Is there any way to configure universal for microsoft windows sideshow (in vista)?
kingdomraj said:
Is there any way to configure universal for microsoft windows sideshow (in vista)?
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Umm ..... you might want to stay off smoking the weed for a while because side-show is targeted for quick access to information which are traditionally attained by booting up the machine.
That said, under which scenario would your Universal be powered down whereby you would still demand access to information inside it.
This is ofcourse one interpretation of your query.
The other interpretation is if the Universal is hooked up to your PC / Laptop which is powered down, hence making the Universal device itself immitate as a side-show device.
The problem with this is that:
1. The SideShow Emulation Software for the Universal (which does not exist) needs to be developed
2. The USB, IR, and Bluetooth hardware of the PC / Laptop are the only interfaces to the Universal and all require the PC / Laptop to be powered up.
well in that case go for your second interpretation.. ust to keep you reminded that the new launch ie imate ultimate series due to be launched in Q2/Q3 this year supports this feature (windows side show)
and as far as my knowledge goes sideshow is only functional wen ur pc is on,( may be in sleep mode too)
if you want a link for this piece of information let me know , i ll send it across to you.
too true. One of the Microsoft developers in a discussion on WM6, mentioned the possiblity of other devices being able to use this feature. Realistically if its possible it would be highly in MS interest to do so. Otherwise at this rate, the sideshow feature is pretty useless given the complete lack of devices out there.....but turn your WM6 device into a sideshow compatible device and you watch the platform take off.
kingdomraj said:
well in that case go for your second interpretation.. ust to keep you reminded that the new launch ie imate ultimate series due to be launched in Q2/Q3 this year supports this feature (windows side show)
and as far as my knowledge goes sideshow is only functional wen ur pc is on,( may be in sleep mode too)
if you want a link for this piece of information let me know , i ll send it across to you.
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Well .... is this info not suitable to be posted in this thread? I am sure such information would be beneficial to the masses. I this actually turns out to be true, the USB interface would be the interface of choice between the WM6 device and the PC / Laptop.
That said, I still believe that such a development is useless because of the major flaw side-show has been built on. Yes, I guess I am saying that although side-show is a good idea in general, Microsoft's implementation of it is totally flawed such that side-show is indeed a useless piece of technology.
Here is the reason why:
1. The purpose of Side-Show is to access PC information while the PC is powered-off or in sleep mode. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/sideshow.mspx
2. To access PC information, the OS (or part of it) must be in a runtime state. For any part of the OS to be "alive" - the hardware (Processor, RAM, HDD, I/O Devices like the USB Interface, Network Interface, Bluetooth Interface, IR Interface, Sound Card?? ... etc...) must be "alive" as well. Setting the Network Interface to be alive even when the device is powered down is a simple configuration change in the BIOS. But for the HDD - this is completely impossible with today's technology. For part of the OS to be alive, a flash based device must be at the PC's disposal. This could means SSD Disks or a sizeable on-board (mainboard) FLASH. Intel's Robson component in the new Processors could also work since it is no different from an on-board FLASH. As for the other intrface devices (USB, IR, Bluetooth, etc..) being supplied with power when the whole device is powered down, again - today's mainboards just cannot do it.
3. The nail on the coffin fo SideShow is "POWER" - as in electricity. With so many portable devices sufferring from short lifespans-per-battery-charge, SideShow will drain the lifespan even further. Here is a scenario, you bought the ASUS W5fe laptop - the first one with a SideShow dedicated secondary display. This laptop has a runtime battery life of 3 hours (this is already a highly overestimated figure). With the machine powered down but side-show activated - the laptop's battery still continues to drain. Its power level can be determined directly on the sideshow display, but its drainage is dependant on how you use SideShow.
After reading the following reviews:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/notebooks/review/2007/04/25/Asus-W5Fe-Windows-Sideshow-Notebook/p1
http://eng.mobile01.com/newsdetail.php?id=3388
I believe that the USB interface despite being the interface of choice with the Universal, is rather impractical. A Bluetooth interface would instead be the preferred choice, but this seems rather even more impossible as far as the PC's mainboard is concerned. The reviews above have already cited USB issues when the machine is in Sleep Mode and SideShow is active which confirm the mainboard problems I have highlighted in previous posts. Additionally, the reviews refuse to put figures of power consumption and instead simply mention "lower power consumption" repeatedly. I would not be suprised if the lifespan per-battery-charge of the machine is something like 3.5 hours assuming 3 hours is the longest lifespan when the machine is fully powered up. Yes, I am saying that I am expecting the Asus machine to be marginally more "power efficient" under sideshow operation with the machine in sleep-mode, that it becomes irrelevant in the big picture.
