Related
Much as I like my Touch Cruise, I think I'm already lusting after my next device. I was looking through Qualcomm stuff to try and find the difference between the MSM7200 (the one in the Touch Cruise) and the MSM7200A. I didn't find the answer to my question but I did stumble across a press release from November last year about the latest chips in the MSM7xxx family (http://www.qualcomm.com/press/releases/2007/071113_Qualcomm_Introduces_Single_Chip.html).
As someone that is very concerned with battery life this is the bit that caught my eye: "Additionally, the three chipsets feature new power-saving innovations to deliver more than 80 hours of music playback, a full day of talk time, and more than a month of standby time."
Wow, those statistics represent a genuine step-change in battery life assuming they're not being stupid and quoting those numbers on the basis of using a car battery to power it! If HTC select one of these chips for their next device in 12 months or so, or a competitor's design with comparable characteristics, then I don't think that I'll be able to resist an upgrade.
- Julian
MSM7200A and MSM7200?
What is the difference? Is the A version the ATI enabled one? Could this be the difference? Could it be that there are actually two versions.
session said:
Is the A version the ATI enabled one?
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Click to collapse
As can bee seen from Brew 2007 PDF presentation both should have ATI Imageon2D/3D chip.
imho the A version will be just a lower voltage binned version of the normal chipset.
Just look at cpus, intel desktop and mobile processors are alle the same, the only difference is, that the mobile versions work with lower voltage.
Hornet331 said:
imho the A version will be just a lower voltage binned version of the normal chipset.
Just look at cpus, intel desktop and mobile processors are alle the same, the only difference is, that the mobile versions work with lower voltage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suspect, based on the Google hits I did find, that there's more to it than that. There were some hits from Linux hacker forums where people were trying to port stuff to the MSM7200 and they only had code for the 7200A which apparently wasn't compatible (which seems to imply that it's not a 100% identical architecture). Also, interestingly, I found a hit from someone trying to put Android onto an MSM7200 and again the same issue, the Google code was only for a 7200A.
- Julian
I think the 7200A is a direct result of the Broadcomm/Qualcomm lawsuit.
7200 = Qualcomm infringing on Broadcomm patents
7200A = Qualcomm's attempt to longer infringe on Broadcomm patents.
I could be wrong, but I know that the MSM7200 is being redesigned asap after the patent rulings came out in favor of Broadcomm.
njmarchetti said:
I think the 7200A is a direct result of the Broadcomm/Qualcomm lawsuit.
7200 = Qualcomm infringing on Broadcomm patents
7200A = Qualcomm's attempt to longer infringe on Broadcomm patents.
I could be wrong, but I know that the MSM7200 is being redesigned asap after the patent rulings came out in favor of Broadcomm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds like the most logical explanation. They don't want to lose the 7200 name (or version or whatever) and all the eventually, the community just makes of it what it wants - let's try to think normal, why would they use almost the same name with revolutionary power changes? Both are identical in functionality, but different in implementation or whatever - making sure not to cross the line again
SabbeRubbish said:
That sounds like the most logical explanation. They don't want to lose the 7200 name (or version or whatever) and all the eventually, the community just makes of it what it wants - let's try to think normal, why would they use almost the same name with revolutionary power changes? Both are identical in functionality, but different in implementation or whatever - making sure not to cross the line again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to be clear, my first post and the link therein (the one talking about the huge increases in battery life) has absolutely nothing to do with the MSM7200/MSM7200A although it does relate to the MSM7xxx family as a whole. The link I posted is to the successor, or even the successor to the successor, to the MSM7200/MSM7200A.
There are two issues in this thread, both interesting in my view, but they are not related: (i) What the very latest chips fairly recently announced in the MSM7xxx family will be capable of, and (ii) what the heck is the difference between the now rather old (in the fast moving world of mobile techology) MSM7200 and MSM7200A chips.
Re the second issue and the theory that the 7200A is the non-infringing version, I agree that appears plausible but I'm still not convinced. I just found this fairly random link (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0PIL/is_2007_Feb_20/ai_n18619481) of some random news site picking up a Qualcomm press release from Feb 2007. This press release is for the MSM7225 but what is interesting is that even a year ago it explicitly mentions the MSM7200A. Surely if the A version was a re-design because of the Broadcom issue then they wouldn't have been name-checking it in press releases a year ago?
- Julian
Maybe they hoped the MSM7200 would not be sued ? And they made a backup MSM7200A? I doubt it but hey, we might never find out, or the truth will come out one of these days
MSM7200 versus MSM7200a
The MSM7200a is the 65nm version of the MSM7200 (90nm). The big difference is a speed boost for the ARM11 processor from 400MHz to 528MHz. I assume that there should be some benefits to battery life as well...not sure about any other changes.
