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Before I get started, please don't scream. I am just *waiting* for the douchebag assault to begin, because after all, this is an internet forum and it'll happen come hell or high water no matter what I say. This post is not for the douchebags, it's for the reasonable people who are willing to discuss, listen and talk in a rational way.
I got my first fuze the day before launch (November 10th), and out of the gate it was problematic. Now, I was and still am enamored by the feature set, and the hardware is amazing when it's working right. My first fuze locked up and crashed programs *constantly*. After a week and a half I exchanged it for another, and this was a better experience, but still flawed.
Fuze #2 never once locked up, but it did crash programs pretty frequently. Not every day and not every program and not even consistently, but it did so with enough frequency to be damn annoying. The AT&T software load, as everyone already knows, is complete ****. It makes a 528Mhz phone with 8 times the RAM of my old Wizard feel slower than the Wizard with a hacked ROM, and that's just sad. I've been using my Wizard (a cingular 8125) since launch, and I can honestly say that unlike most phones the experience only kept getting *better* as the hardware aged, and it was able to do so as a direct result of the fine folks of XDA who have cooked up some really amazing ROM's. The work you guys do is phenomenal and it only gets better as time goes on.
And so I loaded up a custom ROM from here on my Fuze. It was, to say the least, WORLDS better than the AT&T stock ROM. But it still had its annoyances. Some programs would still crash. There was still hesitation here and there when using the Manila 3D UI. Finding and acquiring software to run on it is a pain. Don't get me wrong--Windows Mobile has GOBS of great software available and I've blown hours upon hours finding it, playing with it, enjoying it, over the last 2 and a half years.
Of course, that's part of the problem--to get the really good stuff you have to search endlessly all over the web to find the really great stuff for WinMo. XDA is a terrific place because there is so much stuff discussed and linked to, but even here you have to trudge through miles of posts and it's a pain, plus there's the whole process of downloading, unarchiving, copying to the device, installing to the device--only to do it all over again when the next great ROM comes out. This isn't the fault of anyone here, but it's evidence of a problem that's grown beyond the community's ability to solve--the problem is with Windows Mobile itself and the infrastructure that does--or more accurately does NOT--support it.
Let me 'splain. When I finally had enough of my Fuze, I took it back to AT&T to find something else. I dicked with the Blackberry, I hated it. I've always hated blackberry, both from an infrastructure support side and from an interface side. So that was out. I've never been an Apple guy EVER. In college we had some piece of **** Mac's that were just miserable to use and I learned very well to hate them, so I hadn't even considered an iPhone.
And then I tried it. My first response, as an official Mac hater, was to find its flaws. The camera is mediocre (2mp? LAME!). But then, I have a REAL camera for taking any serious pictures (let's face it, no cell phone camera is going to replace a nice Canon or Nikon any time soon for high end photography). The screen resolution isn't as nice as the Fuze...yet it's still better than the Wizard was, and it's not so low that it ends the world. I hate that there are no hardware buttons except for Home, Power, Mute and the volume toggle, but then, the Fuze wasn't replete with buttons either and I'd already weaned myself off the Wizard's multiple buttons anyway. And it pisses me off that I can't use a friggin' MicroSD card to cheaply expand my storage.
But then I started to see what the device is really all about, and what really blew me away is how easy it is to use and to access a fat library of good apps, both paid and free. I don't even have to leave the device, I can browse it all straight from the phone, install it straight from the phone in a single step, and when I plug it into my PC it's all synced. When the next software update happens I just sync and everything I installed is put right back where I wanted it to be.
In short, I finally see why people are tripping over the iPhone. It's not the hardware, because let's face it the iPhone is outclassed in hardware by plenty of phones, including the Fuze. It's the interface, it's the software, it's the ease of use. And for me, at this point in my life where I'm trying to do more with my time than ever before, that makes it a great device choice for me. The iPhone, simply enough, will save me time and effort, and it enables me to do things I just can't do with Windows Mobile.
Now, my sincere hope is that WinMo 7 fixes these many issues. I hope it comes with an easy and fast UI. I hope the devices have multitouch screens. I hope there is finally an integrated backend infrastructure and an app store that nets easy access to both developers and consumers of applications and games. I hope it standardizes on a required minimum of built in storage but outdoes Apple by allowing you to expand it further with MicroSD (or whatever the hell comes next, but man do I hope NanoSD isn't next or I'll never be able to find my goddamn cards). And for goodness sakes, STOP vendors from loading the damn phones with all this bloat!
Compared to what Apple's done with the iPhone OS it feels like Windows Mobile is standing still, like Microsoft has dropped the ball and just stood there slack jawed as it rolled away. Maybe it's because they're so focused on kicking Sony in the nuts in the console wars, I dunno. All I can tell you is that what iPhone's software is today, WinMo's should have been a long time ago. The only reason it's survived this long is because guys like the geniuses on this forum have made it do things it was clearly never built to do in the first place.
With any luck I'll be trading in my iPhone for a WinMo 7 device, but I guess that remains to be seen. To everyone who's done anything for this community, I want to say thanks, because you made my enjoyment of my Wizard a true joy for almost 3 years.
Thanks,
Jason
I have mostly always used WM devices but in the mix of my many phones I have used both iPhones and I too agree that the interface is much simpler, easier to use, and direct, I also agree that certain apps specifically the games on the iPhone are uncomparable to the WM devices. Lastly, also think that the ease of app searching in the iPhone is the best, just browsing through the many apps is a joy.
With that said, using the iPhone is (to me) frustrating because most if not all apps crash, the web surfing is a pain because I remeber surfing and safari would constantly close. I traded my iPhone for the fuze and updates have done little to improve these problems, my wife still has the iphone 3g and I always have the same problems on her phone. In addition, I exchange my iphones multiple times because of these problem and they kept on happening. The only truly thing I miss from the iphone are the games and sometimes the appstore. The lack of multitasking is also horrible even by using the background tasking app when jailbreaking doesn't solve this dilema.
It really depends on what you need.
I honestly couldn't care less about the whole openness debate.
At least personally, I can jailbreak and get whatever (ok, maybe not) I want on an iphone.
The ui is much more responsive, and the screen is much larger.
BUT! I need physical keys, and that pretty much was the sole reason to not consider anything else.
Yesterday, while on the train, I was reading some stuff on Opera, while listening to music on Kimona, and typing away on Word, while swtiching between apps using Task Facade. Can I do this on the iPhone? Not as far as I know.
And about the larger screen, if I need to be typing frequently, the larger screen really doesn't benefit me since half of it will be filled with a virtual keyboard; what matters is a high res display. After comparing the two side by side, my choice was pretty clear.
Then there's another thing about the whole "responsiveness" debate. Honestly, at least with custom ROM's (which is really a bad excuse, since no one should have to do this to get past the minimum responsiveness), and running one app at a time, it's very snappy.
My point is, I find it inaccurate to state that the Fuze is a gateway to an iPhone without considering the target group and general purpose of winmo devices. Granted, more winmo phones want to hit the mainstream market, but let's face it, Fuze isn't targeted to hit any of the consumers out there. At&t did absolutely nothing to market it, and that really should be enough to invalidate the statement you provided. After all this is a forum where more technically inclined people hang around.
Wow, that's a lot of words. I'm surprised my ADD didn't kick in while reading it.
