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GPS, WiFI, BT and Camera All in One Phone

:!: Sorry for the shameless attempt to get you here with a dreamy subject but it's relevant to the topic - honestly. :!:
I'm after a PDAPhone with built in everything. But looks so far like I'm going to have to compromise and get an external GPS receiver, however was just hoping someone might have a little gem that I couldn't find anywhere else in the forums.
I have owned and loved the O2 XDA range ever since my first XDA years ago and have since lugged around an XDAII. I damaged my II recently and have a nice cheque for £550 burning a hole in my pocket courtesy of the insurance company. This means that for the first time ever I don't need to go to a subsidised model. My initial thought was that I'd stump up a few extra quid and get a JamJar :lol: from expansys but now I'm a bit more mature I decided to check out the options first.
So far I've found (Ignoring Naming Variations):
Prices quoted are from expansys - they could be cheaper elsewhere. Pls let me know if you find any (UK Only though)
:arrow: iPAQ hw6515 - Looks a bit crap, small screen and no wi-fi listed but DOES have GPS & 1.3Mp Cam - Anyone know of any Square Aware issues with programs?
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=120563
:idea: £439.95
:arrow: i-mate JAM - Small and sexy but no Wi-Fi and no GPS but would stop people asking if I've got a brick taped to my head. + 1.3Mp, COuld afford external GPS with this one.
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=I-MATE_JAM
:idea: £359.95
:arrow:Qtek 9090- Has everything But GPS but would leave enough money for a BT GPS - No camera spec but I think it's 0.3Mp like the XDAIIs - Could be upgraded to WM5, My Mate has one and the Thumb Keyboard is easy to use whilst walking - If I use my head not my geekometer this is my favourite.
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=QTEK_9090
:idea: £414.95
:arrow: i-mate JASJAR - Dogs balls but still no GPS and not much more than the 9090 + v Expensive & Getting Bigger - 1.3Mp Cam I think. (I have no 3G service anywhere near me so that's not a bonus) I really like the 3.5mm Jack - Overall a severe number of geek points! NO CRADLE Still needs GPS Seperate, not sure how useable while walking the keyboard will be. I really want one.
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=119353
:idea: £669.95
:arrow: i-mate K-JAM - WiFi, BT etc, Smaller and lighter than Universal, WM5, 1.3Mp. I like the keyboard. Maybe my new best choice. JUST leaves enough money to think about an external GPS. Thanks JamiJam
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=125518
:idea: £504.95
My criteria to consider are as follows, argue with them and persuade me otherwise with reasons if you so wish:
Phone + PDA Essential (Tri Band+)
Camera - Prefer 1+Mp
BT - Must Have
Wi-Fi - Optional but Preferred a lot
3G - Not required
Keyboard - Like to Have (It's awkward using handwriting when travelling)
GPS - Very Nice to Have I Drive a lot and would like to use TT in the future.
OS - Not Bothered, these can be changed
I have 1 Month to decide before I burst and spray money all over the place so I'd really appreciate any comments you might have.
Don't go off on any obscure tangents though please, post them in a new topic and link to it if you wish.

Wizard...
(aka K-Jam, aka Qtek 9100)

Not sure when it will be out but Orange are going to release the Wizard and call it the SPV M600. If you can wait then you'll have it subsidised. :wink:

hmmmmm
Ok, so far the Wizard is my favourite now. I'd completely forgotten about that. What's the keyboard like though? I'm not too fussed about the size (the one on the XDA III is smaller and still useable)? It's more the key action I'm bothered about.
Does it have those rubbish 'rubbery' 'spectrum' style keys? It looks like it does.
I'm still yearning for a Universal cos none of my mates will have one but my head is still saying I don't need it and one of the others will do everything I want.

AFAIK HTC has some kind of arrangement with compaq - HTC will not make a phone with GPS as it competes with a model HTC makes for compaq that does have GPS or something like that (the hw6515 maybe ?)
I have a Blue Angel (O2 XDA IIs) and it does all of this.
http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=I-MATE_III
WM5 now available and working fine on it.
It has a keyboard too, it's those blister things (more like a ZX81 than a spectrum) but it is useable, although the keyboard layout is a bit ****e.
What with the newer models coming out you should be able to pick one up cheapish.
I run mine with a Globalsat Bt-338 Bluetooth GPS and Tomtom 5

oh, and FYI, this PDA holder from halfords holds the BA perfectly and can be mounted to your dash. It obscures no ports.
(The pic is upside down BTW)
http://www.halfords.com/opd_product_details.asp?id=16600&type=0&cat=397

The keyboard on the wizard is excellent, in my humble opinion!
It also snaps in and out in a way that makes you feel it won't break down easily.
Finally, it automatically turns the phone's display into landscape mode, which is very handy.

