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After trying all sorts of pdf readers, I come close to the conclusion that reading pdf documents on a PDA is not practical at all and even irrealistic.
Due mainly to the fact that one cannot view an entire page with a readable font size without having to scroll sideways.
I end up converting pdf to lit.
Please, give opinion and eventually solutions.
Thanks all, and take care
Come on folks, just a few words about your experience with pdf...
donno i read a book as pdf once
on my pda
only had to scroll down not sideways
depend on the doc in question really i suppose
pref lit though because of bookmarks and cleartype
and not being as much a res hog as acrobat reader which i used at the time
VGA a requirement
I use an older version of Adobe reader on a VGA screen. My eyes are still good enough that I can zoom out, get a full page on the screen, and still read it. I have read an entire book this way. I am sure there are better ways to do it on a PDA. But my goal is to be able to grab a document off of the web and read it as I travel. If there is going to be conversion between formats, it would have to take place on the PDA.
That being said, it is still easier to read a word or text document than a PDF. But if you have the screen resolution and size to work with, PDF's are not impossible.
Thanks folks, that was my impression.
Answers
There are ways to improve PDF experiance. Using reflow when creating PDFs (available as an option when saving PDFs from OpenOffice, for example) greatly improves things.
Anothr good option is Repligo - you can print / convert PDFs to that format. It uses less space, documents open faster and look better (less jagged fonts).
Believe me, PDFs are annoying even in actual, desktop environments. >_>
That said, I'm using Foxit for the PPC. It loads 15MB++ files faster than Adobe, follows the original PDF format faithfully (doesn't try to rearrange like idiotic Clearvue), yet it is a standalone program that requires no installation.
That said, PDF reading is only for devices with a big screen. Definitely bigger than a Mini, let alone an Atom. Otherwise, at a big enough text to be legible, scrolling to the side is necessary - and that tends to lag a bit with bigger PDFs for devices with only 64MB of RAM or less.
I have train skeds and the Tokyo Metro Map plus a crap load more pdf files
that I use on my X01HT and yes you do have to scroll both ways but I mean
have you seen the detail of the Tokyo Metro Map?!?
It works for me. I actually like it.
Plus I get 'really cool' nods from Japanese when they see me looking
through the Tokyo Metro map on my X01HT because most of them
use the low tech pocket paper fold out.
Yes, I am a gaijin otaku and proud of it!!!
imexp then big pictures makes pdf useless on pda's as they can move the text to scale but in there is a picture in the middle they cant really handle scaling the picture down to match the width of the pda screen
I think converting to repligo is the most elegant solution since images are conserved...but it is not free
Otherwise, if pics are not important, converting to text then to lit and using microsoft reader is an acceptable free solution.
To "AquiEsta!": why don't you use the excellent "metro" freeware?
You can use the free xpdf (pocketpdf). It at least has better zoom functions then adobe and it has the option to read pdf as text files with associated functions. You lose pictures but pure textfiles are a breaze to read...
elio said:
I think converting to repligo is the most elegant solution since images are conserved...but it is not free
Otherwise, if pics are not important, converting to text then to lit and using microsoft reader is an acceptable free solution.
To "AquiEsta!": why don't you use the excellent "metro" freeware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't know such a thing existed. Where would I find that? In English
would be great too!
Thanks
AquiEsta! said:
I didn't know such a thing existed. Where would I find that? In English
would be great too!
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://nanika.net/Metro/
You will love it
elio said:
http://nanika.net/Metro/
You will love it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"more than 350 cities covered now"... I'm already in love with it because
I travel a lot and this hopefully will save me time and advils.
THANK YOU!!!
off I go to set it up...
Adobe Reader for PPC 2 works with my HTC Athena/Advantage VGA screen without legibility problems using its reflow function which wraps the text to your screen - no sideways scrolling needed.
Even if your documents were not prepared specifically for this Active Sync will do the necessary conversion when you transfer the docs from your PC (turn it on in file settings). If you bypass ActiveSync your reflow button gets greyed out.
For documents like maps you can switch to sideways scrolling whenever you want.