One thing for sure is that without massive investment in the SideShow hardware required on the PC - SideShow is totally useless with today's machines already in the market.
I have a delivery for a Dell XPS M1710 machine due next week and this new machine is already incapable of accomodating SideShow.
Sideshow will wake the PC up to update info on the device.
If you have a digital photo frame that supports sideshow applets, it's irrelevant if works via wifi, bluetooth, or usb, it will recieve an update from the PC when it wakes up.
I haven't seen any Microsoft documentation to state it manages to do all of this in a sleep mode, it simply wakes up from sleep mode to update, then goes back to sleep.
That said though, I do think it's a bit pointless on a PocketPC device, you already have time, date, photos, weather, calendar & mail, as well as RSS feeds, and that covers nearly all the applets that can run on sidebar, and therefore sideshow.
I'm sure there may be a handful of users here that have a genuine need for something like this that they could not do on the pocketpc itself, but I think most people want it simply because it's an option. I also bet most of those people would get bored of it very quickly once they realise it's easier to just do it on the PPC in the first place.
One other major feature of Windows SideShow is the ability to control Windows Media Center remotely. I for one like the idea of using my Universal as a remote for my HTPC, being able to view the TV guide on my device, schedule shows to record and change the music that's currently playing for example.
MS Announced at MEDC there will be SideShowPPC
Hey,
MS reckon they are producing a software solution.
Over here: http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/showpost.aspx?postid=1660169&siteid=1
I kinda hope it works over wifi, or internet, so it can be used on the go. Seems to be a few gadgets popping up now for sideshow, too.
poedgirl said:
One other major feature of Windows SideShow is the ability to control Windows Media Center remotely. I for one like the idea of using my Universal as a remote for my HTPC, being able to view the TV guide on my device, schedule shows to record and change the music that's currently playing for example.
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Urm, not quite, the only thing SideShow adds is the ability to have a screen on the media centre remote, and therefore see things like tv guides on that.
All of the remote control functionality has been around since 2004 since Windows Media Centre came out.
The SideShow would give a display to your remote control, it would not make a display device into a remote control.
What did you guys say?
I'm not an expert, but I think this should be put in Off Topic
When I browsed here, I was looking for a way to make my Trinity to act a bit 'SideShowy', not an explanation of what SideShow is! So does someone have a clue that's NOT Off Topic?!?
Related
I just installed VirtualDisp and it's a really kick-ass piece of software. So anyone who does not know it yet, give it a try! (http://world.kyuran.be/) It lets you use your computer's mouse and keyboard to control your ppc. The amazing thing is, its "client"-side only (you don't need any additional software on your mobile device!) - just activesync your device and you are ready to go. It "extends" your desktop in the way modern graphics drivers do when multiple monitors are attached. Just move your mouse out over one edge of your monitor and your cursor will appear on your mobile device's lcd.
Hi Registererer!
This post got me curios so I went and downloaded the demo version.
As I suspected, this functionality cannot be achieved without a server on the device side. They use a DLL which is a RAPI extension. They copy it silently to the device so you don't notice it. I found this out when I tried the free version on a WM5 device. It only comes with the DLL for WM 2003.
Any way, it's not that great since you can't see the PPC screen on the PC. There is a tool from Microsoft (completely free), called Remote Control (something, don't remember) and another tool from some company (not free) that shows you the PPC screen on the PC and lets you use the mouse and keyboard of the PC for input.
So this is a nice little app, but I doubt it will sell.
Levenum don't be so hard on the guy
The thing is Register that SOTI Pocket / Smartphone Controler is a kick ass app that is far more advanced than VirtualDisp... and not much more expensive.
So it needs to have something extra to catch the atention
But its a good start
Cheers,
Raul
Sorry, didn't mean to heart anyone's feelings!
It is a cute app. Perhaps if they add the functionality of using it as a virtual mouse without the PC connection (using the joystick). There was a thread here somewhere of people looking for just such an app.
By the way, have you tried it on WM5? I know from experience that just transferring a DLL won't do so they would have to install a signed cab. Does it connect as smoothly as it does on WM 2003. That is one strong point I noticed: They detect the AS connection immediately, and you don't have to wait before you can use the app.
Is there an application for the TP which allows for the device to be used as a HID over Bluetooth to control a desktop PC?
there are programs that let you control your desktop PC in various ways, but nothing specific for TP or the keyboard
Wow great idea, that would be nifty on my CarPC! I'm always looking for a smaller keyboard to fit there...
Can't be that hard, I'm sure someone can do that, with all the specialists we have here in this wonderful community
"can't be that hard"?