Wizard or BA
I have to say I'm still impressed with the Wizard. Just made a scale model out of card (how sad is that) and it's tiny!
I like the BA but if the keyboard doesn't let the Wizard down I think it'll be my PDA of choice. The one thing I really didn't like about the Jam was its lack of Wi-Fi and that's solved in the K-Jam.
I assume the screen's readable, I like to think that I'll have good eyesight for a couple of years yet so I don't think the size will be an issue.

iPaq HW6515
I have tried without success to get details of the built-in GPS. The one authoritative source to whom I spoke was scathing about its performance. So whatever you do choose, I do not recommend the iPaq.
On a separate note I saw my first Jasjar close up today. It is lighter than you might think, but heavier than is reasonable for prolonged use as a phone. A bluetooth earpiece was being used that included a display for caller ID. As a data device it is pretty impressive.
I too run a GlobalSat BT-338 GPS, in my case with Mapopolis.

if you are going GPS, make sure it is SIRFstar III chipset (the current latest-and-greatest), especially if you live in a city as they are really good at "urban canyon" reception.
I have seen new BT-338s on ebay for £65 "buy it now" recently

plus another thing to think about...
a seperate BT GPS unit has various advantages:
1) Battery
It won't drain your PPC battery when operating, except the charge needed to communicate via BT.
2) Upgrading
If a new improved GPS unit comes out and you have an onboard GPS unit, you are carrying useless baggage and can't sell the old one.
Also bear in mind there will likely be new features added to GPS units.
one example: digital compass. At the moment, if you stand still and rotate, a GPS unit has no clue which way you are facing until you move. A GPS does already transmit heading AFAIK - it works out which way you are facing by assiming you are looking in the direction of travel. Integration of a digital compass therefore would probably require no changes to the protocol. This does exist ( see http://www.xemics.com/internet/solutions/compass.jsp?productID=108 )
3) Switching.
BT GPS units work on laptopss too you know
4) Safety. I use my GPS for a sport called mountain boarding. Same kinda deal as downhill mountain biking, I trace a route I have done using GPS software. I ride with my XDA in a reinforced case with foam in, but find the GPS reception suffers, so I keep the BT GPS unit in my bag and the XDA in the case.
Seeing as the XDA is MUCH more valuable than the GPS this makes sense.
5) Reception versus viewing position.
Sometimes the position with best reception is not the same as the position you can see the screen of your PPC best.

????
Good point.
Ok, more questions on the K-Jam
Camera: Says 1.3/2 Is this 1.3 with software to 'frig' it to 2?
Keyboard: Is the expansys keyboard silver ( http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=125518 ) or black ( http://www.expansys.com/zoompic.asp?type=item&code=125518 )
Silver ones look plastic whereas black ones look rubbery. Which have you got JamiJam? Is it from Expansys?
Processor: 200Mhz? Is that right? Seems quite a drop. Do you have any problems with media playback? I remember my XDA I used to have a problem playing big avi files.
Ta Very Much

Camera is 1.3MP, and it is ****.
Yes, it's better than the Magician, but it's still pretty bad. I wouldn't buy the Wizard hoping to use the camera for anything useful. In my opinion this is the #1 point on which HTC is lacking. They've worked on everything else, now they need to start putting decent cameras in these devices.
I have the silver keyboard and I bought my Wizard in a store. I believe that if you order from expansys you'll get a silver one.
Processor is 200MHz (different CPU architecture) but it seems to be on par with the Magician in practice, maybe 10% slower. So yes, you should be able to watch full screen movies, once you find a bit-rate/resolution/format that works for you. Not sure which XDA you had, but I would expect similar ballpark performance.
Hope this helps.

Ta
The 'performance lacking' XDA was the original XDA I and I'll take your word for it that performance is ok. I don't use it for anything too hot and my XDA II never had a problem with films.
To be honest, every camera phone I've had from the XDA Range was ****ty quality (Very grainy) but I spend a fair bit of time on site collecting info on wagons and stuff for my job and it's always handy to be able to snap a quick video or pic of something. The only reason I want a higher res is so that when some tit with a Sony Ericson goes on about his 2Mp camera I don't loose too many 'top trumps' points. I never print the pics and my main contract doesn't support GPRS so I don't often send MMS. You'd be surprised how easily you can still get by with just plain old WAP.
Good news on the silver buttons. I prefer them. Has anyone bought one from Expansys who can verify?

Sweetness & Joy
Just thought I'd post my decision for those of you who like seing things through to a conclusion.
After much ponderation and constructing various cardboard models I have decided on the HTC Wizard, purchased from expansys (i-Mate K-Jam). There's a delay on delivery at the moment (3 Days!!!! I can't wait) but once it arrives I'll post back with my oppinions.
I've also heard that my mate is buying the JasJar so I'll be able to make a comparison and post it back.
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:!: Come on Friday! :!:
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D'oh! Just a note not say the expansys delivery has been put back but they've dropped the price too.
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:!: Come on Some-Day! :!:
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Just been looking at some larger photos of the buttons
http://forum.xda-developers.com/files/keyboard-flash.jpg
I take back my spectrum comments, they look pretty good.