My only gripe is that the characters are a little fuzzy, so I'm looking for a fix for this.
UPDATE: fuzzy characters fixed:
Switch resolution to 95 dpi using RealVGA before opening Adobe Reader. Now works as it was meant to. Only downside is the the resolution switch involves a reset.
For reading articles and such offline I use ScrapBook (a Firefox extension) to capture the page/selection and delete ads/sidebars and then 'Save Page as...' and copy the html and corresponding images folder to my SD card. It's a pain but it's the best solution that I could find.
I use Mobipocket Reader to do the conversion and reading, it's free and works well for me www.mobipocket.com
For PDFs Picel Browser, and Foxit Reader for Windows Mobile are pretty good.
I second the picsel reader. http://www.picselpowered.com
Don't let the number of Cons over Pros put you off.
Even with these problems I still use it on a daily basis, and preferred to buy it over using free alternatives like Adobe.
Proof that mobile apps don't have to look like clunky old windows apps.
Pro
Excellent rendering of PDF files
Fine control over zoom, can use a gesture (tap & drag)
Cons
Out of memory errors with just a few other apps running
Remembers last document opened, but not page
No Search
No way of jumping to a page
pdemoore said:
I second the picsel reader. http://www.picselpowered.com
Don't let the number of Cons over Pros put you off.
Even with these problems I still use it on a daily basis, and preferred to buy it over using free alternatives like Adobe.
Proof that mobile apps don't have to look like clunky old windows apps.
Pro
Excellent rendering of PDF files
Fine control over zoom, can use a gesture (tap & drag)
Cons
Out of memory errors with just a few other apps running
Remembers last document opened, but not page
No Search
No way of jumping to a page
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I back this as well, it is bar far, THEE most impressive on a PDA.
It has no rendering lag, making it the fastest PDF reader on WM.
I would only recommend that VGA users view PDFs, QVGA isn't practical.
I’ve promised in my ThemeGenCE review & tutorial that I would quickly compare & evaluate the current theme editors so that you know which one to pick. My previous, direct comparison of the then-available theme editors is severely outdated (for example, FunnySnake’s developer’s homepage isn’t any more accessible and ThemeBuilder 2003 is no longer available, either) and doesn’t even address WM5+-specific issues. (Nevertheless, you’ll want to read at least the second, not-that-technical part of the previous article.)
Note that I’ve reviewed the latest version of all the apps.
First, Benoît Thonnart’s already-reviewed ThemeGenCE is, despite being free, is a VERY powerful product (as of the current, 2.5.0 version). It, unless you need to create Microsoft Smartphone (touchscreen-less phones) themes or absolutely need in-program paint / red eye removal tools, is, in my opinion, the best tool for theme management. Please head over to the review & tutorial for more info on using it.
Netwasp.net Limited’s ThemeMaker lineup is one of the most important tools. There’re several, differently priced editions of them; of them, TM X (current, tested version: 3.6.1) is the most powerful one. (See the capability list * the comparison of the four versions on their homepage.)
Its image editing capabilities, on the whole, are slightly better than those of the free ThemeGenCE. For example, the latter doesn’t allow for paining at all; the same stands for it not allowing red eye removals. Selections can’t be done either (Except for, of course, effects like radial blur / zoom, where, in ThemeGenCE, you are allowed to select the center).
However, ThemeGenCE does have some advantages over TM X. First, the price: in that, it’s absolutely unbeatable, particularly because TM X costs US$ 30. Second, you can freely set the JPEG saving quality; this way, you can control the size of the output. You can’t do the same with TM X: in there, you only have three pre-defined output formats: JPG, PNG and (256-color) PNG. Third, it has some other niceties TM X doesn’t offer; for example, you can freely set several parameters for some visual effects like hatching and patterns.
If you do need freehand painting in pictures (one of the biggest advantages of TM X), you’ll want to pre-edit your imported images with, say, the free GIMP (or any other desktop tool you already have – Photoshop etc.) If you do want this at all, that is: in my opinion, painting is very rarely used and if you do need it, you may want to go for an (even more) powerful, external paining / image editing tool. All in all, I don’t think painting (and red eye removal) itself warrants the high price when compared to the free and, in many respects, still superior ThemeGenCE.