If you think that the iPhone will free you from crashes, think again. Yes, the interface is slick, but it is not the flawless stable system you see on the TV adds. I had the IPhone for a month before and returned it for the Fuze mainly because I got tired of Safari as well as any other memory intensive app constantly crashing.
The phone just doesn't have enough memory to be as good as it can be. My wife still has her iPhone which I recently upgraded to firmware version 2.2. This weekend, out of the blue, I asked her how it was performing. She replied "I just has to reboot the phone a minute ago."
I figure, if I have to deal with software lagginess and crashes, I might as well have a system that is accessible and customizable instead of one that is locked down. Oh, and the few extra buttons on the Fuze certainly do make a difference. But really, I find the Fuze with a new ROM MUCH MUCH more stable than the iPhone ever was.
Nice post, well thought out and honest. I, too, have a Fuze and am considering an Iphone. The bigger screen is a major factor; the Fuze screen is just so .. small! high-res is great, but pointless when you need to zoom in so close on things to read them that you might as well be running QVGA.
It seems I have a love/hate relationship with the Fuze, as many do here. One day, it drives me nuts -- Opera freezes up, scrolls and zooms in and out and behaves weird, the phone acts slow, bad GPS fix, and so on. I get frustrated and seriously consider returning it. Then, the next day it works like a dream! Quick GPS fix, opera works perfect, I discover something I did not know about before (i.e., circling your finger on a portion of a photo to zoom in right there -- cool!) and I would be sad to see it go.
I guess all we can do is be patient. As you said, other phones got better with age; I think it stands to reason that the same thing will happen with the Fuze. As better optimized web browsers get released (i.e., Fennec) and (hopefully) video drivers get updated, the whole experience should get better. If by some miracle we get WM7, who knows what that might bring. yeah, the hardware is frustrating -- small screen, weird buttons, no headphone jack -- but I think it is enough to deal with for now if we can get the software and drivers all optimized.
Thanks for all the great replies, guys. So far I have had the iPhone for just a shade over 48 hours, and I've updated to 2.2. I've experience no crashes yet, but I did need to reboot once after installing an app last night (weird, yet no biggie to me because I'm used to it in the Windows world).
I have to agree--I HATE that I can't run more than one app at a time on the iPhone. I don't know why they do that, but I can only presume that it's done that way in order to force memory to stay free so the OS remains quick and responsive. It's kind of a ****ty tradeoff IMHO, but at the same time...I'm liking the responsiveness and I *usually* don't do more than one thing at a time anyway. It's nice to have the option though.
By all means, I don't think Fuze is a waste at all (except in AT&T's horrible software load. What the hell are they thinking? Honestly they need to fire whoever builds their ROM's and hire somebody who does this as a hobby on XDA), and I think that when it matures it'll be damn difficult to beat. I fully expect WinMo7 to eventually arrive on it (barring some bizarre hardware requirements, but who knows?), but even if it doesn't I think the ROM devs around here will eventually harness this thing into a terrific device. Unfortunately I just don't feel like waiting around, because for my almost $400 out the door I feel I should have walked out of the AT&T store with a phone that blew the doors off most others without any need for a hack.
On the bright side, by the time the ROM's are really mature and crazy fast/stable, the Fuze will probably have dropped in price substantially
For those developing ROM's, some of my thoughts on UI are:
1. Larger buttons! Especially for closing apps and using drop downs, those tiny little default X's are miserable for finger access. Finger friendly is the way of the future.
2. Customize Touchflo. I've seen some slick youtube videos with guys doing very iPhone/Coverflowish stuff and it appears buttery smooth. Of course, I could never find where to get the software to try it out, but if it's doable, heck...do it
3. I dunno if this is possible, but how about setting up some sort of repository for free apps and building a thin client that could run in touchflo, connect to the server, and snag a list of apps available and maybe even install those directly to the phone. I don't see any reason not to steal the App Store's idea, it works well and it's a joy to use. Microsoft should have done this already
Just some thoughts!
I can relate to OP. I'm upgrading form a Wizard as well (T-Mo US MDA). While new ROM's certainly made my Wizard better, I can say that custom ROM's on it were not an absolute requirement. While I continued to be more amazed by my Wizard, I just continue to be a little less pissed off at my Fuse.
XDA is the ONLY reason I have not returned my Fuze. I'm finally back to a totally stripped ROM, with no fancy I wish I bought an IPhone TouchFlo Horse ****, and no AT&T application Douchebaggery.
OP, I feel you on the lack of buttons. I miss playing pocket Nester / GB on my Wizard. I think it says alot when it is totally outclassed and still sticks around as my "GameBoy".
I definitely have mixed feelings about the Fuze. I waited to buy this over the Tilt for the camera, and I have been somewhat impressed by it. I miss the Wizard's Keyboard layout and overall style, with the buttons NOT touching each other.
@Fatheadpi,
I can't agree more (though I am rather enamored with the iPhone's UI. It's not the animation and all that crap though, it's the sheer *speed* of it and ease of getting to anything I want to get to).
Fuze is an impressive piece of hardware, yet at the same time there are issues with it--primarily software--that are really hard to overlook on such an expensive device.
The iPhone has been around for quiet a while now, and has had 2 revisions. The Fuze is fresh out of the box, so making a comparison so early in it's release is a little judgemental. it is possible that alot of out problems can be solved by a nice ROM update (like video drivers). Or just out right fixed by custom ROMs here. if you think that apple listens to what the people want, just take a look at the cut/paste, or Video recording issues.
One of the "great" things about the iPhone is one of it's biggest weakness too. The app store, while its a one stop shopping for apps, is also controled by apple, and they are the final say on what kind of programs you are allowed to run on your device. You also can write new ones (think Schaps Advance config) you have to take what they want you to have and like it. If you try to break their rules, then you might find yourself owning a brick when you sync it.
I think you need to look at this in a little bit of a different light here.
Apple has for the most part stated that they are a software company; almost all of their efforts these days are portals to Itunes where Apple makes money hence the reason for lacking hardware but great UIs and access to Itunes. They make loads more money on Itunes than on hardware.
Looking at this from AT&T's viewpoint they make money on data plans, minutes, texting, basically anything crossing their network so these types of things work great on the phone.
A third party to all of this is HTC which has to make something attractive but gets no additional money at all after you buy the hardware.
So looking at it this way, it makes perfect sense why a pleasurable experience on a Winmo device is driven by the end user, in essence no one else is interested in your problem because they don't make money off of you.
So maybe some entrepreneur out there should figure out a nifty UI like iTunes but for Winmo where a user can buy a new ROM, or try out/buy some cool apps and so forth, figuring out a cool way to upgrade the device.
The real truth here is that Apple owns everything about the iPhone, there is no one entity that owns Winmo devices so individuals end up taking over and this creates multiple and sometimes confusing paths to good stuff.
-Tim
jasongw said:
(except in AT&T's horrible software load. What the hell are they thinking? Honestly they need to fire whoever builds their ROM's and hire somebody who does this as a hobby on XDA)
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If they don't do that, we may have to pay more for the device. So I really don't mind all the bloatware (you get what you pay for )
3. I dunno if this is possible, but how about setting up some sort of repository for free apps and building a thin client that could run in touchflo, connect to the server, and snag a list of apps available and maybe even install those directly to the phone. I don't see any reason not to steal the App Store's idea, it works well and it's a joy to use. Microsoft should have done this already
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http://getgecko.org/
I think these guys are trying to do just that. The problem is, ironically, but obviously, the openness.
