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Hi everybody
Ive been around thousand of threads on xda-dev and couldn't find any official one for Anti-Virus. That's the main reason why I'm starting this new thread and also because Anti-Virus on Pocket PC are growing more and more. Actually we are not safe but we don't care until we get infected and that will be too late, with most of the time the only solution a hard reset.
Let's discuss and compare in this thread the different Anti-Virus SW available on the market today, and bring out positive/negative points based on our experience. It will be benifit for everybody ...
I know everyone hates Norton/Symantec but I was on the beta testing team for Norton Smartphone Security Premier Edition since day one and it is very friendly and easy to use.
http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/beta/overview.jsp?pvid=nssp1beta
Actually I was using Symanter antivirus for handheld on my QTEK 2020i WM2003SE and that's true it is user friendly and worked fine, with virus definitions updates very ofently.
I was unable to install it on my HTC Athena WM6
Do you know is there is any version coming for WM6 Pumpiron?
I checked you link and it's different from what I used to have on my old device.
Ill download this beta and try it.
I'll let you know what I think about it, if it slow down the machine etc ...
It did not on mine and when I uninstalled it, it was gone...no traces..part of the beta testing. I did uninstall from my desktop, not my PPC
I am curios, how does this effect your device speed and performance?
What is the CPU and memory usage (in reality, not what stated on the site)?
I have Symantec on my XP PC and it sucks big time (does the job for the most part, but very slow and heavy).
eTrust came pre-installed on my Jamin, but that is an even bigger atrocity!
Another question - do they have a list for PPC viruses on their site like they do for PC ones?
The only PPC virus I heard of was a harmless proof of concept that could make files display a pop-up message and did not reproduce.
If real viruses for WM systems are already out there (I know its a only matter of time) I would be interested in reading up on them to know what I am facing.
Also, anyone actually caught a virus on a WM machine and can share the experience?
Here are my first impressions:
1 - The Startup time of my Athen after a soft reset has increased by around 20 sec, this because Symantec is loading on the startup.
2 - I didn't noticed a slow down during normal utilization of the device, but it's really early before concluding on that point because I need to try different applications.
3 - When I first connected to the Internet via WiFi, even the connection were established, could not load the pages having an error "page not found"
but after 15sec everything is back to normal and connections to Internet was not a problem at all.
4 - I just suffered a Freeze but not sure it is due to Symantec, because i've been suffering frequent daily freezes on my Athena since I upgraded to WM6.
But the freeze came this time while using the Antivirus SW
5 - The package is composed by an AntiVirus, a Firewall, a Norton Secure Folders utility and a Norton Tools utility.
6 - Also note that after finish installing it, it force you to set a pin code that you will have to enter everytime you soft reset your device. I tried to disable it but it won't let you do it
I'll give more details about the package in a different post after some testing
levenum said:
I am curios, how does this effect your device Another question - do they have a list for PPC viruses on their site like they do for PC ones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can check the list from the SW installed on the PPC
Just applied live update over WiFi and basically there are 5 in the list:
EICAR-TEST-FILE
WinCE.Duts.A
Backdoor.Brador.A
Trojan.Redbrowser.A!jar
MSIL.Cxover.A
Definitions : 04/06/07 ver 2.0
As promised, here is my feedback on the tools provided in the package:
1 - Norton Antivirus
Very friendly and easy to use, from the menu u can access the options for the Antivirus, the Scans, the AntiSpam, Updates and Proxy config. You can also access the quanrantined files, the activity log and the virus definitions list. Manual scan and automatic scan can be performed.
2 - Norton Firewall
I didn't really understood how we use the Firewall function. Basically when you start it you have a tab showing the security level. It is have different security levels for World (the highest), Office, Home and Open Sapce Networks (the lowest). Also you can not modify them at all. You can access a second tab called Events by severity in last and a third tab "Event list" which show in details all the events that happened on your device, like soft reset, login success .... very weird as we can not reset this list, also we can not change any parameter in the Norton Firewall, everything is set by default
3 - Norton Secure Folders
from what I guessed, this utility allow you to choose folders on your device and set them as secure. I don't know what it does exactly but I think it should encrypt the data inside the folder so it's protected in case you have been attacked by a trojan who collects your data and send it to the pirate.
You click on menu->Add->then you choose from the list Device, Mircrodrive or Storage Card if you have one. Then you type the name of the folder you want to secure.
I did a test, I choosed Device, and kept the folder name blank and clicked on ok. It added the "secure folder" under device. if you try to remove it you will have this warning "Removing the secure folder will destroy all data in the folder. do you really want to remove it?"
4 - Norton Tools
It contains 2 utilities, GetUUID and Lock
GetUUID will display on the screen 2 series of digites
the first one don't know what it is and second one is your IMEI
I guess this info is needed when the final version is released and
you need to register the SW
Lock utility display the following message when u click on it
Encryption may take several minutes. Pls wait for the device to power off.
If you need to soft reset, pls wait until encryption is completed and the
device powers itself off.