Of course, should you want to create MS Smartphone themes, you’ll want to go for either TM X or its Smartphone-only, much less pricey (and, of course, much less capable: no image editing capabilities) sibling, TM SP.
Finally, the demo version of the TM X is absolutely useless: you can navigate the menus but are only allowed to do very simple tasks (importing images – where not even the parameters may be set - and creating TSK files from them). In this regard, the commercial alternatives are definitely better: VITO ThemeEditor has a full-working 14-days version (without(!) any demo watermarks on the output images); ThemeMaker McDeb puts a huge DEMO watermark in the Today image, but still allows for accessing all the functionalities. (Note that the trial version of TM X also watermarks the output.)
VITO ThemeEditor (current version: 1.11) is a cheap ($7), but really simple product. For example, it doesn’t support non-QVGA themes. It doesn’t have image editing capabilities either. What is more, when importing the image file, it doesn’t resize it (unlike all the alternatives). Color setting-wise, it only lets for setting the today text / lines, menu text and tap&hold dots color – in addition to the WM5+ BaseHue when creating WM5+ themes. All in all, it’s, while certainly very easy to use and cheap, can’t hold a candle to the even cheaper (free) ThemeGenCE. I don’t really recommend it unless you don’t want to learn how ThemeGenCE should be used. (VITO ThemeEditor is certainly easier to learn.)
Finally, ThemeMaker McDeb (current, tested version: 4.2.0 – note that it’s still denoted as 4.1.1 on their homepage) is another “also-run” product. While its price ($18.00) isn’t particularly high, it certainly lacks functionality otherwise existing in both TM X and ThemeGenCE. For example, it has almost absolutely no image editing capabilities (except for transparency setting, flipping and resizing when importing). It, on the other hand, has much wider color setting capabilities than VITO’s ThemeEditor. Not that this helped a lot: both TM X and ThemeGenCE have excellent color setting capabilities. All in all, I don’t recommend it: go for ThemeGenCE or, if you absolutely need the additional capabilities of it, TM X.
In addition, on desktop Windows machines using Large DPI fonts - for example, on (extra) high-resolution ((W)UXGA etc. on 15(.4)”, SXGA+ on 12” monitors etc. - , the GUI is messed up. And, of course, changing the DPI setting, at least under Windows XP, does require a reboot. That is, it’s better to forget it altogether if you use large fonts on your (compared to the resolution) small-screen notebook.
Verdict
You can’t go wrong with ThemeGenCE. Make sure you give it a try – it’s certainly worth it. Again, don’t forget to check out my review & tutorial. You may also want to check out TM X but, again, I don’t think you’ll want to prefer it to ThemeGenCE, unless you need its specific features like MS Smartphone support or painting / red-eye removal functionality.
I thought I would mention the release of a new application called DynaInk. It works with both stylus and finger and allows you to draw on a blank canvas or over a file or photo. Has undo and different pen types and colours. You can save and email your drawings as well.
I liked it so much I bought it ($9.99 US) straight away after just playing with it for a minute or two.
Here is the list of features...
Multilingual
- Available in English and German.
Supports all screen types
- QVGA, VGA, Wide, Portrait and Landscape modes are supported
Drawing Tools
- Pencil (fixed width)
- Brush (draws stronger line for slow movements)
- Pen (draws stronger line for fast movements)
Color Selector
- Fast and easy to use Color Chart
- Eyedropper for selecting color from the canvas
Files (check this out)
- Exporting in industrial standard EPS format
- Export in JPG, BMP, PNG or GIF format
Instant E-mail
- You can send your work via e-mail as a JPG attachment
- DynaInk prepares your mail (with attachment) in Outlook Mobile
Background
- You can directly use image from your built in Camera as background
- Importing background from file (JPG, BMP, PNG or GIF) is also possible
- Show / hide background
Unlimited Undo
- Undo till the first step is possible
- Full drawing history with thumbnail images
- Drawing history is also saved, so you can undo your steps in loaded artworks
You can see/buy/trial the app here: http://dynaink.com
***No, I do not work for them. I just thought others would like this app.
dude you should upload it so all of us can share. do ur part to help this forum
10076757 said:
dude you should upload it so all of us can share. do ur part to help this forum
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, posting warez is not allowed. Second, if you look at my details (top left of post) there are stars, I support the forum.
