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T-Mobile Mda Vario 4. Woes of a incompetent company

Hey i thought i would share my experience with t mobile so far due to their upgrade blunder::
T-Mobile Customer Relations Mr ###########
[email protected] ###address###
[email protected]
Account Number: ##########
Mobile Number: 07#########
Due to recent as yet unresolved problems I have had from T-Mobile I feel I have no other choice but write this email. the staff I have spoken to have all being very nice on the phone and made promises that as yet have not being fulfilled and the majority of times nothing has being done.
I was informed by my local T-Mobile store on the 23rd of July that T-mobile had stock of the new ‘MDA Vario IV’ and this had being confirmed by other people (see this link   ((see this link   (by the way my user name on this site is spzero)) then the next day I rang up and asked if I could upgrade to the new Vario IV knowing there was some confusion I questioned the member of staff about this and was informed that they did have some in stock and would be sent one out, after posting of my joy on the same site above I read further that people were being lied to about this phone and sent the ‘MDA Compact IV’(  see further proof here in this same thread) I rang back T-Mobile and was informed I had ordered a ‘MDA Compact IV’ despite my conversation verifying which phone I was after. I spoke to a CSA who was helpful and tried to resolve the problem but the phone had being dispatched and all I could do was refuse the delivery she did also say that “many phone companies do similar things she used to work at Orange and informed me they purposefully placed early, incorrect due dates on there systems and website to entice customers, knowing orders could not be fulfilled and by the time a complaint had being made stock would be in and the customer would have got the phone they wanted.” It seams the same thing is going on here at the end of the call she advised she would call me back before the 4th of august as my next statement would be issued if not sorted out then that I would be charged for a higher Tariff that I had agreed to, in order to be able to get the phone I wanted and also would be charged for the phone.
I waited and received no phone call on the 5th of August I received two text messages from T-Mobile one advising my phone had being returned and one advising my available credit for the rest of the month. I rang up to enquire about this immediately as they was much talk time available than expected and assumed I had being charged at the new higher price tariff, I was informed that this was a mistake and my bill would be adjusted when I received it in the post.
A few days later on the 8th of August my Bill turns up for £106.26. This included a £5.95 charge for delivery which I never agreed to and am quite sure was never told about. I rang T-mobile and got thru to a Stephen the line was disconnected instantly and when I called back got the same agent who listened to my problem and then said I will place you on hold while I look at the account but he didn’t give me chance to agree to this or ask if it was ok. While waiting for Stephen to come back I managed to eat my tea that had being prepared and after 10 minutes I was still on hold. I rang back and spoke to Ashley who’s team number was 799. I was told that a credit would be applied to my bill to make up for their error and that it had all being sorted and asked if they could help further I asked what my bill would be with the credit and was told £99.27 I couldn’t understand this as I had returned the phone and had a text message to confirm safe receipt and the tariff had supposedly being adjusted (My previous tariff was about £35.00 a month and I rarely used any texts or calls above my free allowance. In fact the only charges outside of my price plan was for £0.68 for call charges.) and as I had previously requested a cheaper tariff knew they was no valid reason for my bill to be above £30.00.
My call was transferred to another agent I was told by Ashley she would advise what my call was regarding and give the agent my account details, I was transferred to a CSA called Mark in the Ready 2 team who had no idea what the call was regarding and didn’t have my details so I had to confirm security questions again, after this Mark was able to help I was told to cancel my Direct Debit at my bank as he was not sure if it would take the £106.26 or the new adjusted amount he was processing, I was also told to wait 3 days and my bill would be corrected and could pay the new amount with a debit card over the phone and cancel my account as by this time I was that upset with the service I no longer wanted to deal with T-mobile again.
On the 12th I received a call from T-mobile but as was at work missed it I rang back and was told there was no information on my account as to who had called or what it was in relation to I was also told my current balance still hadn’t being adjusted but as it had not yet being 3 working days I decided to wait. The next day I received a further call and answered this and was asked if I was interested in T-Mobile’s fantastic Mobile Broadband and declined to accept the offer due to all the problems I have had and that I already had a similar service from 3.
When I got home today (The 14th of August) as I was unsure if my account had being sorted I rang T-Mobile to check (this shows on my phone the call was made at 5:15pm) I was advised by the automated service that my balance was still at the £99.27. I then spoke to spoke to mark on team 718 and asked to speak to a team leader, he refused to put me thru and wanted to know what I was calling about. I advised that due to the way my problem had being handled I didn’t want to speak to a CSA again but I wanted to speak to a manager and I knew my legal rights concerning this as I work in a call centre he still refused to transfer me and continued to ask what it was regarding I said if he checked the notes it should indicate what the problem was regarding, he looked at the notes and advised the last two calls showed I had called up and asked for my balance and the second time asked for my Direct Debit to be cancelled but no other notes so he was clueless, as the two previous calls on the system were lengthy complaints and took some time I was surprised at the lack of any further information. He checked back at other notes and advised me that a credit was going to be applied to my account at my next bill date, I advised that this would mean in order for me to pay my account this month and not miss a payment I was having to pay for their error as the only reason I took the new Phone and Tariff was because I was lied to at the outset about the availability of a phone, I don’t mind paying for my call time and text usage but I don’t see why I should pay for T-Mobiles error. He didn’t respond to this and advised they have their processes and no one can credit my account before my next bill date. A asked why I had already being credited a refund that was showing on my account as my bill had reduced and again no real answer was given just that it was a credit for delivery and this was different to the credit of a handset and tariff adjustment. As I used to work for o2 and currently work in a call centre I know how things should work and I know some one can sort this problem out and place a credit on my phone account now, but I was told by Mark that it would not happen as no one was able to do this in the end after going in circles I again asked to speak to a team leader, manager or whoever could help me and was informed I would be called back by a Team leader as none were available, in between one and two hours. Due to these problems I asked for an email address I could complain to and was advised of the one above, then I was informed that this department could credit my account and sort all my problems out but no telephone number was available and all communication had to be by email or post. I advised Mark that I was going out and needed the manager call back ASAP. When I returned home my phone showed just one missed call which was made at 8:12 so again I was given wrong information as this was actually over two and a half hours after my request.
Due to the way I have being treated as a paying customer and the fact that I have repeatedly being lied to over the phone by and that my account has not being updated I find no other alternative but to send this email which shows the underhanded tactics that T-Mobile is using and despite myself and others advising of the lies in regards to stock of the new phone fact the blunders, thru either lack of training or blatant dishonesty, continue (just read the following forum threads in full from xda-developers.com same links as above) It also seams the same pattern of lies happened with the release of the Vario III and Compact III.
I hope some one can sort my statement out as at the moment I am being charged for a mistake that T-Mobile has made due to lies or marketing strategy and this seams to not just be an operator error but a marketing scam in order to hold on to customers and entice new one’s and I think this should not be tolerated by paying customers and I expect my account to be sorted out so I can have the privilege of never having to deal with such a company in the future. Also due to the now many hours of my time in writing this email and speaking to staff I expect compensation or this matter will be taken further
PS this information has being posted on the internet where no doubt all those wanting to buy your new phone will be warned of what a terrible company you are and no doubt purchase the o2 xda diamond pro (which is the same phone just renamed

