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This sort of thing pretty much proves Windows Mobile is dying...

http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7890.html

darthbane2k said:
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7890.html
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I think its pretty shameful.
Surur

Hmmm....
I don't think Windows Mobile is going anywhere. Theres too many of us out there.

i think this thread should be trash as its counter productive

rjgraves said:
I don't think Windows Mobile is going anywhere. Theres too many of us out there.
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That's what I thought about the Clie... and Palm OS... wow, this sucks. Yet it is oddly familiar to me

This does not prove anything. In fact, I was just reading a recent study which suggests that based on the trends that symbian phones are the ones on the way out and that WM phones, IPhone and other smart phones are all on the rise. Look at the MOTO Razr - it use to be the best selling phone on the market, not anymore. In fact - Motorolla is hurting and at risk now because they can't come out with a device to compete against the new WM smartphones - IPhone, Android phones etc....

think wm was at first mostly intresting for business people who dident want
palm og blackbarry for some reason
and us geeks who liked to have a phone/pda that was not unlike the windows
we had one the pc's
then apple made iphones and get the interest of a lot of people who used
to say that our phone were too much bricks too complex and not easy enough to use
now many many apps are being made for iphones but not sure that it's at the expense of
of wm just a bigger market
if anybody kills wm it would suspect android as it's closer to the open wm platform then apple is where lack of openness scar us away

Calling it a dying OS is pretty meaningless based on the release of an application from a single group in the Microsoft Labs (like google labs, it's more like a play area). Microsoft Labs has released a number of things that were never meant to go anywhere, and often things that were discontinued despite being popular. Considering what the application does (in terms of audience), it's more likely that the application was released to test the Deep Zoom service, or at least build up it's user base. Assuming popularity of Seadragon, I wouldn't be surprised to see it included in a lot of WM7 phones when they come out soon. This is also a common move by microsoft, waiting to release an app until they can make a grand entrance with it, which packaging this along with WM7 definitely fits.
Also remember that WM6.1 is actually the oldest of the smartphone competitors out there. We all know that MS is going to be releasing 7 in the very near future, which by all reports should put it into the realm of ridiculously cool features and in many ways it will either match or exceed almost anything currently out.

Rudegar said:
think wm was at first mostly intresting for business people who dident want
palm og blackbarry for some reason
and us geeks who liked to have a phone/pda that was not unlike the windows
we had one the pc's
then apple made iphones and get the interest of a lot of people who used
to say that our phone were too much bricks too complex and not easy enough to use
now many many apps are being made for iphones but not sure that it's at the expense of
of wm just a bigger market
if anybody kills wm it would suspect android as it's closer to the open wm platform then apple is where lack of openness scar us away
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I second this
totally agree

WM is going nowhere for the short term, when we get like Palm OS *then* I'll worry.

to say because MS released one app for iPhone befroe WM means the WM is dying is like saying the MS Office for Mac foreshadowed the downfall of the PC!
All it really means is tha MS acknowledges there is another market for their products.

i think its ms making the point that even the die hardest mac fan cant live without ms products

I think this is a great sign. I would love to see MS release a Zune Mobile app for the iPhone and one-up Apple on their own platform.

motionmind said:
I think this is a great sign. I would love to see MS release a Zune Mobile app for the iPhone and one-up Apple on their own platform.
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Cannot be done.
Apple does not allow software in their app store that resembles or competes too directly with anything they are putting out. Zune would obviously be a direct competitor.
Obviously there's always jailbroken iphones which could install it, but most of the apps people install with that are small distribution and generally not a threat. If microsoft put out the Zune software specifically with jailbroken iphones in mind, it would take less than a blink before Apple's lawyers were having orgasms at the idea of getting MS into court.
I know you're meaning it as a joke (at least I assume you are), and I'm taking your joke seriously...but I only do that because I also believe that it would be a truly great thing to see Apple forced into allowing the Zune software after they've worked so hard to exclude fair competition in business (you know, the same thing that kept MS court for a decade)
Sorry if that sounds bad, I admit, I've hated apple since before there were hard drives in their computers

speed_pour said:
I know you're meaning it as a joke (at least I assume you are), and I'm taking your joke seriously...
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I'm 100% serious. I wouldn't mind having an iPhone if I could use my Zune subscription service with it. I've tried iTunes and it's really a cluttered mess compared to the Zune software, plus no subscription options. My wife has an iPhone and a Zune player because of this same issue.