Having tried other inking/drawing/note taking apps, they don't seem to do well with the capacitive screen so you end up with wobbly inaccurate lines.
Is this one better...I will give it a try, but would also value your opinion
10076757 said:
dude you should upload it so all of us can share. do ur part to help this forum
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't click a link can you?
Pleased you brought this here Nighthawk..... I was just about to do it myself.
Yes, it's a great little New Application.
Very clean and uncluttered.
Loves
1. Background Import:-
I rather like the idea you can import either as a Background or a File a picture.
What is interesting in the Background selection is you can select Camera. Next step take a Photo and it's automatically imported into DynaInk.
2. Multiple Undo's:-
This is brilliant and is a god send of a time saver.
3. Dynamic Brush Selection:-
Gives the Brush & Quill a natural drawing ability.
Dislikes
1. Removing unwanted ink strokes:-
If you draw to the edge (or near) of the screen and then select Undo then undo your strokes, after the Undo window disappears instead of clearing away all the ink strokes selected it leaves the ink on screen that was previously shown outside of the Undo window.
In other words it clears away any strokes within the Undo window but leaves the ones outside on the screen.
2. Finger Painting
It works but it's a bit hit & miss.
Maybe a Capacitive Stylus will help with this.
Queries
1. Portrait/Landscape
According to the Manual it states the program works in either Portrait or Landscape.
I can't find anywhere in how to make the program change to Landscape?
Improvements
1. Zoom Feature
It would be great if we had an option to zoom in on the work.
This would certainly help with the finger painting in help getting the finger in the right place.
Notes:
1. Well, we have 7 (seven) days trial use.
The web site needs a Forum but in the meantime I've left a few questions on the Support feedback message box.
Happy Painting all.........
I did give it a try and as a drawing application it is excellent, even just on a few minutes playing. I have the artistic ability of a small, sun-hardened cowpat (or say Tracy Emin) and the pen mode can even make a few of my daubs look reasonable.
However, I primarily wanted a scribbler for notes, for which it works up to a point if you are prepared to go slow and steady, but even then it sometimes loses the plot.
If I was a sketcher I would buy this in a heartbeat, but I don't rate it for note taking, at least if you only have your finger handy
Beards said:
Dislikes
1. Removing unwanted ink strokes:-
If you draw to the edge (or near) of the screen and then select Undo then undo your strokes, after the Undo window disappears instead of clearing away all the ink strokes selected it leaves the ink on screen that was previously shown outside of the Undo window.
In other words it clears away any strokes within the Undo window but leaves the ones outside on the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just received a reply back from DynaInk to this one.
Hi,
Thanks for reporting this problem. As I see it only occurs when you undo all your steps. This case DynaInk does not refresh the screen.
I will correct it ASAP, until that you can use File/New to undo all your steps.
Best Regards,
Gabor
-------------------------------------------
That was quick.... I only sent off the request around an hour ago.
Guys,
Received another message from DynaInk this evening:-
Thanks Mike!
I hope I can do the fix tomorrow and I will upload it to dynaink.com/download page.
Best Regards,
Gabor
--------------------------------------------
Got to hand it to DynaInk, they certainly are on the ball and look after the customer base.
damn it.. just what I've been looking for.. I am going to try it now..
thanks so much.. THANK GOD!!! finally..
bumskee said:
damn it.. just what I've been looking for.. I am going to try it now..
thanks so much.. THANK GOD!!! finally..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trust me... you won't be disappointed.
Yeah, I got responces from DynaInk last night after I posted a couple of questions to them and such, about 2 hours after I sent them. I am really impressed with that.