I clicked on yes, so the device start encrypting something .... then the screen turned off. I turned it on using the power button and it displayed to me the password screen which I entered. then it displayed the message decrypting for about 30 sec, then I had my normal today screen ...
Im wondering if it does not encrypt/decrypt the secure folders you
already chosen using the "Norton Secure Folders" utility.
Ive wrote to Symantec asking them for a manual or user guide, hopefully they will reply.
I have rated this SW 3/5 on their site, mainly because it is not clear what all utilities does and because Firewall is set by default and noting can be changed.
Hope my feedback will be usefull, and I hope other users will bring to us their experiences with the different Anti-Virus SW they have used on their Pocket PCs.
Just as I suspected, no real viruses just a nice proof of concept that asks you if you want to try it:
WinCE.Duts.A
A back door that needs to be run and does not spread:
Backdoor.Brador.A plus it would be useless if you are on GPRS/EDGE/UMTS or behind a NUT router.
This one seems like it could actually be trouble, if:
a) you leave in Russia
b) you are stupid enough to believe you can get WAP pages through SMS and that it would be cheaper than GPRS
c) you can get it to work on PPC.
Trojan.Redbrowser.A!jar
This one though, I have to admit is rather clever - using .NET to run both on PC and PPC amd is fairly destructive:
MSIL.Cxover.A
It is still unclear, however how its spreads from PC to PC (presumably you have to download and install / run it).
Of course given the fact that many people save their docs on SD and not the default My documents folder and that they do not disable security completely on their WM 5 and up devices (which are becoming majority these days) the effectiveness of this worm is more than questionable.
Well I still think it is too early to actually by this kind of apps. Also I think that as with many other programs the same "heavy" approach that works on PCs with many resources will not work well on PPC (not the way they are today). A different solution to virus protection needs to be found to be useful.
But hey - thats just my opinion...
So from what ive read its still to early to be using a resource draining av on the ppc? If this is the case, how about Spybot S&D? Is spyware more of a threat than viruses? are they really that much different? I find that spybot updates more regularly(when i connnect wifi).
as with virus's i believe that have to be made to support ppc's
in which case maybe due to spyware makers lack of innovation
that market have yet to take off
WingChan: whether to use the software or not is a personal decision - my belief is: given the list of threats it is too early. Also I believe that the method used to protect against viruses on PC is not suitable for PPC because of the resource requirement. Something more efficient needs to be invented, perhaps taking advantage of difference in architecture between WM and desktop - like the fact that system files can not be corrupted but only hidden.
Note that BigDede preformed the test on HTC Advantage which has a 600+ MHz processor if I am not mistaken. I doubt the app would be as unnoticeable on my 200MHz Prophet.
But it is only a matter of time before someone writes a real and damaging virus for this platform as it becomes more and more common. So if you really value the info you have on there you might want to get protection already - although a good and frequent backup would be much better.
I haven't heard of spyware for Windows Mobile, only major one for BB - any one got any news on this?
There is a major difference between spyware and viruses:
Viruses try to cause as much damage as possible and their effects always become visible sooner or later, in many cases almost immediately after infection.
Spyware on the other hand, needs to hide and tries not to interfere in device operation as much as possible and show no sign of activity.
levenum said:
WingChan:
There is a major difference between spyware and viruses:
Viruses try to cause as much damage as possible and their effects always become visible sooner or later, in many cases almost immediately after infection.
Spyware on the other hand, needs to hide and tries not to interfere in device operation as much as possible and show no sign of activity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good explanation of the differences between Viruses and Spywares.
I agree also that it is too early today to really worry about having protection, but I prefer to be ready instead of regretting and wishing I had some protection.
Very good remark as well regarding the frequent backup ...
Need Help
Hello Everyone,
I'm not a developer, but I found your thread on this subject via Google and was hoping I could ask a question...
I'm able to download the Norton Smartphone Security Premier Edition Beta version, but when I try to install it (which I assume must be done first to my laptop, followed by sync'ing my laptop with my 8525) a "Self-Extracting Archive" window comes up that says: "Warning, one or more files skipped". This occurs when the installation process reaches "Extracting: SUPPORT\START.ICO 100%".
Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?
Many thanks for your time!
A. J.
ajbt said:
Hello Everyone,
I'm not a developer, but I found your thread on this subject via Google and was hoping I could ask a question...
I'm able to download the Norton Smartphone Security Premier Edition Beta version, but when I try to install it (which I assume must be done first to my laptop, followed by sync'ing my laptop with my 8525) a "Self-Extracting Archive" window comes up that says: "Warning, one or more files skipped". This occurs when the installation process reaches "Extracting: SUPPORT\START.ICO 100%".
Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?
Many thanks for your time!
A. J.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi
Maybe this warning is not a big deal, have you tried to install it by double clicking on the start.exe file ???
G.S./BigDede,
Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it.
If I understand your recommendation, I don't think that gets me where I need to be. However, it could always be user error on my part.
When I try to "Setup" the file I downloaded (called "NSSPB.exe") from Symantec, a window comes up that contains a button that says "Install". However, after I click on it, it gets to a point in the installation process that shows "Extracting: SUPPORT\START.ICO 100%", and the process simply stops and a small window comes up that says: "Warning, one or more files skipped".