Just sent the email awaiting reply the amount of misinformation from this company is amazing lets see what happens

Wow that's some email! lol. I've been on the phone with t-mobile and the dude said to me late august or september, but most likely september.
Looks like I'll be getting it with t-mobile- they seem like the only people that have half descent data add ons. will probably be getting it on "Combi 40 + web'n'walk (18 months)" for £40.50 a month + £5 extra for "Mobile Broadband Plus (3GB fair use)"
The way I justify spending £45.50 a month on a phone is that after the 18 months it'll have cost me £819. so if you take away the £500 cost of the phone it works out at £17.72 a month for; 1000 minutes, unlimited txt and 3GB of HSDPA- or does anyone see a flaw in my plan? lol.

adamdon89 said:
Wow that's some email! lol. I've been on the phone with t-mobile and the dude said to me late august or september, but most likely september.
Looks like I'll be getting it with t-mobile- they seem like the only people that have half descent data add ons. will probably be getting it on "Combi 40 + web'n'walk (18 months)" for £40.50 a month + £5 extra for "Mobile Broadband Plus (3GB fair use)"
The way I justify spending £45.50 a month on a phone is that after the 18 months it'll have cost me £819. so if you take away the £500 cost of the phone it works out at £17.72 a month for; 1000 minutes, unlimited txt and 3GB of HSDPA- or does anyone see a flaw in my plan? lol.
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3gb limit and restricted to fair use thats the worse deal ever go with o2 they have much better deals and i bet most other networks do too.
Now most networks offer unlimited data, 18 months ago only t-mobile did as far as i know which is why i moved to them from my o2 staff tariff with 50% off, but all the other networks do and i think at a better price. o2 do it as a add on for £5.00 a month or they were doing a deal on any 18 month contract you could choose a free add on so either unlimited data, texts or o2 to landline and o2 to o2 calls.. much better than t-mobile. o2 are releaseing the Raphael as o2 xda diamond pro... just a matter of waiting for release like i would be doing with t-mobile. long live o2..

spzero said:
3gb limit and restricted to fair use thats the worse deal ever go with o2 they have much better deals and i bet most other networks do too.
Now most networks offer unlimited data, 18 months ago only t-mobile did as far as i know which is why i moved to them from my o2 staff tariff with 50% off, but all the other networks do and i think at a better price. o2 do it as a add on for £5.00 a month or they were doing a deal on any 18 month contract you could choose a free add on so either unlimited data, texts or o2 to landline and o2 to o2 calls.. much better than t-mobile. o2 are releaseing the Raphael as o2 xda diamond pro... just a matter of waiting for release like i would be doing with t-mobile. long live o2..
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O2 maybe good with the unlimited data but their call minutes are poor. I have been looking at all of the companies and T-Mobile's minutes are good and it will mean that I will have to change to a 18 month contract. But the only other provider that may come close is 3. But are they going to offer the touch pro?

spzero said:
3gb limit and restricted to fair use thats the worse deal ever go with o2 they have much better deals and i bet most other networks do too.
Now most networks offer unlimited data, 18 months ago only t-mobile did as far as i know which is why i moved to them from my o2 staff tariff with 50% off, but all the other networks do and i think at a better price. o2 do it as a add on for £5.00 a month or they were doing a deal on any 18 month contract you could choose a free add on so either unlimited data, texts or o2 to landline and o2 to o2 calls.. much better than t-mobile. o2 are releaseing the Raphael as o2 xda diamond pro... just a matter of waiting for release like i would be doing with t-mobile. long live o2..
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I don't know I did some digging around and it looks like all the networks now have really bad fair usage apart from t-mobile atm.
O2's "Unlimited Web Bolt On":
A fair usage policy applies and average monthly usage is expected to be below 200MB...
Vodafone's "Mobile Internet and email pack":
Subject to a fair use limit of 500mb per month...
Orange's "Orange World Monthly Access":
The Offer provides 250 MB data browsing...
It looks like everywhere you go it's gona be useless data add ons for £5/7.50 a month :/

"3" have the best value unlimited data packages.
Personally I'm on Vodafone who are woeful in the UK for data packages, but I struggle for a signal in my little corner of London with other networks...

update! So my automated response from T-Mobile advised i would be contacted in 3 working days or an email sent.. well they have half an hour to sort out my problem. i did get a call this morning from someone in cust services bu as i havea job was not able to discuss my account she asked when to call back and i said i had a lunch break at 1.30 so at 3.15 or something i got a call again unabe to discuss but she appologised for the delay and arranged to call me back when i had finnished work @ 4.00 so no call im now on a train wit intermitent signal so unlikely to get a call even if she tries and i did advise i would be on a train and th time to call.. well the girl dealing Danielle finnishes soon so once agin seems like they are full lies and empty promises..... this is disgraceful and i am shocked at the disgraceful service or lack of it so far........ will up date if they ever sort any thing out

Any news on your dilema from T-Mobile?

Do have to make a side note that my experiences with the Dutch T-Mobile have been outstanding.
They did not try to con my into taking the wrong phone and the girl was well aware that it would be out late august at earliest.
Difference was that i was more interested in getting her number and the end of contract stuff.
Eventually i got the HTC branded version from an online shop.

Noonski said:
Do have to make a side note that my experiences with the Dutch T-Mobile have been outstanding.
They did not try to con my into taking the wrong phone and the girl was well aware that it would be out late august at earliest.
Difference was that i was more interested in getting her number and the end of contract stuff.
Eventually i got the HTC branded version from an online shop.
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Joker! Did you get her number? I'll be trying to get that friends and family discount.

