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Bluetooth GPS - Very Poor Performance!?

Is it just me/my hardware or is GPS over Bluetooth absolutely rubbish!?
I tried a Holux GR-230 unit first but had the usual problems in getting it connected. When I finally did, I was apalled by it's performance, usually failing to get a gps lock at all.
So I ditched it in favour of a Rikaline GPS-6031-X7. It picked up far mor signals and usually obtained a lock almost instantly. However, it's accuracy is very disappointing. Positional accuracy - it's usually ok on a motorway or dual carriageway but at slower speeds, it jumps all over the place, forwards, backwards, in the middle of fields hundreds of yards away - and that's the worst time for it to happen 'cos it's when you slow down for a junction that you actually need it. The second issue is directional accuracy - it often shows me driving sideways as it's so sloooooow to update/recalc the direction.
If this was my first experience of gps, I might be able to forgive it without a benchmark to judge it against. But I've used Navman with an iPaq, a LAM1 unit with my Nokia 9210 and a (cheap) CF device with my Dell Axim and they all performed far, far better! I know that TomTom Navigator 2 isn't the problem as it performed flawlessly on my Axim (PXA255).
So what's going wrong? Is it the bluetooth devices, or the bluetooth technology, or the XDA II? Will O2's bluetooth update improve matters?
I can no longer rely on this and I'm going to have to start taking map backups - something I've never had to do before and really defeats the object.
Any thoughts, experiences, comments, answers?????
Ged.

I think your problem could be the gps receiver.
I am using the Navman 4400 with my XDAII. It took some time and a couple of patches (from this site, thanks guys) to get it to bond via bluetooth, but now it's setup, it works great. It seems to be very accurate and tells me to exit roundabouts just at the correct time.
It's a bit slow to get the initial fix when first switched on (about 2 minutes) but once connected I have no problems.
Is the gps receiver positioned by a heated screen? If so, this will block the signal and produce the problems you describe.

Have you changed your car? Some newer cars have reflective windshields that can cause problems.
Cheers

Thanks guys. I know of both of the issues you describe but I drive a 3 year old clio 172 - no heated/reflective screen. The receiver usually sits on the dash and receives a very strong signal from upwards of 6 sats.
I've now emailed Rikaline too so we'll see what they come up with (if anything).

I am using the Holux GR-230 and it works flawlessly with towas latest patch 1.0.1.2, a very accurate gps based on my own observations with tomtom2.

Hi guys
I have recently received my new XDA II from Orange (know as SPV M1000)
I am using it with the Fortuna Clip On GPS, Tom Tom Navigator and a Jabra 250 headset.
So far I have had no problems with the GPS, it works every time. On a rare ocasion I have to reset the phone to get the head set to work but this is very rare.
Not sure if orange have modified the software but it all seems to work.

I'm beginning to think that it's the XDA that's at fault. I know TTN2 is ok, you guys aren't having any probs with bluetooth gps devices in general, and I'd have to be extremely unlucky to have TWO faulty gps receivers from different manufacturers!
Persuading O2 that it's faulty is another matter though.

i work in the in car navi business and a 3 year old cleo does have a metalic winscreen apart from the hatched area around the rear view mirror (for use with toll tags and other antennas).You will nead a re-radateing antenna mounted externally to get propper reception as the cleo also has a faradays cage effect making radio reception within the cab area very difficult.(they are a ***** to work on)

pinkslayer, shove it in somebody elses car, or slap it on the roof of yours and see how it go's in that location.

Should know my car a bit better really!
I had tried mounting the Holux in front of the rear view mirror but this didn't help so I didn't bother trying the Rikaline. And my wife has a clio too so no point trying it in hers.
So even though I'm locking on to 5-6 sats, it's still not sufficient!? Or is the metallic screen just causing additional latency?

