ngy ) new chefs stepping up, by moving them to the top of the " every rom available for the Kaiser" list .
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=492757
Go here follow the links to the latest and the greatest and decide for yourself. Easy Answer ?
Not meaning to be a jerk with so many posts, I'm just sayin............

I've got to admit that this thread helped me find a good naked ROM, namely AthineOS. I probably would have found it in the end but who knows how long that would have taken?

denco7 said:
Lets face it when the noobs come to this Kaiser forum, they are looking for the latest and the greatest, the stuff all the other kids are using.
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and that stuff 9 times out of 10 is on the 1st or 2nd page of the kaiser forum, hence threads like these AREN'T needed.
edit: not to mention that this is the "Kaiser Rom Development forum" not a come and get it/heres your menu forum, these "kids" need to be searching/learning before they EVER think about flashing a rom. or all you get is theses spoon fed "kids" not reading/searching, bricking their phones more than they do now!!!

<soapbox>
I've been lurking XDA for quite some time, have read countless threads, and flashed numerous ROMs. I'm no chef/expert, but I'm not a n00b either. My visits to XDA are far from regular and usually involve either obtaining a new ROM or checking on the status of Android on the Kaiser. I greatly appreciate the work of everyone who cooks ROMs, administrates the forum/wiki, or just generally puts in time to help the community, and try to stay out of the way unless I have a good question or something useful to add. I use the search function and the wiki religiously. In short, I'm probably a good example of the typical XDA visitor. Here's my opinion:
@Fingerlickin: Thank you. The effort is appreciated, but I don't imagine you'll want to come back and update this every few months. If you make a new wiki page or add the popularity info to the existing ROM list, other people can update it in future. Then, you could just edit your post and make it a link to the wiki (or have the mods add the link to the FAQ) so that it comes up in forum searches.
@Travito & msd24200: You say that a more extensive list can be found elsewhere and that a post like this doesn't belong in the ROM development forum. With all due respect, I think you are missing the point. Fingerlickin didn't post a list of all ROMS, he posted something of a Top 8 list. It wasn't intended to be comprehensive.
Could he have updated the wiki instead of making a new post? Sure, but (at the time of this post) that page was last updated in January.
Could any given XDA visitor get this information on their own? Yes, but it can be confusing, frustrating, and time consuming. ROM authors and update threads change, and some of the most popular ROMs are no longer maintained.
Should this be somewhere else? I don't believe so. If I'm interested in getting a ROM, I go to where the ROM developers post them. They don't post in Kaiser General, so I don't go there for ROMs. Naturally, I wouldn't expect to find a list of popular ROMs there, either.
Frankly, I think the FAQ actually has too much info, especially since there's a wiki with all of that (and more). As for the wiki, it's not the easiest thing to navigate. For example, a search for "Kaiser" brings up a list of pages, but should I click the HTC_Kaiser link, or the Kaiser link? If I'm looking for info on Kaiser ROMs, do I choose KaiserROMs or Kaiser_ROMs? KaiserROMs directs me to see either Kaiser Cooked Roms or Kaiser Shipped Roms, the latter being a link to the Kaiser_ROMs page.
My point is simply this: Fingerlickin's post lists several of the most popular, and still updated, ROMs. This info is not available on the wiki or in the FAQ, and pertains directly to the ROMs developed and posted on this forum. It might be easier to maintain if it were on the wiki, but it might end up harder to find. It's definitely not redundant or in the wrong forum, and it IS a time saver.
</soapbox>

Exactly all the most up to date things will be within first 2 pages and even if not then surely it's worth putting in the effort to find a ROM that you want and like, by that i mean to do a bit of research read some of the reviews flash it and then probably go somewhere else and flash untill you find the ROM that suits your needs and wishes, blah blah too many threadz with Help\Fastest ROM\Best ROM or just posted in the bloody wrong section.
Blah Blah Blah..............
msd24200 where's that cat when you need him?
DamionFury: I read it all and you have some valib point but time consuming is all part of it your flashing a UK £200ish phone............. Take some time, do some learning..... You don't need to use the search for Kaiser ROMs go through the pages of ROM Development and you can just flip & flip & flip till you find what you want???

I enjoy using my phone when it has a ROM that I like; I don't enjoy spending hours finding that ROM. I have far too many things I'd rather be doing. I spend the time finding the ROM because I believe that it's worth it, but anything that reduces the expenditure is great in my book.

DamionFury said:
<soapbox>
I've been lurking XDA for quite some time, have read countless threads, and flashed numerous ROMs. I'm no chef/expert, but I'm not a n00b either. My visits to XDA are far from regular and usually involve either obtaining a new ROM or checking on the status of Android on the Kaiser. I greatly appreciate the work of everyone who cooks ROMs, administrates the forum/wiki, or just generally puts in time to help the community, and try to stay out of the way unless I have a good question or something useful to add. I use the search function and the wiki religiously. In short, I'm probably a good example of the typical XDA visitor. Here's my opinion:
@Fingerlickin: Thank you. The effort is appreciated, but I don't imagine you'll want to come back and update this every few months. If you make a new wiki page or add the popularity info to the existing ROM list, other people can update it in future. Then, you could just edit your post and make it a link to the wiki (or have the mods add the link to the FAQ) so that it comes up in forum searches.
@Travito & msd24200: You say that a more extensive list can be found elsewhere and that a post like this doesn't belong in the ROM development forum. With all due respect, I think you are missing the point. Fingerlickin didn't post a list of all ROMS, he posted something of a Top 8 list. It wasn't intended to be comprehensive.
Could he have updated the wiki instead of making a new post? Sure, but (at the time of this post) that page was last updated in January.
Could any given XDA visitor get this information on their own? Yes, but it can be confusing, frustrating, and time consuming. ROM authors and update threads change, and some of the most popular ROMs are no longer maintained.
Should this be somewhere else? I don't believe so. If I'm interested in getting a ROM, I go to where the ROM developers post them. They don't post in Kaiser General, so I don't go there for ROMs. Naturally, I wouldn't expect to find a list of popular ROMs there, either.
Frankly, I think the FAQ actually has too much info, especially since there's a wiki with all of that (and more). As for the wiki, it's not the easiest thing to navigate. For example, a search for "Kaiser" brings up a list of pages, but should I click the HTC_Kaiser link, or the Kaiser link? If I'm looking for info on Kaiser ROMs, do I choose KaiserROMs or Kaiser_ROMs? KaiserROMs directs me to see either Kaiser Cooked Roms or Kaiser Shipped Roms, the latter being a link to the Kaiser_ROMs page.
My point is simply this: Fingerlickin's post lists several of the most popular, and still updated, ROMs. This info is not available on the wiki or in the FAQ, and pertains directly to the ROMs developed and posted on this forum. It might be easier to maintain if it were on the wiki, but it might end up harder to find. It's definitely not redundant or in the wrong forum, and it IS a time saver.
</soapbox>
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and again there is no point to be missing the fact is this is a rom development thread not a come and get it and here's the menu thread. THIS HAS BEEN GONE OVER AND OVER AND OVER so many times. the roms that are "hot" will always be on the first couple of pages of the forum because so many use them they don't have time to drop back to page 3. you guys that want to spoon feed should start your own website linking back to the rom threads on here then. and as far as the wiki goes it's all there and ANYONE can update the wiki at anytime.