Noonski said:
Do have to make a side note that my experiences with the Dutch T-Mobile have been outstanding.
They did not try to con my into taking the wrong phone and the girl was well aware that it would be out late august at earliest.
Difference was that i was more interested in getting her number and the end of contract stuff.
Eventually i got the HTC branded version from an online shop.
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Is that what they mean by customer care then ?

adamdon89 said:
O2's "Unlimited Web Bolt On":
A fair usage policy applies and average monthly usage is expected to be below 200MB...
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Did you read that on the expansys site by any chance?... old information! I believe O2 have now changed their terms for this bolt on, and don't specify a limit anymore! Read page 2 of this thread and you'll see what I mean. It would certainly make sense for O2 to offer a good data plan so that they can shift their iphone 3G's!
I'm currently on a "solo" sim only contract with T-Mobile, but I'm in the process of transferring to O2 as they're currently doing a great "simplicity" pay monthly package, which at the moment has a special offer £5 off the monthly fee (offer expires end of August). It comes with the unlimited text bolt on, but there's an option before purchase to change it to the unlimited web bolt on, and if you do that you'll end up with 600 mins (any network), 1000 texts, and unlimited web for £20 a month I don't think any network can beat this offer.
Anyway regarding the fair usage policy, if O2 do claim my data usage is too excessive (which I doubt will happen), I'll just go straight back to T-Mobile again. The great thing about sim only deals is that they only have a 30 day contract, so they're easy to get out of. The downside of course is because they're sim only you won't ever get an upgrade deal from your network - you'll have to buy a sim-free handset or a pay as you go handset on your network and chuck away the sim card that it comes with.
P.S. Thanks to EViS for pointing out that great O2 offer to me

I understand what your saying, but without a subsidy you are looking at £500 for the phone, that is equivalent to nearly £30 per month over 18 months. meaining your total monthly is around £50 per month ! where as on T-mob you will probably get the phone + unlimited data +more mins and more texts for the same amount

RavenY2K3 said:
Any news on your dilema from T-Mobile?
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Hey yeah i got a call yesterday from Danielle while on the train so signal kept dropping couldnt have a real conversation. but
So far my balance has being wipped off and i am due a call back on tuesday to discuss my other problems in the email. i would imagine Danielle will read this as she is monitoring my account so what should i ask for in compensationto give her a heads up here are some ideas a pre-release vario VI??? a htc diamond pro (its the same phone BTW just incase you are reading this but its already released) lots of money??? never to have to speak to t-mobile again ?? Any better answers on a postcard??????
To be honest i dont know if i want to keep my contract even if they do offer me a great deal but i would have my price......................

Got a call today from Danielle again offered me an extra months line rental as credit and said if i stay with them she could offer a line rental discount for the future and a largely reduced handset, but when i said i wanted the vario 4 was told non in stock so i said i wanted to cancel my contract and was told i couldnt as i had just upgraded my phone..... i almost went mad with her she should know by now i didnt upgrade but that the company she works for had lied to me to agree to an upgrade and it was returned its quite funny really, she did say tho that my complaint had gone right to the directors and will be looked into so who knows maybe they will stop the madness,, by no means a great outcome but at least its something..

I'm just about managing to sit tight with T-Mobile UK despite thier incompetencies. How hard can it be to say "it's in testing, not sure when it'll be ready". Even that would be better than "dunno - not on my system". Just makes me think of David Walliams saying "Computer says no".
What does slightly concern me though is that my advertised upgrade price to the Compact IV is £100. What the hell does that mean the Vario IV is going to cost me?
I fear some hardcore haggling may be in order.
It's starting to get the point when I need a new phone badly. My Vario II is dying a slow and very apparent death. If the Vario IV doesn't come soon I might have to give up and jump to the Compact IV. Damn shame that would be - I love a keyboard on my phone. Had one since my O2 XDA IIs. What will I do without it?
Come on T-Mobile - sort yourselves out!

dom_mitchell1 said:
I'm just about managing to sit tight with T-Mobile UK despite thier incompetencies. How hard can it be to say "it's in testing, not sure when it'll be ready". Even that would be better than "dunno - not on my system". Just makes me think of David Walliams saying "Computer says no".
What does slightly concern me though is that my advertised upgrade price to the Compact IV is £100. What the hell does that mean the Vario IV is going to cost me?
I fear some hardcore haggling may be in order.
It's starting to get the point when I need a new phone badly. My Vario II is dying a slow and very apparent death. If the Vario IV doesn't come soon I might have to give up and jump to the Compact IV. Damn shame that would be - I love a keyboard on my phone. Had one since my O2 XDA IIs. What will I do without it?
Come on T-Mobile - sort yourselves out!
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Hold out my friend only a couple more weeks T-Mobile are building up hype for the phone so that they can sell more. I think that it will come out in September within the first two weeks they like to release at least one new phone a month and this one will be a big seller until they release the gphone the following month.

T-Mobile really have no business sense. I am due an upgrade and would like the MDA Vario IV / HTC Touch Pro. They can't tell me when the Vario is out and they wont cut me a deal if I get the touch pro off a reseller even though expansys seem to think it's worth their time offering it on my current contract at £2.50 cheaper a month for £110! Rather than give me a similar deal t-mobile'd rather lose a customer it seems ( and make me wait for my new phone ), they're even asking for £100 just to upgrade to the diamond/compact! I don't see the logic :S
I'm tempted to get it off vodaphone business when it's out later this month, if anything just to not stay with t-mobile! (Also although vodaphones coverage sucks they have good contracts and in some places support 6.8mbps 3g).
I feel sorry for anyone else trying to get this phone without paying the £496rrp lol

Just got woken up by a tmobile rep at a store to tell me the reason why the vario 4 isnt out yet is because the device is currently over heating and HTC need to fix this issue before they sell them
I don't know weather this is true or not but it sounds a bit far fetched for a device that's meant to be technically identical to the touch pro.
I dunno maybe there changing hardware specs as well...
Oh and exspansys deals are not fair the contracts are 5-10 quid more expensive per month for the equivalent deals on o2s shop and website.
And untill exspansys changes the details on the site i have to assume the data package does have a 200 mb FUP

Let's Talk has The Fuze!!!