How did you come to this conclusion?
Educated guess? Or just guess?
Well it would need to modify a little bit the bluetooth stack and emulate a HID keyboard, I guess.
Tonight I'm the Jeremy Clarkson of the day, with his most famous quote: "how hard can it be?!" when obviously it is very hard to do...
So I absolutely don't mean it is an easy thing to do, but I'm sure some experts in XDA-Dev are skilled enough to do it.
Hey, a man can dream, right?
Another option is to use a program like VNC to pilot your pc from the your raphael.
Used to do it with my old ppc (Toshiba e830). This works only if the computer you want to control is also in the same network (connected either through LAN cable or wifi).
Yes, I'm aware of a number of remote control solutions, but they all require an application to be run on the PC to be controlled. I'm really looking for a solutions which is purely based on HID. Like the Sony Ericsson remote control feature on the new phones. Great for presentations and Media Player. Any ideas?
Not exactly what you were talking about but...
http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/
About the size of a lighter, and you can use it for you phone as well. (Picture attaching your phone to the TV in the back. Using your bluetooth to open a program on it. Then typing away on the scren with this "futuristic keyboard from the stars!!".... or something like that.)
that must be one of the most useless gadgets ever created
huge initial "wow" factor, but that is all
Useless? I don't know... over priced, and unnecessary maybe, but a portable full sized keyboard doesn't seem useless to me.
Have you tried it?
I have. Very stupid to tap a plain table, since you cannot feel anything (even the separation of the buttons) you make 60% mistakes.
Also, it is not even portable! You need a large flat surface to put it and to let it throw its beam.
(and one more thing to recharge)
I stand by my original wording.
nethopper said:
Yes, I'm aware of a number of remote control solutions, but they all require an application to be run on the PC to be controlled. I'm really looking for a solutions which is purely based on HID. Like the Sony Ericsson remote control feature on the new phones. Great for presentations and Media Player. Any ideas?
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Well, HID implementation in Windows also includes programs and services that start with your windows. So if you have to install only 1 program to make it run I don't think it is a big deal.
It's 3 years I use my main computer this way. As I have a projector and don't want to start it every time I installed VNC server in my main computer (freeware) and VNC client in both my laptop and PPC, and it works pretty well (especially with Vista on my laptop, it runs pretty smooth).
@NLS:
Hmm, well from that description I will have to agree with you and add useless to my definition of the product as well.
@nethopper:
Yeah if you were looking for remote solutions I would suggest Logmein.com (the free version because I am cheap). If you want something that purely converts your phones keyboard into a computer keyboard... I found ( http://en.handybyte.com/cat/system-utilities/communications/blueremote/ ) for palm devices, this ( http://en.handybyte.com/cat/system-utilities/enhancements/ppc-tablet-remote-control-suite/ ) for ppc but over TCP/IP instead of bluetooth, and a patent showing that someone *Microsoft* is working/has worked on the idea ( http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0120448.html ) so the search continues
@FlippyTK: I'm aware of the VNC solution, but I'm really looking for something as slim and elegant as the software on the SE phones. There are situations where you don't want or can't install anything on the host PC.
@NetApex: Thanks, for the links. The MS patent is strange, how could they file something as obvious as this? There must be prior art... But the patent might be the reason why such a software does not exist. I guess everybody is afraid of the MS lawyers...
I'll keep searching, please let us know if you have the solution...
I'm not sure a pure HID solution is possible. If the Raphael keyboard is indeed a HID-capable device, then the phone itself is its host. Since you would have to go through the host (in this case, WM) to access the bluetooth stack, the most direct solution is a software "pass-through" program.
[edited]
The SE solution is using bluetooth HID emulation, so I will take a look into that.
For now, the TCP/IP solution shouldn't be a problem: you can setup a bluetooth PAN for TCP/IP connectivity.
For reference, one software that is closest to what you have in mind is Synergy, a similar host/client pass-through program that allows you to use one keyboard/mouse on multiple networked computers (without using hardware KVM switch, etc). It's only Windows/Mac/Unix, no PPC client, but maybe it will help point you in the right direction.
I found the following article which gives a nice overview of remote control solutions:
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/cms/blogs/3/remote_media_controllers_for_windows_mob
The software from Jerom does a nice job (http://www.jaylee.org/RemoteControl/) and I used it on my Prophet for some time. It requires for a small program to be installed on the host and it is easy to set up. But I had it hang a few times (typically in the middle of a management presentation) and therefore I abandoned it. The SE solution I had before was absolutely reliable and that's why I look for something similar for WM.
