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Is this for real? [Android from my personal perspective]

Hi there,
I have been an avid iOS user since it came out in 2007. I owned an iPad 2 for long time and was very used to its speed. Surfing was really fun because scrolling was as soft as cutting through butter. I was thinking that this is how surfing was meant in the first place. Hence the iPad redefined "surfing" for me. I rarely used my Laptop after the iPad.
And... well, recently I bought the new Nexus 7 to see how far Android has gone. I never owned an Android device before. But i occasionally tested it over the years. My overall impression was, that it's too laggy. Even though today's android devices have strong hardware specs. It was laggy.
But I thought to myself: Google had 5 years to tune android. When I got the Nexus 7 I was hoping to get a fluent experience that I was used to from my iPad 2.
But no. One of the first things I did was to install Adobe Reader, because the main purpose was reading PDFs on the Nexus besides surfing. I was shocked. It was sluggish and really laggy. Even though the device had 2 GB of Ram and a high-speed CPU? I compared it to my 2 years old iPhone 4S. I installed the iOS version of Adobe reader and compared it to the nexus. It was fun to scroll. No, I mean it. After seeing it on the Nexus 7 it was great to have the speedy iOS below my finger tips. Then I spent several hours on searching for other PDF readers. I tried out many. Only a few had a considerably good speed. But those also had many downsides. Either they were really ugly or didn't provide important functions like bookmarks. Eventually I gave up and stuck to Adobe reader. What a miserable fail.
Surfing on the Nexus wasn't fun either. Chrome is even more sluggish. Not comparable to Safari on the iPad. Remember when I wrote that I put my Laptop aside in the most cases when I first got the iPad? In this case there was no urge to do so. Surfing was a pain.
I installed the AOSP browser. It was way better than Chrome considering speed and scrolling/zooming. But it had bugs on non root 4.3. The control elements disappeared regularly. And, yes, it wasn't beautiful.
How is this possible? Is this real? How come the Nexus fails at its two most important tasks? Surfing and reading PDFs?
In my eyes Google has failed. I gave them 5 years to make up their mistakes. They ended up making a device, that's behind my iPhone 4S considering the real life usage speed.
I don't care much about the specs. If it runs smooth, it's good. If not, it's not. My iPhone 4S has 512 MB of RAM and runs smoother than Google's state of the art device.
Ok, now I want to know your opinion about this matter. Did I do something wrong by having the same expectations that were set as standard for me by using an iPad?

ABBCC11 said:
Hi there,
I have been an avid iOS user since it came out in 2007. I owned an iPad 2 for long time and was very used to its speed. Surfing was really fun because scrolling was as soft as cutting through butter. I was thinking that this is how surfing was meant in the first place. Hence the iPad redefined "surfing" for me. I rarely used my Laptop after the iPad.
And... well, recently I bought the new Nexus 7 to see how far Android has gone. I never owned an Android device before. But i occasionally tested it over the years. My overall impression was, that it's too laggy. Even though today's android devices have strong hardware specs. It was laggy.
But I thought to myself: Google had 5 years to tune android. When I got the Nexus 7 I was hoping to get a fluent experience that I was used to from my iPad 2.
But no. One of the first things I did was to install Adobe Reader, because the main purpose was reading PDFs on the Nexus besides surfing. I was shocked. It was sluggish and really laggy. Even though the device had 2 GB of Ram and a high-speed CPU? I compared it to my 2 years old iPhone 4S. I installed the iOS version of Adobe reader and compared it to the nexus. It was fun to scroll. No, I mean it. After seeing it on the Nexus 7 it was great to have the speedy iOS below my finger tips. Then I spent several hours on searching for other PDF readers. I tried out many. Only a few had a considerably good speed. But those also had many downsides. Either they were really ugly or didn't provide important functions like bookmarks. Eventually I gave up and stuck to Adobe reader. What a miserable fail.
Surfing on the Nexus wasn't fun either. Chrome is even more sluggish. Not comparable to Safari on the iPad. Remember when I wrote that I put my Laptop aside in the most cases when I first got the iPad? In this case there was no urge to do so. Surfing was a pain.
I installed the AOSP browser. It was way better than Chrome considering speed and scrolling/zooming. But it had bugs on non root 4.3. The control elements disappeared regularly. And, yes, it wasn't beautiful.
How is this possible? Is this real? How come the Nexus fails at its two most important tasks? Surfing and reading PDFs?
In my eyes Google has failed. I gave them 5 years to make up their mistakes. They ended up making a device, that's behind my iPhone 4S considering the real life usage speed.
I don't care much about the specs. If it runs smooth, it's good. If not, it's not. My iPhone 4S has 512 MB of RAM and runs smoother than Google's state of the art device.
Ok, now I want to know your opinion about this matter. Did I do something wrong by having the same expectations that were set as standard for me by using an iPad?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what you want. Are you asking a question?
As for your observations, I have a Nexus 7 and a Galaxy Note 8, as well as an iPad 2. I don't have the same experience that you describe even with the nexus 7 stock.
In terms of comparing the devices, they don't even come close. The iPad is an overpriced, crippled Kindle.
There are so many things that an Android based device can do that iOS device will never LET you do, even if you jailbreak.
Use the device you like ... it's as simple as that.

quattros said:
I'm not sure what you want. Are you asking a question?
As for your observations, I have a Nexus 7 and a Galaxy Note 8, as well as an iPad 2. I don't have the same experience that you describe even with the nexus 7 stock.
In terms of comparing the devices, they don't even come close. The iPad is an overpriced, crippled Kindle.
There are so many things that an Android based device can do that iOS device will never LET you do, even if you jailbreak.
Use the device you like ... it's as simple as that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here i have an ipad mini and a Note 2 and I even Use my Note more often then the ipad to surf the web etc...
The Android system is so more Open and has much more to offer...
The iPad is like a overpriced Browser for the Couch...
Sent from my Note 2

Ok, sorry guys. Let's stick to the following two questions:
1. Safari on iPad is smoother than any Android browser out there. Do you agree? Yes/No? Why not?
2. There is no good PDF reader for Android. They are all sluggish and/or don't provide good interface and/or bookmarks functionality. Do you agree? Yes/No? Why not?
What browser do you use on your note 2?

