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What is the difference between these two phones (if any) and what are the differences between them and the Wizard?
Iy would be great if someone (e.g HTC) had a simple features comparison on their website but I guess that is asking for a little too much!
it's the same device... just different name
dcdivenut said:
What is the difference between these two phones (if any) and what are the differences between them and the Wizard?
Iy would be great if someone (e.g HTC) had a simple features comparison on their website but I guess that is asking for a little too much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://europe.htc.com/products/tytn.php
here you can find all specs
well it just mean that htc will not be using their internal code name
as the name they will be selling their devices retail
Rudegar said:
well it just mean that htc will not be using their internal code name
as the name they will be selling their devices retail
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes they are planning from now sell also under the brand name HTC
The TyTN is the HTC branded Hermes. T-Mobile will call it the vario II, Orange the M3100 or something and HTC names it's own device the TyTN. They are all the same hardware, only software can differ from carrier to carrier, the same as in the past with Qtek, I-Mate, T-Mobile etc. HTC chose not only to produce the Hermes, but to market the device under their own brand name as well as the TyTN.
The main differences with the Vario I are UMTS, HSPDA ready, better camera, extra cam for video telephone, jog dial and different design and button lay-out.
Dopod call Dopod 9000 or CHT9000 came out Taiwan market today,price will be NT$25,800.00 about US$800.00.
http://shopping.pchome.com.tw/dopod/detail.php?pid=AZV00183
sorry that is Chinese.
Koksie said:
The TyTN is the HTC branded Hermes. T-Mobile will call it the vario II, Orange the M3100 or something and HTC names it's own device the TyTN. They are all the same hardware, only software can differ from carrier to carrier, the same as in the past with Qtek, I-Mate, T-Mobile etc. HTC chose not only to produce the Hermes, but to market the device under their own brand name as well as the TyTN.
The main differences with the Vario I are UMTS, HSPDA ready, better camera, extra cam for video telephone, jog dial and different design and button lay-out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I started doing some digging and I am now wondering if it is really better than the Wizard. Here is what I found (warning - this is to the best of my knowledge and my uasge for the device may vary from yours so as always YMMV)
Here are the pros...
Faster processor (nice and sweet!)
more connectivity (nice if cingular gets the network up!)
Better camera (although this is a wash for me since I don't use the camera for anything close to serious.)
Jog dial - might be nice
Washes
Screen size and quality - same (not that it is bad now though)
Size - About the same. TyTN is a little longer but a bit narrower and not as deep.
Memory - Same with 128/64 and I was hoping this would be better.
Cons
Weight - The TyTN actually weighs more (26g) than the Wizard or at least the 8125 version. Not a huge deal but would be nicer to go the other way, especially if the extra weight is for a second camera for videophone that I will never use!
Micro SD - This is debatable but I see three negatives here... MicroSD does not have the capcaity that MiniSD does and I will have to get all new cards. Also mini sd is $34 for 1GB and micro SD is $47 or 38% more expensive (from new egg) If at least the tradeoff was a siginificantly smaller form factor then I would say it was okay but that is not the case so why!
odd Headphone jack - Okay, most people probably use bluetooth anyway so who cares about a hard jack, but why make upgrading any more costly than it is now. If it is to get a higher sound quality, who cares since with the reduced storage space of Micro SD it is not like you can load up 320 kbps mp3s anyway!
So basically my question is why would most people upgrade? This seems like a mild improvement at best with enough potential cons to make it a no go. That is really disappointing!
well my two cents on the Wizard and the Hermes ....
before the Cingular 8125 came out or any of the HTC Wizard flavors were available in the US, the Hermes has been in the news so i myself was planning to get an O2 XDA mini S (which i was planning to use in California) to somewhat replace my XDA Exec, I read about the Hermes and told myself to hold off and wait for the 3G version of the Wizard ... Note that the processor's clock speed is twice of the wizard ... Note also that the same Hermes CPU has been compared equal or better than the XDA Exec's Intel XScale 520Mhz CPU ...