Hurrah!
Ok! I've got my Wizard at last. I ended up buying the Qtek 9100 rather than the K-Jam. Looks like I'll miss out on Club i-Mate. :-(
Thought I'd post my views on the phone here just to give closure to anyone reading this thread.
The screen is very sharp. Everything obviously is smaller because the pixels are closer together but the overall effect is a very good screen. The guy in our office with really bad eyesight liked it and he's normally a miserable git when it comes to gadgets.
I take back my comments about the keyboard, it looks fantastic, the action is really great and you can use it to type replies to text messages on the move, which is something I've always struggled with before using the Transcriber. People are also really impressed when the screen rotates thru' to landscape.
I've used it for playing some music and although the speakers built in are tinny as you'd expect, the headphones are really good. I don't know if they'd be the same for the i-Mate but they fit comfortably in my ears and have a very good sound compared to the old XDA & XDA II headphones (Not that that would be hard)!
I miss having a cradle. It was nice to be able to display your phone on your desk while it was charging. Just using a USB cable makes it all feel a bit less sexy as an experience but then you can't have everything I suppose.
The coolest thing I found was the Stylus. It's about 50mm long when it first comes out of the phone. Then you give it a little pull and it extends to... hold on let me get a ruler... 85mm. It's not as comfy to use as the XDA/XDA II styli but since i haven't used it for writing much it doesn't matter. The keyboard is so easy to pull out and use that I've only really used the stylus to point at stuff so that my fingers don't get the screen dirty. The softkeys in WM 2005 also mean that you rarely need to touch the screen.
It's a bit chunkier than I expected but still not big. It's only marginally bigger than my girlfriends Nokia 6230 and compared to an older XDA model it feels like it's tiny!
Voice recognition button on the side works really well so far. I've got about 10 contacts programmed in and it seems to be picking them up ok, even in the car.
Overall, i'm yet to find much of a fault with it. I'll try to get some piccies of bits posted sometime next week.
Feel free to ask any questions.

JASJAR II
When the damn thing releases.....of course
I really wouldnt auction my spare kidney and buy it, and then suffer with a RAM deficit! My xda 2 currently running on wm5, has 128megs ram and 32megs rom....compared to 43megs ram & rom of jasjar........one word.......RIDICULOUS!
i cant believe seeing a 7MB RAM free on a device, and i dont ever want to see it! HTC/ IMATE/ Whoever claim they put in less RAM for extended battery life....bucket of crap! I really dont care for those couple extra hours that i'd probably get, and i dont mind carrying a spare battery or a charger wherever i go....
Its a handicap which is BIG! Besides this, the Jasjar is divinely irresistable, and i cant stop oggling at it :shock:
So, i guess i'll wait for a JJ II to come out with same form factor, and somemore ram which would make the device practical....
HTC do you hear me??????
San

weeel
:shock:
RAM isn't everything. I have been using the device for a day now (Non-stop), often running WMP10, Outlook, PIE etc also playing Tomb Raider. I haven't noticed any diference between this and my XDA II which had I think 64Mb and a 400 odd MHz processor. The odd app is a trifle slow to load up but nothing more major than that.
If the battery life sacrifice is true, then it's not for this little puppy. All this usage (with wi-fi on but not actually using a wi-fi network) and the battery didn't drop below 60% yesterday (Using lightly whilst at work and heavily in the evening. I even synced using bluetooth).
Memory has crept down to 1Mb program mem free at times but I assume windows is just doing its thing because this comes back up after a while and I don't notice any drop in performance.

Re: Hurrah!
eayuwna said:
I miss having a cradle. It was nice to be able to display your phone on your desk while it was charging. Just using a USB cable makes it all feel a bit less sexy as an experience but then you can't have everything I suppose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This site: http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/5735.htm claims that this desktop charger/cradle is compatible with the K-Jam so if that's true then it should be OK for your QTek. 8)

Change from Atom to Asus p525???

The phone I am using now has terrible reception and the camera is bad and I want a numpad. Asus p525 seems to have it all. Does anyone have opinions on the P525?

No reception problem and excellent camera. Just be sure to get one w/ serial number 69a or above.

you have no this phone but already know that it has terrible reception?
I'm as an owner of such phone can tell that reception is very good!
Camera is slow, but quality is acceptable.
my SN starts from 68A
jackleung,
where you found that good revision has to have SN starting from 69A?
i only found that pre-68 revisions could have problem with screen alignment. nothing else.

Nonono, you have it the wrong way sorg. I have an Atom now and I am saying that it is terrible. The main thing is that I am considering the price difference.
I have done a lot of research on the switch already.
The atom I have now is in perfect condition and can probably sell for 700.
The P525 in HK is on for about 500-700. For old to new. The main problem is that I don't know if I can change the language back to English myself because my Traditional Chinese is fine, but I prefer English. I see that Sorg knows a lot about this as well. I have already downloaded the ASUS.UnlocklangID.exe but I am not sure how it works. So does it just unlock it and then I can install the English 3.32? And the switch is permanent? or do i have to use it to unlock every time? I don't think the English one for 1000 is worth the change yet.
I have also looked at this thread http://forum.mypdacafe.com/viewtopic.php?t=9753 and the mobinaute review. It seems that the P525 is a lot better than the atom in the review and the benchmark results were actually pretty stunning.
I have a 1gb sd mini and a xtbtue bluetooth keyboard and I am pretty sure it will work on the P525 as well.
I mean, I can just purchase Chinese one to test it out and then change it to the English rom and then sell the Atom or P525, whichever one is not as good. But if I can't change the rom easily to another language then I probably cannot sell the P525 here at an acceptable price.
I am really considering the change because the atom isn't as good as I thought it would be. It keeps cutting off reception in my own house where as my old P800 never did. The atom is not bad, but after looking at the benchmark results in mobinaute, I really have to consider this change.
So Sorg, since you are the expert in this phone, how does the language changing process actually work with the P525?

