Hi,
my systemprogram in the Pocket Controller-Pro shows me very much unused "virtual memory". (See appendix) How does something likes this? Allegedly knows Windows Mobile but no virtual memory. For what is this memory useful?
And there is possibly an option to fallow RAM memory allocated? No matter how much program memory, Windows Mobile uses this virtual memory not, it will remain permanently 28MB free.
Und nochmal auf Deutsch.
Mein Systemprogramm in Pocket Controller-Pro zeigt mir immer sehr viel ungenutzten "virtuellen Speicher" an. (siehe Anhang) Wie kommt denn sowas? Angeblich kennt WindowsMobile doch keinen virtuellen Speicher. Zu was ist dieser Speicher nütze?
Und gibt es evtl. eine Möglichkeit diesen brachliegenden Speicher dem RAM zuzuordnen? Egal wieviel Programmspeicher belegt ist, WindowsMobile nutzt diesen virtuellen Speicher einfach nicht, es bleiben ständig 28MB frei.
Gruss
heross
heross said:
Hi,
my systemprogram in the Pocket Controller-Pro shows me very much unused "virtual memory". (See appendix) How does something likes this? Allegedly knows Windows Mobile but no virtual memory. For what is this memory useful?
And there is possibly an option to fallow RAM memory allocated? No matter how much program memory, Windows Mobile uses this virtual memory not, it will remain permanently 28MB free.
Und nochmal auf Deutsch.
Mein Systemprogramm in Pocket Controller-Pro zeigt mir immer sehr viel ungenutzten "virtuellen Speicher" an. (siehe Anhang) Wie kommt denn sowas? Angeblich kennt WindowsMobile doch keinen virtuellen Speicher. Zu was ist dieser Speicher nütze?
Und gibt es evtl. eine Möglichkeit diesen brachliegenden Speicher dem RAM zuzuordnen? Egal wieviel Programmspeicher belegt ist, WindowsMobile nutzt diesen virtuellen Speicher einfach nicht, es bleiben ständig 28MB frei.
Gruss
heross
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what is the model of your phone??
it seems to have 128 mb total memory of which 64 is ram and 64 is rom
i would assume that virual memory is what we refer to as ram
the first one being the size of the rom image and the last one being the storage memory
what is the model of your phone??
it seems to have 128 mb total memory of which 64 is ram and 64 is rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
the model is XDA Orbit with 128MB Rom and 64MB RAM.
i would assume that virual memory is what we refer to as ram
the first one being the size of the rom image and the last one being the storage memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the ram can not be the virtual memory. Virtual + Physical RAM more than 64MB. And the first one is the RAM. Show appendix.
heross said:
Hello,
the model is XDA Orbit with 128MB Rom and 64MB RAM.
No, the ram can not be the virtual memory. Virtual + Physical RAM more than 64MB. And the first one is the RAM. Show appendix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
let me rephrase what i said
virtual = actual ram available after the os has loaded to run the progs.
physical = total ram available (before os has loaded)
object= storage
Virtual memory doesn't really exist (hence its virtual).
It is a trick the system plays on programs to make each one think it has all the memory to it self.
This has to do with how programs treat memory addresses.
Since this memory does not really exist you can not utilize it for anything.
Here is a more detailed explanation.
Hi,
The virtual memory is 'virtual' - that is, although it is not physical memory, it is still memory that's available for the system to use for intermediate processing.
Sometimes, we find that the available RAM in our PC or laptop is simply not enough, when needed for intermediate processing. As a result of this, the system begins to run very slowly, sometimes so slow that it almost grinds to a halt. This is due to insufficient RAM.
I'm sure that most of you here have experienced this type of problem with your PC/laptop at home or work. The machine runs so slowly that you just sit there twiddling your thumbs, waiting for it to boot up, log you on, start that program that you want to use, or connect you to the internetwork, and so on and so forth.
The solution is either to:
1. increase the physical memory - i.e. buy higher-capacity memory sticks and insert them into the memory slots of your computer or laptop, OR
2. increase the size of the virtual memory.
With the second solution, a part of the hard drive is reserved for intermediate processing, as though it were an actual physical RAM, which it isn't. This then becomes a virtual memory, and is no longer available as hard drive storage space. The system would use it as part of its RAM, as and when it needs it.