In principle, the solution is simple: Implement a HID device driver and pass key/touches to it. I did some programming for WM devices but I never tackled the bluetooth stack... there is a significant hurdle - otherwise someone else would have done this app already. ;-)
that would be cool
using the phone to open an app that is named "operate as bluetooth keyboard" and clicking start to take control of a home theater PC using teh TV as your monitor and the desktop media PC as the CPU and just using your phone as nothing more than a keyboard would be pretty slick.
golympio said:
Wow great idea, that would be nifty on my CarPC! I'm always looking for a smaller keyboard to fit there...
Can't be that hard, I'm sure someone can do that, with all the specialists we have here in this wonderful community
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If you are so much interested in a small portable keyboard, why dont you try diNovo Mini from logitech http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboards/&cl=roeu,en
Quite cool. I use it for my Media Center!
Cyber-mate said:
If you are so much interested in a small portable keyboard, why dont you try diNovo Mini from logitech http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboards/&cl=roeu,en
Quite cool. I use it for my Media Center!
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That is cool, but also pricey
UP!!!!!
Hey Guys,
I am thinking about purchasing a Surface, but not sure which to go with. I would prefer the 64GB one but not sure if I should go RT or Pro.
What are the main differences between the RT and the Pro? Why go Pro and not RT?
Please help me out guys
Its a very blunt difference.
The Surface RT uses an ARM processor. The Surface Pro uses an x86 processor.
As a result of that the Surface RT uses Windows RT which is not the same as Windows 8. Windows RT only runs on ARM processors and will not run software from previous versions of windows. All of your existing windows software will no longer work on the RT. RT can only install software downloaded from microsoft app store OR there is a jailbreak on these very forums allowing you to download software specifically ported for windows RT. Note, it must be specifically ported and there is no way of taking a DVD of software you already own and converting it for windows RT, basically if its not a piece of open source software then there is a 0% chance of getting it on your RT, if it is open source software then *eventually* you might be able to have a port but right now there are hurdles we need to get over first. Windows RT does come preinstalled with microsoft office though (although some macro's and extra features are missing). Internet explorer is the only web browser on it right now but does work in both metro and desktop mode. Someone is working on chromium (googles open source version of google chrome) but that has alot of problems that need solving yet. There is an x86 emulator but its too slow to be used on anything but software from the 90's maybe.
Regular versions of windows (including windows 8) can only run on an x86 processor (such as almost anything made by intel or AMD). The Surface Pro does have this and comes pre installed with Windows 8 Pro accordingly. As a result all existing windows software that you may own will run on the Surface Pro. Downsides are that the battery life is significantly impacted (Toms hardware recorded over 7 hours on the RT but only 5 on the Pro), the weight is increased, fans are needed to cool the intel core i5 chip empowering the Pro so you have noise from them and it costs about twice as much as the RT. The pro also gets a fancy wacom stylus.
If your just web browsing and can live with only using the microsoft store and the limited pool of software available via the jailbreak (read in the relevant threads for more info) then go for the RT as its cheaper.
But if you do need full compatibility with previous windows software you own then RT will just annoy you, you'll have to splash out more cash sadly.
One other thing. The surface RT and the surface Pro are not the only windows tablets on the market. Windows RT tablet choice is a little limited (and out of the bunch then either the Surface RT or the Asus Vivotab RT are the best in my opinion) but there are plenty of full windows 8 tablets. Some of the other full windows 8 tablets use an intel atom processor instead of an intel core i3/i5/i7. The atom processor powered tablets often manage to ditch the fans featured in the core i series devices, boost the battery life to be competitive with ARM/WindowsRT devices, reduce weight inline with ARM tablets and most importantly reduces cost to be more inline with ARM devices. Infact thats the most annoying thing about current Windows RT on ARM devices, there is very little reason to buy them when in the same form factor, cost, weight and battery life you can have a tablet running full Windows 8 on the intel atom which is an x86 chip. Downside to the intel atom compared to the core i3/i5/i7 powered devices is processing power. They are not very powerful. The core i3/i5/i7 could possibly be used for some light 3d gaming but the atom will probably only cope with 2d games and not so much in the way of 3d (although that said, my friend plays minecraft on a previous gen lower clock speed intel atom quite happily and according to all benchmarks the intel atoms are more powerful than my current laptop which also copes with minecraft).
64GB Pro is a good compromise. It allows you to get rid of your tablet and your laptop and go for an all in 1 solution that can later be expanded via SD card to add additional 128 GB
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
Ryno_666 said:
can later be expanded via SD card to add additional 128 GB
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Click to collapse
via microSD not SD. Max size microSD available on the market right now is 64gb not 128.