Its not the number of sats, its the strength of the signal received, I have seen 8 sats showing but tomtom wont attempt a route until the signals are strong enough for a lock,

Rikaline GPS-6031-X7
hi all
i use a Rikaline -x7 with TomTom Navigator 2 on my xda ll with the bluetooth pach from
http://bluetooth.i-networx.de/index_e.html
and the update is slow when taking corners (ie the map is slow to turn to the heads up position) or if you come of a motorway/ dual carriageway thats not on the calulated route it will take some time to acknowledge this
but i do not have the problem of it at slower speeds it jumps all over the place
As for accuracy my old tomtom wired gps was better
but the Rikaline-x7 is usable

Thanks peops. I've now tried mounting it on the rear parcel shelf and also stuck it to the shaded area above the rvm but to no avail (even when it was back on the dash this morning, it took 11 minutes to get a fix and another 5 before it could calc direction - cloudy day!). As soon as it's dry enough, I'll mount it outside the car and see how it is.
I don't really want to do down the re-radateing antenna route as the whole point of having portable equipment is that you can use it anywhere and in any vehicle.

Im using the Rikaline GPS 6031-X7 and Im really happy with, no problems at all in fact I think its brilliant............

I'm using the fortuna clipon in a landy with heated windscreen. It doesn't seem to affect the signal (with or without the screen on) and I have to say i was expecting problems with it. It has been the only thing about the whole BT GPS/XDAII setup that I haven't had problems with..
Technology eh!

[Q] Does GPS work on your tablet ?

I down loaded GPS eseential and noticed that it could locate 0 satellites. I then noticed on the notification bar an indicator that GPS is being searched.
Maps locates my position but I suspect it is using triangulation (though not sure here); it claims my location is accurate within 70 meters which is a bit coarse for GPS. Not sure if this is specific to me or specific to the transformer.

The GPS on my unit has been flawless, even picking me up inside buildings with no issues.

How many satellites can GPS essential fine ? On mine it is 0.
03stage2 said:
The GPS on my unit has been flawless, even picking me up inside buildings with no issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Just tested mine and it saw and locked onto 8 sattelites in 8 seconds in GPS Test.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App

Hum. Uh oh do i have a bad unit ?
Btw I'm still running .6 since the .9 update is not yet available OTA. Did you update your firmware ?
This link suggests the transformer doesn't have gps:
http://bestandroidappsfree.com/2011/04/asus-transform-issue-gps/

Do you have the GPS turned on in settings/location and security/mylocation? Try a more standard app such as google maps.

I have GPS turned on in settings; and google maps also has the indicator in notification widow that it is searching for gps; which never seems successful. no clue how to have google maps indicate number of sat. For kicks I turned off find location via wireless and it does indeed loose my location; so it was using wireless triangulation. full reboot does not help.
--
Hum. Going outside seemed to fix the issue. The building I'm in has thin walls but maybe there is shielding or antenna issues. On the bright side wireless worked in the elevator.
On the mixed side the display is barely readable outside but functional for maps.
Back inside and GPS no longer functions. Ho hum.
brachiopod said:
Do you have the GPS turned on in settings/location and security/mylocation? Try a more standard app such as google maps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Sometimes on the newer construction, they use a foil backed foam insulation that really interferes with radio. Hard to say, but it might just be that particular location.

jake21 said:
Hum. Uh oh do i have a bad unit ?
Btw I'm still running .6 since the .9 update is not yet available OTA. Did you update your firmware ?
This link suggests the transformer doesn't have gps:
http://bestandroidappsfree.com/2011/04/asus-transform-issue-gps/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are people claiming that the TF does not have a GPS, they are wrong and misinformed. There was a review by Anandtech (http://www.anandtech.com/show/4277/asus-eee-pad-transformer-review) in which the reviewer stated there was no GPS. Later in his comments the reviewer noted his mistake and updated the article. All the blogs went nuts on it and most blogs did not change their info. Thus there is a lot of misinformation still floating around.

[Q] GPS issues is this normal?