This is especially significant when the system is processing memory-intensive programs such as Quake and similar. The processing is transferred from physical RAM, to the virtual memory. It gets processed in virtual memory, and then the result is sent back to RAM. It's so much quicker 'cos the available RAM is now free to process other less memory-hungry programs.
Thus, with virtual memory, programs run much faster because there is no more limitation on the size of the available physical RAM. You can, of course, increase the size of the virtual memory as much as you like but with some limitations.
Now, if only there is a way to get virtual memory in our devices, that would be great 'cos I find that a lot of action programs, such as car racing videos, tend to run very slowly in my device. With a virtual memory, such programs would run much faster.
Does anybody know how to set the virtual memory in our devices?
kiwi992.
Sorry kiwi, but you got it wrong.
You are talking about page file and that is wat is slowing down your computer when you run low on real RAM.
RAM is very fast. Writing to hard disk is very slow (compared to writing to RAM). When the system runs out of RAM it dumps parts of it to disk, but not to process them there. It dumps the parts it 'thinks' aren't going to be used soon and the whole thing is called a 'page file'.
If your computer were doing processing on HD instead of RAM that would take forever.
Virtual memory, and we do have it in our devices, is just a way of representing memory addresses. For instance it means that every program 'thinks' it is loaded at address 0.
Hi,
Fair comment but, hmm......, I beg to differ. Maybe we should just leave it at that, in the interest of harmony.
kiwi992.
kiwi992 said:
Hi,
The virtual memory is 'virtual' - that is, although it is not physical memory, it is still memory that's available for the system to use for intermediate processing.
Sometimes, we find that the available RAM in our PC or laptop is simply not enough, when needed for intermediate processing. As a result of this, the system begins to run very slowly, sometimes so slow that it almost grinds to a halt. This is due to insufficient RAM.
I'm sure that most of you here have experienced this type of problem with your PC/laptop at home or work. The machine runs so slowly that you just sit there twiddling your thumbs, waiting for it to boot up, log you on, start that program that you want to use, or connect you to the internetwork, and so on and so forth.
The solution is either to:
1. increase the physical memory - i.e. buy higher-capacity memory sticks and insert them into the memory slots of your computer or laptop, OR
2. increase the size of the virtual memory.
With the second solution, a part of the hard drive is reserved for intermediate processing, as though it were an actual physical RAM, which it isn't. This then becomes a virtual memory, and is no longer available as hard drive storage space. The system would use it as part of its RAM, as and when it needs it.
This is especially significant when the system is processing memory-intensive programs such as Quake and similar. The processing is transferred from physical RAM, to the virtual memory. It gets processed in virtual memory, and then the result is sent back to RAM. It's so much quicker 'cos the available RAM is now free to process other less memory-hungry programs.
Thus, with virtual memory, programs run much faster because there is no more limitation on the size of the available physical RAM. You can, of course, increase the size of the virtual memory as much as you like but with some limitations.
Now, if only there is a way to get virtual memory in our devices, that would be great 'cos I find that a lot of action programs, such as car racing videos, tend to run very slowly in my device. With a virtual memory, such programs would run much faster.
Does anybody know how to set the virtual memory in our devices?
kiwi992.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
impossible. see http://www.aximsite.com/boards/x50-x51-forums/218184-virtual-memory.html and http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1277861 ; look mostly for my remarks
kiwi992 said:
Hi,
Fair comment but, hmm......, I beg to differ. Maybe we should just leave it at that, in the interest of harmony.
kiwi992.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS does NOT support Virtual memory. Therefore, it's impossible to use it. You can emulate it but it will, in general, result in very bad results (see my linked comments & explanations).
Menneisyys,
Thanks for your comments and the links.
kiwi992.
The virtual memory is perhaps the page pool size on the device.
personaly i see pagepool more like
System Cache in normal windows
as in mem used as cache for io as in access to storage
Related
Hi there
We develop an database application von PocketPC's especially PDA.
On the MDA Compact with Windows Mobile 5 there is only about 60 MB free space
Our Database ist self has a size of 30 - 40 MB the running abblication takes 15 MB
So if the user also has some contacts in outlook etc. we often get the "Low memory screen"
So we thought about putting the application on an Memory card.
But what about perfomance and liftime of the card if we write often to the card back?
Which card can you tell me for fast access time and / or long life time?