In essence, it appears I have recieved the entire 4.04 MB of program files I downloaded, but something goes askew when I try to extract/install them.
I'm stumped...
Thanks again, A.J.
I'll extract the files and will zip them for you.
Send me via PM your email adress so I can send you the zip file
Cheers
There are a lot of great things on this web site, but not much for the real newbie. This submission is to help newbies get up to speed. The concepts and some details here can help almost any newbie with any PDA.
I’ve worked with computers for 30 years since they were driven by “audio cassette” tapes. BUT I’m a PDA newbie! When I got my PDA, a Cingular 8525 (HTC Hermes), I compared it to my last cell phone and was amazed that it had a color screen. I had no clue how I was supposed to get it to do what I wanted it to do. Since I‘m retired, I spent long hours on many days researching, finding free software, and learning and doing things to make it what I wanted. These are the results. I’m not going to go into all the research, just give you the findings and actions. Read your manual or download one from the Internet to learn the very basics of your phone. Try every possible button, menu and program to see what they do. Don‘t be afraid to crash your PDA at this point so long as you know how to do a Hard Reset (HR). I’m not going to give keystrokes on how to find the following data. Just don’t transfer important information to the PDA until later.
First, decide what you need to do versus what you would like it to do. Here’s what I wanted. I travel a lot and wanted a mini computer I could do MS Office work on, access the Internet to take care of business, call home on, find my way in strange locations, and enjoy a little. IOW, do what my desktop does except I wanted to carry it in my pocket.
One thing that will happen while you are doing all the following is that many of the PDA programs will show up as installations in your “Add/Remove Program” program in your Control Panel on your desktop. Since this includes entries going into your registry, it can lead to different problems. I use Norton Ghost back up to totally back up my system drive, let things happen as they will, then restore it back to normal when I’m all done. Then I install only ActiveSync, MyMobiler and Remote Keyboard plus a few others than I want to sync with when I connect occasionally. You should strongly consider doing this yourself.
First, I found out what I had - A full install of WM6 with several programs I really didn’t want and a real problem when I began loading program I wanted - not enough memory. The device says I have 64 Mb of RAM and 128 Mb of Flash memory (this is the “hard disk” storage available). When I looked at memory allocation it said:
Storage Program
Total 44.77 48.77
In Use 10.96 23.55
Free 33.81 25.20
This means out of the 128 Mb of storage 44.77 + 48.77 = 93.54 Mb were available and being used. Where’s the rest? Being taken up by the Extended ROM which holds the installation and system programs you are safer NOT playing with unless you know how to - like RegEdit, Task Manager (not Task), etc. These are system “hidden” files you can play with and really screw up your PDA. With “AdvancedConfiguration” you can set Extended ROM to be read and used. Also, almost ½ of the total available area set aside for Program installation on the hard disk was already used. I tried and found I could NOT delete or move any of the originally loaded files in “Windows” folder. We’re stuck with the bloat.
I haven’t found out for sure but (someone correct me here, please) the Storage seems to be used for a dedicated operating Page File or programs loaded into active operating memory type of work based on how many running programs you have running right now and the Program refers to the actual Flash (hard disk) space set aside for installations. Think of your desktop as having only a 50 Mb hard disk and having to have the operating system, Page File and programs plus storage on it. Doesn’t leave much.
A neat little trick I learned is that when you do a HR and are reinstalling the OS it pauses for 3 seconds with an explanation screen at one point before going on to install other proprietary programs (some of which were junk to me). If you want to know what was different, back up all your personal data and do a HR and let it run fully. Check all the Settings and Programs screens to write down what you have. Do it again but push the Soft Reset (SR) pin in the hole when it gets to that 3 second pause and let it reboot. It will stop the extended installation. When you do this you will find the numbers are now:
Storage Program
Total 44.77 48.77
In Use 5.77 22.85
Free 39.00 25.92
IOW, you cut your Page File use (running programs loaded into memory) by ½ but you didn’t really change what was taking up your Flash memory. That’s because during the install every program is loaded into the “Windows” directory and then installed or not. If not installed, they just sit there and can’t be deleted or moved.
In order to change this memory bloat I had to find a different way. The only way I could find was to “cook” my phone and hope it didn’t turn into a “brick” to throw away or send back to the factory for a fix. I began looking at what was available. Keep in mind that I had written down ALL the programs installed by WM6 full and WM6 Lite (fast SR at 3 second screen). I had decided what I would like to have and what I didn’t need or want. This is important to do before this next step.
I am very experienced at installing lots of OSs over the years from CP/M (really, really old), DOS, Windows XT up to Windows XP (very different from XT) and tweaking the hell out of them. Doing it on the PDA had me a little concerned because it’s so tiny and different (so what, right?). I learned that it really is about the same as my desktop in setup and running. The first time I did it, I was worried and then surprised at how easy and straight forward it was. If you are concerned about this step and have this particular PDA, go to http://www.america.htc.com/support/8525/software-downloads.html , download the most current OS and do an install from your desktop to PDA with it. If your phone bricks send it to the factory, it’s their system. Once you’ve done it, it’s much less worrying. If you have a different phone do a little Google research and/or read more on this forum for your particular phone.