Slacker
Also the msm7200a should allow video output up to 800x480.
dara
Qualcomm's own press release of the MSM7500
The ATi Imageon is built into the Main CPU along with the ARM11. Not too clear about the difference between the msm7200 and the msm7500 though.
The theories I've heard are:
MSM7200 has 2 ARM9 cores and ATi's Imageon while the MSM7500 has an ARM11, ARM9, and ATi Imageon
and
MSM7200 is the GSM/HSDPA version of the MSM7500
http://www.ent.eetchina.com/PDF/2007FEB/DTCOL_2007FEB15_AVDE_RFR_AN_01.pdf?SOURCES=DOWNLOAD
Integrated 400 MHz ARM11™ applications
processor and 274 MHz ARM9™ microprocessor
deliver accelerated applications processing and
simultaneous modem processing; the dual-core
implementation provides hardware-based
security domains
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Click to collapse
My question about Qualcomm CPU:
Is in Polaris supported CPU scaling or is constant 400MHz?
Is there any software that show CPU speed on device with Qualcomm processor? I only find battery consumption with idle cpu status but this is not 100% answer about scaling.
Have a look at this video as found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1974776&postcount=1430
jyan_osu said:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/28/android-gets-handled-now-with-street-view/
About halfway through the video the person shows a demo of Quake.. listen to the chipset he mentions the phone has.. Than shake your fist at whoever won't let us have the driver...
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Click to collapse
I hate to quote my self but, i'll make an exception...
gnick666 said:
I know Android isn't very popular around here... but i found something interesting
http://www.helloandroid.com/node/22
Original Post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1961765&postcount=250
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is BASED on the Qualcomm chipsets...
lazik said:
My question about Qualcomm CPU:
Is in Polaris supported CPU scaling or is constant 400MHz?
Is there any software that show CPU speed on device with Qualcomm processor? I only find battery consumption with idle cpu status but this is not 100% answer about scaling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no app that can scale the dualcore CPU of the MSM 7x000 based devices, yet.
And i don't know if there is any intelligent scaleing function in it...
Is there a way to over clock the TC? I have had WM devices before and was able to over clock it with OMAP. Went to N95-3 for a wile (S60) and am now back to WM. Didn't know if this method still worked or if there was a new method.
Thanks
Anyone have an idea?
AFAIK there is no overclocking tool for the Qualcomm. Maybe that's because it's a dual core design. But I'm still hoping that I'm wrong.
TI Omap is also Dualcore. It's just because nobody has written a program to overclock so far.
I agree. It's just a new processor with different architecture and developers haven't made any overclocking tool for that yet. But... it's a matter of time.
If you are right, then it should really be only a matter of time. Due to the fact that HTC uses the Qualcomm for all their new products chances are high. Overclocking to 500MHz could resolve most performance issues. Maybe we should ask HTC for delivering an overclocking tool.
It's almost sure that in the near future we will have the tools to overclock easily our devices, while this processor (32bit Qualcomm MSM7200), is capable to run at much higher speed. For example future devices such as HTC Omni and Toshiba Portege G910 & G920 will run with this processor at 528MHz!!!
athanaso77 said:
It's almost sure that in the near future we will have the tools to overclock easily our devices, while this processor (32bit Qualcomm MSM7200), is capable to run at much higher speed. For example future devices such as HTC Omni and Toshiba Portege G910 & G920 will run with this processor at 528MHz!!!
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Click to collapse
Man that would be great!
"is capable to run at much higher speed. For example future devices such as HTC Omni and Toshiba Portege G910 & G920 will run with this processor at 528MHz!!! "
there seem to be a common misconception that the same family of cpus running on various Mhz's are under and overclocks that is sadly not the case not on pc's and not on pda's
Well I hope that even if this is not the 528MHz prosessor in the TC that it can still be over clocked.... I've run my Blue Angel, Hermes, and StarTrek all over clocked.
yeah most overclock at least a bit
though some cpu's never got oc programs i believe
like samsungs hope for your sake that this cpu will get a tool
personaly i'd go with the longer batt life though
and a good driver will prob do alot more for general speed
Don't know why there's so little rumor about this - but there is actually an app that could possibly let us overclock the TC:
http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=11573&page=2
It's called HTC Performance and it has already been included in some HTC Kaiser ROMs. I fit works with the Kaiser, why not with the TC?
I will test this! I just wonder why "nobody" knows about this app.
Found some more info on the forum: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=347546&highlight=htc+performance
Looks like it doesn't work... Or does it? I'm still about to test.