The cost are not so important because our product ist for companies and not private persons
-DevHealth.exe
To get a summary of where the RAM is going on the device, you can use the comprehensive DevHealth application to create a snapshot of the memory usage on the device at any point. DevHealth.exe is available in the Windows Mobile 6 Adaptation Kit and you can run it several ways.
To run DevHealth using SD/MMC card (recommended method)
Create a folder named "2577" on an SD/MMC card.
Rename DevHealth.exe to autorun.exe and copy it to "2577" folder.
Insert the SD/MMC card into the device. This automatically runs autorun.exe from the card, which is really the DevHealth application.
To run DevHealth using ActiveSync or another method
Copy DevHealth.exe to \Windows\Start Menu folder on the device.
Run DevHealth from Start menu.
The device displays a wait cursor while DevHealth.exe is running. At the end of the process, you will have a log file named mem_N.txt, where N is the run number starting with 1 and the highest N is the latest run. The log is saved on the SD\MMC card if it is present, otherwise the log file is saved in the "\" directory of the device.
Now guys, with this tool, we can view the available Page Pool for RAM. On my vox it is 6 MB. How to change this value to say 10 MB ??
Any ideas??
Regards,
Chandan
page pool
I'd like to know how to change the pagepool, too.
On my wizard the larger pagepool made my device far more responsive.
pagepool of 10MB will not make any changes in performance.
it will just waste your ROM space.
6 MB is more than enough for Vox. Many people have found 4MB to be giving similar performance. So 6MB is a safe bet.
If you do increase it to 10MB you will be wasting 4MB of ROM.
PagePool uses RAM space and not ROM space. Yes, 6 MB is the sweet spot as suggested by Microsoft.
pagepool
So can i conclude from your comments that this has been tried?
Again, on my wizard i used a 16(!) mb pagepool with a very minimal rom. This gave me a far more responsive device. In fact, my wizard is a lot more responsive then most "high performance" wm devices such as kaisers.
Since the vox has a similar (or actually the same) processor, i was expecting similar performance.
If there was a tool to change the pagepool, as there is for the wizard, i'd be happy to find out for myself and of course post the results to this forum.
Thank you for your answers so far.
/proc/meminfo on my G1 shows total memory as 99040KB. I thought the G1 had 192MB of SDRAM. Clearly I must be missing something here. The free command shows the same as well.
Good question... with that said where is our ROM at too? I don't see 256MB of ROM... by my calculations I am missing about 50MB but I could be wrong.
neoobs said:
Good question... with that said where is our ROM at too? I don't see 256MB of ROM... by my calculations I am missing about 50MB but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that they advertised it has having 256MB of ROM seems strange to me, since the internal memory that comes closest to that (268,400KB - when adding up the total sizes of the /dev /sqlite_stmt_journals /system /data and /cache partitions - is actually 262MB) is definitely not Read-Only-Memory. And it wouldn't appear to be 256MB, unless that /sqlite_stmt_journals is a subdivision of another partition like the /system/modules and /system/xbin (which I obviously left out of my calculations), that would bring it down to 264,304KB or 258MB - pretty close.
But that is still not ROM, so I don't know what they were getting at with that.. Unless I missed a memo and ROM doesn't just mean Read-Only-Memory any more...
I was confused about the use of "ROM" too. Apparently, it's just to differentiate between memory and storage. The /data partition is definitely not read-only.
techvd said:
/proc/meminfo on my G1 shows total memory as 99040KB. I thought the G1 had 192MB of SDRAM. Clearly I must be missing something here. The free command shows the same as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that the rest of the memory is reserver for the framebuffer and video textures etc.
The question was already answered by Hackborn on the mailing list.
https://groups.google.com/group/android-platform/browse_thread/thread/adb2fa9946275b73
i dont think that thread responds to "where the hell are the 100 MB remaining"
i dont believe "radio firmware" + "graphic framebuffers for shadows" + "etc" is eating 100 Mb of memory. I dont believe and in that forum they dont explain the numbers.
windows XP, with 800x600 x 65.000 colors, is able to run with just 64 Mb of ram, and only 200 Mhz. That would give as 120 Mb Free. to run games like diablo 2, baldur's gate (i played baldur's gate with my pentium mmx 200mhz)
This phone is superior than my Pentium 200mhz who had 64 ram. why this phone cant do the same with 3x times memory x 3x times cpu?
