Anyone was able to measure PWM values? Is it as bad as 6 Pro?
Seems like now it have 240 hz
Google Pixel 7 Pro Display test - DXOMARK
We put the Google Pixel 7 Pro through our rigorous DXOMARK Display test suite to measure its performance across six criteria. In this test summary, we will break down how it fared in a variety of tests and several common use cases. Overview Key display specifications: 6.7 inches OLED (~89.6%...
www.dxomark.com
This is crushing news. I'm one of those people that are susceptible to headaches from low Hz flicker. I was going to go for the P7 pro but this is a non starter for me if it's true. Anyone else that got the phone and has pwm headaches or eye strain please comment
(maybe this is a noob question)
Can this be somehow solved by a custom kernel that would make the phone use DC dimming instead of PWM?
In my experience (with previous phones) DC dimming makes no difference. It took some time for me to understand what flicker value would impact me. It seems that anything under 350 or so give me headaches. From what I understand this varies from person to person with about 5% of people being affected negatively. I can't actually see the flicker but after about 5 minutes of using a screen that las a low rate, I develop a headache. I can't read in cars either. It offsets the same feeling in me.
How come DC dimming makes no difference, when DC dimming doesn't use PWM (flicker)?
JULIUS_PONOZKA said:
How come DC dimming makes no difference, when DC dimming doesn't use PWM (flicker)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure about the science behind it. I'm just giving my personal experience. I tried to upgrade my op 8 pro to a op 9 pro last year. As it turns out the op9 pro also has a low flicker rate. It also had the ability to enable DC dimming. It didn't fix my problem. I sent it back.
Related
Hi could anyone do a pwm free app or kernel mod for the pixel 3a.
The pwm frequency is very annoying. Of anyone could do this eliminating pwm would be awesome
Can you explain what the purpose of such kernel mod is? Thanks.
I'd be interested too. I don't own a Pixel 3a but I probably would if it didn't have PWM.
Apparently some newer phones from China (XIaomi, OnePlus Beta ROMs) have a new "DC Dimming" feature that supposedly just a software update. If anyone can find me the kernel source for such ROM with that feature I might take a look and see what can be done.
https://www.xda-developers.com/oneplus-dc-dimming-optional-feature-future-update/
JoeSchmoe007 said:
Can you explain what the purpose of such kernel mod is? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PWM = Pulse With Modulation flicker of the display, for some people with damaged eyes (including myself) it causes severe headaches and other neurological issues.
There's some more information here, but I take issue with the "affected" frequencies listed in the first paragraph.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html
Sadly the Pixel 3a is confirmed to use PWM in this review.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Google-Pixel-3a-XL-Smartphone-Review.422368.0.html
lillo9546 said:
Hi could anyone do a pwm free app or kernel mod for the pixel 3a.
The pwm frequency is very annoying. Of anyone could do this eliminating pwm would be awesome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, gift me something ? because i know how much headache you are facing with pwm thing.
So here is the app( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.js.oledsaver ) to avoid pwm & use the phone with low brightness.
App name is OLED SAVER
It's simple. You install it & follow the instructions & use it. Enjoy! ?
screen flickering because of PWM at a speed of 242.7 Hz
lillo9546 said:
The pwm frequency is very annoying.
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Click to collapse
Yes, the screen flickering because of PWM at a speed of 242.7 Hz can be seen througout the whole video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_yDs3SGiXg
"PWM = Pulse With Modulation flicker of the display, for some people it causes severe headaches and other neurological issues." - Some newer phones from China (XIaomi, OnePlus Beta ROMs) have a new "DC Dimming" feature that can be used to dimm the OLEDisplay.
Try using a brightness adjustment app that applies a transparent mask over the screen. It's a dirty work around but it lets you leave the brightness at 100% where there is no PWM enabled.
This is my first OLED screen but I haven't had issues with its 242Hz frequency PWM personally. I did notice that dark mode AKA pure black will make the OLED pixels react slower, leaving trails and other artifacts which can make it harder on the eyes than a grey or white background when scrolling.
Night mode at low brightness seems to help in dark situations as well.
Flickee-free kernel for Pixel 4a?
jtl999 said:
kernel source for such ROM with that feature I might take a look and see what can be done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since the Pixel 4a has a slow PWM flickering, too. What can we learn from this Samsung kernel mod? https://forum.xda-developers.com/s7-edge/development/amoled-pwm-s7-edge-t3517739/
I want to download the PWNfree app
Download pwm free
Hi,
I am interested in getting the Pixel 3a, however I see people complain about the outdoor viewing experience being sub-par compared to any other phones on the market.
My previous phone also featured an AMOLED with a screen brightness topping ~297 to 300 nits based on the review. As is, it was hard to read the screen outside on a sunny day.