Bros.. which country are ya one?
Atom.. did have slight reception probs for me.. Now I'm using the hp6828.. the very same problem is there.. x10!!
I'm also thinking of Asus P525/535.. and It's still not out here in SG...

I live in Canada but I have relatives going to and from HK all the time so I can get a waay better deal like that. I just hope that I can change the chinese to english...

You can change ROM from chinese to english by flashing the english ROM with all-region patch from sorg
The P525 is a fantastic device!
I finally found the device right for me!
As I dont use GPRS much, so I dont care for 3G(its just a faster way to blow more money on traffic),- so its not a minus for me. But I appreciate the very affordable price of p525, its nothing comparing to latest HTCs.
Screen is very good. On maximum brightness, its a match for sunny day, on minimum brightness its comfortable to the eyes in the total darkness.
Size is perfect for me. Yes, its larger then a phone, but hey, this is not a phone, its more of PDA. It have 2.8'' standard screen, a lot better for me than these samsungs/gsmarts that have small screens and WM5 PocketPC interface is less usable. P525 is slighty larger then TyTN/Wizard from the face side, but its thinner. And it weights the same 160g.
You should also mention that battery life is fantastic! Its more then 20 hours(!) in reading/mp3 mode - yes, actually longer then ever for HTC OMAP devices. Seems that ASUS implemented the Intel Wireless SpeedStep power-saving technology to the max extend. Did I mention ASUS have 416 MHz XScale (Bulverde), with Wireless MMX? Samsung is nothing comparing to it, I can watch PC movies over WiFi without any conversion at full FPS!
MiniSD slot, not this MicroSD crap! I can use my old 2G MiniSD card
Proper 2.5mm headset jack, so no probs in connecting third-party headsets.
Also, camera & flash is very good. Having real mechanical adaptive optics helps too, if you'll look at the camera when its focusing, you can actually see the lens moving. I think p525 is unique in that prospect.
WiFi have really good reception. Though as WiFi goes, it eats battery fast, nothing unusual here. So I think I'll stick with Bluetooth, good that p525 have Bluetooth 2.0 and Broadcomm stack supports every profile imaginable (instead of puny microsoft one).
Main loudspeaker is not as weak, its more of badly located - on the back of the device, so most of its power goes straight into table on which device is lying. These measures are very helpful:
- buy a cradle (ie one from brando workshop)
- put the device on the table "face down" (also helps to prevent excessive dust on screen and between keys)
- increase the ring melody volume in any sound editor. I've just got a "windows default" and made it up to the max - now I hear calls from thru entire appartment easely.
So I say: Beware, HTC
Though no doubt HTC will still stay much afloat due to their "everyone needs 3G" marketing buzz

sorg said:
where you found that good revision has to have SN starting from 69A?
i only found that pre-68 revisions could have problem with screen alignment. nothing else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, what I try to point out is the screen alignment problem from exist pre-69 revision (I found some people with 68a still have this problem)

Hi cts15. First of all I am glad that you are enjoying your device and are satisfied with it in all ways. You know personal satisfaction is the most important thing.
One question for me and I would be grateful. How do you find the build quality that is how is the plastic casing, does it creek more than normal, how is the paint quality do you see any flaking, etc. You know these kind of things I am interested in. Your valuable comments regarding the build quality will be appreciated.
Thanks once again and enjoy your P525 in good health

Sorry srmz, I believe that you have mistaken my post. I am still deciding if I should get a P525.
I guess I should phrase my question more specifically. If I actually unlock the language of a HK P525 and then install the English rom, it becomes English. But does it become a English P525 or is it still a HK P525 with an English rom? For example, lets say I have installed the 3.32 with language unlock, an a 3.40 English comes out. Do I have to unlock language again? Or do I just have to install it directly because it is already a complete English version of the phone?

srmz said:
Hi cts15. First of all I am glad that you are enjoying your device and are satisfied with it in all ways. You know personal satisfaction is the most important thing.
One question for me and I would be grateful. How do you find the build quality that is how is the plastic casing, does it creek more than normal, how is the paint quality do you see any flaking, etc. You know these kind of things I am interested in. Your valuable comments regarding the build quality will be appreciated.
Thanks once again and enjoy your P525 in good health
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had my device for a couple of weeks now serial #68XXXX & in response to your questions
The plastics used is of good quality certainly no worse than that used by HTC devices. The area surrounding the screen & the back of the battery cover is covered in a brushed metal plate. The paint looks of good quality & so far no signs of flaking.
The device is nice & hefty (but not heavy) & feels good when held. As for creaking, when you hold it normally it doesn't, but if you hold it either end with both hands & twist it then yes it does creak but who would do that all the time anyway. The battery cover fits nice & tightly. I just gave it a good shake & can hear no rattles.
The buttons down the side of the phone are silvered coloured plastic & have a nice click action.
Another thing I need to clarify is that the full length stylus which was described as being plastic in a review on another website is infact untrue. It is composed of 3 parts bonded together. The top 1/3 part is indeed plastic but the main shaft is definately made of dark metal alloy the tip is of plastic.
By the way I also have a HTC Hermes (SPV M3100) & the fit & finish of the Asus is as good if not a bit better than it.
I can honestly say that the Asus is for now the best device for my needs. It is stable, unlike the SPV M3100, phone signal reception is excellent. The T9 enabled numeric keypad is great. If it had 3G (maybe even built in GPS) it would be perfect for me.