I can mention that the software supports WVGA, they just didn't list it in the overview.
As for rotating, could it be a HD2 issue? I'm going to fiddle with registry and will let you know.
Nighthawk said:
Yeah, I got responces from DynaInk last night after I posted a couple of questions to them and such, about 2 hours after I sent them. I am really impressed with that.
I can mention that the software supports WVGA, they just didn't list it in the overview.
As for rotating, could it be a HD2 issue? I'm going to fiddle with registry and will let you know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.. I've now sent two messages and both came back within the hour (or thereabouts).
As to the rotating, the manual doesn't give too much info (apart from actually saying Portrait/Landscape).
Would be interesting if there is a reg key.
The developer's going to send me an email very soon with the update to the problem I found on screen refresh. I'll post it here as soon as it comes through, along with any other snippets of info.
I've done the registry hack, but it didn't work (created CAB). I suspect it has to do with the value needed for the HKCU\Software\HTC\HTCSENSOR\GSensor\WhiteList >>>
Registry String: DynaInk
Value: ????
Anyone know what I should use here as a value?
*** Tried MunichWinClass, DynaInk - no luck
***UPDATE *** I have got rotation working, you can grab the CAB below for making the change.
The (SC) version is for using if DynaInk was installed on Storage Card. Having not made CABs before I wasn't sure if there is a way to set it up (WinCE Cab Manager) to recognise where app was installed automaticaly, so I made the two seperate ones.
Gustopher said:
However, I primarily wanted a scribbler for notes, for which it works up to a point if you are prepared to go slow and steady, but even then it sometimes loses the plot.
If I was a sketcher I would buy this in a heartbeat, but I don't rate it for note taking, at least if you only have your finger handy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should drop them a line via the support section on their website and ask about them making a Notes application, seems to me they have a lot of the work already done.
http://dynaink.com
Beards said:
Yes.. I've now sent two messages and both came back within the hour (or thereabouts).
As to the rotating, the manual doesn't give too much info (apart from actually saying Portrait/Landscape).
Would be interesting if there is a reg key.
The developer's going to send me an email very soon with the update to the problem I found on screen refresh. I'll post it here as soon as it comes through, along with any other snippets of info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean this...
Nighthawk said:
You mean this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah... that's the problem.
Gabor can see the problem and he's working on it.
Also, thanks for looking at a registry hack for the screen rotation.
I'm busy right now but will try it out later tonight and get back to you.
Cheers.
Mike
Nighthawk said:
You should drop them a line via the support section on their website and ask about them making a Notes application, seems to me they have a lot of the work already done.
http://dynaink.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a good thought and one that I may just follow up on, thanks.
The main problem seems to be that the fine movement and close curves required to write is misinterpreted, so you seem to get random straight lines joining what I'd guess was two points detected as having been pressed on the screen.
If you write big and slowly it's mostly ok, but I wonder if the screen can ever work properly for notes without a stylus.
Certainly not the software's fault though - it's a tidy bit of kit!
Nighthawk said:
I've done the registry hack, but it didn't work (created CAB). I suspect it has to do with the value needed for the HKCU\Software\HTC\HTCSENSOR\GSensor\WhiteList >>>
Registry String: DynaInk
Value: ????
Anyone know what I should use here as a value?
*** Tried MunichWinClass, DynaInk - no luck
***UPDATE *** I have got rotation working, you can grab the CAB below for making the change.
The (SC) version is for using if DynaInk was installed on Storage Card. Having not made CABs before I wasn't sure if there is a way to set it up (WinCE Cab Manager) to recognise where app was installed automaticaly, so I made the two seperate ones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not had chance yet to try this out Nighthawk.
Can you tell me what it actually does to the software or how it's rotated?
Is it done automatically as you rotate the screen?
It's just adds DynaInk to the GSensor Whitelist (registry), same as we had to do for TomTom.
