The ultimate question of all.. the button vs the stylus.
My dad had his eyes on my phone, but he is a bit reluctant to spend too much on the phone without really knowing if he is going to fully utilize the organiser/pda-like features. He spotted some other phone like the Motorola MPx220 , which is within his budget range. However, once I've mentioned that it is not a touchscreen type phone, he seems to be very disappointed.
So, I'm wondering, in the world of Windows enabled phone, how much difference is a button based and a touchscreen based.
I personally would prefer a touchscreen as oppose a button based one, as I think you can do all button based with the ultimate stylus. However, after using the touchscreen based, I do sometimes missed the buttons one, where I can really type SMS in lighting speed, and do almost everything at a relatively faster speed than stylus (note: I'm comparing my Charmer with a Nokia 3310, which may not be a good comparison as the Nokia has a blackwhite screen which has very good respond time for everything you do).
So, whats your thought? Would love to hear from those with experience with both type of phones. Not to bias opinion, but I guess most will be going from button to stylus, I wonder if any of you goes from stylus to button?
Why not enjoy both worlds:
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,49475
Would be nice if there were more devices like this.
Seriously though, it isn't just about buttons vs. stylus.
The interface it self is a bit different and you just won't find the same software for Smartphones as you would for PPC based devices.
The security is a lot tighter as well.
But, coming back to buttons, here's what I really hated when I got to try the MPx200 and the imate SP5:
The insesive button mushing you need to get from point a to point b. On a regular cellphone it's just SMS and calls, but here you got tons of functionality and navigating all the menus and different dialog controls without a stylus is way too uncomfortable (at least for me).
Example: you can't scroll through the start menu icon by icon, if you want an option that is not on screen you have to click next for the second screen and so on.
Well that's all my opinion.
Try www.spv-developers.com, I am sure they will have plenty of reasons to switch from PPC based to SP based device.
Related
Mine would be as follows:
Form Factor:
Similar to My Mogul that I have now. The Keyboard is perfect, the slide is perfect. The size is perfect (could maybe be a little thiner, but that might make the hinge less sturdy). The weight is just about right, but I could go for a little lighter. What I'd really like is for the screen to be moved up a little and to have a full numeric keypad on the front kinda like the HTC Wings (might have to make it a little longer, but I can deal with that). This would make one hand operation easier and would allow for one handed text messaging. Also, I'd like for the screen to be flush with the device (like the touch) and not recessed. This screen would also have to be no smaller than 2.8 inches, though I'd really like to see a 3.5 like the iPhone. Finally, I'd like a hardware switch for switching the phone to vibrate. Other than that, I love the form factor of my mogul.
Specs:
I'm not too specific on the specs. I just want it so that the device will always be almost immediately responsive (again like the iPhone). The delay on the UI is "Garbage!!" (I'm an Oklahoma State University alumni, so I got to quote Mike Gundy). Hopefully that will get resolved with HTC soon enough.
As for the rest, I'd want the norm of GPS, Wifi, 3G/4G internet, a long battery life like that of the iPhone, microSD (I had been pissed new formats on each new device, but they are so cheap now it's stupid to complain), a quality camera (mega-pixel is less important than quality), a VGA cam on the front for video conferencing (just would be fun), and finally and most importantly a VGA resolution screen!!! We are long overdo for something better than QVGA and it looks like this year will finally begin to bring it.
OS:
Windows Mobile 6.1 would be fine for starters, but what I really want to see is Android on there. However, once Google publicly releases the Code they'll be porting to every decently popular device out there, so I'm sure I'd be fine on that.
Anyway, that's what I want. I can't really think of a much better device. They've already gotten pretty good, but there is a little ways yet to go. The two things I want the most are that numeric keypad on the front and the VGA resolution screen.
Of all the devices I have ever held, the Touch felt the best in my hands. I haven't see a TC yet, but something about that touch.
My first "geekphone" was the motorola e680i, still one the best non wm phones out there. It had something every touchscreen phone should have, a hardware switch to lock the device. infinitely useful and brilliantly simple.
I have been pretty satisfied with my Hermes (had it just about 2 years now!)