What the f---?! I can't believe this. I set it to 520MHz and PointUI became soo slow. Then I started the camera app and it ran perfectly smooth. PointUI also runs good now after closing th camera app. Don't know what to think about this but: Try it!
@Rudegar
Hm, I would like to have both (more or less ). More power when I need it and less power when battery life is much more important. Maybe a little more speed would provide the performance to play my files encoded in H264 smoothly. But I don't want to watch my files every day so there is no need to overclock my device all the time.
@maati
The people in that forum are talking about an HTC Apache. AFAIK the Apache has an Intel XScale processor. So I would be really surprised if it works with the TC or Kaiser. Maybe there are another tweaks within this package?
Either way, there is at least one company which tries to find a solution: http://www.wizcode.com/devblog/comments/pocket_hack_master_v5_feature_requests/
(Unfortunately they are trying it for just a while and it seems that they still haven't made real efforts)
Guess we'll wait and see.
Rudegar said:
there seem to be a common misconception that the same family of cpus running on various Mhz's are under and overclocks that is sadly not the case not on pc's and not on pda's
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you talking about????
You must have forgotten that 32bit Intel XScale PXA270 processor runs in most devices (such as Gigabyte i350, ASUS P535 and many many other) at 520MHz BUT in XDA Atom life at 624MHZ!!! And we are talking for exactly the same processor!!!
One more example for you because you talked about Samsung processors... 32bit Samsung SC32442 runs in HTC P3600 and ETEN X600 at 400MHz but in ETEN X650, ETEN X800, MWg Zinc II and HTC P3600i runs at 500MHz.
So... who has made the misconception?
Have a nice day!
Still no ideas?
Overclock TC
Kick the subject:
Anyone found a tool to overclock the TC or any suggestions how to write an overclock application?
"You must have forgotten that 32bit Intel XScale PXA270 processor runs in most devices (such as Gigabyte i350, ASUS P535 and many many other) at 520MHz BUT in XDA Atom life at 624MHZ!!! And we are talking for exactly the same processor!!!"
no it's not the same processor at all sure it's the same processor family but
you are dead wrong if you believe that all p4's are the same or all athlons no matter
the mhz
nanometer mean alot and verious silicon dices provide various cabebilites speedwise
2 devices with the same cpu one running 520Mhz and one running 300 dont mean that they took 1 cpu and over or underclocked it
just like the first p4 of the northwind series was 1.6Ghz and the last one was 3.06Ghz this was not! the same chip they just changed the mhz of
apart from just that then just cpu speed is not everything flash storage speed and sd interface speed or wifi or usb speed and lack of gpu driver in tc and kaisers case
are much bigger bottlenecks then cpu speed in current devices
"Intel Bulverde 520 MHz"
The one in the Universal
OR
"Qualcomm MSM7201A 528 Mhz"
in the new HTC HD unit
I feel they are the same. Am I right?
qualcomm is much better
Its similar the difference between a 2.5ghz Pentium 4 and a 2.5ghz Core2Solo
i don't think that core2solo and pentium4 with ht much differ
l2tp said:
i don't think that core2solo and pentium4 with ht much differ
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Click to collapse
Google up "Instructions per second" and you'll understand.
The Netburst architec of P4 is one of the worst example in history of it. A failure by engineering standard.
The PXA270 Processor in the Universal actually runs at 624mhz and is underclocked. The HTC X7500 uses the same CPU running at 624mhz. It is clearly the better CPU.
genetik_freak said:
The PXA270 Processor in the Universal actually runs at 624mhz and is underclocked. The HTC X7500 uses the same CPU running at 624mhz. It is clearly the better CPU.
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Click to collapse
Very, very wrong.
I wouldn't say that the Intel two processors are exactly the same, with one just being underclocked via software. Notice how intel puts out multiple pentiums of a given generation at different speeds? Would you venture to say that all those chips are the same too?
Also, clock speed is a poor metric when comparing chips from different companies. PDADB.Net says that the Intel chip has a ARMv5TE instruction set and the Qualcom chip has a ARMv6 instruction set. The Intel is a generation behind.
Comparing
Wikipedia says
Main article: Megahertz myth
The clock rate of a computer is only useful for providing comparisons between computer chips in the same processor family. An IBM PC with an Intel 486 CPU running at 50 MHz will be about twice as fast as one with the same CPU, memory and display running at 25 MHz, while the same will not be true for MIPS R4000 running at the same clock rate as the two are different processors with different functionality. Furthermore, there are many other factors to consider when comparing the speeds of entire computers, like the clock rate of the computer's front side bus (FSB), the clock rate of the RAM, the width in bits of the CPU's bus and the amount of Level 1, Level 2 and Level 3 cache.