I researched different ROM cooks to see what they had compared to what I wanted. I came up with Shamanix and K-Flex as most likely for me. Their installs went just as easily and safely as the WM6 did. Don’t look at just the pretty colors, look at what programs they have and how they function doing what you want. Do some “WM6 FREE SOFTWARE” Google searches to find out what is available out there and what you can get it to do. Here are the test results with both Full install and Lite install:
Shamanix K-Flex
Full Lite Full Lite
Total 66.18 50.77 66.18 50.77 66.80 44.77 66.80 44.77
In Use 2.66 21.00 2.63 18.77 9.11 28.52 2.78 23.19
Free 63.52 29.77 63.55 31.99 57.69 20.25 64.01 25.70
FIRST - Now 66.18 + 50.77 = 110.95 for Shamanix and 66.80 + 44.77 = 111.57 for K-Flex versus only 93.54 Mb for WM6. Suddenly the OS installation files squeezed out an extra 18 Mb of Flash storage for other things. That’s a LOT when many programs average as little as 200 Kb (fit 90 in that free space). Next, K-Flex used almost as much Flash (hard disk) storage as WM6 but Shamanix only used 18.77 in the Lite install which freed up almost 6 Mb for more programs.
Sounds good, right? Remember, check what each OS provides, how you like the looks and what you want on you PDA. Since camera, media and online gaming usage are not important to me, Shamanix Lite is best for me. It still requires a few additional installs to replace what it doesn’t provide but that’s better than the bloat.
(PLEASE CONTINUE ON NEXT REPLY)
2nd half of first post
(Continued from beginning of thread)
Next, I bought a 2 Gb microSD card. That’s great for storage, but I want to install programs to that location, especially the ones I don’t use very often and can run slow safely (cards are much slower than RAM). Save the Flash storage for anything that needs processing speed like music, video, gaming, etc. Once you have a card installed, every time you want to install a program, it asks where to install. If you have access to ER enabled you can select from Device, Extended ROM or Storage Card. Use Storage Card as 1st, and Device 2nd. I tweak installation folders on my desktop but on the PDA you can’t. If it’s going to the Storage Card it will create the proper folder automatically like most Windows installations do in Program Files. Also, if you already have it loaded, it will tell you it must uninstall the prior one before it can install the new one. Actually, they’ve made PDA pretty idiot proof which is a good thing.
Before I go any further, here are two almost mandatory FREE programs you MUST HAVE!!!! MyMobiler and Remote Keyboard can be found many places. Both will allow you to connect your PDA to your desktop with a USB cable and set your PDA aside while you do everything on your desktop. It gives you a copy of the PDA screen on your monitor you can zoom plus use the normal mouse and keyboard on so long as the mouse is hovering over the PDA screen. Sooooo muchchch eeesieeer!!!!!!! In fact, it should be your first two installs before anything else!
Here’s a helpful hit on installing programs. Many times an installation program will come as a .exe file you run from your desktop. What it usually does is extract and create a folder that will hold a couple of files ending in .CAB. Then it will copy the appropriate .CAB to your mobile device. Then it will run the .CAB for installation. The .CAB is the important part. All the rest essentially sets up your desktop to run the .CAB on your PDA. Many times the installation program will be a .ZIP, .RAR, or other compressed file or even a .CAB file. If it’s a compressed file, uncompress it and look for the .CAB. When looking at .CAB files you will often find several with identical names except for the few letters just before the “.CAB”. These are the same but designed for different types of operating systems. I’m sorry I can’t rediscover the link for the details (maybe someone reading this will give us the link later) but I did learn that those with .ARM, .ARM4, Xscale, or rarely PXA, OMAP, or Samsung S3C24xx are for the newer PDAs running WM5 or WM6. Every PPC2000-2003 and every smartphone on the market (at least that I know of) is an ARM device. The others are for older system. If in doubt, try to run each one. The ones that are incorrect will NOT install. Only the one that IS correct will. From then on you will know which type to copy to your PDA. Once copied to a named folder (I use “Install CABs”) on the Storage Card, they can be simply clicked on at any time and installed. To regain memory or stop using it, use “Remove Programs” in Settings/System to get rid of them. You can reinstall anytime later.
One thing I did was move almost all of the CAB files for the programs I wanted to a designated folder on the Storage Card. One suggestion from others is to rename each CAB with a “#-“ in front of the name with the number corresponding to importance of that CAB to you. That way, when you do a reinstall, or HR, out in the field, your CABs are with you and you can see which ones should be loaded first. This works well if there is some conflict with installs one after another. Personally, I haven’t run into that so I rename them to a shorter name that identifies what it is (e.g. in35prtv33.24.arm4.cab becomes PocketPool.cab). The next thing I do is use the settings or preferences in each program to make a folder on the Storage Card the default folder - like My Documents, Favorites, Downloads, etc. Now they won’t be lost if I have to HR the PDA.