If you are using the Cingular network then you might want to go get the Hermes maybe around the end of the year since 3G won't be available until then for Cingular ... while T-Mobile, well forget it, they won't roll out 3G in the next 2 years or so ...
It's just disappointing that we in the US are behind in mobile phone technology ... yeah we're catching up but we're still behind ....
For me the biggest plus is the UMTS. in Holland we have a 9.5 euros per month data plan with unlimited GPRS/WIfi/UMTS. A nice offer to go with the Hermes. You are right that the extra weight and the micro SD are cons, but since I hav not yet invested too much in mini SD that is not really an issue for me. Neither is the headset plug, I use the standard ones or a BT headset, so no biggie for me, especially since the Hermes will feature A2DP. And the extra weight is not important for me, I'm strong enough for the extra 26 gr.
The faster processor and the jog dial alone are worth the upgrade for me especially since it will not cost me much. Maybe 200 euros with a 1 year extension, so that's reasonable (Vario I only cost me 84 euros with a 1 year extension for 22.5 euros per month). UMTS is enough to really make the decision easy for me, let the Vario II arrive!
difensore said:
Note that the processor's clock speed is twice of the wizard ...
quote]
Partly true. The Mhz of the Hermes is twice as much and that might mean that the clock speed is doubled, but the overall speed and performance is not necessarily twice as high.
Different architecture makes an OMAP processor not easily comparable to an XScale or Samsung processor, at least not just based on Mhz. OMAP is double core and other architectural differences make the comparison above too simplified. You can compare it to the AMD and Intel processors, different Mhz (Ghz) but equal or better performance.
Anothe example are the MP in a digital camera. Just the amount of pixels does not mean much, 6 MP camera's with inferior lenses and chips may perform worse than 4 Mp camera's with better lenses and chips. We see it everyday in our beloved HTC devices, 1.3 MP in a Wizard sounds nice, but I know vga (300k) camera's that make better pictures than the Wizard.
Don't get blinded by the Mhz of the processor, that's all I want to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for me umts is the plus
and the cam is the thing i care little about
the quality of cmos cams which are used in mobiles
because the ccd which real dig cams use, use too much power
is poor even if it's 10MP
their problem is not pixels but colours and light sensitivness
imho they can only be used to photo poor pictures of loch ness
and ufo's and then you can mms the photo to your friends or something
I think the first CCD phone/pda was announced this week. The Qool Labs QDA Icon http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/handhelds/0,39001708,39260541p,00.htm
Koksie said:
Don't get blinded by the Mhz of the processor, that's all I want to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it's really fast. I have both, wizard and hermes.
Hi Raskal,
I know you are a big and busy man, but pls find some time to reply to my PMs sent to u..
hdubli said:
Hi Raskal,
I know you are a big and busy man, but pls find some time to reply to my PMs sent to u..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
resend again, i deleted a bunch of pm
raskal said:
Koksie said:
Don't get blinded by the Mhz of the processor, that's all I want to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it's really fast. I have both, wizard and hermes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta be I guess...
Hermes is the project CodeName
Typically, when hardware or software products are originally developed, the engineering group chooses a code name for the project/product, so that (1) it will be easily spoken and recognized which project you're talking about in daily conversation (within the circle of people involved in it), and (2) to make it harder for competitors to initially figure out what the project is about if they hear the name. Hermes was HTC's code name for the development project for a device whose derivatives were ultimately produced under a variety of different Marketing Names for HTC's distribution partners (eg, O2, Vodaphone, Cingular, T-Mobile, Verizon, etc). Recently, HTC decided to distribute a Hermes version under their own marketing brand ("HTC Tytn", and developed a reseller distribution channel for that brand outside of their original wireless carrier partners.