I took a trip with the tf101 this weekend. Tethered to my phone got consistent wifi for email, but the only problem we noticed was that GPS was very difficult to get correct. I was in southern Illinois and it thought I was in map maps. So I rebooted and then I said I was in England. It seems to take a long time to sync to a GPS location regardless if it is correct or not. I downloaded an app called GPS status. On my atrix phone it syncs almost immediately. On the tf101, it will not sync even if I an outside with a clear sky. It takes a couple minutes if it does sync.odds this normal? My guess is that it has a marginal GPS antenna our mine is defective. Thoughts?
Keith

I've had exceptional reception on the GPS. Frankly, it the best GPS I've ever used. You may have a lemon or something screwed up.
Get "GPS Status" from the market. In addition to having a really cool display, it has the ablity to reset your AGPS data.

keithspg said:
I took a trip with the tf101 this weekend. Tethered to my phone got consistent wifi for email, but the only problem we noticed was that GPS was very difficult to get correct. I was in southern Illinois and it thought I was in map maps. So I rebooted and then I said I was in England. It seems to take a long time to sync to a GPS location regardless if it is correct or not. I downloaded an app called GPS status. On my atrix phone it syncs almost immediately. On the tf101, it will not sync even if I an outside with a clear sky. It takes a couple minutes if it does sync.odds this normal? My guess is that it has a marginal GPS antenna our mine is defective. Thoughts?
Keith
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your phone can use the cellular network to help fix it position. 3g tablets can do the same.
Your Wifi TF has no such aid and needs several minutes of clear sky to get the ephemeris. Once it has the ephemeris it will be quicker to get lock provide it is outside and it has not been more than a few days since the GPS last saw the sky and you have not moved too far since the GPS was last active.
Sent from my Transformer TF101

Go into settings then Location and security then under My Locations, uncheck Use wireless networks. If you have that checked, it will use the known location of the router ( in this case your phone) that is stored in an online database. In a fixed location ( ie home or office) this is usually correct. In a mobile location, this is almost always wrong as it is not a regularly updated parameter. With this unchecked, the location of the TF is determined by the TF GPS and not the stored location of the router( tethered phone) . For more information, see http://www.skyhookwireless.com/

dburckh said:
Get "GPS Status" from the market. In addition to having a really cool display, it has the ablity to reset your AGPS data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This; launch GPS Status, go to settings and tap on Update AGPS. I always do this before I launch any navigation app on TF.

GwynBleidd said:
This; launch GPS Status, go to settings and tap on Update AGPS. I always do this before I launch any navigation app on TF.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There doesn't seem to be a "settings>update AGPS" setting.
I couldn't find anything like that.

Thanks for the posts. I will try these this evening. One thing I did note was that my Atrix has higher signal levels when running GPS Status than the TF101 as well as syncing faster. It also syncs much faster. I will attempt another test this evening with wifi turned off on both devices. I will put the phone in Airplane mode or pull the SIM card and reboot it to make it 'even'.
KeithG

keithspg said:
Thanks for the posts. I will try these this evening. One thing I did note was that my Atrix has higher signal levels when running GPS Status than the TF101 as well as syncing faster. It also syncs much faster. I will attempt another test this evening with wifi turned off on both devices. I will put the phone in Airplane mode or pull the SIM card and reboot it to make it 'even'.
KeithG
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you dont need to turn wifi off just uncheck use router to set location

Well, it looks like it is pretty poor, at least as compared to my atrix. The atrix is sitting right next to me and is showing 7 of 7 sat / fix. It will get a fix in less than 30 seconds. On the tf,it is just spinning. I really don't like this. It should be decent. It was tough to try to use it to navigate because it kept losing sync. I posted a message to Asus as well. It may be sent back for repair. I have a B60 version, a I hope I don't lose the ability to root it.
Keith