Sorry to start another thread, but I just wanted to give everyone a heads up that Let's Talk now has The Fuze. I have been waiting to see if it would pop up there or on Amazon first. I bought it through the Walmart website. You can get the phone for either $99 or free. The free option requires you to start out with a voice plan of at least $59.99. The $99 option let's you choose a voice plan of $39.99. Although, both options make you get a data plan, but I was going to get one anyway. My total price (tax and all) was 195.53 before the $50 mail-in rebate. I'm very happy, and can finally stop wasting time at work.

I was going to upgrade through them, but they told me something completely laughable. You can upgrade a family plan, but EVERY LINE ON YOUR PLAN BEGINS A NEW 2 YEAR CONTRACT!!!
I was like, what're you ****ing kidding me? That'd be five 2 year contracts to get a cheaper upgrade, thanks but no thanks.

I tried this with my 4-line family plan. The configurator allowed me to get two of them free and two lesser phones free of charge. None of my lines are currently under contract... I am finding it hard to see the drawbacks to this.

Black93300ZX said:
I was going to upgrade through them, but they told me something completely laughable. You can upgrade a family plan, but EVERY LINE ON YOUR PLAN BEGINS A NEW 2 YEAR CONTRACT!!!
I was like, what're you ****ing kidding me? That'd be five 2 year contracts to get a cheaper upgrade, thanks but no thanks.
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Was this a representative that told you that or on the internet because it sounds completely inane :O?
If you talked with somebody, i'd try to give it another go.

Interesting, if there is a way to do this without extending all the contracts on the line I'll take mine back to the AT&T store. You can do this in store right?

The website states that whether you upgrade one line or all lines there will be a new 2yr contract for all lines in a family plan.

blkjack74 said:
Sorry to start another thread, but I just wanted to give everyone a heads up that Let's Talk now has The Fuze. I have been waiting to see if it would pop up there or on Amazon first. I bought it through the Walmart website. You can get the phone for either $99 or free. The free option requires you to start out with a voice plan of at least $59.99. The $99 option let's you choose a voice plan of $39.99. Although, both options make you get a data plan, but I was going to get one anyway. My total price (tax and all) was 195.53 before the $50 mail-in rebate. I'm very happy, and can finally stop wasting time at work.
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The upgrade price is $249.99. Be careful when dealing with LetsTalk. They have different terms and conditions in addition to AT&T's that are more strict. You MUST have a data plan to get this deal, and MUST have the data plan active for at least 6 months, or they will charge your credit/debit card at least $250.00.

I maybe retarded but I can't find how to upgrade 1 line on a family plan. It never gives me the option of choosing one line, just selecting a plan. If I select the family plan that I have it asks me to add at least 2 phones to complete the order.
Any ideas on upgrading just one line on an existing plan? Thanks.

Hmm...I just went through the LetsTalk procedure and it's telling me that, with an upgrade, you can get two Fuzes completely free? If this is true, I'm running immediately back to the store and returning this $350 dollar one.

htcfan78 said:
The upgrade price is $249.99. Be careful when dealing with LetsTalk. They have different terms and conditions in addition to AT&T's that are more strict. You MUST have a data plan to get this deal, and MUST have the data plan active for at least 6 months, or they will charge your credit/debit card at least $250.00.
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Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully I won't have any issues, as I was already planning on getting a data plan. If anything "weird" happens, I'll be sure to let everyone know.

Just a head's up. I have been with AT&T for years. Simply put, purchasing ANYTHING from letstalk.com is like walking into a mexican brothel without a condom. I have read many situation regarding these people, they are 100% sales driven. For those not wanting to believe me, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE read ALL the fine print. You might save a little now but 80% of the time you will spend much more later.
This has been a public service announcement from KD8DNS

I too have been with ATT for many years, and read of many angry stories related to orders from them. I have ordered from them twice in the past and have not had any trouble either time, BUT... I agree with KD8DNS, there is an expansive amount of fine print with many rules that govern the purchase. Read this twice even three times, so that you won't be one of the many complaining in 6 months that Letstalk charged you $250 per line because you violated terms.

yea...
This looks too good to be true...
I am moving from T-Mobile and need my number ported...
I am planning on getting a hefty voice and data plan anyway, so that shouldn't be any issue...I need the data plan for work and I pay a arm and leg to T-Mobile now so over $100 is par for the course.
I think I am going to wait to see if this comes through for someone else...signing up for new service on ATT, they say that I am only going to have to pay $99, and get a $99 rebate after 6 mos of service...that is not a big deal, but getting the phone for free really seems too good to be true!
BTW, I have been looking to jump from T-Mobile for quite some time now as I need a WM phone on a 3G network and Sprint/Verizon service leaves something to be desired in my area...
I mean, come on...$99 out of my pocket for this phone???? And I get that back with a rebate after having service for 6 mos????
That is just crazy...seems way too good to be true.

I don't get it how people have problems with Letstalk. I have ordered twice from them and had a great experience. The rule is
You can NOT downgrade your plan and you can not be late on your bill. If you do that for 6 months, it is a great deal.

Simply put: If you take the LetsTalk deal, you cannot alter your account in any way for 6 mos. If you move and have to change your number that may cause your rebate to be rejected even worse they may charge you the $250 I mentioned earlier. If you are stable and the features you select are fine for 6 mo. it may be worth it. It is not really to good to be true. They make the bulk of their money in commissions paid by AT&T. However, the commissions are tied to you living up to your commitment to them/AT&T. I have ordered from them before without issue, but I admit that i am a rare breed. If you decide to take the plunge, just know what you are getting into.

aadadams said:
Simply put: If you take the LetsTalk deal, you cannot alter your account in any way for 6 mos. If you move and have to change your number that may cause your rebate to be rejected even worse they may charge you the $250 I mentioned earlier. If you are stable and the features you select are fine for 6 mo. it may be worth it. It is not really to good to be true. They make the bulk of their money in commissions paid by AT&T. However, the commissions are tied to you living up to your commitment to them/AT&T. I have ordered from them before without issue, but I admit that i am a rare breed. If you decide to take the plunge, just know what you are getting into.
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Yea, that fits me to a tee...
I have done the research and know what I want...I am not going to alter my account at all. I am not going to move at all.
They don't have them in stock though...backordered...D'OH!

It's also only good for new contracts or porting from another carrier. It's $250 for existing ATT customers with a 2 year contract extension.

I already bought my fuze through the At&t store. Can I return it to take advantage of this freebie deal Let's Talk has? What it he penalty for returning it?
I was an out of contract, upgrade available customer. So I ended up getting my phone for 260.

