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Hy guys,
Just to know, I'm coming from my trusty Eten M700. I bought the HTC Touch Pro about one week ago here, in Romania.
And I must say the video playback seems way too sluggish for a phone like this. On the M700, with same coreplayer version (latest), with raw frame buffer and medium quality and no other modification I could play every video I wanted. Including 720x576 xvid clips.
On this one...no matter what I set (QTV, raw frame buffer, direct draw), everything seems a little too sluggish compared to M700.
do you have the same impression, or is it just me?
I just read another thread here about video performance but it had too much dissipated info.
Gigs said:
Hy guys,
Just to know, I'm coming from my trusty Eten M700. I bought the HTC Touch Pro about one week ago here, in Romania.
And I must say the video playback seems way too sluggish for a phone like this. On the M700, with same coreplayer version (latest), with raw frame buffer and medium quality and no other modification I could play every video I wanted. Including 720x576 xvid clips.
On this one...no matter what I set (QTV, raw frame buffer, direct draw), everything seems a little too sluggish compared to M700.
do you have the same impression, or is it just me?
I just read another thread here about video performance but it had too much dissipated info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is why it's great that you started a new thread to dissipate the info further. Read the other thread(s) again, this has already been answered and solved within coreplayer.
P0ll0L0c0 said:
Which is why it's great that you started a new thread to dissipate the info further. Read the other thread(s) again, this has already been answered and solved within coreplayer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
which topic is it? i have smilar issues
Untill now I have found that QTV with Medium acceleration, and dither on has the best performance, anyway less than m700. Setting the buffer to 8000 kb did not had any effect. Still want to hear from another pro owners what they think about this.
I agree, video playback just sucks! I hate Qualcomm processors, Xscale rulezzz!
However when I put QTv, my screen goes black and there's only sound.
How did you achieve to run it on QTv???
krabicka3 said:
I agree, video playback just sucks! I hate Qualcomm processors, Xscale rulezzz!
However when I put QTv, my screen goes black and there's only sound.
How did you achieve to run it on QTv???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on what kind of file you want to play with it. On mine, some 3gp and some clips compressed for mobile devices don't show anything on screen. Try to switch to raw frame buffer, and restart core player, maybe it helps?
Unfortunately the HTC Touch Pro is not the mulitmedia phone you want if your looking to run your non-mobile encoded videos. However it still can be a awesome video player if you encode videos to the right dimension and specs.
I took this past Sunday to play around with finding just the right video format and encode settings to play video as close to vga as possible. Unfortunately the Touch Pro can't play videos in full-vga resolution. HOWEVER, it can perfectly play videos in 480x320 which when you compare to a 640x480 video on the touch pro's 2.5inch screen there is no difference in quality what so ever.
When you play small videos on such a small screen you wont notice the difference in the resolution, however comparing a qvga (320x240) to the half vga 480x320 resolution you can definitely see a difference.
I use two different encoders, one being pocket divx encoder and the other videora iphone converter.
I encoded a bunch of animes and movies using pocket divx set to 480x320, 2-Pass, vhq enabled, around 850 video bitrate and 128kb stereo bitrate and all my videos look crisp on the Touch Pro and plays smoothly.
I suggest others to try it out and benchmark the playback yourself and you'll see it'll run at a easy 135%+ which is perfect for 100% smooth playback.
Gigs said:
It depends on what kind of file you want to play with it. On mine, some 3gp and some clips compressed for mobile devices don't show anything on screen. Try to switch to raw frame buffer, and restart core player, maybe it helps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.) I suggest check two things, one be sure you are running the latest build which I assume you are,
2) under preferences and under the Qtv page look to make sure "Tytn 2 driver mode" is enabled.
3) some builds have a issue of zoomed in pictures to a an extreme amount that only a black screen shows when first installed, set the zoom to 50% and then reset to the normal or best fit.
Hopefully those changes should help you out
UPDATE: Also there is one bug I know of with Coreplayer. When coreplayer is launched and left running in the back (or if still active on screen) should the device go into sleep mode and then come back you will not be able to see any video playing when choosing to start. You'll have to close coreplayer and reopen again, I noticed this the other day and just came into mind when experiencing just now again.