ABBCC11 said:
Ok, sorry guys. Let's stick to the following two questions:
1. Safari on iPad is smoother than any Android browser out there. Do you agree? Yes/No? Why not?
2. There is no good PDF reader for Android. They are all sluggish and/or don't provide good interface and/or bookmarks functionality. Do you agree? Yes/No? Why not?
What browser do you use on your note 2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check out Dolphin browser.
Frankly I've seen ios based devices be sluggish / have crappy apps / not work right / fail just as much as any other device ... they're not made with fairy dust.

Well, I am not sure if this is intentional, but the tone you use is that of a biased fan, not of a person that wishes to hold an objective discussion.
Let's start from the beginning: Google does not manufacture every Android device. They do not manufacture your Nexus 7 (ASUS does), and they do not tinker their OS specifically for a particular device. Google release their code, and then manufacturers are tasked to implement it as they see fit. The issue at hand here is that Google's developers do not really have a 'base minimum' architecture with which to work. When they develop Android they have to take into account that their code will be run by 256MB as well as 3GB RAM devices. Or from single-core A7 700MhZ devices all the way to quad-core beasts. By default, it is hard to find the right balance. The end result is that Android is not designed/catered for a particular architecture.
By comparison, Apple works with specific architectures, which they were even involved in designing. They have a small handful devices to support, and they can make sure that things work smoothly from one device to another.
Objectively, I agree that iOS is more stable, fluid and responsive on the same hardware compared to an Android device of the same specifications. Of course, the problem here is that even with the same specification, due to different Android implementations you could have Android devices performing vastly differently. The beast in question here is complexity.
Nexus 7 is a decent device, but it is far from being high-end in Android. Given that Android seems to use more resources than iOS (in terms of RAM, but also in terms of CPU/GPU requirements -- and this is a direct consequence of having to work for a huge range of different architectures), it seems to me that almost no Android devices can offer you indisputably superior stability, fluidity and responsiveness. But it is hard to understand why Android can be 'slow'. For example, HTC One S overclocked running custom ROMs can be blazing fast. I would say almost, if not even better than (in certain situations) any iPhone device. Then, on the other hand, the Sony Xperia T which has the same CPU as the HTC One S is a very slow device, with many hangs and freezes with its stock ROM. The reason is different optimization, and the main culprit behind any discrepancies in performance for Android.
Apple's iPhone 'works out of the box'. It is stable, fluid and responsive. For the average user, I can completely understand why this is beneficial. To get the most out of Android, you are on the right way as there are many intelligent and hard-working people around here who work with particular devices trying to get the most out of them. I am certain that there is the right ROM + Kernel configuration for you out there that will help you get the most out of your Nexus 7.
With that said however, keep an eye on the new Spandragon 800 and Mediatek octacore devices. We are already seeing some incredibly powerful Android phones that I really believe you will find much faster on every account than the best iPhone out there right now.

grcd said:
Well, I am not sure if this is intentional, but the tone you use is that of a biased fan, not of a person that wishes to hold an objective discussion.
Let's start from the beginning: Google does not manufacture every Android device. They do not manufacture your Nexus 7 (ASUS does), and they do not tinker their OS specifically for a particular device. Google release their code, and then manufacturers are tasked to implement it as they see fit. The issue at hand here is that Google's developers do not really have a 'base minimum' architecture with which to work. When they develop Android they have to take into account that their code will be run by 256MB as well as 3GB RAM devices. Or from single-core A7 700MhZ devices all the way to quad-core beasts. By default, it is hard to find the right balance. The end result is that Android is not designed/catered for a particular architecture.
By comparison, Apple works with specific architectures, which they were even involved in designing. They have a small handful devices to support, and they can make sure that things work smoothly from one device to another.
Objectively, I agree that iOS is more stable, fluid and responsive on the same hardware compared to an Android device of the same specifications. Of course, the problem here is that even with the same specification, due to different Android implementations you could have Android devices performing vastly differently. The beast in question here is complexity.
Nexus 7 is a decent device, but it is far from being high-end in Android. Given that Android seems to use more resources than iOS (in terms of RAM, but also in terms of CPU/GPU requirements -- and this is a direct consequence of having to work for a huge range of different architectures), it seems to me that almost no Android devices can offer you indisputably superior stability, fluidity and responsiveness. But it is hard to understand why Android can be 'slow'. For example, HTC One S overclocked running custom ROMs can be blazing fast. I would say almost, if not even better than (in certain situations) any iPhone device. Then, on the other hand, the Sony Xperia T which has the same CPU as the HTC One S is a very slow device, with many hangs and freezes with its stock ROM. The reason is different optimization, and the main culprit behind any discrepancies in performance for Android.
Apple's iPhone 'works out of the box'. It is stable, fluid and responsive. For the average user, I can completely understand why this is beneficial. To get the most out of Android, you are on the right way as there are many intelligent and hard-working people around here who work with particular devices trying to get the most out of them. I am certain that there is the right ROM + Kernel configuration for you out there that will help you get the most out of your Nexus 7.
With that said however, keep an eye on the new Spandragon 800 and Mediatek octacore devices. We are already seeing some incredibly powerful Android phones that I really believe you will find much faster on every account than the best iPhone out there right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good, I've never paid attention to those.