Clock rates should not be used when comparing different computers or different processor families. Rather, some software benchmark should be used. Clock rates can be very misleading since the amount of work different computer chips can do in one cycle varies. For example, RISC CPUs tend to have simpler instructions than CISC CPUs (but higher clock rates), and superscalar processors can execute more than one instruction per cycle (on average), yet it is not uncommon for them to do "less" in a clock cycle. In addition, subscalar CPUs or use of parallelism can also affect the quality of the computer regardless of clock rate.
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Click to collapse
Sonus you are correct about the Mhz comparison. However, the PXA270 in the Universal can be safely "overclocked" to 624Mhz because the chip is designed to max out at that speed.
I would still like to see some benchmark tests between the 624Mhz PXA270, and the 528Mhz Qualcomm MSM7201A.
Generations aside, I can't see the Qualcomm chip outperforming the Intel Chip by much, if any. Also, it should be noted that the PXA270 can be scaled, not sure if that is true for the MSM7201A.
The other catch phrase is "Performance per watt". I bet the MSM7201A has a huge advantage over PXA27x in that, mainly due to newer manufacturing process.
That may be true wuzy, but considering the PXA270 is almost 5 years old and still being used in new devices should tell you plenty about its capabilities and performance.
Not really... It does, however tell a lot about the stinginess of device manufacturers.
As for the overclocking, not every Universal can run 624 MHz without crashing because the CPUs are going through a selection process after manufacturing and there is simply no reason to use the best ones for a device that doesn't need them running at full speed.
The crashes are usually the result of the type of program used to overclock and also the rom. For the most part, people have found that 624mhz is pretty stable, inlcuding myself. Some have even pushed it beyond that speed, but that's another story...
Also take this into consideration:
The Universal has been on the market since 2005, almost 4 years now. By industry standards, it should be obsolete. Why is it not then? Simply, it is quite inexpensive compared to the newer devices having similar features, sometimes less. When it comes to performance vs. price vs. features, you just cannot beat the value of the Universal and its blistering fast 520/624mhz PXA270 CPU! The PXA270's performance is only rivaled by its bigger brother, the 800Mhz PXA320 which has made its way into some newer devices already.
genetik_freak said:
That may be true wuzy, but considering the PXA270 is almost 5 years old and still being used in new devices should tell you plenty about its capabilities and performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try out a Diamond/Touch Pro with Opera9.5 the next time you see one and notice the speed difference.
On MSM7201A compared to our PXA27x it's a lot more smoother.
The lack of driver for MSM7200 on a lot of devices released last year tainted our perception on the new generation chips I think.
Touch HD vs. ASUS Galaxy7 at end of the year... hmmm
I think you're missing the point wuzy.
I know there are newer devices out now that can deliver slightly better performance in some areas than the Universal, but considering how old our device is, it is to be expected. All I'm saying is that given the age of the Universal compared to what's out there now, The Universal has held up well. Furthermore, with all the new cooked roms popping up, you can expect the Uni to live even longer!
Take a look at H.264 decompression and real high performance tasks and the PXA270 looses so badly against the PXA320 that it is not even funny anymore...
Why does the Uni keep up with most software? Because most programs are written for the old ARMv4 instruction set, thus wasting a lot of CPU cycles on newer processors that have already moved on. Apart from that the average application simply does not need that much CPU power to begin with.
The Uni held out well in a market that is very slow to adapt new technologies to begin with. The Axim x50v had a dedicated graphics chip at the end of 2004 - how many applications make use of that today? Only some games (ports, emulators) and media players. For those alone the Axim has held out better than the Uni though as it is still one of the best performing PPCs on the market.
Our little one will be around for quite a while, but it is far, far away from what nowadays devices can offer and it shows if you run anything beyond mail and office apps on it.
Which Processor is faster & better
I feel from your input above that "Qualcomm MSM7201A 528 Mhz" has higher performance, clock rete, Instructions per second, & Performance per watt when compared to the "Intel Bulverde 520 MHz" about 2:1 am I right ?
Another Question:
What is the highest speed Processor available for the PDA industry today?
Best Regards.
IMHO the ARM Cortex processors are very far up the ladder when it comes to performance and energy consumption. The Pandora makers claim 10 hours of runtime for their device. Together with its media chip this little bugger is capable of decoding 720p HD video streams (take a look at the Archos 5)
I am not sure if the MSM7201A chipset's CPU alone reaches twice the performance of the Uni, but you will see a huge difference in apps that support and need the latest in CPU architecture (media players & games). If (one way or the other) the 3D capabilities can be put to use you will probably see more than a 2:1 performance boost.