Along with the information in the above paragraphs, I do something else because I’m gone when I’m most using my PDA. On the Storage Card (a copy on each card I have) is the installed programs in the normal “Program” folder which are my operating files and a copy of the “Install CABs” folder which also includes a backup of my Contacts. One additional item is a “Serials” folder in the “Install CABs” folder. This has a .txt file of all the registration codes I need plus copies of all the altered (cracked) files I need if I have to reinstall anything on the road. So long as I can Hard Reset my phone, I can reinstall everything back to normal and continue as I need. Since I have several Storage Cards this is on each card. The balance of the Storage cards will have different eBooks, music, DVDs, etc. that don’t all fit on one card. That way, I have several backups of critical files plus entertainment as needed. I use a small dot of different colored paint on the bottom edge of each card so I can tell which card is in the phone at any time.
With all the above, if my PDA freezes or stops working properly, the universal fix-it is to do a Hard Reset. If that doesn’t work, I’m SOL. If it does I’m in business. All I do is a HR (Lite) and soft reset at the 3 second warning. Then I go back into my Storage Card and reinstall those programs I need to get back to where I can work.
Once you have things loaded and working properly, you can consider tweaking the system. During this process you may have found multiple editions of software you want to use like three different registry editors, five different tweak programs, etc. Go ahead and compare and see which ones you want and delete the rest. On a PDA it’s fairly easy. When everything is said and done, you can do a clean HR and only load those specific versions you want and have a fresh, clean, trim system to backup as your first installation process.
Finally, so you can see the results I came up with in this process, here’s a list of the programs I installed. All are on and working. None of them have to be cleared before I can have room to open another one. These are the final versions of similar programs such that there is minimal overlap but expanded utility when more than one is installed.
Sound Pocket Dictate
Mortgage CALC
WkTASK
Touch Caller
Tao Java
GSFinder+
Pocket Mechanic
Adobe Reader
ActiveX Flash 7
Sompy Media Player
enAlarmPPC
True Term Translator
TT Swedish-English
TT Spanish-English
TT Portugese-English
TT Italian-English
TT German-English
TT French-English
Town Compass US Travel Directory
Town Compass DataViewer
Tagalog for Travelers
SKTools
Paris Guide
Metro
mCity Tours
Google Maps
Flashlight Colors
UniSync
Spb Pocket Plus
tGetFile.dll
MIcrosoft .NET CF 2.0
Maufait Instafind
DinaSoft Tap Text
DinaSoft MemMaid
DinaSoft HandyMenu
CallFirewall
Tab Web Viewer (IE)
Dictionary Manager
Schap's Advanced Config 2.0
Yahtz
Warefare Incorporated
Vision Quest
Trivial Pursuit
Super Wild Wild Words
Space Adventure in Infinite Space
Smart Mahjongg
Dames are Trouble Game
Word Mojo
Ultimate Bowling Fighter
Mazera
Mars Need Cows
Hellfire
Bzzz
Realms
1001 Crossword Puzzle
Xplodus
Xonix
Pocket Spades
Patience
JumpyBall
Hot Death Uno
Advanced Lines
Here are my original results on memory usage.
Storage Program
Total 44.77 48.77
In Use 5.77 22.85
Free 39.00 25.92
Here are the final results
Storage Program
Total 66.18 50.77
In Use 36.55 25.77
Free 29.63 25.00
In other words, by opening and freeing the Extended ROM, Putting as much on the Storage Card as possible and applying a few tweaks for caching and folder locations, I still have almost as much of both Storage and Program Memory as I started with to run almost anything without having to remove and reinstall programs on the fly.
It’s a lot easier than you think and idiot proof in most cases. Don’t fear playing with your PDA and making it what you want. Have fun and ENJOY!
Dr. Ken Rich
I have noticed that over certain period the performance of my Kaiser degrades. Considering that it works great even after I install additional software and configure it to sync with exchange 2007, over time it start to act flaky. Could somebody tell me what causes this and how to resolve it?
My guess is it has to do with temporary and cache file used by different applications and os. If so, what should I be getting rid of?
Thanks in advance
rgelfand said:
I have noticed that over certain period the performance of my Kaiser degrades. Considering that it works great even after I install additional software and configure it to sync with exchange 2007, over time it start to act flaky. Could somebody tell me what causes this and how to resolve it?
My guess is it has to do with temporary and cache file used by different applications and os. If so, what should I be getting rid of?
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u need to use some "cleaning tools" like sktools or memmaid. There are options to clear some files(temp. internet, ...) and to free up your ram. Thats the main problem, your ram memory is decreasing over time and the phone is acting slover. To make it quicker is to make softreset after some time or use this tools and free up your ram.
You also can use some tools (apps) which will automatically and periodically do the soft-reset for you,
e.g. during the night your device is unused etc...
You can use tools, I like Sk Tools as it is the most comprehensive tool period. But there are many things you can do manually as well.
Delete the files in: \Application Data\Volatile, also in: \Windows\Profiles\Guest\Cookies; History; & Temporary Internet Files; as well as files in \temp.