I think it is not the hardware, but the software that is important.
No doubt the Nexus 7 has enough power to deliver a smooth browsing and PDF reading experience (see AOSP browser for example).
But the sluggish apps make you have no fun with the device. There is no decent PDF reader out there. Chrome is slow and AOSP is hard to install on non root devices.

Try dolphin 10 with jetpack browsing and ezpdf pro for pdfs.

mashed_ash said:
Try dolphin 10 with jetpack browsing and ezpdf pro for pdfs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Big agreement on Dolphin 10 with jetpack. Chrome and firefox are laggy, Stock browser stinks too.
Also agree w/ summary by 'grcd' above re: different hardware implementations using a stock OS. Take-away: Find the OEMs who are most responsive / most attentive / focused on quality and user experience. If you're a business user - find those that cater to business. If you only care about consumer media / gaming - the world is your oyster, eat it at your peril.
I work at the largest networking company in the world, and only two device vendors are 'recommended' buys for BYOD: Apple and Samsung... read between the lines.
FWIW:
My experience with Android (3 devices since 2.x) - on phones, 'multi-tasking' takes away from core phone functionality that should ALWAYS be prioritized. Phone functions should preempt all other actions in the device, every time, no exceptions. When i want to dial a number or respond to an incoming call, every other process had better bail / suspend / hibernate, whatever it takes to get out of the way. Think fire truck and heavy traffic - pull right / left and stop to get out of the way.
On tablets not used as phones, there should simply be consistency of operation, smoothness of interaction, it should feel elegant. Apple wins this hands down from what I've seen. I've never owned an apple product for daily use, and that still comes across loud and clear.
20 years in IT - I'm a tech geek by choice, love to fiddle with the bits... but starting to lean to less distraction with the apple hardware/software package. Thinking 'more do... less fiddle'.
Biggest apple gripes off topic: arbitrary cellular download limits (100MB in iOS 7), no SD/MicroSD, no USB, no Flash... hmmm, can I really live with that. May have to try one out for a couple of weeks.
happy computing!

I've always preferred the way Android devices scroll. On iOS you have to swipe a lot more to scroll through a page, where on Android one fast swipe will keep scrolling. iOS also has that annoying overscroll feature where the page keeps scrolling and then bounces back. I find that annoying as you have to wait for the bounce back to stop before you can start reading the page.
If you are ok with the limitations of iOS, nobody is stopping you from using it. For me personally I'd rather put up with a bit of lag if it means I get more features.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 4

2 troll points for effort but that's it.

I've also noticed that pdf and office software in general is very sluggish when compared to iOS. Browsing definitely isn't as smooth as well. Regardless, iOS 7 killed any love I had left for my iPad, so it looks like I'm on to a Windows tablet in the near future.

On an overclocked note 2, running a debloated ROM whips an iphone's speeds, coming from using both. Adobe reader is just slow by itself.
Sent from carbon note 2 on XDA premium app

I find it odd that no one's mentioned Naked Browser or Easy Browser!?
I use Naked Browser and it's very fast, no lags. Very efficient browser, very small RAM usage.
Only downside for some ppl would be the GUI, it's not meant to be pretty.

Pixel 5 hate thread

One place for all the negative comments and feelings about Google and the Pixel 5. And just think, if we keep it civil the mods won't close it. And Pixel fans ... allow detractors to vent. (but not too much)
Pixel 5 almost Sage - Nov 3 - 4 delivery

So many ppl hating. I dont get it. Im leaving a Samsung phone for the P5 and couldn't be happier. Ppl gonna say the S20fe is a better deal but they forget that they have to deal with the horrible OneUI OS, and short device support for updates among other things. I haven't had a Pixel since the OG and I'm really looking forward to going back to stock Android.

Even though I pre-ordered and this is not strictly "hate" per-se. I wish the screen was 6.2" to 6.5" with a 4500 mAh+ battery. Part of me feels the 4080 mAh battery now is not going to give it any better battery life than my 3a XL.
@TokedUp
Samsung promised previously that all phones from the Samsung S10 and beyond is getting 3 years of OS updates and security updates. So the S20 FE should be getting well Android 11, 12, 13, and patches. I also can't stand other UIs other than stock or near-stock. My least favorite was not OneUI but rather Huawei's EMUI.

No hate here. People don't realize it's a different Pixel experience. Different strokes for different folks though. I always seem to come back to a Pixel.

I hate that it has 5G, a useless, dangerous technology.

I wish it had the 865 and Wifi 6. Other than that, I'm super stoked. Waiting for my pre-order

@TokedUp
Samsung promised previously that all phones from the Samsung S10 and beyond is getting 3 years of OS updates and security updates. So the S20 FE should be getting well Android 11, 12, 13, and patches. I also can't stand other UIs other than stock or near-stock. My least favorite was not OneUI but rather Huawei's EMUI.[/QUOTE]
Does nothing for me since I have a Note 9 which could easily run Android 11 but will not get the update. I cannot wait to sell this Sammy phone as soon as my P5 comes.

pcloadletter1 said:
5G dangerous technology
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how so?

Well done to the OP for this thread. I'll be happily following it and hoping it does as intended.

pcloadletter1 said:
I hate that it has 5G, a useless, dangerous technology.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Watch this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjEwOAs2Kto
Basically, science says it shouldn't be dangerous to your health, but fake science seems to get more views and people buying into it everyday. It's non-ionizing radiation. Also, the frequencies 5G tech uses has been used by many other devices over the last 30 years.
Some tech/devices that have been using 5 GHz...radar dishes, cordless phones (like the ones you used to use at home), WiFi, etc.