Another example of this that many folks have already heard of: Microsoft's code name for the development of a future operating system project that they started back around 2001 or so was "Longhorn"; the resulting product(s) from that project is about to ship now as "Vista". BTW, an interesting bit of trivia on this one: the MS engineering team that develop Windows were being taken to Whistler/Blackcomb ski resort in BC once per year (perk) to party & relax. So when it came time to come up with a code name for the next version of Windows to develop, they chose "Whistler" (the products coming out of this project were eventually given the names by Marketing as "Windows XP" and "Windows Server 2003"). Shortly after the Whistler project began, they also began the development of Whistler's successor, and gave it the code name of "Blackcomb" (which is the twin mountain at the ski resort next to Whistler Mountain); however, the development timeline for the original specs of Blackcomb was underestimated, feature-creep also set in which lengthened completion even more, so it became apparent that an "interim" version of Windows needed to be released before Blackcomb was ready. At the ski resort' base village, the gondola lift stations for the two mountains are a short walking distance apart, and in-between them is a bar called the "Longhorn Saloon", so they named this "in-between" development project Longhorn; as mentioned above, the Marketing name assigned to the products from this project is Vista. Meanwhile, further delays and problems plagued the Blackcomb project, so another project & code name came into existence "Vienna", and it is now uncertain whether project Blackcomb will continue or if Vienna takes its place (probably the latter). The Vienna code name came about because it is one of the cities of the world with a spectacular vista (view). Just goes to show that there are usually interesting stories behind how the development groups choose project code names, and how creative they can be. Makes you wonder what the story is behind HTC choosing the "Hermes" name, huh?
I too have both the Wizard (Cingular 8125 version) and a new HTC Tytn version of Hermes. The most important differences to me are:
> A2DP/AVRCP, and it works! (supports stereo Bluetooth headphones)
> Jog-dial (I'll use keys before stylus any chance I can get)
> Faster processor (Need for Speed)
> 2mp camera (I've rarely used a phone camera in the past because of low-res/poor quality, but now we're getting into the ballpark of acceptable quality pix)
> teleconferencing camera on the front (curious about using a potentially very cool feature as teleconferencing continues to grow among my friends & family)
> UMTS/HSDPA (Need for Speed again). Browsing with Edge is a pain in the *ss. I've become addicted to UMTS in my notebook computer wireless card...almost like DSL, and now I can actually USE the phone for browsing. I'm a "blue-side" (ATT Wireless) Cingular customer, fortunate to have UMTS around me here.
> I think the Tytn is immediately superior to the Wizard phones over-all. Worth getting one now, instead of waiting for UMTS network completion.
I concur with the previous poster about the Tytn shortcomings, in particular:
> No 2.5/3.5mm headset jack (the HTC guys that decided that one should be hung by their tongues); I'm building an adapter right now so that I can hopefully use some decent headphones & mike (the earbuds/mike that comes with the phone is crap)
> headphone connector (miniUSB) is located in an unusual location, such that third party carrying cases' made for the installed base of popular HTC phones (eg, Vaja) now have the headphone hole cut-out in the "wrong" location (ie, can't listen to mp3 music via wired headphones when the phone is in the case, unless you butcher the case to make a hole in the "right" location)
> boring aesthetic design...in a world where Motorola, Sony and now even
Samsung are leading the market in sexy styling, the HTC phones are looking pretty staid & grim.
> When is a Windows Mobile phone going to get a reliable voice-dialer, like that of the Treo (had one of those before the Wizard)? This thing is a deaf & dumb when it comes to voice recognition!
> the freakin' dial-pad buttons are STILL too small (Wizard has same problem)! I'm constantly fat-fingering the wrong keys on the screen, and I'm tired of using my fingernail to dial...does anyone out there have a better dial-pad that takes up most of the screen that can be loaded into this thing?
hi everybody
this thread is nothing new ,just wanna see how many of you is hit with the fast marketing and selling incomplete products.
lately i have seen couple of incomplete ppc devices released ,and what i mean by incomplete is:
1.hardware parts fail, like asus p525 joystick (replaced joystick 3 times)
2.very poor quality build check kaiser and eten how the color is going out ,on my asus p525 chrome of the buttons are gone...
3.ppc are not enough tested (check how many bugs new ppc have)
4.missing drivers (How could hardware be released without driver ???) xda flame and toshiba g900 with nvidea goforce 5500,kaiser with qualcom ,htc p3300 with gps one driver,.... what the hell (what is wrong with companies).