GSLEON3 said:
You can use tools, I like Sk Tools as it is the most comprehensive tool period. But there are many things you can do manually as well.
Delete the files in: \Application Data\Volatile, also in: \Windows\Profiles\Guest\Cookies; History; & Temporary Internet Files; as well as files in \temp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to agree with GSLEON3. SKtools was by far the best piece of software I have purchased for my kaiser. It allows easy cleaning, sip changes, today changes, registry editor, and nearly any tool or tweak you can think of.
I suggest you check out their trial and see what you think.
Running Applications
Hi, im considerably new to the whole android development i have a g1 since early december and have upgrade it to the modded JFC 1.31 ADP. I also have the adp spl i think thats what u call it .
My question relates to the running processes/tasks/programs. I am concerned about the amount of programs that run in the background. Is there a way to cut down on this?
I have already removed Calendar, Amazon, Calculator, Calendar Provider seeing as how i do not intend on using these as for calculator i have installed a scientific calculator.
Its more or less Facebook, Craigslist, Imeem. The other bckg progs Gmail, Messaging, Alarm Clock are all smth i use so therefore i have no issue on that but ive tried editing settings on Craigslist, Facebook, Imeem and others to change the update interval and have maxed those out but still tend to run in the background i use the programs but i dont need them to update themselves.
Edit: I have also stopped the auto sync on Calendar, Gmail, Contacts Seeing as for Calendar i dont need it, Gmail i check it often, Contacts i dont use on my gmail service.
Have you got the task manager app from the app store? Thats what I do, and kill all the apps I don't need active.
TimSykes said:
Have you got the task manager app from the app store? Thats what I do, and kill all the apps I don't need active.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes i have, however they keep coming back up!
yeah I know some of them do. to me I don't know why alarm does. I don't even have a alarm set on my phone.
They come back due to the way android handles and saves tasks. The OS will keep resurrecting them thinking they are just dormant and were axed by them.
ArronL said:
They come back due to the way android handles and saves tasks. The OS will keep resurrecting them thinking they are just dormant and were axed by them.
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Click to collapse
So is there a way around this or not?
yeah.. im having the same problem, i shut them all down via task manager, but after like 1 minute i go back in there and they all come back up, is there any way to make them be off permanentally till you use them again?
tbh, the way the android works, if it keeps bringing these programs back they're probably not eating up too much memory.
in fact, no matter how much crap is running in the background i've never experienced any lag or anything. makes me wonder if there's any point in killing apps, except for ones that may be constantly connected to the internet.
Meltus said:
tbh, the way the android works, if it keeps bringing these programs back they're probably not eating up too much memory.
in fact, no matter how much crap is running in the background i've never experienced any lag or anything. makes me wonder if there's any point in killing apps, except for ones that may be constantly connected to the internet.
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Click to collapse
Well i definitely notice a lag, although i agree with you on the applications i removed like 80% of them now just using ones i need and just installed the 1.41 everything works great. But run about 10apps let them run in the bckgs and slide the main application tab on the home screen up and down and scroll through the programs. Then kill about all apps but 3 to account for ones you need and try it again you should most likely notice a difference.
Not on lag but background processes use up battery to, I did a wipe and have like four apps on my phone: aim astro any cut and ak notepad (wow must like A's) but my battery life is noticible better than before, I can go a whole day with out having to charge vs having to charge every few hours
does anyone know of a startup manager for the G1 for EG when i reboot or start up my phone i get a lot of services and programs which i use but do not want to start on boot.
i can use task manager to close them once the phone is started but wouldt be happy for something that disables these from the start.
Has anyone found a way to modify what OEM apps boot at startup?
So using Task Manager for Root Users we get this peek into what's ?running? on our phone. or am i sadly confused..
upon initial boot and after letting the phone boot fully (about 3 minutes) i get this list in my taskmanager..
Task Manager ---not oem
Service Viewer ---not oem
MyFaves storage
Messaging
Voice Dialer
Google Talk
Maps
Calendar
Alarm Clock
Power Manager ---not oem
Missed Call ---not oem
Messaging
Phone Recorder ---not oem
MyFaves Storage
Voice Dialer
Google Talk
Maps
The list remains the same even after several refreshes..
...oddly only after killing a few tasks this is added?
Gmail
note: at this point in service viewer/tasks, only taskmanager, launcher and service viewer are present..
After killing every process through multiple refreshes messaging (which I assume is a critical app tied to the notification bar) is the only thing that remains until i load something else..
First question..are the apps listed in task manager actual hurting my battery/memory/cpu performance?
Secone question..Is there any way to auto-kill these tasks upon boot, other than by removing them? Or is there some boot.ini type file that could be editted?
sry for the long post, just curious if something can be done...
Yeah id also like to know how to manipulate what starts up on boot.
Any dev should be able to tell us.
Plenty of apps start at boot.
Seriously I would LOVE the answer to these questions. Thanks
Now while this isn't coming from a dev, when I look at the running app list I often see things I haven't touched, but they won't start unless the phone's been idle. I think what happens is it actively fills empty ram with programs so they will start faster, so I think it's just in the nature of Android.