Then there's this. It's from handango. Never tried it, probably not even close to what apple has. It's not the lack of it, but the way it's presented, which is precisely why--and you nailed this point--iphones sell. Of course, as I mentioned previously, most winmo users are at least prosumers, so they know what to do without all the oversimplifications.
Jblakk--
I get what you're saying about comparing the two, but I have to disagree. The Fuze is brand new, but essentially Fuze is to, say, an HTC Wizard as iPhone 3G is to iPhone. That's to say, it's not new, it's merely a refinement of what's come before.
And Fuze gets a lot right, I know, just as iPhone gets a lot wrong. Yes, it's judgmental to point out the strengths and weaknesses of the fuze, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Judging is a natural and appropriate action for humans, and I'd argue we should judge more, not less (but in a rational way, not an emotional "I'll kill you for disagreeing" way). That's philosophy though, and I'm just talking phone/PDA's
I realize that Apple has final say on the app store, but from what I can see it appears that they aren't being too tyrannical about the content. There are literally thousands of apps available, and so far I've filled up 5 screens worth of apps I wanted to try out. It was easy to find them, easy to install them, and for the ones I didn't quite like, it was easy to kick them to the curb.
I have to say you're dead on about cut/paste and video recording. I can't even imagine how they left those out, especially cut and paste. I mean does it get any more basic than cut and paste? . Hopefully that will be resolved soon, I can't imagine it's all that complicated.
My point here has never been to say that the Fuze is super terrible and iPhone is the uber shizz; clearly both phones have their strengths, and both have their weaknesses. Right now, based on my experience with both and coming off the still-my-overall-favorite-phone-to-date the HTC Wizard, I feel that where the iPhone leads is entirely in the execution of the software. Windows Mobile 6 is barely a step above 5 (in fact, it IS 5 if you get right to it, 5.2.xxxx) and it's really showing its age.
I think a reasonable argument could be made that the Fuze hardware deserves better than what Windows Mobile's current incarnations have to offer. However, as I mentioned, I do think the miracle workers at XDA will pull some sweet tricks out of their hats eventually and make the fuze pretty damn sweet. And if Microsoft follows its usual pattern, WM7 will finally catch up to iPhone's OS and probably refine and improve on it in various ways. It'll be exciting to see what happens on that front
@g2tl-- Gecko seems like a great idea, I really hope they make some good progress. I hadn't heard of that before, but I'll definitely be following their progress from here on out! Thanks for the heads up!
As for getting what you pay for, that's almost always true but I think there's an exception here. On the fuze you're getting more impressive hardware, but you're getting a much less polished piece of software that's quite outdated and difficult to manage by modern standards. Now, I'm a 13 year IT geek (good lord, did I just admit that?) so I've never been afraid of getting my hands dirty, and goodness knows it's a miracle my old 8125 survived all the flashing I did to it, but at a certain point it's nice for a device to just *work* without a lot of dicking around with it.
I am sure WinMo will eventually be that software, probably with WinMo7. It's just not there yet, and I think the real shame of that is that an awesome device like the Fuze (or any flavor of the touch pro for that matter) won't really be used to its full potential because the software is lagging so far behind the device itself.
Tim, I do get all that, and you're exactly right. I also think that's where a great many of the problems with WinMo come from, the fact that carriers can just shovel piles and piles of junk onto these phones just drags down the user experience.
I'd say maybe Microsoft needs to put out their own phone where they can present a coherent experience (their new Xbox Live interface is friggin' awesome), but then I'm sure we'd have a lot of crying foul from assorted carriers and competitors who cry monopoly. There's probably no easy solution from a development and implementation standpoint, but from a consumer standpoint it's actually fairly easy: go buy the device that offers what you need.
Right now for me--and surprisingly so because I never imagined buying one of these until 2 days ago--that device appears to be iPhone. I truly do hope for a WinMo7 device or even a Fuze WinMo7 hack that'll win me back eventually. I still love the dark side
jason - Suggestion for you, as this is finally what has made me very happy with my Fuse. Probably a little too late as you're running an I-Phone.
Think about this: You were a Wizard user. When you upgraded, you probably wanted a better camera, more power, and 16 gig storage options. You were probably running an OC'd cooked rom WITHOUT TouchFlo.
Here's my suggestion.
Starting from scratch, I have the phone I wanted after about an hour's work. TouchFlo 3D just continues to piss me off. The only nice things about it were the picture viewer, weather, and the music setup. However, I have music controls on my BT Headset, and I'll probably go find the HTC Music player / plugin tonite. I have HTC picture viewer installed in an out of the way place for the rare times I look at my pics. I'll figure something out for the weather option, tho I've lived without it for a number of years.
Thinking about it, it all kinda makes sense. PC users build PC's and use Windows because we know exactly what we want and how we want it. We don't put flashy, pointless bull**** interfaces up front to slow things down. (at least pre-Vista, anyways.)
Still tho, the Raphael and Diamond needed a different control pad and button set. Macs were built around the idea that an average idiot (no offense to MacFags) could just use something. PC's are designed with a bunch of buttons because PCFags will customize that to do awesome stuff.
jasongw said:
Jblakk--
I get what you're saying about comparing the two, but I have to disagree. The Fuze is brand new, but essentially Fuze is to, say, an HTC Wizard as iPhone 3G is to iPhone. That's to say, it's not new, it's merely a refinement of what's come before.
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I'll have to dissagree with you there, as the hardware is so different, it's a copletely different device. I came from the Hermes(8525) and it's not even close to the same(and I did love my heremes)
And Fuze gets a lot right, I know, just as iPhone gets a lot wrong. Yes, it's judgmental to point out the strengths and weaknesses of the fuze, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Judging is a natural and appropriate action for humans, and I'd argue we should judge more, not less (but in a rational way, not an emotional "I'll kill you for disagreeing" way). That's philosophy though, and I'm just talking phone/PDA's
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I think what I said just came out wrong. I think over-critical would have been more accurate. I think that we look at things in perspective, and make decisions based on our needs. While I know that neither device is perfect(what one is?) we just need for figure out what job does the job best for us, and makes us happy.
I realize that Apple has final say on the app store, but from what I can see it appears that they aren't being too tyrannical about the content. There are literally thousands of apps available, and so far I've filled up 5 screens worth of apps I wanted to try out. It was easy to find them, easy to install them, and for the ones I didn't quite like, it was easy to kick them to the curb.
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Don't forget that not all of thoes apps are free, and you don't get demos of stuff try make sure they work as advertised. I have friends that nickle and dime themselves too death due to the app store. I don't think the idea is bad idea by any means though.
I have to say you're dead on about cut/paste and video recording. I can't even imagine how they left those out, especially cut and paste. I mean does it get any more basic than cut and paste? . Hopefully that will be resolved soon, I can't imagine it's all that complicated.
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iPhone users have been asking for thoes 2 functions for well over a year, and they all say...Its comming soon...for a year now. I'm guessing that Mr. Jobs doesnt want you to have it for some reason.