Thresher said:
I already bought my fuze through the At&t store. Can I return it to take advantage of this freebie deal Let's Talk has? What it he penalty for returning it?
I was an out of contract, upgrade available customer. So I ended up getting my phone for 260.
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I took mine back and all that I had to pay was $20.00 a restocking fee. The rest of the fees were all reimbursed. I was told by the 800# that it is up to each store whether they charge the $20.00 dollar restocking fee. The store I went to did.
I bought our family plan almost 2 years ago from Letstalk.com and it was a great experience. I have not changed out plan at all other than changing phones and data/text plans. But the base talk plan has stayed the same.
Jeff

I was actually considering buying from letstalk.com. I have my fuze that I bought yesterday all packed up like it's new and I'm returning it first thing. They also said that if you're returning and it has no problems, they'll take $20. If it has a problem, they'll waive that fee for you. But what's up with this part in LetsTalk's Terms and Conditions? :S
If you extend your contract length on a family plan, all lines will be extended.
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Sick of Rogers and want to get out of your contract early and avoid all cancellation

So I got this little gem from reddit, and thought I would post it here and see what people think:
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/09/01/cwta-wireless-code-conduct.html
Calling to cancel your contract before they make changes will not work. When my friend got out of his contract he said you have to wait for the bill to show up in the mail showing the change to your service. Once the change appears you have 30 days to cancel. This works, believe it or not even if they REDUCE the price of your service. Another website pointed out that another guy got out of his contract when they raised his late fees, something he said he never used. The bottom line is that ANY change to your contract is reason enough to cancel, it's the law.
How this change affects your contract depends on when you signed.
Be aware that when you do this they may drop you as a client the second you hang up the phone so have a backup plan ready.
7 Ways to get out of your contract: http://www.cellout.ca/how-to-get-out-of-contract-early.php
Another quick read showing you can get out early if they change your service.
http://www.thebruns.ca/content/2009-01/how-escape-your-cellphone-contract
It's all about what words you chose to use, remember you are shorting this company of money and they will do anything they can to keep you. Read this article over thoroughly to ensure you're using the correct lexicon when speaking to a supervisor.
http://www.cellphones.ca/news/post002721/
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What do you guys think? Viable?

AT&T FAQ

Hello, I am opening this thread so that I may convey some info to you guys about how things work at AT&T Mobility, more importantly about the upcoming HSPA+ and data packages.
Some abbreviations:
COR = Corporate Retail Store
CARE = Customer Service
OLAM = Online Account Manager
How do I find out if I'm eligible to upgrade?
There are several ways to do this, be it going to a COR store, calling CARE, or checking OLAM. However, the easiest way is to check with the star command *NEW#, or *639#. Just call that number and you will soon receive a text message letting you know your upgrade eligibility.
Note: Will not work on some accounts (Notably business accounts) and if you have a balance on your account.
Is there any other handy star commands?
Yes:
*DATA# (Data Usage, Including Messaging Usage)
*BAL# (Account Balance Info)
*PAY# (Bill Payment)
*MIN# (Minutes Balance, Including Rollover)
I have Unlimited Data, will I get to keep it if I upgrade to an Inspire?
If you have the old MediaMax plan, no. However, you should be offered the old/new $30 Unlimited Smartphone Data Plan.
If you have the old/new $30 Unlimited Smartphone Data Plan, yes.
If you have the $10 Unlimited Quick Messaging/Basic Data Plan, then you will have to move to one of the new smartphone plans, Data Plus or Data Pro.
What if I'm not eligible to upgrade but still want the Inspire?
Well, your best bet is to buy it at full retail price. However, there is something else that is offered called an exception upgrade. ALL of these need to apply to you to be able to have an exception upgrade.
- Last upgrade date must be at least 6 months from today.
- Only one exception upgrade per contract length.
- No balance on the account.
- Can only exception upgrade at COR or CARE. (Revision Possible)
An exception upgrade will add $75 to the 2 year contract price of a Quick Messaging/Basic phone and $200 to a Smartphone.
Your other option is to add a stripped down line, suck up the $10 a month, and use that phone on your current line.
Can I use another line's upgrade for me?
Yes. As long as you are an authorized user you may.
Can I use another account's upgrade for me?
Technically, no. However, it all depends on that particular representative or manager. But, nothing is stopping you to upgrade one account, drive to another store, and activating the phones on their respective lines. Or switching SIM cards.
I'm available to upgrade but Radio Shack/Best Buy/Wirefly, etc. has it for much cheaper, will AT&T price match?
Once again it depends on representative/manager but short answer, no. AT&T will only price match on new lines/accounts, not upgrades. Why this is I have no idea and I believe it's a bad business practice but I'm not the boss.
Now, if you're adding a line or getting a new account, AT&T will price match a printed advertisement. However, you might get the manager to approve a Wirefly, Amazon, etc. price.
My phone broke by itself and it's within a year of the original purchase date, what should I do?
Depends on a lot of factors. If you purchased it somewhere other than at COR, CARE,or OLAM you need to follow that particular business' return policy.
If purchased at COR or CARE, and it's within 30 days of the original purchase date, take it back to COR (Even if purchased at CARE or OLAM) and they will do an in house warranty replacement.
If it's past the 30 day window, don't even bother going to COR or calling CARE, they will both redirect you to our Warranty Department which you can call at 1-800-801-1101.
I broke/wet/dropped my phone, what should I do?
If you have insurance on your plan, then call our Insurance Department (Asurion) at 1-888-562-8662.
Once again, do not bother going to COR or calling CARE, they will just direct you to the proper department. Also, don't try to play us as fools, you know what you did, and we will figure it out too.
If you don't have insurance, well....
Feel free to ask me any questions and I will add them accordingly.

Reserved for OP.

Also reserved for OP.