Acreo Aeneas said:
Watch this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjEwOAs2Kto
Basically, science says it shouldn't be dangerous to your health, but fake science seems to get more views and people buying into it everyday. It's non-ionizing radiation. Also, the frequencies 5G tech uses has been used by many other devices over the last 30 years.
Some tech/devices that have been using 5 GHz...radar dishes, cordless phones (like the ones you used to use at home), WiFi, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
5G uses 24 GHz which is a mmWave and has nothing to do with wifi. Higher freq 95 GHz mmWaves are used in weapons. Low power phones shouldn't be dangerous, but the higher power towers could be, but it's too early to tell. It's the reason some countries stopped or prevented 5G deployment.
Besides, 5G is an $100 on the 4a. I would rather have $100 than a tech I can't use.

Generally speaking, 'hating' on a product based solely on its published specs is absurd - either the company in question have made a device that you want to buy or they haven't.
However, Google 'made' the only handsets I've owned with stock Android which just worked. After my Nexus 5 screen broke, I bought the HTC One M8 - not cheap, but the specs were everything I could want (at the time). Unfortunately, the software blew chunks. I had a OnePlus X with a near-stock OS - but the software (particularly the camera) was buggier than a buggy thing in a buggy contest.
What I want is-
A google phone (stock Android that just works and has all the latest updates) with decent specs (would have been happy to pay a bit more for flagship CPU, but 765 will be adequate as I'm not paying flagship prices for it),
Ability to fit in my Dainese leather motorcycle jacket pocket (~Pixel 4 or smaller)
Ideally removable storage (uSD slot), or an option to spec 256GB (happy to pay more for storage)
Front facing stereo speakers (don't mind having top and bottom bezels if there's a good reason)
3.5mm headphone socket (I have decent bluetooth earbuds, but not as good as my wired earbuds that fit so much easier in my pocket)
Fingerprint unlock (ideally rear)
Decent battery life
Wireless charging
Video out over USB-C
This list in broadly in order of priority.. Obviously I pre-ordered the Pixel 5 before the launch event finished (or at least before it finished streaming for me - was somewhat laggy), but am disappointed that they left out some of my wants. Also no google watch again.

I wish we could get a pixel phone with more flagship specs , I was really hoping for a pixel 5 with a 6.8 or at least a 6.5 inch display. I prefer a big display but i hate all the ****ty uis that you need to deal with to have a phone with a big display .... I really wish there was another option for pure android other then the pixel. My note would be a worlds better phone if it was running pure android and have options to install any Samsung features you may need.
Dont really hate the new Pixel 5 just wish it were a bit bigger and faster

razor237 said:
I wish we could get a pixel phone with more flagship specs , I was really hoping for a pixel 5 with a 6.8 or at least a 6.5 inch display. I prefer a big display but i hate all the ****ty uis that you need to deal with to have a phone with a big display .... I really wish there was another option for pure android other then the pixel. My note would be a worlds better phone if it was running pure android and have options to install any Samsung features you may need.
Dont really hate the new Pixel 5 just wish it were a bit bigger and faster
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Faster for what?

They bailed on QHD after 5 years it was literally all I cared about (well unless they tried 4GB of RAM again lol)

Benjamin_L said:
Faster for what?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not ?? lol but that really wasn't the point i was going for. Using the better current gen CPU 865G over the 765G would mean a yes faster phone but will allow it to last longer and still perform good a few years from now. that's how i see it so you may not agree but it still would be nice to have seen a bigger screened pixel with the 865G and not the Pixel 4a 5G
They should just team up with Samsung and put out a true fan edition phone that makes android shine in its purest form

The only reason we're here is monthly updates and the next gen software. Oh, and the camera.

Samsung Galaxy Nexus was the first new android phone I owned
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_Nexus
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

haloimplant said:
They bailed on QHD after 5 years it was literally all I cared about (well unless they tried 4GB of RAM again lol)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This, and the physical screen size are my biggest concerns.
The early videos have somewhat eased my concern, except for the size of course.

bigknowz said:
Samsung Galaxy Nexus was the first new android phone I owned
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your my hero. List all your phones since than

Is 240hz touch of Poco X3 worth it vs 120hz touch offer by others?

I'm going for an upgrade.
Need help here guys. I am one of those who's suffering on their previous Poco F1 issues, ghost touch and hang just a couple of times this past years.
My main issue is the "touch reponse" always has the "DELAY" mix with screen freeze mostly triggered while gaming.
To those who already own it there:
• I'm just asking if their 240hz touch is TRUE and PRECISE, or too good to be true?
• Does it beats the other brands offering 90hz ref. rate / 120hz touch, 60hz ref. rate / 120hz touch in terms of gaming or not?
'Coz the phone price for the specs like the Poco F1 offers more bang in the buck rather than it's competitors, again I'm worried if the CUTS is on it's "touch reponse and screen issues again." Just don't want to lose money again on something not.
If not I'll just try other brand out there.

To answer both if your questions, it's yes to both.
I came from a Samsung Galaxy A71 which I paid WAY more for what it was worth and you get everything it says on the box.
120Hz is fluid and buttery smooth and touch response is lightning fast and precise, yes even in games.
Just be sure to download Arrow OS and use that because MIUI is filled to the brim with crap that will make your device very slightly sluggish.

I'd say each to their own. Go to a shop (if their open where you are) and try for yourself. If not then find one online with a good returns policy. Just as a side note my GF has an A71 and it is a way better phone overall. IMHO 60Hz Amoled beats this cheap 120Hz LCD (grey is my new black now lol). It's painful to look at, especially in low light environment. 240Hz touch responsiveness is just a number to me. Can't tell the difference. Then again it's a personal preference and I admit that I got this phone thanks to high numbers on the spec sheet for a low price.