My point here has never been to say that the Fuze is super terrible and iPhone is the uber shizz; clearly both phones have their strengths, and both have their weaknesses. Right now, based on my experience with both and coming off the still-my-overall-favorite-phone-to-date the HTC Wizard, I feel that where the iPhone leads is entirely in the execution of the software. Windows Mobile 6 is barely a step above 5 (in fact, it IS 5 if you get right to it, 5.2.xxxx) and it's really showing its age.
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I won't dissagree with you on that. 6.1 was a bigger improvement that 5 to 6 was. Hopping that 6.5 will get the boost it very much needs. And don't ever forget that Touchflo 3D was HTCs way of hiding the windows interface, due to its seriously unfrendlyness. But also remember that iPhone was geared towards the casual Multi-media use, and the Fuze is aimed towards the average power user.
I think a reasonable argument could be made that the Fuze hardware deserves better than what Windows Mobile's current incarnations have to offer. However, as I mentioned, I do think the miracle workers at XDA will pull some sweet tricks out of their hats eventually and make the fuze pretty damn sweet. And if Microsoft follows its usual pattern, WM7 will finally catch up to iPhone's OS and probably refine and improve on it in various ways. It'll be exciting to see what happens on that front
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I will agree with that. But just like the arguement over PC vs mac, it's not a fair comparison. It needs to be Dell XPS vs Mac, or Toshiba Satalite vs Mac. There is no such thing as a PC (technicaly a Mac is a PC too...Personal Computer). And Apple has the unfair advantage of only writing software for papriatary hardware, where Microsoft has to write software for millions of combinations of hardware, and in the end it's all about drivers.
In the end, see what serves your needs best, but I do not think that the Fuze will drive anyone to be iPhone users. With the Fuzes lack of advertising, and the Apple's Mind numbing advetising, I think that people that look at the fuze as an option already have the mindset that the iPhone just will not do what they need.
In advance let me say thanks to everyone for having such a civil discussion. I am thoroughly impressed and appreciative. I was *sure* somebody would have come in with the raving and yelling attitude by now and I've happily been proven wrong. I REALLY appreciate that; flame wars got old and boring a loooong time ago IMHO
@Fatheadpi,
Thank you for the suggestion. At some point in the future I hope to get another fuze or perhaps its successor. Of course, by then I hope for WM7 and an actual answer to the ease of use features in iPhone (I'm still a PC guy at heart, I'd love to see Apple get ***** slapped at their own game). Suffice to say, unless AT&T cleans up its act (which I doubt, they never did do right by Wizard users and it was only XDA cookers who made that device be all that it could be) I am sure that the Fuze will continue to be a "Cooked ROMs only" device.
@JBlakk,
Wow, what a nice response . I won't go point by point, but I think you've made a lot of good points, and I agree with many. Hell, I still build my own PC's (I've only recently started using Vista though, and I mostly hate it so I turn off almost all the fancy crap).
Also I think you definitely have a point about the marketing aspect and who the fuze is (or at least ought to be) targeted toward. I'd make the argument though that if AT&T is targeting the "power user" they still missed the mark with the software by loading it will all that ridiculous bloat.
I like the appearance of TouchFlo3D, but man the performance is just sad, especially on such a high end piece of phone hardware. My biggest gripe is absolutely in the software execution, but I am, to reiterate again, quite confident that as the ROM's mature and the cookers get their heads around the nuances of the phone itself, we'll see some amazing performance from Fuze.
Thanks again guys! It's been loads of fun
Jason
I'll be civil...
I understand what you are saying, if you just want something that works 99.9% of the time the iPhone is the perfect phone for you. I however like to play with things and no how much I deny it I like finding problems and fixing them, and Microsoft's products are perfect for that. Also the open source-ness of M$ is another thing that draws me to their products.
I was worried, being an open Apple hater(I have nightmares about getting iPhones for Christmas...), that AT&T would not carry another phone with a touch screen after they signed the deal with Apple. The Touch Pro is/will be perfect for me in that sense. Apple is flashy and pretty, but extremely constrained in the sense that Apple likes to keep it's followers in a choke hold, but that's my opinion too.
I also like the keyboard of the Fuze/Touch Pro/Raphael(Why do they need so many names for the same device?!)
So in short I'm not going to flame you because you chose an Apple product over a M$ one, I honestly don't care as it's your money and your decision. I think the latest Touch Pro's are better than the first release models though...but that could be just speculation.
((Also the lack of cut/copy/paste is an EXTREME drawback for me))
I also went to the darkside (iPhone) after returning my fuze. I have said it in previous posts and to my co-workers that have both iPhones and WinMo devices - it. just. works.
Being an engineer/sys admin by trade I love to tinker and tweak and rip apart and put back together stuff, but in this case the effort it took to get the Fuze/TP to a usable state [for me] wasn't worth it. I am at the stage of my life where I don't have the time to play (7 mo. old will do that to ya).
I wouldn't kick a free or deeply discounted Fuze/TP out of bed, lol, but as many have said, it's what you want out of a device and I needed my device to work out of the box.
That said, so far so good. About 2 trouble-free weeks with the iP3G.
I still come here daily to keep up on the HTC WinMo happenings to satiate my tinker desire. But the iPhone is here to stay - or until WinMo 7 drops at least.
I just spent the past two days at CES and in fact spent time in the Viewsonic booth.
There are so many tablets on display that one person in my party suggested that if you threw a Coke can 100 feet in any direction you would hit a tablet...
Overall in my opinion on a relative scale the Viewsonic G-tablet is not that bad given everything I have played with. Some other tablets might be a little leaner, maybe a little tighter build quality, but the main difference I see is the display in the Viewsonic.
And yes I did play with the Motorola tablet. While it is leaner and a better built I was shocked on how hot the tablet was when the Motorola person handed it over for me to play with. The G-tablet no matter what I have asked it to do, never gets "hot".
With respect to the Viewsonic tablets introduced at CES, their smaller tablet seems cheep in its constructions. Perhaps that is due to the use of silver colored plastic. And their dual-boot tablet... It was shown running Android 1.6. We asked Viewsonic and were told reboot it to get into Windows. After a power off and power on, I was presented with a boot manager window with Android and Windows as options. But it appeared to be looking for an arrow key press to move the selection bar. Basically I don't think Windows really is useful on the tablet without a keyboard. Perhaps this is why they were showing the tablet with Android. Thus I was never able to get into Windows and try that out.
The RIM tablet is very well built but running QNX. QNX is a realtime operating system and they were in the booth with RIM. QNT is something that is embedded in a product and normally never sees the light of day with respect to the end user. To be honest I worry about the ultimate availability of applications as QNX has nothing to do with Linux, Android, Windows anything, etc. Basically RIM is starting out from scratch. Their user interface is different. Not bad, just different. My opinion, shared with others that I talked with, is that this tablet will appeal to corporations who already have a RIM infrastructure in place and have users complaining they need a tablet. Note that the device on display was WiFi only, where RIM claimed that a unnamed carrier 4G device is near release.
Did you by chance check out the Notion Ink Adam tablet?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
vsc said:
Note that the device on display was WiFi only, where RIM claimed that a unnamed carrier 4G device is near release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would probably be Sprint, who is already advertising the Playbook's imminent release...