I almost agree with you puerrican but I think it's such a burden to reencode....I managed to get easy after I saw that everything encoded with h264, mkv and encoders like this can't be played in the pro. However, everything I had in my computer encoded in divx, xvid, normal things works just fine with the settings I put in some posts above. I just tried 700 MB DVDrip(around 1000 kbit/s and 640x272) and some videoclip(624x352 vbr around 2300kbits) both xvid and they worked ok. 688x400 AVC1 (h264) killed the pro.It's not just the resolution but also the encoder used.
EDIT: just saw the update and I wanted to mention that I'm also using the 1.2.5 build 4506 with tytn 2 mode enabled and qtv on medium selected. And touchflo3d is disabled and I'm using the spb shell (or something like that with icons on screen).
IDEA: I think it would be interesting playing back xvid 640x480 and h264 640x480 to test this idea of mine
Definitely it is pain to go and do that. Plus reencoding speed relies heavily on your pc specs, on a high end specs your looking at around 4-5 mins for a 2-pass encoded video of 24 min length. While a movie length of 90 mins or so your looking at at least 16-22 mins.
So expect much longer wait on a lower end thats not even dual core or lower clock rate.
Until pdas start sporting dedicated gpus from nvidia or other names windows mobile wont ever benefit on being a media playback alternative which is a nice plus for those not looking to carry 2-3 devices for music, pmp, pda, and phone. Wish HTC would look into intel processors for their next unit and possibly throw in a nvidia mobile gpu like the 5500 with a decent amount of video memory. I mean at this point in the technology chain its not even remotely impossible to do so... so whats the hold up with companies???
yeah, i have no problem with mp4 at 640x480 (640x360 widescreen). mkv at high res (above 640x480) is a little juttery. my movies are usually 24fps, 1000kbps, 640x360
got same settings as gigs
coreplayer is working on fix for v1.3
I'm at a lost, I tried playing 640x480 videos on my touch pro and it stutters way too much, how are you guys managing to have to it playback flawlessly?
I dont really get whats good about watching movies on a 2.5 inch screen...do you do that on such a regular basis that this is so important ?
Regarding Video, i just watch some short youtube clips and stuff like that...
Ever tried to watch a full length movie on such a small screen ? I did that on holiday on my ipod and its really hurting the eyes to concetrate on such a small screen for 90+ minutes... not really anything you want to do regularly...besides not reencoded videos take up alot of space on your memorystick...
i dont have a problem with reencoding some videos and stuff, full length movies arent meant to be watched on a phone anyway
Well, a 2,5 inch screen is a bit too small, but our Touch Pros have a 2,8 inch screen
I have a zune and it has a 3 in screen and was perfect for watching tv videos or movies, and thats half the resolution then a TP. Cant wait to get my hand on the TP !!!
To each his own, some ppl like being able to watch videos whenever the call comes. Sometimes when I have to wait for something like a class to start or I'm away from my pc, or even on a airplane or public transportation I like to be able to watch few episodes easily and clearly. A full blown movie yea its gonna be a nuisance for a long time depending on the person. But some are accustomed to it, I for one can easily watch 4-6 episodes in a row without getting any kind of headahce.
yep, its quite convient. all in one device. it has tv out as well, so since it is simalar res to tv, it looks great
music + movies on phone, no ned for mp3 player. plus i can stream movies off my pc
yeah i see that there is room for this, but i dont think many people use this so regulary that converting a few movies is that much of a pain. You will save a lot of space on your memorystick as well.
I have modifying 2 regentries and the video is now much better.
Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=438318
Using CorePlayer the benchmark was before 75-95%,now 145%. on same videofile - Uncompressed VGA XviD.
Edit... I am sorry. It wasn't working. I just forgot,that I set the video quality to medium before.
You have to chose Medium Quality on Video Settings (with Qtv selected), otherwise it lags so much ..