derekwilkinson said:
That's what I thought about the Clie... and Palm OS... wow, this sucks. Yet it is oddly familiar to me
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I can't confirm anything, but two years ago I think their R&D department consisted of a single guy with an old M505. Windows Mobile might not get all the cool stuff, but at least it's up to date and totally hackable.
I love the open platform and all its possibilities

I'm quite certain that there is a simple and clear reason for releasing seadragon on the iPhone before WM.
The iPhone exists in the form of two handsets only, and they are near identical hardware. This means that it is simple to write some code to make use of the CPU and graphics acceleration in the best possible way.
There are huge numbers of WM handsets, and they all have different capabilities and different hardware interfaces. This make it damn near impossible to code an application like seadragon. None also the dearth of genuinely impressive 3d games on the WM scene, as against the iPhone app store. Same reason.
Any games we make have to be tweaked for different resolution, hardware etc. Even the prolific developers (the guy behind s2u2, s2v etc.) finds it difficult and has to hard code in support for direct3d, opengl and all sorts of different things. Even then s2v struggles on the better phones out there.

I wonder why people keep reading msmobiles... it is the windows mobile equivalent of a tabloid, and the arguments the author keeps making over and over and over again can at best described as clownish.

The future of Windows Mobile 6.5?

So I'm contemplating a new smartphone and I like many of the things about the TouchPro 2. But my biggest fear is that WM 6.5 is on the door step of being obsolete. With the announcement of Windows Phone 7, apps and updates for 6.5 still going to be out there? I expect that I'll use my phone for the next 2 years or so... I'd hate to keep seeing new and exciting stuff come around for the iPhone, Android, and WP7, with nothing new for the 6.5.
Am I right to be worried?

Your concern is fair. I have a TP2 and a HD2. The good news is there is a large number of software options out there for 6.5. Microsoft says that 6.5 is not being replaced by 7 but that does not mean developers are going to continue to create applications.

WM 6.5 is still supported for next 2-3 years so if you're going to buy a new phone in 2 years you are still fine with WM in my opinion. I just bought my wife a Touch2 few days ago.
For the record the new sdkcerts from Microsoft (with were expired in Dez 09 and re-newed in Jan 10) are valid until 2015. So I guess after 2015 development for WM is no longer possible.

I agree with your concern. I've used WM since 5.0 and have carried most applications from one OS to the next, some with upgrades from the developer. I hate to think that when I do finally have to move to android or WM7 or whatever is out there then that I will have to reinvest in what has become for me a new basic set of apps.

alanrichey said:
I agree with your concern. I've used WM since 5.0 and have carried most applications from one OS to the next, some with upgrades from the developer. I hate to think that when I do finally have to move to android or WM7 or whatever is out there then that I will have to reinvest in what has become for me a new basic set of apps.
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i have the same feelings.

RAMMANN said:
For the record the new sdkcerts from Microsoft (with were expired in Dez 09 and re-newed in Jan 10) are valid until 2015. So I guess after 2015 development for WM is no longer possible.
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Is this really true? Is it impossible to renew the certificates, or develop applications after they have expired? Is the phone unusable after 2015? I am playing with the same thought to buy a Windows Mobile 6.5 device in near future, but if the phone locks after the certs expire, I have to think about better buying a Android Smartphone?! I don't really think that I will use my phone the next 4 years, but maybe if there are no good phones in future...
I think Windows Mobile is one of the most versatile OS on the market, because it is possible to run Android parallel from SD card. Only iOS is possible to do nearly the same. The next advantage is the huge know-how for such an old and durable system. Currently I'm using a XPERIA X1 and I never had the feeling that this OS (WM 6.1) is outdated. It is still timeless and functional. The usability is debatable, because you have a huge range of customization, user interfaces and a lot of free applications... The best thing is, that you can manage lot of things by modyfing the registry. With some tweaks I got my X1 to a very good performance. I would like to use it as second/spare phone in future
Hopefully anyone can answer my questions...
Best Regards
zyclop
P.S.: I don't want to buy an iPhone or a Windows 7 Phone, because WP7 has too many things missing and I would like to wait for a few updates and improvements first (maybe one or two years). iOS has too many restrictions for my requirement and iPhones are still too expensive.

Sadly enough, Windows Mobile is now a dead platform. No support from the new WP7 Marketplace thus no developers on board.
Plus no Angry Birds makes this platform virtually gone now.

qipengart said:
Sadly enough, Windows Mobile is now a dead platform. No support from the new WP7 Marketplace thus no developers on board.
Plus no Angry Birds makes this platform virtually gone now.
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Except that there are shed loads of other places to get apps from.
Compared with other app sites, MS Marketplace hardly has any apps for WM6.
The truth of the matter is that the phones won't suddenly stop working, WM has been renamed Windows Mobile Classic, there are plenty of sites providing apps for it, and no one knows how long this will continue.