Another response... If I load GPS Test, it shows the satellite number and each S/N ratio. On the Atrix sitting right next to it, there is a 20-40% increase in S/N on the Atrix compared to the TF. On the TF, they are all 15-25 and on the Atrix the same satellites are 22-40 (data from inside a building). If I were to guess, this appears to be an antenna problem more than anything software related. From the TF teardown pictures, the GPS antenna looks to be a very simple part and I wonder if it is optimized.
Older phones also had problems with GPS antennas (Nokia for example) so much so that there are hacks to increase its sensitivity by soldering a wire to it. I am wondering if we could appropriate an antenna for a phone and solder it in instead of the one already in the TF...
Still waiting for ASUS to respond to my query.
Keith

still nothing back from ASUS. This is a pic of the 2 devices side by side. I do not know if I am just noticing it now or not, but it is not very 'solid' of a lock ever with GPS. I recently turned off WiFi location, so it is now completely dependent on GPS and seldom knows where it is. Am I the only one with a weak GPS performance? Notice that my phone shows 0ft and the TF shows 45ft precision on location.
This is with the latest OTA update of 8.6.5.9.
Keith

keithspg said:
still nothing back from ASUS. This is a pic of the 2 devices side by side. I do not know if I am just noticing it now or not, but it is not very 'solid' of a lock ever with GPS. I recently turned off WiFi location, so it is now completely dependent on GPS and seldom knows where it is. Am I the only one with a weak GPS performance? Notice that my phone shows 0ft and the TF shows 45ft precision on location.
This is with the latest OTA update of 8.6.5.9.
Keith
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I seem to have the same GPS issues as you do. The GPS reception is so weak that it is pretty much impossible to use Google Maps for navigation. I've tried it with and without the wireless option and it has made no difference. It takes about 15 minutes to get a lock with a view of the open sky, then 2 minutes later it is again searching for GPS. Yet GPS Status sees all the satellites quite quickly. When I did travel with it, it usually showed (on Google Maps) a GPS location hundreds of kilometers from where I was located in an area I had never been to. I had to give up trying to use it and use my phone instead.
I'll add to the list of problems when I once again send my tablet in on RMA (after a month without it, Asus repair broke it much worse than it was before I sent it).

Note that the percision number is a calculation done by an algorithm. Different algorithms result in different results but they are somewhat subjective. I do not believe any commercial gps will yield 0 error so it sounds like your phone is a little optomistic.

keithspg said:
still nothing back from ASUS. This is a pic of the 2 devices side by side. I do not know if I am just noticing it now or not, but it is not very 'solid' of a lock ever with GPS. I recently turned off WiFi location, so it is now completely dependent on GPS and seldom knows where it is. Am I the only one with a weak GPS performance? Notice that my phone shows 0ft and the TF shows 45ft precision on location.
This is with the latest OTA update of 8.6.5.9.
Keith
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try:
* Taking the third-party case off. No idea what the construction is, but it's conceivable it could contain materials that are shielding the tablet
* Performing the test outdoors with a clear view of the sky (as much of it as possible), and the devices a couple of feet apart, not sitting on top of each other
* Giving the tablet several minutes to download ephemeris data from the satellites before performing the test. Phones can pick up info from their cell towers that gives them a huge head start in determining a fix. Your tablet can't.
* Reenable the network detection. That's the next best thing to what your phone has, and it's not likely that you're going to see a single router with the same details (it looks at more than just the network SSID) in multiple locations. Unless you've intentionally set your routers that way, anyway.
AGPS is a red herring. There's no such thing as AGPS in the Transformer, and so there's nothing to "clear". The A stands for Assisted, and that's Assisted by the cell connectivity in a phone or connected tablet. The Transformer -- unless you have the 3G version -- doesn't have cell connectivity, so it doesn't (and can't) have AGPS either.

I get the same results with our without the case. It is leather over cardboard.
outdoors I get better numbers on both devices, but the TF is always lower in value than the atrix.
I have the wifi location turned off on both devices. (trying to make it a fair comparison.) Does the phone still use the cell tower data to get location even if I have "Use wireless data" turned off on the"location" setting on the phone.
As it is, my TF is useless for maps or navigation. I am curious as to what Asus will say. I have a feeling that the antenna is just not very good. I don't know if it is just mine our if it is on all of them.
Keith

keithspg said:
Does the phone still use the cell tower data to get location even if I have "Use wireless data" turned off on the"location" setting on the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would imagine so, yes. Wireless data isn't the same thing as AGPS data.
As it is, my TF is useless for maps or navigation. I am curious as to what Asus will say. I have a feeling that the antenna is just not very good. I don't know if it is just mine our if it is on all of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine is accurate enough to correctly show which corner of my two-bedroom house I'm standing in.