Fushichou said:
Now while this isn't coming from a dev, when I look at the running app list I often see things I haven't touched, but they won't start unless the phone's been idle. I think what happens is it actively fills empty ram with programs so they will start faster, so I think it's just in the nature of Android.
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yes but dont they use up cpu/memory/battery? plus i dont think the programs are so resource heavy that they would need a process running.
An answer from a Dev is what we need
I think what we need is an explaination as HOW a program can autostart on boot. If every program on my phone (stored to sd) started automatically when I turned on my phone I'll be waiting a week for it to start up. There has to be a script that these programs add to or something to run these program automatically. Either that or it's the programs themselves that are set up to start up by themselves. Where if that's the case I think we're screwed.
I'm also VERY interested in this.
Also, how to keep apps from auto-restarting once you kill them. PixelPipe has a background service that, once you start the app after reboot, it won't die. Their app support guy states otherwise tho, heh.
Also, I like how the OS says a program has "died"
I wouldn't really worry about it. For one most of those processes will be sleeping. They use no CPU time when they're in this state. Some processes register an event with the kernel and just sleep forever until that event occurs and the kernel reactivates the process. Some processes sleep for a specific amount of time, wake up and do some task, then go back to sleep. In both cases the number of CPU cycles being used are likely negligible. Most of those start-up programs will fall into one or the other category. The stuff that does take up a fair amount of CPU cycles are things like the multimedia system, the UI system, messenging, etc. In other words, the stuff you want to keep running.
Also, I wouldn't pay too much attention to those memory usage numbers. There's heavy use of shared libraries in the system. Ordinarily processes are only allowed to access memory that is allocated to them. This memory is where the process stores the bits that make up its code (stuff that doesn't change) and where it stores its working data (stuff that does change). Its actually more complicated than that but this will suffice for now. Libraries that are not shared are accessible only to the process that is using it and is stored in the memory allocated to it. Libraries that are shared can be used by multiple processes. These shared libraries are allocated to one place in RAM and when an app needs to use one of them the kernel takes care of mapping the location of the library so the app can access it as if it was in its own memory space.
The memory usage numbers you are seeing do not take into account these shared libraries. An app may be using only 1 or 2 MB of RAM but since it uses a shared library the RAM being used to hold the library is also counted and the size could be shown as 20 or 30 MB higher that what it actually is. You could kill a process and recover some memory but its probably not enough to be worth it since more than likely most of the RAM being used was in shared libraries and they'll still be there after the process is gone.
numerik, thanks for the info. But now I guess my bigger concern would have to do with this part:
Some processes sleep for a specific amount of time, wake up and do some task, then go back to sleep.
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Similar to the problems we run into in windows. Some lame program gets added to msconfig (be it a m$ app or wicked virus), it sits there idle when you fire up your computer uses a minimal amount of cpu amd memory then does who knows what whenever it wants.
I'm no developer, scripter, or any type of person with a thorough understanding of software but I will try to offer a suggestion to those who wish to give me the time of day.
After flashing countless ROMs looking for the fastest and most simple platform to use everyday I have discovered a few things that might help if people agree with me or not. After loading every ROM and first booting... I realize that Advanced Task Manager shows the available system memory at less than half and i haven't even started running apps or installing programs yet. Processes start when the phone boots up that are running in background (asleep but still using system resources) and i believe that a fair percentage of them are not required by the everyday user.
Why is Alarm Clock running in the background when i haven't started it? Why is Email client running and i haven't setup exchange or an email account? Messaging, Maps, Settings, Gallery, these all start up without being physically executed and are using resources. If there is a reason for them to be there like not being able to receive SMS if Messaging is not running, then that is fine and im an idiot... But if there is no need to startup the application from boot then why do it?
My second point is when packages are installed as the ROM is flashed, they cant be uninstalled right? well what if we didnt want tethering apps and facebook apps and proprietary software (Moto apps)? Most of these are available in the market and if not, a 5 min Google search will find an .apk on the net anyway.
So how about a bare bones install with the essentials and nothing else? Youtube, Phone, Messaging, Gmail, Contacts, MT Browser , Maps, Calculator... then anything else can be added at the users will.
If anyone else has something to say... or prove me wrong, then please elaborate.
If you delete the alarm clock task, you're likely to sleep into the morning as the alarm won't go off in the morning. Mail is probably needed for pop3 checks (I rely on my google account).
Anyway, I usualy remove the apps widgets from the ZIP which I don't need prior to flashing, resulting in a liter ROM and less processes which I don't need running in background.
I also used to add the apps I use (ASTRO...) directly into /system/app prior to flashing, putting them to the system partition and ... at this point I am not sure.... this leaves one with more space (internal memory) accessible for apps from market (if you do not use APP2SD). I stopped however doing so, as this makes ROM upgrading painful, as you do have to prepare each .zip before flash.