But no new devices
Maybe someone can confirm this, but I suspect that Microsoft is no longer selling licenses to WM 6.5.x, or any version except WM7. So it is impossible for manufacturers to build any more WM 6.x devices - they can't get the OS license.

stevedebi said:
Maybe someone can confirm this, but I suspect that Microsoft is no longer selling licenses to WM 6.5.x, or any version except WM7. So it is impossible for manufacturers to build any more WM 6.x devices - they can't get the OS license.
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Holy necro-posting Batman.

just use android

efeguwewe said:
just use android
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It's not yet good enough.

The End Of Windows Mobile?

Hi,
I have been increasingly concerned over future development (if any) of Windows Mobile. Having bought my TG01 only in February with the joy of believing that windows mobile would expand to windows mobile 7, I am now very disappointed to discover that this won't happen. Here are some article snippets I have seen in the news highlights:
"TG01 won't get windows mobile 7 upgrade"
Original Source: Can't seem to find it again on google, but have seen it on google within last few days.
and
"Adobe kills Flash Player 10.1 for Windows Mobile 6.5, smitten with Windows Phone 7 Series"
"If you’re not feeling a bit sorry for the aging Windows Mobile platform, you should be. With Windows Phone 7 completely overshadowing Windows Mobile 6.5 and Adobe confirming the death of Flash 10.1 for WinMo, the stylus-happy smartphone operating system of yester-year is being kicked to the curb left and right."
Original Source:
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/02/2...-6-5-smitten-with-windows-phone-7-series.html
Just wondered what other WM users think? Personally, I'm tempted to sell my TG01 fast before it's too late, but can't help but wonder if I'm making the right decision, and wouldn't know what to replace it with.
I keep reading negative headlines for windows mobile, and I think it won't be long before most phone manufacturers choose Android as their OS, therefore making windows mobile redundant. I suppose windows mobile has been around for some time now, so perhaps I shouldnt have bought a phone with a OS that is heading for 'death'.

Wrong section for this thread... But...
Many WinMo devices in the past never received official updates... My phone is from 2008 and didn't even receive a 6.5 update...
If you ask me Microsoft is going in the wrong direction. . They abandoning everything that made the platform great to focus on interface and dumb down the OS (I hate how they are iPhoning the system). In a nutshell it's the PocketPC deevolved from a tiny computer into a mere feature phone... They have already lost a great deal of 3rd party developer (professional and amateurs... most freeware devs and hackers got off the wagon)... The lack of quality freeware and OSS content is what will utterly drive me and many others to Android.
Samsung has released Bada... HTC doesn't seem pleased with the UI modifications constraints and has an ever increasing number of Android devices... Regardless of my opinion about them they are the current two biggest WinMo phones producers. If these two companies drop the platform it's as good as dead.
The signs of death are way older than this (just look at the state of many OSS projects and emulation... also the smaller number of commercial apps and quality games... even some bogus apps iPhone clones that users currently request here). Adobe is just throwing a tantrum (but considering Microsoft is pushing Sirlverlight, Apple is developing Gianduia and the eminence of HTML5... I don't know if they can afford the price) very much like Mozilla did when they cancelled Fennec for WinMo.

install mobile shell 3.5 much better then any microsoft update lol

We even lost support for Skype ! Whate a shame. Windows Mobile is really coming to its end :/
I recently bought a HTC HD2 and sold it because I realised there is no future in Windows Mobile..

It might be the end of Windows Mobile.
But if our great XDA hackers manage to compile a fully functional Linux kernel with required drivers over time, I assure you the use of your device won't be lost. It's still one of the best hardware devices out there at the moment if you ask me.
With that, Windows Mobile will still be what it was. I'd not even WANT Windows 7 if it is heading the way it's going now..

You people need to get the facts right.
Firmware updates DO NOT COME FROM MICROSOFT.
They are custom built by each manufacturer.
It is HTC, SE, etc... that do NOT update their phones. They make money by selling hardware, so "no new features" on old hardware is an industry standard.
It is TRUE that windows mobile 7 will include an update feature similar to that of android where you can get OS updates without having to resort to flashing the whole firmware.
What isn't true is that microsoft will give you windows mobile 8 for free and so on...
Google is giving you "free" updates because android is a platform for google to sell it's services... gmail, calendar... etc.
TRUE STORY:
1. Make something easy to use and people will come running, and give up their privacy and data on the way.
2. People don't actually USE windows mobile. They just push the buttons. Windows mobile is a platform too, a business platform. You need a business built around MS technologies to take advantage of it's true value.