Even on medium on motion scenses some frame drops
Video used for tests: RL_XQ_640x480_1500_128.avi (found somewhere here on this forum.. can't remember the topic name )
NOTE: USE OF THIS THREAD AND INFO ASSUMES YOU HAVE LEGAL AUTHORITY TO USE / ENCODE ALL SOURCE MATERIALS. I AM A US CITIZEN AND A SOLDIER, AND HENCE FALL UNDER JURISDICTION OF MANY ORGANIZATIONS, TO INCLUDE THE FEDERAL CENSORSHIP CLUB (FCC) AND THE DOUCHEBAGS MOLESTING CONSUMERS ACT. NO QUESTIONS WILL BE FIELDED REGARDING RIPPING, DOWNLOADING, OR PIRATING OF SOURCE MEDIA, REGARDLESS OF THE INQUIRER'S NATIONALITY. - Fathead, P.I.
This thread will be about video encoding, with the end product being the Raphael. My current Device, Radio and ROM are in my sig and updated for reference.
The premise of this guide: Using freely available (NON-WAREZ) CODEC and software, the user will be able to create video with audio playable on a HTC Touch Pro. The video will be of a watchable quality and small in file size.
Some of you may be familiar with my work on SEGA Dreamcast with GypPlay, DC-Divx, DC-VCD standard, and XDP (X-Rips, Inc. Dreampassport, English translation of DP 2 and above)
- Fathead, P.I.
----- START OF THEOREY -----
If you're like me, the first thing you asked yourself after buying your Fuse was "HOLY ****! I can run 4x the storage on this thing that my old Wizard could!" Yes, 16 GB of Micro-SD goodness is freakin' sweet. But how to use it? You can only listen to so much music per week, even with Napster To Go. You can only play so many games. (I'm further reduced due to lack of a usable joy pad for Pocket Nester.) Why not throw some movies on this joker?
----- VIDEO FORMAT -----
The first thing most people want to know is "What resolution and format should I use?" I am a longtime fan of Divx. I have used it to successfully create video content for low end devices, specifically the SEGA Dreamcast. Creating or downsampling content for a mobile phone gives us a considerable edge over bigger-screen counterparts. Before we jump into the configuration of settings and knob-dicking with software, let's figure out just what kind of video we want to produce.
FRAME RATE
Most content you find will come in one of 3 frame rates:
30 FPS (VHS / NTSC Broadcast / DVD / Blu-Ray(?) )
25 FPS (PAL)
23.976 FPS (Actual frame rate used to record cinema and produce much media)
The first thing you need to realize is that many things initially encoded in 30 FPS can be converted back to 23.976 FPS with no loss of fluidity or data. If your source is a webcam, skip the scaling to 23.976 and drop down to frame decimation. If your source is film, you're in luck. The other frames are just dummy frames that waste a little data. Deleting those frames frees up more video data to better express the picture information in the other 23.976 frames. This trick allows you to:
A. Use a lower bitrate (and hence smaller file) for the same picture OR
B. Get a better picture at the current bitrate
To figure out the frame rate, load up your file in V-Dub and go to File - File Information. The Data Rate box in the Video Stream area will tell you current bit rate, while frame size will give you resolution and frame rate. If you have a 23.976 FPS source, continue. If you have a 30 FPS source that you think should be 23.976 FPS (Film, etc) :
1. Load up the file in V-Dub.
2. Go to the Video drop down menu. Select Frame Rate (CTL+R is shortcut)
3. Change the Frame Rate on the source to 23.976 FPS.
If you continue to have audio sync issues with this method, leave the file at 30 FPS and continue.
Now we are going to look at frame decimation. Frame decimation drops every X frame while keeping the audio sync'd. The end result is a file X the frame rate of the source. While this is noticeable on large screens, on the Touch Pro / Diamond Screens (and probably even the HD), it shouldn't be an issue at all. You can play with this option. It is more noticeable on film, but I cannot see a difference at all on animated sources.
I use the decimate by 2 option in VDub. Video -> Frame Rate (CTL+R shortcut) and select Decimate video frame rate by 2. Our output video is now half the frame rate of our source. The end result is we can:
A. Get a better picture with the current video bit rate OR
B. Lower the video bit rate to get the same picture in a smaller size.
I use option B. Another big advantage here is that the device is trying to decode half the frames. A general rule about audio and video playback: The lower the bit rate you ask the device to handle, the less work it has to do to decode and display the video, and less battery power will be used.