We want cheaper products and we want them now. Cheaper as in price, not quality; however, thats a catch 22.
this is prettyy common with all areas of microelectronics, not just ppc's.
of course, certain device manufaturers do tend NOT to take into users' needs (see for example the driver question with HTC or, to a lesser degree, Toshi)
For example, why do they offer the new Raphael device, which is the successor of the Titan (Mogul), which is going to be almost exactly the same as the Tytn II (Kaiser) successor ?, meaning both 2.8" screen (probably VGA), hardware keyboard, WIFI, BT 2, etc...
What is the point of having such redundancy ?
Take it from other mobile devices producers... for example, Nokia would release several phones of the same features but different design...
Well except that HTC's designs aren't that creative and stylish
Well, if anything, Apple just showed that this concept is simply wrong. There is just one iPhone design, and it sells good enough.
I could understand if the Titan(mogul) line looked *drastically* different than the Tytn line, so each could appeal to a different market (i.e women, man, children etc.), but they look practically the same, and appeal to the *exact* same market !, and I ask, what is the damn point ???
it's cheaper
What is cheaper ?
the same reason every car manufacture releases new designs every few years..
here is a list, in no special order:
1) to improve its successor flaws
2) milk the cow (us) for more $$
"What is cheaper ?"
r&d and production
the same reason every car manufacture releases new designs every few years..
here is a list, in no special order:
1) to improve its successor flaws
2) milk the cow (us) for more $$
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You totally missed my point.
I wasn't asking why the Tytn II and Tytn I exist. The answer for this is obvious.
I was asking why the Titan(mogul) line exist, parallel to the Tytn line. Both lines offer almost the *exact* same hardware and features, with a *slightly* different casing, the difference is so slight that both lines appeal to the exact same portion of the market. I simply asked for a reason for this redundancy necessity, if there is one...
Noam23 said:
You totally missed my point.
I wasn't asking why the Tytn II and Tytn I exist. The answer for this is obvious.
I was asking why the Titan(mogul) line exist, parallel to the Tytn line. Both lines offer almost the *exact* same hardware and features, with a *slightly* different casing, the difference is so slight that both lines appeal to the exact same portion of the market. I simply asked for a reason for this redundancy necessity, if there is one...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly dont understand why you are bashing htc so much. You seem like an Iphone guy so then go get one and be happy. Look HTC kicks ass and though it pissed me off that they released the TYTN2 with lacking video drivers , thats not enough reason for me to go on a anti HTC rant. I started out with a tmobile dash, then the tmobile wing, now got the HTC TYTN 2 and the upgrade is awesome.
It almost feels like the things my TYTN2 can do are endless. It does everything I need and want it to do. Everything has its cons including Iphone which I honestly believe out cons the tytn2. Sure battery life sucks and it would have been nice to have 600mhz instead of 4 but still not a bad phone. Maybe you guys just feel the need to upgrade to much. I am sure if you wait till the TYTN 4 or 5 instead of getting the 3 right after the 2 you wil be a happier camper.
Noam23 said:
You totally missed my point.
I wasn't asking why the Tytn II and Tytn I exist. The answer for this is obvious.
I was asking why the Titan(mogul) line exist, parallel to the Tytn line. Both lines offer almost the *exact* same hardware and features, with a *slightly* different casing, the difference is so slight that both lines appeal to the exact same portion of the market. I simply asked for a reason for this redundancy necessity, if there is one...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why does it matter though? just buy the one that's for you.. at least you can't complain you have no options!
there are what, 3-4 variations of the HTC touch? they're all excastly the same on the outside but internal is another animal.
back to the car analogy.. i can buy my car in like 4 variations. i bought the one with the features i needed.
The answer is obvious from a marketing point of view. To cater for different tastes, therefore increasing sales, while leveraging the technology and production processes you already have.