They told us, WM 6.5 will be continued for professional users. But I think, if this really happens, new software will be rare: Skype is off the hook. Many other may/will follow: They want big business with many customers.
I plan my switch to Android. HTC Desire is at the top of the wish list !! I hope there will be as much quality software as there is for windows mobile here at XDA devs! I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .

I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .
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The reason I'm never changing to Android.
Very sorry to hear that Skype has been discontinued. Is someone able to confirm that this:
"Can I still use Skype for Windows phones if I already have it?
Yes. People who have already installed Skype for Windows phones can of course continue to use it."
means that as long as you have skype installed, you can still use it, meaning forever?
Well, I'll continue using my TG01 for another 6 weeks and then I'm putting it on ebay for around £150 Sim-free. Not sure if I'll be following the phone market anymore. I've seen a rapid flow of tablets being made recently and with the addition of 3G, I think that they could possibly overtake mobile phone market, but as they are still coming to the surface, they need a little more time so it's a waiting game for now.
At least windows mobile was easy and fast to navigate, but what's the point in following it if developers are leaving in droves and software is dying out.
Bring on Windows 7 (not the mobile version, but a more portable version of the desktop version ). RIP windows mobile Good (in a way) while it lasted.

Tozzy2 said:
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
Very sorry to hear that Skype has been discontinued. Is someone able to confirm that this:
"Can I still use Skype for Windows phones if I already have it?
Yes. People who have already installed Skype for Windows phones can of course continue to use it."
means that as long as you have skype installed, you can still use it, meaning forever?
Well, I'll continue using my TG01 for another 6 weeks and then I'm putting it on ebay for around £150 Sim-free. Not sure if I'll be following the phone market anymore. I've seen a rapid flow of tablets being made recently and with the addition of 3G, I think that they could possibly overtake mobile phone market, but as they are still coming to the surface, they need a little more time so it's a waiting game for now.
At least windows mobile was easy and fast to navigate, but what's the point in following it if developers are leaving in droves and software is dying out.
Bring on Windows 7 (not the mobile version, but a more portable version of the desktop version ). RIP windows mobile Good (in a way) while it lasted.
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In my opinion in the near future many WM-programmers will switch to Android-programming. As we can see here in this community this switch has already started! That's a nice developement. I tested the HTC Legend last week and it was nice! You can even use the phone with minimal dependence on Google (apart from Android updates of course)!
Certainly the old Skype will work. But if Skype changes some fundamental things, you have to switch to programs with skype support like Fring. When WM is really dead, even the support for those apps would die, too.

But surely, eventually, someone could hack the TG01 to make it compatible with windows mobile 7 unless TG01 isn't hardware equipped to be able to run it? Perhaps there could be a slim chance? After all, the problem doesn't lie in the phone, but in the inupgradeable OS.

Guys your right!
its just dawned on me: What is the future of ' Microsoft Windows Mobile'
As Windows Phone 7, sounds rubbish and Wm is losing support from:
Skype IM
Adobe Flash 10.1
I fear the days are numbered before Android takes it thrown

I'm disappointed as well.
I'm heavily relying on Outlook to sync up two pocket pc phones (TP2s), as well as SpbFinance.
I wonder what's going to happen to Outlook, once Windows doesn't cater to adults, but only social networking teens and tweens? I imagine that other OSes, that put in some effort to use Outlook & Exchange, will eventually drop that too.

I have a second PC at home with OpenSUSE 11 on it, more as a curiosity than anything else. Maybe it's time to install GCC, the Eclipse IDE, and the Android SDK on it and start all over again. I'll probably start hanging out in the Android Development Forum.
As an aside, all the above are available totally gratis. Download them, install and run them, all under the GNU licenses.
In the early days Microsoft gave away Embedded Tools 3 (C++ and VB) and the later improved Embedded C++ 4.0, with the sole purpose of getting the platform moving. That vision seems to have gone, but it's probably too late now anyway.