I am wondering for those that also came from that device or from a Kaiser, how do you like the Touch Pro in comparison? I'm eligible for an upgrade but don't know if this is the phone to get or not....i thought it was, but have been reading some less than great threads so i just wanted some comments from people who went through a comparable situation. Thanks!
it was the best move i ever made, only thing is the bat life could be better.
After the tweaks, pretty happy.
Only issue(s) I have remaining are:
Voice Command/Bluetooth...If incoming announcements are on, the phone
sort of rings once, sort of announces, but when you answer, the other party
can hear you, but you cannot hear them, you have to switch the call to the
phone, power off the headset, and power it back on.
GPS slow. GPS is a little quirky at times. Once in a while it fails to lock, but
if you run the HTC test tool for the GPS, it fires right up.
Battery isn't an issue for me, I'm one of those if it is below 2 bars, it goes
on the charger, and, sometimes I use a remote control program because I have
a friend that would rather text than talk on the phone, so it is easier than using the keyboard or stylus to send SMS.
Touchflo3D could use a little tweaking, which has been done, and looks like it is getting better and better.
I don't "play games/videos/MP3s" on my phone, so I can't help you on that
part, but the screen is improved, keyboard is improved, camera is MUCH
faster.
About the only thing I miss is the tilt for the screen.
I would say the main thing to keep in mind is the TouchPro isn't really an upgrade to the Hermes or Kaiser. Its a whole new style of phone that takes some getting used to. The main similarity is of course the keyboard. The biggest change is the lack of hardware buttons. Gone are the softkeys, you now have to touch the screen. Gone is the messaging & IE buttons. The worst part is the messaging button, you now cannot just keep clicking this button to scroll through all your email/sms/mms accounts. There is no longer a dedicated start menu button, you have to touch the screen to launch the start menu. Its been replaced with a "home" button, which to me is useless. As on the old phones I could hit start 2x and go home. Gone is the scroll wheel on the side. Its been replaced with 2 volume buttons, which I never use because I keep my phone on maximum volume. There is no dedicated camera button. There is no dedicated Comm Manager button.
So personally I hate to see the iPhone trend influencing HTC phone designs. I like buttons and need buttons. This phone takes some getting used to. It is a good phone still, but could be so much better with more buttons.
copex said:
it was the best move i ever made, only thing is the bat life could be better.
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I agree. I think the VGA screen brings a real revolution to mobile devices. It's just superior in so many ways to the old displays that I definitely never ever want a device without VGA again.
The biggest minus for me is the faulty GPS implementation. But I still hope that it's not a hardware issue and that it can an will be fixed by some xda-dev sooner or later.
TriAxisFL said:
So personally I hate to see the iPhone trend influencing HTC phone designs. I like buttons and need buttons. This phone takes some getting used to. It is a good phone still, but could be so much better with more buttons.
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That's true! The home button is extremely useless and I also miss the extra buttons very much. In the first days/weeks it felt like a step backwards to me because where in the past I just had to push an hardware button I now had to push a software butten in best case or even had to navigate somewhere before I could push some softbutton.
But I got used to it and managed to reconfigure the device so that all important functions are now just one (soft)-click away.
i love the device, but i miss the tilt screen... :
and i wish there were more buttons to assign to my own preferences (yes i know there are tools, but it's not as good as with the 'real' buttons...)
i love that the flat screen - you can touch things in the edges very easy now
all in all - i don't regret the upgrade
DeepThought said:
I agree. I think the VGA screen brings a real revolution to mobile devices. It's just superior in so many ways to the old displays that I definitely never ever want a device without VGA again.
The biggest minus for me is the faulty GPS implementation. But I still hope that it's not a hardware issue and that it can an will be fixed by some xda-dev sooner or later.
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Da_G is working on such a fix right now. He's using ported GPS drivers from the Blackstone, and it appears to make quite a difference.
NotATreoFan said:
Da_G is working on such a fix right now. He's using ported GPS drivers from the Blackstone, and it appears to make quite a difference.
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Great news, thanks for letting me know!
Is there already some thread about his attempts? Or is it currently in the "private beta testing" stage?
I upgraded from the Tilt.