Question; Am I right to understand that I can get the old $30 unlimited plan back? The one that includes all data and messaging? I used to have this but then AT&T switched me to the $25/mo plan with no warning a while back, after having had it for almost a year.

wraithevolution said:
Question; Am I right to understand that I can get the old $30 unlimited plan back? The one that includes all data and messaging? I used to have this but then AT&T switched me to the $25/mo plan with no warning a while back, after having had it for almost a year.
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Yes and no. There are some ways for you to get this back, but I beleive only Tier II CARE can do this. It also depends on a lot of factors, like how long ago you "lost" it, what CARE rep you speak with, how long you've been a customer, how you treat the CARE rep, if your account is in good standing with us, etc.
Don't bother going into COR, it's my understanding that the ability to "recover" the unlimited data has been removed from all COR employees, including managers.

danielsaenz said:
Yes and no. There are some ways for you to get this back, but I beleive only Tier II CARE can do this. It also depends on a lot of factors, like how long ago you "lost" it, what CARE rep you speak with, how long you've been a customer, how you treat the CARE rep, if your account is in good standing with us, etc.
Don't bother going into COR, it's my understanding that the ability to "recover" the unlimited data has been removed from all COR employees, including managers.
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Well what is the easiest way to get to a Tier II rep.
I called today inquiring about the Inspire and an unlimited data plan and had no luck. I even went as far as asking how much early termination fee was as unlimited data was a must for me to buy the Inspire.
I am starting to think the best option will be to buy an unlocked Telus DHD and just continue to use my $10 Family unlimited plan as I do with my Hero.

You mentioned upgrading from a MediaMax plan.
I'm not sure if mine qualifies or not. I currently own a Samsung Eternity that I got on contract two years ago, and I opted for unlimited data. My AT&T account is calling it "Data Unlimited for non-smartphones." Because this was from two years ago, I think it's a mediamax plan, but the account online doesn't have that in the name. Does that count?
I would be really disappointed both paying more for internet and being capped.

danielsaenz said:
What if I'm not eligible to upgrade but still want the Inspire?[/B]
Well, your best bet is to buy it at full retail price. However, there is something else that is offered called an exception upgrade. ALL of these need to apply to you to be able to have an exception upgrade.
- Last upgrade date must be at least 6 months from today.
- Only one exception upgrade per contract length.
- No balance on the account.
- Can only exception upgrade at COR or CARE.
Thats not true. Just to clear things up, you can exception upgrade at an authorized dealer and kiosk
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dsmkrt said:
You mentioned upgrading from a MediaMax plan.
I'm not sure if mine qualifies or not. I currently own a Samsung Eternity that I got on contract two years ago, and I opted for unlimited data. My AT&T account is calling it "Data Unlimited for non-smartphones." Because this was from two years ago, I think it's a mediamax plan, but the account online doesn't have that in the name. Does that count?
I would be really disappointed both paying more for internet and being capped.
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MediaMax is the old iPhone plans that bundled a messaging bundle with unlimited data for a lower price. What you have is the $10 unlimited data for Quick Messaging/Basic Data.

Evilspawn said:
danielsaenz said:
What if I'm not eligible to upgrade but still want the Inspire?[/B]
Well, your best bet is to buy it at full retail price. However, there is something else that is offered called an exception upgrade. ALL of these need to apply to you to be able to have an exception upgrade.
- Last upgrade date must be at least 6 months from today.
- Only one exception upgrade per contract length.
- No balance on the account.
- Can only exception upgrade at COR or CARE.
Thats not true. Just to clear things up, you can exception upgrade at an authorized dealer and kiosk
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As far as I know, you can't. Either that or they would have to call CARE, which means CARE is handling it not the retailer. At the store I work at we always receive people from Best Buy, Radio Shack, Walmart, Sam's, etc. that were referred by them to us for an exception upgrade.
If you show me proof from an AT&T source, then I will change it. I want this to be the most accurate info as possible, and thank you for your contribution.
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While I am sure that this wont be definitive enough proof for you, I am the manager of an authorized retailer (Agent) store, and we do exception upgrades all the time. It might be dependant on the market in question, and I know for a fact that National Retailers (Big Box Stores) cannot do exception upgrades. We also do not have to go through CARE to process it, we process it directly through POSII
Chris

that $5 a month insurance
how exactly does this work? i upgraded an Inspire. she ended up bulldozin me on $25 a month for 2gb data, that is going to run out before a month does it seems.. will need some behavior modification i see.
she asked me do i want insurance for $5 a month.. i said yes. seems like i've been payin insurance since the cingular 8125, thru the ATT Fuze, and into the Inspire 4g and never brought it in for claim.
now i've got this phone, and its very difficult to hold, has some kinda glass screen that was not present on the last two windows phones.. i can forsee this one takin a smash (and i've been a phone enabled pool jumper before and summer's comin)
so how does it work?
no-questions-asked-i-hit-it-with-a-hammer-on-purpose insurance?
or more like
you-dropped-it-and-it's-in-a-million-pieces-but-we-glued-it-back-together-and-found-out-you-rooted-it-so-yer-SOL?
more specifically:
i am rooted. will this ever affect insurance claim? i mean i'm not going to bring it in claiming software issues obviously.. but what if i pool jump? do i need to rice-and-hairdry just to unroot just to get insurance claim approved?

If you ever need to do a claim and it's a total loss, not a warranty claim (so you're actually paying the deductible), just say the phone was lost. There, problem solved. You dont have to return anything and they send you a new refurb device for what, $150?

wdkingery said:
how exactly does this work? i upgraded an Inspire. she ended up bulldozin me on $25 a month for 2gb data, that is going to run out before a month does it seems.. will need some behavior modification i see.
she asked me do i want insurance for $5 a month.. i said yes. seems like i've been payin insurance since the cingular 8125, thru the ATT Fuze, and into the Inspire 4g and never brought it in for claim.
now i've got this phone, and its very difficult to hold, has some kinda glass screen that was not present on the last two windows phones.. i can forsee this one takin a smash (and i've been a phone enabled pool jumper before and summer's comin)
so how does it work?
no-questions-asked-i-hit-it-with-a-hammer-on-purpose insurance?
or more like
you-dropped-it-and-it's-in-a-million-pieces-but-we-glued-it-back-together-and-found-out-you-rooted-it-so-yer-SOL?
more specifically:
i am rooted. will this ever affect insurance claim? i mean i'm not going to bring it in claiming software issues obviously.. but what if i pool jump? do i need to rice-and-hairdry just to unroot just to get insurance claim approved?
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For starters, you can take your phone out of your pocket before you jump into a pool.
If that doesn't work, you can unroot the phone. It isn't any tougher than rooting, in fact, it's probably easier.
If the phone is in a condition to where they would be able to check for root, then yes, you need to make the effort to get it back in a returnable state, which is totally possible and feasible, if you want a replacement phone.
It's pretty common knowledge that rooting a phone voids your warranty, but only if you present it to them in that state can they know its been rooted.
If the phone explodes into pieces, how are they going to get it back to a state where they'd be able to discover you rooted? It would cost them more money and trouble to go through that bull**** than it would to give you a new damn phone, ya know?
Inspire 4G ¦ XDA Premium