Your Apple example doesn't hold. The iPhone was a new device, new OS, new approach. Of course there was only one, it's not the same as a saturated market such as the Windows Mobile market is. Anyway, there will be more iPhone variants, given time, and that will increase their sales. Apple is not different in this respect. Why do they have the Airport Extreme and the Airport Express? Why did they offer a black Macbook and a white Macbook, and why did they charge more for the black version? Why do they have the iMac, the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro, if not for this reason? etc...
What do you find so strange about it anyway?
What do you find so strange about it anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find it strange because I don't see what features one line adds on the other.
Let's say, if the Titan had a 3.5" screen, and the Tytn had a 2.8" screen, then ok, that's a difference that can appeal to different type of people, or in this same line of thought, if the shape of one was very different thant the other, or the internal processor or RAM, etc.
But if they are basically the same in all features, I find it hard to understand the need for both lines.
Maybe the car analogy given earlier is appropriate, but still, those devices are so small in comparison to a car, that the slight variation in form between them pretty much goes unnoticed.
Why do they have the Airport Extreme and the Airport Express? Why did they offer a black Macbook and a white Macbook, and why did they charge more for the black version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are all tiny differences, and hence the Airpot Extreme and Airport Express carry the same family name.
Why do they have the iMac, the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro, if not for this reason? etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here the family name is different, but the products are entirely different from one another, hence it's appropriate.
The strategy the HTC is taking, producing two almost replica phones, and calling them by different family names, simply confuse the customer for no apparent reason.
people are asking about the similarities between cdma and gsm phones. internally the hardware is quite different. tytn and titan may be the same phone but look a little different, but they don't run on the same network, and the titan has no sim card slot. to answer the op, they are releasing different lines that are close to the same to cater to both cdma and gsm networks
HTC mades different models as indicated on the Wiki
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Raphael_WM6.1_ROMs
Other than the carrier differences, is there anything different between such as the RAPH100 and RAPH300?
I read a thread that seems to suggest they are different generations? Does that mean that HTC replaces RAPH100 with later versions RAPH300 when the become available or indicates that when RAPH300 has bugs fixed in earlier RAPH100?
i dont think so. i just think they are modeling for htc to know how the phone will be built for each carrier. like the us gsm version is raph110 and the cdma is raph800 and such. not meaning higher number = newer version. if you take your att fuze into a sprint/alltel store and compare it to the touch pro or vice-versa youll see the pieces to build them are different. and its just for htc to know what parts go to which phone. im not going to say i know this because i dont for sure.
As Jack inferred, it's most likely just to separate production batches. The biggest differences are probably just cosmetic -- whether the TouchPro has a glossy diamond back, a matte diamond back, or a smooth back; different keyboard layouts; and rounded (like Sprint) or squared (like Verizon) corners on the device. There are probably also ROM variations, but those owe more to carriers and their respective regions rather than any hardware difference.
I have a RAPH300 (T-Mobile MDA Vario iv) and i don't like the backside because the piece op perspex thats covering the camera lens get scratches very quick.
I expect the RAPH100 camera-lens cover much more scratch-resistant.
Also: I boucht a Bodit holder for the HTC Touch ro (landscape) and just because of the different backside my phone appears not to fit as good as I expected (based on experience with the MDA Vario I in its Brodit holder).
Does anyone know if the back cover of the RAPH100 (ie HTC Touch Pro) fits the RAPH300 (ie T-mobile MDA Vario iv)
Hi Guys & Gals.
First, a thanks for the website. It's a good read, and I've got some useful info off it. Don't know enough in this field to contribute though.
I've got a generic "which phone" question for you all.
I currently have an Orange SPV C600 (HTC Tornado), upgraded to WM 6.1. I use it mostly for phone calls, e-book reading with Mobipocket (probably 95% of the time I actually use the thing for), and sat-nav using TomTom 5 and an external Holux GPSlim 236 (which I've had to re-solder the BT module, due to the dodgy batch of receivers).
The phone is now showing its age (I bought it 2nd hand almost 3.5 years ago). It won't always start TomTom (only about 20% of time will it start properly) , it'll randomly flatten itself overnight, hangs mysteriously etc.