Why windows Xp (a real operating system) is running with a lot less resources than android ??? where is our 192 Mb of ram??
a 200mhz Pentium >>>> 384 mhz ARM processor
*) first of all, a pentium is faster than the arm we use, especially for things like gaming.
a PC is optimized for performance, an embedded architecture is optimzied for efficiency (especially regarding power consumption)
*) your PC has a graphiccard that has its own memory.
*) android = linux = real OS.
why do these rants always pop up whenever embedded systems are discussed.
it was the same with the gp2x / pandora scene, the same in every windows mobile forum, etc.
people, get a clue. attend a course about systems architecture or read a book or two...
Take a look here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=482228
Same discussion
you saw i called windows xp a real os and you started freaking out, lol !
*) cpu is 528 Mhz clocked down to 384 (google says: to conserve battery!!!!) , so they stole us speed and memory. Performance vs eficiency? i dont buy it. Its all the same running the same kernel.
*) my graphic card sucked balls, old ati radeon 128 with 16mb ram. So, 16 mb doesnt mean a **** in the middle of the 100MB we are missing.
*) android = java = resources devour, when i discover android = java i was disapointed, the real operating system running on my phone is the good kernel+debian armel which i had to host in memory card instead of internal memory because lately google is acting like microsoft. and im starting to think android will be as ****y as windows is.
yea i readed a pair of books and i know how to count, where is my Mhz and where is my Memory?
greetings
hey fellow XDA WM devs and users and forum people,
Greetings,
so I am asking whether not WM devices are capped on using 25+mb of RAM for each app...
If so, can I assume that this is the reason why we cannot have stunning graphic games just like the other compatitor platforms (iOS, Android) ??
also, a reply tweet from one of my favourite game dev:
http://twitter.com/Isotope244/status/16152606483
any comments or answers are greatly apprerciated
Kind Regards
Processes in winmo can only access 32 mb of virtual memory (with a max of 32 processes). There's normally at least 7 mb or so of memory allocated to dll's for all processes (sometimes more). 32-7=25 mb. I think that's what the developer is talking about. This is changing with WP7, where all process will have full access to 1 GB of virtual memory (limited by the amount of availabe RAM).
Farmer Ted said:
Processes in winmo can only access 32 mb of virtual memory (with a max of 32 processes). There's normally at least 7 mb or so of memory allocated to dll's for all processes (sometimes more). 32-7=25 mb. I think that's what the developer is talking about. This is changing with WP7, where all process will have full access to 1 GB of virtual memory (limited by the amount of availabe RAM).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks farmer tad for your reply....
now its all clear to me
thanks.
(oh lol... then what's thhe point of phones having all those extra RAM while the OS cannot use them, at all?)
Hello. If this thread has a low relevance, please tell me the reason.
I would really like to know, how to prevent any program to write some data on a Flash Drive.
I'd like to know this, because i have some things on my USB-Stick, which Antivirus-Programs detect as a virus. If they quarantine the programs at home, you can easily restore them.
But i will use this USB-Stick with many useful programs (and Hirens BootCD ). There are some tools there.
One of them is a Batch-File, which does take away the power from LogoDIDACT.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/help/logodidact-aka-ldc-prevent-remote-t2990164
It covers:
Shutdown Control
Driver Control
Internet Control
Screen Control
Remote Control
View Screen of User
Get Admin Rights
But some of the other programs will be detected by the eScan, which is installed on the Computers at School. EScan will Quarantine Everything. But to recover the files, a password is required, which only teachers etc. know. And they are not going to help me to recover the files, because they get very skeptical to me.
So i will lose this files for ever.
I struggled with ShareCash to get one of those files.
>>> http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/off-topic/truly-hate-harecash-aka-cah-surveys-to-t2990135
So is there any way to make the USB-Stick completely write-protected? (Read-Only File Attributes will not protect the files from Antivirus Systems. And IsoBuster will only recover 95 % of them, not 100. Because of the Writing Access. ) Like a Flash Drive with used-up write cycles. You will be able to read the files, but used-up write cycles will cause this: http://www.cnet.com/forums/post/0739af7b-317e-4f78-9bb2-59a3a93640c3/
Any useful help is highly appreciated.