Wow! You found better build quality that the gTab? Even my Nook Color seems to have poorer QA as far as actual build goes, and I TRULU expected MUCH better of B&N... defective USB port on my first one OOB, and the casing feels "loose" on returned & exchanged units... however both are better than the Pandigital Novel(white v1) or Augen Gentouch78... although neither of these had defective ports, etc. OOB...
VPAD 10(dual boot one, I presume): Only runs Android 1.6 as it's the latest version that "officially"(?) supports Android for the x86 arch...
To be honest I could find a booth for them and they clearly are not in the show directory. The bloggers are finding them but they have armies of people all over the show floor.
cadillax02 said:
Did you by chance check out the Notion Ink Adam tablet?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall there is a lot of junk Android tablets at the show.
It is notable that when the basic software is the same you have two ways to differentiate product. Industrial design, build quality, etc or a software framework such as TnT. Many products simply do neither.
Another notable fact is most tablets are running v2.2 of Android, even when their writeups for their product cite Android 3.0. I was put off by this.
I returned a NookColor because it developed 16+ hot pixels in the middle of the display. At night on a plane ride they just lit up to the point I decided this is too much it goes back. B&N gave me a lot of trouble returning the device, but after three hours of standing my ground they accepted the return. I decided to take a pass on the NookColor for now. And I agree the USB connector choice could have been much better. Also why go with a unique connector in the first place?
I want to say the coolest phone at the show is the LG Optimus 2X. I want one. NOW. We couldn't get it to lag, even when doing our best to crush it. The display quality is also very good. LG won a best of show award for a display and I think it is the same one used in the 2X.
cutterjohn said:
Wow! You found better build quality that the gTab? Even my Nook Color seems to have poorer QA as far as actual build goes, and I TRULU expected MUCH better of B&N... defective USB port on my first one OOB, and the casing feels "loose" on returned & exchanged units... however both are better than the Pandigital Novel(white v1) or Augen Gentouch78... although neither of these had defective ports, etc. OOB...
VPAD 10(dual boot one, I presume): Only runs Android 1.6 as it's the latest version that "officially"(?) supports Android for the x86 arch...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How was the Viewpad 10s? Better screen?
Nope
japhule said:
How was the Viewpad 10s? Better screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my GTablet-TnT-Lite using Tapatalk
One of my co-workers bought back some info after the CES about the MOTO XOOM, he said that the software was very unstable and lot of FCs. He said that most hardware were ready and just google holding them up..
VSC: did you get your hands on the XOOM, was it unstable? We may need to wait for a few more months then...
tyy10002 said:
One of my co-workers bought back some info after the CES about the MOTO XOOM, he said that the software was very unstable and lot of FCs. He said that most hardware were ready and just google holding them up..
VSC: did you get your hands on the XOOM, was it unstable? We may need to wait for a few more months then...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may be mis-reading this article:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/09/motorola-xoom-pretend-ui-hands-on-walkthrough-video/
but it sounds like they (MOTO) were showing a "fake" Honeycomb UI on the Xoom? Maybe that's why it was "unstable" ??
Jim
jimcpl said:
I may be mis-reading this article:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/09/motorola-xoom-pretend-ui-hands-on-walkthrough-video/
but it sounds like they (MOTO) were showing a "fake" Honeycomb UI on the Xoom? Maybe that's why it was "unstable" ??
Jim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That article was kind of confusing.. Said they were running a fake UI on top of the REAL Honeycomb? How is that any different from running say, Launcherpro on top of Froyo? So we aren't running Froyo if we use a different launcher? Maybe they mean the Motorola specific launcher is unstable, I don't know..
At least they haven't put it up for sale as a totally unstable device like Viewsonic did, yet...
I imagine that by the time people can buy one of those surely overpriced, probably locked down tablets they will have all the kinks worked out. Just seeing the Verizon name makes me not want one.
So would you say the viewing angles of all these new tablets are light years ahead of the Viewsonic, tad better or the same?
Reason why I am asking... Should I wait or not on a G-Tablet with the expectation of upgrading in about 9 - 12 months.
vsc said:
I just spent the past two days at CES and in fact spent time in the Viewsonic booth.
There are so many tablets on display that one person in my party suggested that if you threw a Coke can 100 feet in any direction you would hit a tablet...
Overall in my opinion on a relative scale the Viewsonic G-tablet is not that bad given everything I have played with. Some other tablets might be a little leaner, maybe a little tighter build quality, but the main difference I see is the display in the Viewsonic.
And yes I did play with the Motorola tablet. While it is leaner and a better built I was shocked on how hot the tablet was when the Motorola person handed it over for me to play with. The G-tablet no matter what I have asked it to do, never gets "hot".
With respect to the Viewsonic tablets introduced at CES, their smaller tablet seems cheep in its constructions. Perhaps that is due to the use of silver colored plastic. And their dual-boot tablet... It was shown running Android 1.6. We asked Viewsonic and were told reboot it to get into Windows. After a power off and power on, I was presented with a boot manager window with Android and Windows as options. But it appeared to be looking for an arrow key press to move the selection bar. Basically I don't think Windows really is useful on the tablet without a keyboard. Perhaps this is why they were showing the tablet with Android. Thus I was never able to get into Windows and try that out.
The RIM tablet is very well built but running QNX. QNX is a realtime operating system and they were in the booth with RIM. QNT is something that is embedded in a product and normally never sees the light of day with respect to the end user. To be honest I worry about the ultimate availability of applications as QNX has nothing to do with Linux, Android, Windows anything, etc. Basically RIM is starting out from scratch. Their user interface is different. Not bad, just different. My opinion, shared with others that I talked with, is that this tablet will appeal to corporations who already have a RIM infrastructure in place and have users complaining they need a tablet. Note that the device on display was WiFi only, where RIM claimed that a unnamed carrier 4G device is near release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sprdtyf350 said:
That article was kind of confusing.. Said they were running a fake UI on top of the REAL Honeycomb? How is that any different from running say, Launcherpro on top of Froyo? So we aren't running Froyo if we use a different launcher? Maybe they mean the Motorola specific launcher is unstable, I don't know..
At least they haven't put it up for sale as a totally unstable device like Viewsonic did, yet...
I imagine that by the time people can buy one of those surely overpriced, probably locked down tablets they will have all the kinks worked out. Just seeing the Verizon name makes me not want one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was a little confused by the article too, which is what I started with "I may be mis-reading...".
Jim
jimcpl said:
I was a little confused by the article too, which is what I started with "I may be mis-reading...".
Jim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I saw that Just a general observation... Guess if it doesn't make sense it must be right! Right?
Well I was at CES also and the only thing I saw for Viewsonic was a little office and I was everywhere. Do you remember where they were? I played with the rim playbook for a bit the interface was nice then I watched for 20 minutes and I didn't see a single crash but I like that when you open different tabs in browser or media you could see all the pages that are open in small windows similar to when you have multiple pages open in Firefox on windows 7 rim playbook is a small platform.
Sprdtyf350 said:
That article was kind of confusing.. Said they were running a fake UI on top of the REAL Honeycomb? How is that any different from running say, Launcherpro on top of Froyo? So we aren't running Froyo if we use a different launcher? Maybe they mean the Motorola specific launcher is unstable, I don't know..
At least they haven't put it up for sale as a totally unstable device like Viewsonic did, yet...