However, what the phone was able to do, is play with the contrast (based on the brightness setting level and ambient light sensor), to make the screen more visible (at the cost of washed out colors). Something that helped a lot, and actually helps a lot (and help save battery if you reduce the brightness, if you are ok with the contrast adjustment)
I was wondering if Pixel 3a has this feature?
The ExperiementalX kernel has a High Brightness mode. It really does work and it is probably about 20% brighter than just turning the phone to 100% brightness.
And, EX Kernel has color profile adjustments! The stock color profile on my P3A was way too yellow and warm for me. I almost returned it. But now with EX I can have an accurate color profile and extra brightness as mentioned above.
I've had a different experience. I do have ElementalX installed (bought the ELX Manager years ago and highly recommend it); however, haven't felt the need to tweak the brightness--color, yes.. Unless it's on 100%, it is nearly impossible to see in the sun (I live in south Florida). Once turned too 100%, it's quite bright--enough that I can see everything even wearing sunglasses. At 100%, my former N5X was impossible to see outside even though half way across the brightness slide was much brighter than same on 3a. Son went from a N6P and expressed the same--also lives in Florida.
I am interested in getting either this phone or the regular one plus 7, but I have horrible time using a oled screen due to pwm. I suffer from severe headaches and eye strain.
So Im wondering if there is anyone else out there that suffers like I do, is using this phone and does dc dimming actually help?
Please if you dont know what pwm is or if it's not a problem for you Dont Comment.
I appreciate any help you can give.
Thank you!
I wonder if the 90Hz refresh would help....
I don't have that issue while using dc dimming but if i turn it off, after about 5 min i do notice my eyes hurting and stuff. DC dimming only works when the brightness is very low (i believe)
Hi, I know the thread is old but I wanted to share my views about this topic.
I am one of the few people who are sensitive to PWM flicker used in OLEDs. Before I switched to OP7 Pro, I had OP3. OP3 display destroyed my eyes and i came to know that PWM was the cause of my eye discomfort and headaches.
I switched to OP7 Pro as it had DC dimming which reduces the discomfort to PWM sensitive users. And to a huge extent this has helped me with the discomfort. But I still get headaches after prolonged viewing of the screen so I take frequent breaks and avoid extensive reading on the phone.
I have done some research about OP7 Pro display and turns out that PWM frequency is around 350hz (the more the better) when the screen is kept at 90Hz refresh rate and around 150hz PWM frequency at 60 Hz refresh rate. SO it is advised to keep display at 90Hz. All other phones have roughly 250Hz PWM frequency. Also, our phone’s display uses PWM when brightness drops below 50% which is really good as some other OEMS use PWM brightness control below 95% display brightness. So I keep the DC dimming on and use the phone at low brightness. I also use an app called OLED saver though I dont know whether it is redundant as it does same thing as DC dimming.
Recently I started noticing something after upgrading to OOS Android 10. I noticed that DC dimming implementation is different on OOS android 10 than on OOS android 9. I started getting headaches and eye discomfort on OOS android 10. I noticed that the PWM flicker is much more evident on OOS 10 .I used camera pro mode on another phone and reduced the shutter speed to 1/1000th and viewed OP7P screen through it. The flicker was evident. So I reverted back to OOS 9 and the discomfort was greatly reduced. I think I will stay on OOS 9 for the future
There is one thing I am very clear about is that all the OLED screen phones nowadays use PWM brightness control and even if DC Dimming is implemented the OLED screen will still flicker slightly. And if anyone is very sensitive to PWM then buy LCD screen phones. It’s the only option
Same Problem
daninantro said:
Hi, I know the thread is old but I wanted to share my views about this topic.
I am one of the few people who are sensitive to PWM flicker used in OLEDs. Before I switched to OP7 Pro, I had OP3. OP3 display destroyed my eyes and i came to know that PWM was the cause of my eye discomfort and headaches.
I switched to OP7 Pro as it had DC dimming which reduces the discomfort to PWM sensitive users. And to a huge extent this has helped me with the discomfort. But I still get headaches after prolonged viewing of the screen so I take frequent breaks and avoid extensive reading on the phone.
I have done some research about OP7 Pro display and turns out that PWM frequency is around 350hz (the more the better) when the screen is kept at 90Hz refresh rate and around 150hz PWM frequency at 60 Hz refresh rate. SO it is advised to keep display at 90Hz. All other phones have roughly 250Hz PWM frequency. Also, our phone’s display uses PWM when brightness drops below 50% which is really good as some other OEMS use PWM brightness control below 95% display brightness. So I keep the DC dimming on and use the phone at low brightness. I also use an app called OLED saver though I dont know whether it is redundant as it does same thing as DC dimming.