The sad truth is the Universal is one of the slowest VGA devices around. Especially considering lack of the graphical accelerator (which was even present in prototypes).
Too bad the dedicated 3D chip didn't make it into the final design. But it's still better than having a 3D accelerator without drivers! I have a Sharp EM-ONE here with a GoForce 5500 that could theoretically accelerate many video formats. The sad truth is that because there are no drivers no media player can make use of the chip. Even worse: Because the graphics chip still controls the display video is even slower because the optimized X-Scale drivers can't be used. It's like Sharp and NVidia wanted to punish users double So, as bad as it is, the Uni is not the worst device out there!
x86
I wonder why there´re no x86 cpu´s placed in mobile devices yet. maybe because of the high power consumption? x86 cpu´s running at 528mhz would be more powerful than arm cpu´s. furthermore the device could run x86 os like xp embedded with more features and capabilities...
x86 CPU enabled systems are still too much power hungry and too much complicated to be used in such a small device (sounds weird when talking abut HTC Universal, doesn't it).
Hey guys,
Could someone please let me know which tablets are being/have been released in 2011 sporting the Tegra 3 (Kal-El) processor? Especially if they're out/easily importable to the UK! Thanks
*EDIT* The one I'm aware of atm is the Asus Transformer Prime - does anyone have a definite release day for this?
Prime is the only one that's anounced yet!
http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/09/transformer-prime-detailed-10-inch-super-ips-display-12-hour
"December" is still all I've heard of a release date. But it supposed to be a worldwide release so I'm assuming shortages will be a given.
mordbane said:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/09/transformer-prime-detailed-10-inch-super-ips-display-12-hour
"December" is still all I've heard of a release date. But it supposed to be a worldwide release so I'm assuming shortages will be a given.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah cool, so I'll be able to order it from the UK? Hoping to get it by xmas ya know
Prime in december
Cyrano4 said:
Prime in december
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not for the UK though?
Nice Tegra 3 is very good
Ant38 said:
Nice Tegra 3 is very good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why? beacuse of 4 cores?
You won't use the power of them... at the moment Android doesn't use 2 cores properly
2, 4 or idk 16 cores doesn't mean that system will be faster
look at HTC 7 Mozart with WP7.5 - 1 core snapdragon with 512 MB and system is very smooth and fast
I think that producers must focus at optimization of their version of Android
making smartphones with better hardware is not a solution - it only makes more problems
darasz89 said:
why? beacuse of 4 cores?
You won't use the power of them... at the moment Android doesn't use 2 cores properly
2, 4 or idk 16 cores doesn't mean that system will be faster
look at HTC 7 Mozart with WP7.5 - 1 core snapdragon with 512 MB and system is very smooth and fast
I think that producers must focus at optimization of their version of Android
making smartphones with better hardware is not a solution - it only makes more problems
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you when you say about Android, which doesn't take full advantage of 4 cores.
But the main feature in the quad-core technology is the battery life saving.
Eventually, in the next year when there will be optimized app for dual and quad- core CPU, this tablet ( or any other 4cores phone) will rock for many, many months.
yukinok25 said:
But the main feature in the quad-core technology is the battery life saving.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4 core CPU takes less energy than 1 core? you are wrong
yes its true that power use per 1 core in tegra3 is low but overall its larger that single or dual core
darasz89 said:
4 core CPU takes less energy than 1 core? you are wrong
yes its true that power use per 1 core in tegra3 is low but overall its larger that single or dual core
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, its' use less power for normal usage.
It's obvious that if you use ALL 4 cores, the drain would be more than a single core CPU:
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/hi...n-actually-use-less-power-than-dual-core/7976
Qualcomm as well is claiming that his next generation quad core phones will save 65% of battery life compare to the current ARM CPU:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...debuts-single-dual-quad-core-snapdragon-chips
speculations and promises of manufacturers
the major factor of power usage is system resources managment
at start new 4-core CPU will consume more energy beacuse of lack efficient support for 4 cores - but someday it will be optimized well
but the question is: do we really need 4 cores? i think that we need better optimized sotfware
did I loose my mind? look at devices running WP7.5 and tell me that Android is smoother [I'm not a M$ fanboy ]
now with 2cores we have big computing power and it should be use efficiently
darasz89 said:
speculations and promises of manufacturers
the major factor of power usage is system resources managment
at start new 4-core CPU will consume more energy beacuse of lack efficient support for 4 cores - but someday it will be optimized well
but the question is: do we really need 4 cores? i think that we need better optimized sotfware
did I loose my mind? look at devices running WP7.5 and tell me that Android is smoother [I'm not a M$ fanboy ]
now with 2cores we have big computing power and it should be use efficiently
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really hope is not speculation, cause we need battery life saving for our devices.