Just go with the 64GB model Pro. You can always just add a MicroSD card for an extra 64 GB of space for movies, pics, etc..
The RT model will only use the RT software and the Pro will also use any PC software. No brainer for my choice.
Depends on what you need and want. The RT Imo blows the hell out of every other tablet on the market. The Pro is a desktop replacement. I went with the RT because I needed all day battery life, and have a pretty powerful desktop at home for gaming/encoding and most apps are available for the RT that use. Honestly the pro to rt compares are pretty pointless, it's like comparing an ipad with a mac book air (with way worse battery) and talking about the ipad like it's a POS because the air can do more. You also need to look at the Os's, Ipad and Android tablets are basically big phones honestly. Most android apps for tablets are phone apps just scaled to be huge. Windows RT is a watered down full OS which means printing is easy easier, full access to file system like you're used to, and a full office suite where you can actually be productive.
So long story short, do you NEED to run x86 apps on your tablet, is it your only PC, and do you not mind 3-4 hour battery? Then stick with the pro. If you want a kick ass tablet, RT is where it's at IMO.
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2
If you're only going to be doing regular tablet stuff, like browsing, watching videos/movies etc, but still feel like you need a full windows 8 experience, you should check out the Asus Vivotab smart. It uses a dual core Intel atom x86 processor clocked at around 1.8 ghz, had 64 gb storage, nfc, 10.1 inch screen with optional Bluetooth keyboard. Best of all, it only costs $499 (excluding the keyboard) and has 8.5 hours of battery life on regular use and 7 hours on heavy use. I checked out a couple of reviews (engadget and cnet) and both were very positive. The surface pro is geared towards 'prosumers' who create as well as consume and so require the processing power of an i5. But for the money, the vivotab is the best windows 8 tablet...... IN THE WORLD! (Jeremy Clarkson voice)
Sent from my Xperia X10 using xda app-developers app
RT is arguably more secure. Battery life is better. Cheaper. Very close to the full Windows experience compared to other popular tablets. Mail app is crappy. Can get sluggish like a netbook depending on how you use it. All plug-ins and drivers aren't compatible. So you couldn't root your android device with a RT for example or install a MMO you like.
Pro is a much faster full Windows experience with it's i5 and SSD and can do nearly everything your desktop/laptop can do but it's ports and screen size are limited. It has nifty pen input. Scaling issues. Its GPU is weak for games. Do you need a powerful computer that's mobile or a companion device that lasts most of the day? Basically what it comes down to.
vesper007 said:
Best of all, it only costs $499 (excluding the keyboard)
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Thats what I like about the atom powered devices. Here in the UK I can only find the Surface RT on sale for £399.99 without keyboard. I can only find the ASUS VivoTab Smart on sale for £399.99 without keyboard. Hmm. Battery life is similar. OS feels equally responsive on both devices for Microsoft Store apps. Cost the same. Hopefully we'll see RT devices dropping in price soon. Hardware wise they are hardly different from existing android devices which somehow manage to be far cheaper....
Personally I am saving some money aside for the ASUS VivoTab. The 11" model with a wacom stylus, gorilla glass and a transformer style keyboard dock rather than the Smart (smart keyboard is instead just a bluetooth keyboard which clips into a wallet/case for the tablet, case can also double as a stand).
Asus?
Ryno_666 said:
64GB Pro is a good compromise. It allows you to get rid of your tablet and your laptop and go for an all in 1 solution that can later be expanded via SD card to add additional 128 GB
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I purchased an RT device and felt **** blocked by the ARM architecture, the whole OS is right there, but you can't do anything with it. I waited till the Surface Pro released with plans to buy one, but the battery life sucks. I ended up getting a VivoTab T810C and the dock, then upgraded to Windows 8 Pro to join a domain and it has been perfect. Other than the low res screen (720p, would love to have seen a 1080p option) and occasional lag due to lower power CPU than I'm used to (My old daily driver had a quad core i7, 8gb of ddr3 1333, and a SSD, so a real speed demon) I love this thing. The dock gives an extra 10 or so hours of use plus 2 extra USB ports. Using an adapter to get full sized HDMI, it can run an external monitor. I'd love to see a desktop dock with ethernet and two full sized display outputs, but I'm assuming the dock port doesn't have enough bandwidth.
RT!!!
Go RT, it comes with office, which is at least $100 otherwise. Battery life is better, lighter, etc. I have the RT and love it! Plus its way cheaper, and you can use the microsd. Definitely go RT if you don't absolutely NEED any x86 programs. Plus, no viruses! (which you shouldn't get anyway unless you are on lame sites ?
I bought the Pro and took it back for the RT.