Thanks for the great post Zen123.
I have already made up my mind to get one from reading so much about it everywhere.

Thanks zen123 your input is invaluable.
Regards

LG KS20 - User Opinions?

I wanted some feedback from KS20 owners.
It's available here in India for approx Rs 20k. I am presuming it will come with an English ROM.
Rather than ROM extraction and cooking, I wanted owner opinions on the unit.
How stable is the firmware?
Any bugs/crashes?
Any compatibility problems with programs?
Any physical problems with the unit (easily scratches/paint peeling etc...)?
Do you use a screen guard?
What was included in the box?
What's the ringing tone volume like? (Lots of reviews have said it is VERY low. India is a very loud country and I need a load ring tone and strong vibra).
What's the earpiece volume like? (As above, I need a loud earpiece to hear the other party. I also have a hearing problem which means that earpiece volume is extremely important.)
I am thinking about buying a KS20 vs Touch. There is no 3G in India. What I am looking for is a very light handset that I can use as a daily phone. Would a KS20 handle a rough daily life?
(Off topic question: Any ideas on what HTC will announce in the first week of May? Something that would match/exceed a KS20 as a Touch replacement?)

got an KS20 in bombay..... im liking it.. but kinda finding bugs with WM6 not the handset.... might jus hvto flush the entire OS and reinstall it or sumthin..... but luvin the handet.... ive customized it to make is easier for usage... got the spbshell application ..... got the phonepad keyboard for easy typing.... and yaaa got screenprotector..... but yaaa also liost my stylus the first week n they dunt give any spare in the box...so basically jus waiting to buy a spare once the spare parts are available in india!..... other than that...luv the phone.. :-D

Thanks,
Any specific bugs? I am a bit worried about availability of spares, with HTC items, spares and accessories are available everywhere.

Does it really has 128MB/256MB or 64M/128M?
The marketing phrase: 128MB internal memory means nothing to me. Actually it scares me, as I would think they are trying to fool me.

I have a KS20. I like it It has a bug: cannot send SMS messages but I don't think it's from the phone. It's either from the SIM card or from the WM. I don't use texting much so it's not a problem to me as I have Skype and a WiFi. I had problems with Skype calls, but there's a solution in the Skype forums. It also has problems with Opera Mobile 9.7 but works fine with Opera Mobile 9.5.
P.S. Sorry for resurrecting this topic, but someone can benefit from it

Ooooh yes, let's revive this topic, because it gives me an opportunity to stress how much I hated that device.
First, the pros:
- very good-looking (IMHO) industrial design
- lightweight
- slim WM6 device.
- 3G capable
- with a case that integrates very neatly.
Now, the cons, which I consider absolute dealbreakers:
- buggy OS. Don't think that just because this is a WM6 phone, it supports all WM6 applications. There's no clear pattern or reason to it, but some apps (including most of my paid-for apps) do not work properly on the KS20.
- GPS/navi apps in particular don't run properly because the KS20 is unable to play voice prompts (like "turn left") from the navi software. This is true for most navigation apps, and the only, silly workaround is playing a "silent" audio file endlessly in the background.
- battery prone to corruption. Most KS20s suffered from a battery bug where, after some use, the battery would always show 99%, irrespective of the actual charge. So your phone would just suddenly run out of power, and you had no way of knowing when. Supply of replacement batteries was a serious worldwide problem last year, too.
- Also, you need to be aware that the KS20 employs the Widcom/Broadcom bluetooth stack. I mention this because it may cause problems with some applications.
LG support negated all these faults, although they had been reported in the forums worldwide. It took some lengthy negotiations with my carrier before I could get a replacement - actually I had to send it in three times, each taking about 5 weeks. See how that can make you mad?
After all, I got a Touch Diamond as a replacement. So I'm back with HTC (where I had been before the LG KS20), and I'm a happy badger now.
Bottom line: Give the KS20 a wide berth. Don't go anywhere near it. Slick device, but alas, what a piece of junk to work with.
N.

I-Mate Ultimate 9502. Kaiser Killer?