This forum was an excellent lesson for Microsoft to follow the Google/Android model instead of Apple/iPhone.
Unfortunately for us, MS decided to follow the Apple/iPhone model, at least for their phone line of business..
I do believe though that the driving force of XDA is such that it could force MS into creating a WM/PocketPC series of devices based on WM6.5.x following the Google/Android model.
MS fears that if they do that, they will cannibalize WP7 sales, as everybody would love it:
- OEMs would not have to dump their development investments
- DEVELOPERS would have the choice to continue to use their libraries or use Silverlight,
- END USERS would continue to use their purchased software,
- even MS itself would love strong demand for devices like HD2 which would in turn bring strong license revenues.
Boiling everything down into one question to MS:
- Since, all that most people need is a phone with a notification system and apps marketplace, why couldn't you put this into any WM phone? Cheap, effective, and guaranteed to increase OS sales.
Answer: Well we did this... (Marketplace, Office 2010 etc.)
- Too late, you first killed the product and now you are trying to save it!
IT IS THE ERA THAT HAVE CHANGED, NOT THE TECHNOLOGY. I believe that WP7 would simply be the Windows Vista... WP7.1 (with WM6.5 app legacy support and multitasking) will be the Windows 7 of MS mobile phones.
In any case, if I was MS, I would have never introduced WP7 in the first place until I had it ready as my market expects it to be... How could they fall into the Osborne Effect? Did they expect that this wouldn't happen with MS? Well it did...
Dimitris

I think Microsoft was on a good way with WM6.5.x. It got finger friendly, the user interface got more usable and consistent.
The only thing MS didn't understand for years is that one very elementary thing is missing for Windows Mobile.
A FREE development platform with a STYLEGUIDE and a nice set of STANDARD GUI Controls which look good, are finger friendly and easy to use. Go to the iPhone Development Homepage and you will see what I mean.
Even with WM6.5.x they didn't learn this. They made their GUI more consistent with nice looking skinnable buttons, new finger friendly controls, and a quite usable light weight today screen.
This is all good and was the right way. But why is there no documentation on how to implement titanium plugins? Why is there no documentation and API on how to use the new controls? Why don't old programs use the new skinnable look of the controls? Why is there no API for gestures in .NET CF? ...
The support for programmers is absolutely worse (you can say not existent) for WM6.5.x so nobody wants to develop for it anymore!
Best regards,
Markus

TeddY89h said:
I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .
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Tozzy2 said:
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
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Sure many applications are disappointing, but there are JUST SO MANY that you need not worry about the ones that are garbage.
Its the same with EVERY platform.
And being in the US #2 market share position while WM sits within the #4 "other" position, you can be assured that Android already has FAR FAR FAR more software developers than WM will *EVER* see again.

corwin42 said:
I think Microsoft was on a good way with WM6.5.x. It got finger friendly, the user interface got more usable and consistent.
They made their GUI more consistent with nice looking skinnable buttons, new finger friendly controls, and a quite usable light weight today screen.
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that's HTC's GUI covering the ugly, ugly, WM. M$ has no merit in this!
WP7 is going to be born dead. too little, too late!! what could WP7 bring new now? hubs? they took the wrong turn following\copying the iPhone model.
i am on my way to android!

I think he's refering to WM itself. Manilla is everything but lite! In all latest devices HTC has been draining phone resources left and right for the sake of their trademark GUI.
The notion most users have of Android is also basically the HTC GUI (the Android basic GUI is also not that great).
I also think WM is on the brink of death but the fact is Android is not the answer. AFAIK the apps developed don't have capped access to the machine resources so we can forget about apps that really require everything the machine can give (such a good universal media player).

I writing an app now for Windows Mobile and I'm writing it for Windows Mobile as its the only platform that it can be written on as it makes use of a number of technologies and features that the other phones lack (I will admit Android is closest and hence a prime interest of mine for future projects). Windows Phone is a step backward technologically for sure, but the success of the iPhone proves that technology has little to do with market success.
I don't think the problem is technology, I think the problem is managing people's expectations and battery life. For example everyone wants GPS, Wifi and cellular data etc with apps running in the background using them all, but that is a battery killer and hence a phone killer. Apple's solution was to limit via the OS what could be running at any one time and hence while Microsoft might claim it was crappy apps that were causing problems (and there is some truth to that, but crappy coders are pretty much a universal problem on any platform and again if I limit what an application platform can do I also limit the damage crappy coders can do), the real problem was battery life and I think the Android is going to find the same problem. So in reality limiting the OS is really about limiting users and helping to manage their expectations and if that can be done, then you can be successful like Apple and its iPhone who lowered user expectations technically and then achieved in filling those lowered expectations. They are continuing this success by raising technical expectations as technology allows them. For example video conferencing in their next iPhone as innovation, your kidding even my old HTC Universal had a forward facing camera for video conferencing years ago but network speeds tended to leave the user disappointed, but now cellular speeds might be up to snuff and Apple will be successful with this (battery life should be interesting of course).
So I don't think technology is the key in this market, I think its finding the balance between what is technically possible and user expectations, and so you might have to drop the technical level of the product down and then raise it as technology makes it possible which sounds exactly like what Microsoft is doing with the Windows Phone.