The Pro's battery life was too short for me and the tablet was quite warm while using it.
I had Lightroom installed and it ran quite well. Storage was an issue though so I decided to use Lightroom on my desktop instead and use the RT for the other tasks.
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
My main question is whether or not the RT connects to ad-hoc WiFi like from WMWifiRouter or USB tether? That I think is the only thing keeping me from jumping laptop ship and also ditching my TouchPad.
It runs Windows. Pretty much anything you can do in Windows 8 other than run desktop x86 apps (and even that's being worked on!) can be done in RT. This includes not only connecting to ad-hoc networks, but creating them, bridging them, and (I think; haven't tried yet) even Internet Connection Sharing through them, if you connect it to another network (for example, via a USB Ethernet adapter).
GoodDayToDie said:
It runs Windows. Pretty much anything you can do in Windows 8 other than run desktop x86 apps (and even that's being worked on!) can be done in RT. This includes not only connecting to ad-hoc networks, but creating them, bridging them, and (I think; haven't tried yet) even Internet Connection Sharing through them, if you connect it to another network (for example, via a USB Ethernet adapter).
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I was hoping so, but you never know what some will do to lock their stuff down. All of the WInMo phones are/were capable of the same thing yet we had to hack that in.
Thanks for the info, youve pretty much pushed me the last bit, now i need to go play with one to be sure.
Oh, does anyone know if on Office 2013 Outlook still works like 2007/2010 with POP3? Does 2013 come with Outlook? If not, can i somehow install an older version or setup my email like a cell phone client? I use the 'keep on server for 1 day' feature to synch my phone and computer which auto cleans out my Inbox on my phone. I will not use IMAP so please dont try to convince me.
Office 2013 comes with Outlook in the same editions that Office 2010 or 2007 did. Office RT (the Windows RT port of Office 2013) does not come with Outlook.
Outlook 2013 can use POP3 "correctly" (in quotes because there's no correct way to use a protocol that obsolete and poorly designed) in the same manner as previous versions, yes.
Outlook RT has not yet been released, and may never be. If it is, it will probably cost some money but will almost certainly support POP3.
The default "Windows Mail" (in quotes because it's a travesty compared to the Vista-builtin program of the same name) client on Win8 and Windows RT actually does act as a mobile client, not a desktop one; this can be useful in some situations, but is more often a hassle. It does not (currently) support POP3 and may never.
Out of morbid curiosity, what's your beef with IMAP? It's not an ideal protocol, but it beats POP3 hands-down for a multi-device scenario (things like keeping track between devices of what has and has not been read, access mail sent from one device while on another one, delete from one device and optionally have it removed from all).
My "beef" is for one, its slow and clunky and i keep all my emails on my main PC in one .pst file, which is not my server. Keeping the emails on the server for one day allows me to synch Todays emails only on any phone/device i want and it works flawlessly. I also dont have to manually delete or scroll through a million emails on my phone. I also have multiple accounts which go to Outlook but only 3 that go to my phone and i dont want all of them on my phone.
Basically, it works for me and no one can convince me otherwise
In comparison to your "obsolete" comment the VA Hospital network uses a program built in COBOL and BASIC back in the 70's, yet they still run it today because it still works and is quite solid and havent been able to come up with anything that beats it. So whats wrong with using something that works?
Have you actually looked at the wire traffic for POP3? It's very inefficient. Not sure where you got the idea that IMAP was slow or clunky by comparison. Granted, if you for some reason *really* don't want to store your email on the server, then POP3 works fine (you can use IMAP the same way, but you lose most of its advantages if you do so). Of course, you're hosed if anything ever happens to that single PST file on that single hard drive, so hopefully you make backups regularly (everybody should, anyhow)...
Your phone (or any other half-decent IMAP client) has options to only sync the most recent X number of emails. "... manually delete or scroll through a million emails on my phone..." shows that you've clearly never even looked at an IMAP client closely, much less tried to use one. I set most of my accounts to sync the last two weeks. Oh, that's another thing: why do you mention that you only sync three of your accounts on the phone as though that makes POP3 better? That's actually a downside of POP3, because you'll receive everything in those accounts, with no filtering. With IMAP, you could not only choose which accounts to sync, but which folders *in* those accounts. IMAP lets you automatically (for example) filter out spam from the inbox to another folder (possibly trash), and you'll never see it on the phone at all. Also, with IMAP, you can flag items on your PC for later reading on your phone (or vice versa). Your phone should offer the ability to filter by unread messages, which means that even if you get a lot of mail you can have your phone only show you the ones that you didn't already look at on the PC (with no searching needed on your part at all).