I imagine in a similar way to many people in these forums I had hit a brick wall on PDA functionality. I was was waiting for Kaiser to be THE all in one and just as I was about to buy one I discovered the shortcomings. So, having sold my TyTn and bluetooth, solar GPS receiver I brought an Athena. Wonderful piece of kit but in the end it had to go as it was just too bulky.
Having heard that the 9502 was imminent I brought an HP 9515 to see me through to it's realease.
Two weeks ago I placed a pre-order for the 9502 with Powerupmobile as stock was due on the 24th and to my surprise (and slightly disturbing swelling in my manhood) it arrived last Friday (18th April) so I have had a weekend to play.
Out of the box the overriding feeling was 'heavy'. TyTn was ABS plastic but this is (and I stand corrected) magnesium alloy encased. Personally I find that comforting...remember when B&O put lead weights in their remotes to make the quality more tactile?
Runinng WM6 which we are all familiar with there are no real surprises except to say that the 640x480 screen IS beautiful!
Down the left hand side you have JOG Wheel and 'OK' button (very blackberry and very friendly) as well as a shortcut button to the wireless comms. The charging/hardwire comms facility (mini USB) is also present this side rather than on the southern aspect.
Down The right hand side is a '+' and '-' rocker switch for volume etc, voice memo and camera activation buttons as well as a 2.5mm stereo jack.
The stainless steel telescopic pointer is housed to the top right whilst the power button is on the top, horizontal face of the unit.
The face of the unit has buttons for MESSAGING, INTERNET, START, OK, RECEIVER UP AND DOWN and a FOUR WAY THUMB PAD + SELECTOR BUTTON. To access the MicroSD HC slot you have to remove the rear battery case, but not the battery itself.
Right
Left Back
Top
Bottom
Screen up
Battery exposed
On arrival I loaded all my usual software and all has worked fine with one exception...it seems that after using TomTom6, quitting the application and letting the unit timeout, it will not reactivate on the standard power depress. I have had to soft reset. I will make I-Mate aware of this.
-------I have subsequently discovered that this is a one off and the unit is being swapped out- 22-04-08-----------
All comms functions are manually startable so you have to remember to enable the GPS radio prior to starting your satnav software.
In much the way as TyTn an Kaiser the screen can be pushed to reveal a full QWERTY keyboard (though the numerics are still FN dependant) and the keyboard is backlit depending on the ambient lighting conditions.
The screen behaves more like a Samsung phone inasmuch as it 'flicks' up and down.
The reason I didn't buy Kaiser was because of the video playback problems dirctly attributable to the drivers for the Qualcomm hardware. What is ironic with the 9502 is that it is Qualcomm based but at 320x240 video plays back just fine. Using TCPMP to watch Star Wars Episode III with TCPMP in 'Raw Frame buffer mode' the movie was totally watchable. I will test 640x480 when I get time.
The GPS is easy to set up (on COM9 at either 5,400 or 115,000 baud) with more channels (and therefore more accuracy) than any other PDA I have used with an inbuilt receiver. The cold start time is between 15 secs and one minute depending on the normal constraints. There is no 'Quick GPS' facility.
I haven't been able to test HSDPA yet but all the radio's seem to give good reception so there's no reason to assume that throughput will be anything other than expected.
So, Kaiser Killer? For me, yes without doubt but don't forget this luurvely piece of kit hast only just been released. It WILL get better.
Now, who makes it?
PS if anyone wants me to test it anyway or wants more info, let me know.

Amazing!
Wow! This is one nice phone. I've been disappointed in my touch dual for some time now (eventhough Its not been too long since I bought it!) and been looking for a replacement but none of the phones I've seen look as 'sleek'.
I may just look into this one more.
I see that this one also has the same qualcomm chipset. What is the video playback like?
Does it have bad lag like all the other htc qualcomm pdas (like the touch dual)?
Does it slow down when you keep the screen pressed?
One more thing....I cant see it from any pictures, but is the screen beveled or is it flush with the sides?

Awesome. I've been wanting one of those since they were announced. After this little review you posted, I might think about actually getting one. Thanks

That be a bezelled screen me lad.

Duplicate post.

Duplicate post

Using TCPMP to watch video there were initially problems with a huge amount of frame ripping. This was quickly resolved by switching to from DiractDraw to GDI codec and upping the buffer to 4mb. This was at 320x240. Will try reformatting to 640x480 asap but I don't hold out a lot of hope that watchability will be as good.
Don't know what you mean by 'keep the screen pressed'.
It is indeed a bevelled screen surround.

Why does every new device got to be the "Kaiser" killer?
Also, what is with the internet and email buttons being by the ear speaker at the top? Everytime I answer a call I'm going to open an email.

By way of an update to the issue with TomTom6, it turns out that my unit is faulty. At random it won't come out of standby. Completely unpredicatable and unrelated to TomTom, it transpires. PowerupMobile.com have organised a direct swapout so hopefully it's just a bit of bad luck. Bodes well for Powerup Mobile though. I was concerned that as they were nearly £100 cheaper than expansys the service might not be as good. Great response from their tech guy/guys too.