With regard to operating memory you preferably use either Taskkiller or have your systems autokill file optimized as many ROMS do (CursorSense). Refer to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=622666
I'm not Linux-guy but I know that Android does this to put those programs in memory ASAP because those are usually the first few apps many people use once they boot up their phone -- meaning those apps, when opened, will quickly open and run faster.
Remember, Linux is made to handle all those opened apps and resources; "Unused RAM is useless RAM".
hol17 said:
I'm not Linux-guy but I know that Android does this to put those programs in memory ASAP because those are usually the first few apps many people use once they boot up their phone -- meaning those apps, when opened, will quickly open and run faster.
Remember, Linux is made to handle all those opened apps and resources; "Unused RAM is useless RAM".
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Correct!!
People have to stop comparing Android (linux) with WinMo devices, they handle RAM completely different.
dione1200 said:
Correct!!
People have to stop comparing Android (linux) with WinMo devices, they handle RAM completely different.
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Click to collapse
Yes, true.... and well known. However Linux was developped for servers and not mobile phones.
Launching an application into free RAM is slower than pulling it from a suspended state. So much is true.
But first having to free up up RAM (by killing tasks) before launching the application into the freed up RAM is certainly slower than launching into free RAM. Probably that's why guys are tweaking around, as noted in the link of my post above. Also in my opinion the default settings are not optimal, that's why I use tweaked settings. Probably that depends on how you use your phone.
But I agree. Coming from Windows the whole LINUX concept is a f**** nightmare. There are thousands of different methods (Cache/Compcache/ Ext Cache)...
So it's good to have an expert around. Could you please enlight me, whether the system partition is of fixed size or size is been alocated during flashing. In other words, is the Userdata size fixed or depending on the system size? .... and is there a benefit of putting apps to the /system/app as they will go to system parition and I will have more internal storage available?
Thanks in advance.
feicher said:
So it's good to have an expert around. Could you please enlight me, whether the system partition is of fixed size or size is been alocated during flashing. In other words, is the Userdata size fixed or depending on the system size? .... and is there a benefit of putting apps to the /system/app as they will go to system parition and I will have more internal storage available?
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your Android Device is divided Into partitions -> (Device memory)
1. Hboot (spl)
2. Radio
3. Data (Where u store ur data apps / passwords / other thing)
4. Cache (temp)
5. System (system dump)
6. Boot (to start the device)
so on
Now partition of memory card is important becoz
1. EXT2/3/4 More Amount of Data Section -> if device memory is less
2. Swap -> To fast up the system
*I m Not best Explaination giving person but i think this is understandable language in which i hav written
I think I side with the OP on this one, I would rather have a rom with less in it and then choose to install Amazon MP3 or whatever by myself. Generally speaking you could argue less apps = better performance, as there will be less happening in the background. That said, I have included Facebook in my rom.
However Linux was developped for servers and not mobile phones.
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Click to collapse
Not really true, Linux is just the kernel and can be ported to anything, it's been in embedded small devices for years and not just installed on servers.
ahmgsk said:
Your Android Device is divided Into partitions -> (Device memory)
1. Hboot (spl)
2. Radio
3. Data (Where u store ur data apps / passwords / other thing)
4. Cache (temp)
5. System (system dump)
6. Boot (to start the device)
so on
Now partition of memory card is important becoz
1. EXT2/3/4 More Amount of Data Section -> if device memory is less
2. Swap -> To fast up the system
*I m Not best Explaination giving person but i think this is understandable language in which i hav written
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for the feedback! Most appreciated and helps me to improve my general understanding . I find it really hard to come by information, that is not absolutely basic or high level expert.
Thanks again.
Ive got a clock radio that wakes me up... if i have lagging issues with my phone what i do is use advanced task manager to stop all processes im not using (alarm clock, maps, messaging, email, etc) and everything runs fast again.
No use in reboot cause all the apps start again from boot.
ive tried removing zips from rom before flashing... when i goto upgrade the update stops cause of the missing files > incomplete manifest. is this cause you have to re-zip and sign it?
You can either do that and re-sign the zip file.
OR you could just close this thread and use adb to remove things that you dont want from the ROMs.
PS. root explorer also works wonders.
feicher said:
If you delete the alarm clock task, you're likely to sleep into the morning as the alarm won't go off in the morning. Mail is probably needed for pop3 checks (I rely on my google account).
Anyway, I usualy remove the apps widgets from the ZIP which I don't need prior to flashing, resulting in a liter ROM and less processes which I don't need running in background.
I also used to add the apps I use (ASTRO...) directly into /system/app prior to flashing, putting them to the system partition and ... at this point I am not sure.... this leaves one with more space (internal memory) accessible for apps from market (if you do not use APP2SD). I stopped however doing so, as this makes ROM upgrading painful, as you do have to prepare each .zip before flash.
With regard to operating memory you preferably use either Taskkiller or have your systems autokill file optimized as many ROMS do (CursorSense). Refer to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=622666
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when i try to remove an app from a ZIP it wont let me flash the ROM. even when i replace an app with a newer version renaming it to match the one im replacing, it still doesnt work. what do i have to edit in order to allow the update to go through?
You need to sign the zip file again. Google signing ROMs, its the first thing that pops up.