Why compare a network protocol to a hospital mainframe, when there's such a much more obvious apples-to-apples comparison available? Speaking of which, why the heck are you using HTTP and HTML? It's just terribly "slow and clunky" compared to Gopher! Think of all the bandwidth you're wasting with those headers and those markup tags and those images! Yes, sometimes we still use old things. ASCII, for example, is 50+ years old. Of course, so are B&W CRT analogue TVs and vacuum tubes, but I bet you don't still use either of those, either...
Meh, if you're still unconvinced, you're being willfully ignorant at this point, so carry on if you wish. Don't complain when you can't find any stores that still sell buggy whips, though. The world is moving on, and rightly so.
You are hilarious. Just quit derailing the thread. Thanks for pointedly answering my 2 questions though.
GoodDayToDie said:
Have you actually looked at the wire traffic for POP3? It's very inefficient. Not sure where you got the idea that IMAP was slow or clunky by comparison. Granted, if you for some reason *really* don't want to store your email on the server, then POP3 works fine (you can use IMAP the same way, but you lose most of its advantages if you do so). Of course, you're hosed if anything ever happens to that single PST file on that single hard drive, so hopefully you make backups regularly (everybody should, anyhow)...
Your phone (or any other half-decent IMAP client) has options to only sync the most recent X number of emails. "... manually delete or scroll through a million emails on my phone..." shows that you've clearly never even looked at an IMAP client closely, much less tried to use one. I set most of my accounts to sync the last two weeks. Oh, that's another thing: why do you mention that you only sync three of your accounts on the phone as though that makes POP3 better? That's actually a downside of POP3, because you'll receive everything in those accounts, with no filtering. With IMAP, you could not only choose which accounts to sync, but which folders *in* those accounts. IMAP lets you automatically (for example) filter out spam from the inbox to another folder (possibly trash), and you'll never see it on the phone at all. Also, with IMAP, you can flag items on your PC for later reading on your phone (or vice versa). Your phone should offer the ability to filter by unread messages, which means that even if you get a lot of mail you can have your phone only show you the ones that you didn't already look at on the PC (with no searching needed on your part at all).
Why compare a network protocol to a hospital mainframe, when there's such a much more obvious apples-to-apples comparison available? Speaking of which, why the heck are you using HTTP and HTML? It's just terribly "slow and clunky" compared to Gopher! Think of all the bandwidth you're wasting with those headers and those markup tags and those images! Yes, sometimes we still use old things. ASCII, for example, is 50+ years old. Of course, so are B&W CRT analogue TVs and vacuum tubes, but I bet you don't still use either of those, either...
Meh, if you're still unconvinced, you're being willfully ignorant at this point, so carry on if you wish. Don't complain when you can't find any stores that still sell buggy whips, though. The world is moving on, and rightly so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe because not every email provider has IMAP and the Surface RT should be about flexibility. . . I certainly am not going to change my email provider of 5 years because RT can't handle it.
Hi,
is there a displayLink Software for the RT?? I have an Dockingstation with an extern SCreen and i really would like to use it, but this will only work with DisplayLink Software. So is there a solution for the RT??
Thanks a lot
HandyBesitzer said:
Hi,
is there a displayLink Software for the RT?? I have an Dockingstation with an extern SCreen and i really would like to use it, but this will only work with DisplayLink Software. So is there a solution for the RT??
Thanks a lot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope- no DDK for WinRT, so no one can make third-party hardware that doesn't fit the preloaded driver set:
http://www.displaylink.com/support/ticket.php?id=335
Well, no public DDK. There's (quite obviously) an internal one, and it has apparently been shared with certain partners, and a copy of it has leaked onto the Internet and been found (and occasionally used) in various places. That said, even if a commercial outfit were willing to entertain the use of such a thing, they would need to get the resulting driver signed by Microsoft for it to be installable on non-"jailbroken" RT devices.
this signing thing is really terrible. is there a chace to get such a driver in future??
GoodDayToDie said:
Well, no public DDK. There's (quite obviously) an internal one, and it has apparently been shared with certain partners, and a copy of it has leaked onto the Internet and been found (and occasionally used) in various places. That said, even if a commercial outfit were willing to entertain the use of such a thing, they would need to get the resulting driver signed by Microsoft for it to be installable on non-"jailbroken" RT devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, so effectively no DDK for general peripheral manufacturers to use unless MS decides otherwise for that device-- hence the situation with USB Ethernet adapters (and the driver that Plugable released then had to pull).
I'm a bit puzzled by the situation-- if MS' concern is that poor drivers would affect the WinRT user experience, then presumably they could enforce a testing process (as they already have w/ WHQL) and only allow driver delivery through Windows Update.