RESOLUTION
Most content you will find is around 640 x 480. DVD sources usually come around 720x480. Blu-Ray would be above that, but possibly scaled down. We are going to watch this movie on a 3 inch screen. Guess what that means? If we never found a video about 320x240, or comparable widescreen resolution, It wouldn't matter. At all. Stepping up to 640x480 is just going to quadruple the amount of pixels we are trying to express on a limited budget.
A handy tool I use in V-Dub is the 2:1 reduction filter (high quality). To kick kit on, go to Video -> Filters (CTL+F). Click add, and it should be the first filter you can choose. This cuts your resolution by half. As a rule of thumb, If I've got a source that's around 640x480 (or 16:9 equiv) or higher, I hit it with the 2:1. You'll find oddball sources like 480 x 360, you can give it a shot, but it might not be worth it. Again, lower resolution means less pixels to express both in bit rate and in reproduction (playback).
Pausing here again, tired as hell.
THE SOFTWARE I USE
Video Editing / Audio and Video Compression and Mux - Virtual Dub. Totally free. I usually refer to this as VDub.
Home
Download
Audio Compression CODEC - LAME MP3 - Free and versatile.
Home
Compiled Binaries
Use the ACM Binary here for Windows and Virtual Dub
Video Compression CODEC / PC and SP/PPC Player - Divx - Decoder, player, mobile player, and MOST of the Encoder are FREE. DO NOT POST ABOUT CRACKING THIS.
Home / CODEC and PC Player
MOBILE (PPC and SP) Player
One more for good measure...
Okay, replies and requests, go!
Am I correct in thinking that videos should be encoded in 640 x 480 ?
*RESERVED*
cucusoft
i use Cucusoft Ultimate DVD + Video Converter Suite
mpeg-4
video bitrate 600kbit/s
framerate, depends from 23.976 to 25 (not important)
videosize 480x368
format 4:3
audio aac
128kb/s
samplerate 48000k
2 chanels stereo
it works fine, no framedrops
played with coreplayer 1.25 build 4506
I just use the standard 700mb divx movie in .avi
I use the free divx player V0.91
Smaller would be sweeter.
Taking a break for a bit, added some new material. Internets in the hotel are barely functional.
I'll be focusing on getting files down to smaller levels. The theorey should give you enough information to start dramatically cutting your file sizes. I've been moving my Boondocks DVD over to Divx 6.8 movies. Averaging 40 megs per episode.
I have been using spb mobile dvd for a few years now. It is very easy to use can convert straight from a dvd or a video file and supports vga res.
Will have to check that one out, have been thinking about backing up my DVD's to mobile, will be traveling about 26 - 30 weeks out of the year and need some boredom killers.
Gonna score some sleep and SEGA time, later all.
Added some new info, taking a pre breakfast nap.
i use slysoft clonedvdmobile. output at vga res and filesize around 700mb seems to run fine for me...although its not free, its well worth the money
Brendo said:
i use slysoft clonedvdmobile. output at vga res and filesize around 700mb seems to run fine for me...although its not free, its well worth the money
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a great bit of software. It also utilises all 4 cores on my Q6600. Another fantastic program is DvDFab which can transcode DVD to Divx/Xvid/MP4 etc on the fly, or dump the Video TS to your HD.
Going to have to check all this out. Have many a DVD that needs ripped. Wonder if any of those have a frame decimation feature. I like my 30 - 40 meg per episode cartoons.
Based on some comments in other threads, I've tried a couple of freeware programs to try to encode in the format that works so well with WMP (MP4, H.264, 640x368, 1000 Kbps, AAC @ 96Kbps): DVD Decrypter + SUPER for one and AutoMKV for the other. However, I haven't been fully successful with either, so I'm hoping that someone who uses these tools can clue me in on the appropriate settings and procedures for encoding.
The combination of DVD Decrypter and SUPER creates very nice movies for playback on the Fuze. Unfortunately, DVD Decrypter keeps the VOB structure from the DVD and SUPER follows suit, which means that a movie will be broken into several pieces at arbitrary points: unsatisfactory, to say the least. The SUPER support forum mentions a way to join inputs into a single output, but following what I understood those instructions to say did not, in fact, result in a combined file.
AutoMKV is very convenient, as it is a single program (or at least UI) to both rip and encode. Unfortunately, I haven't found the settings that generate output that is comparable to the SUPER output -- WMP won't play any of the files I've managed to create so far.