Day1 = I wanted my Tilt back
Missed Tilt Scree
GPS SLOW
Really missed all the bottuns
After a couple of weeks (and of course a cooked ROM) I have to admit I am really happy I upgraded. As others stated the screen resolution is great. Performance seems to be better as well. I still have some gripes ( fingerprint magnet, small keyboard) but I think overall the improvements outweigh the issues. My advise would be to go for it but also make sure you give it time before you judge. If I had to make a return decision in 24 hours I most likely would have returned it for the Tilt. A week or two later and you would have to pry my Fuze out of my cold dead hands!
I want the raphael hardware in a kaiser body.
I think that pretty much sums up my feelings
DeepThought: currently testing out the ported blackstone drivers in my ROM. I'd make cabs but unfortunately windows mobile is paranoid so wont load them They have to be cooked into a ROM for the moment. I'm in the process of uploading the OEM/SYS/ROM from my latest build so chefs can see the changes I made and yoink it if it works.. 40 minutes left on that upload!
I consider it the best phone I've owned if you require a keyboard.
It feels better in the hand than the Kaiser did. I love the flush screen so you can touch edges easily (I missed that after having the Vogue on Sprint). The VGA screen is great.
I don't really miss the hardware buttons. I used a Vogue and it had less buttons than the TP has. On the Kaiser, I didn't really use them anyway. I just use the programs tab in TF3D. I replaced the shortcuts or the PTT button (on the ATT Fuze), so now a short press launches the Comm Manager (to turn on WiFi) and a long press launches the camera.
I haven't really had any GPS issues. It doesn't get a fix indoors usually, where my Kaiser did. It takes a little longer to get a fix outside, and depending on the app I'm using I might have to use the HTC GPS Tool first. I don't have much lag.
I don't really need a hardware keyboard...its nice to have, but I don't do much typing on it and I find myself using the soft keyboard more rather than pulling out the other one. Since the Touch HD (Blackstone) looks thinner, if ATT ever got that phone, I think that might be the ultimate for me since I would rather have a thin device rather than a hardware keyboard.
Not that these things haven't been brought up already but this is my opinion. First off I am happy to have upgraded to the Raphael from the Kaiser. Things that lived up to or exceeded my expectations are the screen, capacitive touch lower region, and TF3D to name a few. The things that need to be worked out are battery life and gps. To a great extent, Lumos and Touchlock Pro have extended my battery life tremendously, but it is still not on par with my Tilt. My major gripe is GPS. I drove around for over an hour with the phone on my lap in clear skies and never locked onto satellites. That is horrible. I am very eager to see what Da_G is cooking up on this front. MY MAJOR GRIPE is fit and finish related. The battery cover for my Fuze is loose and I do not care for the shiny multi-angled design. I am going to buy the regular Touch Pro cover as soon as someone puts up a picture that matches the description. I had the Tilt for over a year and it had excellent design and build. I think they should have carried that over to the Fuze.
DeepThought said:
Great news, thanks for letting me know!
Is there already some thread about his attempts? Or is it currently in the "private beta testing" stage?
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The thread is actually about fixing MSVC, but he mentions the GPS drivers also.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=445204
I also posted a cab in this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=426433&page=17
But it doesnt work due to the same driver signing issues with the MSVC fix..
Loving my Fuze, I upgraded from the Tilt. Only concern is the repeatedly mentioned GPS issue which I'm glad to hear that Da_G is working on.
Seems like most everyone is happier with the TP, even if there are still a few things to be desired...i know i too will miss some of the buttons, but that screen does sound delicious
I would bet that all the kinks will get knocked out entirely by early next year and it'll be running like a whole new phone
AT&T Tilt -> HTC Fuze
Best switch ever!! I love everything about the fuze except that its' enter button is too big and it's del button is a bit small =/ I got used to it though.
After proudly using most of the AT&T/Cingular/AT&T HTC devices (Wallaby->Blue Angel->Wizard->Hermes->Kaiser->Raphael), this has been the most exciting upgrade.
The VGA screen is an amazing change. I miss some of the hardware buttons, but the flat touch screen is helping the TouchFlo interface wean me off of the buttons. I also do not miss the tilting screen as much as I thought I would. I do miss not having the scroll wheel on the side, but I am getting used to touch ring.