I imagine that by the time people can buy one of those surely overpriced, probably locked down tablets they will have all the kinks worked out. Just seeing the Verizon name makes me not want one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was basically a demo video of Honeycomb playing in the Android video player in Honeycomb. The actual 3.0 on the Xoom was pretty much unpopulated. Empty screens and almost no apps. The only way to experience it was through the video.
All is very strong. Most of the tablets at the show have a similar display and are no better with respect to the viewing angles.
After talking to the display suppliers it would appear that in general the 10" displays have limited viewing angles (e.g. 90/50 degrees). Smaller panels (e.g. 5" and 7") have much better viewing angles (e.g. 160/140 degrees).
stanglx said:
So would you say the viewing angles of all these new tablets are light years ahead of the Viewsonic, tad better or the same?
Reason why I am asking... Should I wait or not on a G-Tablet with the expectation of upgrading in about 9 - 12 months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got my hands on a verizon 32 gig blue SGSIII. Just got it activated, had to have one shipped in since it wasn't in stock.
Goodness, it's light. I've already forgotten it was in my hands a few times.
I do miss my physical keyboard - a lot. I won't ever get over this, but in the short time I've had it that's all I don't like...and knew that going in.
It'll take me a while to get situated and oriented, and a few days to clear out my 64 sdcard for it.
Can't wait to get to a hotel tomorrow so I can get some power for my laptop and back the device up and start exploring it.
Tempting as it is to install apps (can't wait to re-play my games on this lovely and large display) I can wait until I can pull the device structure onto my computer.
Just wanted to give a shout out and say hi, looking forward to fun stuff with you all in the future!
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
Got my hands on a verizon 32 gig blue SGSIII. Just got it activated, had to have one shipped in since it wasn't in stock.
Goodness, it's light. I've already forgotten it was in my hands a few times.
I do miss my physical keyboard - a lot. I won't ever get over this, but in the short time I've had it that's all I don't like...and knew that going in.
It'll take me a while to get situated and oriented, and a few days to clear out my 64 sdcard for it.
Can't wait to get to a hotel tomorrow so I can get some power for my laptop and back the device up and start exploring it.
Tempting as it is to install apps (can't wait to re-play my games on this lovely and large display) I can wait until I can pull the device structure onto my computer.
Just wanted to give a shout out and say hi, looking forward to fun stuff with you all in the future!
Sent from a digital distance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congrats! You may have missed the bootloader drama but you are just in time for the good stuff. Enjoy.
Thanks!
I was gonna try to play with it unrooted stock for a while, but found something that's a dealbreaker.
Can't turn off "presidential alerts" under emergency alerts. So, looks like i'll have to make time to go through the process now.
Any spyware I should axe while i'm at it? New to both verizon and samsung, but not to bending Android to my will. If anyone feels like posting here obnoxious intrusive crap to remove, i'm open to suggestions fom those more familiar with my new purchase then I am yet.
Thanks!
Blue6IX said:
I was gonna try to play with it unrooted stock for a while, but found something that's a dealbreaker.
Can't turn off "presidential alerts" under emergency alerts. So, looks like i'll have to make time to go through the process now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"dealbreaker"? Gosh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Alert_System#What_the_national_level_EAS_would_not_do
In a The New York Times article (correction printed January 3, 2002)[1] "No president has ever used the current [EAS] system or its technical predecessors in the last 50 years, despite the Soviet missile crisis, a presidential assassination, the Oklahoma City bombing, major earthquakes and three recent high-alert terrorist warnings... Michael K. Powell, the then chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, which oversees the Emergency Alert System, pointed to 'the ubiquitous media environment,' arguing that the system was, in effect, scooped by CNN, MSNBC, Fox News Channel and other channels... [FEMA] activates the alert system nationally at the behest of the White House on 34 50,000-watt stations that reach 98 percent of Americans... Beyond that, the current EAS signal is an audio message only—which pre-empts all programming—so that viewers who were watching color images of the trade center on Sept. 11 would have been able to see only a screen with a generic text message along with a presidential voice-over, if an emergency message had been activated."[1]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There has only been a test in 2011 of the system, with mixed results. The likelihood of such a notification in the future is incredibly low, but it's only for major emergencies of national implication.
Still, if you really, really need to uncheck that box . . .
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1829681
Blue6IX said:
Thanks!
I was gonna try to play with it unrooted stock for a while, but found something that's a dealbreaker.
Can't turn off "presidential alerts" under emergency alerts. So, looks like i'll have to make time to go through the process now.
Any spyware I should axe while i'm at it? New to both verizon and samsung, but not to bending Android to my will. If anyone feels like posting here obnoxious intrusive crap to remove, i'm open to suggestions fom those more familiar with my new purchase then I am yet.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like the post above says thats kind of a stupid dealbreaker. Its not like youre going to get text messages like its the presidents twitter page. If you are that paranoid about it turn the phone back in because 'they' might be tracking you with it.
Sccrluk9 said:
Like the post above says thats kind of a stupid dealbreaker. Its not like youre going to get text messages like its the presidents twitter page. If you are that paranoid about it turn the phone back in because 'they' might be tracking you with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Appreciate if you'd take your hate and assumptions elsewhere, it is counter to the culture of XDA.
My issue is I hit a box I can't uncheck, an option that isn't optional. What it is, is irrelevant to the fact that it's something I couldn't change.
The dealbreaker reference is towards keeping the device unrooted stock.
Sent from a digital distance.
No hate, just assumptions which is my bad. Didn't mean to come off like that and for that I'm sorry. Just been looking at dev topics too long where some people are oblivious to everything.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
No worries, appreciate the reply back!
So, rather then litter the forums with duplicate threads or encouraging duplicates, i'll just toss random questions and happenings in this one regarding my experiences with the device.
At least until i've had time to go through this sub-forum for the device more.
Feel free to answer any questions or not seen here, or comment on anything in this thread.
I just got home and my otterbox defender was here. Never had an otterbox before, so - wow.
Insane level of protection. Before it was so light and fragile feeling. Now, I like it so much better. A little bit of weight, a little bit of bulk, in just the right amount.
I feel like this device was made with the intention of sticking it in this case.
...And putting it in the holster, makes like the completion of armor for the device, what with the hard plastic shell shielding the screen from harm.
Seriously thinking about cutting the belt clip off and just leaving the smooth armor shell piece to pop on and slide the device into my pocket with. Seems like the perfect tweak to make it just right.
I feel likw even after only having it for a few hours that my future devices will take into account whether or not I can get one of these for it.
Okay - the drawback to having a screen big enough to actually use a soft keyboard on is the denial of one handed use.
No matter how I hold it, I just can't manage the device with one hand.
Now that I have the otterbox on it, i've been willing to try shifting my grip one handed during use, but really doesn't help much.
My other device is much smaller and I can use the whole screen comfortably with one thumb.
This one, not so much. If I have to reach across the screen, my palm will hit something before my thumb can get there.
I do think the benefits of the larger screen on my eyes and the actual enjoyment of the device far outweighs this inconvenience - but it does bug me.
Blue6IX said:
Okay - the drawback to having a screen big enough to actually use a soft keyboard on is the denial of one handed use.
No matter how I hold it, I just can't manage the device with one hand.
Now that I have the otterbox on it, i've been willing to try shifting my grip one handed during use, but really doesn't help much.