wdkingery said:
how exactly does this work? i upgraded an Inspire. she ended up bulldozin me on $25 a month for 2gb data, that is going to run out before a month does it seems.. will need some behavior modification i see.
she asked me do i want insurance for $5 a month.. i said yes. seems like i've been payin insurance since the cingular 8125, thru the ATT Fuze, and into the Inspire 4g and never brought it in for claim.
now i've got this phone, and its very difficult to hold, has some kinda glass screen that was not present on the last two windows phones.. i can forsee this one takin a smash (and i've been a phone enabled pool jumper before and summer's comin)
so how does it work?
no-questions-asked-i-hit-it-with-a-hammer-on-purpose insurance?
or more like
you-dropped-it-and-it's-in-a-million-pieces-but-we-glued-it-back-together-and-found-out-you-rooted-it-so-yer-SOL?
more specifically:
i am rooted. will this ever affect insurance claim? i mean i'm not going to bring it in claiming software issues obviously.. but what if i pool jump? do i need to rice-and-hairdry just to unroot just to get insurance claim approved?
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Honestly i wouldn't get the ATT insurance at all its overpriced and the deduct. is over priced... www.squaretrade.com FTW no questions asked including water damage. oh ATT will not fix a Watered phone. so you will be SOL on that. Oh.. in all honestly they legally can't deny your claim if you have a rooted phone.. case in point Jehot vs apple = fcc saying rooting/jailbreaking is legal and services can not be terminated for that

Hi, I'm having issues with my HTC Aria. I believe it to be an issue with the microphone, since whenever I make or receive calls, I'm able to hear the person on the other line but they are unable to hear me. The phone is still within the 1-year warranty period. After contacting the AT&T Warranty Department, they told me that they'd send me a replacement phone and to send my defective phone back. Do I need to worry about unrooting my phone first? I have read conflicting information on different forums. Thanks very much for the clarification.

moka4219 said:
Hi, I'm having issues with my HTC Aria. I believe it to be an issue with the microphone, since whenever I make or receive calls, I'm able to hear the person on the other line but they are unable to hear me. The phone is still within the 1-year warranty period. After contacting the AT&T Warranty Department, they told me that they'd send me a replacement phone and to send my defective phone back. Do I need to worry about unrooting my phone first? I have read conflicting information on different forums. Thanks very much for the clarification.
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Just an fyi this is the inspire 4g section. But anyways. I say its better to be safe then sorry and return your phone back stock. So I would say unroot

moka4219 said:
Hi, I'm having issues with my HTC Aria. I believe it to be an issue with the microphone, since whenever I make or receive calls, I'm able to hear the person on the other line but they are unable to hear me. The phone is still within the 1-year warranty period. After contacting the AT&T Warranty Department, they told me that they'd send me a replacement phone and to send my defective phone back. Do I need to worry about unrooting my phone first? I have read conflicting information on different forums. Thanks very much for the clarification.
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Try the speaker phone. Can people on the other end hear you then?

OK guys this is not an ATT support forum. They have their own site.
Thread closed

[Q] My rant towards T-Mobile! Any suggestions?

Well, this is my 6th G2X from T-Mobile. I kept sending it back under warranty and receiving a refurbished phone that ended up giving me the same problems (I'm assuming if it SEEMS fine they just brand it refurbished and send it back out to save $$$). Of course, it's giving me all sorts of problems again but it's no longer under the t-mobile warranty (90 days for a refurbished phone is kind of ****ing stupid). It's less than a year old so it SHOULD be covered by LG.. The only problem is the IMEI of the phone says it's older than a year (because someone else had it before me) so they won't fix it unless I provide some PHYSICAL proof of purchase that has the date received and IMEI on it.
Here's the part that is driving me insane:
I call T-mobile and they say "Sure! Here's an order ID, just give that to LG and it will work. Don't worry". Even after questioning them multiple times they sounded very confident. I called LG and nope, nothing they can do with that so I call T-Mobile again and she tells me "just give them your IMEI, when they look it up it will have all that information". Again, she reassured me even after I asked over and over if she was sure so I called LG and they told me there's no such information and even though I argued and argued they wouldn't budge. So.. I call T-Mobile AGAIN and they tell me they will send out a receipt with all the information I need and they're so so sorry. I wait a week and nothing so I call back again and they don't even have a memo of what the CS said he would do and then told me there's no way they can help me. He then told me they would give me an early upgrade which was complete bull**** because the "upgrade" they offered was already available for me online. It's not a true upgrade, more like a 20% discount off a full price phone.
I'm at my wits end. I got this phone because of the hype and all that and now I have a phone that is technically under warranty but there's not a damn thing I can do about it. I've heard stories of people e-mailing the executives and getting stuff handled that way.. Would that be an option for me?

Keep badgering tmo about this, try and talk to a higher rank person each time.
Don't let them take advantage of you.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda app-developers app

Xura08 said:
Well, this is my 6th G2X from T-Mobile. I kept sending it back under warranty and receiving a refurbished phone that ended up giving me the same problems (I'm assuming if it SEEMS fine they just brand it refurbished and send it back out to save $$$). Of course, it's giving me all sorts of problems again but it's no longer under the t-mobile warranty (90 days for a refurbished phone is kind of ****ing stupid). It's less than a year old so it SHOULD be covered by LG.. The only problem is the IMEI of the phone says it's older than a year (because someone else had it before me) so they won't fix it unless I provide some PHYSICAL proof of purchase that has the date received and IMEI on it.
Here's the part that is driving me insane:
I call T-mobile and they say "Sure! Here's an order ID, just give that to LG and it will work. Don't worry". Even after questioning them multiple times they sounded very confident. I called LG and nope, nothing they can do with that so I call T-Mobile again and she tells me "just give them your IMEI, when they look it up it will have all that information". Again, she reassured me even after I asked over and over if she was sure so I called LG and they told me there's no such information and even though I argued and argued they wouldn't budge. So.. I call T-Mobile AGAIN and they tell me they will send out a receipt with all the information I need and they're so so sorry. I wait a week and nothing so I call back again and they don't even have a memo of what the CS said he would do and then told me there's no way they can help me. He then told me they would give me an early upgrade which was complete bull**** because the "upgrade" they offered was already available for me online. It's not a true upgrade, more like a 20% discount off a full price phone.
I'm at my wits end. I got this phone because of the hype and all that and now I have a phone that is technically under warranty but there's not a damn thing I can do about it. I've heard stories of people e-mailing the executives and getting stuff handled that way.. Would that be an option for me?
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ask for customer loyalty dept.
been with tmo 10 years, they do what i ask when i say ill cancel and they can stand in line with their hand out like all the other bill collectors cause they ain't getting **** else from me.
They always work something out with me.
Sent from my glorified LG pet rock™