I am agree about the lack of apps optimized for a 4 cores CPU, however my I7-740Qm use less battery (I repeat on normal usage) than my old AMD Athlon XP, because of the improvement in architecture and technology such as Turbo Boost or Hyperthreading that Intel has implemented.
I believe the new 28nm CPU from Qualcomm and Nvidia will bring similar helpful features.
you're comparing normal CPU's
all the time I was talking about CPU on smartphones
difference between those two CPUs you mentioned is comparable to difference between Ford T and Ferrari Enzo
on smartphones we have limited resources - you cannot easily add f.e. 512 MB of RAM, change CPU or GPU
we have more limited hardware compared to PC
the goal is optimalization of software not adding cores to CPU or more RAM
Edit
Tegra2 and Tegra3 both have 40 nm process
Source
@OP
2011 is not a good year for hunting Tegra 3.
With only one product Asus TF Prime out, it could happen like the Xoom launch.
Although the prime seems like a very nice upgrade, I'm already reading about Lenovo and Acer bringing 1920*1200 res screens.
I know you may have your preference on your Manufacturer, I do too, but it's better to wait a bit to see all the players then choose.
I waited a bit and got a Galaxy Tab 10.1 one of the best tegra 2 tablets. Really interested in what Samsung can bring in 2012.
darasz89 said:
you're comparing normal CPU's
all the time I was talking about CPU on smartphones
difference between those two CPUs you mentioned is comparable to difference between Ford T and Ferrari Enzo
on smartphones we have limited resources - you cannot easily add f.e. 512 MB of RAM, change CPU or GPU
we have more limited hardware compared to PC
the goal is optimalization of software not adding cores to CPU or more RAM
Edit
Tegra2 and Tegra3 both have 40 nm process
Source
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup that was just an example darasz89
Why do you think we have limited resources? Would you expect 2 years ago that one day we would use a smartphone big like 2 packs of cigarettes combined together, with a full OS installed, 4 cores, and 1GB of RAM?
Mobile technology is the future. We will see much more hopefully...
Yup, only Qualcomm for now will use 28nm technlogy.
priority of Android devices should be optimized software before hardware
I don't think that way you see the future of Android is bad, but first we should use all of "given power" of 2 core CPU and after that extend to 4core
funny summary: "With great power comes great responsibility."
Just pre-ordered prime from my local Future Shop. *Anxiously awaiting*
darasz89 said:
priority of Android devices should be optimized software before hardware
I don't think that way you see the future of Android is bad, but first we should use all of "given power" of 2 core CPU and after that extend to 4core
funny summary: "With great power comes great responsibility."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually that should be the priority of software in general, but wrriting good code is hard enough. Right now, ever since the software crisis, hardware has always been two three steps ahead of software, and right now it is in a way a good thing. You don't want a software to be lagging on your computer because its not powerful enough right? You'd rather have the extra juice to power any software with ease.
Hey guys!! According to bestbuy canada, the expected warehouse delivery date is December 5, 2011. Not going to check elsewhere, but just an FYI to all who asked.
Link
I've been doing quite a bit of research on GPU's and CPU's in phone's/tablets lately. And I have a few unanswered questions that I can't seem to find an answer for.
1: What's the best chipset available for mobile phones and tablets right now? This link cleared quite a bit up for me, it does a fairly indepth comparison for both GPU and CPU performance between the Qualcomm S4, Tegra 3, OMAP 4470, and the Exynos 4212. And I dont want the 'Well this is better because it has more jiggahertz". Shut up, that's not what I need. I need something more indepth. If studies on individual GPU comparison can be provided, please drop a link. I'd like to know these things very well.
2: What individual GPU is currently the best? I realize the Ipad3 came out with with a graphics chip that's supposedly superior to the Xbox/PS3's. However I take anything Apple says with a grain of salt, they're notorious for shooting flaming BS out of their rear. However based on the little bit of searching I've done, the Adreno GPU's seem to be ahead of their time. I previously thought the Mali 400 GPU in the Exynos chipset was one of the best, but apparently it's outdated. Again, links to tests/studies/comparisons would be appreciated.
3: What's the deal with the ARM chips? Are the A5's, A6's, A11's, (and whatever other A chips out there are), some standard CPU developed by ARM and licensed out to all manufacturers to use in their chipsets?
4: What alternatives are there to the ARM CPU's? Most chipsets I research seem to be using a Cortex A9 chip.
5: What's the difference between the A5, A6, A9, etc. From what I've seen the higher numbers are the newer models, but I feel like that's a very shallow definition. If that is true, why does the newest iPad only use an A5x chip for it's quad core rather than an A9 or something of the sort.