If you put your phone yo your head with that kind of sustained pressure your in for serious ear problems.
Kaiser killer cause it's less money, a better product out of the box (4 x the screen resolution) and it all works as it's supposed to (with the exception of mine which is, of course, a one off problem). HTC have long been repackaging the same hardware and charging more and more for it with little increase in functionality. I was a hardened HTC fan as my PDA record shows, but to tout a unit as the most powerful of it's type, hike the price and then turn out a unit which is effectively a TyTn with a GPS and a video problem isn't too customer focused...stockholder focused perhaps; to then refuse to sort a DRIVER problem....firmware no less...tends to put one off. In my humble opinion, if a 'Kaiser Killer' comes along and forces HTC to turn out better products at a more competetive price, I'll be back with them.
Oh yeah, and it's a catchy title.

i´m also interested in this phone.
could you please upload some pics taken with the camera. best would be in dark light and with text.
thanks

Eurosportler said:
i´m also interested in this phone.
could you please upload some pics taken with the camera. best would be in dark light and with text.
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will do. Give me 24 hrs though. By 'with text' I assume you mean a text imprint overlaid direct?

yes, that is what i meant with "text"
thank you for the fast response.

Could you please tell us how responsive is this device compared to the kaiser lets say. I mean do you have any problems of it being slow? I am asking because VGA screen resolution is sometimes a burden for processors and there are some examples of "slow" VGA devices.
Do you have memory leaking problems? I have heard a lot about the considerably low 30mb free RAM after a reboot, but if it remains there after starting and closing programs, I don't believe it is an issue.
Finally, could try to make some benchmarks and post the result. Try to use SPB or sktools so that there are comparable results.
Sorry for the long request message, but I seriously thinking of buying this device, and it is good to know some things before I finally decide.
Thanks!

I hate to burst your bubble, guys but since the technical specs(incl. CPU) are pretty much the same as on the Kaiser(HTC TyTN II), don't you think that i-mate just put Kaiser technology into a different(yes, nicer) outfit?! Just my 2 cents worth...

@P996: yes but you are missing the VGA spec which is something "different" to what we have seen up until now. Moreover, if imate has actually managed to use the processor efficiently so to cope with the VGA resolution demands, that we are talking about something completely new, considering the size and offers (GPS, wi/fi, VGA, keyboard). I don't think there is something similar in the market now and all its offers are called new technology.
@edenc: sorry but I have on more question . I have also read some comments about battery life. Do you think it is ok, or it might be an issue? How does it compare again to the kaiser lets say?

Diamond killer???
lol
just read the thread.. sorry

Oh its completely a Kaiser Killer. Everything about it is better. All my mates who have a Kaiser want my 9502, but the video drivers are still shockingly bad (sorry to sound like a broken record). I never even considered a Kaiser - it seemed like a downgrade from the Hermes in terms of the features that I regularly use.
The 9502 can play perfect qvga video, but it looks rubbish on the VGA screen. Other than that (and no SDHC support) this is, in my opinion much better than anything that is currently on the market, and will be until the X1 comes out.

ya. cant wait for X1 with 3" 800x480 WVGA!
compare to that fake diamond at 2.8" VGA 640x480! haha

you may also want to repost your article to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=351788

A bit of clarification on vibrate (or lack thereof)...

Hello all:
I've been trying to do my homework dilligently to decide whether I buy a x7510 or not. To me, the lack of vibrate is a showstopper.
However, in one review posted on pocketpcthoughts.com, I read that the vibrate function is enabled when the keyboard is attached.
Is this accurate or not?
What does "keyborad is attached" mean exactly; does it mean "attached" as in "covering the screen", or "attached as in "typing mode"?
Thanks all for any hints here.

That review/opinion is not correct.
The X7510 does not have a phone vibrate function- these are generally built into the battery pack or on the motherboard.
The keyboard 'vibrate' feature refers to the 'haptic feedback' enabled on the X7510's hardware keyboard, which gives a small vibration and sound 'pulse' when any key is pressed, as the keys have no physical travel.

Thank you very much for the clarification !

It's still a good device!

Yes, I am sure it is a great device.
I am somewhat concerned though since I've used vibrate functions forever, and if I were to go with the X7510, I'd like to use it as a phone as well (with BT headset, something I've used for what it seems forever as well .
I have read about some workarounds (like recording a vibrating phone and use it as a ringtone), so I am still thinking about it. But the review at pocketpcthoughts threw me off a bit; I am glad you clarified.
My problem is that I am absolutely against ringing phones; they are so disruptive :-(
Do you use it as a phone? Do you have another workaround?
Thanks again...

IMHO
The xda universal is still the best pda on the market. I would never recommend purchasing this device (x7510). The phone features is 'average' at best.
Just me 2 cents

orinoco said:
Do you use it as a phone? Do you have another workaround?
Thanks again...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The short answer is no- I don't use it as a phone unless in emergencies. I use mine mainly as a reference, research and media device, and my Diamond as my primary phone.
When I do use it as a phone, I use it with a BT headset. My Plantronics earpiece does have a 'beep' or 'vibrate' function so I simply have the ringer sound on the X7510 muted.
@youmeus: Granted, the XDA Exec/ HTC Universal was good in its day, but is very long in the tooth now. The processor and memory are both low and the GPS and 3G performance was pretty poor.
OK, it wasn't such a brick as a phone, but you do look a bit of a wally holding it to your ear, so it still really needs a BT headset. I used mine for a few months before changing to a Wizard/ XDA MiniS.
It's all in the eye of the beholder though

What do you need from the CD?
There's nothing on there that can't be downloaded from Microsoft .