Recently I started noticing something after upgrading to OOS Android 10. I noticed that DC dimming implementation is different on OOS android 10 than on OOS android 9. I started getting headaches and eye discomfort on OOS android 10. I noticed that the PWM flicker is much more evident on OOS 10 .I used camera pro mode on another phone and reduced the shutter speed to 1/1000th and viewed OP7P screen through it. The flicker was evident. So I reverted back to OOS 9 and the discomfort was greatly reduced. I think I will stay on OOS 9 for the future
There is one thing I am very clear about is that all the OLED screen phones nowadays use PWM brightness control and even if DC Dimming is implemented the OLED screen will still flicker slightly. And if anyone is very sensitive to PWM then buy LCD screen phones. It’s the only option
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I am facing the same problem I can't look at the phone more than 10 minutes
and installed "OLED saver" and nothing happened the same problem
I was wondering is this a problem my eyes with all AMOLED displays or it's just Oneplus only ?
"Pixel 4a Horrible PWM OLED flicker test feat. Oneplus 7 pro" https://youtu.be/s7GHb_traI4
"Pixel 4a PWM causes eye strain" (display flickering on low backlight level) - "This sucks because I want to love this phone."
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pixel4a/comments/idpv79/pixel_4a_eye_strain/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pixel4a/comments/idpv79/comment/g2ar513
4a PWM flickering is slow: "the display flickers in a frequency range between 122.5 and 255.1 Hz depending on the brightness level, which could cause difficulties for users with sensitive eyes." https://www.notebookcheck.net/Googl...w-It-s-not-about-the-megapixels.494895.0.html
Pixel 3 and 2: 245 Hz PWM flickering
Pixel 3a: "frequency of the flickering is quite low at between 88.65 and 271.7 Hz. Subjectively, we did not notice any bothersome flickering, but PWM can be an issue for sensitive users, causing headaches or dizziness at low frequencies." https://www.notebookcheck.net/A-Nexus-style-Pixel-smartphone-Google-Pixel-3a-Review.427169.0.html
Pixel 4: "increased PWM frequency range typical for 90 Hz panels regardless of display brightness. That said, PWM frequencies fluctuated significantly between 176.1 and 367.6 Hz and are thus low enough to potentially cause eye strain and headaches in sensitive users." https://www.notebookcheck.net/Googl...ger-at-the-smartphone-forefront.444731.0.html
........
SGH-i200 said:
"Pixel 4a PWM causes eye strain" (display flickering on low backlight level) - "This sucks because I want to love this phone."
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pixel4a/comments/idpv79/pixel_4a_eye_strain/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pixel4a/comments/idpv79/comment/g2ar513
Pixel 3 and 2: 245 Hz PWM flickering
Pixel 3a: "frequency of the flickering is quite low at between 88.65 and 271.7 Hz. Subjectively, we did not notice any bothersome flickering, but PWM can be an issue for sensitive users, causing headaches or dizziness at low frequencies." https://www.notebookcheck.net/A-Nexus-style-Pixel-smartphone-Google-Pixel-3a-Review.427169.0.html
Pixel 4: "increased PWM frequency range typical for 90 Hz panels regardless of display brightness. That said, PWM frequencies fluctuated significantly between 176.1 and 367.6 Hz and are thus low enough to potentially cause eye strain and headaches in sensitive users." https://www.notebookcheck.net/Googl...ger-at-the-smartphone-forefront.444731.0.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do we know the cutoff for PWM on the 4a? I know some devices only utilize PWM below a specific brightness level.
Low_Key_Slaps said:
Do we know the cutoff for PWM on the 4a? I know some devices only utilize PWM below a specific brightness level.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All OLEDisplays I know, use PWM when dimmed below 100 %. PWM is used from 99,9% on ("≤ 99 % brightness setting") and the frequency slows down proportional to the dimming of the display.
Why PWM is used? DC dimming distorts the color reproduction of OLEDisplays! "Analysis: DC Dimming vs. PWM – Can you dim AMOLED displays without the flickering?" https://www.notebookcheck.net/Analy...displays-without-the-flickering.423121.0.html
The website www.notebookcheck.net will upload a review of the Pixel 4a in the comming weeks and will tell us the PWM values they messured.
SGH-i200 said:
All OLEDisplays I know, use PWM when dimmed below 100 %. PWM is used from 99,9% on and the frequency slows down proportional to the dimming of the display.
The website www.notebookcheck.net will upload a review of the Pixel 4a in the comming weeks and will tell us the PWM values they messured.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sick thanks!
SGH-i200 said:
All OLEDisplays I know, use PWM when dimmed below 100 %. PWM is used from 99,9% on ("≤ 99 % brightness setting") and the frequency slows down proportional to the dimming of the display.