Fellow Poco F1 user here.
Although the entire internet was plagued with problems with the F1, I however faced none of those. It does not mean your issues are invalid, but I'm just saying the group mentality made people believe their phone had issues that it never had. Things like Light Bleed and stuff were blown so much out of proportion that people actually recreated scenarios that they would never face normally just to make them feel bad about themselves. My Poco F1 is still an amazing phone and it also takes some of the best pictures with the right mods.
Back to the point, I see way too many AMOLED fan boys always claiming AMOLED is better even though they don't want to accept the draw backs or technical limitations. They see a phone selling AMOLED and immediately think it's better.
And back to the main main point...
240hz is hardly differential from nearer touch response rates and not even the most stock, unless the stock is absolutely garbage. On a phone, touch response hardly matters because there isn't enough IPC to make that response any worth it.
Summary :
Is Poco X3 truly responding to touch at 240HZ?
YES.
Will you notice the difference from a decent refresh rate from a modern phone and this phone which is so proud of its 240hz
NO
Enjoy your phone and don't fall into these technicalities. You're only putting your mind into this anxiety mode whether the purchase you made was worth it or not. This is a great phone and I love it and I've come from 1+, Samsung, Moto (Google owned Moto), Nexus and even Pixels.

Even when using an iOS device side by side, I can definitely feel there's a difference, it is certainly better.
But I'll talk about 2 issues first.
1. But sometimes, the touch doesn't work (like it needs grounding), like when my phone is lying flat on a certain bedsheet, I can't casually swipe, I need to hold it in my hand.
2. And long swipes need some polishing (software side) to be more natural, e.g. when u swipe up from launcher to open app drawer, u need to move ur thumb straight up, instead of slight natural diagonal movement else it may just swipe to next home screen or vice versa: opening app drawer instead of swiping to next screen. I come from color os, and it is certainly tuned to be more natural. (less feature rich than MIUI but better polished than other iOS inspired OEM skins)
Now pros:.
Touch responsiveness is way better than most android phones (I have used upto Samsung S10+ ceramic edition, oppo reno 3 pro) and iphone 8, X, XS series (before Apple fans flame, I'm talking just about responsiveness and accuracy).
You definitely feel it with gaming, no sensitivity settings is wrong (no aiming stutter or slip) infact it'll register the slightest movement and adjust your aim accordingly. Sometimes when my hands get sweaty I turn down the touch sensitivity in game space to 70 percent.

Yepi69 said:
To answer both if your questions, it's yes to both.
I came from a Samsung Galaxy A71 which I paid WAY more for what it was worth and you get everything it says on the box.
120Hz is fluid and buttery smooth and touch response is lightning fast and precise, yes even in games.
Just be sure to download Arrow OS and use that because MIUI is filled to the brim with crap that will make your device very slightly sluggish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, just wanted to know a few things, animations and transitions are jittery for some apps in MIUI, since you suggested arrow OS, does that get rid of these jitter and animation lags? Or is it a bad chip (which i doubt)
Moreover, does Arrow OS use MI Camera? Since it has option to use all sensors, do we get that in arrow? How is overall smoothness and camera quality?

ramnoob said:
Hey, just wanted to know a few things, animations and transitions are jittery for some apps in MIUI, since you suggested arrow OS, does that get rid of these jitter and animation lags? Or is it a bad chip (which i doubt)
Moreover, does Arrow OS use MI Camera? Since it has option to use all sensors, do we get that in arrow? How is overall smoothness and camera quality?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want jitter free experience, use ArrowOS + F1xy kernel.
F1xy custom kernel is focused to bring lower latency and reduce jitter as much as possible.
And no, ArrowOS doesn't use ANX Camera (Miui Camera). You need to flash it yourself.
crDroid comes with it if you want it.

I guess if you're here and changing from China spying crap rom and unlocking bl and bypassing ARP, no..
You will probably not find a better working drvier/setup for that if you install unofficial roms. Meaning you can expect lower performance on these pieces of hw. For the cpu, some unofficial roms can have better performance (not sure about camera and screen drivers, dependents if manufacturer releases src code).

SkaboXD said:
If you want jitter free experience, use ArrowOS + F1xy kernel.
F1xy custom kernel is focused to bring lower latency and reduce jitter as much as possible.
And no, ArrowOS doesn't use ANX Camera (Miui Camera). You need to flash it yourself.
crDroid comes with it if you want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I'll try it asap.

NiTrOwow said:
I guess if you're here and changing from China spying crap rom and unlocking bl and bypassing ARP, no..
You will probably not find a better working drvier/setup for that if you install unofficial roms. Meaning you can expect lower performance on these pieces of hw. For the cpu, some unofficial roms can have better performance (not sure about camera and screen drivers, dependents if manufacturer releases src code).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a lie if I ever saw one, I have ArrowOS with it's stock kernel (using MIUI's kernel sources) and everything works better than stock rom. Not to mention devs can implement driver updates for Qualcomm/Adreno chipset (AKA CAF versions) which improve performance much better than Stock ROM (manufactures usually take months to implement new drivers, if they ever do).

Yepi69 said:
That's a lie if I ever saw one, I have ArrowOS with it's stock kernel (using MIUI's kernel sources) and everything works better than stock rom. Not to mention devs can implement driver updates for Qualcomm/Adreno chipset (AKA CAF versions) which improve performance much better than Stock ROM (manufactures usually take months to implement new drivers, if they ever do).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to add that it's also dependable to skill of developers. We are covered here since we have so many talented developers, so you can except great ROM performance + battery life. Custom ROM experience is also dependable on quality of sources and Xiaomi is not the best in this regard compared to Google, but it gets the job done. Also good developers modify sources in a good way, which leds to improvement in source code.
All in all, good developer for the device can make custom ROM which performs much better than stock ROM. Especially MIUI.