As it stands, WinRT devices, running full-blown Windows, are ironically far less useful in custom applications than iPads, which have all sorts of accessories available. Why wouldn't MS want WinRT to be usable in, say, medical settings? (even iPhones, let alone iPads, can connect to hardware accessories like medical sensors).
Android's also catching up quickly in the accessories space, and it's only a matter of time before iOS/Android destroy any advantage MS had w/ hardware manufacturers, as happened so dramatically in the software space (there are now so many more devs who've worked with iOS and Android than have with modern MS platforms).
Well, for accessories that just need "traditional" data I/O - things like what you might have done over a serial port in days of yore - you can easily use either BlueTooth or the audio jack (although the latter is a real hack, usually used only for very small dongles powered by the audio signal). The iPad is definitely less extensible with third-party hardware (note, accessorizable != extensible) than RT, but I fully agree with you that Microsoft's stance on RT drivers is just plain weird. Keep the pool smallish and/or WHQL-test the crap out of them, but make them available! Those USB ports can and should be a killer feature.
The audio channels available on many consumer devices are often perfect for bit banging various communications protocols. UART "emulation" has often been done on the headset jack with a level shifter and some trickery, often on android devices much less powerful than the surface RT (seen a demo on an 800MHz single core ARMv6 handset). If your willing to sacrifice audio output from your application on the RT (as it is being used for bit banging the UART) then you essentially have a plug and play serial port without any special drivers needed, your application just needs to be able to generate an audio signal and analyse an input. the peripheral will need an external power supply but this is common on many legacy RS232 applications too.
There is the bluetooth serial port profile. Thats often used as a replacement for RS232 or UART. I dont know if windows RT supports it though (someone would have to check).
Another trick I have seen involves a microcontroller with USB capabilities. I have seen examples of people setting a microcontroller to appear as USB mass storage and having a small file system with 1 plain text file. Writing into this text file from windows or linux etc would then cause the microcontroller to perform a particular operation in response. Sensors can also be read by the microcontroller causing it to update the text file too. You essentially have file based GPIO without.
Its all rather hacky but it works technically.
There is also an i2c bus on the RT keyboard connector.
Android devices are so powerful today, and the hardware is becoming so powerful that I don't think that the software is utilising that.
We already have much of the technology in devices of today to enable a desktop environment to be streamed from our phones.
Display output: Chromecast (wireless display), MHL (Wired display & charger), etc.
Input methods: Bluetooth Keyboard & mouse, Accelerometer (to emulate mouse input), etc.
UI: Separate Launcher for the desktop UI.
With Microsoft bringing Windows 10 later this year as one OS for both the Phone & Desktop, surely that will allow them to work better in sync with one another, but that will still require a separate desktop computer and phone to create this kind of experience.
But Google now has the chance to simply output a separate UI from the same device that can display a phone UI all at the same time.
If we look at past launches of major Android builds then this coming Google I/O would be the perfect time to announce something like this, since they say that they usually deliver one major build that focuses on UI, and then one that focuses on major feature integration.
And not only would this allow for us to take our desktop with us everywhere in our pocket and connect wirelessly to any compatible display but also it could enable people in poorer economies to buy one device which could give them better access to the internet with a portable display integrated into the device, and also they could connect to the larger displays to browse the web or work on office documents with apps such as 'Google Docs'.
This could really be useful for people who wish to use their device in the work place too.
With Android mobile now offering multiple user profiles on their phones, surely they could create one profile for work, with all of their work apps available in both their phone and desktop UI's, but also a personal profile with all of their media applications & games available when out of work.
The desktop tower may still be useful for a few years to enable support for legacy applications whilst we are waiting for those applications to be ported over to Android/Android Desktop, but that shouldn't take too long considering how quickly we are see'ing apps becoming available to Android offering the kind of services that many of us desire, and if the developers only need to create one application back end for both the Desktop mode & phone mode, then it will be much quicker to bring apps to market with a small bit of time required to make a UI which can be scaled between the phone & desktop mode well.
There are multiple projects trying to create this very experience, but if it was a major part of the Android OS then finally people will get the experience that many people are waiting for, you only have to look at the comments on the developer pages of these projects to see that many people want this kind of experience.
With 64-bit now supported in Android too there is less of a reason to hold back this kind of experience.
I agree totally. Is this the only thread on this subject? Was going to setup Chromecast for video and Bluetooth for keyboard, mouse and audio. Doing this on a Jiayu S3A which is very powerful. Would like one place to discuss what works and what doesn't. Launcher options also need to be discussed.