Marketing and design was the key to Apple's success.
For years Apple held their ground and finally had a beak with the iPod. It was small, had a huge memory and was good looking. All of a sudden Apple was cool again. Over the years (and hardware revisions) the iPod became a trend, an icon and the Apple brand was automatically associated with the concept of quality by the average Joe. At this point they barely needed to market their products or be innovative anymore they just release stuff that already exists in a prettier package but otherwise inferior (iPad anyone?)
Apple gained the smartphone marked based on the cool factor, it's icon status and good looks. The iPhone had a cool looking hardware and an appealing and easy to use OS. It's however an overpriced piece of hardware with an inferior OS but what can we do if people get stupid when they see shiny objects? The flock of users, hardware standardization and centralized online market attracted developers and now the iPhone has a huge amount of programs available (sure most suck but they also have some handy stuff and lots if games).
The Windows Mobile seems to have emerged originally as an OS for a tiny computer... Not a phone on steroids. Microsoft would always have a market just as long as they released a solid platform and offered what the others didn't... Microsoft hasn't been cool for a long time (it's not a crowd pleaser). It was easier to drown the opponent products when you could just through in pile of cash to regain terrain but this won't work anymore (Apple's rolling in it). If MS is going to release just another iPhone they their new OS is dead on the water.

[Q] Windows Phone 8 on WP7 devices?

I've looked, but i can't seem to find much on this. Does anyone know if Windows Phone 8 will be able to run on my 1st Gen Samsung Focus when it's released, or will it be too much for the older hardware to handle?

Its still too early to tell but it doesn't appear it will be updated officially
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=22592891
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium

windows 7..

It is way too early to tell.
Microsoft hasn't even announce Tango yet, let alone Apollo (Windows Phone 8).

I understood what I have is that if Tango will be available for first-generation devices and Apollo will not get to see it because multicore devices will run normal and the technology advances and we will remove our devices and buy a new one, asin is the technology

I remember reading somewhere that 1st Gen won't , but 2nd gen will. can't remember the source though. If I find it, I'll post a link.

drkfngthdragnlrd said:
I remember reading somewhere that 1st Gen won't , but 2nd gen will. can't remember the source though. If I find it, I'll post a link.
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Oh sure, even low-range Tango devices, which is apparently 2nd<->3rd gen devices, will get Apollo, and mid-range 1st gen devices dont? Its been said, all current WP's WILL GET Apollo, only with a few missing features due to hardware limitations. Its like those HTC devices, 1st gens don't have extra features like STK and Camera Mode, whereas 2nd gens have these nifty features.

Let me rub my crystal ball.... No answer
To the OP, you need to wait till there is More info, When they are starting beta testing, then I am sure by then everyone on XDA will know.
I'm starting to hate these posts. Like anyone here can tell the future...
I guess it could be worse, I could have a Android phone waiting for ICS from their carrier...

According to the following article the answer is NO for all (1st/2nd gen)
Sounds like current and upcoming Windows Phone 7.x devices won't receive an upgrade to Windows Phone 8 "Apollo."

All of you guys are just making assumptions and going off of rumors that some blogger has pulled out of their ass, lol. I personally feel it will be upgradable, especially considering Microsoft's history with being able to install an OS on significantly older hardware. Yes, we might be missing features, but, hello, the same thing happened on Mango. Afaik I don't have a gyroscope, so guess what, my phone doesn't utilize it. And that's my assumption on what's going to happen with Apollo. All devices will get it, it'll just have the tango-effect in the marketplace and with features.

I am not sure how many IT techs are aware of the new MS approach, but let me tell you this, as from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Sinofsky
Sinofsky's philosophy on Windows 7 was to not make any promises about the product or even discuss anything about the product until Microsoft was sure that it felt like a quality product. This was a radical departure from Microsoft's typical way of handling in-development versions of Windows, which was to publicly share all plans and details about it early in development cycle. Sinofsky also refrained from labeling versions of Windows "major" or "minor", and to instead just call them releases.
This is what they do with all MS products right now.