Anybody use these successfully and can share how they do it? TIA.
amerisoft, works very well for me so far, except an occasional blank screen
Just wanted to add...
I don't bother encoding video anymore. Sure, a full-blown 50 minute xvid show might be 400meg. However, the touch pro does not have any issue playing such files back.
Makes life much easier!
I'd agree. I've loaded up a couple of 700MB XVIDs and had no problem playing them.
For some reason, my Sprint Touch Pro has issues playing back even reasonable quality video. For instance, 640x480 video at 1200k (MP4) is a little choppy in WMP, and almost -everything- is extremely choppy in TCPMP, no matter how it's encoded, including 350MB 45-minute XVid TV shows.
AndyCR said:
For some reason, my Sprint Touch Pro has issues playing back even reasonable quality video. For instance, 640x480 video at 1200k (MP4) is a little choppy in WMP, and almost -everything- is extremely choppy in TCPMP, no matter how it's encoded, including 350MB 45-minute XVid TV shows.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I understand it, it's a driver issue. (This is what I've gathered across numerous postings here; someone please correct me if I've gotten something wrong.) The Qualcomm chipset in the TP/Fuze has an efficient driver called Qtv, but Qualcomm charges for a license. WMP appears to incorporate the driver, so it's able to handle moderately challenging videos. 1200 Kbps might be a little more than it's capable of displaying smoothly, but people have reported that 1000 Kbps plays well. On my one trial with DVD Decrypter + SUPER, that was the case for me, too -- full resolution and smooth motion for a video ripped from a DVD with the specs I reported in my earlier message in this thread.
TCPMP, on the other hand, does not include the Qtv driver, so in order to get smooth playback you have to reduce the size, resolution, or frame rate.
Coreplayer has a reverse-engineered partial driver for Qtv. As a result, it falls between TCPMP and WP in capabilities. It is claimed that version 3.0 of Coreplayer will have full Qtv support.
I love to danse Salsa and have to practice a lot and like to watch Salsa move video's on youtube. Every now and than i download some videos to watch how moves are performed. It would be great to have video player that could (easily) set start and end marker AND play videos in slow motion so i can analyse each move better.
I already downloaded ReplayerStudio for my pc (but it won't play slow motion) but it should generaly give an idea of what i would like.
I know there are quit some players that support (good) A-B repeat like Act 1 but never in combination with slow motion.
Btw I tried Slow Motion but it doesn't work and the comments make me believe it's not just me :/
AB button and Slower Playback speed
Use VLC. The AB button is not normally displayed. You have to turn it on via the menu: View > Advanced Controls.
To control playback speed look in the lower right corner under the volume control. You'll see the 1.00x. Simply, right-click on that and you'll be able to set the playback speed to a slower or faster pace. These two features are an awesome combination. I use it all the time for my tai chi and martials arts.
Good luck!
PC issues best dealt with on a PC forum.
1. MKV - no support in native player
2. 720p mp4 high profile with AAC audio - excellent playback
3. XVID avi - excellent playback
4. Bluetooth audio - no lag!! very good sound quality (tested with jaybird freedom)
5. PDF files - large graphic intensive textbooks - load fast and scroll smoothly (using native Reader app)
6. Flash support in browser - not good - spotty at best - suspect rumor about flash only on approved "whitelisted" sites may be true - need to test more
Just getting started first hour only with this thing - so far first impression:
Not intuitive at all, high learning curve, but suspect that once familar, will be more capable than comparable Android tablet. Not sure this will sell because I think it will appeal to the more tech savy and confuse less tech capable individuals. So far - I like it.
Where does it seem to fall in the spectrum:
Apple philosophy - walled garden - no freedom - but simple
Microsoft philosophy - too much freedom - confusing to the unfamilar
Android seems to fall somewhere in the middle.
Yeah the lack of MKV is rough. I am hoping somone comes out with a solution soon to take care of that little problem. So far I kind of like mine. A little heavier than I like in a tablet and Win8 is... weird. But still kind of like it.