My other device is much smaller and I can use the whole screen comfortably with one thumb.
This one, not so much. If I have to reach across the screen, my palm will hit something before my thumb can get there.
I do think the benefits of the larger screen on my eyes and the actual enjoyment of the device far outweighs this inconvenience - but it does bug me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may like this then Again you may not. But hope it helps. http://flygrip.com/
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
bgolden84 said:
You may like this then Again you may not. But hope it helps. http://flygrip.com/
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, I had seen that before but it wasn't something I could really use with my other devices.
I may have to give it another look, given that this SGSIII is about what that thing was designed for.
Thanks for reminding me of something I had written off long ago.
bgolden84 said:
You may like this then Again you may not. But hope it helps. http://flygrip.com/
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is actually pretty damn cool.I just wonder if it would annoy me for my phone to not sit flat on its back.
Edit: Oh wow. $30 for a little piece of plastic. Eek. I don't think i could live with myself if I spent that much on this.
I wonder how much that flygrip thing hinders getting it in/out of a pocket??
When you do get around to trying ROMs let me suggest the Synergy ROM. It is actively developed, offers all the good of Samsung's skin along with most of the great tweaks that make rooting so worth while. Moving from the DX to this phone has been great largely in part to this ROM.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1792499
Sent on the fly.
azumandias said:
When you do get around to trying ROMs let me suggest the Synergy ROM. It is actively developed, offers all the good of Samsung's skin along with most of the great tweaks that make rooting so worth while. Moving from the DX to this phone has been great largely in part to this ROM.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1792499
Sent on the fly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Appreciate the heads up. Today is the last day of return without penalty, think i'm gonna keep it.
Right now It's just rooted, awesome quick guide here somewhere and I was able to bang it out in a few minutes while I was packing my truck to hit the road again for work.
When I get the chance, i'll pop a custom recovery in to block ota's - but right now exploring touchwiz and deciding what I do and don't like.
One thing bugging me is the device never seeming to be able to resume playing music after a call without having to mess with it... no matter what player I use.
No slight against the devs who put so much of themselves into the great works they've made for this device, but most likely I won't sample the roms available and just craft my own. I'll never get what I want unless I build it myself.
Thinking this time i'll just build from source instead of hacking apart a manufacturers version of Android.
Most likely i'll wait until i've got what I want or very near to before playing with other devs works. In large part to keep myself from being influenced by the directions they've taken.
I still haven't recovered all the files I hosted before goo went down, so getting all my works back up and available from my other device is taking up the time I can allocate to dev at the moment.
My laptop is on it's last legs, so until I can replace it ( not long now! ) can't get any real dev done anyway. Just small stuff. Can't keep it cool enough to compile a kernel even sitting on a hotel A/C vent to make it through the whole compile process of a gingerbread kernel without overheating and crashing...ICS is beyond the capabilities of my available hardware at the moment unfortunately.
Work is keeping me mad busy travelling the country ( USA) but i'm starting to have little bits of free time here and there around the constant exhaustion.
Pretty soon I should not only have the physical ability to stay awake long enough to learn something, but also the necessary hardware to do the learning on.
Meantime, it's ten or fifteen minutes of research here and there trying to familiarize myself with the device and the ICS source on my laptop for as long as I can keep it from overheating and shutting off.
It's okay, though, there's a lot to catch up on without needing to dive in and do for me at this point anyway, so the lack of acceptable hardware is more of an annoyance then a hindrance.
I figure i'll just keep adding random notes and observations to this thread to look back on later.
Comments, criticisms and suggestions most welcome from all of you out there!
How did you "thank" your own posts?
Sent from a strange blue box hurtling through time and space.
Haro912 said:
How did you "thank" your own posts?
Sent from a strange blue box hurtling through time and space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no clue, it's showing I thanked both mine and yours, but I hadn't even seen yours yet and it already showed thanks for it?
Okay - palm swipe for screenshot is virtually impossible with the raised edges of the otterbox defender around the screen.
Might also be my not having cut out the otterbox screen protector yet, so has two on it and touches suck sometimes.
Well, just threw cwm on it, to block the ota.
...and found picture in picture video vieqing - so cool. I'm watching a movie right now while typing his on he S3. That's foward pogress and leveraging multi-tasking capabilities.
I'm sorta interested in this phone because of the camera. Anyone working on or know of an android port being worked up for this guy?
Soulripper180 said:
I'm sorta interested in this phone because of the camera. Anyone working on or know of an android port being worked up for this guy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no such thing. People have enough time just hacking Windows Phone. You'll probably have to wait until Microsoft abandons WP and Nokia is free to make Android phones. At least a few more years. Microsoft has lots of money.
katamari201 said:
There's no such thing. People have enough time just hacking Windows Phone. You'll probably have to wait until Microsoft abandons WP and Nokia is free to make Android phones. At least a few more years. Microsoft has lots of money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's to hoping such a thing does come true some time in the near future. "Nokita" is trying to wrestle Nokia from Microsoft because they know the OS is garbage.
I would love to have this camera phone at concerts and other low light situations.
kaslopis said:
Here's to hoping such a thing does come true some time in the near future. "Nokita" is trying to wrestle Nokia from Microsoft because they know the OS is garbage.
I would love to have this camera phone at concerts and other low light situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I came to this thread for the same reasons as the OP.
So, in short, there's no way to hack Android onto the 1020 (yet)?
Are there regular updates and/or leaked ROMs for Windows Phone OS?
Never seen Windows Phone myself (other than a few seconds in videos and still pics) but why does it suck in your view?
I find windows very slick. I have come from Symbian, which I liked and also tried android which I didn't like. The 1020 is a very smooth phone with a great camera. The only complaint I hear from people is the app store, but to be honest that not an issue for me as I don't buy phones for the apps.
Having owned many Android devices, and having come from being a 2.5 year iPhone user, I have to laugh at your comment. Windows Phone 8 is nowhere near "Garbage", and your statement is a clear indicator that you haven't used it and your opinion on the matter is of no value. WP, unlike Android, is fast, stable and consistent across devices. It offers unique features, and unlike Android, isn't hobbled by yet another copy of the 30+ year old Xerox Parc UI paradigm.
Nokia's board has approved the sale, thankfully. There will never, EVER be a Nokia phone with Android, and that's a GOOD thing. Android is a crap OS for anyone but people who like to endlessly **** with their phone. For people who like their devices to be highly usable, stable, reliable and work-focused, Windows Phone is a far better choice.
I personally abandoned Android on tablets and iOS on everything, and I won't be going back. Windows offers a better experience, kiddies.
kaslopis said:
Here's to hoping such a thing does come true some time in the near future. "Nokita" is trying to wrestle Nokia from Microsoft because they know the OS is garbage.
I would love to have this camera phone at concerts and other low light situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kaslopis said:
Here's to hoping such a thing does come true some time in the near future. "Nokita" is trying to wrestle Nokia from Microsoft because they know the OS is garbage.
I would love to have this camera phone at concerts and other low light situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, I don't care what phone you use. Android, IOS, whatever (I've had them all). Different phones will have ups and downs depending on your usage. They all have something that we like and something that we don't and its up to you to choose which is best for you but if I'm being honest, you're statement just makes you sound like a total knob head. It's baseless dribble and obviously from someone that's never used WP8 in any kind of serious fashion.