Why PWM is used? DC dimming distorts the color reproduction of OLEDisplays! "Analysis: DC Dimming vs. PWM – Can you dim AMOLED displays without the flickering?" https://www.notebookcheck.net/Analy...displays-without-the-flickering.423121.0.html
The website www.notebookcheck.net will upload a review of the Pixel 4a in the comming weeks and will tell us the PWM values they messured.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good info, but dc dimming on amoled is actually available. My oneplus 7 pro (and most recent oneplus devices) has an option for dc dimming which doesn't screw with colors much at all. My eyes can't tell the difference between pwm dimming and dc dimming, but plenty of folks on the forums swear by it.
xxBrun0xx said:
DC dimming on amoled is actually available. My oneplus 7 pro (and most recent oneplus devices) has an option for dc dimming which doesn't screw with colors much at all. My eyes can't tell the difference between pwm dimming and dc dimming
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your device is still flickering with DC dimming on: https://youtu.be/qKB_vATi-UA
Low_Key_Slaps said:
Do we know the cutoff for PWM on the 4a? I know some devices only utilize PWM below a specific brightness level.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 4a uses PWM for any brightness setting below 100%.
"Google Pixel 4a smartphone in review: It's not about the megapixels" https://www.notebookcheck.net/Googl...w-It-s-not-about-the-megapixels.494895.0.html
"the display flickers in a frequency range between 122.5 and 255.1 Hz depending on the brightness level, which could cause difficulties for users with sensitive eyes."
I added this video to the OP: "Pixel 4a Horrible PWM OLED flicker test feat. Oneplus 7 pro" https://youtu.be/s7GHb_traI4
I used to use Galaxy Max Hz (https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...ods-qs-tiles-tasker-support-and-more.4220481//) on my rooted S21 Ultra, which is a great app that allows the screen at standstill to be reduced to 10hz before immediately ramping back up to 120hz (or any other step up you liked - I set mine to 90hz as the difference wasn't overly noticeable) if you touched the screen resulting in scrolling or movement. Is there an equivalent on the Pixel, do you know? I'm very happy with the battery life, but reckon something like this would improve it further.
Beefheart said:
I used to use Galaxy Max Hz (https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...ods-qs-tiles-tasker-support-and-more.4220481//) on my rooted S21 Ultra, which is a great app that allows the screen at standstill to be reduced to 10hz before immediately ramping back up to 120hz (or any other step up you liked - I set mine to 90hz as the difference wasn't overly noticeable) if you touched the screen resulting in scrolling or movement. Is there an equivalent on the Pixel, do you know? I'm very happy with the battery life, but reckon something like this would improve it further.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm guessing, but I'm thinking the answer is no, the Pixel screen only varies between 60-120. I tried ADB commands to choose 96 as the high but it fails. I use that app on my S22 Ultra and works great. I haven't seen any negative battery effects of letting it do it's thing up to 120. (So far).
I believe the screen varies from 10Hz-120Hz but only hits 10Hz in certain situations (e.g. When content is static with good ambient lighting). The refresh rate in Developer Options uses SurfaceFlinger, but SurfaceFlinger doesn't read below 60Hz and you need to use the Display Controller or some other means (as done below) to read below that, is my understanding.
This is from the Pixel 6 Pro, but the concept should still be the same for the Pixel 7 Pro...
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498870947272556546
There is also this...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/rn5wrp
zoman7663 said:
I'm guessing, but I'm thinking the answer is no, the Pixel screen only varies between 60-120. I tried ADB commands to choose 96 as the high but it fails. I use that app on my S22 Ultra and works great. I haven't seen any negative battery effects of letting it do it's thing up to 120. (So far).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to the gsmarena:
For refresh rate, you get a single toggle in the settings menu called 'Smooth Display', which enables the 120Hz mode. The thing is, despite the official specsheet listing the display as being able to adjust refresh rate in the 10-120Hz range, Android only reports 120Hz and 60Hz modes, both in the Display.Mode class and while the phone is in use with the 'Show refresh rate' utility turned on in Developer options. So while it's somewhat adaptive and will switch from 120Hz down to 60Hz for static content or when you're not touching the display, other refresh rates don't appear to be used (or supported). That's quite perplexing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As they advertised variable refresh rate it should be possible. I'm not sure why it hasn't been implemented yet but hopefully they will do it.
That's a bit irritating, but less than it might have been given the battery life (for me at least) is more than good enough.
I just set adb force min, and max 24, and it's forced to full all the time. ZERO issues with batt life
I used to use the Samsung max hz app myself and found it great. Best I've done so far on the P7P is dev options and force max hz. Seems to be working for me so far