Digital Man said:
1. MKV - no support in native player
2. 720p mp4 high profile with AAC audio - excellent playback
3. XVID avi - excellent playback
4. Bluetooth audio - no lag!! very good sound quality (tested with jaybird freedom)
5. PDF files - large graphic intensive textbooks - load fast and scroll smoothly (using native Reader app)
6. Flash support in browser - not good - spotty at best - suspect rumor about flash only on approved "whitelisted" sites may be true - need to test more
Just getting started first hour only with this thing - so far first impression:
Not intuitive at all, high learning curve, but suspect that once familar, will be more capable than comparable Android tablet. Not sure this will sell because I think it will appeal to the more tech savy and confuse less tech capable individuals. So far - I like it.
Where does it seem to fall in the spectrum:
Apple philosophy - walled garden - no freedom - but simple
Microsoft philosophy - too much freedom - confusing to the unfamilar
Android seems to fall somewhere in the middle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
madpoet said:
Yeah the lack of MKV is rough. I am hoping somone comes out with a solution soon to take care of that little problem. So far I kind of like mine. A little heavier than I like in a tablet and Win8 is... weird. But still kind of like it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Little tip - you can convert MKV to MP4 using the free software avidemux in about 2 minutes - then it will play fine on the surface.
No re-encoding of video required - just re-muxes in a new container - same video - re-encode audio to AAC so tegra 3 can handle it with hardware.
In Avidemux:
Open file - may take a minute to load
Video Output field: Chose COPY
Audio Output field: Chose AAC (can also select filter to re-mix to stereo - I usually do that as well)
AVI Muxer field : chose MP4
Thats it
Go to Save and save it with a name of your choice and it will automatically re-mux to MP4 which will play on Surface just fine.
Why is this useful? Handbrake and core i7 - re-encode a two hour movie in 30 to 45 minutes
But if you use Avidemuxer your done in 2 to 5 minutes depending on file size.
Use Avidemux 2.6 or later - its the easiest version
Good tip!
Given that Surface already has hardware support for the codec, writing an app that groks MKV and can pull the video stream out of it to play throughthe native decoder shouldn't be a problem.
Once upon a time there was TCPMP (CorePlayer) for WM. It had one interesting feature - benchmarking. This options forces player to play video as fast as possible and measures FPS (until you hit stop or video ends).
Such feature is really useful for testing overall perfomance and perfomance hit/gain of different options (how much "speed-up tricks" help, how much subtitle rendering consumes, new decoder optimisations, etc.).
Interesting thought. Though, you could always use something like Antutu, or get an FPS meter app?
CDB-Man said:
Interesting thought. Though, you could always use something like Antutu, or get an FPS meter app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a bit different - it measures real playback perfomance, not some abstract number. Even if it was measuring pure cpu perfomance - different archictures have different efficiency at video decoding (think about extentions like MMX/SSE/AVX on x86), plus decoder gets better over time (you get more fps for same cpu perfomance).
Is 40k in antutu enough to play 720p hi10p flawlessy? "It depends".
Fpsmeter will (at best) show only frame drops - when player was not fast enough to draw a frame. If you play 30 fps video and it will say that it plays at 20 fps - it doesn't mean that you can play similar video at 20 fps or that you need to get 50% faster. And if it plays without frame drops - you'll never know how much extra perfomance you have.
But that way it would be possible to do such things:
1) Run video and say:
- "hey, it runs at >120%, I don't need to touch anything to be happy".
- "it runs at 100%, which means that it barely could play it - I need to do something".
- "it runs at <80%, nothing will help so it's better to give up".
2) Change settings and say:
- "switching to yuv/rgb32/rgb16 made it 10% faster, so I should probably use it if I'm happy with quality"
- "I needed some extra perfomance and speed-up tricks got me extra 30% - just what I needed"
3) Give video and ask to benchmark it and then judge how capable the device it (I've seen people that say "flawlessly"/"watchable"/"playable" at 15 fps).
For example I've wasted hours testing hi10p perfomance on my Z3c - sometimes it plays flawlessely, sometimes overheats (drops cpu freq), sometimes lags... and there're different setting to play with, let alone videos with different complexity (and subtiles).
Mx is a media player not a benchmarking tool. I think this feature will only hog unnecessary space for thousands of people.
I partially agree with the OP.
Benchmarking would help with identifying how fast the decoding/rendering is on a certain device.
However, I think there's more value doing this for the ffmpeg team