If you also have problems or storys to tell, which are similar to this one, feel free posting here!
Hannah Stern said:
Hello. If this thread has a low relevance, please tell me the reason.
I would really like to know, how to prevent any program to write some data on a Flash Drive.
I'd like to know this, because i have some things on my USB-Stick, which Antivirus-Programs detect as a virus. If they quarantine the programs at home, you can easily restore them.
But i will use this USB-Stick with many useful programs (and Hirens BootCD ). There are some tools there.
One of them is a Batch-File, which does take away the power from LogoDIDACT.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/help/logodidact-aka-ldc-prevent-remote-t2990164
It covers:
Shutdown Control
Driver Control
Internet Control
Screen Control
Remote Control
View Screen of User
Get Admin Rights
But some of the other programs will be detected by the eScan, which is installed on the Computers at School. EScan will Quarantine Everything. But to recover the files, a password is required, which only teachers etc. know. And they are not going to help me to recover the files, because they get very skeptical to me.
So i will lose this files for ever.
I struggled with ShareCash to get one of those files.
>>> http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/off-topic/truly-hate-harecash-aka-cah-surveys-to-t2990135
So is there any way to make the USB-Stick completely write-protected? (Read-Only File Attributes will not protect the files from Antivirus Systems. And IsoBuster will only recover 95 % of them, not 100. Because of the Writing Access. ) Like a Flash Drive with used-up write cycles. You will be able to read the files, but used-up write cycles will cause this: http://www.cnet.com/forums/post/0739af7b-317e-4f78-9bb2-59a3a93640c3/
Any useful help is highly appreciated.
If you also have problems or storys to tell, which are similar to this one, feel free posting here!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/format-write-protected-usb-flash-drive/
Also if this doesn't solve your problem try googling read only USB drive
janekmuric said:
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/format-write-protected-usb-flash-drive/
Also if this doesn't solve your problem try googling read only USB drive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, Thank you.
But i would like to write-protect a USB-Stick. Not to format it.
Hannah Stern said:
OK, Thank you.
But i would like to write-protect a USB-Stick. Not to format it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could open it up, then google the chipset on the little PCB.
Find the datasheet.
Then read through the pinout section.
There should be something like a "rw_protect" , "wp" or "w/p" pin.
Then try to find out if it is enabled by a high or a low signal (~positive or negative).
If it needs a high signal, try to connect the pin to a positive sourve or a vcc pin on the chip.
If it needs a low signal, just connect it to ground or a gnd pin on the chip.
For example: ST72681 USB - Controller Datasheet
- On page 5 you find the pinout, and a pin called "READ ONLY"
- On page 16 you find an explenation on how to use it.
UAdeveloper said:
You could open it up, then google the chipset on the little PCB.
Find the datasheet.
Then read through the pinout section.
There should be something like a "rw_protect" , "wp" or "w/p" pin.
Then try to find out if it is enabled by a high or a low signal (~positive or negative).
If it needs a high signal, try to connect the pin to a positive sourve or a vcc pin on the chip.
If it needs a low signal, just connect it to ground or a gnd pin on the chip.
For example: ST72681 USB - Controller Datasheet
- On page 5 you find the pinout, and a pin called "READ ONLY"
- On page 16 you find an explenation on how to use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vielen Dank für die Antwort!
Ich werde es erstmal an einen anderen USB-Sticker für 3€ (2 GB) ausprobieren.
Ich möchte nicht meinen 64GB-USB-3.0 + USB-OTG-(MicroUSB 3.0) Stick schrotten
Da sind wertvolle Daten drauf. Der hat auch €28 gekostet, ist aber über 170 MB/s über USB 3.0 Schnell.
Von den 64 GB sind 12 GB belegt.
☺☺
Hannah Stern said:
Vielen Dank für die Antwort!
Ich werde es erstmal an einen anderen USB-Sticker für 3€ (2 GB) ausprobieren.
Ich möchte nicht meinen 64GB-USB-3.0 + USB-OTG-(MicroUSB 3.0) Stick schrotten
Da sind wertvolle Daten drauf. Der hat auch €28 gekostet, ist aber über 170 MB/s über USB 3.0 Schnell.
Von den 64 GB sind 12 GB belegt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ja dann ...
Du kannst es ja mal mit einem billigeren ausprobieren.
Übung macht den meister.