What are 5 specific things you look for when buying a smartphone?

I think we have come to a point where smartphones have reached a mature phase in product design where there can only be marginal improvements in terms of performance and overall experience.
Year on year, there are marginal improvements in hardware and a lot of money is spent in marketing how the current version is an improvement over previous version. Tests are 'designed' to show the current version being 'x%' better than previous iteration, although there is hardly any noticeable difference in real life use.
Today, fortunately, the premium flagships are hardly any better than phones selling at half the price in terms of performance and overall experience. The primary or only differentiating factor is the Camera. So if you buy a $1,000 phone, it is just as good as a $500 phone in terms of performance and overall experience in day-to-day use. The other $500 is primarily for the camera! Ofcourse, there are some other benefits too that come for this premium, such as IP certification, 1 or 2 years of additional software support, etc.
With that background, what are specific things you look for when buying a smartphone today?
Here are some unique features offered by brands:
SAMSUNG​
1. Best cameras on an Android phone. If you have the budget, go for a Samsung flagship because the camera experience is best. Other brands are offering very good cameras too, but then overall Samsung leads here (Pixel is close).
2. Silent Call Recording (as of OneUI 5.0): Fortunately, this feature is still present in Samsung phones when other brands (including OnePlus, Xiaomi, etc.) have unfortunately moved on to replacing their dialers with Google Dialer.
OnePlus/ Xiaomi/ Oppo/ Vivo/ Realme/ Redmi/ iQOO​
1. Superfast charging: This is one area where Chinese brands have nailed it. The dual battery system, and charging technology that limits heating to the charger instead of the phone make this aspect an enviable feature for owners of other brands. Not sure why Samsung and other brands are not adopting similar technology.
2. Specialized cooling hardware: Specialized cooling technologies like vapour chamber, use of graphene, etc. to reduce thermal throttling is another area where they are doing exceedingly well.
3. Built-in firewall: This is one outstanding OS feature that only some brands like OnePlus, Oppo and Xiaomi (including Redmi) provide. It is not available on Vivo. Not sure about other brands.
4. Silent call recording (available as an option):
For OnePlus/ Oppo/ Realme: Install ODialer.
For iQOO/ Vivo: Enable Alternate Dialer and Contacts under Settings/ Apps
Pixel/ Nothing/ Motorola​
Stock Android experience which leaves a lot to desire.
Check out (and contribute to) the comparison of Android 13 features by brand here:
Comparing Android 13 features of different OEMs
In this post, I'm comparing the features available on Android 13 from different OEMs as of the end of 2022. Since some OEMs offer a different set of features for their budget devices, not all features available on one device will be available on...
forum.xda-developers.com

For premium smartphone
1. Stock Android
2. Decent cameras
3. Snapdragon processor
4. "Big battery" at least 5000 mAh or near
5. Build quality (metal frame)
6. Price under $1000 / 1000€ not over
For budjet smartphone
1. Stock Android
2. Decent cameras
3. Snapdragon processor
4. "Big battery" at least 5000 mAh or near
5. Price under $500 / 500€
I did not mentioned screens because i prefer LCD screen but most premium smartphones these days comes with oled screen. It's really hard to find premium high performance phone with LCD screen.

Dayuser said:
For premium smartphone
1. Stock Android
2. Decent cameras
3. Snapdragon processor
4. "Big battery" at least 5000 mAh or near
5. Build quality (metal frame)
6. Price under $1000 / 1000€ not over
For budjet smartphone
1. Stock Android
2. Decent cameras
3. Snapdragon processor
4. "Big battery" at least 5000 mAh or near
5. Price under $500 / 500€
I did not mentioned screens because i prefer LCD screen but most premium smartphones these days comes with oled screen. It's really hard to find premium high performance phone with LCD screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stock Android is quite basic and leaves a lot to desire for. I'm talking of features, and not UI. Examples would be scrolling screenshots, screen recording, gestures for activating features (e.g. 3 finger screenshot), etc.
Snapdragon processor: why is that a must? The Mediatek Dimensity series of processors are quite capable, and so is Exynos. I don't go by standard tests and numbers shown by them. They don't reflect real-life usage, and can be manipulated.
I'm happy you didn't mention 'glass back', because without wireless charging it is a liability.
And why 'decent' cameras for a premium phone? Great camera should be the criteria since that is what you are paying a premium for.
For me, this is how they would be:
Premium Phone
1. Best cameras
2. Silent call recording
So I'll choose Samsung as this is the only brand today with the above features.
Budget Phone
1. 3.5 mm headphone jack
2. Infrared (IR) blaster
So I'll choose a Xiaomi (Redmi) phone in this category as this is the only brand offering these features.
I'm not mentioning others like display, storage, ram, etc. as pretty much all premium flagship phones offer the same hardware. Same holds true for performance and battery life.

TheMystic said:
And why 'decent' cameras for a premium phone? Great camera should be the criteria since that is what you are paying a premium for.
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I mentioned "desent" in both categories because it's mainly up to user who knows what is great camera. All premium and flagship have good cameras, or at least main camera.
Snapdragon because GCam ports mainly works best on Snapdragon phones.

Dayuser said:
I mentioned "desent" in both categories because it's mainly up to user who knows what is great camera. All premium and flagship have good cameras, or at least main camera.
Snapdragon because GCam ports mainly works best on Snapdragon phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you really need GCam for a premium flagship phone? I think the stock cameras do a great job.
I see GCam as a nice solution for mid rangers that lack premium camera hardware and software processing required for excellent shots.