EgoMaximus said:
I am not sure how many IT techs are aware of the new MS approach, but let me tell you this, as from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Sinofsky
Sinofsky's philosophy on Windows 7 was to not make any promises about the product or even discuss anything about the product until Microsoft was sure that it felt like a quality product. This was a radical departure from Microsoft's typical way of handling in-development versions of Windows, which was to publicly share all plans and details about it early in development cycle. Sinofsky also refrained from labeling versions of Windows "major" or "minor", and to instead just call them releases.
This is what they do with all MS products right now.
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From talks with a few Microsoft employees, I can tell you that are hard feelings in Redmond about Mango.
Apparently, Mango was announced way too early. As a result, competitors were able to copy features and Windows Phone Mango weren't impressive compare to the competitors.
In addition, Microsoft is furious about Pocketnow's Apollo leak. In fact, furious is an understatement.

illegaloperation said:
From talks with a few Microsoft employees, I can tell you that are hard feelings in Redmond about Mango.
Apparently, Mango was announced way too early. As a result, competitors were able to copy features and Windows Phone Mango weren't impressive compare to the competitors.
In addition, Microsoft is furious about Pocketnow's Apollo leak. In fact, furious is an understatement.
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Why was it shown to so many Nokia employees anyway? I understand if it was CEO only and few execs but now?
Are they trying to do something about it?

If not, I hope someone can release a port to single core phones

illegaloperation said:
From talks with a few Microsoft employees, I can tell you that are hard feelings in Redmond about Mango.
Apparently, Mango was announced way too early. As a result, competitors were able to copy features and Windows Phone Mango weren't impressive compare to the competitors.
In addition, Microsoft is furious about Pocketnow's Apollo leak. In fact, furious is an understatement.
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I'm not sure what their competitors apparently copied? Mango brought the wp platform to 2009 standards.

sure haven't said:
I'm not sure what their competitors apparently copied? Mango brought the wp platform to 2009 standards.
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http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-flattered-with-apples-ios-5-windows-phone-features/

I was originally told that ALL WP devices will get at least 2 major revision updates in their life cycle. Read that carefully. 2 Major revision -- Mango is a major revision. Tango is a minor update. So I'd assume Apollo will be the next major one. So ALL phones currently in the market will get Apollo.
Which is a big issue for OEMs since OEMs would rather sell you a new phone (see Android). WP also does not need multicore devices to function well anyways... so... I think we'll see Apollo on all of our devices.

seraph1024 said:
I was originally told that ALL WP devices will get at least 2 major revision updates in their life cycle. Read that carefully. 2 Major revision -- Mango is a major revision. Tango is a minor update. So I'd assume Apollo will be the next major one. So ALL phones currently in the market will get Apollo.
Which is a big issue for OEMs since OEMs would rather sell you a new phone (see Android). WP also does not need multicore devices to function well anyways... so... I think we'll see Apollo on all of our devices.
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We were also once told that wireless carriers wouldn't be able to permanently hold back multiple updates; yet, AT&T continues to delay (or block, as they won't confirm either) 7740 and 8107 for all of their devices. I wouldn't believe anything you hear today, regardless of the source. When summer or fall comes around and Apollo is in the near future, I'd say that's when we'll begin to find out what their plans are. Though with wireless carriers taking more control of the update ecosystem (through the increasing lack of update transparency this year) I wouldn't be surprised if there is no official announcement from Microsoft at all. If Microsoft makes an Apollo build available for older generation devices I'd expect most carriers to sit on it for months, that is, if they ever release it.

Who knows, MSFT will be surprising us all in a good way. I hope they know what we talk about in forums coz they READ what we write...I bet you there's a MSFT guy here among us and reading our posts....and I'm telling that guy right now that, MSFT will be DAMNED to not upgrade 1st gen phones....NO DOUBT!!!

Kenzibit said:
Who knows, MSFT will be surprising us all in a good way. I hope they know what we talk about in forums coz they READ what we write...I bet you there's a MSFT guy here among us and reading our posts....and I'm telling that guy right now that, MSFT will be DAMNED to not upgrade 1st gen phones....NO DOUBT!!!
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LOL, people already whine about no WP8 update, yet they have no idea what it will bring to the table, all they want is a number. All I care about is bit locker encryption and quad core CPU, there is no way WP8 update will add this on my device.
- I want WP8 update
- Why?
- Cause it says 8
- I want Apple, Apple is the best
- Why?
- Cause it's Apple
Well, hopefully, MS will release a registry patch, which changes version number from 7 to 8, so everyone is happy.