justjackyl said:
ask for customer loyalty dept.
been with tmo 10 years, they do what i ask when i say ill cancel and they can stand in line with their hand out like all the other bill collectors cause they ain't getting **** else from me.
They always work something out with me.
Sent from my glorified LG pet rock™
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The people I talked to were actually part of that department. I always say "retention" when the automated voice asks what I want and it sends me there. I guess I'll just keep calling them and maybe even ask to speak to a supervisor. Do you guys have any idea what I should ask for specifically? I've heard of some people getting entirely free phones because of crazy situations but I don't want to flat out ask for one

Xura08 said:
The people I talked to were actually part of that department. I always say "retention" when the automated voice asks what I want and it sends me there. I guess I'll just keep calling them and maybe even ask to speak to a supervisor. Do you guys have any idea what I should ask for specifically? I've heard of some people getting entirely free phones because of crazy situations but I don't want to flat out ask for one
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I've dealt with T-Mobile retention more than I care to discuss, normally they'll find some way to reel me back in.
Has your relationship with T-Mobile lasted longer than 2 years? (Have you renewed a contract previously)
I ask because most (all?) cell providers in the US will not direct you to an actual Retention Rep until your account has aged beyond 1 contract term, instead you are re-directed to the escalation unit of the sales dept and they generally don't do anything useful.
Under the assumption that you have had your contract longer than 2 years, it sometimes helps to have inside information on how the retention process works in order to "sway" the rep into getting what you need. I've worked in a contact center for 2 major carriers and what's important is a rep's "Stats". For the retention dept the biggest ones are retention rate and 7 day repeat calls. Retention rate for T-Mobile is now different because of their new rate plan/phone structure and is likely irrelevant. However 7 day repeat calls are generally the basis for any rep to be judged on.
Speak to the rep in the most pleasant manner you can, and put the responsibility on them to help you find a resolution to your problem. Literally ask for their help, and ask realistic solutions to your issue. These are normally BS script replies, but it's all a game anyway. Next tell them what you want, and be firm (but still nice) about it. Let them know you have every intention of calling and speaking with as many people as required in order to resolve this concern, as you believe T-Mobile as your "service" provider should be responsible for your satisfaction. Be clear that you are not asking for the latest and greatest super phone, but it does need to function in the manner in which you were informed it would. This is a frustrating issue and you've wasted enough time trying to get some sort of result, and will continue searching for a resolution over the next couple of days if required. ** Retention Reps get a bonus based on the fact that their customer's wont be calling back and random surveys that are sent out **
While I wouldn't recommend leveraging the surveys as a negotiation point or even the fact that you know about their metrics, simply let them know your intention. Mention the fact you've already called several times already, and are becoming frustrated.
Asking for a manager in this situation often leads no where, management does not have stats (their bonus is based on their reps) and does not have their calls recorded or monitored by quality. It's much more difficult for a rep to say "no" then it will be for their manager.
If none of that works, you might just be SOL. I really hate to say it, but they aren't obligated to do anything about it (which is more BS in your case). Just do what you can, be nice, and hope for the best. I know when I was on the phones, if someone asked be for something with an attitude they didn't get anything in return for it.

Biohazard0289 said:
I've dealt with T-Mobile retention more than I care to discuss, normally they'll find some way to reel me back in.
Has your relationship with T-Mobile lasted longer than 2 years? (Have you renewed a contract previously)
I ask because most (all?) cell providers in the US will not direct you to an actual Retention Rep until your account has aged beyond 1 contract term, instead you are re-directed to the escalation unit of the sales dept and they generally don't do anything useful.
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I've been a customer since 07'. It was originally a flexpay account and then about 1 3/4 years ago I upgraded to the regular contract.
I'm not sure how far I should try and push them because I've heard stories from a friend who had problems and they sent her a new smartphone (When the Galaxy SII was big). I just got off the phone with the retention guy and he gave me this offer: upgrade to the new "value plan" that's not a contract and he would waive the $50 fee (I am eligible on 4/5, and it would be free then) however I would have to pay ~$250 for a Samsung Galaxy SII. Does that sound fair? Or should I hold out for a better offer, because when I told him I would just call back again later to resolve this and I appreciated his help he said "Well, hold on, how about I waive the fee and try and get you with a new phone today?"?

Xura08 said:
I've been a customer since 07'. It was originally a flexpay account and then about 1 3/4 years ago I upgraded to the regular contract.
I'm not sure how far I should try and push them because I've heard stories from a friend who had problems and they sent her a new smartphone (When the Galaxy SII was big). I just got off the phone with the retention guy and he gave me this offer: upgrade to the new "value plan" that's not a contract and he would waive the $50 fee (I am eligible on 4/5, and it would be free then) however I would have to pay ~$250 for a Samsung Galaxy SII. Does that sound fair? Or should I hold out for a better offer, because when I told him I would just call back again later to resolve this and I appreciated his help he said "Well, hold on, how about I waive the fee and try and get you with a new phone today?"?
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Click to collapse
Keep track of names, dates, times called, use that information to ding previous agent, than next agent knows you'll do same to them
It may take a couple cycles of this but you'll find someone that after enough callbacks, will offer you a good deal.
Everyone's experience is different, also, when you get Akmhad the Indian on the line and he says his name is Dave, politely state that you cannot understand their accent and requested a native english speaker or to be transferred to another agent cause you can't understand, and hopefully that will dump you back in queue and get you into an American call center, this is how I've done it, and I find the girls with a.southern usa accent are the easy ones to work on to get what you want.
Sent from my glorified LG pet rock™

justjackyl said:
I find the girls with a.southern usa accent are the easy ones to work on to get what you want.
Sent from my glorified LG pet rock™
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This is true on so many levels

TwitchyEye said:
This is true on so many levels
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Ohhh man. lmao
I'm gonna regret saying that in such a "general" way. lmfao
Sent from my glorified LG pet rock™