to orinoco :- use the phone recorded vibrating buzz sound as advised by steve eagle post , it works pretty good , you can hear it for sure but u will feel the sound a bit if u are touching your device - only a bit though , dont expect the same as ordinary phone vibration .
to neilm :- yes u r right - it's a damn great device
to youmeus :- u r dead wrong , no way in this world this device will lose to your xda universal , x7510 of athena family is the king of pda , period ...
and please go back to your universal forum
thanks for reading , cheers to all athena owners - jimmunsw

My View
Hi Guys
I have a Universal and an Ameo (Athena) and using them both I would have to say that the ONLY place the Universal wins, is as a phone and its great keyboard. Dont get me wrong, the universal as a 4-5 year old phone is superb and some of the uni roms are as good as stock. It will do most of what you ask, but it lacks up to date hardware. The Athena as a laptop type replacement is exactly what it was made for, the phone is like a secondary item. HOWEVER if you use a styleI as a blue tooth addon the problem is gone If you switch the sound off then the styleI has a very quiet discreet ring. you answer the phone as you would a normal phone and the Athena stays in its case. I still look a bit of a prat using the Uni as a phone coz it is BIG, the Athena is only 15mm wider thats all. I only have both now coz the Uni is only making small bucks now, and you know how it is when its sitting on the shelf looking at you saying use me
Jay

Hi Jay- good to see you over here
I agree with your comments- the Ameo with BT headset is a good combination . Will you be getting an Ameo 16GB/X7510 then?

NeilM said:
Hi Jay- good to see you over here
I agree with your comments- the Ameo with BT headset is a good combination . Will you be getting an Ameo 16GB/X7510 then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its all about cost against what extra enhancements you get, so yes I would love to but the cost at the moment is a put off. apart from the extra 8gb, what would you say is better than the Ameo?
P.S dont tell the X7500 guys, I may get banned, talking to the X7510 lot and admitting to owning a Uni
Regards
Jay

responderman said:
P.S dont tell the X7500 guys, I may get banned, talking to the X7510 lot and admitting to owning a Uni
Regards
Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We all have our little secrets
TBH if I hadn't got an X7510 (XDA Flint) free from O2, I would probably not consider upgrading from the X7500 apart from the fact that it's newer and less battered
The extra 8GB is nice but not essential for me, and there is always the miniSD for expansion.
In some ways the X7510 is a retrograde step- the lack of a joystick is a total PITA as there is no way to manually navigate some programs without executing a screen click.
The keyboard is a big improvement, but TouchPal is so good that I very rarely use the physical keyboard. The X7500 ROMs by Michy et all are every bit as good as the X7510 ROMs- no surprise I suppose as the hardware is identical in most respects.

I'd second all the good reviews of the XDA Shift (HTC Advantage X7510 with an O2 case). I've had two, yes count them, two XDA Execs (HTC universal with O2 case) because I couldn't find a device which was as universally adaptable as the Exec for several years. (did you see what I did there?)
With the addition of an external bluetooth GPS receiver and a bluetooth headset I had everything I needed. A decent size screen, hardware QWERTY keyboard (which is a must for me as I'm a writer, in fact my last novel was written almost exclusively on the Execs) Sat Nav (via tomtom nav 6) games, phone, browser, media player, and all-round super gadget in a clam shell with tablet mode swivel screen! Then my second Exec broke (from extreme over-use) and I had no option of a replacement as O2 no longer stocked them :-(
Then I discovered the Flint...
It has all of the benefits of the Exec but with more memory, bigger screen, built in GPS, and funky magnetics to boot! Admittedly it has no vibrate function, and O2 de-activate the G-sensor in their ROM (both of which I'm certain are functions that can be re-activated with cooked ROMS -at least I'm sure I've read on this here forum of such things being achieved- am I right?), but the benefits really outweigh these small issues for me.
So as a user who sang the praises of the XDA Exec for several years, I can say that the XDA Flint is a superb progression and excellent replacement device, well worth the £50/month contract to get it free (which includes unlimited data and texts, and 950 mins! -no, I don't work for O2).
(HTC and O2-you can pay me later

Hi Thintin- glad you like your Flint.
The G-sensor thing with O2 is odd. Some examples have a working hardware even with the O2 ROM though it needs G-Sen or similar to activate it. But some examples need a new, cooked ROM to get the G-sensor working and a small number seem to have it physically removed.
As one of a small group of pre-release testers for O2 we had a number of discussions about this- O2's line was that they requested NO G sensor in the hardware build, but HTC only did that with a small number. My 1st one definitely didn't have it, not did it have a working sub display. A replacement had both working with the O2 ROM, though a colleague never got subdisplay working, and another colleague never got the Gsensor working.
O2's Flint ROM is actually pretty good. It's very basic, but all the better for that. However, Michy's Lite WM6.1 is so much better

NeilM said:
...O2's Flint ROM is actually pretty good. It's very basic, but all the better for that. However, Michy's Lite WM6.1 is so much better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm hoping my device falls into the category of having the g-sensor, my sub-display works fine (I'm assuming this is the display that can be seen through the keyboard's letterbox shaped portal when the device is closed?). Glad to hear that Mitchy's lite ROM is better than the O2 one because I'm planning on flashing it soon.

Great vibrate ringtone
This works like a charm...