6: Is the chipset in the iPad really the fastest out there? Personally, I can't really stand apple products; let alone the rabid fanboys and the obnoxious advertisements they put out. I can recognize that they very often gloat about their products and overexaggerate; like how they said the dual core in the iPhone 4s is the fastest out there, yet from what I've read the A5 is the worst performing dual core out there. Is the GPU in the tablet really superior to the Xbox? And is the processor really able to outdo the Tegra 3?
If you're able to answer any one of these, even exclusively, that would be appreciated. I just like knowledge
MultiLockOn said:
I've been doing quite a bit of research on GPU's and CPU's in phone's/tablets lately. And I have a few unanswered questions that I can't seem to find an answer for.
1: What's the best chipset available for mobile phones and tablets right now? This link cleared quite a bit up for me, it does a fairly indepth comparison for both GPU and CPU performance between the Qualcomm S4, Tegra 3, OMAP 4470, and the Exynos 4212. And I dont want the 'Well this is better because it has more jiggahertz". Shut up, that's not what I need. I need something more indepth. If studies on individual GPU comparison can be provided, please drop a link. I'd like to know these things very well.
2: What individual GPU is currently the best? I realize the Ipad3 came out with with a graphics chip that's supposedly superior to the Xbox/PS3's. However I take anything Apple says with a grain of salt, they're notorious for shooting flaming BS out of their rear. However based on the little bit of searching I've done, the Adreno GPU's seem to be ahead of their time. I previously thought the Mali 400 GPU in the Exynos chipset was one of the best, but apparently it's outdated. Again, links to tests/studies/comparisons would be appreciated.
3: What's the deal with the ARM chips? Are the A5's, A6's, A11's, (and whatever other A chips out there are), some standard CPU developed by ARM and licensed out to all manufacturers to use in their chipsets?
4: What alternatives are there to the ARM CPU's? Most chipsets I research seem to be using a Cortex A9 chip.
5: What's the difference between the A5, A6, A9, etc. From what I've seen the higher numbers are the newer models, but I feel like that's a very shallow definition. If that is true, why does the newest iPad only use an A5x chip for it's quad core rather than an A9 or something of the sort.
6: Is the chipset in the iPad really the fastest out there? Personally, I can't really stand apple products; let alone the rabid fanboys and the obnoxious advertisements they put out. I can recognize that they very often gloat about their products and overexaggerate; like how they said the dual core in the iPhone 4s is the fastest out there, yet from what I've read the A5 is the worst performing dual core out there. Is the GPU in the tablet really superior to the Xbox? And is the processor really able to outdo the Tegra 3?
If you're able to answer any one of these, even exclusively, that would be appreciated. I just like knowledge
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Click to collapse
1. Dunno right now, it's always changing. I hear the new Qualcomm processors with the new Andreno gpu are supposed to be the ****, but it's not out yet so who knows. The iPad 3 currently has not had any real world tests done yet, we need to wait for release. It is basically the same A5 chip as the iPad 2 but with the PSVita's gpu thrown in.
2. *sigh* The iPad 3 is not more powerful than an Xbox 360. It is better in I believe one aspect (more memory), but this has very little impact on performance/graphics quality. This is Apple shooting wads of **** out it's arse, or whoever made the claim. It's actually using the same GPU found in the PSVita, which we all know is not as powerful as a PS3/Xbox360. However, the PSVita is also using a quad core cpu, whereas the iPad 3 is using the same dual core A5 as the iPad 2, so technically the PSVita is superior. You also have to consider how many more pixels the gpu has to power on the iPad 3's display. While high res is nice, it takes more power to render it.
3. ARM creates a base chip for companies to slap their own GPU's and name on. The naming structure is pretty self explanatory.
4. All CPU's currently in tablets/cellphones are a variant of the ARM. A Cortex A9 is still an ARM chip. This will soon change when Intel releases their tablet/phone chips.
5. You're right, higher numbers do mean newer modeling. I don't know all the exacts, but with the newer ARM series you get higher and/or more efficient clocks, generally some battery savings, and in some series support for more cores. Apple's labeling of their chips has nothing to do with ARM's, it's their own naming scheme. The A5x is just what Apple calls their version of the ARM processor.
6. I believe atm the iPad 3 has the fastest chipset in a tablet..for now. It won't take long for it to be overtaken by other companies, there's so much in the works right now.
speedyink said:
1. Dunno right now, it's always changing. I hear the new Qualcomm processors with the new Andreno gpu are supposed to be the ****, but it's not out yet so who knows. The iPad 3 currently has not had any real world tests done yet, we need to wait for release. It is basically the same A5 chip as the iPad 2 but with the PSVita's gpu thrown in.