News (not good) on MS Office for Android

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-office-coming-to-android-and-apple-devices-in-early-2013-7000005563/

dgjl said:
http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-office-coming-to-android-and-apple-devices-in-early-2013-7000005563/
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Not sure what part you think is bad news... we already knew it wouldn't be out until next year. It will just be sometime after march. I expected maybe waiting until Q3 of next year... ya know, to give MS an edge on it's new tabs

jordanmw said:
Not sure what part you think is bad news... we already knew it wouldn't be out until next year. It will just be sometime after march. I expected maybe waiting until Q3 of next year... ya know, to give MS an edge on it's new tabs
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I think if you read it carefully, MS is not going to share MS office to third party like Android or IOS, it only makes available to Windows OS for mobile.

buhohitr said:
I think if you read it carefully, MS is not going to share MS office to third party like Android or IOS, it only makes available to Windows OS for mobile.
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I think if you read it carefully, it says exactly the opposite of that. The same as every other story on the topic for months. The only news is the possible delay.
Now, according to the Czech tech news site, IHNED, Microsoft product manager Petr Bobek has said that Microsoft is planning to release native iOS and Android versions of Office 2013 in the first quarter of 2013
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Officially, the only thing Microsoft had to say at first was that "As we shared previously, Office Mobile will work across Windows Phones, Android phones and iOS, and we have nothing additional to announce today about retail availability of the new Office."
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No matter when Microsoft delivers the Android and iOS goods, Microsoft's support of any version of Office on a non-Windows smartphone or tablet strikes me as an odd move. In a shareholder letter, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said that Microsoft is shifting its model to focus on devices and services. This is a radical and dangerous shift for a company that's always made it money from software licensing. And, now, instead of using Office as a crowbar to pry users from iPads and Android tablets to its Surface tablets, Microsoft is going to offer Office 2013 on its device rivals? Odd. Very odd.
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I wish they'd done it in time to give us office 2010. I fear mobile 2013 won't play nice with desktop 2010, and I suspect I won't want desktop 2013.
Oh well, what's another new year without getting screwed by MS?

I can wait!
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app

fortunz said:
I think if you read it carefully, it says exactly the opposite of that. The same as every other story on the topic for months. The only news is the possible delay.
I wish they'd done it in time to give us office 2010. I fear mobile 2013 won't play nice with desktop 2010, and I suspect I won't want desktop 2013.
Oh well, what's another new year without getting screwed by MS?
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Oh well, I think I would fail if I'm an English teacher :crying:

dgjl said:
http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-office-coming-to-android-and-apple-devices-in-early-2013-7000005563/
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Any Microsoft app on an Android tablet will just hog up all the resources and drag the heck out of it. Why does anyone even need another document app anyway? Excel and Word. Plenty of programs can deal.

Kingsoft Office is pretty much MS Office by another company, anyway.
fortunz said:
I wish they'd done it in time to give us office 2010. I fear mobile 2013 won't play nice with desktop 2010, and I suspect I won't want desktop 2013.
Oh well, what's another new year without getting screwed by MS?
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I'm already sure I don't want desktop 2013. It'll probably be designed for W8, on which you can't play any pre-8 games. Since I won't be taking W8 because of that, 2013 will be useless.
And knowing Micro$oft, they'll make another new 'standard' extension that only works in their newest product. (.docx is still driving me insane...) Combine that with the majority of people who are too stupid to select .doc in the save menu and you're pretty much forced to buy the new M$ Office, because loading it in ex. Openoffice doesn't work because the layout is scrambled.

jordanmw said:
Not sure what part you think is bad news... we already knew it wouldn't be out until next year. It will just be sometime after march. I expected maybe waiting until Q3 of next year... ya know, to give MS an edge on it's new tabs
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What I thought was bad was 1) the delay; 2) the strong complications from the article that it's not sound business for MS to release an app that would kill at a stroke the reason for most people and businesses to buy a Surface - at least not until that product had established itself or failed.

dgjl said:
What I thought was bad was 1) the delay; 2) the strong complications from the article that it's not sound business for MS to release an app that would kill at a stroke the reason for most people and businesses to buy a Surface - at least not until that product had established itself or failed.
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I wouldn't take that last part too seriously. MS has already lost a particular percentage of the tablet market and they know it. Over years of not acknowledging that, AND of even viewing their own mobile unit as competition for their desktop unit (which is the reason that, for example, MS OneNote on winmo 6.x SUCKED so epically -- it was intentional), they've lost serious mobile branding ground that could have been theirs if MS Office was ubiquitous. Indeed, if MS Office had been everywhere while their mobile division burned, their climb back to mobile relevance wouldn't be as steep.
People would still associate them with quality at that level and they could build on that. Instead, recent customers of MS Mobile, like myself, view them as hacks and wouldn't buy their crap now even if it were undeniably the best stuff ever because of the long-standing negative association. The cost of not having MS Office Mobile on major platforms is not just lost license fees, it's billions in brand equity that they're having to spend in ad dollars without much to show for it so far.
The guy at zdnet is still stuck in the paradigm that got MS mobile where it is now.