Performance on the stock ROM was disappointing. I was planning on running the stock ROM for a while before loading a cooked ROM, but after one day, I could not take it anymore. I am now running NATF's 2.2 ROM, and I could not be happier.
So far, I have inspired three upgrades from the Tilt to the Fuze among co-workers.
from a beetle to a Porshe
Raphael is way better than hermes. dome many changes to registry, antena, touchflo 3d, and performance ugrades, to have it running great.
Why aren't there more dual-flip windows phones?
I have a Motorola Mpx, and love it... http://www.mobileburn.com/gallery.jsp?Id=666
Heck, if it weren't for the phone's hardware limitations I'd likely not use my Tilt ever. Fits in the hand better, its got an easier to use keyboard, and its way more comfortable for making calls on.
Now Samsung comes out with the Alias 2, which also looks awesome. BUT, its for Sprint, not GSM carriers, and its not WinMo.
http://samsungmobileusa.com/Alias2.aspx?cid=ppc_mac_goo_Past+Iconic_Alias+2_samsung+Alias+2
There is something about flipping a phone open, and being able to press actual numbers without any on-screen nonsense needed.
I mean, is it really that unpopular a form factor?
Or is there a phone out there I don't know about?
Wow, I'm really the only one here who has an opinion on this?
(aka, it fell off the first page... lol)
not really my taste
too many moving parts which could break
and the keyboard look like a mess but
each to their own
Yeh, I was flipping a phone open with motorola 10 years ago...would never do again! You might be able to find some on pdadb.net
Did either of you click the links? Especially the second one?
Do you believe that clicking function or alt or using some tiny or unusable on-screen keyboard is better than a full keyboard that auto-adjusts to what you need?
I hate not being able to dial without a stylus and/or looking at the damn phone.
Yet I still want/need a WinMo phone (and it seems that dialing and intuitive keypads and WinMo are mutually exclusive)
I'm a two year Kaiser user and have been happy with it generally. But the small screen and resolution, plus sluggish CPU is making me want to upgrade.
However HTC (and seemingly other manufacturers) seem to be shifting all UI interaction to the screen only (practically). I know I'm not the only one saddened by this, as d-pads and jog dials have their place and offer guaranteed responsiveness and precision which no screen tech can easily match. Unless you have fingers that look like stylii and a permanently steady hand.
Anyway, I'm just interested to hear if there are other people out there wishing for a Touch Pro 3 / Leo / Kaiser hybrid? Nice big screen, Snapdragon but a little d-pad squirrelled away at the bottom and jogger on the side. I wouldn't mind the phone being a bit longer to make it all fit.
Oh and I'm a business user and can appreciate that on a device like the Leo aimed more at the mass-market, the missing buttons aren't so important. But I think the Touch Pro line could do with them.
More than agree!
hardware keyboard is a must for me also, 2 lines of production I can see:
One for more multimedia non professional use like Leo and the second with more business capabilities like the keyboard
I´m sure TP3 will come out with larger screen, snapdragon and more surprises, but we have to wait at least 6 months for that.
just my opinion
Here some possible options:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=556749
i agree completely !
one of the things that i hate about mobile phone design is that everyone thinks that to make a better phone than the iphone you have to copy it rather than take the best ideas and improve on them.
i'm eagerly awaiting news of the touch pro 3 (rather than the touch hd2 / leo) because a hardware keyboard is important to me - i'm hoping that they'll include a scroll wheel and d-pad like my old kaiser in a form factor of my current xperia with a decent processor and the latest version of tf3d. they're all htc devices so it shouldn't be too hard ...
I agree, too. I still use my iPaq 210 daily not only because of the 4in screen, but for the dpad. It just doesn't feel like a pda without one. I would actually prefer phones to come wit jog dials on the side, but that's just a personal preference. How are we supposed to get anything done without them? I recently got a TD2, and while i like it, i don't think I will ever have it replace both my phone and PDA for lack of buttons. The main reason my BA was used so long was for all of its buttons.
I'm surprised to see people sticking up for jog dials -- I'd argue that the dial on my Kaiser is terrible, and WM doesn't handle 'em well anyways.
Dpads are nice, though. I'm particularly fond of the "stealth" pad on the Touch Pro.