HKCU/Software/HTC/HTCSENSOR/GSensor/ModuleName
Key: DynaInk
Value: \Storage Card\Program Files\DynaInk\DynaInk.exe
HKCU/Software/HTC/HTCSENSOR/GSensor/WhiteList
Key: DynaInk
Value: #NETCF_AGL_BASE_
I would really like to find a great ePub reader app and wondered if anyone here might know of one I haven't found, or have the skills to build one that will beat all the competition by including what I'll explain below.
As an author, I am very conscious of how books will look when read using different eReaders and different reader apps (FBReader, Aldiko, Laputa, etc.). There are two major issues I see so far with how the current stock of apps display the text content, and how they display images inside ebooks. Other than the iPad, I haven't found a single Android app that does both in a way that works for me (and I'm not sure even the iPad does it perfectly yet).
On text/content handling-- it boils down to whether the app actually uses the internal style that the author or publisher designed, meaning, does it read and use the .css stylesheet correctly or does it ignore it for the most part. In my case, the book looks perfect in ADE and Calibre on my laptop, meaning it displays exactly as it should look based on xhtml and the internal stylesheet. It also looks perfect on Aldiko both on my EVO and my rooted Nook color. But other than Aldiko, I have not seen one other app that correctly displays the book based on the styles and formatting stipulated in the .css file. Maybe the developers didn't think it mattered, or didn't know how to do it, but the .css file is part of the ePub standard.
As for image display--the iPad allows a double-tap to pop the picture off the page and view it enlarged (though I don't think you can pinch-to-zoom even then). The other day I was told the the latest version of FBReader for Android now lets you 'long-press' on a picture to optionally see a full-screen version of it in their image viewer (also excellent, though you still can't pinch-to-zoom on that larger image either). No other reader app I've found--even Aldiko--has the tap or press functionality to see a larger version of an embedded picture. So far I've had to do hyperlinks from the text to a larger version, or have thumbnails in the text linked to the larger picture, though still no pinch-to-zoom.
(Fwiw, the zoom function is a capability of the hardware apparently. On my EVO the internal viewer allows that--but the ES Image Viewer does not..so maybe it has to be built into the app. Pictures on an ePub book page are apparently limited by the page size unless you can view them separately, but getting them displayed with a viewer that also allows pinch-to-zoom hasn't been done yet I guess.)
So, not to drag this out any further, does anyone know of an existing reader app, or a new one under development, that has it all? I'd even donate some money if someone here wanted to look into making a reader app that combines the Aldiko stylesheet capability with the FBReader 'long-press' image view capability.
Personally, I have illustrations and pictures that need to be seen full-screen (better yet, zoomed to see the detail) so the image handling issue is a huge deal for me. The text handling using the .css stylesheet is for reading esthetics so that indentation, quotes, text and paragraph alignment and spacing, look good, as they would in a typical book--not all jammed together in the same size with no differentiation from one section to the next.
Any help, information, or ideas, will be appreciated. Thanks.
-JTT
Don't know if it will do it, but I have tried both Laputa and i think it was moon+ reader, they might do what you are looking for
With all due respect, I don't have time to read such a long post however Moon+ is pretty excellent
I'll try not to write as long a post next time since some people don't have time to read before they reply, though if they'd read the initial post they would have realized their response was pointless. But I'll let it slide and just say that Moon+ is very nice (I already have it) and I especially like the way it displays the Table of Contents. Unfortunately, it also ignores the .css file and style specifications, which is what was being explained in the long post...if you'd taken the time to read it.
Pickx said:
With all due respect, I don't have time to read such a long post however Moon+ is pretty excellent
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually use Laputa for most of my reading, which is a vote for that app, though I do have Moon+ as well since I've been testing all the reader apps I could find. But neither Laputa or Moon+ seem to use the .css styles when displaying the book content like Aldiko does, and neither allows any functionality to tap or press to enlarge images like FBReader does. So back to square one...but thanks for mentioning them.
This is more of a "non-answer" to your question.
I've read your entire post and I actually like your idea. So my idea is just to send your suggestion to the devs of the ePub reader (I use Moon+). They'll probably answer and give you an idea if they plan to implement the feature or what's holding them back from doing so.