2. *sigh* The iPad 3 gpu is not more powerful than an Xbox 360. It is better in I believe one aspect (more memory), but this has very little impact on performance/graphics quality. This is Apple shooting wads of **** out it's arse, or whoever made the claim. It's actually using the same GPU found in the PSVita, which we all know is not as powerful as a PS3/Xbox360. However, the PSVita is also using a quad core cpu, whereas the iPad 3 is using the same dual core A5 as the iPad 2, so technically the PSVita is superior.
3. ARM creates a base chip for companies to slap their own GPU's and name on. The naming structure is pretty self explanatory.
4. All CPU's currently in tablets/cellphones are a variant of the ARM. A Cortex A9 is still an ARM chip. This will soon change when Intel releases their tablet/phone chips.
5. You're right, higher numbers do mean newer modeling. I don't know all the exacts, but with the newer ARM series you get higher and/or more efficient clocks, generally some battery savings, and in some series support for more cores. Apple's labeling of their chips has nothing to do with ARM's, it's their own naming scheme. The A5x is just what Apple calls their version of the ARM processor.
6. I believe atm the iPad 3 has the fastest chipset in a tablet..for now. It won't take long for it to be overtaken by other companies, there's so much in the works right now.
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Thanks for the reply. It seems weird to me that Apple would rename a CPU to something as similar to one that would already exist, A5x as to A5.
MultiLockOn said:
Thanks for the reply. It seems weird to me that Apple would rename a CPU to something as similar to one that would already exist, A5x as to A5.
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Because Apple is the type of company to step on someones feet like that, and then sue them later on for copyright infringement. Damn the confusion, Apple starts with A, so will their processors.
speedyink said:
Because Apple is the type of company to step on someones feet like that, and then sue them later on for copyright infringement. Damn the confusion, Apple starts with A, so will their processors.
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yeah, apple just simply buy a technology and re-label them, make patent and troll others. so for comparison, apple doesn't count. Also these handheld chipset can't be compared with consoles, consoles have more proccessing power like more RAM bandwidth and polygons.
Anyway.. based on my experience, mali400 exynos has a butterly smooth performance for both UI and 3D graphics. I've tried both Gingerbread GNote and my SGS2.
on the other hand, Google did a great job with TI OMAP for it's Galaxy Nexus, pure HW accelerated 4.0.3.. with very little glitch, but I believe it's software issue.
IMO if you wanna buy a fast and smooth device, follow the current Nexus spec (at least similar) like GNexus, Motorola RAZR, etc. I've seen Tegra 3 4+1 Transformer Prime but never hands-on it. as far as i seen, UI and 3D performance are stunning. 1 extra core advantage is for low power mode when doing light proccessing and standby mode. Today hardwares are fast enough, drivers and OS optimisation are very important thing if you want everything run smoothly.
cmiiw, sorry for bad english
lesp4ul said:
yeah, apple just simply buy a technology and re-label them, make patent and troll others. so for comparison, apple doesn't count. Also these handheld chipset can't be compared with consoles, consoles have more proccessing power like more RAM bandwidth and polygons.
Anyway.. based on my experience, mali400 exynos has a butterly smooth performance for both UI and 3D graphics. I've tried both Gingerbread GNote and my SGS2.
on the other hand, Google did a great job with TI OMAP for it's Galaxy Nexus, pure HW accelerated 4.0.3.. with very little glitch, but I believe it's software issue.
IMO if you wanna buy a fast and smooth device, follow the current Nexus spec (at least similar) like GNexus, Motorola RAZR, etc. I've seen Tegra 3 4+1 Transformer Prime but never hands-on it. as far as i seen, UI and 3D performance are stunning. 1 extra core advantage is for low power mode when doing light proccessing and standby mode. Today hardwares are fast enough, drivers and OS optimisation are very important thing if you want everything run smoothly.
cmiiw, sorry for bad english
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I kmow what you mean. Im extremely happy with my galaxy s2, I cant say I ever recall it lagging on me in any way whatsoever. Im not sure what makes the droid razr and galaxy nexus comparable to the s2. From what Ive read Omap processors tend to lag and consume battery, and the mali 400 is better than what either of those phones have. Id say its ICS but the razr still
Runs gingerbread
I was hoping for some more attention in here :/
I agree, omaps are battery hungry beast. Like my previous Optimus Black, man... i only got 12-14 hours with edge (1ghz UV smartass v2, also ****ty LG kernel haha). Same issue as my friend's Galaxy SL. I dunno if newer soc has a better behaviour.
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