At the same time, they're getting less and less useful. As more and more apps are designed to be finger-friendly, the usefulness of the dpad will decrease. I already find myself using it much less than I did, say, two years ago.
I agree that they are being used less in programs, but honestly how could you like the touch pro dpad? It is probably the worst i've ever used
typo said:
As more and more apps are designed to be finger-friendly, the usefulness of the dpad will decrease. I already find myself using it much less than I did, say, two years ago.
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Finger friendliness is one thing, but buttons just can't be beaten in some cases. E.g. I use Profimail for email and when replying, I often need to position the text cursor (?) at the very top. If I do this with a finger it's very tricky to get it in the right place. Or positioning the cursor between the words for adding / removing characters etc. is easier with a D-pad. Or when walking and wanting to do things on the phone without giving the full concentration you'd need by focussing on and positioning your finger on the display.
I agree though the usefulness is decreasing but I just don't think it will ever decrease to the point the D-Pad should be removed, but HTC obviously do.
But people are concentrating on the benefits of faster cpus and forgetting the drawbacks of slower input.
I love the openness of Android, the apps of IOS and the look of Windows Phone, however on their own, I'm not fond of any of them. I do have to say though since Android supports Flash Player, it would be the one I choose as when I had an Android phone I loved being able to stream from Desktop Sites. I sold my GS2 last year because I walked out on my job and needed the quick cash to get me by until I found a new one. So I've been using a temporary Nokia Symbian Phone since then as as I've got my upgrade now, I really need to get something that isn't on Symbian.
The weird thing is though, since using the device and since trying a HTC One in a shop, I do not like the HTC One because I prefer the build of this Nokia. I found the big screen of the HTC One difficult to deal with, I had to either slide it around on my hand or use two. The Power button is in the worst place possible, to unlock the phone you need to use two hands again and there is no tactile button that the GS2 had to unlock it that way instead. Speaking of that I hate touch screen or capacitive touch buttons, they're just horrible, I want proper tactile buttons, they feel much better and you don't hit them by accident all the time. The HTC One doesn't have a dedicated camera button either, like most Smart Phones these days, having used the Nokia for so long, it's so much better being able to press a real button instead of having to look at the screen all the time.
I don't like how the One or many other smart phones are so light and thin either. I don't feel like I have anything of value, there is no weight in my hand and I feel like I could forget it's there or have it slip out of my hand by mistake. The phone didn't feel comfortable either, I could get a nice grip and because it was so big, to have a good grip I would have to use a second hand the whole time, which makes the phone pointless IMO. I also don't like how the speaker grills had a gap in them, I don't like how they don't sit flush to the screen, what kept happening is my finger kept running over the bump of the speaker grills and the screen when I swiped up or down.
What I realized is these screens are so high res now and are so massive that Android doesn't function well and needs a redesign. Many UI elements are far too small on the screen, I found myself tapping the screen several times to get it to register where I wanted to hit. I found myself having to use two hands to be able to reach something on the other side of the screen. Windows Phone fixes this with the big tiles, which is why I liked testing it out, however Windows Phone has less apps than Symbian lol....
I cannot find a phone that I want to upgrade to.......
I keep thinking that the 920 delivers most of what I want, however capacitive touch buttons instead of tactile, lack of apps and no Flash player on Windows Phone kills it. There is no Android hardware that really appeals to me at all, the main problem is all the flagships are now 4.7-5 inches which is way too big and if you get a smaller one, you feel like you're getting the bastard child. The iPhone 5 is almost perfect, however it's too thin and light and IOS has no flash support and I hate iTunes with a passion, you have to wait ages for a jailbreak now.
I just want Nokia to make a Lumia 930 or whatever, have tactile buttons at the bottom, updated specs and for Microsoft to bring Flash Player to Windows Phone and then I'd be happy with going for that. Sadly I cannot find anything that exists right now that I like.
Consider not caring about cutting edge?
Many "old" units are still being produced/sold that could fit your needs better, where is the need for the very latest?
I'll never take my chance on anything else than a flagship device unless they get across the board good reviews, but they don't have to be the newest, I'd actually go from SGS1 TO SGS2 now if it wasn't for some minor details I don't like about it.
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