You can knock the apps which by the way are increasing everyday as people realize that this is a real OS, but don't make yourself sound like a complete moron.
Just my 2 cents. Have a nice day.
mobi said:
You know, I don't care what phone you use. Android, IOS, whatever (I've had them all). Different phones will have ups and downs depending on your usage. They all have something that we like and something that we don't and its up to you to choose which is best for you but if I'm being honest, you're statement just makes you sound like a total knob head. It's baseless dribble and obviously from someone that's never used WP8 in any kind of serious fashion.
You can knock the apps which by the way are increasing everyday as people realize that this is a real OS, but don't make yourself sound like a complete moron.
Just my 2 cents. Have a nice day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh lord, forgive me for knocking a WP around WP enthusiast. Shoot -- why not just stick with a rock solid Blackberry; what could possibly go wrong? I have owned an HTC Radar and no, I did not have a good experience overall. It is pretty much garbage when no one wants to develop for it. I for one enjoy the versatility of an android phone, that's all I need.
http://liliputing.com/2013/11/nokita-wants-to-buy-nokia-before-microsoft-can-only-needs-10-billion-by-november-19th.html
Hey believe me I'm happy you guys are Mc'lovin WP, but I believe Nokia is making a bad move. Hopefully I'm wrong. Pz
kaslopis said:
Oh lord, forgive me for knocking a WP around WP enthusiast. Shoot -- why not just stick with a rock solid Blackberry; what could possibly go wrong? I have owned an HTC Radar and no, I did not have a good experience overall. It is pretty much garbage when no one wants to develop for it. I for one enjoy the versatility of an android phone, that's all I need.
http://liliputing.com/2013/11/nokita-wants-to-buy-nokia-before-microsoft-can-only-needs-10-billion-by-november-19th.html
Hey believe me I'm happy you guys are Mc'lovin WP, but I believe Nokia is making a bad move. Hopefully I'm wrong. Pz
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I hardly think an htc radar is even a remotely good example a of a good windows phone. You really need to look a phone that isn't more than two years old.
cambo1 said:
I hardly think an htc radar is even a remotely good example a of a good windows phone. You really need to look a phone that isn't more than two years old.
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I really think it is of no concern if it is an entry level or high end device when it comes to developing for something that you need. This is what kaslopis was talking about i think...
Everyone can see that from the store, where i can find only 2 apps from the ~ 10 apps i use every day on my android phone.
I am also thinking of switching sides, but i could not live without those apps. So maybe i will wait another year, but then lumia 1020 won't be such an up to date device.
I so hate microsoft for not encouraging developers. the apps in the store are a silly joke. Most of them look like they were designed to run on 240*320 java phones...
http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/10/5197746/nokia-android-phone-normandy
really?
jasongw said:
Having owned many Android devices, and having come from being a 2.5 year iPhone user, I have to laugh at your comment. Windows Phone 8 is nowhere near "Garbage", and your statement is a clear indicator that you haven't used it and your opinion on the matter is of no value. WP, unlike Android, is fast, stable and consistent across devices. It offers unique features, and unlike Android, isn't hobbled by yet another copy of the 30+ year old Xerox Parc UI paradigm.
Nokia's board has approved the sale, thankfully. There will never, EVER be a Nokia phone with Android, and that's a GOOD thing. Android is a crap OS for anyone but people who like to endlessly **** with their phone. For people who like their devices to be highly usable, stable, reliable and work-focused, Windows Phone is a far better choice.
I personally abandoned Android on tablets and iOS on everything, and I won't be going back. Windows offers a better experience, kiddies.
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Funny they just announced some.
Soulripper180 said:
I'm sorta interested in this phone because of the camera. Anyone working on or know of an android port being worked up for this guy?
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The only reason to by this phone - camera that takes 7K pictures in RAW format. Nothing else. The applications that you could use the
to read
Coffee Reader (supports OPDS libraries)
to buy
eBay app
Social
Instagram (beta), Facebook
to listen
Pandora
and pretty much that's it. very limited amount of apps but it doesn't matter because of the camera.
Best camera ever. That's all.
Well, I said it all. Sorry WP lovers.
If you are moving from Android to WP, you will be going to regret it. This phone offers greatest even mobile phone. There is nothing else in it.
I do not say Android does not have any bugs or area or improvements. But, the Windows, which is still the king of desktops/laptops lags light years when it comes to mobile phone.
Here is quick summary:
+ Best camera
+ Good preloaded Photo edit softwares.
+ Cortana - Personal voice assistant.
+ Cool animation of the menu.
- Pathetic App store. Hardly any usable Apps. Most of them are fake.
- You never know where the file went after receiving over Bluetooth.
- I don't know why I can play only 20% of copies songs (copied from Windows laptop)!! It just refuses to show the rest.
- Even a simple setting is hidden as if it were a secret. Do some Treasure Hunt to understand the phone.
- Last, never drop the phone even from a height of 1 foot. (I dropped it and front glass shattered. you can not just replace the glass, but the whole display assembly. That will increase your repair charges from few dollars to 100+ dollars). Yes it has Gorilla glass!! (which, I later realized, is just scratch proof, not shatter proof).
Well, i am still using this phone just for the camera.
Hi everyone,
Like most people I've been aware of the news articles about Goggle and Apple tracking peoples activity on their smartphones for a long time (not to mention the other app companies), that combined with a lack of a real need for the capabilities of a smartphone means I've stuck with old fashioned "dumb" phones and until recently I've been content with them.
That changed during the long lockdowns, I became aware for the first time of some of the alternative privacy focused OS's that were out there. I also found some of the Chinese rugged phones and even after the the initial "ooh shiny" reaction faded I still liked the idea of them and as my current phone seems to be dieing I thought I'd look if any of these privacy OS's were compatible with any of the rugged smartphones. That turned into a real rabbit hole that I'm still trying to find my way out of.
Could any of the kind souls here take pity on a bewildered, bamboozled and quite frankly utterly and completely lost idiot and maybe suggest either a device compatible with any of these OS's or something that could be tinkered to work?
I don't feel I know enough on this subject to narrow down what I want in the OS other than I would like to run one or two google apps on it. I know this might defeat the point of degoogleing the phone but they are just apps for public transport in my area.
As for the hardware, as I haven't used a smartphone before I can't really say much about what I'm looking for. The only things I really want would be a a minimum of a 6 inch, decent enough CPU, ram ect that using it dosen't make me feel like I'm pulling out my hair and a camera that can take at least an OKish picture and a large battery.
I apologize if this post reads like I'm a choosy beggar, I really want to find a combination that works but I just seem to be getting myself more and more confused.
Many thanks for taking the time to read this post
The phone's Android version should be Android 8+ thus it's Project Treble enabled, means you are able to flash GSI ROMs.
That was one option I was looking into but some sources seemed to say it couldn't be done on Mediatek powered devices as the company doesn't release their drivers. If thats wrong it would certanly be an easy option.
You may look inside here:
Complete List of Lineage OS Supported Devices | KrispiTech 2023
Here you will find a list of every single Android smartphone and tablet that currently has official support for the popular custom ROM Lineage OS.
krispitech.com
Thanks for the suggestion and link jwoegerbauer, I'll have a look and see if theirs anything that fits.