I now want a newer phone. Money is tight though, so I can't justify spending large sums (e.g. >£80/$130) of money on a new phone, even on a contract (my mobile bill is typically £8 a month: £3 calls, £5 data).
I'm currently looking at...
SPV M700
SPV M3100 (Hermes?)
HTC TYTN II (Kaiser)
HTC Touch Diamond (1st version, only if going for silly money on ebay)
HTC Touch Pro (1st version, only if going for silly money on ebay)
Wish list...
GPS
3G
WiFi
Touch screen
Keyboard would be nice.
Better res than 240x320 would be nice
My thoughts on the list are...
M700
Can be quite expensive on ebay (can be cheap though). Fits all of the important stuff though. Not too old.
M3100
No GPS, but has keyboard. *Can* be bought fairly cheaply, because it's quite an old model now. I've borrowed an O2 XDA (which is AFAIK the Orange SPV M3000, which is a 3100 less the 3G and WiFi). Getting on a bit.
TYTN II
Has everything, but have read many bad reviews online about graphics performance (has this been fixed?) and battery life.
Allowing for the down sides, this (so far) is my favourite, in that it ticks all of the boxes.
I *think* I've even seen a video on Youtube of someone getting TouchFlo 3D working on it.
It's getting on a bit too, but Expansys still sell them new (oddly enough for more than a Touch Pro!)
Diamond
Gorgeous screen, No keyboard, no expansion, ticks all the other boxes. Main downside is the cost. Even a broken one went for £52 on ebay!
Touch Pro.
As Diamond, but including keyboard, got expansion, ticks all boxes. Even more expensive than Diamond.
Are there any other phones I should be looking at? Have I missed a point somewhere? Am I better of sticking with my ancient flaky phone and waiting for the Diamond II prices to push the Diamond prices down? I need help here!
Thanks.
Pete.
Welcome to forums
I think 1st you have to have clear what is your main use for a device, said that and taking your list, I would choose Touch Pro.
Also will depend on how much $ you want to spend
If you are looking for something much cheap include on your list Universal, it´s a great device!
Good luck,
if you already have an external gps you should get a wizard they are really cheep an pretty good. they are a lot more responsive than the specs would have you believe. also you can get a tytn II for pretty cheep these days and the battery life is really not that bad if the wizard had an internal gps and more ram i would pick it every time over the tytn II.
Hi.
Thanks for the feedback.
I'd discounted the Universal (SPV M5000), mainly for 2 reasons.
1) It's an old design (12 months older than the M3000, and about the same age as my current phone)
2) It's just too big. Even though it's got a good size screen, I need a pocket phone.
I'll be using the device mostly for reading e-books (it saves carrying around huge numbers of physical books!). I don't find the screen size of my current Tornado sized device a problem. The other thing I'll be using it for is sat-nav. Again, the screen size isn't an issue, because I mostly follow the voice navigation, not the screen. Finally, there's the normal phone stuff of voice calls and texts, occasional web browsing etc.
Ideally it'll be 3G. I'd really like it to have WiFi.
My budget is tight, about £80/$130
josefcrist: You've echoed my own thoughts. Do I keep my existing BT GPS receiver (which gets flaky when it's hot), and go for the Tytn, or do I spend a bit extra, and go for the Tytn II with built in GPS.
One thing that makes me nervous about the M3100 is the ease with which you can brick it. Upgrading my last phone was very easy, but the Hermes forums are full of people who've bricked their phones. I'm a constant fiddler, and if there's a chance of upgrading an OS, or cooking my own, I'll give it a go.
I've found that http://pdadb.net/ allows side-by-side comparisons of phones, so I can now compare my targets, and choose the most appropriate one (e.g. I now know there's been a change in processor from Tytn to Tytn II, both ARM based. The II has double the RAM and ROM.
This page compares my existing phone with the 3 main contenders in my list.
Does anyone here have a Tytn II? I've been using a Wizard (borrowed), and I find that even though the resolution's the same as my existing phone, the pixels have quite a gap between them, giving quite a pixellated appearance.
Many thanks,
Pete.