TheMystic said:
Do you really need GCam for a premium flagship phone? I think the stock cameras do a great job.
I see GCam as a nice solution for mid rangers that lack premium camera hardware and software processing required for excellent shots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No not really needs but it's a choice. It's really what people like.
Let's say it this way and this works for many brands.
If you want over saturated colors and over sharpened pictures, then use stock camera. If you want more natural colors and decent sharp.. use gcam.
and sometimes stock cameras noise processing is too much.
But all these what i said is small things and most of people doesn't really care

Dayuser said:
No not really needs but it's a choice. It's really what people like.
Let's say it this way and this works for many brands.
If you want over saturated colors and over sharpened pictures, then use stock camera. If you want more natural colors and decent sharp.. use gcam.
and sometimes stock cameras noise processing is too much.
But all these what i said is small things and most of people doesn't really care
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is true that often the difference in quality isn't substantial among premium smartphone cameras, and also that the end result is subjective. The cameras on my S22U are very good, and I never felt a need for GCam.
GCam is often found to over sharpen things a bit though.
On a personal level, i prefer great shots over natural ones, as long as saturation and other aspects aren't overdone.

Expandable storage, 1tb minimum.
I demand a dual drive device. Screw Google cattle herding the masses for their self serving ends. To hell with the idea cloud as a viable alternative. Right from the pages of MS's playbook of control.
Spen.
Square display corners, blah, blah, blah.
It's a lost cause... lol, I'll be using the N10+'s/Android 9 and 10 for another 3-5 years. Zero faith in Google or Samsung to get their sorry assets back in line ever again at this point. Junkware.

blackhawk said:
Expandable storage, 1tb minimum.
I demand a dual drive device. Screw Google cattle herding the masses for their self serving ends. To hell with the idea cloud as a viable alternative. Right from the pages of MS's playbook of control.
Spen.
Square display corners, blah, blah, blah.
It's a lost cause... lol, I'll be using the N10+'s/Android 9 and 10 for another 3-5 years. Zero faith in Google or Samsung to get their sorry assets back in line ever again at this point. Junkware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Expandable storage is something that only very few mid range devices offer. With higher internal storage and cloud services, OEMs have made it clear that it is not something they are willing to support.
A lot of investments are being made in technology and i don't want to lose out on these advancements on a personal level, as some of these features are truly incredible. But I am careful of granting permissions like camera, microphone, sms, etc. to apps and I don't use voice assistants (I'm not comfortable with the idea that something is constantly listening to me or my environment).
But it is a tradeoff, and it has to be that way. Without input, one cannot make use of technology. So everyone must part with an amount of data they are comfortable with. There should be very strong regulations where data being collected is strictly limited and some types of data must never be collected. GDPR is a welcome step in that direction, but is grossly inadequate and therefore ineffective. While it has forced companies to show a Privacy Policy message prompt, it has hardly done anything to what data is being collected, and if it is actually necessary for the product/ service being offered in return.

i always worry ONLY about 2 things when i buy a new phone :
1. can it be rooted
2. is there custom firmware (or is someone working on it)
This is about the only thing i worry about.
i will check later if i can also make a phonecall or take a picture also

contrinsan said:
i always worry ONLY about 2 things when i buy a new phone :
1. can it be rooted
2. is there custom firmware (or is someone working on it)
This is about the only thing i worry about.
i will check later if i can also make a phonecall or take a picture also
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stopped doing that a few years back. I would rather trust an OEM software than one made by an unknown developer. Besides, some of the developers are very arrogant.
And today, there isn't really anything a rooted device can do which a non-rooted device can't. The risk/ effort is not worth any potential marginal benefit.

contrinsan said:
i always worry ONLY about 2 things when i buy a new phone :
1. can it be rooted
2. is there custom firmware (or is someone working on it)
This is about the only thing i worry about.
i will check later if i can also make a phonecall or take a picture also
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same but i look for like famous phones among XDA developers

TheMystic said:
I stopped doing that a few years back. I would rather trust an OEM software than one made by an unknown developer. Besides, some of the developers are very arrogant.
And today, there isn't really anything a rooted device can do which a non-rooted device can't. The risk/ effort is not worth any potential marginal benefit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, i am running stock for 2 months now and i wish i never flashed stock android 12 because i don't find a way to go back to custom firmware but some things i really miss
- used to have phone call recording,
- adblocking without vpn or heavy battery use,
-youtube vanced working properly,
-wifi and 4g optimized
-battery use optimized and deep sleep working properly (my stock android 12 samsung s10e can run 8 up to 12 hours when i am at work, it is 12-18 hours when running CF. I can no longer survive a day at work without extra charging..
- change splashscreen, boot and shutdown logo, change whatever sound in the firmware,..
- viper sound mod for good sound experience or removing all kinds of annoying restrictions for louder music
- something i miss a lot : configuration of phone like 2 rows instead of one at the top (very uselful to have time with seconds and date on first line and all the notifications go on 2nd line)
- i also miss android auto being able to run other apps,
- i can only shutdown or restart the phone, no other options,
- i can no longer take screenshots from a payment in my banking app (and many other apps), - i can no longer decide i want 7 icons in the first line of the dropdown menu (and many, many, many, many other handy features)
these are just a couple i think about, there is also Xposed with so many handy things
Also if you want a little bit of privacy it is not possible on a phone that is stock android, it is also full with rubbish bloatware such as facebook and other spy programs that i can not remove unless when rooted.
i really see no advantage in having stock android, it makes me feel as if i don't own half of the phone