Have you tried to write to Cool Reader's application (which supports epub also) author?
I dont know if when you posted this fbreader would ignore css, but i installed it today and it has CSS settings (txt alignment and font size only) plus the image tap to view
In order to develop an app remote desktop WP7, I started to with a desktop simple viewer and it works
but the problem that not show all actions that I do in Server side, that's video in YouTube can show you my problem
"watch?v=3q-FumfYsPQ&feature=youtu.be" (add it after /)
I use socket connection and I decode and encode my data (images).
this my code in WP7 client side
void Conncet(string IP_Address) {
client_socket = new Socket(AddressFamily.InterNetwork, SocketType.Stream, ProtocolType.Tcp);
SocketAsyncEventArgs socketEventArg = new SocketAsyncEventArgs()
{
RemoteEndPoint = new IPEndPoint(IPAddress.Parse(IP_Address), 4532)
};
socketEventArg.Completed += OnConncetCompleted;
client_socket.ConnectAsync(socketEventArg);
}
void StartReceiving()
{
byte[] response = new byte[131072];
SocketAsyncEventArgs socketEventArg = new SocketAsyncEventArgs();
socketEventArg.Completed += OnReceiveCompleted;
socketEventArg.SetBuffer(response, 0, response.Length);
client_socket.ReceiveAsync(socketEventArg);
}
private void ViewReceivedImage(byte[] buffer)
{ try { MemoryStream ms = new MemoryStream(buffer);
BitmapImage bi = new BitmapImage();
bi.SetSource(ms); MyImage.Source = bi;
ms.Close();
}
catch (Exception) { }
finally { StartReceiving();
} }
this my code in Server side (PC) sending images
void StartSending() { while (!stop)
try
{
Image oldimage = scr.Get_Resized_Image(wToCompare, hToCompare, scr.GetDesktopBitmapBytes());
//Thread.Sleep(1);
Image newimage = scr.Get_Resized_Image(wToCompare, hToCompare, scr.GetDesktopBitmapBytes());
byte[] buffer = scr.GetDesktop_ResizedBytes(wToSend, hToSend);
float difference = scr.difference(newimage, oldimage);
if (difference >= 1)
{
SenderSocket.Send(buffer);
}
}
catch (Exception) { }
}
My question is how can I make the send and receive fast to show the PC screen in WP7 in +/- real time.
The short answer is, you can't. Even if you compress the screen images first, which I note you're not doing, the amount of data is just too great. An uncompressed 800x480x32-bit image (such as WP7's screen can display) is 1.5MB. That's each frame. You can halve that by using 16-bit color, of course; now it's .75MB per frame. If you want even 20 frames per second - which is slower than TV or almost any video camera, but is moderately smooth for most things - that's 15 MB/sec, which is 120Mbps (about twice the speed of most WiFi, faster even than most wired networks).
With some simple image compression combined with clever data differencing (sending only the parts of the image that change), you could probably reduce that data load by at least a factor of 10. That's still too high for most Internet connections (even if your phone can download 12 Mbps, your PC probably can't upload it) but it might be usable over WiFi (802.11n probably, 802.11a or g maybe). You'd have to make your code quite a bit more complicated, of course. Additionally, the phone's processor would have to work a lot harder, since it would be decompressing the data and applying it to the changed part of the frame, instead of just dumping netowrk packets into an image buffer.
The real solution, of course, is to use one of the several programs and protocols that already exist and have the intended purpose of doing exactly what you're trying to do. The most common on Windows is called Terminal Services or Remote Desktop (Remote Desktop Protocol). Nearly all versions of Windows come with the client, and the better editions come with the server. On WP7, there are already some client apps available; the one I use is called "RemoteDesktop" (no space). Note that, in addition to having a well-optimized algorithm for screen updates (but it's *still* not going to be smooth for things like movies or games), Remote Desktop Protocol lets you control the PC directly as well.