Just to give a reference, I'm 12 feet from the nearest windows and my Transformer locked on to 6/8 satelites in about 2 seconds. My Vibrant takes about 2-10 minutes to do the same with a clear line of sight. B50.

dburckh said:
Just to give a reference, I'm 12 feet from the nearest windows and my Transformer locked on to 6/8 satelites in about 2 seconds. My Vibrant takes about 2-10 minutes to do the same with a clear line of sight. B50.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If yours is more typical, it may be that I have a defective one. From the replies, it also seems that I an not alone. Mine is a B60 serial number if that is relevant.
What serial number is yours?
I really do like this tablet, but would like a functional GPS.
Keith

I took the plunge and popped it open. The WiFi and GPS share the same ultra simple antenna. I did a bit of google-ing on GPS antennas and it may be a decent idea to buy a GPS antenna, but I will try making a more appropriate antenna with a piece of wire, first.
Keith

GPS Stopped working

Friend of mine recently told me her GPS on her verizon S3 stopped working. she brought it by, i flashed the newest build of cleanrom on it today and sure enough the GPS still doesnt work. everything needed is turned on but it doesnt get a lock. i checked it with the GPS Status app and it shows like 0/20 satellites and doesnt lock to any. only way i was able to actually get somewhat of a lock on google maps was to hook it up to WiFi and let it gather from that.
any suggestions?

Somewhat common problem. I haven't found a fix as of yet. There is a gps fix somewhere in these forums though that sort of helps. my phone had the same problem. Going back to stock or to any custom rom, nothing worked, the gps was just dead. After flashing one of the fixes I finally managed to get it to get locks, but it needs like 7-8 satellites to get a fix, is highly inaccurate, and loses gps lock a few times on every trip.
Here's the gps fix page
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1880411
I use Galaxy s3 test 3 alt, it's the only one that gets any lock for me. The first time and other intermittent times can take up to 10 minutes or more though, and rebooting the phone or trying again another day does sometimes help.
I know it is definitely the phone, as my pantech marauder which has the same SoC which should be very similar for gps location, finds and locks on to 6-8 towers in like 10 seconds or less all the time, even indoors, and gets location accurate to less than 100ft with 4 satellites while the gs3 needs 7-8 satellites to get a lock to 300-600ft

If none of the software fixes work. And the stock unrooted software does not receive GPS lock.
I would highly recommend replacing the GPS antenna just in case.
I'm 90% sure the headphone jack. External speaker. WiFi antenna and GPS antenna are all in one unit.
This piece is sold for cheap on Amazon. Or eBay or whatever.
Replacing is simply a removing a couple screws and popping the old one out.
Here is a link to eBay
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=160890063224
Possibly you could find one cheaper.
Hopefully this is it for you.
Let me know how it goes.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

I too have this problem: the GPS no longer gets a fix w/o a data connection
the phone recently did an update to jb 411 and now no gps fix w/o data.
I do NOT believe its the antenna.
does anyone else with the os in sight have any info?

palm2droid said:
I too have this problem: the GPS no longer gets a fix w/o a data connection
the phone recently did an update to jb 411 and now no gps fix w/o data.
I do NOT believe its the antenna.
does anyone else with the os in sight have any info?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too have the same problems on this rom

joying gps has hard time to lock on

After getting a new antenna from joying I was still seeing only mid 30snr on 8 or so satellites. It constantly lost gps. All of my 4.4.4 units went through the dash and still had a good signal. 5.1.1 has known gps problems that will never be fixed as google moved on to android 6-7.
ACCURACY_THRES=0 in gps.conf fixed it more or less. The default value is about 40-42, but I never get that good of signal. Now It actually knows where I am going.

did you car already have GPS? my Jeep did, I bought an adapter that allows me to re-use the existing Jeep GPS with the Joying:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OOD2TGW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

joying 1.90mcu fixed the problem