This is my list: is it bootloader unlockable?
Is it supported by lineage os and twrp?
Is it powerful enough?
If these are yes I could consider buying the device
Price under 500 €

contrinsan said:
well, i am running stock for 2 months now and i wish i never flashed stock android 12 because i don't find a way to go back to custom firmware but some things i really miss
- used to have phone call recording,
- adblocking without vpn or heavy battery use,
-youtube vanced working properly,
-wifi and 4g optimized
-battery use optimized and deep sleep working properly (my stock android 12 samsung s10e can run 8 up to 12 hours when i am at work, it is 12-18 hours when running CF. I can no longer survive a day at work without extra charging..
- change splashscreen, boot and shutdown logo, change whatever sound in the firmware,..
- viper sound mod for good sound experience or removing all kinds of annoying restrictions for louder music
- something i miss a lot : configuration of phone like 2 rows instead of one at the top (very uselful to have time with seconds and date on first line and all the notifications go on 2nd line)
- i also miss android auto being able to run other apps,
- i can only shutdown or restart the phone, no other options,
- i can no longer take screenshots from a payment in my banking app (and many other apps), - i can no longer decide i want 7 icons in the first line of the dropdown menu (and many, many, many, many other handy features)
these are just a couple i think about, there is also Xposed with so many handy things
Also if you want a little bit of privacy it is not possible on a phone that is stock android, it is also full with rubbish bloatware such as facebook and other spy programs that i can not remove unless when rooted.
i really see no advantage in having stock android, it makes me feel as if i don't own half of the phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Samsung is the only (or one of very few) OEM offering silent call recording feature today. Since Samsung flagship has (one of) the best cameras on any smartphone, this is my choice of Android for now.
2. Adblocking is possible using private DNS server (dns.adguard.com) that doesn't require VPN or drain battery.
3. Vanced YouTube (non-root) works perfectly fine on Android 13 (tested on OneUI, OOS and MIUI).
4. Viper makes a marginal difference today, especially over Bluetooth. This makes it unattractive given the efforts required to make it work today.
Many of the other stuff you mentioned are available only on custom ROMs, which I am unlikely to return to. They are non-essential and mostly 'fancy' stuff one can live without.
I use Google apps and some of their services (Photos, Drive, Gmail, YouTube, etc.) are very important for me. I have never seen any significant battery life gains with any custom ROM or tweaks as i can't uninstall Google Services.
Netguard does an excellent job of blocking unwanted apps and services from connecting to the internet.
There were essentially only a handful of things (adblocking, viper, titanium backups, ad-free YouTube) why I was rooting my devices, and pretty much all of those have proper non-root replacements today.

Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 phones

I'm trying to get an updated opinion about the "hot" snapdragon 8 gen 2 phones that are out currently. About 4-5 months ago the Vivo x90 Pro+ and Xiaomi 13 Ultra were the talk, but the vivo as it stands isn't going to be releasing a global version, and the CN version that a handful of people got their hands on, there is quite a bit of talk about all the bloatware on the device, plus notification issues, plus it doesn't appear as rooting it is anywhere in the near future for the phone.
The Xiaomi is an option and they have a global version in the talks, but apparently it might not come to the states and also I hear that the signal support is hit or miss.
Next up is the Samsung S23 Ultra; although I hear great things and generally speaking the hardware is pretty hard core, I don't have good experience with their interface. From personal experience using galaxy s6,7,8 bloatware is a HUGE issue and from what I hear not much has changed for the better since those models. Also I have read root is possible which is a plus on the S23 ultra, but still not sure if there are any limitations (outside of samsung software (I don't use samsung software)) such as google wallet/pay, bank apps, etc?
Moving on, Oneplus. I've always been a hit or miss kinda guy with the Oneplus. I've owned the op3T, op5T, and now the OP9 Pro. I like that they are "root friendly" generally speaking, and have a semi-vanilla android OS. What I dislike about the phone is the curved screen. Don't really care for it. Also the glass back is no-bueno because my current one has cracked multiple times on me despite being in a case and still functional.
Anyway, I'd like to hear some updated opinions about any of these phones or similar phones that you recommend.
For me, I am mostly interested in performance and battery life that can get me through the day or so. Having a nice camera is a perk, but I think most camera's these days are decent at the very least.
Also kind of a side topic, has anyone had any experience with a carbon fiber phone case? I was thinking of using one for my oneplus or future phone to prevent the back from breaking if it's glass. Carbon fiber is supposed to be really strong and light weight; but I'm not sure if it hinders the phone signal/antenna.

The Samsung Note 10+ (N975U1) has a smaller battery, is 30gm lighter, has better form factor & bezel to display ratio and gets better SOT (11-13 hrs) than the S23U*. In actual use it's only slightly slower except for intensive gaming. It runs cool and supports up to 1tb of expandable storage. The 60hz display is still one of the best in terms of resolution, color accuracy/calibration.
It's cams are more than adequate. Solid build quality and long lived. I have two and nothing Samsung has released since has matched it in overall functionality and usability which why I still run them. They are still a joy to use.
New ones are loaded with Android 10 are still available.
*all Samsung's should be optimized otherwise battery life will suffer.

blackhawk said:
The Samsung Note 10+ (N975U1) has a smaller battery, is 30gm lighter, has better form factor & bezel to display ratio and gets better SOT (11-13 hrs) than the S23U*. In actual use it's only slightly slower except for intensive gaming. It runs cool and supports up to 1tb of expandable storage. The 60hz display is still one of the best in terms of resolution, color accuracy/calibration.
It's cams are more than adequate. Solid build quality and long lived. I have two and nothing Samsung has released since has matched it in overall functionality and usability which why I still run them. They are still a joy to use.
New ones are loaded with Android 10 are still available.
*all Samsung's should be optimized otherwise battery life will suffer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input. The one concern I have with that model is that I believe the form factor is considered a phablet if I'm not mistaken. I personally like the smaller phones (thinner in terms of width).
Another phone I haven't heard too much about is the iqoo 11. I think it's comparable to the Oneplus 11 in terms of price and specs. Does anyone have any input on that one?