Thanks
I look that's apps in marketplace and it looks very difficult to me, but I develop simple viewer and next time I will develop the code that can remote the PC.
the idea about send only that pixels that changed between the old image and the new image is really good, but how I ca send only that pixel and they're position in the image, that's a question.
And about compression, how I can do that with images?
Well, just compressing the full screen to .PNG or .JPG and sending it would shrink things considerably. There are .NET libraries available (there might even be one in the core library) for image compression. Alternatively, there are some excellent C/C++ libraries available, if you can code native interop. I know the phone has built-in capability to handle JPG, not sure about PNG though.
However, once the data is compressed it's hard to extract a part of it and send just that part. What I suggest you do instead is identify the portion of the image that changed. For example, if all the changed pixels fall within one rectangle, use that. Send the coordinates of the rectangle (its origin and either the opposite corner or the length/width), followed by the updated data. On the phone, listen for the rectangle to update, then write the updated data into those coordinates on the display.
Note that you may want to send multiple rectangles - for example, if the top left nd bottom right pixels change, but nothing else does, a single rectangle that encompasses both of them would have to be the entire image. Instead, send two tiny rectangles - one for each corner - and you can massively reduce the data needed. However, the process of quickly detecting a good way to break up an image into the parts that are and are not moving is tricky. You're essentially trying to create a video compression algorithm here, and although I know a little of the theory, it's totally not my area and I don't know much more than what I've told you so far.
Thanks again
I found something similare to know the pixel that chaged
Image Comparison using C#
http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/uploadfile/prathore/image-comparison-using-C-Sharp/
I will try to study it and get information how to set the coordinates, but the problem that stay is how I send it to the right position in image in client side
juste_3al_faza said:
I look that's apps in marketplace and it looks very difficult to me
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Click to collapse
I don't understand that. What is "difficult"? Enable RDP access on desktop? Or add your desktop ip address to the WP7 app? Take a look to the RemoteDesktop app by Topperware: it's fast, professionally designed and easy to use but of course not a free (however $4.99 is not much!)
As for me, it looks like you are trying to "invent a bicycle" but without basic knowledge how the remote access protocols should work. It's not that easy like just a transfer bitmap images via sockets...
I mind I don't need to use it, I want to develop a simple apps because its my project and I will get a note and pass my last year in school
juste_3al_faza said:
I mind I don't need to use it, I want to develop a simple apps because its my project and I will get a note and pass my last year in school
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now I understand OK, I can recommend you to dig in MJPEG. There are few Silverlight classes available on the web (you may google em); they may simplify your job. The picture quality isn't good or sharp enough but should be good for the student project.
you talk about compression images to mpeg????????????
have you an idea when I zoom In image in WP7, most image be clear to see, how I can do it?
Edit (After see the article about MJPEG silverlight)
It use the HTTP connexion and I use socket, It can work together?
If yes how I can combine with it (plz a sample code can help )
No, I'm talking about M(otion)JPEG over HTTP, easiest possible video streaming implementation. For the solution, you need to implement your own M-JPEG HTTP server application, and on WP7 you may use (it's already exists, google for MJPEG MediaStreamSource) MediaElement. And I don't understand your second question.
I already edit my previous post
and about the 2nd question, I mean when to pinch in WP7 screen, is the image will be clear or not.
I don't have time to write an example for you; however it's your project or homework , I just give you a direction.
As for seconds question (as far as I understand): it's depends from the image dimensions and JPEG compression level. If you resize 1920x1080 image to 800x480 with 50% quality, resulting image will looks not so good.
P.S. Check this project: http://mjpeg.codeplex.com/ To estimate output quality on Wp7, you may use any MJPEG desktop streaming solution (vlc, for example).
Thanks a lot
I finished my app and it work good, see the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCwsuj7Hcno
Cool. Looks like you get about a frame per second, which won't work for showing a video but is fine for a Powerpoint or something, and a decent proof of concept.
I'm not sure I'd recommend demoing using a video showing a commercial movie with a clearly visible "Uploaded by..." comment, at least in the USA schools tend to frown on open displays of media piracy. Otherwise, well done.
Ok next time I will use PowerPoint to use my app show